21 should be the legal age for porn girls
Ridley99
old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have on
thier lives.
Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body so to
speak.
a Holacaust of young women is happening right now in the San Fernando
valley, the unquelchable appetite of aging baby boomers with disposable cash
and the desire to recapture a bit of youth by watching young girls being
visciously fucked has produced an avalanche of videos starring waifs .
suitcase pimps are steering thier naive girlfriends into the hands of
perverts like Robert Black and Alex Hiddell, hoping to use the girl to get a
foot in the bizness themselves, talent scouts are making thier rounds sweet
talking 18 years old into porn.
many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they came.
Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
the average life span of these 18 year cup cakes is 6 months to a year, in
that years time they can be assured of being introduced to drugs, passed around
like Marilyn Monroe at the Kennedy compound, being gangbanged, ass fucked, ass
to mouthed and just about being treated like garbage.
luckily for the girls Bestiality and fistfucking are a European speciality
or they would all be sharing time with Fido before returning to Grand Rapids or
Iowa, or where ever, one thing is for sure, though the porn fan will miss
Anastasia and Guage, the men behind and in front of the camera won't even
remember thier names.
there is always onother young dumb idiot coming off the bus. a sucker is
truly born every minute.
21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely illegal.
and thats only morally right.
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Mike Paul
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely illegal.
> and thats only morally right.
No, it's not "morally right".
There *is* no "morally right" when it comes to pornography. Ask your
minister.
What it comes down to is the age when someone should be allowed to do
something. Drink alcohol? Well, lots of people decided that fewer people
would die in alcohol-related accidents if the drinkers had to be older, so
21 became the age. 25 (or 30) would be better, but some ancient rule says
21 is the best they could get.
Most other things, 18 is old enough...
Mike Paul
Stop whining and learn to live with it...
Gabriel.Nine
news:rame.993354005p27689@bash...
> the more i think of it the madder i get ,
It's unfortunate you didn't think a bit earlier then, isn't it?
>really how can they let 18 years
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision
about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will
have on
> thier lives.
"They" let...who do you mean by "they", the government? Are you proposing a
different age of consent for porn performers? And how about 18 year old
guys, or have you not really thought this through?
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body
so to
> speak.
Not really, not for everyone anyway.
> truly born every minute.
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely
illegal.
> and thats only morally right.
When a woman wanted to open a sex shop locally, among the many protestors
was a man who presented himself to the media as a former "porn addict" who
was now a born again Christian pastor and staunch advocate of the
restriction of porn...the morality never entered into it when you were
getting off.
Funny how much you sympathise with these girls now you are feeing a bit
guilty about it. I wish you had put some more consideration into it before.
Didn't you always used to post about the most extreme stuff - what was the
wildest thing you had seen? Now you feel bad, you want to impose
restrictions on everyone else. Too bad. It's not going to happen. The only
way the industry will censor itself is on grounds of self interest, not
morality.
I also wish you would stop equating the apparent "extremity" of sex acts
with the level of exploitation and abuse involved. Fisting is not an abusive
act in itself. Think of BDSM - people willingly give and receive much more
extreme pain than the stuff you have been talking about. To an untutored
mind, this might seem like abuse too - do you want to censor and restrict
this, because it is not just happening in porn, but in the world at large,
as part of the lives of many more people. You have obviously been unaware of
the exisitence of such acts outside of porn - I think you need to broaden
your awareness of the full spectrum of human sexuality. Many, many people in
loving relationships, never mind pornography, are currently engaged in the
kind of sexual pursuits you were relishing not so long ago and are now vexed
about. What actually bothers you is the context and the conduct of the
people you talk about - the simple answer is that if you stop buying it,
they'll stop making it and move along to the next trend. These people are
not originators, they follow the gold rush.
What I think should happen is that 21 should be the legal age for porn fans
to stop naive individuals like yourself getting hold of it, having their
as-yet unformed awareness of sexuality distorted and then sharing their
guilt trip with the rest of us. You say an 18 year old shouldn't be in it,
why should they be able to watch it either?
It is attitudes like this that perpetuate paternalistic intervention in free
societies - you can handle it but these poor waifs have to be saved from
themselves, even if they are adults, because you know better. Censorship and
restriction are favoured over better education and information to allow
people to make informed decisions. In a free society, why should the state
prevent adults making decisions for themselves, even if these decisions lead
then into harm?
