*F* belated Reading meet report
Darrell Ottery
Some time ago (well, last Wednesday to be nice about it) a small group
of us decided to try a different pub for a change. It was a good
evening.
What you want more? Oh, alright then.
Attendees:
Meself, Adam, Claire, Elaine (MisElaineous), Mike Gilbert, Gideon (and
his suit...), Adrian Ogden and one or two others who I don't recall but
who I'm sure weren't just figments of my imagination.
I turned up a few minutes later than 7:30 (I'd been reading afp and the
time had slipped by) to find Adam and Claire sitting looking somewhat
lost. Fortunately by means of carefully coded signals we were able to
deternine who each other was, mainly by me going up to him and saying
'Hi, you're Adam, right?'. And they said I'm not subtle...
The rest of the gang turned a bit later, beer was consumed as well as
cider, food wasn't purchased 'cos they'd shut down the food bar mere
minutes before we were hungry, and topics of conversation ranged from
Acorn advocacy, geek things, the politics of Reading Uni's CS dept, kids
TV theme tunes, how to remember phone numbers, and some other stuff.
Normal sort of meet conversation, really.
We did try at one point to bring some sort of *R*elevancy to the table
by discussing casting and the adaption of WS (which I haven't seen yet
*muttergrumblepoxyC4reception*) and then, having carefully avoided the
pub across from my place since it was quiz night, got roped into the
local quiz night here. Bah!
Still, given that this was afp, and we ought to be rather good at
obscure trivia we entered and gave it a go.
We scored quite badly... So, just to show that we weren't entirely dim,
and the the quizbook was out of date and rather dubious, I'll attach the
questions to the end of this. I think they didn't like us being accurate
in our answers myself, and recourse to a Psion, an atlas, and a tape
measure proved to be necessary for some of the answers.
That was pretty much it - folk moved off around 10:30 or so, it being a
week night. A good evening, at least IMO, and a nice change to see some
new faces. For those that missed it, tough. But there's likely to be
another meet in the area fairly soon for the reason that I'm moving
house. Once I know myself where I'm living I'll organise another one,
probably in a month/six weeks or so, depending on what else is going on
at the time.
Anyway, the quiz questions:
1. What are the three primary colours of light?
2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
3. How long is a 5UKP note? [1]
4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
5. In which bay is Alcatraz sited? [2]
6. Which dwarf could spin straw into gold?
7. How many in a score?
8. Where did the orange originate?
9. By what name is scorpion grass better known?
10. How did Emperor Nero die? [3]
11. Which sense did Milton lose?[4]
12. Who wrote 'The Godfather'? [5]
13. Which brewery brews 'Boxing Hare'?
14. What is the most north-easterly state in the US? [6]
[1] And we bloody well measured this with a handy ruler. And *still* got
it wrong... We figured the book was out of date and was referring to the
old (but not white) fivers.
[2] We didn't get a bonus point for known what the number of the public
call box is. +1 415 421 8542, if anyone's interested.
[3] Apparently not from oxygen deprivation to the brain.
[4] Not humour.
[5] Not Marlon Brando.
[6] US geography not being a specialist subject both a Psion and a world
atlas were brought into play here. We did get the point for this one...
--
Darrell [INTJ] - Dar...@lspace.org - http://www.toreador.demon.co.uk/
Time to raze humanity and let evolution start over, preferably without
marketers.
Bah Reah...
Super Fluous (se...@icon.co.za) wrote:
: Murky B <mu...@lspace.org> wrote in article
: <3398b6f1...@news.ftech.net>...
: > In alt.fan.pratchett, Darrell Ottery was seen to say...
: > >1. What are the three primary colours of light?
: >
: > Red/Green/Blue
: >
: > >2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
: >
: > Hamelin
: >
: > >3. How long is a 5UKP note? [1]
: >
: > Dunno. haven't got one. I saw the footnote, I'd have been marching
: > toward the landlord with a ruler, a fiver and an earnest look of
: > complaint.
: >
: > >4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
: >
: > What sort of crappy question is that? They could be after the read end
: > (probably higher intensity due to the blue end being scattered by the
: > atmosphere more). They could be after the blue end (analogy with Black
: > body radiation).
: >
: > I'll leave it here and give someone else a go.
: >
: > Murky B
: try a smart arse answer, the source of a rainbow must be the sun (reflected
: light and all) so that would be the hottest part.
: sean
or you could try the downright `orrible answer in that i`m the
hottest part of the raionbow cuz i`m the pot of gold at the end (in
respect to the female population o`course....)
mark...
Colette Reap
mu...@lspace.org (Murky B) wrote:
>>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
>
>What sort of crappy question is that? They could be after the read end
>(probably higher intensity due to the blue end being scattered by the
>atmosphere more). They could be after the blue end (analogy with Black
>body radiation).
>
Given that a rainbow is a floating circle, I would have said the top
side (the side facing the sun)...
Colette (a.k.a The Bellinghwoman)
--
The Goddess You Can Worship Between Services Without Ruining Your Appetite
Gideon Hallett
On Tue, 03 Jun 1997 08:03:38 GMT, god...@lspace.org (Colette Reap)
spoke in tongues:
>mu...@lspace.org (Murky B) wrote:
>
>>>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
>>
>>What sort of crappy question is that? They could be after the read end
>>(probably higher intensity due to the blue end being scattered by the
>>atmosphere more). They could be after the blue end (analogy with Black
>>body radiation).
>>
>Given that a rainbow is a floating circle, I would have said the top
>side (the side facing the sun)...
In that case, what about double rainbows? They're reversed.
(I'm not really surprised that we didn't come first in the quiz, since
we didn't know the scorpion grass or the beer, but I'm a bit miffed
that they didn't accept "poison" as Nero's death - yes, he poisoned
himself, but what actually killed him was the poison[1]).
We had quite an animated debate over what the hottest part of the
rainbow was, though...
Stoopid snackin' frackin' pub quiz books. It's such a pain when you
know the "correct" answers were incorrect. However, it's really not
worth kicking up a fuss about.
And we should have got a bonus mark for giving Alcatraz's phone
number...
It was a fun evening, though. And I swear faithfully _never_ to turn
up to an afpmeet in a suit again. Not even if it means carrying around
a change of clothes ...;)
Gideon.
[1] I remembered the whole "death of Nero" story in the station going
back to London. Quis artifex pereo? (what an egomaniac...)
Gideon_...@3mail.3com.com --- "Have you ever spent days
and days and days making up flavours of ice cream no-one's
ever eaten before? Like chicken and telephone ice cream?
Super Fluous
Murky B <mu...@lspace.org> wrote in article
<3398b6f1...@news.ftech.net>...
> In alt.fan.pratchett, Darrell Ottery was seen to say...
> >1. What are the three primary colours of light?
>
> Red/Green/Blue
>
> >2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
>
> Hamelin
>
> >3. How long is a 5UKP note? [1]
>
> Dunno. haven't got one. I saw the footnote, I'd have been marching
> toward the landlord with a ruler, a fiver and an earnest look of
> complaint.
>
> >4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
>
> What sort of crappy question is that? They could be after the read end
> (probably higher intensity due to the blue end being scattered by the
> atmosphere more). They could be after the blue end (analogy with Black
> body radiation).
>
Gideon Hallett
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:21:56 +0100, Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org>
spoke in tongues:
>Anyway, the quiz questions:
>
<snip>
>6. Which dwarf could spin straw into gold?
>7. How many in a score?
I think the answer to this has to be "Variable - depending on the age
of the quiz book"
Gideon.
Colette Reap
al...@lspace.org (The Bellinghman) wrote:
>god...@lspace.org (Colette Reap) wrote:
>
>>>>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
>>
>>Given that a rainbow is a floating circle, I would have said the top
>>side (the side facing the sun)...
>
>But the sun's in the opposite direction, dearest ... draw a line from
>the sun to the centre of the rainbow's circle, and it'll go through your
>head.
