Driving a bicycle - road rules?
Eric Takabayashi
> What are the road rules regarding bicycles in Japan?
>
> I'm used to riding on the road and following all the road
> rules regarding stopping, signalling, giving way, etc.
> Back home (Australia), the road rules treat cyclists
> exactly the same as any other road user, and cyclists are
> forbidden from using the footpath.
>
> So far I've had no problems doing this here, or at least no
> more than I would have had back home - these usually take
> the form of people who see red at the very idea of a bike
> taking its place in the traffic.
>
> But what is the exact legal situation?
According to my 2003 edition of RULES OF THE ROAD (English)
"Supervised by THE TRAFFIC BUREAU OF THE NATIONAL POLICE
AGENCY", published by JAPAN AUTOMOBILE FEDERATION, it would
appear that under most circumstances, bicycles must also
operate according to motor vehicle rules, the exceptions
being:
[start]
2. Precautions to take on your bicycle
2-1. Where to ride
1) Bicycles traveling on the road must move along the left
side, except when it's impossible because of construction or
related works.
2) Bicycles may travel inside the pedestrian strip, except
when it would seriously obstruct pedestrian traffic.
Pedestrian strips marked with double white lines [ref to
figure] are closed to bicycles.
3) Ordinary bicycles may travel on the sidewalk which is open
to bicycle and pedestrian traffic [ref to figure of blue
circular sign with pedestrian and bicycle silhouettes].
[end]
There are pages more on what constitutes an "ordinary bicycle"
and how to ride according to their rules. Pedestrians have
right of way on sidewalks.
Go ahead and use the sidewalk if you have to, unless it's too
crowded, or some police tell you otherwise. I prefer the
sidewalk, because drivers aren't careful when passing, and
particularly in turns. You see how many intersections have
those specially marked "bicycle crossings" distinct from
pedestrian crossings (there is also supposed to be some sort
of marker before reaching the intersection, but I've never
seen one in actual practice)? That's one example of where
bicycles are not supposed to be traveling like cars and simply
go through, but pull onto the sidewalk and "cross" the street
because they "must proceed along the zone".
Also, bicycles are supposed to make "two step" turns at
intersections crossing the street then waiting and crossing
the street again to the right, instead of merely turning right
in the rightmost lane like cars.
Bicyclists are also supposed to use hand signals to show their
intention to stop or turn. They are not supposed to thread
their way through traffic to move up the line when cars are
stopped or moving slowly, either.
Bicycles may also cross streets or turn where there is no
indicated crossing zone or crosswalk.
Bicycles should also be walked across railroad crossings.
Those drivers are just ticked off at what they perceive to be
a hindrance to them, the same as when they are stuck behind a
scooter, which has its own speed limit, or drivers who drive
at or under the posted speed limits.
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Eric Takabayashi
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:48:03 +0900, Eric Takabayashi said (and I
> quote):
>
> > 1) Bicycles traveling on the road must move along the left
> > side, except when it's impossible because of construction or
> > related works.
>
> I don't like the sound of that.
Many Japanese rules, laws, customs and traditions do not make practical
sense, which is a separate issue to being merely alien to foreigners not
used to them.
> If the lane isn't wide enough for a
> car to pass safely, I prefer to be in the middle of the lane - that
> way it doesn't encourage drivers to overtake within a lane that is
> too narrow for overtaking.
>
> It also doesn't consider the situation when turning right,
It does. Japanese expect bicycles (and when it is so indicated,
scooters) to cross streets twice, as if they were pedestrians, and NOT
turn right like motor vehicles.
Also, you're supposed to use hand signals to indicate when stopping and
turning, if you don't already have bicycle mounted turn signals.
> where it's
> much safer to position yourself on the right-hand side of the lane.
> This gives room for drivers to overtake on your left, and dissuades
> them from overtaking on your right.
I was simply quoting from RULES OF THE ROAD, which would appear to be
what you were asking for. You can call the police yourself (or be
present at some bicycle safety classes or lectures given in public
schools as I have witnessed) to find out how anal their rules are. For
example, have you ever had to take the written or practical tests to
convert your foreign driver's license and be told you are supposed to be
within 70 cm of the curb when making a left turn (*specifically* to
prevent bicycles and motorbikes from attempting to pass, in addition to
clearing the way for cars behind to pass), or 50 cm of the right line
when making a right turn; else be denied a license on that basis? It
happened to me and others I met, repeatedly.
> > Go ahead and use the sidewalk if you have to,
>
> The sidewalk is too dangerous/slow.
Since I don't ride my bicycle at 40 or 60 kph (even a scooter is
required to be at 30 kph or under), I prefer to be out of reach of buses
and trucks who don't show respect to cyclists and pedestrians, because
mirrors and other things could literally take my head from behind. You
may note Japan does not have many bicycle messengers or people who
appear to be training for bicycle competition on streets mixing with
traffic, to care about more practical riding issues like you do.
> It's safe enough if you travel
> at close to walking speeds (like most cyclists in Japan), but if
> you're going faster then you're just asking for a car to run into you
> at intersections, driveways etc, as drivers aren't expecting
> something travelling that fast to be on the sidewalk.
Most people do not claim Japanese laws and rules make sense. If you
spoke to police like I have, you would hear incredible excuses for their
demands. BTW, drivers who are turning (or changing lanes) are supposed
to actually turn their heads and look back to confirm it is clear behind
before turning as well as give right of way to people in crossing zones,
which at "two step" intersections, even includes scooters and motorbikes
of 50 cc or under. Drivers who are involved in such collisions are
simply more proof people already allowed to be licensed don't obey the
rules, while being so anal denying safe, competent and experienced
drivers licenses.
> > You see how many intersections have
> > those specially marked "bicycle crossings" distinct from
> > pedestrian crossings (there is also supposed to be some sort
> > of marker before reaching the intersection, but I've never
> > seen one in actual practice)? That's one example of where
> > bicycles are not supposed to be traveling like cars and simply
> > go through, but pull onto the sidewalk and "cross" the street
> > because they "must proceed along the zone".