I don't doubt that some 18 year olds may well not be mature enough to fully
appreciate the potential repercussions of what they might be getting into,
but then that applies, as I said already, to any sexual situation outside of
porn too, from a girl getting gang-banged at a frat house party to an intern
sucking the President's cock...
cutter
they have the right to control their own life (for better or worse). It
still shocks me that an 18 year old can perform every right of a citizen
(Marry, Vote, Join the military, etc) but can't drink. Either make the
legal age for everything 21 or make everything legal for a 21 year old also
be legal for a 18 year old. Maybe it is the Civil Libertarian in me
talking, but in a free society there has to be the right to screw up your
own life if you so desire.
What I think might be better is if the studios volunteer to stop hiring 18
year olds, but I doubt that will happen.
"Ridley99" <ridl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:rame.993354005p27689@bash...
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18
years
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision
about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will
have on
> thier lives.
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body
so to
> speak.
Lenscap1
21....it's the individual's own mental maturity....I don't know if you are
crying sour grapes with these posts ( you NOT being the one fucking these
girls), or if you are genuine in your concern...if you are, stop watching
and renting and buying porno flicks...lobby your Congressman...start some
special interest group ( like MADD), move to San Fernando Valley and devote
your life to 'saving' these neophyetes...a bigger issue to me, and to
paraphrase you, how can they let 18 year boys go to war to get blow to
bits....you can't save the world, Ridley...just try to make your little part
of it the best it can be for you....stop watching these flicks and, to use
your own words, "get a new hobby".....
Ridley99 <ridl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:rame.993354005p27689@bash...
decoster
years
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision
about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will
have on
> thier lives.
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body
so to
> speak.
Regretably that is just an opinion of yours. Trying to transpose this to
reality is another matter. Are we, as a society, going to be trying to make
decisions on maturity on a case by case basis? That sounds positivly
socialist to me.
> a Holacaust of young women is happening right now in the San Fernando
> valley, the unquelchable appetite of aging baby boomers with disposable
cash
> and the desire to recapture a bit of youth by watching young girls being
> visciously fucked has produced an avalanche of videos starring waifs .
Harsh words, and bit over played. I consider the proliferation of old women
videos a much more problematic crisis.
> suitcase pimps are steering thier naive girlfriends into the hands of
> perverts like Robert Black and Alex Hiddell, hoping to use the girl to get
a
> foot in the bizness themselves, talent scouts are making thier rounds
sweet
> talking 18 years old into porn.
> many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they
came.
> Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
> the average life span of these 18 year cup cakes is 6 months to a year,
in
> that years time they can be assured of being introduced to drugs, passed
around
> like Marilyn Monroe at the Kennedy compound, being gangbanged, ass fucked,
ass
> to mouthed and just about being treated like garbage.
Okay this is the part that motivated me to respond. What happened to
Guage--if the stories on here are to be believed--was horrible but that's
life. A lot of people have lost alot of money on small buisness. Yet we
don't ban people from opening their own Taco Mat now do we? Some girls get
used and abused, and some are smart and use the system to benefit
themselves. That, my friend, is capitalism, which--in case you didn't
notice--is the method of operation in America. The law is the law, at the
age of 18 a girl can or cannot--it's her choice--star in pornagraphic
videos. To deviate from this because of the failures of a few is letting the
minority dictate to the majority.
isgreen
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really
how can they let 18 years
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a
rational decision about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate
the effect this will have on
> thier lives.
If one is old enough to decide on a president, one is
old enough to decide to be in movies or not.
If one can't be in a movie til 21, then no can rent
til 21 either?
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Julian the Apostate
This will probably think this to be a very predictable response, but
what business is it of anyone to dictate what a legal adult may not do
for a living? Granted, the decision to go into the porn business is a
radical one, but why do you really think it is a good decision at any
age?
You refer to the porn industry as a "Holocaust". This rather cheapens
the term. Undoubtably, the industry is a very sad, but it is not in
any sense a Holocaust. And most porn consumers are not aging baby
boomers, but guys in their teens and twenties.
You speak of "suitcase pimps" who "steer naive girls." Come on ! The
number of girls who actively seek to make porno is large enough to
make all the movies you might want to consume.
Concerning Anastasia Blue et al: so if they retreat a few months after
entering the industry, that just means that they did not like it. They
don't like it, they leave. Problem solved !! What's the issue? You say
that they will get involved with drugs in the industry. Do you really
think they never used drugs before?
