Places in Tokyo for the moral traveller?
ifignow
different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
Tokyo today feels like a foreign country because people here are so
obsessed with fashion, drinking, and sex. I'm not into that at all --
I am not a religious person, but I've spent the past ten years among
software professionals in Silicon Valley and elsewhere, plus I am
going to graduate school, where the majority of students are from
places like rural China and have probably never been to a bar in
their life. It's sort of like religious training, so this party
culture feels pretty offensive to me. Are there things to see here for people who aren't into the shallowness?
Fabian
Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at the deep end - you'll crack
your head on the bottom.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Dave Fossett
> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
> Tokyo today feels like a foreign country because people here are so
> obsessed with fashion, drinking, and sex. I'm not into that at all --
Aren't you the guy that was asking about laser pointers a while back for use
on your forays into Roppongi? Seems an odd destination for someone not
interested in fashion, drinking, or sex.
--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan
ifignow
"Dave Fossett" <re...@via.newsgroup> wrote in message
news:PAoJb.840$dl4...@news1.dion.ne.jp...
> "ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote:
> Aren't you the guy that was asking about laser pointers a while back for
use
> on your forays into Roppongi? Seems an odd destination for someone not
> interested in fashion, drinking, or sex.
I was looking for clean fun there, though the pickings are slim.
Cindy
He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go on a
Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour. It's also a pity that he has to leave
the country on the 13th. He would miss all the beautiful college girls
in kimono on the 15th. Oh, no, I don't think he will miss it because
after all, Seijin-no-hi is a fashion and drinking alcohol day as well.
Dave Fossett
> He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go on a
> Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour.
But knowing his luck, it would end up at an Okama show in Kabukicho...
LB
> He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go on a
> Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour. It's also a pity that he has to leave
> the country on the 13th. He would miss all the beautiful college girls
> in kimono on the 15th.
It's now on the first clear monday of the year--the 12th in this case.
> Oh, no, I don't think he will miss it because
> after all, Seijin-no-hi is a fashion and drinking alcohol day as well.
There is that....
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
LB
the hard of comprehension:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
> Content- Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
> Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
> Are there things to see here for
> people who aren't into the shallowness?
Mount Koya?
Jim
> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
> Tokyo today feels like a foreign country because people here are so
> obsessed with fashion, drinking, and sex. I'm not into that at all --
>
Well 20 years ago the people in Tokyo were *much* *more* obsessed with
fashion, drinking and sex than they are now. That was during the
bubble years, when expense accounts were huge and the entertainments
available were quite a bit more varied and profuse than they are now.
(well, to be honest, I only know about what was going on 17 years
ago. I assume 20 years ago was similar)
> I am not a religious person, but I've spent the past ten years among
> software professionals in Silicon Valley and elsewhere, plus I am
> going to graduate school, where the majority of students are from
> places like rural China and have probably never been to a bar in
> their life. It's sort of like religious training, so this party
> culture feels pretty offensive to me. Are there things to see here for
> people who aren't into the shallowness?
So, you've been working in the Silicon Valley, where before the dot-bomb
the ratio of men to women was probably 10 to 1. You grew up in rural Japan
where there probably wasn't a whole lot of action going on either.
Maybe Tokyo just has too many women (or men, not sure what you're looking
for) who are ready to have fun. Might be too much for you, with their
drinking, smoking and sexing ways.
When you get back to the states, why not take a road trip out to
Salt Lake City? Lots of nice girls there who can probably provide
the kind of clean fun you're able to handle.
-Jim
Declan Murphy
> ifignow <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote, with annotated subtitles, maybe for
> the hard of comprehension:
>
>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>
>>------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
>>Content- Type: text/plain;
>> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
>>Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
>>different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
>
> It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
How pretentious! Almost like gloating about going to Japan 3 times.
>> Are there things to see here for
>>people who aren't into the shallowness?
>
> Mount Koya?
Only two problems with that. 1) He has gone to great lengths to specify
that he isn't religious. 2) He wants to meet Japanese chicks. In each of
my visits to koyasan there has been little to do at night other than go
out for a couple of beers and some yakisoba, then head back to the
lodgings for a bottle of beer with a monk.
--
I am not who I think I am
I am not who you think I am
I am who I think you think I am
...or some such shite.
Michael Cash
down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>ifignow <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote, with annotated subtitles, maybe for
>the hard of comprehension:
>
>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>
>> ------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
>> Content- Type: text/plain;
>> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
>> Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
>> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
>
>It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
I think most people who were of elementary school age back then missed
it as well. That plus the wistful misty veil one can unconsciously
throw over musty memories of the place makes it look better in
hindsight.
It seemed to me that fashion, drinking, and whatever else it was he
bemoaned were just as popular 20 years ago as they are today. In fact,
come to think of it, for the last manymany years hasn't the alcohol
industry been bemoaning a *decrease* in drinking?
--
Michael Cash
"While we thank you for considering our firm, regretfully we have no openings
for a person of your educational background and are returning your resume.
Despite what your academic advisor may have told you, there are, to the best
of our knowledge, no openings in our industry for a person with a degree in
farm ecology."
Dr. Seymore Butts
Human Resources
Acme Pharmeceuticals, Inc.
ifignow
"Jim" <etern...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FF629B4...@hotmail.com...
> Well 20 years ago the people in Tokyo were *much* *more* obsessed with
> fashion, drinking and sex than they are now. That was during the
I really meant 25 years ago in the late 70s, before the bubble happened.
> So, you've been working in the Silicon Valley, where before the dot-bomb
> the ratio of men to women was probably 10 to 1.
No, not quite. I've also lived in areas where there were plenty more women
than men. I set my standards high.
> Maybe Tokyo just has too many women (or men, not sure what you're looking
> for) who are ready to have fun. Might be too much for you, with their
> drinking, smoking and sexing ways.
Is that the kind of life you plan to lead forever?
ifignow
"Cindy" <cind...@attb.com> wrote in message
news:mIoJb.104056$VB2.258087@attbi_s51...
> He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go on a
> Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour.
I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
Jim
>>for) who are ready to have fun. Might be too much for you, with their
>>drinking, smoking and sexing ways.
>
>
> Is that the kind of life you plan to lead forever?
>
>
Well, much to the chagrin of my dear mother, I'm not likely to
find a cure for cancer, bring the world peace, or perform any other
noble act.
So I might as well have fun. I don't plan to be thinking on
my deathbed "I wish I'd lived a more conservative life".
-Jim
ifignow
"Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bt541v$3dtbp$3...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at the deep end - you'll crack
> your head on the bottom.
That's interesting, I'll quote you when I write up my travel synopsis of
Tokyo. So you are an American living in Tokyo?
ifignow
It sounds like you don't plan to accomplish anything either.
Eric Takabayashi
I am not part of that lifestyle either, but I love doing things like walking
alone into the most hard-core youth culture or entertainment districts I can
find such as Kabukicho or a Hiroshima live sex show, to see the sights.
--
http://www.mercycorps.org/
http://www.mercycorps.org/items/1398/
http://www.mercycorps.org/mercykits.php
Mercy Corps' goal in Iraq is to work with conflict-affected communities to meet
their urgent needs while also providing a firm foundation for the future
development of economic opportunities and civil society.
Efficiency
Over 92% of our resources go directly to humanitarian programs.
Excellence
Worth Magazine named Mercy Corps one of America's best charities.
High-Value
Every dollar you give helps us secure $12.71 in donated food and other
supplies.
Marc
"ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote in message
news:M9mJb.272301$Ec1.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
************************
my goodness, Tokyo is a big place and if you think it is all fashion,
drinking and sex I think you are only skimming the surface. The only
question is, what are YOU interested in? Whatever it is, you will find lots
of things to do in Tokyo and the surrounding area. There are great museums,
small eccentric hobby shops, local family-run restaurants, clubs,
bookstores, bazaars, etc. For example, one of my activities in Japan was to
join a local ward gym, and signed up for basketball classes. I didn't see no
fashion-drinking-sex, at least not in a form I recognized.
