LSJ wisdom required
Reyda
during my journey to LA, i had some argument about certain cards with
seasoned players. Can you give us final answers for those questions ?
1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey controls. Is
it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ? I
think the former, but...
2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i play
Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i suppose
the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there is no
opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra superior
? After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a blood
?
3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this card.
i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another Thelemiss,
and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block with a
small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block with
an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both ? i
think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless night was
played. Am i right ?
thank you =)
reyda
wandering player
Roger Carhult
--
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9f1lij$psv$1...@neon.noos.net...
> hi Mr LSJ !
> during my journey to LA, i had some argument about certain cards with
> seasoned players. Can you give us final answers for those questions ?
>
> 1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey controls. Is
> it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ? I
> think the former, but...
It should be the former. At least the +1 stealth will still be there.
>
> 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i play
> Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i
suppose
> the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there is
no
> opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra
superior
> ? After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a
blood
> ?
Not sure but It's think he could diablerie on inferior of KoR. Rapid Healing
you cannot do unless you untap through Freak Drive first.
>
> 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
> to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this
card.
> i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another
Thelemiss,
> and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
Yes.
>
> 4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block with
a
> small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block with
> an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
> crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both ?
i
> think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless night
was
> played. Am i right ?
Both are tapped...by your reasoning Faceless would be useless then if
someone only blocked with one vampire.
>
>
> thank you =)
>
> reyda
> wandering player
>
I'm not LSJ but hopefully I was right on my answers :)
Gomi no Sensei
>hi Mr LSJ !
>during my journey to LA, i had some argument about certain cards with
>seasoned players. Can you give us final answers for those questions ?
>
>1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey controls. Is
>it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ? I
>think the former, but...
Both. It is a +1 stealth (D) action.
>2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i play
>Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i suppose
>the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there is no
>opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ?
Yes.
>what if i played Kiss of Ra superior?
What about it? The blocker would go to torpor per card text.
>After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a blood?
You'd be tapped, so you'd need a Freak Drive, Movement of the Slow
Body, be the target of a Precognizant Mobility, have a Rutor's Hand
on the minion, be a non-Alexandra Toreador while controlling Alexandra,
or be a recipient of Patronage. Assuming you could get untapped,
sure, Rapid Healing would be legal.
>3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
>to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this card.
>i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another Thelemiss,
>and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
He could Wake and Misdirect again, if he had the cards in hand, but I
don't think he can Misdirect with the same vampire again, although the
Wake remains in effect (the Woken vampire could Telepathic Counter or
My Enemy's Enemy, for instance).
>4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block with a
>small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block with
>an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
>crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both ? i
>think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless night was
>played. Am i right ?
Both are tapped. Such is the Awesome Power of Faceless Night.
Breaking it down:
ReydaB attempts to block StealthyGuy.
StealthyGuy plays Faceless Night. At the moment FN is played,
ReydaB is still attempting to block StealthyGuy, so FN's text
affects ReydaB.
ReydaB gives up the block attempt, but remains subject to FN's text.
ReydaC (with bike) attempts to block StealthyGuy and becomes
subject to FN's text.
StealthyGuy gains stealth, bypasses ReydaC.
Action succeeds, ReydaB and ReydaC tap.
gomi
--
"I wanted to feel that tug of a body as it jerks and kicks while I hold
the handle and the life erupts from it like water from the cold springs
of the Eastern Mountains. That's what I wanted, and what you want makes
you who you are." - Steven Brust, Teckla
Robert Goudie
> during my journey to LA, i had some argument about certain cards with
> seasoned players. Can you give us final answers for those questions ?
>
> 1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey controls. Is
> it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ? I
> think the former, but...
+1 Stealth is not the opposite of "Directed Action". The card says the
action is at +1 stealth. If you directed it at another methuselah's minion,
the action is directed at them. Only the targeted player may block the
action.
> 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
> to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this
card.
> i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another
Thelemiss,
> and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
If he first declined to block then you are correct that he cannot play
another telemisdirection and has already declined to block. If he first
misdirected the bleed before deciding whether or not to block then there is
still an opportunity to block.
-Robert
Reyda
> > 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i
play
> > Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i
> suppose
> > the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there
is no
> > opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra
superior ?
> > After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a
blood
>
Healing
> you cannot do unless you untap through Freak Drive first.