>
...which is more than coherent thoughts about physics do before 9am.
Time for a quiet lie-down in a darkened room, I think :-)
Colette (a.k.a The Boojette, apparently)
Michael Dimmick
In article <xbuPUlAU...@toreador.demon.co.uk>,
Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> writes:
Lets see how I do...
>1. What are the three primary colours of light?
Red, green and blue, no?
>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
Hamlin.
>3. How long is a 5UKP note? [1]
Depends which edge you measure. Err, about 2cm shorter than a
tenner. A tenner is 142mm long (why the heck 142mm? It's not a round
number of inches, either)
>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
Given that a rainbow is created by light refracted by water droplets,
it's got to be the sun.
>5. In which bay is Alcatraz sited? [2]
Not a clue. Is is somewhere near New York? Hudson Bay?
>6. Which dwarf could spin straw into gold?
Nope, I've forgotten. Rumplestiltskin?
>7. How many in a score?
20.
>8. Where did the orange originate?
? Spain? <g>.
>9. By what name is scorpion grass better known?
Haven't heard of it.
>10. How did Emperor Nero die? [3]
Stabbed himself. 'With his eyes popped out,' apparently.
>11. Which sense did Milton lose?[4]
>12. Who wrote 'The Godfather'? [5]
>13. Which brewery brews 'Boxing Hare'?
>14. What is the most north-easterly state in the US? [6]
Washington?
Anyone been trying the Firkin pub quizzes? 'My' Orienteering Club
keeps trying to do the one in our local (Faculty, Holt St, Brum) of a
Tuesday evening and aren't terribly good at it. Most we've ever got
was 22/30, IIRC.
--
Michael Dimmick | ".sig, .sig, wherefore art thou .sig?"
Don't spam me! I bite back... | <http://www.aston.ac.uk/~dimmicmj/>
Ben Hutchings
In article <xbuPUlAU...@toreador.demon.co.uk>,
Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> wrote:
>1. What are the three primary colours of light?
There are no such things, but the human eye detects red, green and blue
bands so these are considered to be the primary colours.
>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
Hamelin.
>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
Since a rainbow is an optical illusion, the question is meaningless.
>5. In which bay is Alcatraz sited? [2]
San Francisco Bay.
>6. Which dwarf could spin straw into gold?
Rumpelstiltskin?
>7. How many in a score?
20.
>8. Where did the orange originate?
Spain? (naranja)
>9-13
No idea.
>14. What is the most north-easterly state in the US? [6]
Vermont, I think. I'd like to know how one could rigorously define
'most north-easterly' though.
--
Ben Hutchings,|finger m95...@booth42.ecs.ox.ac.uk|mail benjamin.hutchings@
compsci&mathmo|lynx http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0223|worcester.oxford.ac.uk
Earn cash in your spare time - blackmail your friends
Alex Kamilewicz
Bjorn Fridgeir Bjornsson <bers...@vortex.is> incorrectly wrote:
> > 14. What is the most north-easterly state in the US? [6]
>
> Vermont at a guess... or New England.
> (What a stupid thing to guess at... but no, I'm not
> going to check.)
Well, New England isn't a state. I'd guess Maine, with the most
northeasterly point being Quoddy Head Lighthouse.
--
Alex Kamilewicz
(40% of thesis complete...stalled)
Barbara Reed
> >In article <xbuPUlAU...@toreador.demon.co.uk>,
> > Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> writes:
> >
> >Lets see how I do...
> >
> >>1. What are the three primary colours of light?
> >Red, green and blue, no?
>
> No... basic primary colo(u)rs: Yellow, blue, and red. But I've faint
> memories of cyan being involved somewhere, for light... any theatre
> techies out there?
>
No, he's right. red., green, and blue, any one of which will absorb the other two.
Yellow, cyan, and magenata are the 'complementary' colours (-blue, -red, and -green
IIRR
Barbara
Tom De Mulder
The Bellinghman wrote,
Probably because of quantum:
>(And before I get pedant pointed, yes, I'm aware of very rare
>atmospheric phenomena that include rings round the sun and even tertiary
>or worse arcs below it, beside it and above it - they aren't rainbows,
>though. Nor aliens, though a lot of them get categorised as such.)
Those rings aren't caused by diffraction through water-droplets, as
rainbows are. There are two sorts: sun dogs (reflections of the sun on
plate ice crystals in cirrus clouds) and halo's (a ring round the sun at
22º [1] distance). Also possible is the large halo (at 46º), but that's an
extremely rare phenomenon.
Well, actually, there's more than two sorts. Summing them all up would be
a giant task, I refer interested people to the excellent work "Light and
colour of the outdoors", by M.G.J. Minnaert [2] ("with 223 figures and 49
colour plates"), published by Springer Verlag.
ISBN 0-387-97935-2 (hardcover)
ISBN 0-387-94413-3 (softcover)
1] Pardon the high-ascii.
2] Yes, an actual Belgian writer. <g>
--
+____ *
. \ / . Tom De Mulder
\/ . (to...@dma.be)
* +
Stig M. Valstad
glinda-...@eskimo.com (G.L. Wilson) wrote:
>Long ago 3 Jun 1997 12:06:41 GMT, on a Usenet far, far away,
>xdim...@aston.ac.uk (Michael Dimmick) elucidated:
>
>>In article <xbuPUlAU...@toreador.demon.co.uk>,
>>Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> writes:
>>
>>Lets see how I do...
>>
>>>1. What are the three primary colours of light?
>>Red, green and blue, no?
>
>No... basic primary colo(u)rs: Yellow, blue, and red. But I've faint
>memories of cyan being involved somewhere, for light... any theatre
>techies out there?
Primary colours
for light: Red, blue and green.
for painters: Red, blue and yellow.
for 4 colour process printing: Cyan, Magenta and Yellow
(+ black bacause you can never mix a pure black)
>>>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
>>Hamlin.
>
>or 'Hamelin'...
or Hameln...
--
Stig M. Valstad - sval...@sn.no - http://www.sn.no/~svalstad
The Official Michelena Riosa Testosterone Brigade
Passer of the Moral Circle.
Paul Wilkins
Murky B wrote in article <339ce8e0...@news.ftech.net>...
>As I indicated, dodgy question. I'd like to know what answer was
>expected.
You are wanting answers for these questions now?
By the gods man, can't you see that all of the questions were specifically
designed to stir up nothing more than fear and controversy/conversation?
--
"What the hell, anyway." - Terry Pratchett
Paul Wilkins
AH Willis
In an article which on afp <Paal.Ry...@nki.no> wrote
[other attributions lost
>>>4. Which is the hottest part of a rainbow?
>>What sort of crappy question is that? They could be after the read end
>>(probably higher intensity due to the blue end being scattered by the
>>atmosphere more). They could be after the blue end (analogy with Black
>>body radiation).
>>
>>I'll leave it here and give someone else a go.
>
>thus the highest energy?
Assuming the question did actually mean heat, wouldn't it be the infra-
red bit? Granted, it's a bit of the rainbow that you can't actually see,
but it's still there.
Uh-oh. I've just participated in an afp Physics thread - it'll be
proposals next!
--
AH Willis [AHWillis (at) asphalt (dot) demon (dot) co (dot) uk]
please don't reply to the junkbin address,
as your mail will be binned without being read.
Wolfgang Schelongowski
>In article <xbuPUlAU...@toreador.demon.co.uk>,
>Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> wrote:
>>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
>Hamelin.
Hameln. Look it up on a map, it's about 50km east of Bielefeld, just
east of the river Weser.
>>8. Where did the orange originate?
>Spain? (naranja)
China? (cf. the Dutch sinaasappel (or so)).
--
Wolfgang Schelongowski Check _ALL_ headers before sending email.
By sending unsolicited bulk email to any of my accounts you give me
permission to nuke any of your computers. Ports 135/139 are known.
