Alien Registration for kids
Declan Murphy
is a pregnant student", not as in "I got her up the duff"...)
She is a gaigin, the hubby is Japanese. The guidebook says, "When a
child is born in Japan, a member of the same household should apply for
foreign resident registration within 60 days of birth."
Does this apply when only one of the parents is a gaigin? There is
plenty of time to get an answer from the folks at friendly city hall of
course, but I'm submitting the manuscript for the new guidebook
tomorrow, and would rather have the info in now than out.
For most of you with kids I assume they have dual nationality and that
you will/may have registered them with the relevant gaigokuland
consulate/embassy, but did you also need to traipse down to city hall?
--
"Oh don't give me none more of that Old Janx Spirit/ No, don't you give
me none more of that Old Janx Spirit/ For my head will fly, my tongue
will lie, my eyes will fry and I may die/ Won't you pour me one more of
that sinful Old Janx Spirit"
Ryan Ginstrom
news:404EDA08...@hotmail.com...
> For most of you with kids I assume they have dual nationality and that
> you will/may have registered them with the relevant gaigokuland
> consulate/embassy, but did you also need to traipse down to city hall?
The kid will have Japanese citizenship, so just do the normal stuff you
would do for a Japanese kid, i.e. the old 出生届.
Must be within 14 days (including day of birth), and you need your 母子手帳,
出生証明書, and 印鑑.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Declan Murphy
OK thanks.
Haluk Skywalker
news:404EDA08...@hotmail.com...
There is no such thing as dual nationality in Japan. Kid is either Japanese
or not. I believe they will leave the kid Japanese, and the kid will get to
chose his/her nationality at age of 18. At least that is how we did it.
Haluk Skywalker
news:c2mo2c$1vnls3$1...@ID-201738.news.uni-berlin.de...
She will (surely) want to register the baby in her country and that is done
via her consulate.
Murgi
Japanese
> or not. I believe they will leave the kid Japanese, and the kid will get
to
> chose his/her nationality at age of 18. At least that is how we did it.
Not officially, but there is a number of them who have both nationalities.
You just stay mum and don't tell the Japanese government. They would always
use their Japanese passport here in Japan...
Sigi
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com>, iletide sunu yazdi
> There is no such thing as dual nationality in Japan. Kid is either Japanese
There is indeed. They have until they reach 18 to choose one over the
other, but until then they can, indeed, be dual citizens. In fact, they
can be dual citizens after that, but you have to circumvent the rules
a bit.
Mike
Rafael Caetano
Which rules? I know some Brazilians who have also Japanese citizenship
but I've never heard they had to choose one of them, except when they
want to apply for some scholarships (available only to Brazilians).
--
Rafael Caetano
Eric Takabayashi
> mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net wrote:
> > Haluk Skywalker <yok.oo...@spam.net> wrote:
> >
> >>"Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com>, iletide sunu yazdi
> >
> >
> >>There is no such thing as dual nationality in Japan. Kid is either Japanese
> >
> >
> > There is indeed. They have until they reach 18 to choose one over the
> > other, but until then they can, indeed, be dual citizens. In fact, they
> > can be dual citizens after that, but you have to circumvent the rules
> > a bit.
>
> Which rules?
Something like this
http://usembassy.state.gov/tokyo/wwwh7118b.html
How former Peruvian President Fujimori was recognized as a Japanese citizen,
despite being the president of a foreign country and not having lived in Japan
or speaking Japanese, to avoid his being sent back to his home country to face
criminal charges was laughable. Meanwhile Japan bitches how countries like China
do not hand over their own native born citizens accused of crimes, to Japan, for
crimes in Japan.
> I know some Brazilians who have also Japanese citizenship
> but I've never heard they had to choose one of them,
Maybe they are also Japanese citizens, the way Fujimori is a Japanese citizen,
and Brazil did not force them to choose one or give up their other citizenship,
the way Japan does.
> except when they
> want to apply for some scholarships (available only to Brazilians).
>
> --
> Rafael Caetano
--
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had to cut off his arm after it got trapped under a boulder, it might be time
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mr.sumo.snr
news:c2n8gg$kc2$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
I thought it was at 20 years old that quasi dual nationality individuals had
to choose. In other words at the age in Japan that one reaches adulthood.
BTW of the 8 offspring of American, Australian and British fathers that I
know who are now adults - in the Japanese sense of the word - all of them
still have their 'other' passports. It's not very surprising really - all
three of those countries have absolutely no problem with their citizens or
subjects maintaining dual nationality status - it's a Japanese 'thing' that
you have to make a choice.
I expect the local immigration office are too busy helping the vice squad
bust Austrian/Sepponian run prostitution rings in Kanagawa, to bother
themselves with what must be a very small problem in the greater immigrant
scheme of things.