I think you are being a little parochial in your view of Tokyo, or you are
being seduced by the bright lights.
What would you like to do?
Fabian
Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
If you do all your enquiries by internet, its no wonder you seem to have
such difficulty in meeting people.
Fabian
Please don't insult me by calling me American. I prefer the term gaijin.
Declan Murphy
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 02:26:33 GMT, dame_...@yahoo.com (LB) brought
> down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
>>ifignow <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote, with annotated subtitles, maybe for
>>the hard of comprehension:
>>
>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>
>>>------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
>>>Content- Type: text/plain;
>>> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
>>>Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>>I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
>>>different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
>>
>>It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
> It seemed to me that fashion, drinking, and whatever else it was he
> bemoaned were just as popular 20 years ago as they are today. In fact,
> come to think of it, for the last manymany years hasn't the alcohol
> industry been bemoaning a *decrease* in drinking?
This would perhaps be one of the many reasons why the alcohol industry
simply loves my ass. And now that I've finally got the black gold (pause
to genuflect in the general direction of Dublin) on tap in my little
bar, the ghost of Arthur Guinness loves my ass in particular.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>ifignow hu kiteb:
>
>> "Cindy" <cind...@attb.com> wrote in message
>> news:mIoJb.104056$VB2.258087@attbi_s51...
>>> He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go
>>> on a Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour.
>>
>> I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
>
>Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
>operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
>
>If you do all your enquiries by internet, its no wonder you seem to have
>such difficulty in meeting people.
He could try poking his head out the goddamned window and looking for
one of those huge yellow buses.....
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
Please be sure to let us know the URL when you get it all written up.
Michael Cash
<declan...@hotmail.com> brought down from the Mount tablets
inscribed:
>LB wrote:
>> ifignow <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote, with annotated subtitles, maybe for
>> the hard of comprehension:
>>
>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>
>>>------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
>>>Content- Type: text/plain;
>>> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
>>>Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>
>>>I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
>>>different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
>>
>> It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
>
>How pretentious! Almost like gloating about going to Japan 3 times.
If I had the money I'd go again, just to rub it in.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
I'm going to take you as my role model and become an accomplished
Usenet Moper.
Declan Murphy
> I'm going to take you as my role model and become an accomplished
> Usenet Moper.
A nice term, and I think a new one. But how does one become accomplished
at something that is unyet defined? Start moping and wait until until we
let you when enuff is enuff?
Declan Murphy
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 12:08:04 +0900, Declan Murphy
> <declan...@hotmail.com> brought down from the Mount tablets
> inscribed:
>
>>LB wrote:
>>
>>>ifignow <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote, with annotated subtitles, maybe for
>>>the hard of comprehension:
>>>
>>>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>>
>>>>------ =_NextPart_000_0019_01C3D1C9.F1DE1140
>>>>Content- Type: text/plain;
>>>> charset="iso- 2022-jp"
>>>>Content- Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>>
>>>>I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
>>>>different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
>>>
>>>It was? Gosh. I must have missed that, way back then.
>>
>>How pretentious! Almost like gloating about going to Japan 3 times.
>
> If I had the money I'd go again, just to rub it in.
Ooh it would be so cruel if you weren't allowed back in.....
Declan Murphy
> ifignow hu kiteb:
>
>>"Cindy" <cind...@attb.com> wrote in message
>>news:mIoJb.104056$VB2.258087@attbi_s51...
>>
>>>He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go
>>>on a Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour.
>>
>>I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
>
> Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
> operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
>
> If you do all your enquiries by internet, its no wonder you seem to have
> such difficulty in meeting people.
Well at least he is honest - "I know I have antisocial tendencies, and
that was part of the reason I got into computers in the first place".
Declan Murphy
> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
> obsessed with fashion, drinking, and sex. I'm not into that at all --
The difference between Tokyo and rural areas of Japan 20 years ago and
now is more or less the same as then. If its the Japan of your youth
that you are missing, I suggest you get out of town and do some
travelling during the few remaining days that you remain here.
I mean think about it - there would several advantages - you would leave
with some happier memories of the place than you seem likely to at
present, you would soon encounter at least some women not obsessed with
fashion, drinking, and sex (though there may be a slight age
differential), and if nothing else, at least you would be offline.
If travelling 90 minutes in any direction from the big smoke seems too
adventurous, you could boldly go where no geek has ventured before and
turn off your computer to do some walking. Tokyo is not as exciting as
some people make out to be. Avoid the trendy/nightlife/shopping areas
and there isn't much to tell between many areas of Tokyo/Saitama et al
and Wakkanai. For the most part the whole concrete metropolis consists
of buckletloads of small, fairly insular little urban villages that have
simply grown into each other. If you ger lucky, you might even spot a
big yellow hato bus and be able to jot down the phone number or url.
ifignow
> ifignow hu kiteb:
> > "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bt541v$3dtbp$3...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at the deep end - you'll crack
> >> your head on the bottom.
> > That's interesting, I'll quote you when I write up my travel synopsis
> > of Tokyo. So you are an American living in Tokyo?
> Please don't insult me by calling me American. I prefer the term gaijin.
So, you are living in a foreign land, but you hate certain races. That's
hilarious. I'll be sure to quote you.
ifignow
"Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
news:jancvv097n467kht5...@4ax.com...
> I'm going to take you as my role model and become an accomplished
> Usenet Moper.
Yes, let me know when I should become shallower and dumber like you.
ifignow
> > I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
> Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
> operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
I wanted to check here if someone is just trying to pull my leg by naming
some fictitious company.
> If you do all your enquiries by internet, its no wonder you seem to have
> such difficulty in meeting people.
In the USA, the internet is far more efficient than the phone book or going
to the bus company. But since you hate yourself, I guess you wouldn't know
that.
ifignow
> He could try poking his head out the goddamned window and looking for
> one of those huge yellow buses.....
I have a view of the city from my window, though I have not seen any yellow
buses.
ifignow
> Please be sure to let us know the URL when you get it all written up.
It will be in the school newspaper, so it may or may not show up on the net.
ifignow
"Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FF664D...@hotmail.com...
> that you are missing, I suggest you get out of town and do some
> travelling during the few remaining days that you remain here.
Don't have money. Is there a place I can go cheaply, that isn't some
tourist trap, that really is the countryside? It has to be something other
than foreigner-hating onsen or temples with their dirty stone statues.
> differential), and if nothing else, at least you would be offline.
Some people are under the impression that I do nothing but sit at the PC all
day. As a matter of fact, I have already been to all the obvious places in
Tokyo, including the museums. I just haven't found anything interesting.
> and Wakkanai. For the most part the whole concrete metropolis consists
> of buckletloads of small, fairly insular little urban villages that have
> simply grown into each other. If you ger lucky, you might even spot a
> big yellow hato bus and be able to jot down the phone number or url.
People talk about this yellow bus a lot. Is there anything special about
it, or is it just going on a tour of the concrete metropolis with its small,
fairly insular little urban villages that have simply grown into each other?
Declan Murphy
> "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5lkv$3hu6b$2...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>>I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
>>
>>Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
>>operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
>
> I wanted to check here if someone is just trying to pull my leg by naming
> some fictitious company.
The company is real. It even exists. Surprisingly there are in this
world a few companies that don't rely significantly on the web for their
business. I don't know how they manage to do this, but the persistent
existence of those yellow buses only indicates how little I know.
Here is a hint for you: Not all people in the world are assholes. Their
own protestations not withstanding, not even all the people in fjlij are
assholes. When asking a question you will soon find that if you do so
without loading it with hubris, snide remarks and other facetious
assumptions then 99+% of the time you will get a useful reply.
>>If you do all your enquiries by internet, its no wonder you seem to have
>>such difficulty in meeting people.
