Has Big Labor outlived its usefulness?
Comrade
> minimum wage
when we have a living wage, maybe
and a WPA safety net
but we will have to have solidarity to protect it
so IWW.org and CPUSA.org will still serve purposes as with USWA, UAW ,
AFL-CIO, etc.
--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises
Martin Luther King Jr said
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true
meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all
men are created equal."
and their creed became, I REFUSE TO DREAM
and when we REFUSE TO DREAM? when we go on a strike? when we propose
laissez faire with respect to what we control? WELL, you see the story of
laissez faire changes quick, immediately there is not a hands-off policy,
and we are forced back to work, via anti-strike legislations, Taft-Hartley
acts, etc., not only are we not allowed to dream our dream, we are forced
to keep dreaming their's, we are niether allowed to dream or not dream,
and such is how Pharoah robs a man of his asylum in himself, and sets up
Pharoah as man's only asylum (http://www.mysolution.ws/cabal.htm)
Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.
"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick
Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784
"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)
"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES
"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)
(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)
"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29
"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15
"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
Comrade
> Yes.
blow me, aristocrat
Eugene A
news:0c6a0ee688384c61...@free.teranews.com:
> Does anyone besides me think that labor unions have run their course
> and are no longer needed? With child labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage,
> workman's comp, etc., labor unions are largely obsolete.
Absolutley. #1 reason that union exist today is to negotiate higher
salaries. When you start having crane operators in California earn $120
grand a year something should tell you that its wrong.
When you start to overpay your workers cheaper steel, or any product,
starts coming in from abroad. I think unions can stay so long as they keep
protecting the workers rights, but should not have the power to strike
becuase of higher wages. That's just extorsion.
Comrade
> Omphalos <omph...@wp.pl> wrote in
> news:0c6a0ee688384c61...@free.teranews.com:
>
>> Does anyone besides me think that labor unions have run their course
>> and are no longer needed? With child labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage,
>> workman's comp, etc., labor unions are largely obsolete.
>
> Absolutley.
STFU aristocrat DAINTY http://www.mysolution.ws/think.htm
allan
apparently you feel that bonus in excess of a million dollars are acceptable,
and why are you a coward that does not use the correct email address and do not want replies to your comments
Are you so afraid people can give you a correct responses that challenges your ideals.
Comrade
> Sure ya do. You claim that corporations largely ignore laws and
> regulations. Can you back that up?
look at them all go to jail
D.L.E
"Eugene A" <lorus77-...@nospam.mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:c1909e9f8012484777afedeb611cadb0@TeraNews...
> Omphalos <omph...@wp.pl> wrote in
> news:0c6a0ee688384c61...@free.teranews.com:
>
> > Does anyone besides me think that labor unions have run their course
> > and are no longer needed? With child labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage,
> > workman's comp, etc., labor unions are largely obsolete.
>
> Absolutley. #1 reason that union exist today is to negotiate higher
> salaries. When you start having crane operators in California earn $120
> grand a year something should tell you that its wrong.
Lets be honest when you say 120K per year that is NOT for working fifty 40
hour weeks with two weeks vacation (not to mention sick days,and paid
holidays that most office personal get). NO it is working LOTS OF OVERTIME
HOURS. I work construction and can tell you that when operators are making
that kind of money they are putting in 20-40+ hours per week in OVERTIME
(6-10s to 7-16s). You seem awful quick to say that some one in the trades
should not make that kind of money. You will find that most of these workers
have trained and gone to school for over 4 years to get these "CUSH JOBS".
Can you say that right this minute you could get into a 300ft tower crane
and SAFELY move 20,000 lbs of cargo over your mom, wife, kids and car.
These people do this day in and day out. Look around any major building
being built and look at the amount of supplies that are moved. In a downtown
area these will have to be "flown" over the street. I want someone that
knows what their doing when they are "flying" loads near me. I may be wrong
but I do not belive that most CEO of Fortune 500 companies could do the job
right this minute either. Yet you do not seem to have a problem with the
kind of money they make. Do you want to have a loved one near someone moving
a 10 ton load who is making minimum wage? After all you state that unions do
nothing but drive up costs.