>
> Is that really the law? That sounds dangerous to me - getting out of
> the flow of traffic, moving into a narrow little strip next to
> pedestrians, and then have to get back into the flow of traffic
> again.
If you ever find one of those signs or roadway markers with an arrow
telling bicycles to get off the road, yes, what you are required to do
is follow it. (What is interesting is that police who have seen me go
beyond the motor vehicle stop line at intersections to go to the
pedestrian crossing at the corner to cross the street straight ahead,
have motioned or told me to go back to the stop line.) One interesting
thing RULES OF THE ROAD does not mention is if cyclists are supposed to
dismount and walk their bicycles across pedestrian walkways as is
required in some other places.
> > Also, bicycles are supposed to make "two step" turns at
> > intersections crossing the street then waiting and crossing
> > the street again to the right, instead of merely turning right
> > in the rightmost lane like cars.
>
> Again, is that really the law?
Either the Japan Automobile Federation, "Supervised by THE TRAFFIC
BUREAU OF THE NATIONAL POLICE AGENCY" in consecutive editions, is
pulling something out of their asses, or it is indeed Japanese law,
which I do not hold in much higher regard. It is interesting to note
that what is written in RULES OF THE ROAD and what is demanded at
driving schools or at police operated licensing centers appears to match
up. If anything, what is required at driving schools or licensing
centers overseen by police, is even more demanding than just what is
written in RULES OF THE ROAD.
> That would make riding on the roads
> really inconvenient. If I'm turning right I usually do what cars do
> - stop in the middle of the road and wait for a gap in the traffic.
>
> > Those drivers are just ticked off at what they perceive to be
> > a hindrance to them,
>
> Aye, and it's usually only a perception rather than the reality.
No, something moving slowly on the road such as an elderly woman pushing
a walker or someone in an electric wheelchair is indeed a hindrance to a
driver with somewhere to go. I merely mean that drivers who get pissed
off or behave aggressively do not accept the situation as the law.
Eric Takabayashi
> drivers who are turning (or changing lanes) are supposed
> to actually turn their heads and look back to confirm it is clear behind
> before turning as well as give right of way to people in crossing zones,
> which at "two step" intersections, even includes scooters and motorbikes
> of 50 cc or under.
Also BTW, careless or stupid drivers are why when riding a bicycle, I
actually turn my head and look to the side and back, to confirm the way is
clear before I cross streets, enter intersections, or make turns. ROTR says
cyclists need to confirm the way is clear before starting, stopping, or
turning, as well as use hand signals.
Also, RULES OF THE ROAD *does* say that cyclists are supposed to dismount
and walk at pedestrian crossings if there is no bicycle crossing.
Dave Fossett
> Is that really the law? That sounds dangerous to me - getting out of
> the flow of traffic, moving into a narrow little strip next to
> pedestrians, and then have to get back into the flow of traffic
> again.
The thing is that those cycle crossings will usually only be provided where
the pavement (sidewalk if you're American) is also designated for use by
cyclists, so you shouldn't be cycling on the road there anyway.
As you have probably already noticed, no one pays too much attention to the
rules for cyclists in Japan, but if you want to know where you stand, then,
yes, the rules are pretty much the same as those that apply to motorists. I
bet not many people know that it is an offence to ring your bell to get
pedestrians to move out of the way. As Eric said, pedestrians generally have
right of way. Hand signals are also mandatory, but I have never ever once
seen anyone make a hand signal while cycling.
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan
Eric Takabayashi
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:47:53 +0900, Dave Fossett said (and I quote):
>
> > The thing is that those cycle crossings will usually only be provided where
> > the pavement (sidewalk if you're American) is also designated for use by
> > cyclists, so you shouldn't be cycling on the road there anyway.
>
> Why shouldn't I be cycling on the road there anyway? I *always*
> cycle on the road, *never* the footpath. I find the road is safer.
>
> Is it the law that where there is a footpath that is "designated for
> cyclists" that riding on an adjacent road is forbidden?
2. Precautions to take on your bicycle
2-1. Where to ride
4) Ordinary bicycles must use the bicycle lane whenever it's available, except
when it's impossible because of construction or related works.
If you don't believe it, it's time for you to ask the police yourself.
And if you still don't like it, then it's time for you to realize many Japanese
laws and rules make little sense. As noted, please observe patrolling police
officers on bicycle, for example, do not obey their own laws.
You may even be led to believe the law is shit.
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Baka Dasai wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:47:53 +0900, Dave Fossett said (and I quote):
>>
>> > The thing is that those cycle crossings will usually only be provided where
>> > the pavement (sidewalk if you're American) is also designated for use by
>> > cyclists, so you shouldn't be cycling on the road there anyway.
>>
>> Why shouldn't I be cycling on the road there anyway? I *always*
>> cycle on the road, *never* the footpath. I find the road is safer.
>>
>> Is it the law that where there is a footpath that is "designated for
>> cyclists" that riding on an adjacent road is forbidden?
>
>2. Precautions to take on your bicycle
>
>2-1. Where to ride
>
>4) Ordinary bicycles must use the bicycle lane whenever it's available, except
>when it's impossible because of construction or related works.
>
>If you don't believe it, it's time for you to ask the police yourself.
>
>And if you still don't like it, then it's time for you to realize many Japanese
>laws and rules make little sense. As noted, please observe patrolling police
>officers on bicycle, for example, do not obey their own laws.
>
>You may even be led to believe the law is shit.
I really appreciate you taking the time to answer this guy, Eric. I'm
afraid if I answered him my blood pressure would shoot up high enough
to rupture any aspiring aneurysms I may be harboring.