You make an analogy: being a porno movie star is like being a regular
movie star [Marilyn Monroe] in the sense that they are used sexually.
Do you also suggest that women not get into conventional showl biz?
Yes porno stars are gangbanged, assfucked etc. But that is their job
!! That is what they're paid to do.
Your original thesis was that the legal age at which one should be
allowed to perform in pornographic movies should be raised to 21. But
the body of your argument seems to be against the porn industry in
general.
Gemini 06
> the more i think of it the madder i get ,
> really how can they let 18 years old girls
> star in porn. what 18 year old can make
> a rational decision about being in a porn
> movie,or can serioulsy calculate the
> effect this will have on thier lives.
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the
> mind has caught up with the body so to
> speak.
On "Entertainment Tonight", Ginger Lynn said that no one should go into
the porno biz before age 25, because that's the age when most people
start thinking about their future.
--
Goddess Victoria Jacobs
MarkusRippel
i don´t know what´s the problem.
Is a girl or woman with 30 years not to save with this things? I don´t
understand why you gonna drive a car with 16 and not to be able to have sex
with 18. I´m from Germany, Hey, here is it normal that you start to work with
15 or 16. Hey, to work as a bricklayer with this age is legal, but you not old
enough for voting.
Is it not exploitation if you have to work and they let you do to strange
things to?
The point is if you don´t like the movies you don´t have to watch it.
The second Problem ist. Why does a woman do these things? Is it only the money?
I don´t know it. Our contry is uglier as yours.
Hey, here you can rent in the videostore movies like shit eating and drink
pissing. These things really strange and I don´t like these, too.
Hey, look a Vivid. The say there were normal, but if you wanna be star for
Vivid you have to make new tits or other things. This is exploitation for me
too. Here sexscenes are boring and the backgroundstory don´t interesting
anyone.
I think it is better to choose the movies you like to see. Ignoriere the
Extrememovies and they can´t get enough money. It seeming to me, that´s in the
world enough bastards who like the illstuff from the companys.
But i think it is better they do those strange things in the movies with a girl
who likes that stuff as the gonna out in the streets and rapes or slappes a
girl next door.
Hey, we are old enough and we can decide whats we wanna see.
Greetings,
Markus from Germany
Ramsey
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely
illegal.
> and thats only morally right.
I'm glad you don't make the rules Ridley because that
would not be a good thing!
Like Commodus I'm not a moral man so 18 is
fine with me.
21 is way too old to enter the business because
the girls are not that fresh anymore like they are
when they're 18.
R.
OldCritter
>old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
>being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have
>on
>thier lives.
Do you feel that the government should raise the draft age to 21 as well?
Seems to me, if you can send a girl off to get her brains blown apart in a war,
she should have the choice to get laid, on camera, if she so chooses.
If you want to raise the age limit on anything, raise the driving age to 21.
Now, that will save some young lives.
Old Critter
Stan Stewart
>On "Entertainment Tonight", Ginger Lynn said that no one should go into
>the porno biz before age 25, because that's the age when most people
>start thinking about their future.
I'm afraid if you wait til 25 to think about your future, life has
passed you by.
Stan Stewart
Outrider
.ridl...@aol.com (Ridley99) wrote:
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18 years
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have on
> thier lives.
>
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body so to
> speak.
Nonsense. There's nothing magical about the age of 21. Some people
mature at 16; others never mature.
I think it's patently unfair to take AWAY the decision from someone who
is old enough to live on their own, old enough to make financial
decisions that could affect their future, old enough to work just about
anywhere else (if qualified) and old enough to die for their country.
--
Outrider
.Gemi...@webtv.net (Gemini 06) wrote:
> On "Entertainment Tonight", Ginger Lynn said that no one should go into
> the porno biz before age 25, because that's the age when most people
> start thinking about their future.
Then Ginger Lynn is an idiot for thinking we're all cut from the same
mold.
By that logic, you shouldn't be able to leave home until the age of 25.
I'm sure that would make a lot of parents happy. ;^)
--
"This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed
autopsy on a fish."
Humevesne
> What it comes down to is the
> age when someone should be
> allowed to do something. Drink
> alcohol? Well, lots of people
> decided that fewer people
> would die in alcohol-related
> accidents if the drinkers had to
> be older, so 21 became the age.
And many of these same people lobbied to raise the speed limit to 65 mph,
knowing full well that more people would die in car accidents as a result...
Go figure.
Humevesne
"Let us leave pretty women to men
with no imagination."
