Nifty card combos
Talo...@hotmail.com
Intersted in seeing what other unusual and perhaps hidden little card
combos people may have. Not so much the common(ie: scorpion
sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but
just nifty little ones that might not be used as often.
ie:
=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament
Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage!
=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel
do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)!
Anyone else??
T
Halcyan 2
>=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament
>
>Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage!
Just as a reminder, don't forget that Increased Strength only improves
Fractured Armament as superior since the inferior doesn't do any damage.
>=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel
>
>do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)!
The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not
"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel.
Halcyan 2
James Coupe
>=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament
>
>Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage!
Requires equipment on the opposing minion. Touch-and-go at best.
It also needs superior Potence. At inferior, Fractured Armanent does
not inflict any damage so Increased Strength cannot modify it.
>=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel
>
>do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)!
Skin of Steel will prevent the opposing minion's strike. It will not
prevent the damage bomb does.
"Damage from a strike" does not include side-effect damage from a strike
you perform, only the damage the other minion inflicts upon you as a
strike.
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
EBD690ECD7A1F
What's the meaning when you speak with so much feeling? B457CA213D7E6
Is it over when you're sober? Is it junk? 68C3695D623D5D
Sorrow
> sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but
> just nifty little ones that might not be used as often.
Aside from the comments Halcyan2 and Mr. C{r}oupe :p made, I have
this to add: RTI/redeem/soul gem doesn't work anymore. RTI removes
the vamp from the game and as such makes it so that you cannot
Redeem the vamp as it wasn't burned. By that same token, since the
vamp was in fact not burned, Soul Gem will not kick in.
Sorrow
---
"I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection."
- Narrator
Talo...@hotmail.com
>>
>>=Increased Strength and Fractured Armament
>>
>>Break a minions gun over his head AND hit him for 2-3 damage!
>
>Just as a reminder, don't forget that Increased Strength only improves
>Fractured Armament as superior since the inferior doesn't do any damage.
>
Good call yes.
>>=Bomb, Dawn Op and Skin of Steel
>>
>>do 5 aggravated damage for 1 blood and 1 pool(from a fort deck)!
>
>The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not
>"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel.
>
Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take
a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure.
T
Talo...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
>Requires equipment on the opposing minion. Touch-and-go at best.
>
Yes but thats the point. Hardly common or game breaker combos, but
FUN ones to play.
T
Talo...@hotmail.com
True. That was the most degenerative combo of past days I could
remember. And thus the erratta as stated.
T
Gomi no Sensei
>>The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not
>>"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel.
>Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take
>a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure.
Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the
opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion
is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight
and Body of Sun.
gomi
--
Individually, I love you all with affection unspeakable; but, collectively,
I look upon you with a disgust that amounts to absolute detestation.
- Gilbert and Sullivan, 'Pirates of Penzance'
Henke
need I say more?
oh? so my prey has a deflection? Well... eh... screw you grandprey!!!
Pat Ricochet
> 12 Spiridonas+Fortitude skill card+Soul gem+bleed+daring the dawn++7 bleed
> need I say more?
> oh? so my prey has a deflection? Well... eh... screw you grandprey!!!
That's why he uses Force of Will instead, and the action to tap is Cull
the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =)
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
"You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."
Pat Ricochet
>
> Intersted in seeing what other unusual and perhaps hidden little card
> combos people may have. Not so much the common(ie: scorpion
> sting/wolfs claws) or the powermonger(RTI/redeem/soul gem) combos, but
> just nifty little ones that might not be used as often.
Well, we were sure all surprised when Mike Perlman was playing !Malks
and used Fake Out and Personal Scourge to neuter a .44's strike. =)
But, Matteus, the Flesh Sculptor, can Dodge, Blur, Fleshcraft, and then
Majesty and untap, ready to block the *next* guy, so he can tie tin cans to
HIS little butt, and make his prey particularly unstealthy.
Another Perlman one: Julius gets a Soul Gem. If he gets torped, he gets
burned, it's like an Effective Management.
Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap
calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they
haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but
Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =)
Tom Mad&Co
Cull
> the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =)
>
>
Better use a Revelations at inferior first. You could remove that Deflection
from your prey's hand.
Thought it reduces the bleed to +6.
This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo:
Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's
Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a
Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and
thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim.
Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo.
