Strong throw
Wetienne
Do you know the name for this throw ?
http://cercle.mikage.judo.free.fr/judo_rysskast.avi
Thanks,
EM
Gary Hubka
Gary Hubka
Shodan (Alberta, Canada)
"Wetienne" <adr...@bidon.fr> wrote in message
news:3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr...
Candyman
"Wetienne" <adr...@bidon.fr> wrote in message
news:3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr...
Hitoshi T, JAPAN
There is not this throw technique in Kodokan-techniques-book.
I think it is a variety of Ura-nage or Sukui-nage or Obitori-kaeshi.
It is contained in category of Te-waza or Sutemi-waza.
But I am not exactly.
Hitoshi (JAPAN)
Wetienne wrote in message <3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr>...
Kimmo
The link goes to a franch site and the video-clip has a swedish name.
Do you know is this the original or is it "borrowed" from an other
place?
The franch site uses also http://judoinfo.com inbedded inside own
frames in a way I myself find questionable. (don't give credit
to the original site)
Kimmo
Ged
Ged
Jigotai
If you asked me, I'd say it is a kind of Ura Nnage. However, I think that
technique should be very inneficient in a randori because if uke doesn't
help, tori is totally unable to do it. Not tsukuri, not kuzushi at all.
It looks like a technique of WWF wrestling.
Best regards
Angel
Wetienne
> Do you know is this the original or is it "borrowed" from an other
> place?
>
> The franch site uses also http://judoinfo.com inbedded inside own
> frames in a way I myself find questionable. (don't give credit
> to the original site)
>
> Kimmo
Hello,
What are you looking for ?
I'm the webmaster of the website http://cercle.mikage.judo.free.fr
Video files are just for share on NG, and are not linked in the site.
Anyway, I've never said I was the author, it's the reason I kept them "as
are".
Regarding the link to http://judoinfo.com inside the site, you can see that
visitor still know very well where he is. Why reproduce what others have
already (very well) made ? But why not share this work ?
No if you have a problem, don't hesitate to be more explicit.
Thanks,
EM
Wetienne
"Candyman" <candyma...@pi.be> a écrit dans le message de news:
au2s39$7vf$1...@reader08.wxs.nl...
> Very nice. Do you have more movie clips of judo techniques?
>
>
these videos have been sent to me by mail by a friend.
You will find judo video and gif hile on the web site www.judoinfo.com
EM
Chols
Indeed it looks like one, most espectacular!
Still, I don't completely agree with you about its suitability for
randori. Surely as a referee, you have seen many an strange technique used
to throw an opponent onto his back, haven't you? :-) Still it looks more
like a follow up or counter, not to be used directly to attack. Well. Like
Ura-nage itself, don't you think? Regards.
Chols.
P.D.---> I'm glad the group is back to like. I'm so sorry I couldn't post
for about a week or so :-(
Chols
I am afraid I have forgotten about one of the techniques you mention.
Could you please explain Obitori-gaeshi to me? Thanks.
Chols.
"Hitoshi T, JAPAN" <judo...@hotmail.com> escribio en el mensaje
news:au3ued$k1p$1...@news.megafit.net...
Hitoshi T, JAPAN
Obitori-kaeshi is ,,,,
I cant explain by English, I am sorry.
Please watch Kodokan website
Hitoshi
Chols wrote in message <3e05e...@news.arrakis.es>...
Candyman
teacher tonight.
"Ged" <gedeons...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e059...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
Kimmo
Russian Alexander Iatskevitch introduced the throw in his book
Russian Judo (Judo Masterclass Techniques) as the Georgian
Pickup.
K
Fabrice
I do agree : it looks like wrestling.
Unfortunately it also looks like an ugly technique some french competitors -
specially Djamel Bouras for instance - used to do in the last years.
While it has no name, some people called it "Pelleteuse" which in french
means something like "Caterpillar".
It seemed to be an efficient technique for very strong competitors. But, it
has nothing to do with what the Judo should be ....
Fabrice
"Jigotai" <ji...@ono.es> a écrit dans le message de news:
au46mk$3rebe$1...@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de...