>
> In the USA, the internet is far more efficient than the phone book or going
> to the bus company. But since you hate yourself, I guess you wouldn't know
> that.
Of FFS - where on the earth do you get the idea that Fabian hates
himself? Self-actualization?
Here is another hint for you: You are not in the USA, and comparatively
few of the people you are communicating with via fjlij are USAians. The
demonstration in a post of one or two social skills may help you achieve
your stated objective.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
There are lots of things one never sees until one knows to look for
them.
Here's the link you were unable to google:
http://www.hatobus.co.jp/english/index.html
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
Guess where you *ain't* right now. What the internet is in the US and
what the internet is in Japan are two quite different subjects.
>But since you hate yourself, I guess you wouldn't know
>that.
I smell some projection going on here.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
In the quote, please elaborate on what constitutes the American race.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
If I only had three weeks to spend in Japan, I don't think I'd spend
as much of it moping and whining as some others might. If that makes
me shallower (more shallow?) and dumber than you, then I can live with
that.
ifignow
> There are lots of things one never sees until one knows to look for
> them.
> Here's the link you were unable to google:
> http://www.hatobus.co.jp/english/index.html
Ok, I've looked at their page, but what is special about them? I've already
been all over Tokyo; would going on this bus somehow let me meet more
earnest or moral people?
ifignow
> >But since you hate yourself, I guess you wouldn't know
> >that.
> I smell some projection going on here.
That's what they all say.
ifignow
> In the quote, please elaborate on what constitutes the American race.
I'll let Fabian elaborate on that, since he's the one who hates Americans.
ifignow
> Here is a hint for you: Not all people in the world are assholes. Their
> own protestations not withstanding, not even all the people in fjlij are
> assholes. When asking a question you will soon find that if you do so
> without loading it with hubris, snide remarks and other facetious
> assumptions then 99+% of the time you will get a useful reply.
Fabian started off with "Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at the deep
end - you'll crack
your head on the bottom."
Naturally, I was skeptical of any advice coming from him.
> Of FFS - where on the earth do you get the idea that Fabian hates
> himself? Self-actualization?
Let's see, he hates other people of his own kind. He thinks that there is
nothing whatsoever for moral people in Tokyo, but he chooses to live here,
so either he is highly immoral or deeply depressed.
> Here is another hint for you: You are not in the USA, and comparatively
> few of the people you are communicating with via fjlij are USAians. The
> demonstration in a post of one or two social skills may help you achieve
> your stated objective.
I am already around plenty of foreigners back in the USA. I do not have to
bend over backwards for them any more than I already do back home.
ifignow
> If I only had three weeks to spend in Japan, I don't think I'd spend
> as much of it moping and whining as some others might. If that makes
> me shallower (more shallow?) and dumber than you, then I can live with
> that.
Thing is, I've already been all over Tokyo both this time and in past
visits. From what I see on the net, resident gaijin here like to hurl
insults rather than give constructive advice -- suggesting either a lack of
real choices, or their own low self-esteem.
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3FF664D...@hotmail.com...
>
>>that you are missing, I suggest you get out of town and do some
>>travelling during the few remaining days that you remain here.
>
> Don't have money. Is there a place I can go cheaply, that isn't some
> tourist trap, that really is the countryside? It has to be something other
> than foreigner-hating onsen or temples with their dirty stone statues.
If cash is a problem then use the seishun-juuhachi-kippu. Mega cheap.
You don't even need to know where you want to go - and with a few social
and language skills its usually easy to talk to people on the train.
Your journey could be your destination. And whats with the
foreigner-hating onsen BS? You seem to be a black hole of negativity. Go
play in the snow somewhere. What do you want to do? What do you enjoy?
>>differential), and if nothing else, at least you would be offline.
>
> Some people are under the impression that I do nothing but sit at the PC all
> day. As a matter of fact, I have already been to all the obvious places in
> Tokyo, including the museums. I just haven't found anything interesting.
Firstly - why wouldn't they be under that impression? You posted at 7:30
this morning, again around 10, again from 1pm and again since five-ish.
Some of us who have been working in front of a PC all day haven't
visited the NG that often. And secondly - you haven't actually given
(despite several posters asking you specifically) any information about
yourself that would help anyone imagine something that you would find
"interesting". Apart from "meeting" some "Japanese girls" and zapping
"slime" with a laser - what exactly would you find interesting?
>>and Wakkanai. For the most part the whole concrete metropolis consists
>>of buckletloads of small, fairly insular little urban villages that have
>>simply grown into each other. If you ger lucky, you might even spot a
>>big yellow hato bus and be able to jot down the phone number or url.
>
> People talk about this yellow bus a lot. Is there anything special about
> it, or is it just going on a tour of the concrete metropolis with its small,
> fairly insular little urban villages that have simply grown into each other?
Personally I think it is basically a tour of the latter. If you can
speak the language sufficiently, or have a sense of adventure, then I
would advise avoiding it and striking off on your own. I think the only
reason people suggested it was because whether you are aware of it or
not, in your posting style and persona you gave the impression of
someone lacking the confidence to go and and try different things.
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5ule$3jt3g$1...@ID-139419.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>Here is a hint for you: Not all people in the world are assholes. Their
>>own protestations not withstanding, not even all the people in fjlij are
>>assholes. When asking a question you will soon find that if you do so
>>without loading it with hubris, snide remarks and other facetious
>>assumptions then 99+% of the time you will get a useful reply.
>
> Fabian started off with "Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at the deep
> end - you'll crack
> your head on the bottom."
>
> Naturally, I was skeptical of any advice coming from him.
You may think it was natural, but it was a foolish decision.
>>Oh FFS - where on the earth do you get the idea that Fabian hates
>>himself? Self-actualization?
>
> Let's see, he hates other people of his own kind.
Projection 1.
He thinks that there is
> nothing whatsoever for moral people in Tokyo, but he chooses to live here,
Projection 2.
> so either he is highly immoral or deeply depressed.
Projection 3.
>>Here is another hint for you: You are not in the USA, and comparatively
>>few of the people you are communicating with via fjlij are USAians. The
>>demonstration in a post of one or two social skills may help you achieve
>>your stated objective.
>
> I am already around plenty of foreigners back in the USA. I do not have to
> bend over backwards for them any more than I already do back home.
Then why are you gracing us with your presence? You are the one asking
for help? No? You may equate "manners" with bending over backwards, and
indeed some other people in the world may too, but if you aren't willing
to display a clue, you shouldn't be expecting much in the way of help.
ifignow
> If cash is a problem then use the seishun-juuhachi-kippu. Mega cheap.
> You don't even need to know where you want to go - and with a few social
> and language skills its usually easy to talk to people on the train.
> Your journey could be your destination.
Ok, I did look at it. But $100 is pricey for me, and it doesn't cover hotel
expenses.
> And whats with the
> foreigner-hating onsen BS? You seem to be a black hole of negativity. Go
> play in the snow somewhere. What do you want to do? What do you enjoy?
I do speak from experience, and I'm not comfortable getting naked around
other men. I have been to Kyoto once by myself, though it was a thoroughly
boring experience in which I didn't talk to anyone for the whole trip.
I'm willing to give it another try if necessary, though do I really want to
keep repeating boring trips until something good happens? Are there ways to
ensure there will be interesting social experiences?
> > Some people are under the impression that I do nothing but sit at the PC
all
> > day. As a matter of fact, I have already been to all the obvious places
in
> > Tokyo, including the museums. I just haven't found anything
interesting.
> Firstly - why wouldn't they be under that impression? You posted at 7:30
> this morning, again around 10, again from 1pm and again since five-ish.
Between 10-1, I went out to the gym and to get lunch. Between 1-5, I went
mall walking in the underground mall of Tokyo station. It's been a typical
day in that sense -- haven't talked to anyone all day.
