the disappointment of Spain
handeeman
more dangerous place to live.
I could not understand the way Jigotai (Angel) attacked Judoka (Mike) in the
wake of 911. I found his insensitive remarks in the wake of such horror
uncomprehendable. Now when Spain gets a taste of this terror, it cries
MAITE! I see now that when the going gets tough, the Spanish get going
(tail tucked between their legs).
HANSOKUMAKE SPAIN!
Jigotai
> more dangerous place to live.
Where do you come from now? USA gouvernemet begun the war in Irak... from
this day on, wordl is much more dangerous. As you will know, Aznar
gouvernement has been defeated at DEMOCRATIC elections. We Spanish people
only want PEACE.
> I could not understand the way Jigotai (Angel) attacked Judoka (Mike) in
the
> wake of 911. I found his insensitive remarks in the wake of such horror
> uncomprehendable. Now when Spain gets a taste of this terror, it cries
> MAITE! I see now that when the going gets tough, the Spanish get going
> (tail tucked between their legs).
I never attacked Mike. He was my friend (and I hope he remember me for the
old daus). I only told was that it seemed to me that make histories about
heroes judokas saving a flight was nor suitable. If Mike felt I attacked, it
wasn't my intention. I only said my opinion about terrorism and war.
Beginning a war against a country because 911 is not fair. Spanish
gouvernement (Aznar gouvernement) supported the war in Irak. Spanish people
didn't want war. However, Spanish army is in Irak. So, inmediately, we
became a target for islamic terrorism (as I said on 2001). Spain is in the
middle of America and arabs country. It is easiest to attack Spain that USA.
Is it a sin to want peace? Is it a sin to believe in United Nations?
Don't forget Spain has tasted terror for more than 30 years Get informed
before you write...
> HANSOKUMAKE SPAIN!
To desqualify somebody in judo, three referees have to agree.
Best regards
Angel
BertS
From CNN:
CNN also has obtained an al Qaeda document that spells out the terrorist
group's plan to separate Spain from the U.S.-led coalition on Iraq.
The document was published on the main message board that is used by al Qaeda
and its sympathizers last December.
The strategy spelled out in the document calls for using terrorist attacks to
oust Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Partido Popular from power and replace
it with the Socialists.
That, in turn, was expected to drive a wedge between Washington and Madrid and
result in the withdrawal of Spanish military forces from Iraq.
"We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or three
at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public
pressure on it," the al Qaeda document says.
"If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist Party
will be almost guaranteed -- and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be on
its campaign manifesto."
<end of quote>
The Spanish voters have given al Qaeda a victory and shown they have no cojones.
Jigotai
to
> oust Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's Partido Popular from power and
replace
> it with the Socialists.
Funny... so funny indeed.
> That, in turn, was expected to drive a wedge between Washington and Madrid
and
> result in the withdrawal of Spanish military forces from Iraq.
>
> "We think the Spanish government will not stand more than two blows, or
three
> at the most, before it will be forced to withdraw because of the public
> pressure on it," the al Qaeda document says.
>
> "If its forces remain after these blows, the victory of the Socialist
Party
> will be almost guaranteed -- and the withdrawal of Spanish forces will be
on
> its campaign manifesto."
>
> <end of quote>
Could you tell me where you have found that rubbish?
> The Spanish voters have given al Qaeda a victory and shown they have no
cojones.
It is not a question of cojones. It is a question of not supporting war.
Regards
Angel
BertS
If you had quoted the whole thing and not just a piece you would have seen it
was CNN.
Here is the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/16/spain.invest/index.html
Yes, it is a matter of cojones. You gave al Qaeda exactly what they were
looking for at a very high cost. What are the figures now? 200+ dead and
around 1500 wounded?
Sheeesh...
Chols
made a target out of them. Here Jigotai is right.
On the other hand, it's true that spaniards are giving terrorists (and
not only Al Qaeda) what they were aiming at with the Madrid bombing. Here
BertS is right.