You play kiss of ra when someone *attempts* to block, not when someone
actually blocks. you block the action yourself by playing this card. Thus
diablerie cannot occur, imho... Else the inferior or superior Kiss of Ra +
Change of target combo would be very strange. For the freak drive thing,
thanks but i knew that. I just wanted to know if it was against the NRA rule
to leave torpor twice. I think not due to its application on Bum's rush and
Ambush, wich can be performed on the same turn by the same vampire. But it's
always useful to ask =)
> > 4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block
with
> a
> > small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block
with
> > an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
> > crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both
? i
> > think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless night
was
> > played. Am i right ?
>
> Both are tapped...by your reasoning Faceless would be useless then if
> someone only blocked with one vampire.
Useless ? not sure ! it is powerful because it threatens you to have all
your vampire tapped if you are trying to block with multiple minions. But if
it taps you even if you tried to block before it was played (which a lot of
people think), just imagine what can happen in this scenario:
Vamp with sup obfuscate tries to bleed you. You have 4 vampire, all
untapped. The first has a sport bike, the second two raven spies, the third
is a prince with another sport bike and the fourth is a small vamp with
nothing on him. You try to block the incoming bleed with that 4th vamp
first. Opposing vamp plays Cloak the gathering = 1 stealth. You then try to
play with the first one. Opposing vamp plays swallowed by the night=2
stealth. you decide to block with the third, opposing vamp then plays
inferior faceless night jus to taunt you and commit the prince to block=3
stealth. of course, your biker prince plays 2nd tradition to block at +3
intercept.Opp vampire then plays a faceless night. You guess what ? if you
play this card the way you think, ALL the vampires are tapped because they
attempted to block the action. Even before faceless night was played.
Honestly I really don't think this card works that way.
what about superior Faceless night + superior Elder impersonation then ?
reyda
Pat Ricochet
>
>>> 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i
> play
>>> Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i
>> suppose
>>> the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there
> is no
>>> opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra
> superior ?
>>> After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a
> blood
>>
>> Not sure but It's think he could diablerie on inferior of KoR. Rapid
> Healing
>> you cannot do unless you untap through Freak Drive first.
>
> You play kiss of ra when someone *attempts* to block, not when someone
> actually blocks. you block the action yourself by playing this card. Thus
> diablerie cannot occur, imho... Else the inferior or superior Kiss of Ra +
> Change of target combo would be very strange. For the freak drive thing,
> thanks but i knew that. I just wanted to know if it was against the NRA rule
> to leave torpor twice. I think not due to its application on Bum's rush and
> Ambush, wich can be performed on the same turn by the same vampire. But it's
> always useful to ask =)
Rapid Healing is a "leave torpor" action, and by NRA you would not be
allowed to do it. (Note "Rush" isn't in the rule book as an action type,
though maybe it should be, if only for ease of wording in new card ideas
that modify/react to rushes.)
"Rapid Healing is a type of "leave torpor" action. [LSJ 19980126]"
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
"You can't make a fact out of an opinion by raising your voice."
Reyda
"Pat Ricochet"
> Rapid Healing is a "leave torpor" action, and by NRA you would not be
> allowed to do it. (Note "Rush" isn't in the rule book as an action type,
> though maybe it should be, if only for ease of wording in new card ideas
> that modify/react to rushes.)
>
> "Rapid Healing is a type of "leave torpor" action. [LSJ 19980126]"
thank you for this concise and exact answer =)
reyda
Sylvain Gogel
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> a écrit dans le message news:
9f1lij$psv$1...@neon.noos.net...
> hi Mr LSJ !
> during my journey to LA, i had some argument about certain cards with
> seasoned players. Can you give us final answers for those questions ?
>
> 1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey
controls. Is
> it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ?
I
> think the former, but...
The former
>
> 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i
play
> Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i
suppose
> the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there
is no
> opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra
superior
> ? After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a
blood
> ?
I think the blocker can attempt diablerie with KoR inferor, not superior
>
> 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the
bleed
> to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this
card.
> i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another
Thelemiss,
> and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
right
>
> 4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block
with a
> small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block
with
> an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
> crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or
both ? i
> think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless
night was
> played. Am i right ?
both are tapped
>
>
> thank you =)
>
> reyda
> wandering player
>
Hi reyda! thanks for the dream, do not forget the Dirty Little Secret
:o)
Could you publish/send me you toreador/obf deck ?
Jason Bell
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote
> 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
> to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this
card.
