Classic superhero 'bits'
Dawn Seven
Death situations involving kids always give me shivers...
D7
------------------------
The death trap!
Happened in my last game--the villain Shadowmaster put my speedster Zip
on a chair hooked up to a motion sensor--if she moved, a bomb strapped
to a two year old child would explode. He then had a minion put a gun
to the back of her
head and started counting down to pulling the trigger.
Judith Mccrae
also be called cliches) as possible for an upcoming campaign. Can anyone add
to the following list (or even subtract from it if you think I've included a
cliche that isn't really one):
Villain saying 'You fool! Your energy blast only makes more powerful!'
Villain saying 'How ironic, that your own powers will be the means of your
demise.'
Villains who are effectively evil versions of the hero, for example The
Crime Syndicate, Sinestro, Professor Zoom.
The hero team meets extradimensional versions of themselves.
A villain who leaves a 'signature' at the crime scene.
Villain theme group. For example The Royal Flush Gang, The Elements of Doom.
Cutaway of a villain killing a minion, to show how evil he is. (This may be
more a film cliche.)
A villain (usually a robot) with the powers of an entire hero team. For
example Amazo, Super Adaptoid, Super Skrull.
The death trap!
Hero breaking out of evil villain mind control with the help of his friends
or through sheer force of will.
Fighting another superhero team (often mind-controlled).
Coming back from the dead.
Woman falling from a tall building/helicopter, etc.
Watertowers used for punching people through or putting out fires.
Flagpoles used for swinging from.
Doug McCrae
the.m...@tesco.net
Walt Smith
"Judith Mccrae" <The.M...@tesco.net> wrote:
> I've been trying to think of as many classic superhero 'bits' (they
could
> also be called cliches) as possible for an upcoming campaign. Can
anyone add
> to the following list (or even subtract from it if you think I've
included a
> cliche that isn't really one):
I'd add:
Superhero is deliberately incompetent in their Secret ID.
Major NPC worships/loves Superhero, disdains/hates Superhero's
Secret ID (or vice versa).
Superhero's Secret ID always being almost, but just barely not
quite blown.
Villain has secret base in exotic location.
...inhabited by hordes of minions in uniform who don't stand a
chance against the hero.
...isolated enough that the Villain can work on his plans for
world domination without being disturbed, yet conveniently close
enough to the Superhero's home city that the Villain can keep
getting involved with the Superhero.
Superhero and Superhero's Arch Enemy share similar (or even
exact same) origin.
Long, drawn-out conversations...full of exclamation points!!!...
during complex combat scenes.
And how could you forget...
Villain captured, escapes to threaten Heroes again.
Walt Smith
--
Firelock on DALNet
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Before you buy.
Theala Sildorian
>
>Villain saying 'You fool! Your energy blast only makes more powerful!'
Happened in my last game.
>
>Villain saying 'How ironic, that your own powers will be the means of your
>demise.'
Happened in my last game.
>
>Villains who are effectively evil versions of the hero, for example The
>Crime Syndicate, Sinestro, Professor Zoom.
Happened in my last game.
>
>The hero team meets extradimensional versions of themselves.
>
My hero WAS the extradimensional version of herself. My original version died,
and this was how we brought her back from the dead (see below).
>A villain who leaves a 'signature' at the crime scene.
>
Happened in my last game.
>Villain theme group. For example The Royal Flush Gang, The Elements of Doom.
Happened in my last game (villains were the Crimemasters from Heroes
Unlimited.)
>
>Cutaway of a villain killing a minion, to show how evil he is. (This may be
>more a film cliche.)
>
In this case, the villain shot four helpless hostages in front of my secondary
PC, to show how evil he was.
>A villain (usually a robot) with the powers of an entire hero team. For
>example Amazo, Super Adaptoid, Super Skrull.
>
Happened in my last game. In this case, a reanimated wizard.
>The death trap!
Happened in my last game--the villain Shadowmaster put my speedster Zip on a
chair hooked up to a motion sensor--if she moved, a bomb strapped to a two year
old child would explode. He then had a minion put a gun to the back of her
head and started counting down to pulling the trigger.
>
>Hero breaking out of evil villain mind control with the help of his friends
>or through sheer force of will.
>
Hah! This never happens to MY characters. I'm stuck.
>Fighting another superhero team (often mind-controlled).
Not recently, but been there too. My character killed one of the superheroes,
too--really fucked him in the head.
>
>Coming back from the dead.
See above. Unless we see the body, we don't believe it. One game, the villain
hired a mentalist to put mental illusions in my technomage characters head to
make her think he was a ghost haunting her--just about drove her crazy. In the
same game, she discovered a device that let her bring her dead boyfriend back
to life--and they promptly broke up.