> And secondly - you haven't actually given
> (despite several posters asking you specifically) any information about
> yourself that would help anyone imagine something that you would find
> "interesting". Apart from "meeting" some "Japanese girls" and zapping
> "slime" with a laser - what exactly would you find interesting?
I do like checkers, is there a checkers club in Tokyo? Are there math
clubs? I do like juggling. Problem is, clubs like that are shut down for
the holiday seasons.
> Personally I think it is basically a tour of the latter. If you can
> speak the language sufficiently, or have a sense of adventure, then I
> would advise avoiding it and striking off on your own. I think the only
> reason people suggested it was because whether you are aware of it or
> not, in your posting style and persona you gave the impression of
> someone lacking the confidence to go and and try different things.
It's not so much unwilling to try new things, as it is that I've already
done them. Theoretically, I suppose I could take a thousand trips to Kyoto
until one of them is interesting, though that seems expensive and boring.
ifignow
> > Naturally, I was skeptical of any advice coming from him.
> You may think it was natural, but it was a foolish decision.
Hmmm, should I trust the other people who insist on this hato bus business?
Their attitudes suggest I shouldn't.
> Projection 1.
> Projection 2.
> Projection 3.
Who, you or me?
> > I am already around plenty of foreigners back in the USA. I do not have
to
> > bend over backwards for them any more than I already do back home.
> Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
I am not here by choice.
> You are the one asking
> for help? No? You may equate "manners" with bending over backwards, and
> indeed some other people in the world may too, but if you aren't willing
> to display a clue, you shouldn't be expecting much in the way of help.
People have a knee-jerk reflex of accusing others of "ignorance", though do
you know for a fact that I know nothing about Japan? What if I have spent
years living here in the past?
Declan Murphy
Sorry, I still don't get this - more earnest or moral than who? The
vaguesness is so far off the vagueness scale its damaging the
instrumentation. I mean its kinda like the definition of an alcoholic
being "anyone who drinks more than you do" innit? Who is an earnest and
moral person? What is the benchmark you are looking for? A young
Japanese girl who makes the Dalai Lama look like a chikan?
ifignow
> Sorry, I still don't get this - more earnest or moral than who? The
> vaguesness is so far off the vagueness scale its damaging the
> instrumentation. I mean its kinda like the definition of an alcoholic
> being "anyone who drinks more than you do" innit? Who is an earnest and
> moral person? What is the benchmark you are looking for? A young
> Japanese girl who makes the Dalai Lama look like a chikan?
Than the people I have been seeing in Tokyo, or talking to on the net.
Haluk Skywalker
"ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com>, iletide sunu yazdi
news:iTuJb.587119$0v4.23...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5lkv$3hu6b$2...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
> > Have you tried looking in Tokyo? I expect tourist info centres, tour
> > operators, and possibly even bus companies might know.
>
> I wanted to check here if someone is just trying to pull my leg by naming
> some fictitious company.
>
Good idea. That way if there is such person pulling your leg she/he will
immediately admit it. Lets ask them.
Guys, have you been pulling this poor retarded kid's leg?
Haluk Skywalker
>
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5ule$3jt3g$1...@ID-139419.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
to
> bend over backwards for them any more than I already do back home.
>
You bend over backwards for foreigners back in your home?!? Man, your folks
have some sick definition for hospitality. Where are you from? Pataya,
Thailand?
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5vt1$3ko4p$1...@ID-139419.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>If cash is a problem then use the seishun-juuhachi-kippu. Mega cheap.
>>You don't even need to know where you want to go - and with a few social
>>and language skills its usually easy to talk to people on the train.
>>Your journey could be your destination.
>
> Ok, I did look at it. But $100 is pricey for me, and it doesn't cover hotel
> expenses.
Spread it over five days and its hardly pricey. And as for hotel
expenses, may I introduce to you the idea of "day trips". Or for social
interaction (whether you initiate it or not), stay in a youth hostel.
>>And whats with the
>>foreigner-hating onsen BS? You seem to be a black hole of negativity. Go
>>play in the snow somewhere. What do you want to do? What do you enjoy?
>
> I do speak from experience, and I'm not comfortable getting naked around
> other men. I have been to Kyoto once by myself, though it was a thoroughly
> boring experience in which I didn't talk to anyone for the whole trip.
1) I find it hard to believe that anyone could go to/around/from Kyoto
without talking to anyone - unless - it was their own preference. 2) If
you don't enjoy onsens - don't go to them. Or if you prefer, try a
single bath next week when the crowds have gone.
Do you ski? Do you like sculpture? Ice-fishing? Photography? etc etc...
> I'm willing to give it another try if necessary, though do I really want to
> keep repeating boring trips until something good happens? Are there ways to
> ensure there will be interesting social experiences?
Well yes, one way to ensure that interesting social experiences occur is
to err, talk to people. I believe that the technical term for this is
called "social interaction", which in past tense becomes "social
experiences". One of the problems you may discover is that if you set
out to make earnest and moral boring trips each day they will inevitably
be boring.
>>Firstly - why wouldn't they be under that impression? You posted at 7:30
>>this morning, again around 10, again from 1pm and again since five-ish.
>
> Between 10-1, I went out to the gym and to get lunch. Between 1-5, I went
> mall walking in the underground mall of Tokyo station. It's been a typical
> day in that sense -- haven't talked to anyone all day.
Ahhhhh - I'm so awfully sorry. Sitting here 300 kilometers away I was
completely unable to instinctively know that you were not only away from
your PC for some of the time but also in fact out and about refusing to
talk to people. And why? Are you Stephen Hawking's love child? Is there
something wrong with your vocal chords?
>>And secondly - you haven't actually given
>>(despite several posters asking you specifically) any information about
>>yourself that would help anyone imagine something that you would find
>>"interesting". Apart from "meeting" some "Japanese girls" and zapping
>>"slime" with a laser - what exactly would you find interesting?
>
> I do like checkers, is there a checkers club in Tokyo? Are there math
> clubs? I do like juggling. Problem is, clubs like that are shut down for
> the holiday seasons.
I don't know what checkers is - a version of chess? Is there a club in
Tokyo? No idea. Perhaps you could have asked earlier and had an answer
by now, or contact any of the numerous tourist/cityhall/gaiginmedia
outlets abounding up there. Mathematics clubs - same deal- I don't and
haven't lived in Tokyo for eight years.
So you like juggling. Why do you need a club? Go sit (don't stand) in a
park (I suggest wearing something warm) and juggle for a few hours. Try
not to scowl or make judgements about people as they pass. It won't
help. About 1 person every 10 minutes is going to try to communicate
with you (the social interaction thingee remember? - you're supposed to
reply) and sooner or later you will have no reason to whine here
(most/part/whatever) of the day.
>>Personally I think it is basically a tour of the latter. If you can
>>speak the language sufficiently, or have a sense of adventure, then I
>>would advise avoiding it and striking off on your own. I think the only
>>reason people suggested it was because whether you are aware of it or
>>not, in your posting style and persona you gave the impression of
>>someone lacking the confidence to go and and try different things.
>
> It's not so much unwilling to try new things, as it is that I've already
> done them. Theoretically, I suppose I could take a thousand trips to Kyoto
> until one of them is interesting, though that seems expensive and boring.
Why Kyoto? Not enough concrete in Tokyo for you? In my post suggesting
you get out of town I was suggesting you try some rural areas. "The
difference between Tokyo and rural areas of Japan 20 years ago and
now is more or less the same as then. If its the Japan of your youth
that you are missing, I suggest you get out of town and do some
travelling during the few remaining days that you remain here".
--
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3FF68655...@hotmail.com...
>
>>>Naturally, I was skeptical of any advice coming from him.
>>
>>You may think it was natural, but it was a foolish decision.
>
> Hmmm, should I trust the other people who insist on this hato bus business?
> Their attitudes suggest I shouldn't.
You ask for suggestions, and based on your net persona you got some
ideas suggested to you. Naturally this means you should bite their heads
off?