-- Marcel Proust
Mike Paul
> Like Commodus I'm not a moral man so 18 is fine with me.
http://myron.sjsu.edu/romeweb/EMPCONT/e083.htm aside, I don't see where
morality has much to do with beginning a (possibly short-lived) career in
adult videos at 18 instead of 21...
> 21 is way too old to enter the business because the girls are not that
> fresh anymore like they are when they're 18.
"Fresh"? Seems to *me*, anybody new to the business is 'fresh' until
they've run out of options and start doing stuff not normally available in
the US...
> R.
Mike Paul
When you hear about videos involving human waste, the freshness is gone...
saint N
"decoster" <deco...@mlode.com> wrote in message
news:rame.993379208p31783@bash...
lcs Mixmaster Remailer
> There is really not that much difference, mentally, between 18
>and 21....it's the individual's own mental maturity....I don't
>know if you are crying sour grapes with these posts .....
After lackadaisical nasal excavation I add:
"When I was a boy of eighteen, my father was so ignorant I
could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to
be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had
learned in three years." -- Mark Twain
The Nameless Horror
>If one can't be in a movie til 21, then no can rent
>til 21 either?
There actually *are* a few states where you have to be 21 to view
adult materials.
Michael W Crichton
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18
years
>old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
>being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have
on
>thier lives.
Bullshit. If an 18 year old can vote, join the army, and buy cigarrettes,
then they can damn well screw on camera. Or would you propose that the
minimum age for those other three activities be raised also?
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body so
to
>speak.
For most of human history, 12-13 year olds were considered adults. This
notion of a 21 year long childhood is historically very new, and would be
incomprehensible for anyone prior to the past few centuries. (And no, I'm
not suggesting 6th graders should be allowed in porno, this was merely to
provide some perspective.)
> a Holacaust of young women is happening right now in the San Fernando
>valley,
Holocaust? Oh-kaaaaayyyy, no hyperbole here. :-P
>the unquelchable appetite of aging baby boomers with disposable cash
>and the desire to recapture a bit of youth by watching young girls being
>visciously fucked has produced an avalanche of videos starring waifs .
They didn't know what they were getting into beforehand? They couldn't have
done the 5 minutes of research it would have taken to find out "Hey, some of
these guys aren't really very wholesome, are they?". And I should have
sympathy?
> suitcase pimps are steering thier naive girlfriends into the hands of
>perverts like Robert Black and Alex Hiddell, hoping to use the girl to get
a
>foot in the bizness themselves, talent scouts are making thier rounds sweet
>talking 18 years old into porn.
> many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they came.
>Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
> the average life span of these 18 year cup cakes is 6 months to a year,
in
>that years time they can be assured of being introduced to drugs,
And? Are they being forced to shoot up? No? Then it was their own damn
choice, now wasn't it?
> passed around
>like Marilyn Monroe at the Kennedy compound, being gangbanged, ass fucked,
ass
>to mouthed and just about being treated like garbage.
All on a paid, consensual* basis. If they want money that badly, well, heck,
that's the free market in action. You don't like it, move to china.
(* of course, if anyone really _is_ coercing any of these girls, then the
bastard in question should be raped to death with rusty power tools.)
> luckily for the girls Bestiality and fistfucking are a European
speciality
>or they would all be sharing time with Fido before returning to Grand
Rapids or
>Iowa, or where ever,
And? As long as they're doing it of their own free will, why should I care?
>one thing is for sure, though the porn fan will miss
>Anastasia and Guage, the men behind and in front of the camera won't even
>remember thier names.
Well, that's true enough, and somewhat sad. But, the same could be said of
any other performers, from strippers to mainstream actors. Why should porno
be any different?
> there is always onother young dumb idiot coming off the bus. a sucker is
>truly born every minute.
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely
illegal.
>and thats only morally right.
Funny thing about morality, is that it has no objective existence to point
to. You can't prove something is moral, and neither can anyone else. Leaving
the field free for anyone who wants to assert that, say, all porno is
immoral...
cutter
machine gun nest than a 21 year old or even a 25 year old. So that will
never happen :-}
"OldCritter" <oldcr...@aol.complus> wrote in message
> Do you feel that the government should raise the draft age to 21 as well?
> Seems to me, if you can send a girl off to get her brains blown apart in a
war,
> she should have the choice to get laid, on camera, if she so chooses.
>.......