Wolfgang Schelongowski
In <33a1df40...@library.lspace.org>
al...@lspace.org (The Bellinghman) writes:
>skar...@LOCALHOST.ruhr.de (Wolfgang Schelongowski) wrote:
>>worc...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Ben Hutchings) writes:
>>
>>>Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
>>
>>>Hamelin.
>>
>>Hameln. Look it up on a map, it's about 50km east of Bielefeld, just
>>east of the river Weser.
>Do these quizzes want the English name or the German one?
Does that mean that the English have a different name for a town even
if they can pronounce it easily? If so one should tell the inhabitants
of a town 50 km east of Sheffield that their town is now called
Lincol_i_n.
--
Wolfgang Schelongowski Check _ALL_ headers before sending email.
... aber auf der Backbone-Fete werden aus Tradition neugierige
Maedels nachts dem Gott des Routings geopfert ...
-- CMK explains advanced TCP/IP network administration
Gideon Hallett
On 15 Jun 1997 19:11:10 +0200, skar...@LOCALHOST.ruhr.de
(Wolfgang Schelongowski) was a jolly decent type and shared with
us:
>In <33a1df40...@library.lspace.org>
> al...@lspace.org (The Bellinghman) writes:
>
>>skar...@LOCALHOST.ruhr.de (Wolfgang Schelongowski) wrote:
>
>>>worc...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Ben Hutchings) writes:
>>>
>>>>Darrell Ottery <dar...@lspace.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>2. Which town did the Pied Piper rid of rats?
>>>
>>>>Hamelin.
>>>
>>>Hameln. Look it up on a map, it's about 50km east of Bielefeld, just
>>>east of the river Weser.
>
>>Do these quizzes want the English name or the German one?
>
>Does that mean that the English have a different name for a town even
>if they can pronounce it easily? If so one should tell the inhabitants
>of a town 50 km east of Sheffield that their town is now called
>Lincol_i_n.
Wolfgang, I refer you to old debates about how to pronounce
places like "Bath". Simple word, one syllable. No problem?
You wish. The English can't even decide on a single way to say
English towns, let alone foreign ones. A two-syllable place like
Hameln doesn't have a chance. As for the way to pronounce
Hamelin, by looking at the English letters, you could pronounce
it Ham-el-in, Ham-lin or even Haym-lin. You get the idea...
Gideon.
(Oh, and certain sections of the populace would throw up their
hands in horror if the Germans tried to tell them how to
pronounce a German place name. Sad but true.)
--
(((( | Gideon_...@3Com.com.========================|
o__))))) | - Bringing permed '70s-retro hedgehogs to the =|
__ \'((((( | common people since he got bored one afternoon.=|
Jacqui
The Bellinghman wrote:
> I think it's actually a compliment if a foreign nation decides that a
> place is important enough to receive a new name in their language.
So why in a fit of PC did we all go from calling it Peking (Anglicised
version, easy to pronounce and spell) to Beijing (and other such
examples)? And what are we supposed to do about Brugge/Bruges etc?
Jac
--
Sig to arrive shortly, in a plain brown envelope.
Martin Soederstroem
> >The Bellinghman wrote:
> >> I think it's actually a compliment if a foreign nation decides that a
> >> place is important enough to receive a new name in their language.
So why is Germany the country with the most foreign names? (Deutchland,
Tyskland, Allemagne, Germany and some more that I can't remember.) Not
that Germany doesn't deserve complements. The Germans I have met have
been the nicest, most softspoken people. Not a shouting or limping one
among the lot.
--
Martin
Remove NO.SPAM from address in order to reply.
ppint.
- hi; in afparticle, <ybng1FAr...@mclapham.demon.co.uk>,
mar...@mclapham.demon.co.uk "Martyn Clapham" commented:
> In article <33c5689d....@library.lspace.org>,
> The Bellinghman <al...@lspace.org> writes
>> Jacqui <Jac...@dwcon.lspace.org> wrote:
>>
>>>So why in a fit of PC did we all go from calling it Peking (Anglicised
>>>version, easy to pronounce and spell) to Beijing (and other such
>>>examples)? And what are we supposed to do about Brugge/Bruges etc?
>>
>>You said it. PC
>>Perhaps 'Peking' sounds rude in ... whatever language they speak there.
>>Mandarin? Cantonese? Or, since 'Peking' was supposed to be a
>>transliteration of the original, it was merely decided that 'Beijing'
>>was closer to being a correct transliteration.
[>>(the bellinghman)]
>
>IIRC it wasn't PC, as you say above the new spelling is supposed to
>sound nearer to the Chinese version of the name.
>[ snip ]
>(Mart)
>
- well, it was no more pc than calling any city by the name its
inhabitants give it, or getting both the pronunciation and the
spelling of someone's name, or nickname, right - or as close as
one can. (- some languages don't distinguish between sounds that
others do, and if the ear can't hear the difference...)
- it's a matter of courtesy, to attempt to treat others as well
as you can - and also of morality; and whether you aim to do unto
others as you would be done by, or as _they_ would be done by (or
somewhere roughly inbetween), or *not*, this can't help but reflect
in the politics of any but the most devout hypocrite: and basing
politics upon morality is the foundation of political correctness.
- so yes, inter alia, it was pc; and i, for one, applaud the change.
- love, ppint.
[to reply, please remove both initial & terminanl "v" from the reply-to: line]
pp.s. - iirc, the distinction was between different pronunciations
of a name meaning "northern capital" - "peiping", or "peking"
(or "pekin", whence came "pekinese" for the bad-tempered lap dog),
which dates from when the imperial residence might move thence to
the southern capital (? nanking ?), and "beijing", whose meaning
i don't now recall for sure (? "white city", perhaps ? - can any-
afper help out further ?). [must look this up in the carrier bag -
but that compartment's in milnthorpe...]
--
"decadence, n: the finest flowering of civilisation"
- ppint., 8/72
O Dai Wai
"ppint.":
> pp.s. - iirc, the distinction was between different pronunciations
> of a name meaning "northern capital" - "peiping", or "peking"
> (or "pekin", whence came "pekinese" for the bad-tempered lap dog),
> which dates from when the imperial residence might move thence to
> the southern capital (? nanking ?), and "beijing", whose meaning
> i don't now recall for sure (? "white city", perhaps ? - can any-
> afper help out further ?). [must look this up in the carrier bag -
> but that compartment's in milnthorpe...]
The characters look something very vaguely like:
-||/ -+- peking comes from the cantonese pak king meaning
-|| [=] north capital. (the characters look a little like
|L /|\ the two on the left.)
The putonghua or mandarin pronounciation of the same characters is bei
jing.
the british came to hk/canton first so all the names which would have
used would have been in cantonese. the 'official' language of china[1]
is what's spoken in beijing and that is putonghua (common man's
tongue).
hth, hand
dave / o dai wai
[1] lit. chung-gwok or middle kingdom/country
--
O Dai Wai - pMRTB: OMitFE
odaiwai@... instead of dob@...
dob@... goes in the spam bin.
O Dai Wai
Jacqui:
>So why in a fit of PC did we all go from calling it Peking (Anglicised
>version, easy to pronounce and spell) to Beijing (and other such
>examples)?
more to do with currying favour with deng xiao-ping and his
successors. mayhap 'twas part of the deal struck with maggie in 1983?
> And what are we supposed to do about Brugge/Bruges etc?
tac nukes.
Jacqui
Martyn Clapham wrote:
after ppint. Martyn Clapham The Bellinghman and Jacqui
J> >>>>So why in a fit of PC did we all go from calling it Peking
(Anglicised
> >>>>version, easy to pronounce and spell) to Beijing (and other such
AB> >>>You said it. PC
> >>>Mandarin? Cantonese? Or, since 'Peking' was supposed to be a
> >>>transliteration of the original, it was merely decided that 'Beijing'
> >>>was closer to being a correct transliteration.
