PING - Translators
Bryan Parker
charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
becoming a translator, what would it be? She's
graduating in March and definitely going to attend
www.obirin.ac.jp
--
Bryan
gaijenesis -
noun: the event that is a beginning; a first part or stage
of subsequent events of gaijinhood
Ryan Ginstrom
"Bryan Parker" <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e9r7ovs8slk6i5p7e...@4ax.com...
> If you had any professional advice to offer a
> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
> becoming a translator, what would it be? She's
> graduating in March and definitely going to attend
> www.obirin.ac.jp
(1) Get a skill
(2) Live in a country of your "B" language
(3) Become a good writer in your native language
(4) Subscribe to and lurk on the Honyaku mailing list, and perhaps TML
<http://www.freeml.com/info/t...@freeml.com>
(5) Don't worry too much about translating until (1), (2) and (3) are out of
the way.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Louise Bremner
> If you had any professional advice to offer a
> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
> becoming a translator, what would it be?
Bizarre ambition, but who am I to persuade her otherwise?
Um.... What field is she planning to translate in, or is she under the
impression that merely studying two languages at college would somehow
make her employable?
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Bryan Parker
>Bryan Parker <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> If you had any professional advice to offer a
>> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
>> becoming a translator, what would it be?
>
>Bizarre ambition, but who am I to persuade her otherwise?
>
>Um.... What field is she planning to translate in, or is she under the
>impression that merely studying two languages at college would somehow
>make her employable?
Translation is just an elective course at the Jr.
college that she'll be attending. We only talked
about this for a few minutes tonight. I'll see her
again in a couple of weeks and we'll have a lot
mor etime to chat. What field would you go into if
you could start over again now, knowing what you
already know?
Haluk
yazdi:e9r7ovs8slk6i5p7e...@4ax.com...
Computer skills, good typing skills + in depth software knowledge (all the
shortcut keys -OS, word processing application etc- and perhaps string
manipulation etc) would be essential.
Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators I know
consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my office an
average translator goes well beyond 6000 pages without overtime :)
If she is serious, perhaps she may even download and try one of TM tools out
there like Trados, Deja Vu, Wordfast etc.
Regards,
Haluk
yazdı:bm193e$gupro$1...@ID-201738.news.uni-berlin.de...
I meant 6000 words, not pages
Eric Takabayashi
> What field would you go into if
> you could start over again now, knowing what you
> already know?
Nursing.
Michael Cash
<puntspe...@yahoo.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going
with:
>dame_...@yahoo.com ( Louise Bremner) said:
>
>>Bryan Parker <puntspe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you had any professional advice to offer a
>>> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
>>> becoming a translator, what would it be?
>>
>>Bizarre ambition, but who am I to persuade her otherwise?
>>
>>Um.... What field is she planning to translate in, or is she under the
>>impression that merely studying two languages at college would somehow
>>make her employable?
>
>Translation is just an elective course at the Jr.
>college that she'll be attending. We only talked
>about this for a few minutes tonight. I'll see her
>again in a couple of weeks and we'll have a lot
>mor etime to chat. What field would you go into if
>you could start over again now, knowing what you
>already know?
"If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber."
Albert Einstein
or
I'm gonna get me religion, I'm gonna join the Baptist church
I wanna be a Baptist preacher, so's I don't have to work
Son House
"Preachin' Blues"
Maybe an evangelical plumber.
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
Wet nursing?
Eric Takabayashi
Probably elder care.
Ryan Ginstrom
> mor etime to chat. What field would you go into if
> you could start over again now, knowing what you
> already know?
Something you like, are interested in, and good at. Unless you decide to
become an expert in Buddhist scriptures, you can be pretty sure there will
be work for you in that field. What will be important then is, will you want
to do the work?
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Bryce
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:3F842BE4...@yahoo.co.jp...
Bryce
"Haluk" <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:bm195p$h61p8$1...@ID-201738.news.uni-berlin.de...
Fabian
> > Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators
I know
> > consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my
office an
> > average translator goes well beyond 6000 pages without overtime :)
Hmm, I remember when I worked at Cadburys, I was asked to translate a
20-page text-heavy powerpoint presentation from English to French. They
were really pissed off that I took two entire days to do it. I think
they wanted me to put it through babelfish or something, but I made a
sincere best effort instead, with the aid of a bit of software,
dictionaries, and memories of school french lessons.
Anyhow, how fast is that for someone who hadnt looked at a word of
French in the period 4 years before doing that translation?
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Louise Bremner
> >> If you had any professional advice to offer a
> >> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
> >> becoming a translator, what would it be?