But, most important of all, what Jigotai and BertS think does not
matter. What matters is that spaniards think they ought to change
government, no more, no less.
Chols.
P.D.---> I also hope Mike is ok and not upset with Jigotai because of his
beliefs. And I hope he keeps on practicing Judo.
P.D.D.---> Live long and prosper.
"BertS" <aas...@ix.netcom.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:N3I5c.5603$CJ5....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Jigotai
> looking for at a very high cost. What are the figures now? 200+ dead and
> around 1500 wounded?
Yes. Add these figures to all "colateral" casualties in both Afghanistan and
Irak war and you have a lot of "cojones"... Spanish people didn't give
nothing to Al Qaeda in last elections. Spanish people decided to change from
a conservative gouvernemant to a socialist gouvernement. That's all. If that
is not suitable for US gouvernement. it is not our fault. Let's see if J.F.
Kerry win the presidentials next year...
I can tell you that the deads and wounded in last bomb attacking are a
consequence of a bad foreign affair policy of our old gouvernement... It
doesn't matter where terrorists came from...
Jigotai
> But, most important of all, what Jigotai and BertS think does not
> matter. What matters is that spaniards think they ought to change
> government, no more, no less.
What do you say that? Of course I think that the most important think is
that Spanish people decided to change gouvernement.
> P.D.---> I also hope Mike is ok and not upset with Jigotai because of his
> beliefs. And I hope he keeps on practicing Judo.
He is not upset with me for my beliefs. He is upset with me because I wasn't
agree with using a history about some judoka in a flight in order to collect
money. In the middle of a disaster, some people wanted to earn money. That
was the only think I said. However, Mike missunderstood my words.
Best regards
Angel
handeeman
> this day on, wordl is much more dangerous. As you will know, Aznar
> gouvernement has been defeated at DEMOCRATIC elections. We Spanish people
> only want PEACE.
>
And what about FREEDOM?
America has 130,000 soldiers in the region right now, a hundred times the
number of our supposed "ally" Spain.
If that's the most we can expect from our close friend and supporter, the
token Euro country that Bush was holding on to to make his case that this
was some sort of "global coalition," then who needs them?
A friend of mine who recently returned from duty in Iraq had the opportunity
to work with some Spanish "soldiers" and relayed hilarious accounts of an
inept, pampered and spoiled bunch of tourists on a worthless mission of
showing up to the scene of a finished battle and then returning to the
safety of Kuwait within hours. Their entire time there is spent in the
shadows, under the heels and in the way of the real troops doing the real
work. And it's said that they get real whiny if they don't have
air-conditioning.
Get them out of there. Spain has no army. Turkey is more of an ally than
Spain. Spain is now socialist, thanks to al-Qaeda, and can take its place
among Germany and France as Old Europe.
Who knows why José María Aznar made his original pact with President Bush,
but now that he's gone, so is the help of the Spanish army.
Good. Go away. What smelled like a ridiculous partnership from the very
beginning has finally run its course. The Spanish population has now agreed
with al-Qaeda that to associate with America is to invite terrorism.
Tony Blair is next.
We are going it alone in our fight to win the hearts and minds of a world
weary of bombings and murder. Spain was only with us because José María
probably brokered some big cash in exchange for the "partnership." Spain is
now against us, or at least on the sidelines with the rest of the world.
Spain? Take your troops and get on home. No one needed you anyway. This is
America's fight. Sorry you got caught in the cross-fire. Maybe now that
you're out, al-Qaeda will leave you alone. You were a liability from the
start, and your support was minimal at best. Have a safe and prosperous
socialist future.
handeeman
judo1dan
Jigotai
"handeeman" <hand...@judolink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:SrQ5c.6961$GQ3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> USA gouvernemet begun the war in Irak... from
> > this day on, wordl is much more dangerous. As you will know, Aznar
> > gouvernement has been defeated at DEMOCRATIC elections. We Spanish
people
> > only want PEACE.
> >
>
> And what about FREEDOM?