> i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another
Thelemiss,
> and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
I don't think so. Since the Direct Intervention prevented the Misdirection
from resolving, it does not trigger the NRA rule, so he should be free
to play another Misdirection under the same Wake.
I'm prepared to be wrong.
- Jason Bell
Roger Carhult
--
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9f1rjf$3q$1...@neon.noos.net...
>
> > > 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i
> play
> > > Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i
> > suppose
> > > the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there
> is no
> > > opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra
> superior ?
> > > After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a
> blood
> >
> > Not sure but It's think he could diablerie on inferior of KoR. Rapid
> Healing
> > you cannot do unless you untap through Freak Drive first.
>
> You play kiss of ra when someone *attempts* to block, not when someone
> actually blocks. you block the action yourself by playing this card. Thus
> diablerie cannot occur, imho... Else the inferior or superior Kiss of Ra +
> Change of target combo would be very strange. For the freak drive thing,
> thanks but i knew that. I just wanted to know if it was against the NRA
rule
> to leave torpor twice. I think not due to its application on Bum's rush
and
> Ambush, wich can be performed on the same turn by the same vampire. But
it's
> always useful to ask =)
Hmm you're right about he combo but how can the combo work in any case since
the KoR makes the action blocked?? I don't think the CoT combo does work in
this case...? Umm LSJ where are you? ;)
Either I mistunderstood your question or you misunderstood my answer ;) You
didn't word your question like this. You said:
4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block with
a
small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block with
an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both.
In this case it would be both. In the case above it would only be the last
vampire. You tap the vampire you tried to block with when Faceless was
played AND all vampires you try to block wither *after that one" as well.
Thus means in your case above that it's only the last vampire because that
was when you played Faceless Night. Hadsd you tried to block with a new
vampire after that one too you'd tap that vampire as well but not all the
others as you state because Faceless wasn't played then. So if you only
block with one vampire and he played Faceless that vampire remains tapped as
per card text.
Faceless Night
+1 stealth.
SUP: +1 stealth, and any vampire that attempts to block this action is
tapped when the block succeeds or when that vampire's controller decides not
to block.
If you block with Watenda and Agrippina played Faceless Night then Watenda
cannot block it anymmore because he has no intercept, he fits into the
card's text of "that vampire's controller decides not to block". Note that
FN speaks in presens tempus ("attempts") so it doesn't cover the vampires
who tries to block before FN was played but it *does* cover the vampire who
tried to block when FN was played and not only the subsequent vampires.
Reyda
"Jason Bell" <Jason...@mail.com> a écrit dans le message news:
JO2R6.60827$i56.19...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
hey dude ! it has *nothing* to do with NRA (Non Repeat Action) rule !!
remember the same vampire cannot play the same action modifier or reaction
card twice on a single action.
> I'm prepared to be wrong.
considering your last two sentences, you are obviously wrong =)
hey, LSJ, it's time to show up !!
Christoph
> another telemisdirection and has already declined to block. If he first
> misdirected the bleed before deciding whether or not to block then there
is
> still an opportunity to block.
I thought that playing Deflection/Redirection/TelMisdirection implicitely
declared that you weren't blocking...?
Sorrow
---
"Just once I'd like a childhood memory I don't have to repress."
- Malcolm
Roger Carhult
--
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote in message news:9f385j$8vr$1...@neon.noos.net...
Read Mr Wieck's post of why LSJ might be slow on responding for a while.
LSJ
> 1- I perform a 5th tradition, and name a vampire my grandprey controls. Is
> it still a +1 stealth action, or does it suddenly become a D action ? I
> think the former, but...
It still has +1 stealth (card text).
It is directed. [6.2.2.2]
> 2- I attempt to leave torpor. A tzimisce bozo attempts to block me, i play
> Kiss of Ra inferior. Kiss of ra says "the action is blocked", but i suppose
> the cards itself blocks the action, not the "kissed" vampire. so there is no
> opportunity of diablerie. Am i right ? what if i played Kiss of Ra superior
Correct. Superior is the same.
> ? After this, can i take a "Rapid healing" to leave torpor and gain a blood
> ?
Sure, if you can untap. You must be untapped to take a Rapid Healing action.
> 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
> to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this card.
> i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another Thelemiss,
> and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
The same vampire cannot play TeleMiss, but others can (or the first vampire could
play Redirection or Deflection, etc.).