--
Michael Cash
"Tom Cruise saves late 19th Century Japan from creepy politicians and creeping
Westernization in "The Last Samurai," another Hollywood epic that shows that
nobody embodies the nobility of an exotic foreign culture like a visiting white
guy."
John Beifuss
Eric Takabayashi
> I really appreciate you taking the time to answer this guy, Eric.
It seemed easy enough, as I keep a copy of RULES OF THE ROAD. It is sometimes
updated or comes with an insert. I also receive monthly issues of JAF mate, as I am
a member. It doesn't bother me that he doesn't think it makes sense, because it
doesn't.
> I'm afraid if I answered him my blood pressure would shoot up high enough
> to rupture any aspiring aneurysms I may be harboring.
>
> --
>
> Michael Cash
>
> "Tom Cruise saves late 19th Century Japan from creepy politicians and creeping
> Westernization in "The Last Samurai," another Hollywood epic that shows that
> nobody embodies the nobility of an exotic foreign culture like a visiting white
> guy."
>
> John Beifuss
--
Matthew Endo
> I really appreciate you taking the time to answer this guy, Eric. I'm
> afraid if I answered him my blood pressure would shoot up high enough
> to rupture any aspiring aneurysms I may be harboring.
I second Mike's appreciation. It isn't easy feeding a troll, or one who
won't believe the illogical and sometimes dangerous laws/rules/customs
in Japan.
To the original poster, Michael Gira, how long have you been in Japan?
P.S. To Senor Cash, what do you think of the construction on Yamate
doori with the underground roadway?
--
Matt
ma...@gol.com
John W.
> What are the road rules regarding bicycles in Japan?
>
> I'm used to riding on the road and following all the road rules
> regarding stopping, signalling, giving way, etc. Back home
> (Australia), the road rules treat cyclists exactly the same as any
> other road user, and cyclists are forbidden from using the footpath.
>
> So far I've had no problems doing this here, or at least no more than
> I would have had back home - these usually take the form of people
> who see red at the very idea of a bike taking its place in the
> traffic.
>
assumption that I'm the only person on the road with any.
Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
became a freeway. Hard to explain.
John W.
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
I've been through it so many times and over such a long period that I
am actually on speaking terms with a couple of the construction
guards. Sad, ain't it?
They're supposed to have it wrapped up in about three or four more
years. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. As you know, they
are extending the C2 line of the expressway. That will be a
much-welcomed line. As it is now, use of the expressway coming down
from the ex-Urawa area south involves a bit of a 遠回り to the east.
The surface road is supposed to go to something like 6 lanes. They're
coming right along on demolishing buildings and wrapping up new
construction set farther back from the road. Lots of pedestrian
overpasses have been demolished and new wider ones are going up. It'll
be interesting to see what they do in the area around Naka-Meguro
station. It is currently four lanes, but the outer lanes are pretty
much taken over by illegal parking, so you may as well consider it a
two lane. I strongly doubt that they're going to do the sort of
wholesale demolition necessary to widen the road to six lanes in that
area. I suspect they will just leave it as a bottleneck. Yet another
example of the fine road planning conducted by Mr. Nariyuki Makase.
The amount of junk one has normally expands to fill 100+% of the space
available for it, and I would be surprised if that doesn't also apply
to the New&Improved Yamate-doori when they get it done. The passenger
car traffic probably won't increase nearly as much as the truck
traffic will. I expect that quite a lot of the trucks currently using
Kan-nana and Showa-doori will start using the improved road and the
net result will be the same degree of cluster-fuck, but on a larger
scale.
Eric Takabayashi
> Michael Gira wrote:
> > What are the road rules regarding bicycles in Japan?
> >
> > I'm used to riding on the road and following all the road rules
> > regarding stopping, signalling, giving way, etc. Back home
> > (Australia), the road rules treat cyclists exactly the same as any
> > other road user, and cyclists are forbidden from using the footpath.
> >
> > So far I've had no problems doing this here, or at least no more than
> > I would have had back home - these usually take the form of people
> > who see red at the very idea of a bike taking its place in the
> > traffic.
> >
> I always rode the same way I did in the US, with common sense and an
> assumption that I'm the only person on the road with any.
Where I come from, it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk within
600 feet of a business district.
Which is practically anywhere in town.
Apparently the opposite thinking from Japan.
> Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
> became a freeway. Hard to explain.
You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
Eric Takabayashi
> Michael Cash <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote:
>
> > I really appreciate you taking the time to answer this guy, Eric. I'm
> > afraid if I answered him my blood pressure would shoot up high enough
> > to rupture any aspiring aneurysms I may be harboring.
>
> I second Mike's appreciation. It isn't easy feeding a troll, or one who
> won't believe the illogical and sometimes dangerous laws/rules/customs
> in Japan.
Speaking of road rules, it seems I am the person able to convert their
foreign driving license on the fewest attempts locally.
The Hiroshima Licensing Center is supposed to be notorious locally for
denying people licenses for what seem to be examiners' simple capricious
nature. Some say that they do not give licenses to people on less than the
seventh attempt. Just yesterday, I heard of an unfortunate who has failed
19 times. I have also heard of people who were told they were "jouzu" or
told as I was that my "sousa" was "daijoubu", but denied licenses anyway.
On the other hand, people who have been lectured afterward by the examiner
such as myself, were passed. I still do not know why I was passed, as the
man asked me three times if I did not think it was dangerous to make a left
turn in front of an oncoming truck (it was at a near standstill, so after
some seconds of waiting, I had determined it was safe to turn, but of
course did not tell him so, nor did I dispute any of his claims of previous
errors such as not checking behind when I most assuredly had). I have
ridden with better drivers (who can make turns inside the painted stripe at
the curb, unlike myself) who failed.
I passed in three. The previous low I had heard of was four, by another
American who had also seemed to make mistakes.