>
>Woman falling from a tall building/helicopter, etc.
Do I hear falling from a plane? We have one character in our sci fi game that
has HUGE tracts of land--and another male character who's always falling off or
out of something and grabbing her tits to keep from falling. Last time was to
keep from falling out of a plane--she nearly went over with him.
>Watertowers used for punching people through or putting out fires.
>
This one I've never actually seen--and don't want to. Do you know how much
water weighs?? Ouch!
>Flagpoles used for swinging from.
Funny, I never seem to be able to find one when I'm the one falling . . .
.<sigh>
>
--
Theala Sildorian
www.ndak.net/~theala/hero.html
Theala Sildorian
>Superhero is deliberately incompetent in their Secret ID.
Ala Clark Kent. A rarity in games--usually players like to be perfect in
everything. I sure do <grin>.
>
>Major NPC worships/loves Superhero, disdains/hates Superhero's
>Secret ID (or vice versa).
Did that one! The NPC was a PRIMUS/Genocide double agent spying on the PCs,
and started dating one of the heroes in his hero id while secretly hating him.
>
>Superhero's Secret ID always being almost, but just barely not
>quite blown.
Usually I almost blow the OTHER character's Secret ID, never my own . . . .
>
>Villain has secret base in exotic location.
>
>...inhabited by hordes of minions in uniform who don't stand a
>chance against the hero.
>
I wish! You've never gamed with my GM.
>...isolated enough that the Villain can work on his plans for
>world domination without being disturbed, yet conveniently close
>enough to the Superhero's home city that the Villain can keep
>getting involved with the Superhero.
>
Yeah, corny, but useful. :D
>Superhero and Superhero's Arch Enemy share similar (or even
>exact same) origin.
>
I'm doing this one for a new group I'm joining--I created an opposite for
Photon in San Angelo: City of Heroes.
>Long, drawn-out conversations...full of exclamation points!!!...
>during complex combat scenes.
>
My GM doesn't allow them. Says they're attempts by players to stall when they
can't think what to do.
>And how could you forget...
>
>Villain captured, escapes to threaten Heroes again.
If you don't see a body, he ain't dead. If he ain't locked up in your bedroom,
he'll escape.
--
Theala Sildorian
www.ndak.net/~theala/hero.html
Mathew R. Ignash
> Villains who are effectively evil versions of the hero, for example The
> Crime Syndicate, Sinestro, Professor Zoom.
Lets see. We have Venom, Carnage, the Symbiots and clones of Spiderman,
and whole slew of doppelgangers from the Infinity War etc.
> Villain theme group. For example The Royal Flush Gang, The Elements of Doom.
The Zodiac and Chess Set too.
> A villain (usually a robot) with the powers of an entire hero team. For
> example Amazo, Super Adaptoid, Super Skrull.
The Mimic from the X-Men counts too, he pulled it with Excalibur once
too, had all their powers. Also they did a story in the West Coast
Avengers that kinda showed a combined WCA character, but it was
fictional.
> Coming back from the dead.
Evey Marvel and DC hero ever! Look at West Coast Avengers Avengers
Annual #2. Every member of both team is killed and comes back from the
dead in that issue! And they are tricked into fighting while in the
afterlife! That's a double right?
For fun sometime I pull out an issue of Marvel Universe, book of the
dead and inactive, and see how many of them are still dead. Usually
half are alive at any one time.
Mathew
SD Anderson
> fires.
At the height of the Comics Code's power, villains COULDN'T get
away with any crime, thus the narrator at the end of the 'mystery'
(horror) tale would explain how the villain was brought to justice
a short time later.
In superhero stories this meant the Villain would return the
loot for a really petty reason, ie Lex Luthor tricks Superman gets
away with a fortune, discovers it wasn't Superman but a Superman
robot and orders his henchmen to return the loot.
SD Anderson
> And how could you forget...
> Villain captured, escapes to threaten Heroes again.
I'm sorely tempted to call this "Roy Thomas Syndrome". Comic
book characters with the same last name are related to each other.
Prodigal
"Judith Mccrae" <The.M...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:8ldeqe$sv$1...@barcode.tesco.net...
> I've been trying to think of as many classic superhero 'bits' (they could
> also be called cliches) as possible for an upcoming campaign. Can anyone
add
> to the following list (or even subtract from it if you think I've included
a
> cliche that isn't really one):
After the heros defeat the villain they've been facing, the villain who was
controlling that villain's actions emerges from the shadows.
krusherjoe
> I've been trying to think of as many classic superhero 'bits' (they could
> also be called cliches) as possible for an upcoming campaign. Can anyone
add
> to the following list (or even subtract from it if you think I've included
a
> cliche that isn't really one):
>
How about this one?