At any rate, the Methuselah gets another opportunity to block. Any time the target
of an action changes, a new "choose blockers" opportunity results. [RTR 19970630]
> 4- I am bled by a vampire with superior obfuscate. I attempt to block with a
> small vamp. Acting vamp plays Faceless night. I then attempt to block with
> an other vampire equipped with a sport bike. Acting vamp plays Lost in
> crowd, to get more stealth. block is failed. who is tapped ? one or both ? i
> think only the second vamp, who attempted to block AFTER faceless night was
> played. Am i right ?
Both (all) vampires who attempted to block are tapped.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ
> > You play kiss of ra when someone *attempts* to block, not when someone
> > actually blocks. you block the action yourself by playing this card. Thus
> > diablerie cannot occur, imho... Else the inferior or superior Kiss of Ra +
> > Change of target combo would be very strange. For the freak drive thing,
> > thanks but i knew that. I just wanted to know if it was against the NRA rule
> > to leave torpor twice. I think not due to its application on Bum's rush and
> > Ambush, wich can be performed on the same turn by the same vampire. But it's
> > always useful to ask =)
>
> Rapid Healing is a "leave torpor" action, and by NRA you would not be
> allowed to do it. (Note "Rush" isn't in the rule book as an action type,
> though maybe it should be, if only for ease of wording in new card ideas
> that modify/react to rushes.)
>
> "Rapid Healing is a type of "leave torpor" action. [LSJ 19980126]"
Correct. My original answer didn't address the NRA issue.
Jason Bell
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote
> >
> > > 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the
> bleed
> > > to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this
> > card.
> > > i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another
> > Thelemiss,
> > > and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
> >
> > I don't think so. Since the Direct Intervention prevented the
> Misdirection
> > from resolving, it does not trigger the NRA rule, so he should be free
> > to play another Misdirection under the same Wake.
>
> hey dude ! it has *nothing* to do with NRA (Non Repeat Action) rule !!
> remember the same vampire cannot play the same action modifier or reaction
> card twice on a single action.
>
> > I'm prepared to be wrong.
>
> considering your last two sentences, you are obviously wrong =)
Since the first never resolved, it does not fall under the
twice on single action prohibition, as I understand it.
Since you chose to be rude when I was only trying to be
helpful, I will make it a point not to respond to your posts
in the future.
- Jason Bell
From V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata: Feb. 16, 2001
Direct Intervention [SAB] - Master: Out-of-Turn (1)
Since the NRA rule is applied to the acting minion when the action resolves
(is blocked or is successful), the minion whose action card is canceled by
Direct Intervention is free to attempt the same type of action again, even
with (another copy of) the same card. [LSJ 19980212] ...
LSJ
> "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote
> > "Jason Bell" <Jason...@mail.com> a écrit
> > > "Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> wrote
> > > > 3- My predator declines to block a bleed, then wakes and bounces the bleed
> > > > to me with thelepatic misdirection. I play Direct intervention on this card.
> > > > i guess he must take the bleed then, cause he cannot play another Thelemiss,
> > > > and does lost the opportunity to block. am i right ?
> > >
> > > I don't think so. Since the Direct Intervention prevented the Misdirection
> > > from resolving, it does not trigger the NRA rule, so he should be free
> > > to play another Misdirection under the same Wake.
> >
> > hey dude ! it has *nothing* to do with NRA (Non Repeat Action) rule !!
> > remember the same vampire cannot play the same action modifier or reaction
> > card twice on a single action.
> Since the first never resolved, it does not fall under the
> twice on single action prohibition, as I understand it.
>
> From V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata: Feb. 16, 2001
> Direct Intervention [SAB] - Master: Out-of-Turn (1)
> Since the NRA rule is applied to the acting minion when the action resolves
> (is blocked or is successful), the minion whose action card is canceled by
> Direct Intervention is free to attempt the same type of action again, even
> with (another copy of) the same card. [LSJ 19980212] ...
The NRA rule only applies to actions - it doesn't restrict or even address
action modifiers or reaction cards (like Telepathic Misdirection). Action
modifiers and reaction cards are restricted by "play" not by "resolution"
(whereas the NRA rule restricts actions by "resolution").
Reyda
"Jason Bell" <Jason...@mail.com>
> > considering your last two sentences, you are obviously wrong =)
(snip)
> Since you chose to be rude when I was only trying to be
> helpful, I will make it a point not to respond to your posts
> in the future.