If it was me I would say something along the lines of "thanks", or
"thanks but having looked at the hato bus schedule etc it doesn't appeal
to me. What I'm looking for is something more along the lines of..."
instead of expecting everyone to solve your social leprosy for you
without assistance.
>>Projection 1.
>>Projection 2.
>>Projection 3.
>
> Who, you or me?
You. Fabian is a cool gaigin, and I have a hunch that the world would be
a better place with more Fabians per square inch. Or something like that.
>>Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
>
> I am not here by choice.
You may not be in Japan by choice, but as far as I can tell no one is
forcing you to browse or post fjlij or any other newsgroup.
>>You are the one asking
>>for help? No? You may equate "manners" with bending over backwards, and
>>indeed some other people in the world may too, but if you aren't willing
>>to display a clue, you shouldn't be expecting much in the way of help.
>
> People have a knee-jerk reflex of accusing others of "ignorance", though do
> you know for a fact that I know nothing about Japan? What if I have spent
> years living here in the past?
All we know so far is what you have told us. That you grew up in rural
Japan (where? from/until what ages? as the child of Japanese nationals?
One foreign/two foreign parents? Nikkei?), that you are staying in Tokyo
with family (immediate? relatives?), that you are at/going to gradschool
(who doesn't?), that you somehow manage to avoid talking to people for
days etc.
Its not much to go on if ya know what I mean.
And as for years living here in the past - so what? What you do or don't
know about Japan etc matters sweet-fuck-all to people in this group -
and why shouldn't that be?. It doesn't matter how long you are/were
here, there isn't a pecking order. An anti-social self-righteous asshole
who spent 30 years in Japan would be treated like an asshole if he
behaved like one.
If you want some help in Tokyo, just learn how to ask.
Fabian
We must be real saints if you can't find anyone more moral than us.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
Fabian
But I don't hate Americans. I simply don't like being called American.
It is a mislabelling, and the logical conclusion about someone who
continuously mislabels is that he is stupid. If I got into teh habit of
hanging around stupid people, people might conclude that I was stupid.
Or they might conclude that I was a saint of high moral standing and
great patience. But you've already concluded that such people don't
exist here.
Fabian
But I thought in your precious country the Internet has absolutely
everything you might want to find!
Fabian
ok, here's some advice, just to prove that we don't just hurl insults.
You need to get laid. Badly.
Fabian
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5vt1$3ko4p$1...@ID-139419.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> If cash is a problem then use the seishun-juuhachi-kippu. Mega cheap.
>> You don't even need to know where you want to go - and with a few
>> social and language skills its usually easy to talk to people on the
>> train. Your journey could be your destination.
>
> Ok, I did look at it. But $100 is pricey for me, and it doesn't
> cover hotel expenses.
100 usd? Thats about 10000 yen, right? If you cant afford that in travel
expenses in the world's most expensive city(tm), you have problems.
Certainly, you couldnt afford that visit to Roppongi.
Here's a suggestion. Go to an Izakaya, order a meal and soft drinks,
since you apparently don't like alcohol. If no one approaches you to
talk, I'll be astounded.
> I do speak from experience, and I'm not comfortable getting naked
> around other men.
This is Japan. Live with it, even if you are a homophobe. Personally, I
draw the line when there are children present.
> I have been to Kyoto once by myself, though it was
> a thoroughly boring experience in which I didn't talk to anyone for
> the whole trip.
How on Earth did you manage that? It takes considerable effort to avoid
conversation for that length of time.
> I'm willing to give it another try if necessary, though do I really
> want to keep repeating boring trips until something good happens?
Question: what do you find fun? Do that. That way, even if you continue
to spend such effort avoiding conversation, at least you'll have fun.
> Between 10-1, I went out to the gym and to get lunch. Between 1-5, I
> went mall walking in the underground mall of Tokyo station. It's
> been a typical day in that sense -- haven't talked to anyone all day.
Well, most random strangers won't walk up to you to chat in the street.
Did you try walking up to them? Freaking the locals out by asking inane
questions rapid fire has a charm all of its own.
> I do like checkers, is there a checkers club in Tokyo? Are there math
> clubs? I do like juggling. Problem is, clubs like that are shut
> down for the holiday seasons.
Juggling? Grab yourself a cloth cap and three balls, set yourself up
somewhere sheltered, and try busking. I imagine you could do something
similar with matsh and checkers too.
Fabian
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bt5ule$3jt3g$1...@ID-139419.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>> Here is a hint for you: Not all people in the world are assholes.
>> Their own protestations not withstanding, not even all the people in
>> fjlij are assholes. When asking a question you will soon find that
>> if you do so without loading it with hubris, snide remarks and other
>> facetious assumptions then 99+% of the time you will get a useful
>> reply.
>
> Fabian started off with "Nope. Nothng at all. Try not to go off at
> the deep end - you'll crack
> your head on the bottom."
>
> Naturally, I was skeptical of any advice coming from him.
Well, I was natural sceptical that you had done even basic research into
things to do in Tokyo. Next chance I get, I plan to visit one of the
sumo stables and watch them training. No alcohol involved. Admittedly,
not much chance of meeting girls. The girls who would be present would
probably be into guys a few hundred pounds heavier than me
unfortunately. But we can dream.
>> Of FFS - where on the earth do you get the idea that Fabian hates
>> himself? Self-actualization?
>
> Let's see, he hates other people of his own kind.
When do you think I said that?
> He thinks that
> there is nothing whatsoever for moral people in Tokyo,
Au contraire, I think there is plenty for moral people to do in Tokyo.
It is just that I can't recomend them to you because you seem to have
different ideas about what moral means, so whilst I think they are ok
for moral people, I doubt you would agree. Moral is a very subjective
word, after all.
> but he chooses
> to live here, so either he is highly immoral or deeply depressed.
I did not say I live in Tokyo.
As it happens, I am both highly immoral (by your apparent standards) and
deeply depressed. But that is an entirely separate issue.
> I am already around plenty of foreigners back in the USA. I do not
> have to bend over backwards for them any more than I already do back
> home.
So you routinely insult the intelligence of foreigners in the USA?
Interesting. I guess they are just to moral to risk disrupting the wa
that exists around you by objecting.
Fabian
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
>
> I am not here by choice.
Now Im really curious. Who is making you log onto the Internet 4 times a
day?
ifignow
> expenses, may I introduce to you the idea of "day trips". Or for social
> interaction (whether you initiate it or not), stay in a youth hostel.
I only have 100-odd dollars for the rest of my trip, so it is still outside
my price range.
> 1) I find it hard to believe that anyone could go to/around/from Kyoto
> without talking to anyone - unless - it was their own preference.
I was receptive. Families, groups, or couples are generally not interested
in talking to some single guy. I did things on the order of asking for
directions, if that counts as conversation.
> Well yes, one way to ensure that interesting social experiences occur is
> to err, talk to people.
About what? Most people tend to be alarmed when a strange single man
suddenly talks to them.
> One of the problems you may discover is that if you set
> out to make earnest and moral boring trips each day they will inevitably
> be boring.
I'm not out looking to get laid or drunk, so I don't intend to lower my
standards in that sense.
> Ahhhhh - I'm so awfully sorry. Sitting here 300 kilometers away I was
> completely unable to instinctively know that you were not only away from
> your PC for some of the time but also in fact out and about refusing to
> talk to people.
I don't refuse to talk to people. It's more that other people don't want to
talk to me.
> So you like juggling. Why do you need a club? Go sit (don't stand) in a
> park (I suggest wearing something warm) and juggle for a few hours.
I have. People here aren't impressed easily. I've done it for an hour and
got no talkers.
> Why Kyoto? Not enough concrete in Tokyo for you? In my post suggesting
> you get out of town I was suggesting you try some rural areas.
Ok, but do you know exactly which ones?
ifignow
> > Hmmm, should I trust the other people who insist on this hato bus
business?
> > Their attitudes suggest I shouldn't.