MC> >>IIRC it wasn't PC, as you say above the new spelling is supposed
to
> >>sound nearer to the Chinese version of the name.
pp> > - well, it was no more pc than calling any city by the name
its
> > inhabitants give it, or getting both the pronunciation and the
> > spelling of someone's name, or nickname, right - or as close as
> > one can. (- some languages don't distinguish between sounds that
> > others do, and if the ear can't hear the difference...)
> >
> [ snip ppints definition of _true_ political correctness ]
> > - so yes, inter alia, it was pc; and i, for one, applaud the change.
MC> There seems to have been a mis-understanding on my part here. I
assumed
> that PC was being used in this post in a derogatory fashion.
>
> It isn't clear from my post but I agree with ppint that it is polite to
> use the local name/pronunciation.
Well. Alan's original point, which got snipped somewhere, was that he
thought it was a compliment when we (and others) thought a place
important enough to merit a new name in our language (paraphrased but
essentially that). I then made the point about the UK reverting to
"Beijing" and so on, as it would then, by an extension of that logic,
seem less polite... I do like to play Devil's Advocate. I have no axe
to grind with PC (although I object to tortuous language such as
Chairperson and Fireperson. If he's male he's a Fireman.).
Anyway, I have never noticed newsreaders saying Paree (phonetic sp),
Muenchen, Napoli, Roma, Koeln, or other such names... and I've only
heard one say Taoiseach properly! I have more venom for newsreaders
than for PC...
Jac
--
Sig file to arrive shortly, in a plain brown envelope.
Jacqui
O Dai Wai wrote:
>
> Jacqui:
> >So why in a fit of PC did we all go from calling it Peking (Anglicised
> >version, easy to pronounce and spell) to Beijing (and other such
>
> more to do with currying favour with deng xiao-ping and his
> successors. mayhap 'twas part of the deal struck with maggie in 1983?
Aha. methinks you right, mad maggie is behind a lot of things
(including William Hague. Worrying. Is she on some sort of Super HRT
or something?)
> > And what are we supposed to do about Brugge/Bruges etc?
>
> tac nukes.
I do have a few left, but it's hard to avoid hitting bits of Europe that
I like, targetting just Belgium [1] might be awkward.
Jac
[1] Gratuitous use of word in a posting, I admit. Mainly to avoid
OLFdom.
--
Sig file to arrive shortly, in a plain brown envelope (no windows).
O Dai Wai
Jacqui:
>Aha. methinks you right, mad maggie is behind a lot of things
>(including William Hague. Worrying. Is she on some sort of Super HRT
>or something?)
my first thought was: wtf is william hague. after a quick web search
of various newspapers, my second thought was wtf did he come from?
>I do have a few left, but it's hard to avoid hitting bits of Europe that
>I like, targetting just Belgium [1] might be awkward.
so getting the galactic overlord to squash it between two free planets
is a little over the top?
oops.
--
O Dai Wai
"It's hard to get your nipples to transcend with
just bread and cheese." - (c) jldomini June '97
Joann L Dominik
O Dai Wai (d...@diaspoir.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Jacqui:
: >Aha. methinks you right, mad maggie is behind a lot of things
: >(including William Hague. Worrying. Is she on some sort of Super HRT
: >or something?)
:
: my first thought was: wtf is william hague. after a quick web search
: of various newspapers, my second thought was wtf did he come from?
and it's really really true. Karen, I'm converted.
William Hague *is* Mark Lowes. It's...scary. :) I'm going to think
of the guy as a hamster from now on. Possibly a snorkeling hamster,
though.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Very Intelligent Pig http://www.cloudnet.com/~jldomini
"For example, i myself am currently wearing a feather boa, a
policeman's helmet and spandex ankle warmers. Honest." --B
"This is computer science-- we don't have women." --MPK
Richard Kettlewell
jldo...@cloudnet.com (Joann L Dominik) writes:
>William Hague *is* Mark Lowes. It's...scary. :) I'm going to think
>of the guy as a hamster from now on. Possibly a snorkeling hamster,
>though.
You think so? I tend think of him more as the Mekon...
(I mean Hague, not Mark Lowes. I just can't bring myself to see Mark
attempting to take over the universe and subject it to a reign of
terror, etc etc.)
--
Richard Kettlewell http://www.elmail.co.uk/~richard/
ppint.
- hai; in afparticle, <33a9c444...@library.lspace.org>,
"O Dai Wai" <d...@diaspoir.demon.co.uk[0]> ex-plai-ned:
> "ppint." [that's me !]:
>> pp.s. - iirc, the distinction was between different pronunciations
>> of a name meaning "northern capital" - "peiping", or "peking"
>> (or "pekin", whence came "pekinese" for the bad-tempered lap dog),
>> which dates from when the imperial residence might move thence to
>> the southern capital (? nanking ?), and "beijing", whose meaning
>> i don't now recall for sure (? "white city", perhaps ? - can any-
>> afper help out further ?). [must look this up in the carrier bag -
>> but that compartment's in milnthorpe...]
>
>The characters look something very vaguely like:
>
>-||/ -+- peking comes from the cantonese pak king meaning
>-|| [=] north capital. (the characters look a little like
> |L /|\ the two on the left.)
>
>The putonghua or mandarin pronounciation of the same characters is bei
>jing.
>
>the british came to hk/canton first so all the names which would have
>is what's spoken in beijing and that is putonghua (common man's
>tongue).
>
>
- <fx: small, seated bow>: thank-you, dob/o dai wai; i stand,
or rather, sit, corrected.
- paraphrased from a couple of carrier bag side-pockets:
the other (? former ?) name of pekin/peking/beijing is, app-
arantly, shun-t'ien-fu; and that of nanking, ying-t'ien-fu.
the ming capital was established at nanking by chu y∥n-chang,
who'd successfully rebelled against the mongol (y∥n) dynasty
and gained supremacy over southern china, in 1368 [1]. the
ming did not securely control the rest of china until 1388,
when the mongols were finally [2] defeated. the ming concent-
rated on rebuilding the agricultural base of china which, es-
pecially in the north, the mongols had destroyed (they'd done
the same throughout mesapotamia, persia, afghanistan, baluchis-
tan and around the citystates & oases of the silk road; which
vast area never fully recovered [though the remains of the irr-
igation systems they destroyed are still extant and little bits
remain in use in some localities]), building a monumental canal
system linking the yangtze (and hang-chou, to the south of it)
all the way north to peking - which system survives, and remains
commercially, economically and socially important to this day.
the capital was moved to peking in 1421.
the ming dynasty lasted until 1644, though from c.1636 rebell-
ions wrested control of most of china, save for the south, the
west & the south-west, allowing the manchu eventually to conquer
all of china and establish the ch'ing dynasty, which reigned
china until 1911.
- love, ppint.
[to reply, please remove both initial & terminal "v" from the reply-to: line]
[0] - dob is "odaiwai@" not "dob@" ("dob@" goes in his spam bin).
[1] - i do not know whether there is any connection between the
mongol dynasty's name, and that of chu y∥n-chang; sorry.
[2] - well, for the next two centuries...
pp.s. - but i'm still certain i read, or was told, that "bei"
means "white"... - "certain" doesn't mean i'm right, of course...
--
emmet, endeavouring to pour oil on manic six-year old waters:
"be a still pond."
sasha, after a quiet minute for thought:
"quack!"
- in duxford, 3 or 4/11/96
David Lodge
O Dai Wai (d...@diaspoir.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Jacqui:
: >Aha. methinks you right, mad maggie is behind a lot of things
: >(including William Hague. Worrying. Is she on some sort of Super HRT
: >or something?)
: my first thought was: wtf is william hague. after a quick web search
: of various newspapers, my second thought was wtf did he come from?
William Hague, aka Slimey Git, aka Pseudo Yorkshire accent (which he
has lost recently - wonder why) is the MP for Richmond, North Yorkshire,
A place where he is universally vilified and hated (yet he still gets
voted in; why?)