Jigotai
> Still, I don't completely agree with you about its suitability for
> randori. Surely as a referee, you have seen many an strange technique used
> to throw an opponent onto his back, haven't you? :-)
Yes I have. But, the "gentle way" of this technique is weird. The ukemi of
uke doesn't seem like other in judo.
Have you ever seen somebody doing an ura-nage on competition? You lucky
man!!! :-)
> Still it looks more
> like a follow up or counter, not to be used directly to attack. Well. Like
> Ura-nage itself, don't you think? Regards.
I agree. But it still seems like a wrestling technique to me.
Jigotai
"Fabrice" <to...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:au7eem$9cu$1...@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr...
> Hello,
>
> I do agree : it looks like wrestling.
>
> Unfortunately it also looks like an ugly technique some french
competitors -
> specially Djamel Bouras for instance - used to do in the last years.
Really? I never saw this technique before. However, if we talk about
competition, we can do every technique we want. But, as you say, it has
nothing to do with what Judo should be.
> While it has no name, some people called it "Pelleteuse" which in french
> means something like "Caterpillar".
I can imagine a "pelleteuse" ("oruga" in spanish) doing that technique. Even
though doing judo... :-)
> It seemed to be an efficient technique for very strong competitors. But,
it
> has nothing to do with what the Judo should be ....
When weight diference is so big, I think.
Hitoshi T, JAPAN
I watched the video of the WAZA.
It is combined by Ura-nage and Obitori-kaeshi and Sumi-gaeshi.
I think Judoka except Japan uses some original WAZA.
The WAZA of video is not almost used in Japan.
I have not seen the WAZA in Japanese competition .
But I accept the WAZA is one of WAZA .
If UKE is the style of bending his waist forward , it is the chance to use the
WAZA.
Namely, we can catch the OBI of back and lift UKE up .
If it is not perfect , the WAZA will be Sumi-gaeshi or Obitori-gaeshi .
I think we must use some WAZA , if we get good chance to throw UKE.
I am sorry for my poor English explanation .
We throw UKE by useing the power of UKE perfectly.
It is JUDO.
"Ju yoku Go wo seisuru"(This is Japanese language)
Hitoshi(JAPAN)
ienne wrote in message <3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr>...
jack van sligter
Jigotai
"jack van sligter" <jump...@wish.nl> escribió en el mensaje
news:auvfat$naa$1...@reader1.tiscali.nl...
> it's somekind of a sasae tsuri komi ashi I think.
Not at all. It is not an ashi-waza technique at all, my friend.
My question is: Could it be a sutemi-waza?
D S
R Hunziker
For example, go to http://www.judoinfo.com/video4.htm and click on sumi
gaeshi or (especially) kuzure sumi gaeshi under the heading Suginoha Ryu.
Unfortunately, I could find no description or picture of hiki komi gaeshi
online.
Robin, Ameri-Kan Judo, Findlay, Ohio
http://www2.wcoil.com/~markjudo/
"Wetienne" <adr...@bidon.fr> wrote in message
news:3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr...
R Hunziker
going to see a beautiful seoi nage until the opponent countered with a
spectacular ura nage. I think that my jaw dropped literally.
"Jigotai" <ji...@ono.es> wrote in message
news:au82c3$59m9t$1...@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de...
J.Dijksman
As I recollect it wel he described it as a combination of ura nage with sumi
gaeshi and obi tori gaeshi.
As this not a classified throw in the kodokan curiculum, but nevertheless a
Judo technique (as he stated it is waza)
But sertainly it is not ashi-waza technique and sertainly not sasae
tsurikomi ashi which has e very different movement from the throw in the
clip.
"Jigotai" <ji...@ono.es> schreef in bericht
news:av5edj$c9ds3$1...@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de...
Joe Cabaup
and rolling into the Osaekomi he flings himself into the Osaekomi. It is
still a sacrifice throw because he is "sacrificing" his position. Now the
next question? Is this Nagewaza to be scored, or a "takedown" that would
have no score?