Voyager
wrote:
>In article <rame.993354005p27689@bash>, ridl...@aol.com says...
>
>> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely illegal.
>> and thats only morally right.
>
>No, it's not "morally right".
>
>There *is* no "morally right" when it comes to pornography. Ask your
>minister.
>
>What it comes down to is the age when someone should be allowed to do
>something. Drink alcohol? Well, lots of people decided that fewer people
>would die in alcohol-related accidents if the drinkers had to be older, so
>21 became the age. 25 (or 30) would be better, but some ancient rule says
>21 is the best they could get.
>
>Most other things, 18 is old enough...
Unless you want to get BJ's or shag marilyn monroe in the oval office,
then you gotta be 35 and it helps in you are an amerikan.
Count Orrlock
>notion of a 21 year long childhood is historically very new
That's because their life expectancy was only 35! :O)
Plus, they didn't go to school until they were 23+ to "prepare" for adulthood.
When they were 13, they were already working their arses off.
An 13-year-old of 100 years ago was probably a lot more mature than an
18-year-old today! :O)
NoseMan
Therefor, it is legal for 18-year-olds to fuck.
Why should it be illegal for them to fuck in front of a camera?
dirty-dan
16yo was (if they were able to complete school) left and took up
occupations circa 1910.
2 more grades were added soon after and this made school end for a
person then 18yo, the logic somewhere followed they were then in most
cases to be treated as an adult when 18. (This being in the U.S.) We
still in criminal cases deem a person of 16 years old able to choose
right from wrong and when they violate the law treat them as an adult.
If they can be put on trial and held accountable for their actions in the
U.S. as an adult, seems they can choose to have, or not to have sex
at 18. They are deemed able to understand and be held accountable
for their actions and decisions.
This sex industry and sex is evil is subjective... not all teens choose to
use drugs, be hookers, or join the adult industry.... but the law says at
18... they have the legal and moral right to choose... it deems they did
since they were 16 as stated in criminal cases, so at 18 they can sign
contracts, enter into agreements, and choose to have sex on camera.
Is this TOO YOUNG? Well the U.S. has a higher age here than places
throughout the world. Russia a girl can choose to be in a video at
13, Holland and the UK at 16... so by worldly standards the U.S. has a
much higher than average age of consent for adult productions. The
worldly average is infact 16. I think the U.S. holds this higher age of 18
to allow girls to finish school and give them every oppertunity to be
able to make informed and aware decisions. To be in the adult industry
is not automatically a bad decision. We tend to preach about the
disasters, but we do not also state that the majority do not come out
scared.
Anna and Tove are excellent examples we can quote from the HR side
of the equation (HR also as he was in porn since he was 18) all have
enjoyed rich rewarding lives. Tove became a doctor, Anna is a very
happy person, and is amused by her success now looking at it from
nearly being 30 now in retrospect. Tove and Rob used the money they
made to set up a life and get her through the first few years of
college in the late 70's. Rob is now a chemical engineer and holds
alot of process patents.
Your doom and gloom "sex is bad - meat grinder" mentality is your
subjective evaluation based on worst case situations.... and in some
cases whom is to say some of these girls were not already troubled,
in these worst case stories, coming from disfunctional families, abuse,
drug involved, and the like? There are many females who entered the
adult realm, took it seriously and made wise decisions (is this where
Brandy comments?) some are now advocates, and producers in the field.
Not all who enter are swallowed up when they are too young to know
better as what you are stating would suggest... frankly i think this more
reflects on some of your own issues and inhibitions that you are
projecting into this, then what you are actually stating.
*************************************************************************
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Myxomatosis
news:rame.993422408p5286@bash...
> so...what happend to Guage ????
She got consistently misspelled, which is enough to drive anyone
crazy.......
Mixie
isgreen
> There actually *are* a few states where you have to
be 21 to view
> adult materials.
Yes I know. But isn't it ironic that one must be at
least 21 to see a girl of 18 get fucked on film?
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arch stanton
<m...@anon.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
>Lenscap1 <fs...@worldnet.att.net> and others, volley back and forth about:
>
>> There is really not that much difference, mentally, between 18
>>and 21....it's the individual's own mental maturity....I don't
>>know if you are crying sour grapes with these posts .....