--
jonathan
Rafael Caetano
> Rafael Caetano wrote:
(...)
>>I know some Brazilians who have also Japanese citizenship
>>but I've never heard they had to choose one of them,
>
>
> Maybe they are also Japanese citizens, the way Fujimori is a Japanese citizen,
> and Brazil did not force them to choose one or give up their other citizenship,
> the way Japan does.
I don't know the rules, but the people I know were born in Brazil to
Japanese (as in born in Japan) parents. They have both Brazilian and
Japanese passports.
I still don't understand. If Japan forces them to give up their other
citizenship, what does it matter whether Brazil does the same?
Is it that Japan doesn't have the means to _enforce_ the rule? I
wouldn't think so, because the Japanese consulate in Brazil is well
aware of people above 18 with double citizenship.
Perhaps it's a exception to Brazilians?
--
Rafael Caetano
Habar
(i.e., before the change in Nationality Law was enacted):
If you were less than 20 years old on January 1, 1985, choose by your
22nd birthday;
If you were 20 years old or older on January 1, 1985, choose by December
31, 1986;
*** If you did not choose your nationality within these periods, it is
assumed that you chose Japanese nationality. ***
Since it is assumed, then there is no more action to take, therefore,
these people can keep their other citizenships also. Right?
John W.
consulate where we were told that he doesn't have to 'choose' until
he's 18.
John W.
Ryan Ginstrom
"mr.sumo.snr" <llanelli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c2nih5$1vg94g$1...@ID-141600.news.uni-
> I thought it was at 20 years old that quasi dual nationality individuals
had
> to choose. In other words at the age in Japan that one reaches adulthood.
Right, 20. And when you have dual citizenship, the rule of "if you don't
explicitly say, we will assume you chose Japanese" will almost always apply.
Even if you must "choose," however, by relinquishing your foreign passport,
most countries won't actually recognize this as giving up your citizenship.
Having a nationality is like being in the mafia, once you're in they don't
like to let you out.
For instance, in the case of the US, all you have to do is head down to your
nearest embassy/consulate, tell them what happened, fill out a form, and get
a new passport.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> ***? If you did not choose your nationality within these periods, it is
> assumed that you chose Japanese nationality. ***
> Since it is assumed, then there is no more action to take, therefore,
> these people can keep their other citizenships also. Right?
So long as they always enter and leave the country on their Japanese
passports, there's really no way for them to tell.
Mike
mr.sumo.snr
news:c2njqb$1vsmch$1...@ID-224867.news.uni-berlin.de...
As I facetiously alluded to in another post, I expect the Japanese
immigration authorities have better things to do with their time than track
down these "past their use by date" holders of dual nationality status.
If they were here in Japan and represented a significant minority, then
perhaps it would be a different matter - especially if they all tried to
vote.
--
jonathan
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
>> There is indeed. They have until they reach 18 to choose one over the
>> other, but until then they can, indeed, be dual citizens. In fact, they
>> can be dual citizens after that, but you have to circumvent the rules
>> a bit.
>>
> I thought it was at 20 years old that quasi dual nationality individuals had
> to choose. In other words at the age in Japan that one reaches adulthood.
So far, we've heard at least 3 different ages on this thread. Japanese
rules being what they are, I'm sure all 3 are correct :-)
> BTW of the 8 offspring of American, Australian and British fathers that I
> know who are now adults - in the Japanese sense of the word - all of them
> still have their 'other' passports. It's not very surprising really - all
> three of those countries have absolutely no problem with their citizens or
> subjects maintaining dual nationality status - it's a Japanese 'thing' that
> you have to make a choice.
As long as you give them no reason to do so (and enter and leave the
country on your Japanese passport), they probably don't care.
Mike
Brett Robson
One of my friends goes to immigration and ward offices carrying both his
Canadian and Japanese passports and no one ever says anything. Not recommending
this of course.
.
----
Triangle Man hits Person Man
They have a fight
and Triangle Man wins
Brett Robson
>
><mtfe...@netMAPSONscape.net> wrote in message
>news:c2n8gg$kc2$1...@news.Stanford.EDU...
>> Haluk Skywalker <yok.oo...@spam.net> wrote:
>> > "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com>, iletide sunu yazdi
>>
>> > There is no such thing as dual nationality in Japan. Kid is either
>Japanese
>>
>> There is indeed. They have until they reach 18 to choose one over the
>> other, but until then they can, indeed, be dual citizens. In fact, they
>> can be dual citizens after that, but you have to circumvent the rules
>> a bit.
>>
>
>I thought it was at 20 years old that quasi dual nationality individuals had
>to choose. In other words at the age in Japan that one reaches adulthood.