> You ask for suggestions, and based on your net persona you got some
> ideas suggested to you. Naturally this means you should bite their heads
> off?
I should, until proven that they mean what they say. I won't play the part
of some gullible fool.
> If it was me I would say something along the lines of "thanks", or
> "thanks but having looked at the hato bus schedule etc it doesn't appeal
> to me. What I'm looking for is something more along the lines of..."
> instead of expecting everyone to solve your social leprosy for you
> without assistance.
Based on lines like these, I sense a higher probability that there really is
a hato bus company -- not some fake web page someone made up for this
occasion. Yeah ok, thanks.
> > Who, you or me?
> You. Fabian is a cool gaigin, and I have a hunch that the world would be
> a better place with more Fabians per square inch. Or something like that.
Oh yes, the world should be full of social lepers like Fabian with his
unhelpful advice. Charming.
> >>Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
> > I am not here by choice.
> You may not be in Japan by choice, but as far as I can tell no one is
> forcing you to browse or post fjlij or any other newsgroup.
Let me know if there are better forums.
> All we know so far is what you have told us. That you grew up in rural
> Japan (where? from/until what ages? as the child of Japanese nationals?
> One foreign/two foreign parents? Nikkei?), that you are staying in Tokyo
> with family (immediate? relatives?), that you are at/going to gradschool
> (who doesn't?), that you somehow manage to avoid talking to people for
> days etc.
I'd rather not give away too much personal info, if in the future you or any
number of people remember who I am and point the finger.
> It doesn't matter how long you are/were
> here, there isn't a pecking order.
There couldn't possibly be a pecking order on this newsgroup in which people
side with one asshole over another, could there?
ifignow
> 100 usd? Thats about 10000 yen, right? If you cant afford that in travel
> expenses in the world's most expensive city(tm), you have problems.
> Certainly, you couldnt afford that visit to Roppongi.
It's only a few stops away on the subway, so yes, it was in fact affordable.
I have exactly 15030 yen as of now.
> Here's a suggestion. Go to an Izakaya, order a meal and soft drinks,
> since you apparently don't like alcohol. If no one approaches you to
> talk, I'll be astounded.
I've had plenty of such meals. As a serious question, why do you think
anyone would approach me?
> > I do speak from experience, and I'm not comfortable getting naked
> > around other men.
> This is Japan. Live with it, even if you are a homophobe. Personally, I
> draw the line when there are children present.
I would not demand that a Muslim eat pork in the USA, so by the same token,
I do not have to get naked either.
> > I have been to Kyoto once by myself, though it was
> > a thoroughly boring experience in which I didn't talk to anyone for
> > the whole trip.
> How on Earth did you manage that? It takes considerable effort to avoid
> conversation for that length of time.
I don't know why people are amazed. Most every trip I've taken has been
like that. As I've said, most people (regardless of culture) treat young
single men with suspicion. I could suddenly start talking to some family,
they will give some superficially polite response and expect me to leave.
> > I'm willing to give it another try if necessary, though do I really
> > want to keep repeating boring trips until something good happens?
> Question: what do you find fun? Do that. That way, even if you continue
> to spend such effort avoiding conversation, at least you'll have fun.
Thing is, I don't "avoid" conversation. I welcome it. I do do the things I
like, but still nothing happens.
> > Between 10-1, I went out to the gym and to get lunch. Between 1-5, I
> > went mall walking in the underground mall of Tokyo station. It's
> > been a typical day in that sense -- haven't talked to anyone all day.
> Well, most random strangers won't walk up to you to chat in the street.
> Did you try walking up to them? Freaking the locals out by asking inane
> questions rapid fire has a charm all of its own.
Yes, I could and have asked locals questions in Japanese. They've given
polite and noncomittal responses, and that has been that.
> > I do like checkers, is there a checkers club in Tokyo? Are there math
> > clubs? I do like juggling. Problem is, clubs like that are shut
> > down for the holiday seasons.
> Juggling? Grab yourself a cloth cap and three balls, set yourself up
> somewhere sheltered, and try busking. I imagine you could do something
> similar with matsh and checkers too.
I've tried, but the locals aren't easily impressed here. They walk by in a
hurry, apparently afraid that I am a serial killer or whatever.
ifignow
> But I thought in your precious country the Internet has absolutely
> everything you might want to find!
About 95%. Hopefully it will be 100% soon.
ifignow
> ifignow hu kiteb:
> >> Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
> > I am not here by choice.
> Now Im really curious. Who is making you log onto the Internet 4 times a
> day?
The not being here by choice, that's what's making me do it.
Fabian
>> You ask for suggestions, and based on your net persona you got some
>> ideas suggested to you. Naturally this means you should bite their
>> heads off?
>
> I should, until proven that they mean what they say. I won't play
> the part of some gullible fool.
Imagine you ask someone the time, and he tells you it is half past four.
By your own rules, you must immediately snap back at them, "crap it is -
it's actually four thirty you moron."
You are free to ask for your advice. You are, of course, free to abuse
the people who give that advice. But you aren't free to dictate the
opinions of those who observe you biting their heads off.
> Based on lines like these, I sense a higher probability that there
> really is a hato bus company -- not some fake web page someone made
> up for this occasion. Yeah ok, thanks.
You really thought someone might make an entire website just to make fun
of you? Do you really think that the world revolves around you? We all
have lives to lead.
>>> Who, you or me?
>> You. Fabian is a cool gaigin, and I have a hunch that the world
>> would be a better place with more Fabians per square inch. Or
>> something like that.
Been to too many parties this holiday season. It may soon become a case
of too many square inches per Fabian if I'm not careful.
> Oh yes, the world should be full of social lepers like Fabian with his
> unhelpful advice. Charming.
Hmm, that reminds me of the Being John Malkovich film. Quite
entertaining it was, although I'd hate to be stuck up my own hole like
that. It'd be like being in a bar full of social lepers. Or it might be
a mass orgy. I'm not sure which image is the more horrifying.
>> You may not be in Japan by choice, but as far as I can tell no one is
>> forcing you to browse or post fjlij or any other newsgroup.
>
> Let me know if there are better forums.
last I checked, the internet was one big peanut gallery. Go outside and
talk face to face for $deity $+ 's sake.
> I'd rather not give away too much personal info, if in the future you
> or any number of people remember who I am and point the finger.
There's really no fear of us pointing the finger at you from knowing any
personal information you might give here. If ever we find ourselves in a
room with you, we'll know who you are immediately - you'll be the one
whom no one is talking to.
Fabian
>> Why Kyoto? Not enough concrete in Tokyo for you? In my post
>> suggesting you get out of town I was suggesting you try some rural
>> areas.
>
> Ok, but do you know exactly which ones?
I recomend inaka-machi in the Hakone peninsula.
More seriously, just sit in a train heading out for 90 minutes, get out,
and walk around wherever you happen to be. If you happen o be somewhere
too urban, repeat in a different direction.
Its called exploration.
Declan Murphy
> "Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3FF6928...@hotmail.com...
>
>>>Hmmm, should I trust the other people who insist on this hato bus
>
> business?
>
>>>Their attitudes suggest I shouldn't.
>>
>>You ask for suggestions, and based on your net persona you got some
>>ideas suggested to you. Naturally this means you should bite their heads
>>off?
>
> I should, until proven that they mean what they say. I won't play the part
> of some gullible fool.
Why not? Since you post like a fool, you might as well be gullible too.
People won't think any less of you, and maybe a little more.
>>If it was me I would say something along the lines of "thanks", or
>>"thanks but having looked at the hato bus schedule etc it doesn't appeal
>>to me. What I'm looking for is something more along the lines of..."
>>instead of expecting everyone to solve your social leprosy for you
>>without assistance.
>
> Based on lines like these, I sense a higher probability that there really is
> a hato bus company -- not some fake web page someone made up for this
> occasion. Yeah ok, thanks.