Being my birthday today, I went in to get a new license, one of those new
credit card sized ones. It is disappointing. Really bad digital photo,
washed out and worse than back home, and taken from a too low angle. I had
to ask the woman if that was really it, because the license looks like
glossy paper printed with an IBM electric typewriter.
I see Subway has revamped its menu, and reduced their selection. No more
pizza sub. I liked the fries, though. Hiroshima Hondoori has also made an
attempt at Christmas illumination.
I celebrated my new license by taking my 1995 Toyota Caldina wagon (brown)
for a solo drive into the mountains where I used to take my motorcycle
where I can find hairpin turns, continuous yellow stripes and speed dots
across the road, etc. It's been nearly a year and a half since I've last
driven in Japan.
I learned to like my car all over again despite it being brown passing for
a dark gold metallic (200,000 yen cheaper) and having scuffs on the bumper
and scratches on the doors (put there by my wife, I have never run into
anything - she most recently put the car into a pole because she pulled out
while looking at traffic, but not the road to the left). For a 2000 cc
wagon, it has good pickup even uphill and can hold turns, leaning but not
skidding even as my bag, CDs, and a solar battery charger go sliding back
and forth inside. It is also very smooth, and it is quite easy to go 50%
over the speed limit quite without realizing it. I decided that my car was
a good medium, and that something more sporty, or a van, were not
necessary.
At 12:05 a.m., about 50 km from home, I encountered a juvenile wild boar
the size of a large fat dog in the oncoming lane. Then at 12:24, I saw a
graying brown fox with a bad rear leg cross the road at close range.
I often see wildlife while driving in the local mountains. I've seen two
foxes chasing each other along the road, and a wild rabbit sitting next to
a cliffside road.
Sadly, on the way home about 1 a.m., I noticed how the automatic windows on
the left are really slow (had to roll down the windows repeatedly to get
rid of condensation, roadside markers were reading zero or below), and the
passenger window actually stopped working a few times. With the stereo
turned down, I could hear the ugly sounds the motor was making.
I want to ditch the car while it is still worth something and before more
stuff (like the automatic door lock on the right rear side) actually stops
working.
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>"John W." wrote:
>> Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
>> became a freeway. Hard to explain.
>
>You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
Most FREEways don't have TOLL gates.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:17:29 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
> >"John W." wrote:
>
> >> Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
> >> became a freeway. Hard to explain.
> >
> >You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
>
> Most FREEways don't have TOLL gates.
Oh, must have been in the US.
Some Tokyo University student named Tanaka allegedly did it in Hiroshima during a
TV show.
> --
>
> Michael Cash
>
> "Tom Cruise saves late 19th Century Japan from creepy politicians and creeping
> Westernization in "The Last Samurai," another Hollywood epic that shows that
> nobody embodies the nobility of an exotic foreign culture like a visiting white
> guy."
>
> John Beifuss
--
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Michael Cash wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:17:29 +0900, Eric Takabayashi
>> <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>>
>> >"John W." wrote:
>>
>> >> Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
>> >> became a freeway. Hard to explain.
>> >
>> >You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
>>
>> Most FREEways don't have TOLL gates.
>
>Oh, must have been in the US.
When they have toll gates, they're more often called expressways or
tollways.
In another of those odd quirks of the English language, freeways are
classified as "restricted access".
Drew Hamilton
>Speaking of road rules, it seems I am the person able to convert their
>foreign driving license on the fewest attempts locally.
Speaking of converting foreign driver's licenses,
How does one get an MT license?
I understand generally it means that you have to take your test in
a car with a manual-shift transmission. Problem is, how do you
practice for it? I've not seen any manual-shift cars for rent in the
rental agencies, and I don't think you can buy a car without being
licenced.
I don't think the first time I ever drive a right-hand-drive MT
car should be on the driving test (well, I guess then I'd have an
excuse for failing the first couple of tests), so what have other
people done about this?
>I passed in three. The previous low I had heard of was four, by another
>American who had also seemed to make mistakes.
Do you get to take the tests on the same day, or do you have to
keep coming back?
--
- awh
http://www.awh.org/
Drew Hamilton
>Speaking of converting foreign driver's licenses,
>
>How does one get an MT license?
To follow up my own question with another question:
I've read conflicting information online about whether I would
even be required to take a test to convert my license.
Some sites claim that Canada is on a list of countries whose
license holders can just trade in their license for a Japanese
one. Other sites claim that only those countries where traffic is
on the left can trade in their licenses.
Anyone have either the latest information, or even the name of the
organization responsible for driver licensing in Japan?
Ryan Ginstrom
"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:3FDDDE99...@yahoo.co.jp...
> "John W." wrote:
> > Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
> > became a freeway. Hard to explain.
>
> You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
Assuming he meant expressway, there are some places where suddenly you're on
that elevated thingy with no escape, then hit the toll gate a few km later.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
Eric Takabayashi
> Eric Takabayashi <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> >Speaking of road rules, it seems I am the person able to convert their
> >foreign driving license on the fewest attempts locally.
>
> Speaking of converting foreign driver's licenses,
>
> How does one get an MT license?
>
> I understand generally it means that you have to take your test in
> a car with a manual-shift transmission.
Yes, it sucked. I had not driven manual since about 1989, when I started
working summers at a car rental company, and both my parents stopped buying
manual transmission cars.
> Problem is, how do you practice for it?
Drive your friend's car off public roads, or do like I did, and spend a few
hours (preferably one at a time or you'll just be wasting money if you fail
the test) at Japanese driving school. Hate it as I might, I suggest driving
school because it is the easiest way for the average person to be told what
the anal examiners want. I credit the instructor during my final time at
the driving school for telling me what I needed to do. The other instructor
I had been with the previous two times was very nice, but not strict
enough. He gave me advice, but he was not telling me what to do.
Or drive illegally, like I see many foreigners do.