>
>BTW of the 8 offspring of American, Australian and British fathers that I
>know who are now adults - in the Japanese sense of the word - all of them
>still have their 'other' passports. It's not very surprising really - all
>three of those countries have absolutely no problem with their citizens or
>subjects maintaining dual nationality status - it's a Japanese 'thing' that
>you have to make a choice.
Australia does not recognize dual citizenship but turns a blind eye in most
cases. If you become an Australian ctizen you have to show the old cancelled
passport but many countries (eg UK) will issue a replacement passport
immediately. Many countries such as Greece still recognise you as Greek even if
you weren't born there and claim you as a citizen but Australia ignores this. If
you actively pursue the citizenship of another country you are expected to give
up your Australian citizenship, obviously this is hard to enforce. There is talk
of changing this but I don't think it has happened yet.
Declan Murphy
All of the above changed with effect from 4th April 2002 following the
repeal of Section 17 of the Australian Citizenship Act of 1948. In other
words any expat strayan can *actively* acquire another citizenship
without forfeiting their Australian citizenship under Australian law.
Where a lot of people get screwed though, is if they actively acquired
another citizenship before 4 April 2002. As in parliament's wont, the
repeal was not made retrospective, so the said expats (mostly living in
sepponia apparently) do not automatically regain their forfeited
Australian citizenship (at least not without having to jump through
hoops). What that means is that children born to a "Aussie" couple
overseas, where neither (parent) is "Australian" at the time the child
is born, often cannot be registered as Australian citizens by descent
(until said hoops are jumped through).
Rafael Caetano
> "Rafael Caetano" <rcae...@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
(...)
>>I don't know the rules, but the people I know were born in Brazil to
>>Japanese (as in born in Japan) parents. They have both Brazilian and
>>Japanese passports.
>>I still don't understand. If Japan forces them to give up their other
>>citizenship, what does it matter whether Brazil does the same?
>>
>>Is it that Japan doesn't have the means to _enforce_ the rule? I
>>wouldn't think so, because the Japanese consulate in Brazil is well
>>aware of people above 18 with double citizenship.
>>Perhaps it's a exception to Brazilians?
>>
>
>
> As I facetiously alluded to in another post, I expect the Japanese
> immigration authorities have better things to do with their time than track
> down these "past their use by date" holders of dual nationality status.
I've checked the consulate website. You should choose one of the
nationalities before turning 22. BUT that law holds only for people who
were born in 1985 or later.
--
Rafael Caetano
Murgi
> consulate where we were told that he doesn't have to 'choose' until
> he's 18.
For Japanese it's 20 (adulthood) as far as I am informed.
Sigi
Eric Takabayashi
> Eric Takabayashi wrote:
>
> > Rafael Caetano wrote:
> (...)
> >>I know some Brazilians who have also Japanese citizenship
> >>but I've never heard they had to choose one of them,
> >
> >
> > Maybe they are also Japanese citizens, the way Fujimori is a Japanese citizen,
> > and Brazil did not force them to choose one or give up their other citizenship,
> > the way Japan does.
>
> I don't know the rules, but the people I know were born in Brazil to
> Japanese (as in born in Japan) parents. They have both Brazilian and
> Japanese passports.
> I still don't understand. If Japan forces them to give up their other
> citizenship, what does it matter whether Brazil does the same?
You are talking about if Japan actually investigated if their citizens give up any
other citizenship. Apparently, they don't check that well, as Debito who became a
naturalized Japanese citizen, and foreigners who've had children grow up dual
citizens, retaining their foreign citizenship while declaring Japanese citizenship,
have shown. Therefore people like your Brazilian friends are able to remain dual
citizens as adults.
> Is it that Japan doesn't have the means to _enforce_ the rule?
Sure they do. They could simply try inquiring at foreign consulates or embassies, or
checking at Immigration to be sure the visas and stamps in passports are in order.
The way Immigration bureaus are not choosy about how they stamp my children's'
passports would make it obvious they are using more than one (the US demands dual
citizens present both passports when traveling). And if the government found out
people were dual citizens against Japanese law, they could do something to penalize
the offenders, like stripping them of Japanese citizenship, or not recognizing their
foreign citizenship.
But then, Japan should scrap their old law and allow multiple citizenship and
nationality by birth anyway.
> I wouldn't think so, because the Japanese consulate in Brazil is well
> aware of people above 18 with double citizenship.
How do they know that the people are also Brazilian citizens if they don't tell the
consulate?
> Perhaps it's a exception to Brazilians?
>
> --
> Rafael Caetano
--
Eric Takabayashi
If a Japanese citizen requires a travel visa or other visa such as a student
visa or work visa abroad, or lived abroad for an extended period, it could
arouse suspicion in Japan if the Japanese passport holder did not have such
visas or exit and entry stamps in their passport.
--
If Gibson decides to make his next film about Rasputin or that Utah hiker
who had to cut off his arm after it got trapped under a boulder, it might be
time for him to seek professional help.