You are welcome. Now kindly fuck off you conceited little pissant.
>>>Who, you or me?
>>
>>You. Fabian is a cool gaigin, and I have a hunch that the world would be
>>a better place with more Fabians per square inch. Or something like that.
>
> Oh yes, the world should be full of social lepers like Fabian with his
> unhelpful advice. Charming.
There's ya problem - your dictionary has a problem defining "helpful
advice".
>>>>Then why are you gracing us with your presence?
>>>
>>>I am not here by choice.
>>
>>You may not be in Japan by choice, but as far as I can tell no one is
>>forcing you to browse or post fjlij or any other newsgroup.
>
> Let me know if there are better forums.
There aren't any. We are all saints and scholars here. Every last one of
us. The French and German newsgroups are a little more highbrow than us
of course, but that must be due to some kinda a voltaire or nietzsche in
japan thingee, and there don't appear to be many there don't have many
sepponian or austrian gaigins polluting their waters so to speak.
>>All we know so far is what you have told us. That you grew up in rural
>>Japan (where? from/until what ages? as the child of Japanese nationals?
>>One foreign/two foreign parents? Nikkei?), that you are staying in Tokyo
>>with family (immediate? relatives?), that you are at/going to gradschool
>>(who doesn't?), that you somehow manage to avoid talking to people for
>>days etc.
>
> I'd rather not give away too much personal info, if in the future you or any
> number of people remember who I am and point the finger.
Oh good grief. Get a life. As if anybody is going to remember you.
>>It doesn't matter how long you are/were
>>here, there isn't a pecking order.
>
> There couldn't possibly be a pecking order on this newsgroup in which people
> side with one asshole over another, could there?
That would first require simultaneous plurality of assholes.
Declan Murphy
> Been to too many parties this holiday season. It may soon become a case
> of too many square inches per Fabian if I'm not careful.
Nothing to be ashamed of. Till Monday tis' the season for earnest and
moral debauchery.
Cigar sir?
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
>"Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
>news:ujvcvvoe7tj91hag9...@4ax.com...
>> There are lots of things one never sees until one knows to look for
>> them.
>> Here's the link you were unable to google:
>> http://www.hatobus.co.jp/english/index.html
>
>Ok, I've looked at their page, but what is special about them?
Damned if I know. It wasn't *my* recommendation. Personally I'd rather
spend the afternoon sliding down 50ft razor blades into pools of
rubbing alcohol than take one of those tours.
>I've already
>been all over Tokyo; would going on this bus somehow let me meet more
>earnest or moral people?
I doubt it.
--
Michael Cash
"While we thank you for considering our firm, regretfully we have no openings
for a person of your educational background and are returning your resume.
Despite what your academic advisor may have told you, there are, to the best
of our knowledge, no openings in our industry for a person with a degree in
farm ecology."
Dr. Seymore Butts
Human Resources
Acme Pharmeceuticals, Inc.
ifignow
> Imagine you ask someone the time, and he tells you it is half past four.
> By your own rules, you must immediately snap back at them, "crap it is -
> it's actually four thirty you moron."
Except it wasn't like that. It was more like the fellow spat, said "oh,
it's you again", then said "oh and yeah, it's half past four."
> You really thought someone might make an entire website just to make fun
> of you?
It has happened.
> last I checked, the internet was one big peanut gallery. Go outside and
> talk face to face for $deity $+ 's sake.
Already have.
> > I'd rather not give away too much personal info, if in the future you
> > or any number of people remember who I am and point the finger.
> There's really no fear of us pointing the finger at you from knowing any
> personal information you might give here. If ever we find ourselves in a
> room with you, we'll know who you are immediately - you'll be the one
> whom no one is talking to.
Except, I do talk to people when I go to social gatherings -- I ensure in
advance they will be enjoyable ones. I find out who and what kinds of
people will be there. I go for quality over quantity. And yes, I have had
experiences in the past where people pointed the finger at me when I used my
real name, so I don't do that anymore.
ifignow
> Why not? Since you post like a fool, you might as well be gullible too.
> People won't think any less of you, and maybe a little more.
Thing is, I have experienced one-upmanship before, in settings like this.
I'm not about to let perpetrators have the last laugh.
> > I'd rather not give away too much personal info, if in the future you or
any
> > number of people remember who I am and point the finger.
> Oh good grief. Get a life. As if anybody is going to remember you.
They have.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>I am not here by choice.
Unless you are a child or were brought here in handcuffs on an
extradition order, that statement is bullshit.
(You don't happen to vote Democrat, by any chance?)
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
>"Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
>news:8nvcvv4c2dn6nlocq...@4ax.com...
>> >But since you hate yourself, I guess you wouldn't know
>> >that.
>> I smell some projection going on here.
>
>That's what they all say.
Yeah, well, if enough people say it, you might consider the
possibility that there may be at least some small degree of validity
to it, the example of organized religion notwithstanding, of course.
Fabian
Have you tried talking to Mr not being here by choice? He (or she, have
you asked yet?) might be an interesting person to talk to, and no some
weirdo who makes you sit at the computer until you have made enough
newsgroup posts.
Fabian
Here, I'd say it is about 20%. In my own precious cuntry, it is about
5%. I like it that way. It encourages me to go out and ask people more.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
>"Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
>news:ppvcvvgru98f85o6o...@4ax.com...
>> In the quote, please elaborate on what constitutes the American race.
>
>I'll let Fabian elaborate on that, since he's the one who hates Americans.
I don't see how Fabian could elaborate on it, since he never intimated
that American is a race. You're the one who did that.
There are lots of non-Americans in this group. They may even be the
majority, who knows? And I doubt that any of them would be
particularly thrilled to be mistaken for an American. But I don't find
that particularly offensive. After all, I wouldn't be thrilled to be
mistaken for something I am not. I doubt you would be either. Why deny
the same to others?
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
I'm waiting for Erog La to invent an uninternet, on which will be
placed 100% of the stuff I *don't* want to find.
Michael Cash
brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>
>"Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
>news:psvcvv0r8s9psgg9e...@4ax.com...
>> If I only had three weeks to spend in Japan, I don't think I'd spend
>> as much of it moping and whining as some others might. If that makes
>> me shallower (more shallow?) and dumber than you, then I can live with
>> that.
>
>Thing is, I've already been all over Tokyo both this time and in past
>visits. From what I see on the net, resident gaijin here like to hurl
>insults rather than give constructive advice -- suggesting either a lack of
>real choices, or their own low self-esteem.
No, we're like that to everybody who wanders into our midst with his
ass on his shoulders from the get-go. It's nothing personal.
ifignow
> ifignow hu kiteb:
> Have you tried talking to Mr not being here by choice? He (or she, have
> you asked yet?) might be an interesting person to talk to, and no some
> weirdo who makes you sit at the computer until you have made enough
> newsgroup posts.
Yes, I called the airline today, and there's no seats until the 12th.
ifignow
> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:15:11 GMT, "ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com>
> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
> >I am not here by choice.
> Unless you are a child or were brought here in handcuffs on an
> extradition order, that statement is bullshit.
It's true. I would only have stayed here for a few days in an ideal world,
but the plane company only has seats available on January 12th. I just
checked again today.
> (You don't happen to vote Democrat, by any chance?)
I don't vote.
Fabian
> "Michael Cash" <bugg...@fake.com> wrote in message
> news:k97dvvcjip3fe3p6p...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 09:15:11 GMT, "ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com>
>> brought down from the Mount tablets inscribed:
>>> I am not here by choice.
>> Unless you are a child or were brought here in handcuffs on an
>> extradition order, that statement is bullshit.
>
> It's true.
Which is? You are a child? Or you were extradited to here?
ifignow
> > "Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bt64di$3npml$3...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> But I thought in your precious country the Internet has absolutely
> >> everything you might want to find!
> > About 95%. Hopefully it will be 100% soon.