(Richmond is the constituency my parents live in!)
dave
Suzi
David Lodge wrote:
>
Snippety, snip
>
> William Hague, aka Slimey Git, aka Pseudo Yorkshire accent (which he
> has lost recently - wonder why) is the MP for Richmond, North Yorkshire,
> A place where he is universally vilified and hated (yet he still gets
> voted in; why?)
>
Obviously it's not that universal then, is it? More people must vote for
him than for the others.
--
Suzi
"You could turn it into Suzi, and it sounded as though you danced on
tables for a living. You could put in a Z and a couple of Ns and an E,
but it still looked like a name with extensions built on."
Soul Music - T. Pratchett | AFPurity 66% (and falling...) | AFPetite
+++ Spam-trap: to reply please remove x's from address +++
Jason Lancaster
Suzi wrote:
>
> David Lodge wrote:
> >
> Snippety, snip
> >
> > William Hague, aka Slimey Git, aka Pseudo Yorkshire accent (which he
> > has lost recently - wonder why) is the MP for Richmond, North Yorkshire,
> > A place where he is universally vilified and hated (yet he still gets
> > voted in; why?)
> >
>
> Obviously it's not that universal then, is it? More people must vote for
> him than for the others.
Aaah. The voice of reason. Perhaps the previous writer meant all right
thinking and decent people vilify and hate him...just a thought.
Jason Lancaster
--
Beware...The Wildebeest Cometh.
Michael The Roach Janszen
On 4 Jun 1997 09:51:38 GMT, worc...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Ben Hutchings) shook
the Earth by stating:
>>14. What is the most north-easterly state in the US? [6]
>
>Vermont, I think. I'd like to know how one could rigorously define
>'most north-easterly' though.
Well, for once, this can be defined, as the most northerly state (measured
in degrees) is simultaneously the most easterly state (in degrees) ---
_and_ the most westerly state, too.
Alaska.
penI'yIn 'ej pechep
Michael "The Roach" Janszen
The Official Michelena Riosa Testosterone Brigade
Peerless Leader of the Post-Apocapalyptic Forces
Spammer trap - when replying by e-mail, drop the last letter
of the address...
Bryan
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:03:51 GMT, al...@lspace.org (The Bellinghman)
wrote:
>Richard Kettlewell <ric...@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>jldo...@cloudnet.com (Joann L Dominik) writes:
>>
>>>William Hague *is* Mark Lowes. It's...scary. :) I'm going to think
>>>of the guy as a hamster from now on. Possibly a snorkeling hamster,
>>>though.
>>
>>You think so? I tend think of him more as the Mekon...
That fits...
>>(I mean Hague, not Mark Lowes. I just can't bring myself to see Mark
>>attempting to take over the universe and subject it to a reign of
>>terror, etc etc.)
He has enough trouble with conventions.
>Come on, you know the truth. Hague is Thatcher's *real* son, not that
>drittsek Mark Thatcher. The Tory party has been recaptured by the
>Thatcherite right.
Drittsek - n. Norweigian for "shitbag". Once applied by the Norwegian
Foreign Secretery (or equivalent thereof) to John Selwyn Gummer.
Never a truer word spoken.
>I rather hope that Blair stops hereditary peers sitting in the House of
>Lords. It would be fun watching Mad Mags deciding whether to trade in
>her hereditary peerage for a life one, or give up her seat in the Lords
>for the sake of boy wonder.
I'd have to say that i don't believe watching Mrs Thatch be indecisive
would be worth disposing of a body of party-independent individuals in
the Lords, most of whom are already far too wealthy to be practically
corruptible and replacing it with another bunch of Lifepeers/Toadying
Sycophants.
The Lords were the only thing preventing Michael Howard (*spit*) from
turning the UK into a police state, i think that service alone should
guarantee their survival.
On the subject of Mr Hague, he is a loathable little worm whose only
memorable actions so far in Parliament were
a) Applying "old boy" pressure on the Select Committee investigating
corruption among MPs in an effort to prevent findings being released
before the General Election and
b) Denying ever having written the incriminating memo and lying to the
House to that effect before resigning from the Whip's office when the
material evidence was brought forward.
I regard his election as the worst possible choice the Tories could
have made. My preferred candidate would actually have been either
Redwood or Lillee, both of whom i believe have convictions similar to
my own about the European Union. Howard never held an opinion not
calculated to win support from someone in his life but even he has
never been proven to have lied to House of Commons - the root of the
Profumo scandal, if i might remind you all, Miss Keeler was merely
added incentive for the tabloids - and is therefore preferable to
Hague.
I think Clarke is misguided but an excellent financial analyst and at
least he seems to believe in something. The Conservative party have
just been given a chance to replace their "any ideals you like,
tuppence a bag" leadership (Ring any bells, Mr Blair?) with some
honesty and some belief in what their doing and they've thrown it
away. To those Labour supporters so fanatical that they wish to
prolong this current government by a bunch of Tory wets with red roses
Hague's win is a godsend.
Still, i think most people will regret this choice - it's better to
have an honest fool in charge than a slippery liar.
--
Bryan
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/richard.bryant/
How do i do what?
O Dai Wai
"ppint.":
> pp.s. - but i'm still certain i read, or was told, that "bei"
> means "white"... - "certain" doesn't mean i'm right, of course...
from my english/putonghua dictionary:
bei (level tone): cup; to carry on one's back; shoulder
an upright stone tablet
bei (falling and rising tone): north (also part of the phrase meaning
to be defeated in one battle after another)
bei (falling tone): times (-fold); to be contrary to; people of
kindred interest; generation; the back of the body; to hide something
from view; recite from memory; act contrary to; shellfish; be equipped
with; prepare; take precautions against; exhausted, fatigued; quilt;
bei (neutral tone): indicating that the idea is simple and easy to
understand; indicating agreement with reluctance.
Of course, that's just Mandarin, the easy language. Cantonese, now
*that's* difficult.
Jason Lancaster
Bryan wrote:
> On the subject of Mr Hague, he is a loathable little worm whose only
> memorable actions so far in Parliament were
>
> a) Applying "old boy" pressure on the Select Committee investigating
> corruption among MPs in an effort to prevent findings being released
> before the General Election and
>
> b) Denying ever having written the incriminating memo and lying to the
> House to that effect before resigning from the Whip's office when the
> material evidence was brought forward.
These things alone make him the ideal candidate to lead the Tory party -
a lower, more reprehensible band of liars and gits I have never seen.
> I regard his election as the worst possible choice the Tories could
> have made. My preferred candidate would actually have been either
> Redwood or Lillee, both of whom i believe have convictions similar to
> my own about the European Union. Howard never held an opinion not
> calculated to win support from someone in his life but even he has
> never been proven to have lied to House of Commons - the root of the
> Profumo scandal, if i might remind you all, Miss Keeler was merely
> added incentive for the tabloids - and is therefore preferable to
> Hague.
>
> I think Clarke is misguided but an excellent financial analyst and at
> least he seems to believe in something. The Conservative party have
> just been given a chance to replace their "any ideals you like,
> tuppence a bag" leadership (Ring any bells, Mr Blair?) with some
> honesty and some belief in what their doing and they've thrown it
> away.
<snip>
Clarke was the only chance the Tories had of getting into power before I
reach old age...I'm rather glad he failed (I found myself in the curious
position of vaguely liking a Tory for a while).
> To those Labour supporters so fanatical that they wish to
> prolong this current government by a bunch of Tory wets with red roses
> Hague's win is a godsend.
<snip>
That is absolutely right, although I'm not sure I like being called
fanatical...I can afford to be generous, I suppose, it's Labour who are
in power after all.
> Still, i think most people will regret this choice - it's better to
> have an honest fool in charge than a slippery liar.
Hmm. Honest fool...that would refer to John Major, would it? I suppose
it's conceivable that he was an honest fool (he was certainly a fool)
but as for the rest of his crooked, corrupt, double dealing gang of
thieves...I'm not so sure.