And if you can, walk the course to memorize it. That's about the only way
you'll be able to position yourself in the lanes to set up for the lane
changes and turns ahead of time. Those three seconds of signal before a
lane change, and keeping within 70 cm of the curb or 50 cm of the line for
a lane change or right turn for at least 30 meters before, can be a killer.
> I've not seen any manual-shift cars for rent in the
> rental agencies, and I don't think you can buy a car without being
> licenced.
Yes you can.
> I don't think the first time I ever drive a right-hand-drive MT
> car should be on the driving test (well, I guess then I'd have an
> excuse for failing the first couple of tests), so what have other
> people done about this?
I tried and failed, just like that, in my first time in a right hand drive,
and my first time in a manual car in about seven years.
> >I passed in three. The previous low I had heard of was four, by another
> >American who had also seemed to make mistakes.
>
> Do you get to take the tests on the same day, or do you have to
> keep coming back?
You have to keep coming back. I could have passed sooner (if not in fewer
attempts) if I had been allowed to try all day, which I would have been
willing to pay.
It's one of the things which burned me up, in addition to losing an entire
day and about 7,500 yen for the test. The examiner tells me that my "sousa"
was "daijoubu" but fails me anyway because I didn't keep close enough to
the curbs on the left and the center lines on the right, then back inside,
he opens up the book and asks if I'd like to come back the following week.
If I was so bad (and he said I wouldn't be practicing, as I had no
international permit), why ask if I wanted to come back the very next week?
Contrary to what I had been led to believe my first time at the examination
center, they didn't convert my motorcycle license along with the manual
transmission license. I had to go back for more testing, and only held two
days a week. More driving school. Well, I hadn't had experience picking up
fallen bikes or pushing them in figure eights since Motorcycle Safety
Foundation days, anyway.
Eric Takabayashi
> In article <p3m1b1-...@urd.awh.org>, Drew Hamilton <a...@awh.org> wrote:
> >Speaking of converting foreign driver's licenses,
> >
> >How does one get an MT license?
>
> To follow up my own question with another question:
>
> I've read conflicting information online about whether I would
> even be required to take a test to convert my license.
>
> Some sites claim that Canada is on a list of countries whose
> license holders can just trade in their license for a Japanese
> one. Other sites claim that only those countries where traffic is
> on the left can trade in their licenses.
That's what I've read recently, thanks to those
http://www.japandriverslicense.com guys who advertised here once.
from their FAQ:
Q. I am a Canadian and I first heard that there actually is a reciprocal
agreement between Canada and Japan. I then heard that Japan was not following
this agreement and then I heard that as of February 1st 2003 the agreement is
now being followed and now Canadians do not need to take a written or road
test. Whats going on, eh? Can you provide me with a staight answer on this
please ?
A. You are right, there was a reciprocal agreement between Japan and four
provinces of Canada. You are also correct that Japan was not following this
agreement, however as of February 1st, 2003 Canadians, from all provinces no
longer need to take a written or road test to convert their license.
You lucky dog. I strongly suggest picking up RULES OF THE ROAD from your local
JAF to see about their quirky rules. You might spend some time at driving
school anyway, to get used to right hand drive cars. At least once during trips
home, I'll either turn on the wipers going for the turn signal, start the car
by turning into the wrong lane (empty of course or I'd notice), or do both. The
driving school I went to used Toyota Comforts, which is the same type as the
local taxis. At the Licensing Center, I twice had to use Mitsubishi Lancers,
which were much lighter, had way too much play on the clutch and jerked and
lurched horribly if the shift was not almost perfect.
> Anyone have either the latest information, or even the name of the
> organization responsible for driver licensing in Japan?
You can talk to your local police at the station, which is where you'd be
converting your license if licensed in one of the eligible countries.
Drew Hamilton
>Or drive illegally, like I see many foreigners do.
Nah, I already had one experience with Japanese authorities and
that was enough for me.
>Contrary to what I had been led to believe my first time at the examination
>center, they didn't convert my motorcycle license along with the manual
>transmission license. I had to go back for more testing, and only held two
>days a week. More driving school. Well, I hadn't had experience picking up
>fallen bikes or pushing them in figure eights since Motorcycle Safety
>Foundation days, anyway.
I heard that picking up a fallen bike was part of the conversion
test. Nobody ever taught me how to pick up a fallen bike or push
it in a Figure 8 in my motorcycle safety course. Maybe I'll get
lucky and my bike license will transfer right over like my car
license.
Drew Hamilton
>school anyway, to get used to right hand drive cars. At least once during trips
>home, I'll either turn on the wipers going for the turn signal, start the car
>by turning into the wrong lane (empty of course or I'd notice), or do both. The
I drove a right hand drive car this last trip to Japan. Turned on
the wipers several times when going for the turn signal, and
couldn't get the hang of where the gear shift level was
(column-mounted) to get the car out of park. But having to shift
a manual with my left hand would be a bit weird.
Are the gears in the same place as in left-hand drive cars (ie,
1st is left) or is 1st on the inside?
>local taxis. At the Licensing Center, I twice had to use Mitsubishi Lancers,
>which were much lighter, had way too much play on the clutch and jerked and
>lurched horribly if the shift was not almost perfect.
That's why Japan's practice of having you use their cars for the
test seems a bit weird. Nobody drives like a genius sitting in a
different car for the first time -- it takes a couple hours
driving to really get a feel for the clutch, and the brake, and
for how much gas you need to give it, and how the steering wheel
will react.
On the other hand, it is a good test of how the person performs in
an unfamiliar car, something which I suspect that licence holders
in Japan do more often than ones in North America.
Michael Cash
<gins...@hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
Although road signage in Japan can be screwy, I have never encountered
a location like that where it wasn't clearly indicated that the road
was a toll road *before* you lose the chance to avoid it.
Michael Cash
belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>Eric Takabayashi <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
I thought picking up the bike was only for the large bike license. I
may be mistaken about that.