> Here, I'd say it is about 20%. In my own precious cuntry, it is about
> 5%. I like it that way. It encourages me to go out and ask people more.
I remember the 80s and early 90s when it was still like that in the USA, and
I do not miss one bit of it. Wasted trips and wrong advice.
ifignow
> >> Unless you are a child or were brought here in handcuffs on an
> >> extradition order, that statement is bullshit.
> > It's true.
> Which is? You are a child? Or you were extradited to here?
It's true that the airline has no openings until the 12th.
Fabian
But how did you come to be in Japan? Thats the real issue of whether you
are here by choice or not. I suspect you entered of your own free will,
so you are here by choice.
Feel free to correct that suspicion.
Fabian
Half the fun is the journey. Laugh, be free.
ifignow
> But how did you come to be in Japan? Thats the real issue of whether you
> are here by choice or not. I suspect you entered of your own free will,
> so you are here by choice.
> Feel free to correct that suspicion.
I came to visit family. Everything that needed to be done with them was
done in the first few days. Now it's only an issue of having a flight to
fly home on. Until then, I'm stuck here.
Fabian
> I came to visit family.
then you are here by choice.
ifignow
> ifignow hu kiteb:
>
> > I came to visit family.
>
> then you are here by choice.
Not really. I would rather have come later and left earlier.
Fabian
Nonetheless, gien the choice between coming here in the first place and
not coming here at all, you chose to come here.
John W.
> I grew up in rural Japan 20 years ago when it was a very
> different culture, where people were earnest and not pretentious.
> Tokyo today feels like a foreign country because people here are so
> obsessed with fashion, drinking, and sex. I'm not into that at all --
>
Neither are a great many Japanese. But maybe living in the Valley too
long has let you to view everyone as obsessed with *something*.
> I am not a religious person, but I've spent the past ten years among
> software professionals in Silicon Valley and elsewhere, plus I am
> going to graduate school, where the majority of students are from
> places like rural China and have probably never been to a bar in
> their life. It's sort of like religious training, so this party
> culture feels pretty offensive to me. Are there things to see here for
> people who aren't into the shallowness?
I would hesitate to say I ever felt there was more of a 'party culture'
in Japan than in the places I've lived in the US. And I have
lived/worked in Silicon Valley during and after the bubble years, and
the 'party culture' was far greater there than I ever felt in Japan.
But, then, I lived in Kobe and Himeji, places where it's very easy to
live without partying. Actually, I think I could live anyplace in the
world and not party.
John W.
Raj Feridun
record thread is going to be in danger of losing it's rightful
position as the longest ever in FJLIJ. Please, for the love of God,
stop the madness!
Raj Feridun
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:20:32 GMT, "ifignow" <ifi...@yawoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Fabian" <laj...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:bt64dk$3npml$5...@ID-174912.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> 100 usd? Thats about 10000 yen, right? If you cant afford that in travel
>> expenses in the world's most expensive city(tm), you have problems.
>> Certainly, you couldnt afford that visit to Roppongi.
>
>It's only a few stops away on the subway, so yes, it was in fact affordable.
>I have exactly 15030 yen as of now.
>
>
>> Here's a suggestion. Go to an Izakaya, order a meal and soft drinks,
>> since you apparently don't like alcohol. If no one approaches you to
>> talk, I'll be astounded.
>
>I've had plenty of such meals. As a serious question, why do you think
>anyone would approach me?
>
>> > I do speak from experience, and I'm not comfortable getting naked
>> > around other men.
>> This is Japan. Live with it, even if you are a homophobe. Personally, I
>> draw the line when there are children present.
>
>I would not demand that a Muslim eat pork in the USA, so by the same token,
>I do not have to get naked either.
>
>> > I have been to Kyoto once by myself, though it was
>> > a thoroughly boring experience in which I didn't talk to anyone for
>> > the whole trip.
>> How on Earth did you manage that? It takes considerable effort to avoid
>> conversation for that length of time.
>
>I don't know why people are amazed. Most every trip I've taken has been
>like that. As I've said, most people (regardless of culture) treat young
>single men with suspicion. I could suddenly start talking to some family,
>they will give some superficially polite response and expect me to leave.
>
>
>> > I'm willing to give it another try if necessary, though do I really
>> > want to keep repeating boring trips until something good happens?
>> Question: what do you find fun? Do that. That way, even if you continue
>> to spend such effort avoiding conversation, at least you'll have fun.
>
>Thing is, I don't "avoid" conversation. I welcome it. I do do the things I
>like, but still nothing happens.
>
>
>> > Between 10-1, I went out to the gym and to get lunch. Between 1-5, I
>> > went mall walking in the underground mall of Tokyo station. It's
>> > been a typical day in that sense -- haven't talked to anyone all day.
>> Well, most random strangers won't walk up to you to chat in the street.
>> Did you try walking up to them? Freaking the locals out by asking inane
>> questions rapid fire has a charm all of its own.
>
>Yes, I could and have asked locals questions in Japanese. They've given
>polite and noncomittal responses, and that has been that.
>
>
>> > I do like checkers, is there a checkers club in Tokyo? Are there math
>> > clubs? I do like juggling. Problem is, clubs like that are shut
>> > down for the holiday seasons.
>> Juggling? Grab yourself a cloth cap and three balls, set yourself up
>> somewhere sheltered, and try busking. I imagine you could do something
>> similar with matsh and checkers too.
>
>I've tried, but the locals aren't easily impressed here. They walk by in a
>hurry, apparently afraid that I am a serial killer or whatever.
>
Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson
>
>"Declan Murphy" <declan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF687D4...@hotmail.com...
>> Sorry, I still don't get this - more earnest or moral than who? The
>> vaguesness is so far off the vagueness scale its damaging the
>> instrumentation. I mean its kinda like the definition of an alcoholic
>> being "anyone who drinks more than you do" innit? Who is an earnest and
>> moral person? What is the benchmark you are looking for? A young
>> Japanese girl who makes the Dalai Lama look like a chikan?
>
>Than the people I have been seeing in Tokyo, or talking to on the net.
I thought you'd just finished telling us how many people you'd met
through the net? I'm confused!
Ken
Declan Murphy
> Dammit! If you guys insist on continuing to feed this troll my world
> record thread is going to be in danger of losing it's rightful
> position as the longest ever in FJLIJ. Please, for the love of God,
> stop the madness!
Madness??? If I recall correctly the longest thread in the past cuppla
years was Ryan's "communityinjapan". Hell even the uber-pathetic "The
English and "kokusaika" - kicks your recently scrawnified sepponian arse
all over the backblocks of Matsuyama.
Michael Cash
<rfe...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.jp> brought down from the Mount tablets
inscribed:
>Dammit! If you guys insist on continuing to feed this troll my world
>record thread is going to be in danger of losing it's rightful
>position as the longest ever in FJLIJ. Please, for the love of God,
>stop the madness!
You weren't around for gary's epoch "Can the Japanese speak Japanese?"
thread, or the one where some jackass crossposted us with
rec.martial.arts. Oi Vey, as they say in Riyadh, those were the days!
ifignow
> ifignow hu kiteb:
> > Not really. I would rather have come later and left earlier.
> Nonetheless, gien the choice between coming here in the first place and
> not coming here at all, you chose to come here.
I gave serious thought to not coming at all, since I figured it would be
boring. All my worst fears have come true.
What's your point, though?
ifignow
"Ken Yasumoto-Nicolson" <ken_ni...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:riodvv8afphbdus3b...@4ax.com...
I've met good Americans (in America) through the net. The net culture here
is a lot more backward -- people do not view it as a serious medium through
which to meet people.
Cindy
> "Cindy" <cind...@attb.com> wrote in message
> news:mIoJb.104056$VB2.258087@attbi_s51...
>
>>He hasn't made any friends yet, has he? If I were him, I would go on a
>>Magical Mystery Hato Bus Tour.
>
>
> I don't see it on Google, where would I go about finding this?
>