I would have to refer to the rule I learned about hiki komi gaeshi and sumi
gaeshi. If there is no separation between the bodies as in hikikomi then
there is no score; if there is a degree of separation (I think 90') then it
is not hikikomi but sumi gaeshi.
Any shimpans out there to confirm or deny?
Joe
"Wetienne" <adr...@bidon.fr> wrote in message
news:3e03486f$0$1520$626a...@news.free.fr...
Jigotai
<It is
> still a sacrifice throw because he is "sacrificing" his position. Now the
> next question?
Well, let's see. As far as I know a "sutemi" is a technique which our
position is sacrified so that making the throw. But, which is the meaning of
"sacrifying our position"? I think the meaning is simply that our body touch
mat before uke's one. If you take a look to sutemi-waza and yoko sutemi waza
grom from Nage-no-kata, you will see what I mean. However, this throw is
different: Tori never land before uke. It could be so close to Ura-nague, if
you want. That's the only doubt I have got.
> Is this Nagewaza to be scored, or a "takedown" that would
> have no score?
Of course. Totally. If there are control, speed and uke lands over his back
it would be ippon.
>
> I would have to refer to the rule I learned about hiki komi gaeshi and
sumi
> gaeshi. If there is no separation between the bodies as in hikikomi then
> there is no score; if there is a degree of separation (I think 90') then
it
> is not hikikomi but sumi gaeshi.
As referee, I always would called score with both techniques. There is not
diferences if there are separation or not between our body and uke's one.
Only I would not call score if:
- tori were completely on mat and made the throw.
- there was not continuity in throw.
- uke were with one of his knees over mat.
Best regards
Angel
Ray
1.Daki-sutemi: face to face arches backwards and at the last moment twisting
to land the opponent on his back first.
but missing the hug around the middle and two handed belt grab.
2.Hikkomi-gaeshi: opponents head tucked under your armpit, with you gripping
his belt at the rear and of course the lifting action with the leg, but
missing the rolling over action, this is obviously a lift not a take down.
3. The obvious lifting action of Uranage, but of course this is face to face
and not a lift from the opponents rear or side.
there does seem to be elements of all three throws but not one that I Would
like to say "yes this is the one".
Would I score it?
Yes without doubt all the elements of an Ippon score are there.
Ray.news:avsegr$jbp0p$1...@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de...
Irdium
All techniques is efficient in the right situation. Now wether that
situation will apear is a whole different story. In my opinion,
everyone should learn atlesat on throw that works in a way like Ura
Nage. If this is a good ont to choose? Well it mainly depends on what
other throws u have in your baskett. I would not advice anyone to do
any special study of this thorw in order to use it in a competition. A
good and solid O uchi gari or O soto gari is far more likely to be
used. But if u feel this throw may fill a gap and give u a good
oportunity, why not? I'm confident it works. But for me? probably not
I'll just continue trying to get my Hisa guruma to work the way I
want. =)
Irdium
Jigotai
energy by training a technique that you could use a few times in your life,
it is not such an efficient way of wasting your time. All of us have some,
let's say, "strange" technique that we use in the correct moment, a
rētechnique that goes out from us in a natural way. Some of us could have a
technique as Ura-nage. Some of us could have a technique as Hiza guruma. But
what makes that this "strange" techniques goes out it is our knwoledegement
of judo basis. I never practiced Tomoe Nage at uchi-komi and it is not one
of my favourites (personally I doesn´t like sutemis, but it is another
story ) and it is not even an option on my mind. However, I think I did it
twice on my life at randori and twice it was a perfect ippon. Maybe I chose
the correct moment. Maybe I made the perfect timing of the throw. Maybe my
rival was aslept :-) I don't know. What I know is this throw went out from
me. However, I never trained Tomoe Nage at any randori.
Anyway, I have spent 10 years training Uchi-mata... and it doesn't work all
times. :-)
"Irdium" <Ird...@nowere.at.al> escribió en el mensaje
news:s4oi4vsqf2mf1o077...@4ax.com...