>
> - Jason Bell
Hey, don't get upset, i didn't meant to be insulting =)
I only wanted precise information (that's why i put LSJ in the subject) and
your answer was very innacurate. I was just trying to point where your error
was : quoting the NRA when i talk about Reaction cards. I have no interest
in being nasty with you, jason. If you don't want to respond my future
posts, i won't give a damn though ;)
reyda
Jason Bell
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> Jason Bell wrote:
> > Since the first never resolved, it does not fall under the
> > twice on single action prohibition, as I understand it.
> >
> > From V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata: Feb. 16, 2001
> > Direct Intervention [SAB] - Master: Out-of-Turn (1)
> > Since the NRA rule is applied to the acting minion when the action
resolves
> > (is blocked or is successful), the minion whose action card is canceled
by
> > Direct Intervention is free to attempt the same type of action again,
even
> > with (another copy of) the same card. [LSJ 19980212] ...
>
> The NRA rule only applies to actions - it doesn't restrict or even address
> action modifiers or reaction cards (like Telepathic Misdirection). Action
> modifiers and reaction cards are restricted by "play" not by "resolution"
> (whereas the NRA rule restricts actions by "resolution").
That seems odd to me, since both would appear to be in the same
spirit, but alright.
Why is "resolution" important in one no-repeat case, but only "play"
in the other? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to be
able to explain the rules to my play group with enough clarity
to avoid everyone getting frustrated. Currently, I have no idea
how to explain to someone why the same card (Direct
Intervention) would affect two cards (an action vs. a reaction) in
two different ways (to use MtG terms, to "counter" the first,
while "fizzleing" the second).
- Jason Bell
LSJ
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> > The NRA rule only applies to actions - it doesn't restrict or even address
> > action modifiers or reaction cards (like Telepathic Misdirection). Action
> > modifiers and reaction cards are restricted by "play" not by "resolution"
> > (whereas the NRA rule restricts actions by "resolution").
>
> That seems odd to me, since both would appear to be in the same
> spirit, but alright.
> Why is "resolution" important in one no-repeat case, but only "play"
> in the other? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just want to be
> able to explain the rules to my play group with enough clarity
> to avoid everyone getting frustrated. Currently, I have no idea
> how to explain to someone why the same card (Direct
> Intervention) would affect two cards (an action vs. a reaction) in
> two different ways (to use MtG terms, to "counter" the first,
> while "fizzleing" the second).
For much the same reaons that the cost for an action is paid upon
successful resolution whereas the cost of an action modifier is
paid when the card is played.
NRA works on resolution because:
* not all actions requires cards to be played (bleed, hunt, burn Army of
Rats, etc.)
* it needs to be able to handle Mask of a Thousand Faces correctly
(limiting the final actor, not the intermediary ones).
Jason Bell
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
Thanks. While there are some unsatisfying things about this
explanation, it is understandable in the context of the complex
card interactions.
One last point, if my Deflection gets hit by a Direct
Intervention, do I untap the vampire who reacted, and
do I recover the 1 blood my vampire paid to play Deflection?
- Jason Bell
Pat Ricochet
> One last point, if my Deflection gets hit by a Direct
> Intervention, do I untap the vampire who reacted, and
> do I recover the 1 blood my vampire paid to play Deflection?
>
> - Jason Bell
Per card text of Direct Intervention, you recover any blood or pool
spent. You don't actually *untap* in the game; no effect of the card takes
place, neither the bounce of the bleed or the tapping of the vampire. In a
real game, of course, you might tap the guy just as you play the card, but
if he had Charnas on him, for instance, he wouldn't take the point of damage
from untapping; the minion was never actually tapped, and you only turned
the card sideways prematurely.
LSJ
> > One last point, if my Deflection gets hit by a Direct
> > Intervention, do I untap the vampire who reacted, and
> > do I recover the 1 blood my vampire paid to play Deflection?
> > - Jason Bell
>
> Per card text of Direct Intervention, you recover any blood or pool
> spent. You don't actually *untap* in the game; no effect of the card takes
> place, neither the bounce of the bleed or the tapping of the vampire. In a
> real game, of course, you might tap the guy just as you play the card, but
> if he had Charnas on him, for instance, he wouldn't take the point of damage
> from untapping; the minion was never actually tapped, and you only turned
> the card sideways prematurely.
Correct. The Deflecting vampire would remain untapped. If he was already
tapped and used Wakey to Deflect, he would likewise remain tapped.
Direct Intervention cancels the reaction card, including the part that
taps the reacting vampire. DI explicitly refunds the cost of the card.