A couple of months ago I had the joy of watching one of the
lane-splitting kamikaze idiots in Tokyo go ass over teakettle. He was
very fortunate that there was no traffic coming from the other
direction. Otherwise he would have been an EX- lane-splitting kamikaze
idiot. Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that he was riding one
of the larger bikes. One of the bikes you're required to demonstrate
that you can lift to an upright position.
He demonstrated that ability admirably at the accident scene. He
lifted the bike, which looked to be pretty extensively damaged on the
side that had met the asphalt. He forgot to stop when the bike reached
an upright position, though, and unceremoniously dropped it on the
previously UNdamaged opposite side. Maybe it was some sort of inborn
Japanese need to restore a sense of balance and harmony or something.
I dunno. (Yes, I have jpegs).
I think I already told about watching a traffic cop try to execute a
superfast U-turn from a dead stop. He dropped his cop bike. It was
really a shame, because it would have been a way kewl maneuver if he
hadn't fucked it up. (Yes, I have jpegs).
Eric Takabayashi
> Eric Takabayashi <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> >school anyway, to get used to right hand drive cars. At least once during trips
> >home, I'll either turn on the wipers going for the turn signal, start the car
> >by turning into the wrong lane (empty of course or I'd notice), or do both. The
>
> I drove a right hand drive car this last trip to Japan. Turned on
> the wipers several times when going for the turn signal, and
> couldn't get the hang of where the gear shift level was
> (column-mounted) to get the car out of park. But having to shift
> a manual with my left hand would be a bit weird.
>
> Are the gears in the same place as in left-hand drive cars (ie,
> 1st is left) or is 1st on the inside?
Yeah. Even the pedals are placed the same. Why just the hand controls, huh?
> >local taxis. At the Licensing Center, I twice had to use Mitsubishi Lancers,
> >which were much lighter, had way too much play on the clutch and jerked and
> >lurched horribly if the shift was not almost perfect.
>
> That's why Japan's practice of having you use their cars for the
> test seems a bit weird. Nobody drives like a genius sitting in a
> different car for the first time -- it takes a couple hours
> driving to really get a feel for the clutch, and the brake, and
> for how much gas you need to give it, and how the steering wheel
> will react.
True. But then for my unlimited motorcycle license back home, I rented a local
motorcycle shop's 110 cc after practicing on 250s with the Motorcycle Safety
Foundation. Perhaps Japan would like to make sure of what a driver can handle. Odd
the center in Hiroshima chooses to use compact cars.
> On the other hand, it is a good test of how the person performs in
> an unfamiliar car, something which I suspect that licence holders
> in Japan do more often than ones in North America.
I hear great things about Evolution turbo Mitsubishi Lancers. Hard to imagine how
that is with so much play on the clutch. I'm sure it's light enough to handle
really well if the suspension is not too soft.
Eric Takabayashi
I wish I could do stuff like that. Only for lessons or testing do I have to ride
in figure eights or whip bikes around turns. I would hate to try that with my own
motorcycles lest I drop them.
Eric Takabayashi
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:06:50 +0900, "Ryan Ginstrom"
> <gins...@hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
> >
> >"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
> >news:3FDDDE99...@yahoo.co.jp...
> >> "John W." wrote:
> >> > Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
> >> > became a freeway. Hard to explain.
> >>
> >> You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
> >
> >Assuming he meant expressway, there are some places where suddenly you're on
> >that elevated thingy with no escape, then hit the toll gate a few km later.
>
> Although road signage in Japan can be screwy, I have never encountered
> a location like that where it wasn't clearly indicated that the road
> was a toll road *before* you lose the chance to avoid it.
Suzuki and Tanaka had a bicycle race down Honshu relying on the hospitality of
strangers with the same surnames as themselves (Suzuki, a student at Waseda, once
went without food and slept outdoors in the oncoming winter cold for eight days,
losing about six kg in the process before someone took pity on him and let him in
their home. Meanwhile, Tanaka from Tokyo U. always had a good time.). Tanaka would
be so engrossed in looking at the ground directly under him while riding bent over
that he once ran into the rear end of an idled car ahead of him in addition to
suddenly finding himself on the highway in Hiroshima and stopped by police.
Michael Cash
<eta...@yahoo.co.jp> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
If you happen to know where the 交通機動隊 in your area is stationed,
try to catch a glimpse of them some morning when all the motorsickle
cops are taking their bikes out and going through their warm-up
exercises prior to going out on patrol. It's pretty neat.
Dan Rempel
Oh, do post, please. BTW, now that finals are over I'll try one last
time to fix my turntable and get you some rare steel guitar I've got
here: Red Rhodes, early Emmons, stuff like that.
Dan
Ryan Ginstrom
"Michael Cash" <mike...@sunfield.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:u0pttvofqssd7fqv5...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:06:50 +0900, "Ryan Ginstrom"
> <gins...@hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
on
> >that elevated thingy with no escape, then hit the toll gate a few km
later.
>
> Although road signage in Japan can be screwy, I have never encountered
> a location like that where it wasn't clearly indicated that the road
> was a toll road *before* you lose the chance to avoid it.
Hey, nobody said anything about signs. Sure, there are those green signs at
the two places I know of.
But they're in yingyong anyway.
--
Regards,
Ryan Ginstrom
John W.
noun.)There was english on the sign. Some numbers. Does that count as
English?
John W.
John W.
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:06:50 +0900, "Ryan Ginstrom"
> <gins...@hotmail.com> belched the alphabet and kept on going with:
>
>
>>"Eric Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
>>news:3FDDDE99...@yahoo.co.jp...
>>
>>>"John W." wrote:
>>>
>>>>Having said that, I once wound up on a freeway by mistake. The road just
>>>>became a freeway. Hard to explain.
>>>
>>>You missed seeing the toll gate going in?
>>
>>Assuming he meant expressway, there are some places where suddenly you're on
>>that elevated thingy with no escape, then hit the toll gate a few km later.