Julius Dijksman
situation wil occur when, you never know what technique you wil use in
advance. Ofcause you try to steer your opponent in a situation you can do
the things you are good at. but your opponent has the same strategie at
large. Only his good things and his chose of the moment differ. So as for
the effectifness of training this throw I think it depends on your personal
affection to the technique. As I recall Angel you are a referee too, and
when you are judging you sometimes see these kind of unconventional throws
mostly resulting in an opponent kaken by surprisse. and I think the value of
these Kuzure's lies just in that, no one expects them to happen and
therefore they are effective. I think that every A-class competition judoka
has several of these thechniques.
Fore me this thechnique is to heavy to use. I faile the strength in the
upperbody to bring my opponent up and around to the back unless he or she is
far beneath my wheight cattagory (-95) So I probably will never use it and
use techniques as yoko wakare or some less known te wasa or a mkikomi.
As you said the throws has to be natural for yourself. So I think this one
can be very natural for a strong person with a swifst lifting action.
Best regards
Julius
"Jigotai" <ji...@ono.es> schreef in bericht
news:b2bu7e$1alt5p$1...@ID-113466.news.dfncis.de...
> I agree with you. However, you'll agree with me that to spend time and
> energy by training a technique that you could use a few times in your
life,
> it is not such an efficient way of wasting your time. All of us have some,
> let's say, "strange" technique that we use in the correct moment, a
> rçtechnique that goes out from us in a natural way. Some of us could have
Irdium
<j.dij...@ngi.nl> wrote:
Indeed it is situational. How many has not found them self scoring and
winning on a throw one can get to work good on practice, just because
in the match the situation was perfect?
Steering your oponent is a good way of getting in to those situations
that give u the rigth oportunity. But while competing I has found that
for me, countering my oponents moves and attempts to steer me has
given a far better result than too try to steer my self.On the other
hand I am trying to make him steer the way I want... So whos is doing
what can be a bit diffuse.
To do waht is not expected is a winnig move I agree. And
unconventional throws sure work. I've lost a match or two on them...
As a referee I can't say much, I've been on the courses needed. And
will start "working" as a referee at small competitions this spring to
get my license. So all my experince so far is by own competing and
some coaching. And as while acting as a coach and trainer I do like
when I see thes techniques. And I encourage to use them. But what I
try to get tehm to avoid is to take someone elses techniques and start
using them without first thinking does it suit me? Can I change it
somehow to make it suit me better? Since even if a throw can be the
difference from winning and losing a match. it can for the other
instead change a good match to an unfortunate failure. I've sort of
done that myslef... ;)
For me this throw is not that bad. I to weigh around 95Kg. And I'm not
verry short. 185cm. But I tend to get these tecniques to work somehow,
even if they are a bit low. Though had I been able to choose I would
have tried to work my way to an O soto gari or Tani otoshi.
>> rētechnique that goes out from us in a natural way. Some of us could have
Irdium
Jigotai
several throws we see on shiai doesn't fit with throws we know on gokio, for
example. I heve been the opportunity of being part of an stadistical study
about judo competition. That study, it was done by the University o
Valencia, try to show whien and how often a throw is done during a judo
combat. The part I cooperated was to determine time, score and name of the
techniques done on each combat. As referee, I supposed I wouldn't have
problems to distinguish whta technique was done. But not. Most of the
techniques of a combat can't be distinguish as, let's say, a "pure
tecnique". I had some troubles to find what name of the technique I had to
choose.
What do I mean? That we have to distinguish shiai from the rest of judo, in
the way it is meant to be. If you asked me, it is dificult to "catalogate"
the throw we are talking about. Ura nage, sukui nage, obi otoshi... maybe
other. I don´t know. I think some japanese could call it in a correct way.
Time ago, when young, I used to do in randori a technique a called "De
barai" ( I suppose this technique is used around the world). The movement
was like a "De ashi barai", but the action of sweeping was done with mi own
arm. It was a counter attack against a "De ashi barai" attack, and you had
to coordinate feet movements with sweeping arm action. It was not so
effective (actually I never do this foolish thing), but it was surpresive at
least. It was so recomendable against seoi nage specialist, if you knew when
you had to do the technique. Of course... :-)
Best regards
Angel