Tom Mad&Co
Pat Ricochet
>> That's why he uses Force of Will instead, and the action to tap is
> Cull
>> the Herd, to see where "da bomb" is going. =)
>
> Better use a Revelations at inferior first. You could remove that Deflection
> from your prey's hand.
> Thought it reduces the bleed to +6.
Yeah, but that takes an Auspex skill card (or a crypt of Spiridonas and
backup), since Spiridonas has [DOM pot pre THA], Tremere or not. No Auspex.
=(
> This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo:
>
> Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's
> Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a
> Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and
> thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim.
>
> Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo.
Now THAT'S a combo! But, how about a Bomb instead, and using it to
destroy your own Barrens? He (say, Etrius) could even use Forgotten
Labyrinth to make sure he gets away with it. Heck, you could nuke a Hunting
Ground or something if it's out there. Two for one sale! Use Meshenka to
destroy his own Hungry Coyote!
Funny that Beast is the most "Mind Rape Nuke" immune guy. I mean, you
can rush with him, but you can't Rave/Bauble/Force of Will, etc. It's hard
to cardlessly burn yourself.
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
"You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."
Doug
What card text or ruling for Bauble makes that happen? I realize that the
effect of the Bauble is to "transform the vampire into a weapon to be used by
another vampire", but that is not precisely what happens in V:TES terms.
Has there been a ruling that if the Baubled weapon is no longer in play that the
Bauble card (and hence the restrictions against acting and blocking) cannot be
burned?
Bauble
Type: Action
Discipline: Vicissitude
Blood Cost: 2
Card Text:
This is a +1 stealth action.
Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library and put a
non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you control.Do not pay
the cost to equip. The vampire with this card cannot attempt actions, block or
vote. You may burn this card and the chosen equipment card during your untap
phase or when the vampire with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled
region.
SUP: As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at any time.
Thanks
Doug
In article <9c0ju1$375$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net>, Tom Mad&Co says...
LSJ
>
> I guess I'm missing something on this one, does this somehow burn the victim?
> What card text or ruling for Bauble makes that happen? I realize that the
> effect of the Bauble is to "transform the vampire into a weapon to be used by
> another vampire", but that is not precisely what happens in V:TES terms.
Correct.
> Has there been a ruling that if the Baubled weapon is no longer in play that the
> Bauble card (and hence the restrictions against acting and blocking) cannot be
> burned?
No. You can burn the Bauble card (thus "releasing" the Baubling vampire) even
if the chosen equipment is no longer in play. You don't have to burn the
equipment "to" burn the Bauble card - you simply burn them both when you burn
the Bauble card.
>
> Bauble
> Type: Action
> Discipline: Vicissitude
> Blood Cost: 2
>
> Card Text:
>
> This is a +1 stealth action.
>
> Put this card on the acting vampire. Search through your library and put a
> non-unique, non-location equipment card on another minion you control.Do not pay
> the cost to equip. The vampire with this card cannot attempt actions, block or
> vote. You may burn this card and the chosen equipment card during your untap
> phase or when the vampire with the chosen equipment leaves the controlled
> region.
>
> SUP: As above, but you may burn this card and the chosen equipment at any time.
>
> Thanks
> Doug
>
> In article <9c0ju1$375$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net>, Tom Mad&Co says...
> >
> >This weekend here in Palma we talked about another nasty combo:
> >
> >Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's
> >Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a
> >Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and
> >thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim.
> >
> >Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo.
> >
> >Tom Mad&Co
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Ilse van Veen
>
> Say, Etrius in play. Put a Vicissitude master card on one of your prey's
> Vampires. Now Mind Rape it. On your next minion phase, that minion plays a
> Bauble and transforms itself in a Grenade. Etrius enters combat somehow, and
> thows his grenade. Now it's time to look for another victim.
>
> Ok, it's very unpractice but you can make a laugh after this combo.
Now THAT'S a combo! But, how about a Bomb instead, and using it to
destroy your own Barrens? He (say, Etrius) could even use Forgotten
Labyrinth to make sure he gets away with it. Heck, you could nuke a Hunting
Ground or something if it's out there. Two for one sale! Use Meshenka to
destroy his own Hungry Coyote
Talo...@hotmail.com
<sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote:
> Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap
>calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they
>haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but
>Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =)
>
Inventive! I rather like that one.