> When you start to overpay your workers cheaper steel, >or any product,
starts coming in from abroad.
What do you consider OVER PAYING? Minimum wage in this country is more than
accountants make in India ($5000 annual wages). Do you feel that to keep a
job in this country we should work for $2.50 per hour ( $5,000 per year
based on 50- 40 hour weeks). Do you think that a mechanical engineer in this
country should work for $3.00 per hour ($6,000 yearly)? These are jobs
require 4 years in college. That is sure going to let a lot of people buy
cars, clothing, nice houses...you know the things that them damn unions want
for their members. The above numbers are from TIME Aug 4,2003 (Vol 162, No5,
page39)
> I think unions can stay so long as they keep
> protecting the workers rights, but should not have the >power to strike
> becuase of higher wages. That's just extorsion.
Would you be so kind as to give examples of when you feel a union should
allow their workers to strike?
Eugene A
@reader10.wxs.nl:
> apparently you feel that bonus in excess of a million dollars are
> acceptable
Of course I do. What do you have against excessive bonuses?
If you want to reply to me, reply here. No need for emails.
Eugene A
@twister.austin.rr.com:
> After all you state that unions do
> nothing but drive up costs.
>
They do. Workers that put in overtime are not the unions. Unions are semi-
socialist orginizations that demand equal pay that is not based on
performnce. At least that is the message they have managed to create for
themselves.
I especially liked how Verizon union spent its money on denouncing Verizon
brass that gave itself raises. Duh. They are the ones to decide the
monetary policy of the company. If you do not like it - work somewhere
else. It is not USSR where your movement from job to job is constricted.
Eugene A
news:bgc04k$qui$3...@reader10.wxs.nl:
> No they are need now more than ever, with out them the Us will end up
> a slave state, as well as a police state that is being set up now. as
> we write
The concept of labor union by definition is socialist, which in itself is a
concept of a police state.
D.L.E
> "D.L.E" <dea...@elp.rr.com> wrote in news:FTlWa.141839$xg5.55978
> @twister.austin.rr.com:
>
> > After all you state that unions do
> > nothing but drive up costs.
> >
>
> They do. Workers that put in overtime are not the unions. Unions are semi-
> socialist orginizations that demand equal pay that is not based on
> performnce. At least that is the message they have managed to create for
> themselves.
Workers band together so they can get better wages for the group. This is no
different then a group of farms (or other industries) forming a trade group
to buy supplies in bulk and at lower prices or to sell their products at
higher prices.
You will find that in most labor contracts the wages required are a minimum
for any given job discription. This generaly does not prevent a company from
paying a worker more if they feel that worker derserves more.
>
> I especially liked how Verizon union spent its money on denouncing Verizon
> brass that gave itself raises. Duh. They are the ones to decide the
> monetary policy of the company. If you do not like it - work somewhere
> else. It is not USSR where your movement from job to job is constricted.
I note that you did not answer the questions that I asked in my previous
post. So I will ask then again
1) When a person works 20-40+ hours of overtime a week do they derserve to
make $100K+ per year?
2) Are you qualified to do their job?
3) Would you work those type hours for minimum wage?
4) Would you want a loved one around some minimum wage earner that is
running heavy equipment?
5) What do you consider excessive wages?
6) Should white collar workers with college degrees be paid less then $4.00
per hour as in India?
7a) Should unions be allowed to speak out aginist multi-million dollar
bonuses to a CEO if a company has downsized or out-sourced jobs of those
they represent?
7b) When should a union be allowed to strike?
I await your answers.
D.L.E
someone at NRTW to write your replies for you? Could it be that your
answers do not stand up to reason? Don't worry I am not gonna hurt you
after all I am just a lowly union construction worker. Who knows one of us
could even change the others mind on why unions are still nessary.
"D.L.E" <dea...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:y5EWa.141451$hV.91...@twister.austin.rr.com...