The villain gloats over the defeated or captured the heroes, and then
reveals his master plan only to have it thwarted by the heroes.
Walt Smith
the...@ndak.net (Theala Sildorian) wrote:
> >...inhabited by hordes of minions in uniform who don't stand a
> >chance against the hero.
> >
>
> I wish! You've never gamed with my GM.
"If this is the power level of his agents, I'd hate to meet
his supervillains." - a player's line from my college Champions
campaign.
This thread was looking for classic comic bits, I was trying to
present them in their original format - *before* we mad gamers
got a chance to pervert them in our own image. ;-)
Chris
<snkr7j...@corp.supernews.com>, the...@ndak.net (Theala Sildorian)
wrote:
>In article <8ldeqe$sv$1...@barcode.tesco.net>, The.M...@tesco.net says...
<snip>
>>
>>Woman falling from a tall building/helicopter, etc.
>
>Do I hear falling from a plane? We have one character in our sci fi game that
>has HUGE tracts of land--and another male character who's always falling off or
>out of something and grabbing her tits to keep from falling. Last time was to
>keep from falling out of a plane--she nearly went over with him.
LOL! Well, it would've been a nicely padded landing. };)
--
To email me---oh, figure it out yourself;
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Soth69
really dead, because you killed his clone' bit... go to www.eviloverlord.com
for more things...
-----
My brain: it's my second favorite organ.
If God is inside us, then I hope he likes fajita's, cause that's what he's
getting.
Beam me up Scotty. There are no virgins left.
Soth69
SD Anderson
taking place among these condemned buildings!"
kchi...@execulink.com
At the high point of a supervillian's plot, s/he gloats, "Nobody can
stop us now!" and suddenly the superheroes appear saying something the
equivalent of, "We beg to differ!", just before the climatic battle.
And:
Just when the villians are about to win completely after leaving the
heroes in a seemingly inescapable deathtrap that s/he is absolutely
sure has eliminated his enemies. Just at the critical moment of the
villians' victory, the heroes, who have escaped the villain's trap,
come charging back on the attack while the villain, in shock,
screams "It's impossible! They can't be alive!" just before s/he gets
her/his butt kicked.
SD Anderson
> the heroes in a seemingly inescapable deathtrap that s/he is
> absolutely sure has eliminated his enemies. Just at the
> critical moment of the villians' victory, the heroes, who have
> escaped the villain's trap, come charging back on the attack
> while the villain, in shock, screams "It's impossible! They
> can't be alive!" just before s/he gets her/his butt kicked.
Death Traps are cliched to begin with. What is the lamest trap
and the lamest escape you've ever seen?
The lamest escape came in a Johnny Peril story in the sixties.
Peril is caught and put inside a bullet proof glass dome on a
tower to be broiled in the desert sun. He plugs the tiny air
holes with torn pieces of his shirt and waits for the heat to
build up the air pressure to the point it shatters the bullet
proof glass dome.
Brad Carletti
>and the lamest escape you've ever seen?
>
> The lamest escape came in a Johnny Peril story in the sixties.
>
> Peril is caught and put inside a bullet proof glass dome on a
>tower to be broiled in the desert sun. He plugs the tiny air
>holes with torn pieces of his shirt and waits for the heat to
>build up the air pressure to the point it shatters the bullet
>proof glass dome.
That's lame, but there's one lamer. In the pulp-era one radioplay
writer was going to be sacked. Management made the mistake of letting
him know in advance. So he set an impossible situation for the hero -
holding onto a decaying rope bridge with his fingertips, over a canyon
of molten lava, with cannibals waiting on one side of the canyon and
an evil army on the other. That was the last episode.
The radio station was flooded with callers demanding to know what had
happened, when the climax would be concluded. Their on-staff writers
couldn't come up with an escape. The station just couldn't come up
with a way out of this worsening situation. Eventually they decided to
just hire the original writer back, wondering how he would get the
hero out of the situation he himself had put him in. He sat down and
wrote:
"As quick as a flash, he was free."
Brad Carletti
Randy Patton
> I've been trying to think of as many classic superhero 'bits' (they could
> also be called cliches)
Hero: "Running out of time! There's only ONE CHANCE, but I have to
time it PERFECTLY!"
(Just once, I'd like to see a hero say "There's only ONE CHANCE!", fail,
and then think, "Oh, wait, there are a couple of other things I could
try.")
Heroes framed by villains; must escape police until they can clear
themselves.
Power Corrupts:
a.) Good character gains vast new powers; becomes arrogant and then
evil. Usually accompanied by a change in costume and a reduction in
intelligence (Zweig's Law).
b.) Villain gains vast new powers; becomes even more arrogant and even
more evil.