> >
> >Bizarre ambition, but who am I to persuade her otherwise?
> >
> >Um.... What field is she planning to translate in, or is she under the
> >impression that merely studying two languages at college would somehow
> >make her employable?
>
> Translation is just an elective course at the Jr.
> college that she'll be attending.
So it's probably just textbook stuff, translating well-edited text both
ways, to produce painfully accurate translations? First big surprise in
the real world would be to find that authors never write that well....
> We only talked
> about this for a few minutes tonight. I'll see her
> again in a couple of weeks and we'll have a lot
> mor etime to chat. What field would you go into if
> you could start over again now, knowing what you
> already know?
Uh.... You mean what would I have done if I'd developed an ambition to
be a translator at age 17? For a start, the idea would have been shot
down as being unsuitable, backed with yet another long rant on how I
shouldn't settle for a technician's job when I have the abilities and
backing to chose any career I want. Then I'd've had to be more forceful
with the Careers Mistress who laughed at my suggestion of going to Japan
on a Mombusho scholarship at age 18, on the grounds that I'd already
failed Latin and only scraped a bare pass in French.
But I'd still go through with the engineering degree and I'd still do it
_before_ doing any formal training in translation (not that I ever got
such training, of course). But doing the degree in the foreign language
while reading around the subject in my own would've been so much more
useful.
A better field at the moment would be bio-chemical or medical or
economics, I suppose, but I doubt I could've ever got up to speed there,
since I have little interest in them. As Ryan says, it has to be
something you're interested in.
Ryan Ginstrom
" Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1g2jz9v.5vsjm2xkqrjmN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> So it's probably just textbook stuff, translating well-edited text both
> ways, to produce painfully accurate translations?
Louise is far more optimistic than me. Unless "painfully accurate" places an
emphasis on painful...
> Uh.... You mean what would I have done if I'd developed an ambition to
> be a translator at age 17? For a start, the idea would have been shot
> down as being unsuitable, backed with yet another long rant on how I
> shouldn't settle for a technician's job when I have the abilities and
> backing to chose any career I want.
For some reason, successful translators never seem to have set out to become
translators, they sort of ended up that way. Not saying that I'm necessarily
successful, but that was the case with me as well.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Bryce
"Ryan Ginstrom" <gins...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm29hj$ho9gn$1...@ID-101276.news.uni-berlin.de...
It kinda falls onto you without you ever planning for it. At least in my
case. Lot's of times translating for the Lions Club delegations that come
into the Seattle area sister cities from the Kobe and surrounding areas, we
find that their front teams have to put brochures together, etc. as well
before they come over or vice versa for the exchanges that go that way. It's
a terrific way to meet lot's of nice people. Then you can see them all in
Japan when you're there, and if you aren't near your homebase while in
Japan, you can save lot's of money by staying with those folks. I kinda envy
the ones here that are long term there right now; it sems to have changed
quite a bit even in the past 5 years. Hard to tell though with only 1-2 week
stints.
Louise Bremner
> Translation is just an elective course at the Jr.
> college that she'll be attending.
It later occurred to me to wonder what her objectives are. If this is
just a way of getting a slightly more interesting job as an OL (with
more pay and less of the tea-making duties), seeing as how this is a
Junior College, I'd say go for it....
Louise Bremner
> Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators I know
> consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my office an
> average translator goes well beyond 6000 [words] without overtime :)
Ye gods.... I don't know what part of Bryan's post induced you to share
that with us, but I thank you for the warning concerning your office's
work.
I confess I have done stints of 6000 words a day (not in an office
atmosphere, and with frequent use of copy-and-paste from previous jobs),
but I'll also admit that the resultant quality was abysmal. I ran it
through a spell-checker, of course, but there was no time to read it
through carefully to check for from/form typos and grammatical
mistakes--certainly no time to read for sense (often needed with J-E
translations).
> If she is serious, perhaps she may even download and try one of TM tools out
> there like Trados, Deja Vu, Wordfast etc.
Ah.... I wonder if that explains it.
Ryan Ginstrom
> Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators I
know
> > consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my office
an
> > average translator goes well beyond 6000 [words] without overtime :)
>
> Ye gods.... I don't know what part of Bryan's post induced you to share
> that with us, but I thank you for the warning concerning your office's
> work.
He did say European translators though, which I took to mean translators
working between European languages. I can easily see 6,000 words of (e.g.)
Spanish->Italian getting done in 8 hours with reasonable quality.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Ryan Ginstrom
"Bryce" <fuk...@takethisout.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D_3hb.1566$Qm6.1...@news.uswest.net...