I'm sorry. I seem to be getting just a little serious here.
I think I'd better apply lots of :) at this point.
Jason Lancaster.
--
Beware...The Wildebeest Cometh.
Jason Lancaster
John Fouhy wrote:
>
> > These things alone make him the ideal candidate to lead the Tory party -
> > a lower, more reprehensible band of liars and gits I have never seen.
>
> Eeek! Politics!
> (gun-control thread, anyone?)
<snip>
(Judge says...)
How do you plead?
(Defendant replies with head bowed in shame...)
Guilty, M'lud. I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I deserve
whatever punishment is seen fit.
Jason "The Accused" Lancaster.
--
Beware...The Wildebeest Cometh.
Darren Stephens
Off topic somewhat but I just had to reply to this
the junkyard dog wrote:
> The Junkyard Dog notes that on Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:59:37 +0100, Jason
> Lancaster <j.d.la...@staffs.ac.uk> writ the following:
>
> >Bryan wrote:
> >> On the subject of Mr Hague,
> >
> followed by many words of his wisdom.
>
> A major pre-requisite for being a politician is that you must be a
> consumate liar. This talent is also shared by members of the legal
> profession.
Many of whom just happen to pe politicians, what a coinicidence...
>
>
> There are some here who are old enough to remember the dark days of
> the last Labour government. They borrowed so much money to spend on
> 'essential' services, the debt worried the international community so
> much they put the IMF in charge. I believe we are still paying it off,
>
> though these things tend to be shovelled under the carpet.
> The dockers seemed to be on permanant strike, exports suffered, so did
>
> imports. This resulted in sky high prices in the shops. Rocketing
> inflation.
And of course it had nothing to do with the energy crisis that had
recently gone before. It had an even greater impact on us than most
other countries becuase of problems successive governments had had with
incomes policy and employment relatiions. The conservatives also had
inflation trouble about 2-3 years after their election victory in 1979,
getting up to about 17%. This was the fallout of the industrial
troubles of early 1979.
There's also the fact that after the IMF were called in the Labour
government actually began to take a more supply side line to economic
policy, concentrating bringing money supply under control. Thatcherism
before Thatcher
> Hopefully those days are gone forever.
> There isn't much wrong with the UK at the moment. Strong currency, a
> bit too strong really, falling unemployment,
This depends upon how you define unemployment and were you stand though,
doesn't it? There are many in the UK who have had to live on the sharp
end of Conservatism and have not had any of the benefits of our supposed
prosperity.
> The envy of our near European friends,
Apart from the levels of poverty, crime and other social problems which
arrived on our doorstep as a result of the orthodoxy that the free
market would solve all of our problems, yes I suppose we may be. But
then we would be, we're BRITSH.
> No wonder we are attracting so many overeseascompanies to invest here.
And this has nothing to do with sweeteners and tax breaks for companies
and some of the lowest rates of pay in Europe. When are people going to
learn that trying to compete with the Far East and other solely on the
grounds of labour cost is a dreadful mistake. Even after some of the
horrendous mistakes of the 80s an d the 90s so far we still have the
chance to compete in high-skill value added industries. We should be
emphasising quality not cost. We will find our markets this way.
> Shame the Tories were so bad at PR.
and government
> Let's hope this lot don't repeat the mistakes of messrs Wilson, Healy
> Callaghan etc.
or Thatcher and Major
> >I'm sorry. I seem to be getting just a little serious here.
>
Me too, rant over
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren....@onyx.net
http://www.onyx.net/
ONYX Internet, Zetland Buildings, Exchange Sq, Middlesbrough, UK, TS1
1DE
+44 (0)1642 216 200, +44 (0)1642 216 201 Fax, +44 (0)1642 216 2??
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Richard Kettlewell
pre...@enterprise.net (the junkyard dog) writes:
>Threats of petrol rationing and long queues at garages for what there
>was available.
There was the small matter of a worldwide oil crisis during the
seventies, you know.
>Shame the Tories were so bad at PR.
...and paying their own hotel bills. I hear Aitken has fled the
country.
Jason Lancaster
the junkyard dog wrote:
>
> The Junkyard Dog notes that on Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:59:37 +0100, Jason
> Lancaster <j.d.la...@staffs.ac.uk> writ the following:
>
> >Bryan wrote:
> >> On the subject of Mr Hague,
> >
> followed by many words of his wisdom.
>
> A major pre-requisite for being a politician is that you must be a
> consumate liar. This talent is also shared by members of the legal
> profession.
>
Tell me, have you ever visited Tory central office? I'm sure they'd
love to have you there (they do need all the help they can get right
now.
I am not really old enough to remember the finer points of Labour
government in the 70's because, and this is an important point, it's
twenty years ago. That's quite a while in anyone's book. I'm quite
sure that some pretty major mistakes were made at that time, that's what
everyone tells me, but it's hardly fair to cite that as a reason why
Labour shouldn't be in power now (which you may not have been doing).
And you seem to have let the rather major mistakes (no pun intended) of
the last government (a curious word to describe them, I'll grant you)
escape memory. I'm not going to go into too much detail here, I have
other threads to follow, but just taking into account the social
breakdown experienced in this country because of the complete
eradication of workers rights (perhaps a happy medium between the 70's
and 90's would have been nice), the lack of job security both in terms
of unemployment problems and also use of temporary and short term
contracts, the movement of money from the poor to the rich, continued
rise in crime, and all the other stuff I can't be b*ggered to mention
(just like the hedgehog).
The reason we attract so much overseas investment is that we pay sweat
shop wages and give companies who come here great whopping grants.
As Darren Stephens says, shame the Tories were no good at government.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Jase (thinking happy thoughts).
--
Beware...The Wildebeest Cometh.
Leighton Pritchard
Darren Stephens wrote:
>
> Off topic somewhat but I just had to reply to this
>
> the junkyard dog wrote:
[snipped lots of politics]
> > >I'm sorry. I seem to be getting just a little serious here.
> Me too, rant over
<cynicism>
With all this talk anyone would think that something in the government
had actually changed.
</cynicism>
--
Leighton
To reply by mail, please change the quack.duck in the Reply-To line to
ac.uk
I apologise for the inconvenience. [1]
[1] Sorry.
{Thanks to Lethargic Man for the quacking idea, Gromit}
Richard Kettlewell
Jason Lancaster <j.d.la...@staffs.ac.uk> writes:
>:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Why are people so touchy about politics? What is it about it that
needs a few dozen smileys to be added to the end of any article about
it? One of the more worthwhile properties of the modern world is that
there are large regions where people don't kill each other over this
subject, I don't see what's so scary about it.
If you won't discuss politics, you'll get the politicians you deserve.
Terry Pratchett
In article <33B280...@strath.quack.duck>, Leighton Pritchard
<bap9...@strath.quack.duck> writes
>Darren Stephens wrote:
>>
>> Off topic somewhat but I just had to reply to this
>>
>> the junkyard dog wrote:
>
>[snipped lots of politics]
>
>> > >I'm sorry. I seem to be getting just a little serious here.
>> Me too, rant over
>
><cynicism>
>With all this talk anyone would think that something in the government
>had actually changed.
></cynicism>
Leave the cynicism switched on, I should. In a few years this
government will be as unpopular as any other government; you can already
see the seeds. The sex-and-money Tory sleaze will probably be replaced
by the old-fashioned croneyism-and-money sleaze, the Old Labour
speciality.
I really hated the Tories. But I too can remember the late 60s/70s --
strikes more or less continuously, rubbish piling up in the streets, the
government of Harold 'Lying Bastard' Wilson, the 50gbp holiday limit
(which meant that on holiday there were special cheap hotels and cheap
menus and special areas in the resturants for the Brits -- we became a
sort of Western 'Eastern European' country) and mortgage rates at over
15%... That's not ancient history, and well within the experience of
many senior politicos.