In both cases, omnipotent hero/villain is defeated by a transparent ruse
by the heroes and stripped of his/her new powers. Heroes usually return
to normal, and acknowledge "Man was never meant to wield that kind of
power!"
No superbeing *ever* makes money using his/her powers legitmately. One
is either a selfless superhero, refusing all rewards, or a wicked
villain. Attempts by heroes to earn money with their powers turn out
badly, prompting moving soliloquies about the evils of greed.
Villain attempts to "RULE THE WORLD!" by:
a.) replacing world leaders with clones/robots/shapechangers;
b.) summoning a demon/alien who will give him great power, but who turns
out to be too powerful for him to control;
c.) starting a war between peaceful countries.
Villain threatens a city/country/planet with his latest doomsday device,
and demands a large sum of money...in cash. (Presumably this is due to
the difficulty of cashing a check for one billion dollars, particularly
when one is wanted in every nation on the globe for six billion counts
of attempted murder.)
Any supervillain who demonstrates sincere repentance for his crimes can
be forgiven, at which point he becomes a hero.
Corollary: Any villain who spontaneously starts doing good deeds in an
effort to persuade heroes of his changed nature is running some sort of
scam to gain their confidence before betraying them.
Fallen or failed heroes get a second wind at a crucial moment.
Discouraged heroes can be persuaded to undertake the most ridiculously
impossible tasks if a teammate gives them a rousing pep talk about
"believing in themselves."
Corollary: Such pep talks also make crippled children walk, blind
children see, and stupid children become Einsteins.
Corollary: Pep talks are doubly effective if the person delivering them
is wearing a costume based on the American flag.
Heroes are enlisted to guard a dangerous weapon/power source/invention
from villains. Villains appear, clean heroes' clock, and steal the
device. Heroes have to track down the villains and get it back.
*Everyone* in the U.S. lives in a large city.
Corollary: Characters in countries other than the U.S. live in or
around their nation's capital (e.g. all English in London, all Spaniards
in Madrid).
All major events affecting the campaign take place in or around the
heroes' home city, or in outer space.
Time travel always leads to the far-flung future world of high
technology, WWII, or the era of the dinosaurs.
Corollary: If WWII, the heroes have to try to stop Hitler, only to
fail. One character must give a moving soliloquy about how "Man was
never meant to tamper with history!"
A terrifying alien monster is on the verge of destroying Earth when a
hero discovers how to communicate with it. The creature is actually a
child of its species, and just wants to go home.
No matter what the situation, every hero's powers are useful at least
once. Even if a hero's only power is summoning ferrets and the
adventure takes place in a total vacuum on the other side of the event
horizon of a black hole, someone will say "Wow, Rodent Lord, lucky you
were here!" before the end of the adventure.
Walt Smith
Randy Patton <randy....@vt.edu> wrote:
> (Just once, I'd like to see a hero say "There's only ONE CHANCE!",
> fail, and then think, "Oh, wait, there are a couple of other things
> I could try.")
I recall a Marvel Team-Up between Spiderman and Dominic Fortune.
As the all the victims of Turner D. Century's "deadly" Time Horn
shake it off and wake up, one of the heroes is somewhat
confounded - it was amazing to meet a bad guy with an esoteric,
properly-themed, previously-unknown-to-science weapon, and have
that weapon not work perfectly.
This was, of course, after the heroes had failed and the
villain had turned his Time Horn on the helpless crowds below.
Walt Smith
--
Firelock on DALNet
Ham Salad
Except for a scattering of rural farm-dwellers, all of who can
expect to have a spaceship land/crash near them at one time or
another.
Don't forget the multiple-gadget-wielding character (Batman,
various archers, Doctor Who, etc.) who has the ability to
(1) Pull the required widget for the situation out on command
while
(2) Stuffing two hundred pounds of assorted equipment into a
pouch the size of a pants pocket
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
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David Johnston
>
> Randy Patton <randy....@vt.edu> wrote:
> >
> >*Everyone* in the U.S. lives in a large city.
> >
>
> Except for a scattering of rural farm-dwellers, all of who can
> expect to have a spaceship land/crash near them at one time or
> another.
Not at all. There also the dwellers in small towns, all which have
been taken over by supervillains with just enough mind control to
take over a small town.
Eric Tolle
>
> No superbeing *ever* makes money using his/her powers legitmately. One
> is either a selfless superhero, refusing all rewards, or a wicked
> villain. Attempts by heroes to earn money with their powers turn out
> badly, prompting moving soliloquies about the evils of greed.
Corollary:
The heroes/villians may have advanced technology and inventions, but
it never leaves leaves the Crimecave, secret base, or Fortress of
Solitariness. supertech is never actually allowed out into the
world.
Likewise, police are armed with pistols. Members of villainous
organizations on the other hand, have blasters that are no more
effective then pistols.