> I kinda envy
> the ones here that are long term there right now; it sems to have changed
> quite a bit even in the past 5 years. Hard to tell though with only 1-2
week
> stints.
Sounds like my trips back to the states, except it's getting worse and not
better. The last few times it's just been a list of things to get checked
off so I could come back to Japan.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Louise Bremner
> > > Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators I
> > > know consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my
> > > office an average translator goes well beyond 6000 [words] without
> > > overtime :)
> >
> > Ye gods.... I don't know what part of Bryan's post induced you to share
> > that with us, but I thank you for the warning concerning your office's
> > work.
>
> He did say European translators though, which I took to mean translators
> working between European languages. I can easily see 6,000 words of (e.g.)
> Spanish->Italian getting done in 8 hours with reasonable quality.
That could be true, I suppose (not that I know that much about how
similar Spanish and Italian are at that level). Since this is
fj.life.in-japan and it appears the subject of the original post is a
Japanese person, I can't be blaimed for making assumptions about at
least one of the languages involved, can I?
Mind you, that would make that contribution to the thread even more
bizarre....
Haluk
yazd?:bm21va$hnkir$2...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
If the presentation is text-only or contains excessive amounts of text it
may be well over 5000 words.
Considering Powerpoint is not the word editing environment of translators'
dreams, I think two days is very fair :)
Haluk
yazdı:1g2kc4e.19t6vs0193csk7N%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> Haluk <yokoo...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > Translating like 3500 - 4000 words a day, many European translators I
know
> > consider themselves fast; but I never tell them that here in my office
an
> > average translator goes well beyond 6000 [words] without overtime :)
>
> Ye gods.... I don't know what part of Bryan's post induced you to share
> that with us, but I thank you for the warning concerning your office's
> work.
>
> I confess I have done stints of 6000 words a day (not in an office
> atmosphere, and with frequent use of copy-and-paste from previous jobs),
> but I'll also admit that the resultant quality was abysmal. I ran it
> through a spell-checker, of course, but there was no time to read it
> through carefully to check for from/form typos and grammatical
> mistakes--certainly no time to read for sense (often needed with J-E
> translations).
>
> > If she is serious, perhaps she may even download and try one of TM tools
out
> > there like Trados, Deja Vu, Wordfast etc.
>
> Ah.... I wonder if that explains it.
>
6000 words is very doable if:
1- a TM tool and a professional translation environment is used (Trados,
Dejavu etc). Using such tools cannot be interpreted as comprimise from
quality. They are industry standard tools used by all fine translation
agencies and freelancers in US and in Europe.
2- the translator is skilled enough in both languages. Translator must be
native speaker of target language and have adequate academic background. We
don't work with dumbs.
3- translated text is than fed to a designated proofreader (also native).
4- translator has adequate computer skills -as I said in my original post...
That's how most professionals I know and we in my office work. We did some
very stiff projects and never received complaints.
From your last comment on TM tools, I assume you're not very familiar with
the industry or at least the conveniences of TM tools. <my two cents>I
recommend you to try one of these too. You may increase your income, and
from what I understand from your posting, you will definitely increase the
overall quality of your work</my two cents>
As for the relevance of my posting to Bryan's question, he asked
professional advice, and I took a minute to share some. My suggestions were
general and not specific to ANY language.
Regards,
cc
"Ryan Ginstrom" <gins...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> For some reason, successful translators never seem to have set out to
become
> translators, they sort of ended up that way. Not saying that I'm
necessarily
> successful, but that was the case with me as well.
You are talking about foreign translators in Japan, which is a particular
case. And well that girl will never be in that category. She should ask to
young Japanese translators.
CC
Ryan Ginstrom
"cc" <cpasune...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:bm2vkb$ba8$3...@bgsv5647.tk.mesh.ad.jp...
>
> "Ryan Ginstrom" <gins...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > For some reason, successful translators never seem to have set out to
> become
> > translators, they sort of ended up that way. Not saying that I'm
> necessarily
> > successful, but that was the case with me as well.
>
> You are talking about foreign translators in Japan, which is a particular
> case.
I am talking about successful translators. There are many starry-eyed women
who dream about careers in translating. I also know a number of Japanese
translators who I consider to be "successful."
(1) They have a skill -- ie they know about something other than
English/German/whatever
(2) They have (for the most part) lived abroad in the country of their B
language
(3) They are good writers in Japanese.
>And well that girl will never be in that category. She should ask to
> young Japanese translators.