>
>
> Although road signage in Japan can be screwy, I have never encountered
> a location like that where it wasn't clearly indicated that the road
> was a toll road *before* you lose the chance to avoid it.
>
the words 'Kobe' on the sign and followed it. Perfectly normal road with
sidewalks and everything. Then the sidewalks were gone and I went over a
rise, where there was a toll booth. Sure I saw it in advance, but by
that time I didn't have a hell of a lot of choices. Asked the guy if I
could go up the steps *he* uses, was told no.
BTW, he took a toll from me. Same as a motorcycle, IIRC.
John W.
Jason Cormier
Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> I passed in three. The previous low I had heard of was four, by another
> American who had also seemed to make mistakes.
Is this the norm a most testing centres? I passed my first time in Mie
(along with a number of other friends) and two of my friends passed the
first time in Aichi.
Eric Takabayashi
I'm told Okayama is not difficult.
Hiroshima is strict. I've seen and heard of them fail people for not being
70 cm from the curb during left turns, or not 50 cm from the center line
during right turns, for at least 30 m before the turn. I was failed twice
for it myself. Three seconds of turn signal is also required before a lane
change. It would not be possible for someone who had not experienced the
test before or memorized the course to set themselves up properly to do
those things in time. The examiner (I had the same man for all three
attempts) said he would tell me what maneuvers to take, but in fact if
someone had to be told to do something like turn left, it was already too
late.
The examiners tell people if they hit anything (like a curb), that they
should stop immediately, back up (even if on the "road" part of the course
with other cars) and try it over. They do not deduct points and allow up to
three chances to do it, the examiner claimed. Yet he failed a Brazilian
woman on her fourth attempt at the driving test who seemed to drive
perfectly (I was riding in back and impressed by her ability to shift
smoothly and really keep the car to the inside of a turn) for simply
hesitating (I saw no such thing, nor did she even stop) during the S curve.
And the center also lied about giving me my motorcycle license along with
converting the automobile license.
Did you go to driving school first? Did they care that you were Canadian
back then?
John W.
few weeks later, but I passed the automatic test first time around. (I
didn't know there was a different license when I first went; most likely
somebody told me at some point.)
John W.
Jason Cormier
Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
> Did you go to driving school first?
No.
> Did they care that you were Canadian back then?
I have no idea. There were a number of nationalities present during the
afternoon testing that day. The only one who did not pass was quite young
(18 or 19) and did not drive with any confidence.
Eric Takabayashi
> On 12/30/03 18:55, in article 3FF2108B...@yahoo.co.jp, "Eric
> Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>
> > Did you go to driving school first?
>
> No.
>
> > Did they care that you were Canadian back then?
>
> I have no idea.
Did they ask you a number of questions about how licenses are given out
where you come from, such as how from what age people can get licenses, how
many questions are on the written test, what is done during the road test
and how long it lasts?
> There were a number of nationalities present during the
> afternoon testing that day. The only one who did not pass was quite young
> (18 or 19) and did not drive with any confidence.
I was fine at driving school (the instructor asked me why I was there after
the first hour), but was nervous the first two times at the licensing
center.
Confidence didn't help the other people, some of whom were much better than
I was.
Jason Cormier
Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>>> Did they care that you were Canadian back then?
>>
>> I have no idea.
>
> Did they ask you a number of questions about how licenses are given out
> where you come from, such as how from what age people can get licenses, how
> many questions are on the written test, what is done during the road test
> and how long it lasts?
They didn't ask any questions. They took our application forms; our money;
and our proof of being licensed in our home country. They did a vision test.
They had us write the written portion then told us to go have lunch and walk
the course to see what there was out there. After lunch, we took turns
riding in the back seat while the preceding person was tested then drove it
ourselves. After everyone was done, there was a short (15mins) delay after
which we were brought into a room and told if we passed or failed.
>> There were a number of nationalities present during the
>> afternoon testing that day. The only one who did not pass was quite young
>> (18 or 19) and did not drive with any confidence.
>
> I was fine at driving school (the instructor asked me why I was there after
> the first hour), but was nervous the first two times at the licensing
> center.
>
> Confidence didn't help the other people, some of whom were much better than
> I was.
This boy was jerky and unsure in almost every aspect of his driving. (I sat
in the back during his turn.) Personally, I was surprised the tester even
let him finish. In my books, he had failed within 30 seconds of starting.
I still don't get the ranting about the testing centres. In both prefectures
in which I lived, the foreigners generally had no problems getting a license
and none were every told to go to driving school....and Mie and Aichi ain't
exactly freewheeling, open-minded prefectures either. They're no different
than most of the prefectures in which you guys live.
Eric Takabayashi
> They didn't ask any questions.
Then where you've lived is quite different. For example, the man I gave my
application to took over 20 minutes looking over my documents and had a prepared
worksheet, which I saw later, in which he calculated how long I had been in my
home country while licensed, as if me driving since 16 (I have that
documentation, and got my first passport at 20) and leaving the country at 24
were not proof enough I had been licensed in the country for over 90 days. Then
I was asked the questions I have mentioned regarding how licenses are given at
home. He also took my home license into the back office for awhile as if he had
to check it out somehow. At the driving school, they copied my student record
after a couple of hours of instruction (despite the record being stamped for
internal use only), and told me that I would need such proof at the licensing
center because they require two hours of instruction minimum (at the licensing
center, they claimed they did not need such a copy). I was asked at another
driving school that I decided not go to, how many hours I was told by the
licensing center to attend before trying the test. When I said I had been told
nothing, they made a phone call. On my third attempt, I also met a Taiwanese
woman on her sixth attempt at the test, whom the examiner had asked if she had
been to driving school and for how long, was called a liar (I did not see, but
heard from someone else she had been nervous), and asked to bring her receipts
next time.
> They took our application forms; our money;
> and our proof of being licensed in our home country. They did a vision test.