Finally, members of hero or villain organizations always dress up
in gaudy costumes in primary colors for no apparent reason. The
idea of Cammo or three-piece suits is verboten.
--
Eric Tolle sch...@silcom.com
People tend to underestimate the impact of scientific progress.
Why just fifty years ago, only a few people had even heard of DNA,
and now everybody who is somebody uses it!
Bill Dowling
wrote on 7/26/00 2:53 AM:
> Likewise, police are armed with pistols. Members of villainous
> organizations on the other hand, have blasters that are no more
> effective then pistols.
>
This actually makes sense,though, since most cities have laws against
carrying firearms. Having sat on a jury in which carrying a firearm was one
of the counts and hearing the legal definition, you would certainly not be
breaking that law if you carried around a blaster. So even though they are
no more effective than pistols, there's one fewer legal ramifications.
Mccrae Household
existentialators. Hold tight! This is going to be rough!" - Fantastic Four
#337 by Walt Simonson.
Giant-sized villain of vast power, usually being attacked by a horde of
superheroes. Examples - Galactus, The Anti-Monitor, The Sphinx in New
Warriors #13 Vol. 1
Doug McCrae
the.m...@tesco.net
David Johnston
>
> Randy Patton wrote:
> >
> > No superbeing *ever* makes money using his/her powers legitmately. One
> > is either a selfless superhero, refusing all rewards, or a wicked
> > villain. Attempts by heroes to earn money with their powers turn out
> > badly, prompting moving soliloquies about the evils of greed.
>
> Corollary:
>
> The heroes/villians may have advanced technology and inventions, but
> it never leaves leaves the Crimecave, secret base, or Fortress of
> Solitariness. supertech is never actually allowed out into the
> world.
>
> organizations on the other hand, have blasters that are no more
> effective then pistols.
Yes and no. The blasters do seem to have an unlimited number of shots.
Chris
moment she scowls, and says she's not gonna take it any more.
The next moment she pushes her biggest EB/RKA/whatever to the max, and
*flattens* the villain.
Joe Jefferson
>
> <snip>
> *Everyone* in the U.S. lives in a large city.
> around their nation's capital (e.g. all English in London, all Spaniards
> in Madrid).
Also, every city on the planet is filled with block after block of
towering skyscrapers, which characters can fall or be puched off of,
swing down from, be punched through, fly a slalom course around, etc.
--
Joe of Castle Jefferson
http://www.primenet.com/~jjstrshp/
Site updated October 1st, 1999.
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the
poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the
hand of the wicked." - Psalm 82:3-4.
Joe Jefferson
> >
>
> expect to have a spaceship land/crash near them at one time or
> another.
>
> various archers, Doctor Who, etc.) who has the ability to
>
> (1) Pull the required widget for the situation out on command
> while
>
> (2) Stuffing two hundred pounds of assorted equipment into a
> pouch the size of a pants pocket
That one is so incredibly common that there's even a rules mechanism for
it in DCH/BOH.
Joe Jefferson
But so do the pistols.
Daniel Pawtowski
>Time travel always leads to the far-flung future world of high
>technology, WWII, or the era of the dinosaurs.
Awww. I once sent a PC superteam headlong into World War I....
The villian of the piece was a nutty mad scientist from the
far future. He had decided that the best way to stop WWII was
to make sure Germany didn't lose the first one.
Daniel Pawtowski
Jim E Barr
As for classic "bits"....
Shape changing alien race.
"No one could survive that!"
"Imitators" of heroes - sidekicks, flip-side villains (already mentioned),
Batmangirlwomanmiteetc, Supermangirldogcatunclecheeseetc, "Marvel Family", etc.
There is a large manpower base available for villainous organizations, even in
areas with low unemployment rates. Many have combat training and technical
skills, frequently being disgruntled military veterans.
Epithets. "Man of Steel", "Man without Fear", "Jade Giant", "Amazing Amazon",
etc. If you're only known by your official hero name (ie Spiderman) and not by
at least one epithet (ie Webslinger) you haven't made it big yet.
Everything has SOME weakness. Often, the more powerful someone is in one
respect, the weaker they are in some other (Supes vs magic, Juggernaut vs
mental, Prof X could get beaten up by Aunt May, etc)
No matter where they're coming from, everyone arrives at the action either at
the same time or quickly on each other's heels.
You can hide in shadows, even in a white costume (Moon Knight, Dagger).
Aside from theme groups, nutty theme villains (Doberman from GAC is a great
example) Watch the old 60's Batman for more examples - ex Catwoman decorates
her base w/cat related stuff, renames her thugs, does cat-themed crimes, etc.