That girl's circumstances may be slightly different than those of the
average young Japanese woman. But even if they weren't, my statement would
still stand.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Brett Robson
>
>
>6000 words is very doable if:
>
>1- a TM tool and a professional translation environment is used (Trados,
>Dejavu etc). Using such tools cannot be interpreted as comprimise from
>quality. They are industry standard tools used by all fine translation
>agencies and freelancers in US and in Europe.
:
>That's how most professionals I know and we in my office work. We did some
>very stiff projects and never received complaints.
>
You are posting from Turkey so I would question whether you have any experience
with Japanese, the most simple sentences get garbled by automatic translations.
I have had to rewrite the results of a couple of these and it is in fact more
time consuming than manual translation.
.
----
"I went to Japan once, and was very dissapointed in what I saw."
quote from Japan Today forums.
Ryan Ginstrom
"Brett Robson" <jet...@deja.com> wrote in message
news:bm302...@drn.newsguy.com...
> You are posting from Turkey so I would question whether you have any
experience
> with Japanese, the most simple sentences get garbled by automatic
translations.
> I have had to rewrite the results of a couple of these and it is in fact
more
> time consuming than manual translation.
He was mentioning translation memory tools however, which are slightly
different than machine translation. Basically they just remember all the
sentences you (or someone else) have translated in the past, and if they
find a match for the one you are currently translating, they offer it up to
you as a suggestion. If you are translating something like the revision of a
manual, which you have already translated once, these can save an enormous
amount of time.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Brett Robson
>
>
>He was mentioning translation memory tools however, which are slightly
>different than machine translation. Basically they just remember all the
>sentences you (or someone else) have translated in the past, and if they
>find a match for the one you are currently translating, they offer it up to
>you as a suggestion. If you are translating something like the revision of a
>manual, which you have already translated once, these can save an enormous
>amount of time.
That's interesting, certainly would be helpful especially IBM manuals where
every second page is "this page is intentionally blank", or words to that
effect.
Haluk
yazdı:bm32c...@drn.newsguy.com...
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:10:57 +0900, Ryan Ginstrom ...
> >
> >
> >He was mentioning translation memory tools however, which are slightly
> >different than machine translation. Basically they just remember all the
> >sentences you (or someone else) have translated in the past, and if they
> >find a match for the one you are currently translating, they offer it up
to
> >you as a suggestion. If you are translating something like the revision
of a
> >manual, which you have already translated once, these can save an
enormous
> >amount of time.
>
>
> That's interesting, certainly would be helpful especially IBM manuals
where
> every second page is "this page is intentionally blank", or words to that
> effect.
>
Exactly. TM tools are especially great with user manuals and alike. And they
are the production of time and experience of thousands of other translators,
who has been there before and who has seen it before. So they contain almost
all the functionality that any translator may wish for.
I have stayed in Japan for 4 years and worked freelance there, mainly as
interpreter. So I know what you mean about mojibake. I have never used TM
tools for Japanese translations though.
But Wordfast for instance is a set of Word macros and integrates in MS Word.
If you're using MS Word, you can give it a try (www.wordfast.net). You can
download a completely functional free copy. It has however, one limitation:
it will work with a limited translation memory of (I guess) 150 translation
units (segments, sentences etc).
But even limited version shoud boost your productivity up to 30% with those
IBM manuals.
Most translation tools have quality check options. They check the numbers,
html tags etc in the source sentence and target sentence and make sure they
are identical. So, TM increases the quality while saving time.
Regards,
Haluk
Bryce
I would suppose that if you come back to the states now and then, and you've
been in Japan for 5 years or more, you'll be suprised that a lot of kids
here are wearing their pants almost down to their knees; kinda like they are
showing off their underwear or something. I think it started with the
african-americans doing it and then the mainstream wanted to do it. I think
both cultures have their silly things though. I mean, that high-heal fad
that the Japanese girls went through was kinda funny and that really dark
green highliner and stuff.
Ryan Ginstrom
> I would suppose that if you come back to the states now and then, and
you've
> been in Japan for 5 years or more, you'll be suprised that a lot of kids
> here are wearing their pants almost down to their knees; kinda like they
are
I remember that from the 80s dude, what rock have you been living under? Oh
yeah, you were in the J-slammer tossing wafuu salads, weren't you?
At any rate, even if I had missed this trend in the states, I couldn't be
spared it here. My wife thinks that this is one of the stupidest trends the
Japanese have imitated, since the Japanese already have short legs and this
just makes them look shorter. I think this is a stupid trend because you
have to walk around pulling up your pants all the time. Never choose fashion
over comfort or convenience, I always say.