Hiroshima does vision tests after passing.
> They had us write the written portion then told us to go have lunch and walk
> the course to see what there was out there. After lunch, we took turns
> riding in the back seat while the preceding person was tested then drove it
> ourselves. After everyone was done,
Hiroshima has tests morning and afternoon, up to three people with foreign
licenses at a time, despite it being a fairly large place. I saw 50 to 100
students from the driving schools at one time looking over the course or coming
out of lecture to pay the fees and be photographed.
Do you normally keep within 70 cm of the curb when turning left (even if that
requires going inside the white stripe), keep within 50 cm of the center line
when turning right, for at least 30 m before the turn (also signaling), and also
confirm the rear is clear (turn head to look back) before making your signal for
three seconds before a lane change, as is required at the Hiroshima Licensing
Center (the examiner has English copies of the pages with the requirements ready
to show the applicant in the car after the failed test), and is instructed in
the driving schools? Did you stop at the simulated railroad crossing (if any
during the test in that area), look both ways and roll down the window to listen
and confirm the way is clear before proceeding across, as is instructed in
Hiroshima?
Or was such never mentioned for your test? If the center failed people for not
handing a manual transmission well or not driving with confidence, because they
doubted such people would be safe on the road, I'd understand that, but I never
heard that. In Hiroshima they really do tell people they say drive well ("jouzu"
or "sousa ga daijoubu") that they fail because they are not within 70 cm of the
curb or 50 cm of the center line for 30 m before turns, or that they do not
signal early enough (30 m before a turn, or three seconds before a lane change -
two or three lane changes are required before the first turn, and signaling in
time a bit of a feat, as the course starts with a pedestrian crossing and a
curve, where lane changes are forbidden). Even the instructor at driving school
had to point out there wasn't enough time to signal after the curve. There was
also a simulated construction area immediately followed by a left turn. This is
precisely the kind of reason the course had to be experienced or memorized
beforehand to position the car and signal in time. The course for those with
foreign licenses was in itself quite easy. It could be driven in less than five
minutes.).
> I still don't get the ranting about the testing centres. In both prefectures
> in which I lived, the foreigners generally had no problems getting a license
> and none were every told to go to driving school....and Mie and Aichi ain't
> exactly freewheeling, open-minded prefectures either.
But they're still different from places where people (including experienced
drivers and Japanese who've driven abroad) rant about licensing centers.
> They're no different than most of the prefectures in which you guys live.
What you've described proves where you've lived is quite different from the
places where people rant about driving centers, as is the continued or growing
demand for places like
http://www.japandriverslicense.com
and driving schools where instructors speak foreign languages. I don't believe
drivers in general differ so much in skill by where in Japan they take their
test.
Raj Feridun
wrote:
>I still don't get the ranting about the testing centres. In both prefectures
>in which I lived, the foreigners generally had no problems getting a license
>and none were every told to go to driving school....and Mie and Aichi ain't
>exactly freewheeling, open-minded prefectures either. They're no different
>than most of the prefectures in which you guys live.
How can you say that the prefectures you lived and/or took the test in
are no different than the prefectures those of us with Menkyo Center
horror stories live in having not actually lived in ours? I can only
assume that the others in here reporting extreme hassles in getting
their Japanese license are telling the truth about their experiences.
For myself I won't repeat my whole long story but because of some
problems with re-entry stamps in my passport I was denied even TAKING
the test for switching from my US license for several years until I
turned up enough "proof" for them that I was eligible. After that the
instructors here in Matsuyama made it clear to me that they didn't
even think Americans should be eligible to switch licenses since our
tests at home are so "weak" in their opinion. Then I failed the first
time but passed on the second try of the road test but it was close.
I've never dealt with a more rock-headed bunch of policy-loving
bureaucrats then the ex-cops who run the Menkyo Center. That INCLUDES
the rock-headed, policy-loving bureaucrats at the Immigrations
Department and the rock-headed, policy-loving police who were getting
ready to send me for hard time the second time they caught me driving
on an expired International Driver's Permit (a few years back before I
finally managed to get my Japanese license.).
I say be glad that your own experiences are happy ones. You're
fortunate.
Raj
Jason Cormier
Takabayashi" <eta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:
>> I still don't get the ranting about the testing centres. In both prefectures
>> in which I lived, the foreigners generally had no problems getting a license
>> and none were every told to go to driving school....and Mie and Aichi ain't
>> exactly freewheeling, open-minded prefectures either.
>
> But they're still different from places where people (including experienced
> drivers and Japanese who've driven abroad) rant about licensing centers.
The testing results are certainly different but that's not what I'm talking
about .Please don't try to tell me that Hiroshima-ken, Osaka, Tokyo, etc.
are somehow much less open-minded about foreigners than Aichi and Mie. It's
obviously something else leading to the difference in results.
Eric Takabayashi
It's not about being foreign. It's about the country where people, including
Japanese, got their licenses, and what the centers think about that place's
national driving standards if any. I am very satisfied with the explanation at
Japan Driver's License.
> It's obviously something else leading to the difference in results.
Would you like to take a guess?
For example, are drivers holding foreign licenses going for the test in Aichi and
Mie much better than drivers testing elsewhere? During the test, (of course it is
not how most people really drive on the road) did they all keep within 70 cm of
the curb for at least 30 m before a left turn (to prevent bicycles and scooters
from passing on the left, and also allowing cars to pass to the right, though the
driver must still turn their head to look to the left rear to confirm the way is
clear before turning) while signaling, or keep within 50 cm of the inside or
center line for a right turn? Did they turn their heads to confirm the rear was
clear before using the turn signal for three seconds before a lane change? Did
they roll down the window and listen for any oncoming trains while stopped at the
railroad crossing?
Please keep in mind I was not claiming to be good. I still don't know why I was
passed, while I have seen better drivers who've made more attempts (and also been
to driving school) failed for no explanation at all.