Villain holds grudge on hero for very minor infraction, or for even trying to
help (Lex Luthor in some versions, Dr.Doom vs Reed for Reed pointing out Doom's
error, Doom goes ahead, blows face up, blames Reed)
Villain in hero's outfit (already mentioned I think in the "ruin hero's
reputation)
Alliteration! Lois Lane, Peter Parker, (sorta) Clark Kent, etc.
Secret ID names that hint at heroic ID (Dr. Lance Lake {see alliteration,
above} suits up to battle crime as SIR LANCELOT)
Characters based on mythological figures will have villains based in same
mythos (Thor/Loki, Black Knight/Morgan LeFey, Captain America/Red Skull {WWII
counts as a 'mythos' now for comics, I would think!}, etc)
If you think you're the only survivor of X (planet, secret society, etc),
you're wrong.
Jim
Bryant Berggren
>Alliteration! Lois Lane, Peter Parker, (sorta) Clark Kent, etc.
>
>Secret ID names that hint at heroic ID (Dr. Lance Lake {see alliteration,
>above} suits up to battle crime as SIR LANCELOT)
Another guideline for men: if your surname is a usable first name
(maybe with an 's' to modify it), you've got a winner. Clark Kent,
Bruce Wayne, Kent Nelson, Steve Rogers, Reed Richards, Peter Parker
(borderline), etc.
BRB
SD Anderson
Riddler, for example.
Mathew R. Ignash
> Secret ID names that hint at heroic ID (Dr. Lance Lake {see alliteration,
> above} suits up to battle crime as SIR LANCELOT)
The Power Pack kids of course. My personal favorite the Vanisher (a
mutant villain teleporter), his name is Telford Porter! Jack Of Heart's
real name is Jack Hart. Magneto's middle name is Magnus.
How about heroes and villains who dress to fit some racial or ethnic
sterotype? Ever see an American Indian hero or villain who didn't wear
feathers? (American Eagle, Mirage II, Thunderbird, Warpath) Or an
Arabian hero who wan't wearing a turbin or somesuch outfit? Look at
Irish super heroes like Banshee or Shamrock. If you have an ethnic
background in comics it seems you have to go overboard flaunting it in
your hero ID.
Ever seen a non-evil german scientist in a comic? Heck, ever seen a
non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
Another comic book staple - Hitler returned from the dead. Let's see in
Marvel we have the Hatemonger, in Image we have Brain-ape, etc.
For that matter, how about foreign heroes who always feel the need to
put in a commonly known word in their language when speaking english.
How many times has Colossus or Nightcrawler called people friend in
Russian or German? It's like the writers have to constantly remind
people, since they can't hear the accent in the word bubble. All Russian
or German people I know speak english words all the time when speaking
english. Not mix and match.
Mathew
Kent Allard
<mig...@rust.net> wrote:
> It's like the writers have to constantly remind
> people, since they can't hear the accent in the word bubble. All Russian
> or German people I know speak english words all the time when speaking
> english. Not mix and match.
That depends on how well they know the language. I know lots of real live German
and Dutch people who slip in and out of their native tongue without even
realizing that they are doing it. This especially happens when they don't know
the English word for a concept so they use their own and hope everyone gets it.
(And a lot of the time you can, surprisingly.)
Kent
Walt Smith
> non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
They certainly are rare. Sgt. Fury's Howling Commandos included
a German expatriot pilot, who later became a SHIELD agent, who
was later a victim of the Deltan conspiracy. He's just about
the only one I recall.
Would a German comic book company have more German characters,
do you think? <G>
> For that matter, how about foreign heroes who always feel the need to
> put in a commonly known word in their language when speaking english.
> How many times has Colossus or Nightcrawler called people friend in
> Russian or German? It's like the writers have to constantly remind
> people, since they can't hear the accent in the word bubble. All
> Russian or German people I know speak english words all the time when
> speaking english. Not mix and match.
With Kurt Wagner, his German accents and German words are
deliberate affectations, as much a show as his fencing and
show-off acrobatics. As for Peter Rasputin, it may be a
result of how he learned English - telepathic impression by
Professor Charles Xavier, rather than study and practice. Note
that while Ororo Monroe (Storm) did not have English as her native
language, she doesn't interject any swahili or arabic into her
speech - she seems to have learned English the old-fashioned way.
Jamie Rosen
>
> Ever seen a non-evil german scientist in a comic? Heck, ever seen a
> non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
Poor Kurt "Nightcrawler" Wagner can't be too happy you don't recall him,
especially since you mentioned him a few paragraphs later. :)
And didn't JLE/Alpha Flight's European tour have any non-Nazi Germans in it?
--
I'm happy, hope you're happy too.