>
>After lackadaisical nasal excavation I add:
>
>"When I was a boy of eighteen, my father was so ignorant I
>could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to
>be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had
>learned in three years." -- Mark Twain
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bravo! From another post:
Mike Paul: What it comes down to is the age when someone should be
allowed to do something. Drink alcohol? Well, lots of people decided
that fewer people would die in alcohol-related accidents if the
drinkers had to be older, so 21 became the age. 25 (or 30) would be
better, but some ancient rule says 21 is the best they could get.
This issue was disussed on a recent news show I watched due to the
trouble of the Bush twins. Speaking of the twins they look a little
randy no? I'd bet even money some texas longhorn <err you know what
the horn is> did the both of them at the same time. Anyhoo, I digress.
The results of upping the drinking age has resulted in a notable
decrease in alcohol-related auto-accidents. <i'll take the sources
word for it> Now I dont believe for a minute that the 18-21 yr age
group dont imbibe. But with tougher drunk driving laws combined with
the 21 legal-drinking law a person even with a hint of alcohol on
his/her breath is all done if pulled over. So perhaps the thought of
not drinking while driving is firmly implanted in ones mind.
While being a leftie from Massachusetts I abhor
over-regulation and restriction. But in this case I think sometimes
daddy knows best.
arch stanton
Lenscap1
If I said it....it's true....
Gemini 06 <Gemi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:rame.993380412p31930@bash...
>
>
> On "Entertainment Tonight", Ginger Lynn said that no one should go into
> the porno biz before age 25, because that's the age when most people
> start thinking about their future.
>
> --
> Goddess Victoria Jacobs
>
Lenscap1
introduce you to some 40 year olds that act 15, and some 18 year olds that
act 40....now, go figure....???
lcs Mixmaster Remailer <m...@anon.lcs.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:rame.993424805p5540@bash...
Roger Pipe
I've interviewed two women in my career, Tina Tyler and Zoe, who say
the same thing. With all due respect to them, and to you, I disagree.
Unless we're ready to say that 21 is ADULT, then there is no way you
can justify this position. In the US, you are old enough to die for
your country and be considered legally an adult at 18. That has to be
the age you can decide how you want to use your body. (Or abuse it, in
the case of cigarettes) Frankly, I'm a little upset that people can
vote at 18, but have to wait until 21 to drink. Then again, you can
drive at 16 (In Cali anyway) and be charged as an adult in criminal
cases at the age of 14. We need to pick an age and stick with it. 18
is the best we've got. (I'm always open to interesting age of conset
debates, but for porn purposes, ADULT has mean adult.)
LATE
Http://www.rogreviews.com/Default.htm
http://www.dvdpornreviews.com
For Industry News
http://rogreviews.com/DailyNews/dailynews.htm
Flt100
limit of 30 MPH, and eliminate left turns nation wide.
Look at all the lives we could save.
Flt100
>could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to
>be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had
>learned in three years." -- Mark Twain
Never happened with me. Father remained an idiot until the day he died.
Voyager
> This issue was disussed on a recent news show I watched due to the
>trouble of the Bush twins. Speaking of the twins they look a little
>randy no? I'd bet even money some texas longhorn <err you know what
>the horn is> did the both of them at the same time. Anyhoo, I digress.
The blond is the one who will perpetually be in trouble. Reminds me of
Anastasia Blue. She is going to school in Austin at U. of Texas,
probably though, really community college material, like her
father.....
Now the brunette, going to Yale, she is the one who should sneak off
to porn valley and jump into some Barely Legal and University Co-ed
features during breaks at school. Maybe taking a secret service agent
along for a ride in the video (male or female, actually I sorta like
the female aspect of this.... but I digress).... This would really
peeve the parents! Also might make more 'publikans change parties to
the democrats, as the new englander 'publikan recently changed party
affiliations, due to the drinking of the bushies....
As for their bushies, Voyager's Shaver of the Stars, has complimentary
service for either or preferably both girls at the same time. Nyce
video idea, eh? Which big-house do you think I would show up in, if
I ever accomplished that feat? Or do you think they'd forego the
big-house and just incinerate me?
:-)
Lcpofamerica
21 should also be the legal minimum I.Q. for all porn producers and directors.
I guess we can't have everything.
lcp
Zonky
> Russia a girl can choose to be in a video at
> 13, Holland and the UK at 16... so by worldly standards the U.S. has a
> much higher than average age of consent for adult productions. The
> worldly average is infact 16
Strictly speaking, a person below the age of 18 in all these countries will
need the consent of their parents/guardians to appear, (certainly in
Netherlands or UK!) as below 18 they can't sign legally binding contracts on
their own....