Freedom? Who gives freedom? US? Why? It would not be better that UN gives
freedom? What exists UN for? I'm not going to keep this conversation because
you have your reasons and I have my opinios. Not you nor me have the key. I
only know that terrorism can't be beat by a total war against a country. As
we say in Spain "You can't kill flies with guns". And flies keep on flying
and killing.
Best regards
Angel
Nidan
Jigotai
army. Are you judoka? I don't think so...
Chols
dead, many wounded, we are all a little bit nervous. Let us calm down so
that we can think clearly.
handeeman
"Jigotai" <ji...@ono.es> wrote in message
news:c39d3q$24r42r$1...@ID-113466.news.uni-berlin.de...
> You are so simple that you think you are going to upset me talking about
our
> army. Are you judoka? I don't think so...
>
>
Yes, of course I am a judoka. I'm a club instructor and I support judo in
every way that I can and have since age 9 (I'm 45).
What does your question mean, though?
I think what you mean to ask is - do I have honor? Yes sir, I do. If
someone blackens my eye because I am friends with someone, I will not
abandon my friend because "I only want peace". If the price of peace is my
honor, I'm fighting.
handeeman
handeeman
>
> Freedom? Who gives freedom? US? Why? It would not be better that UN gives
> freedom?
No sir. Freedom is God given.
handeeman
Chols
>
> No sir. Freedom is God given.
>
> handeeman
>
>
The problem is Al Qaeda people think it is THEIR god who gives freedom, I
guess.
Chols
> >
> My apologies if I appear simple.
>
> Yes, of course I am a judoka. I'm a club instructor and I support judo in
> every way that I can and have since age 9 (I'm 45).
>
> What does your question mean, though?
>
> I think what you mean to ask is - do I have honor? Yes sir, I do. If
> someone blackens my eye because I am friends with someone, I will not
> abandon my friend because "I only want peace". If the price of peace is
my
> honor, I'm fighting.
>
> handeeman
>
>
>
I'm with you here.
Judoka
the terrorists. They have achieved the desired results -- i.e., shock, awe
and the electoral defeat of the incumbent Spanish administration, a U.S.
supporter in the global war on terrorism. We and our allies can expect this
to become the norm rather than the exception as the terrorists are now sure,
right or wrong, that they can influence the outcome of elections with timely
acts of terrorism.
The intense hatred of the current U.S. administration, coupled with the
success enjoyed by the terrorists in Spain, in my opinion, will no doubt
lead to yet another major attack on our shores shortly before the
presidential election in November. Those who believe that a change in the
current administration will stop the attacks are foolish. The intent of the
terrorists is to destroy our way of life regardless of who is in the White
House. They hope to get a weak administration elected that doesn't have the
will to continue the fight, thus making it easier to commit additional and
more spectacular acts of terrorism.
My two cents . . .
Mike
Shodan
Orlando
BertS
Well said. But I think they will find that the US is a much tougher nut to
gnaw. Japanese Admiral Yamamoto said right after the attack on Pearl Harbor:
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a
terrible resolve."
Americans rally behind their leaders. Considering the behavior of the
Democratic candidate during the Vietnam era the voters would not vote for
other than a proven leader who lead when the time was needed to lead.
Bert
Jigotai
So simple. You find confrontation with me.
> I think what you mean to ask is - do I have honor? Yes sir, I do. If
> someone blackens my eye because I am friends with someone, I will not
> abandon my friend because "I only want peace". If the price of peace is
my
> honor, I'm fighting.
Let's talk about honor. If my friend wants my help, he will have it. But if
my friend gets me help telling lies about, let's say, "mass destruction
weapons", he does not deserve neither my help not my friendness. If the
price of your lies is my honor, I quit. I won't die because your lies...