Peter Meilinger
: "Mathew R. Ignash" (mig...@rust.net) writes:
:>
:> Ever seen a non-evil german scientist in a comic? Heck, ever seen a
:> non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
: Poor Kurt "Nightcrawler" Wagner can't be too happy you don't recall him,
: especially since you mentioned him a few paragraphs later. :)
Kurt kicks ass.
: And didn't JLE/Alpha Flight's European tour have any non-Nazi Germans in it?
I don't remember, actually. But there was a German superhero team in
Captain America. If I recall correctly they were after the Red Skull
for war crimes.
Pete
Mark Morgan
David Johnston
Perhaps you had to settle for a super-powered girlfriend. Naturally you
don't know since she preserves a secret identity.
Mark Morgan
>
> Mark Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Bryant Berggren wrote:
> > >
>
> Perhaps you had to settle for a super-powered girlfriend. Naturally you
> don't know since she preserves a secret identity.
Wife actually and her initials are JJ...
--
Mark Morgan
SD Anderson
> real live German and Dutch people who slip in and out of their
> native tongue without even realizing that they are doing it.
> This especially happens when they don't know the English word
> for a concept so they use their own and hope everyone gets it.
> (And a lot of the time you can, surprisingly.)
I had a translator in a conversation a while back. The person
I was talking to spoke spanish to my english. Of course the
translator eventually spoke to the other guy in English and turned
to me and spoke in spanish.
Bryant Berggren
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>>
>> Mark Morgan wrote:
>> >
>> > Bryant Berggren wrote:
>> > >
>> > Damn, I should have my super-powers by now.
>>
>> Perhaps you had to settle for a super-powered girlfriend. Naturally you
>> don't know since she preserves a secret identity.
>
>Wife actually and her initials are JJ...
>--
>Mark Morgan
Dude, if we ever experience a White Event, you better be ready. Fate's
got you highlighted. :]
BRB
Bekka
<<Alliteration! Lois Lane, Peter Parker, (sorta) Clark Kent, etc.>>
Actually a note of trivia here - Stan Lee in an interview said that he
gave many of his early characters - like Peter Parker - alliterative
names on purpose. Apparently it helped him remember their names,
something along the lines of "if I could remember either their first or
last name, I knew the other one began with the same letter and then I
could remember the whole". [That's not what he said, that's a
paraphrase.]
I don't know DC's excuse though. :)
-Bekka
Farewell Obi-wan.
Build bridges over rivers unfathomed now.
Sir Alec Guinness
1914-2000
Mathew R. Ignash
wrote:
> "Mathew R. Ignash" (mig...@rust.net) writes:
> >
> > Ever seen a non-evil german scientist in a comic? Heck, ever seen a
> > non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
>
> Poor Kurt "Nightcrawler" Wagner can't be too happy you don't recall him,
> especially since you mentioned him a few paragraphs later. :)
>
> And didn't JLE/Alpha Flight's European tour have any non-Nazi Germans in it?
Is Kurt actually a German citizen? He was abandoned as a baby and raised
by gypsies, so there is probably no record of his birth and no actual
citizenship. So he's of German descent, but not a German citizen.
Alpha Flight's world tour did have them go to Europe, they met a german
man... "Brain Drain" a former WWII Nazi scientist turned evil
cyborg/mentalist, left over from the pages of The Invaders! I rest my
case.
Mathew
fan
Bekka wrote:
> Jim (jime...@aol.com) writes:
>
> <<Alliteration! Lois Lane, Peter Parker, (sorta) Clark Kent, etc.>>
>
> Actually a note of trivia here - Stan Lee in an interview said that he
> gave many of his early characters - like Peter Parker - alliterative
> names on purpose. Apparently it helped him remember their names,
> something along the lines of "if I could remember either their first or
> last name, I knew the other one began with the same letter and then I
> could remember the whole". [That's not what he said, that's a
> paraphrase.]
>
> I don't know DC's excuse though. :)
>
If I had to guess, I'd say it simply bled over from the
Superman titles. I mean, Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince,
Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Wesley Dodds, Ted Grant,
you name 'em, DC didn't alliterate 'em -- except for
the whole "LL" running gag over in the Super-books.
AFAICT, then and only then did the schtick start to
become the norm . . .
Jamie Rosen
> On 17 Aug 2000 16:16:46 GMT, dq...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jamie Rosen)
> wrote:
>
>> "Mathew R. Ignash" (mig...@rust.net) writes:
>> >
>> > Ever seen a non-evil german scientist in a comic? Heck, ever seen a
>> > non-Nazi german person depicted in a comic book? I don't recall any.
>>
>> Poor Kurt "Nightcrawler" Wagner can't be too happy you don't recall him,
>> especially since you mentioned him a few paragraphs later. :)
>>
>> And didn't JLE/Alpha Flight's European tour have any non-Nazi Germans in it?