T
Talo...@hotmail.com
Sensei) wrote:
>In article <3ae534e6.236760081@news>, <Talo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>The Bomb damage you inflict to yourself is considered environmental damage (not
>>>"strike" damage) so you can't prevent it with a Skin of Steel.
>
>>Actually burning the bomb is a strike, so no. But id be happy to take
>>a strike in addition to pulling the trigger sure.
>
>Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the
>opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion
>is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight
>and Body of Sun.
>
>gomi
>
LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any
posted rulings already so I can show other players pls?
A strike is a strike is a strike by any other name in my book,
but.....;)
T
Derek Ray
>LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any
>posted rulings already so I can show other players pls?
from http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulings.html, under the Damage
(Combat) section near the very top, we find:
"Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing
target. Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike".
Therefore, self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of
Sunlight, Body of Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not
preventable by "prevent damage from a strike" effects like Skin of
Steel, Leather Jacket, etc. [LSJ 19970108]
Please TRY to do some basic research? Sheesh. And don't say "Bomb's
not listed!", because that's why the 'etc.' is there.
-- Derek
[generic .signature file]
James Coupe
>LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any
>posted rulings already so I can show other players pls?
"Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target.
Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore,
self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of
Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent
damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc.
[LSJ 19970108] [1] [2]
Gomi no Sensei
In fact, you can lay a skill card on the 2-cap the previous Master phase,
which further cuts your losses to only 2 pool. A 2-for-5 tradeoff starts
to look kind of attractive. Plus you put a small monkeywrench in some
bloat decks, who will use Ancient Influence for bloat supplementation.
R. David Zopf
> Yet another Perlman one: Weenies and Ancient Influence. Some 2 cap
>calls in on turn 2, doing 3 to himself, but 5 to his hapless prey (if they
>haven't gotten a vampire out.) I know, it sounds like a prayer combo, but
>Mike's gotten it off *way* too many times. =)
Heh. _Thats_ fun. I pulled that last Monday with Wantenda, and a
Bribes in hand (only cost me one pool net). I'd fall on that play
every time :-)
Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
Atom Weaver
LSJ
> go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote:
> >Damage from the Bomb to the opposing minion is a strike, yes, and the
> >opposing minion can Skin of Steel it. Bomb damage to the Bombing minion
> >is environmental, and not skin of steelable. Ditto for Burst of Sunlight
> >and Body of Sun.
>
> posted rulings already so I can show other players pls?
Skin of Steel prevents all damage from the opponent's strike. It cannot
prevent self-inflicted damage or other environmental damage. See the
online rulings on "Damage from a strike", or show this message itself
to other players.
Talo...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>In message <3ae9a1e8.330216202@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes
>>LSJ: confirm or deny please, with reference/link as necesary to any
>>posted rulings already so I can show other players pls?
>
>"Damage from a strike" only includes damage done to the opposing target.
>Side effect damage is not counted as "damage from a strike". Therefore,
>self-inflicted damage from Zip Gun, Grenade, Burst of Sunlight, Body of
>Sun, etc. is side effect damage and is not preventable by "prevent
>damage from a strike" effects like Skin of Steel, Leather Jacket, etc.
>[LSJ 19970108] [1] [2]
>
So opposing fort decks, the non-bomber can use SoS but the bomber
can't.
Ridiculous.
T
Talo...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
>Skin of Steel prevents all damage from the opponent's strike. It cannot
>prevent self-inflicted damage or other environmental damage. See the
>online rulings on "Damage from a strike", or show this message itself
>to other players.
>
SoS prevents damage from 'a strike' at inferior. I wasnt thinking of
superior.
T
LSJ
And, as indicated in the online rulings (as quoted by others), damage
from 'a strike' means damage from the opposing minion's strike.
Derek Ray
Card text for Skin of Steel:
"Prevent all damage from a strike. (S) As above, and prevent all
damage from opponent's strikes for the remainder of this round."
The inferior has been ruled, as we quoted at you, to be only usable
against an opponent's strikes, and not against your own
self-inflicted/environmental damage.
More simply put, you can't strike yourself in any way, shape, or form.
There isn't anything in the game to permit it. You can play cards
which produce effects that cause DAMAGE to yourself, but you can't
strike yourself. Therefore Skin of Steel, which only prevents
strikes, cannot prevent the environmental damage effects from things
like Bomb, Grenade, Body of Sun, etc.