It'd be nice to think the politicians can learn...
--
Terry Pratchett
Darren Stephens
>
>
> Leave the cynicism switched on, I should. In a few years this
> government will be as unpopular as any other government; you can
> already
> see the seeds. The sex-and-money Tory sleaze will probably be
> replaced
> by the old-fashioned croneyism-and-money sleaze, the Old Labour
> speciality.
>
I will because I'm a natural cynic but hope springs eternal, and what
is life without hope?.
> I really hated the Tories. But I too can remember the late 60s/70s --
>
> strikes more or less continuously, rubbish piling up in the streets,
> the
> government of Harold 'Lying Bastard' Wilson,
'Lying Batard' maybe but he was always very nice to his mum and had a
fantastic collection of beermats.I can remember (just, I was 8 at the
time) the worries my family had about buying my grandad in
early 1979, and that was a deeply "interesting time" to coin a phrase I
seem to have read somewhere
before :-)
> It'd be nice to think the politicians can learn...
- it would also be nice to think that aliens would land on the
Whitehouse lawn and disribute wisdom and lollipops to the world, but
humans being what we are (ie: not all that far up the evolutionary
ladder than the plankton who, at least as far as I'm concerned, seem to
have the RIGHT idea - no elections, cash machines, Channel5 etc) we
probably won't.
Sigh...
Alex Kamilewicz
the junkyard dog <pre...@enterprise.net> wrote:
> A major pre-requisite for being a politician is that you must be a
> consumate liar. This talent is also shared by members of the legal
> profession.
>
> There are some here who are old enough to remember the dark days of
> the last Labour government. They borrowed so much money to spend on
> 'essential' services, the debt worried the international community so
> much they put the IMF in charge. I believe we are still paying it off,
> though these things tend to be shovelled under the carpet.
The Labour government did not run a debt of critical proportions. That
the Tories did. That is what we are still paying off.
> The dockers seemed to be on permanant strike,
The Tories presided over the first strike of University staff in this
country for 800 years, we have had nurse, ambulance staff, and firemen
strikes over the past year, and the Liverpool dockers strike is in its
second year.
> exports suffered, so did
> imports. This resulted in sky high prices in the shops.
What, as opposed to now? At least that Labour government funded the
welfare state to make such problems easier to live through. A similar
economic crash in the early nineties caused more protracted suffering.
> Rocketing
> inflation. If you could afford to go abroad on holiday or business,
> 50 pounds sterling was the maximum you could take. Jail if you tried
> to take more. At one point it was actually illegal to give or receive
> a salary increase.
Briefly.
> Threats of petrol rationing and long queues at garages for what there
> was available.
Can we say OPEC oil embargo?
> I could go on but I won't. And this is only 20 or so
> years ago. The previous Tory administration under dear old Ted had
> similar problems with the unions. And the Labour bunch before them was
> even worse.
By implication the past 18 years have been better?
> Hopefully those days are gone forever.
> There isn't much wrong with the UK at the moment. Strong currency, a
> bit too strong really, falling unemployment, low inflation, the lowest
> energy, communication and transport costs in Europe. The envy of our
> near European friends, who have rising unemployment, high taxes and
> social contributions. No wonder we are attracting so many overeseas
> companies to invest here.
All of the above is true except that there aren't as many companies
moving here as you might think. And those that are are Eastern
companies who find in Britain they can pay the natives less than in
their own countries. Where labour is cheap, as in most third world
countries, the economy can be strongly growing. This one is just
keeping pace, with massive brain drain and social welfare problems. Or
have you tried to use the NHS recently?
Wake up.
--
Alex Kamilewicz
(40% of thesis complete...stalled)
Russ
In message <wwven9qft...@sfere.greenend.org.uk>
Richard Kettlewell <ric...@greenend.org.uk> writes:
> >Threats of petrol rationing and long queues at garages for what there
> >was available.
> There was the small matter of a worldwide oil crisis during the
> seventies, you know.
I know yes, I remember it well, glad to see you attended your history lessons.
--
Russ
Alex Kamilewicz
The Bellinghman <al...@lspace.org> wrote:
> (What did happen to the Downey report, anyway?)
It can't be published until the Committee on something-or-other (can't
remember, sorry, I think it is the standard and priviledges cmmtte),
which apparently won't happy for a couple of months. Things don't look
good for Hamilton & Co. apparently.
> I'll declare here that in '79 I voted Tory. Firstly because, as Terry
> noted, the Labour government seemed unable to get us out of the total
> economic mess there was then,
Labour in '79 had difficulty piecing together a workable economic
situation due to a whole decade of economic problems (OPEC, currency
fluctuations, the natural loss of a manufacturing base). The Tories, on
the other hand, were able to create an even more abysmal economic
situation during the '80s, the most prosperous decade this century.
The Tories' PR in '79 was good, they convinced everyone that everything
was wrong, and then pocketed the results of the global economic growth
in the '80s.
Richard Kettlewell
Russ <r.g...@spam.inna.bun> writes:
> Richard Kettlewell <ric...@greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>> Threats of petrol rationing and long queues at garages for what there
>>> was available.
>>
>> There was the small matter of a worldwide oil crisis during the
>> seventies, you know.
>
> I know yes, I remember it well, glad to see you attended your history
> lessons.
Why did you post that? Just feeling randomly patronising? Or was
there some point to it?
(FWIW, I didn't know this because of history lessons. You've clearly
assumed some false thing(s) about me.)
Jason Lancaster
Leighton Pritchard wrote:
> [snipped lots of politics]
>
> > > >I'm sorry. I seem to be getting just a little serious here.
> > Me too, rant over
>
> <cynicism>
> With all this talk anyone would think that something in the government
> had actually changed.
> </cynicism>
<In The Manner Of A Ricki Lake Audience Member>
We don't even want to go there!!!
</In The Manner Of A Ricki Lake Audience Member>
Jase.
--
Beware...The Wildebeest Cometh.
Frugal the Curious
>side of the political fence." Sorry, but I do think the bloke was
>onto something there. Does anyone ever vote *for* anything anymore,
>or are we all just picking the lesser of many evils, or voting
>against someone else?
We can't even vote for 'None fo the above' to express disapproval for the
lot of them, we have to fail to vote, thus becoming one of the 'Apathetic
louts who let ... get elected'.
Personally I was hoping News Bunny or someone similar would stand where
I live, it would have at least given me an acceptable candidate to vote
for.
>I have to let the issue of plankton pass for now. That's someone
>else's rant. I could do quite a nice rant on woodticks, mosquitoes,
>or air conditioner repairmen, if you like.
My current pet peeves are the ants who have decided to build a condo
on top of my flowers and the price of ladders.
--
Frugal the Curious - Rated -1 on the Claire-Louise scale of something.
fru...@fysh.org
Gideon Hallett
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:10:39 +0100, Roger Barnett
<Ro...@natron.demon.co.uk> was a jolly decent type and shared
with us:
>
>Sadly we seem to be moving toward the US model of politics, with that
>special British twist - identified by at least one person who posts
>here - of keeping all the bad bits & throwing out the good bits.
>
<SB>
Easy starter for breakfast...
"British guide to the American political system"
America has two parties. First, there is the Republican Party, a
rightwing political party not unlike Britain's Conservative
Party. Secondly, there is the Democratic Party, which is a
rightwing political party not unlike the Conservative party...
</SB>
*sigh*
Gideon.
--
(((( | Gideon_...@3Com.com.========================|
o__))))) | - Bringing permed '70s-retro hedgehogs to the =|
__ \'((((( | common people since he got bored one afternoon.=|
Tony Finch
Roger Barnett <Ro...@natron.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Sadly we seem to be moving toward the US model of politics, with that
>special British twist - identified by at least one person who posts
>here - of keeping all the bad bits & throwing out the good bits.