Jigotai
> success enjoyed by the terrorists in Spain, in my opinion, will no doubt
> lead to yet another major attack on our shores shortly before the
> presidential election in November. Those who believe that a change in the
> current administration will stop the attacks are foolish. The intent of
the
> terrorists is to destroy our way of life regardless of who is in the White
> House. They hope to get a weak administration elected that doesn't have
the
> will to continue the fight, thus making it easier to commit additional and
> more spectacular acts of terrorism.
Spanish new administration only will maintain its army in Irak under UN
authority. Not under either US or Poland authority. Is it so difficult to
understand?
Chols
July, so that Zapatero keeps his word and Spanish soldiers don't come back
home. We'll see if theres enough time till July.
Jigotai
"Chols" <NOS...@NOMESCRIBAS.JARL> escribió en el mensaje
news:405e9...@news.arrakis.es...
> Most probably UN will find a way to keep Spanish army in Irak before
> July, so that Zapatero keeps his word and Spanish soldiers don't come back
> home. We'll see if theres enough time till July.
Let's see in July. If Zapatero doesn't keep his word, I will be the first
person in call him "liar". I agree that Spanish army must keep in Irak under
UN control.
Jigotai
Harbor:
> "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a
> terrible resolve."
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will only leave the world blind
and toothless." Mahatma Gandhi.
Judoka
>
> > P.D.---> I also hope Mike is ok and not upset with Jigotai because of
his
> > beliefs. And I hope he keeps on practicing Judo.
>
Of course I'm still practicing judo, no longer competing - just teaching,
coaching and refereeing.
Thanks for thinking of me. I never left, just quiet.
> He is not upset with me for my beliefs. He is upset with me because I
wasn't
> agree with using a history about some judoka in a flight in order to
collect
> money. In the middle of a disaster, some people wanted to earn money. That
> was the only think I said. However, Mike missunderstood my words.
There was no misunderstanding, Angel. You were very clear. What I found to
be painful was your lack of empathy for your friend going through a tough
time. In the midst of a very dark hour, I found that story about Jeremy
Glick, the collegiate judo champion who gave his life fighting terrorists to
save others. Unfortunately, he couldn't fly that doomed plane, but he did
have fighting skills and COJONES to save others. You see, after talking on
the airplane phone with his wife, he knew what their intentions were. I was
SO PROUD to come share that story on this newsgroup and you just threw it
back in my face - questioning his heroics and that of his fellow passengers
that fought back. You claimed it was merely an attempt to sell newspapers.
How callous. I'd still like to know what makes a hero in YOUR book?
Mike
Jigotai
> coaching and refereeing.
> Thanks for thinking of me. I never left, just quiet.
Thanks. Hitoshi send regards to you. He has improved his english a lot.
> There was no misunderstanding, Angel. You were very clear.
Reading your next paragraph, I am sure you missunderstood my words.
> What I found to
> be painful was your lack of empathy for your friend going through a tough
> time. In the midst of a very dark hour, I found that story about Jeremy
> Glick, the collegiate judo champion who gave his life fighting terrorists
to
> save others. Unfortunately, he couldn't fly that doomed plane, but he did
> have fighting skills and COJONES to save others. You see, after talking
on
> the airplane phone with his wife, he knew what their intentions were. I
was
> SO PROUD to come share that story on this newsgroup and you just threw it
> back in my face - questioning his heroics and that of his fellow
passengers
> that fought back. You claimed it was merely an attempt to sell
newspapers.
> How callous. I'd still like to know what makes a hero in YOUR book?
I NEVER said that Jeremy did that in order to have some words in newspapers.
I NEVER said that Jeremy did that to selling more newspapers. What I said is
that it wasn't the moment of telling stories about heroes because hundred of
people were killed. Newspapers took that story as a show, If you asked me.
Besides, someone took advantage of that and founded a fondation to earn
money. That was I didn't agree with. Of course, his action was so brave and
proud. But what happened after was what I didn't like. You took that as a
personal offense and it wasn't my intention at all. Maybe my english is not
good enough.
If you want to understand, it would be a good beginning. I'll do my best . I
can't do nothing more.
Best regards
Angel