>
> Is Kurt actually a German citizen? He was abandoned as a baby and raised
> by gypsies, so there is probably no record of his birth and no actual
> citizenship. So he's of German descent, but not a German citizen.
Ah, but the question was about a "german person", not a "german citizen."
Born to Germans and raised in Germany, he qualifies as a German person,
albeit not as a citizen. :P :)
--
I'd be cranky if I had a rod stuck through my head.
SD Anderson
> that he gave many of his early characters - like Peter Parker -
> alliterative names on purpose. Apparently it helped him remember
> their names, something along the lines of "if I could remember
> either their first or last name, I knew the other one began with
> the same letter and then I could remember the whole". [That's
> not what he said, that's a paraphrase.]
> I don't know DC's excuse though. :)
Golden Age and 'true' Siver Age cases: probably the same.
Gerry Conway stated he intentionally had most of the characters in
the Firestorm series be Aliteratives (Ronnie Raymond, Doreen
Day, Cliff Carmichael...) just to see what sort of reaction he
got.
SD Anderson
> Superman titles. I mean, Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince,
> Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, Wesley Dodds, Ted Grant,
> you name 'em, DC didn't alliterate 'em -- except for
> the whole "LL" running gag over in the Super-books.
One specific nit: Though GL hit the stands before the actor
became well known, GL's secret identity almost was Alan Ladd, a
tie in to Aladdin, the actual source of the concept (Magic Ring,
Magic Lamp, do anything).
The editor thought it was a dumb idea and changed the last name
to Scott.
Chris
Super gets powers in unanticipated "radiation accident," and
automatically knows how they work. Nobody explains anything to
her/him, nobody understands what happened to her/him, but *bingo*,
s/he knows all about her/his mysterious powers.
Mathew R. Ignash
wrote:
> Ah, but the question was about a "german person", not a "german citizen."
> Born to Germans and raised in Germany, he qualifies as a German person,
> albeit not as a citizen. :P :)
But his mom was Mystique (pretending to be a german noblewoman), so at
best he was half-german!
Mathew
SD Anderson
> so at best he was half-german!
Was his birth recorded? The German government tends to look on
documentation as a requirement. And they can be fairly strict.
An engineer in Bavaria tried to name his son 'Che' after the
revolutionary Che Guevarra back in 1970. Two years later the
story was in the news and legally the child only had a number as
his legal name because the courts refused to allow 'Che' and his
parents refused to provide an 'acceptable' name for him.
Mathew R. Ignash
> > But his mom was Mystique (pretending to be a german noblewoman),
> > so at best he was half-german!
>
> Was his birth recorded? The German government tends to look on
> documentation as a requirement. And they can be fairly strict.
She gave birth in a castle, the baby was obviously non-human and she
morphed into a member of the mob that had gathered to kill the demon
baby and seemingly killed the kid. Who knows if the kids birth was
recorded, but officially he was dead, probably recorded as a stillbirth
if recorded at all. Kurt was then raised by the circus/gypsies or
whatever who were nomads, who protected his identity. So legally he's
either non-existant or dead, although he was born in germany of one
german and one foreign mutant parent pretending to be german.
Of course we still don't know too much about where Kurt's half-brother
Gradon Creed was born, other then he was the son of Mystique and
Sabretooth. Probaly in the US.
Mathew
Peter Meilinger
Y'know, it's synopses like the above (and thanks, by the way) that
make me glad I no longer read the X-Men.
Pete
Dawn Seven
I rest my case! :-)
Dawn
Walt Smith
Dawn Seven <Dawn7C...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> And guys complain about the twisted story plots in TV Soaps...
> I rest my case! :-)
To be fair, these twisted story plots did develop over a very
long time...decades worth of a couple of comics a month, at least
until the X-Book explosion created piles of interelated
mutant books every week. What was it...X-Men, X-Men Unlimited,
X-Factor, Generation X, Wolverine, X-Man, Deadpool, Excalibur,
etc., etc., etc,....
Mathew R. Ignash
> Villains who are effectively evil versions of the hero, for example The
> Crime Syndicate, Sinestro, Professor Zoom.
How about female versions of male heroes with similar powers, similar
costume (except usually showing more skin), and a feminized version of
their name?
Superman - Supergirl
Batman - Batgirl
Captain America - American Dream
Spider-Man - Spider-Woman
Supreme - Lady Supreme
Thing - She-Thing
Hulk - She-Hulk
Banshee - Siryn
Guardian - Vindicator II
Shaman - Talisman
Captain Marvel - Ms. Marvel
Yellowjacket - Yellowjacket II
Human Torch II - Nova II
Torpedo - Turbo
Namor - Namorita
Mathew