- Jon Niccum, Entertainment Editor
http://www.mercycorps.org/
http://www.mercycorps.org/items/1398/
http://www.mercycorps.org/mercykits.php
Mercy Corps' goal in Iraq is to work with conflict-affected communities to
meet their urgent needs while also providing a firm foundation for the
future development of economic opportunities and civil society.
Efficiency
Stephen Gallagher
What's also very significant is the METHOD in which Japan
requires the person to "choose". As I understand it,
Japan requires the person to affirm to the Japanese
authorities that he chooses Japanese citizenship
over his "other" citizenship. Because this choice
was not made before the "other" country's officials,
it very often will not result in loss of the other
country's citizenship, despite what he told to Japan.
What Japan does NOT do, is to require that the person go
to the officials of his other country and formally
give up that country's citizenship under the other
country's laws, and then to present a document from
other country stating that he is no longer one of
their citizens. If Japan wanted to really be sure
that a choice was truly made, then they would require this.
There are, in fact, a few countries that do require
this.
Stephen Gallagher
Matthew Endo
> The way Immigration bureaus are not choosy about how they stamp my
> children's' passports would make it obvious they are using more than one
> (the US demands dual citizens present both passports when traveling).
Please quote official references for this. I recall that U.S. law
requires U.S. citizens to present their U.S. passports on entry to the
U.S.
--
Matt
ma...@gol.com
John Yamamoto-Wilson
> I still don't understand. If Japan forces them to give up their other
> citizenship, what does it matter whether Brazil does the same?
The way I undrstand it is this: As long as they are in Japan they do not
have Brazilian citizenship because Japan does not allow them to do so.
However, if Brazil allows double nationality, then as soon as they leave
Japan - for Brazil or anywhere else in the world - they can assert their
Brazilian nationality.
Rafael Caetano
That doesn't explain the Japanese consulate in Brazil being complacent
with people they know have both passports.
But as I said in a previous article, I found out that the law holds only
for people who were born in 1985 or later. Apparently the law was passed
in 1984.
--
Rafael Caetano
Eric Takabayashi
Oh, you were right. So even more so, it would stand out like a sore thumb to
Japanese if the parents had their respective passports being stamped, but the
children's Japanese passports were not being stamped upon exit AND entry
because they were using their US passports while abroad.
John Yamamoto-Wilson
> That doesn't explain the Japanese consulate in Brazil being
> complacent with people they know have both passports.
I don't think it bothers them. The Japanese embassy in Brazil is not
concerned with this issue. Legally, they are entitled to offer their
services to holders of Japanese passports, and they do so. Japan simply
doesn't reciprocate the arrangement, i.e., while these people are in Japan
they are not entitled to the services of the Brazilian embassy.
The fact that Japan does not allow dual nationality does not put it in
conflict with other countries that do allow it, it just creates the
one-sided situation outlined above.
That, at least, is how I understand it.
> But as I said in a previous article, I found out that the law holds only
> for people who were born in 1985 or later. Apparently the law was passed
> in 1984.
I take it you mean people born in Japan (as I was born long before that,
came to Japan a decade ago and am not eligible for dual nationality)? If so,
what was the law *before* 1985?
Stephen Gallagher
> > cases. If you become an Australian ctizen you have to show the old cancelled
> > passport but many countries (eg UK) will issue a replacement passport
> > immediately. Many countries such as Greece still recognise you as Greek even if
> > you weren't born there and claim you as a citizen but Australia ignores this. If
> > you actively pursue the citizenship of another country you are expected to give
> > up your Australian citizenship, obviously this is hard to enforce. There is talk
> > of changing this but I don't think it has happened yet.
>
> All of the above changed with effect from 4th April 2002 following the
> repeal of Section 17 of the Australian Citizenship Act of 1948. In other
> words any expat strayan can *actively* acquire another citizenship
> without forfeiting their Australian citizenship under Australian law.
>
And actually, even before the 2002 date you listed above,
Australians were allowed to hold dual citizenship. As stated,
the change in 2002 allowed Australian adults to acquire another
citizenship without losing their Australian citizenship. But, even
prior to that date, Australians were allowed to have dual citizenship
if they acquired the non-Australian citizenship before they had
their Australian citizenship or if they acquired the non-Australian
citizenship without having to formally apply for it.
S Gallagher
Declan Murphy
Yes, I've had dual citizenship since I was a kid, travelling on both
passports. The key being that I never *actively* acquired the second
citizenship, it was just assumed that I was entitled to the passport -
and it was easier to obtain than getting a video rental card. If I
inflict kids on the world with the bride-to-be, then the sprog would
have triple citizenship until 20, and probably beyond that since Japan
will probably be a normal country by then.