Even MORE simply put, ...
- Skin of Steel prevents strikes.
- Bomb can be "... use as a strike in combat to do 5R, but bearer
suffers 5 damage as well." That is ORIGINAL JYHAD CARD TEXT, by the
way.
- You can't strike yourself, but you're taking damage from the Bomb.
- Ergo, the damage from your own Bomb is not a strike. (note that
card text supports this)
- Ergo, you can't prevent your own Bomb with Skin of Steel.
It's worth noting that original Jyhad card text on Grenade reads:
"3R. Burn after use. If used at close range, bearer suffers 1
damage." Again, Grenade does not produce a strike effect, so Skin of
Steel could NEVER have been used.
White Phosphorous Grenade reads:
"2R aggravated damage each strike. If White Phosphorus Grenade is used
at close range, the minion with this equipment takes 1 aggravated
damage. Burn after use." Again, card text does not produce a strike
effect to yourself.
Even the lowly Zip Gun reads:
"1R each strike with an optional maneuver each combat. Does 1 damage
to bearer when used, but only one for each combat."
So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your
own Bomb. Sorry.
James Coupe
>So opposing fort decks, the non-bomber can use SoS but the bomber
>can't.
Certainly.
This helps to stop potentially broken combos from becoming too powerful,
amongst other things. By making it an expensive combo for the attacker,
the power:cost ratio is maintained at a 'sensible' level. Since the
attacker either takes the strike (a cost) or they have to assemble a
number of other cards together to prevent it.
Talo...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>
>So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your
>own Bomb. Sorry.
>
No.
The ruling was necesary. The cards are quite obvious in their play
(strike/prevent damage from a strike).
The other grenade cards may have helped create the ruling, but do not
in themselves apply to other cards.
T
Derek Ray
>On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:23:09 -0400, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>So even WITHOUT a ruling, you wouldn't be able to Skin of Steel your
>>own Bomb. Sorry.
>
>No.
Oh, yes. Again, I refer to original Jyhad card text, which I will now
quote directly from the card in front of me.
"Weapon. Bearer may take a (D) action to burn a location.
Alternatively, use as a strike in combat to do 5R, but bearer suffers
5 damage as well. Burn after either use."
Keep this text in mind.
>The ruling was necesary. The cards are quite obvious in their play
>(strike/prevent damage from a strike).
Yes, the card IS quite obvious in its play.
You equip with a Bomb. You enter combat with a minion. You strike
with the Bomb for 5R damage to the opposing minion. Since you used it
as a strike, there are 5 points of environmental damage that you must
'suffer'.
I do not see anything that says the 5 points of damage you take is
from a strike, UNLIKE, say, Burst of Sunlight, which reads "Strike:
1R, aggravated, to all vampires in combat. (S) Strike: 2R, aggravated,
to all vampires in combat."
The ruling was VERY necessary for Burst of Sunlight. But for Bomb?
No, not even close. A simple reading of card text would have
sufficed. I made the same mistake long ago, PRIOR to the ruling we
quoted at you; our group sat down, had a look at Bomb's and Grenade's
text, and agreed "Nope, these don't say 'from a strike'. Can't use
Skin of Steel." So yes, the card is definitely quite obvious once you
actually READ it -- something I had originally failed to do.
Duncan Campbell
this...
Bring out Rufina (well, obviously), raise her capacity by 1 and equip her with
the Soul Gem. Get her down to 1 blood then do Force of Will, getting out
another Rufina when the first one is burned. This one calls Praxis Seizure:
{Berlin, Geneva, Cairo} and plays Cryptic Rider. Result: Capacity 3 with 1
blood. Now Force of Will again.
Repeat until your Infinite Improbability Drive stops or you get beaten to death
by other players.
Duncan Campbell
(falls through bar)
Dark Howler
"Duncan Campbell" <u11...@abdn.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3AE80D37...@abdn.ac.uk...
I beat that combo by continual EMP's which were burning all of the Rufina's
that came out...
Dark Howler
James Coupe
Howler <darkh...@bastardsquad.org> writes
>I beat that combo by continual EMP's which were burning all of the Rufina's
>that came out...
But they keep doing the same thing again and again and again, on the
same turn, *if* the combo pulls off. You don't get a chance to rush.