Now I'm just waiting for the little butterfly tattoos on the top of the
asscrack to start peeking out from the gap between the hiphugger pants and
short shirt.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Bryce
> Now I'm just waiting for the little butterfly tattoos on the top of the
> asscrack to start peeking out from the gap between the hiphugger pants and
> short shirt.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ryan Ginstrom
>
Better seeing a butterfly tattoo on a Japanese asscrack than some big fat
white bitch's ass crack in the states.
marc
> If you had any professional advice to offer a
> charming 17 year old Japanese girl with dreams of
> graduating in March and definitely going to attend
> www.obirin.ac.jp
>
translating is about the most mind-numbing unfulfilling occupation anyone
could elect. It is a very mechanical activity where the only creativity lies
in trying to figure out clever ways to stay faithful to the original and yet
sound natural. I am quite sure competition in Japan is keen and that
translators are not paid proportionate to the amount of training they go
through to get qualified.
Probably this person is just interested in foreign languages, which is a
fine thing , but is only choosing the most obvious foreign language career.
I think you should tell her that a foreign language can be important it a
lot of other careers. My strong advice to anyone thinking of specializing in
a foreign language is combine it with another primary career. Don't know
what else this lady is interested in, but something like a business degree
with a language major, etc. is the kind of thing I think she should be
considering. Even combinations that you wouldn't think would be helped by a
foreign language often can be. I ended up a research biologist, but having a
background in Japanese has gotten me a lot of job opportunities either in
Japanese companies or US companies doing work in Japan, etc.
Using a foreign language skill just to become a translator is kind of a
waste, since the job will get boring quick and the pay will never compensate
for the amount of training it takes to be competitive in the field.
JMO
marc
Eric Takabayashi
> translating is about the most mind-numbing unfulfilling occupation anyone
> could elect.
I would say doing mass production work as on a factory assembly line, making
something exciting and high tech like brake pads. 12 hours a day, six days a
week.
People I know as translators or studying to be translators like it very much.
If I could get something relatively simple, like translating popular shonen
manga or reviewing anime for the American audience, that would be the bomb. The
people who got into the industry on the ground floor in the mid 80s, when it
first became established, like the staff of Animeigo, are some of the
authorities today.
> It is a very mechanical activity where the only creativity lies
> in trying to figure out clever ways to stay faithful to the original and yet
> sound natural.
In the case of the people who translate or review manga and anime, it could
also be damned fun to see and read so much material, and the knowledge and
experience they gain in the process, would only serve them further. I haven't
been interested in popular anime or manga since 1995, and I'm totally lost on
what is being put out now or what has happened in the industry since.
> I am quite sure competition in Japan is keen and that
> translators are not paid proportionate to the amount of training they go
> through to get qualified.
I know people who do it for fun, simply to see their own material, or their own
original books, in print.
> Probably this person is just interested in foreign languages, which is a
> fine thing , but is only choosing the most obvious foreign language career.
Teaching.
Working in the international section.
Working overseas or for a foreign organization.
> I think you should tell her that a foreign language can be important it a
> lot of other careers. My strong advice to anyone thinking of specializing in
> a foreign language is combine it with another primary career. Don't know
> what else this lady is interested in, but something like a business degree
> with a language major, etc. is the kind of thing I think she should be
> considering. Even combinations that you wouldn't think would be helped by a
> foreign language often can be. I ended up a research biologist, but having a
> background in Japanese has gotten me a lot of job opportunities either in
> Japanese companies or US companies doing work in Japan, etc.
>
> Using a foreign language skill just to become a translator is kind of a
> waste, since the job will get boring quick
Nah.
> and the pay will never compensate
> for the amount of training it takes to be competitive in the field.
That could be true, if it were a technical field.
Ryan Ginstrom
"marc" <spam...@eatthis.com> wrote in message
news:ykNhb.259008$mp.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> lot of other careers. My strong advice to anyone thinking of specializing
in
> a foreign language is combine it with another primary career.
Agree.
> Using a foreign language skill just to become a translator is kind of a
> waste, since the job will get boring quick and the pay will never
compensate
> for the amount of training it takes to be competitive in the field.
I don't know. I think it must depend on the field. I figured that I could
earn more as a translator who knew how to program, than as a code monkey who
knew Japanese.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Haluk
yazd?:bm93ja$jq95i$1...@ID-101276.news.uni-berlin.de...
Most definately. And since you mentioned it, I also recommend basic macro
editing skills. Macros are great way of speeding up most time consuming
tasks by simply automating them.