>
[bad bits]
>Without:
>- separation of power (as between president and congress)
You too can have pointless bickering between different parts of the
elected government.
[good bits]
FTony.
--
o
o o o
o o o o
Tony Finch
jldo...@cloudnet.com (Joann L Dominik) wrote:
>
>I keep thinking "there is no monopoly of common sense on either
>side of the political fence." Sorry, but I do think the bloke was
>onto something there. Does anyone ever vote *for* anything anymore,
>or are we all just picking the lesser of many evils, or voting
>against someone else?
Well, I voted _for_ the LibDems. The common reasoning that `I won't
vote for them because not enough other people do for them to have any
chance of winning' displays such an intellectual poverty and lack of
understanding of the purpose and workings of democracy that I despair.
Alex Kamilewicz
Tony Finch <fa...@lspace.org> wrote:
> constituency for someone's vote is fairly expensive. Imagine how much
> easier it would be with computers, and what the implications would be
> for confidentiality.
And then Bill Gates would buy the system, and we all know what would
happen then....
p.be...@reading.ac.uk
In article <33B3D82A...@onyx.net>,
Darren....@onyx.net wrote:
>
> > I really hated the Tories. But I too can remember the late 60s/70s --
> >
> > strikes more or less continuously, rubbish piling up in the streets,
> > the
> > government of Harold 'Lying Bastard' Wilson,
>
> 'Lying Batard' maybe but he was always very nice to his mum and had a
> fantastic collection of beermats.I can remember (just, I was 8 at the
> time) the worries my family had about buying my grandad in
> early 1979, and that was a deeply "interesting time" to coin a phrase I
> seem to have read somewhere
> before :-)
>
BUYING your grandad? The best bit about election night were all the
lovely ways the BBC represented the Tories losing, ie blue blocks being
blown up,John Major buried in a landslide etc.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Roger Barnett
In article: <5pbp3v$1...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> Tony Finch <fa...@lspace.org> writes:
>
> Roger Barnett <Ro...@natron.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Without:
> >- separation of power (as between president and congress)
>
> You too can have pointless bickering between different parts of the
> elected government.
Yes I know, but we seem to be left with no outlet for debate at all;
instead we have a prime minister (any party) with presidential *and*
congressional powers - no wonder the old checks and balances
have become cheques and favours.
--
Roger Barnett
Tony Finch
Colm Buckley <co...@lspace.org> wrote:
>
>In Ireland, and in many other countries, the PR (STV) system means that
>*every* vote counts - in my own constituency, for example, a Green Party
>candidate (yaay) defeated a Progressive Democrats candidate (spit) on
>the basis of seventh- and eighth-preference votes. Marvellous system,
>but how I wish they would computerise it... the count in Dublin
>South-East went on for eight days - I wrote a quick C++ program which
>did the whole thing (on 30,000 random votes) in under a minute...
Yes, but as soon as computers get involved they make a whole raft of
other things easier that may have implications for civil liberties.
For example, votes in Britain are confidential but traceable: all the
voting slips are numbered and they are kept for a year after the
election. However, searching through the sacks of paper from a
constituency for someone's vote is fairly expensive. Imagine how much
easier it would be with computers, and what the implications would be
for confidentiality.
Serious Thought is required in this sort of situation.
Colm Buckley
> == richard...@ukonline.co.uk (Bryan)
> Based on the results of the 1992 General Election, for the last five
> years Britain under PR would have been ruled by a constantly shifting
> coalition government composed of (in order of seats and political
> alliegences at the time)
Hmm - this got me thinking. Under PR, it seems likely that, after the
1992 election, the combined MPs of Labour and the Liberal Democrats
would have been sufficient for an overall majority. Others may
disagree, of course, but I'd bet that that particular combination would
have managed to elect a highly successful and workable government. (The
PM dying halfway through his term would have caused problems, though...)
Colm
--
Colm Buckley B.A. B.F. | EMail : co...@tuatha.org or co...@lspace.org
Computer Science | WWW : http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/cbuckley/
Trinity College | Phone : +353 87 469146 (087-469146 within Ireland)
Dublin 2, Ireland | Microsoft - Where do you want to crash today?
John S. Ewing
In article: <UBJFdYAZ...@proj.demon.co.uk> Scott Chapman
[snip]
> Another similarity I noticed is that
[snip]
> Tony and spouse are lawyers who moved into politics.
> I always find the best test of acceptability in politicians
> is 'Would you buy a second hand car from this person?'
I wouldn't even buy a used Tory party policy from Tony Blair :-)
(And before anyone says anything - no, I can't stand the
Tories either)
--
John S. Ewing | internet: jo...@gelsalba.demon.co.uk
Glaschu / Glasgow |
Alba / Scotland |
T J Wilkinson
On 3 Jul 1997 11:01:54 GMT, Colm Buckley <co...@lspace.org> wrote:
>> == richard...@ukonline.co.uk (Bryan)
<snip>
>If the Irish experience is anything to go by, coalition governments
>(which we've had continuously since 1982, and intermittently before
>then) are more moderate and reasonable than single-party governments, as
>the ideology of an individual party does not dominate the government to
>the exclusion of pragmatism. A coalition government, almost by
>definition, must take actions which are acceptable to diverse groups of
>people; this causes a tendancy towards moderation and careful thought.
>As an example, the last Irish Government (a three-party coalition)
>presided over the most successful period this country has ever known,
>with growth rates averaging over seven percent, massive increases in
>employment, and consistent good weather.
I suspect that the success of a particular government[1] depends more
on the quality of the people in it, their courage and resolution,
regardless of their actual political views or whether a government is
single party or a coalition. Your current leader of your country may
agree with you on every single philosophical detail but that won't do
the country much good if they're a dithering idiot who couldn't make a
decision to save their own life, let alone anyone else's. [2]
Secondly, although a government generally has the best opportunities
to ruin a country (attacking a neighbour or some of its own citizens
are very effective ways of doing this but there are other, less
violent options available, I'm sure everyone has their own list of
"idiotic things x government has done which will destroy civilisation
as we know it" ), I suspect that the success of a country depends
quite a bit on the people themselves.
Tracy
[1] I'm using government in the NZ sense of the currently ruling lot
who have enough votes - if they can keep all their party members under
control - to push through any law they want.
[2] Okay, maybe a bit unlikely for someone who's achieved such a high
role, but you get the idea.
--
tajw...@ihug.co.nz http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tajwileb/
"Only time will heal your broken heart, just as only time will
heal his broken arms and legs." --Miss Piggy
Brian Howlett
In article <199707032...@zetnet.co.uk>
Russell Goff <r.g...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5pg0r2$3...@web3.tcd.ie>
> Colm Buckley <co...@lspace.org> writes:
>
>> As an example, the last Irish Government (a three-party coalition)
>> presided over the most successful period this country has ever
>> known, with growth rates averaging over seven percent, massive
>> increases in employment, and consistent good weather.
>
> And huge cash injections from the European Union.
And your difficulty with this would be...?
--
Brian Howlett
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"A man with a briefcase can steal more money than any man with a gun"
(Don Henley)
Daniel Ratcliffe
In message <33c0fb3c...@news.wantree.com.au> you wrote:
> That all depends. Have you *seen* the Australian Prime Minister
I guess this is leaning towards off topic, but has anyone seen the pilot
to the show Space:Above and Beyond? The UN Secratary General in 2063 was a
man called Spencer Chartwell. He was Austrailian. A friend of mine nearly
killed himself, and was chearing when he was killed in a later episode. What
is the problem with Austrailia and the UN? :)
~Daniel Ratcliffe
--
"Captain, it appears we have lost our sex appeal" - Tuvok, ST:V
"Oh, FAQ off" - Peter Miller
~Daniel Ratcliffe, S:AaB Freek - http://www.airtime.co.uk/users/morpork -
"Sure! Grab a paddle and join in!"------"Abandon all hope my ass!"
... Govt investigations contribute more to amusement than knowledge.