Z.
--
Please remove my_pants when replying by email.
arch stanton
>On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:17:48, in rec.arts.movies.erotica you wrote:
>
>
>> This issue was disussed on a recent news show I watched due to the
>>trouble of the Bush twins. Speaking of the twins they look a little
>>randy no? I'd bet even money some texas longhorn <err you know what
>>the horn is> did the both of them at the same time. Anyhoo, I digress.
>
>The blond is the one who will perpetually be in trouble. Reminds me of
>Anastasia Blue. She is going to school in Austin at U. of Texas,
>probably though, really community college material, like her
>father.....
>
>Now the brunette, going to Yale, she is the one who should sneak off
>to porn valley and jump into some Barely Legal and University Co-ed
>features during breaks at school. Maybe taking a secret service agent
>along for a ride in the video (male or female, actually I sorta like
>the female aspect of this.... but I digress).... This would really
>peeve the parents! Also might make more 'publikans change parties to
>the democrats, as the new englander 'publikan recently changed party
>affiliations, due to the drinking of the bushies....
>
>As for their bushies, Voyager's Shaver of the Stars, has complimentary
>service for either or preferably both girls at the same time. Nyce
>video idea, eh?
Absolutely. What would you call it? ONE IN THE HAND IS WORTH
TWO IN THE BUSH? Hmmm. Fingers maybe? Or maybe a reference to one cock
in the hand going into 2 bushes that belong to the 2 Bush twins? Oye!
Which big-house do you think I would show up in, if
>I ever accomplished that feat? Or do you think they'd forego the
>big-house and just incinerate me?
> :-)
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Naw in most states they do nicey nice now. Just put you to
sleep. But for your last meal? Hmmm consider the possiblities.
arch
Voyager
wrote:
>>As for their bushies, Voyager's Shaver of the Stars, has complimentary
>>service for either or preferably both girls at the same time. Nyce
>>video idea, eh?
>
> Absolutely. What would you call it? ONE IN THE HAND IS WORTH
>TWO IN THE BUSH? Hmmm. Fingers maybe? Or maybe a reference to one cock
>in the hand going into 2 bushes that belong to the 2 Bush twins? Oye!
>
Lets worry about the name after we have the video edited (you know
take out the exciting stuff which Ed keeps in as when I drop the
microphone in the bowl or sink the girls are squatting over as they
are being sheared). Potential names....
Razor Twins
The Family Bush.... Lite!
Going Down Smooth....
Where is the guy who used to name the Rosebud vids when you need 'em!
>
>
> Which big-house do you think I would show up in, if
>>I ever accomplished that feat? Or do you think they'd forego the
>>big-house and just incinerate me?
>> :-)
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Naw in most states they do nicey nice now. Just put you to
>sleep. But for your last meal? Hmmm consider the possiblities.
>
My last meal request.... Maybe a Happy Meal shared with newbie Trisha
decked out in a lil skimpy micky d's uniform..... Supersized of
course.
Belgalen
news:rame.993519619p21256@bash...
> Unless we're ready to say that 21 is ADULT, then there is no way you
> can justify this position. In the US, you are old enough to die for
> your country and be considered legally an adult at 18. That has to be
> the age you can decide how you want to use your body. (Or abuse it, in
> the case of cigarettes) Frankly, I'm a little upset that people can
> vote at 18, but have to wait until 21 to drink. Then again, you can
> drive at 16 (In Cali anyway) and be charged as an adult in criminal
> cases at the age of 14. We need to pick an age and stick with it. 18
> is the best we've got. (I'm always open to interesting age of conset
> debates, but for porn purposes, ADULT has mean adult.)
If we do raise the age to 21, then there'd be a raise in forged id's for the
girls to get into porn. This can result in more films/videos/DVD's being
recalled and destroyed; statutory rape charges filed against ADULT guys;
porn industry might bankrupt; etc.
There is no way we want to face such things like that, so. let's keep ADULT
age at 18! How those guys and ladies want to do with their bodies is their
own choice. However, since porn industry is like a family (if they really
care!), they can help educate those young people the harsh truth behind
drugs, STD's, etc. It is really sad and heartbreaking when I learn that my
past favorites fell prey to drugs, alcohol, etc. with nowhere to turn to.
It looks like Sharon Mitchell and AIM will need all the help they can get
from us to obtain the necessary funding to help the unfortunately ones.
--
Belgalen
e-mail: belg...@home.com
dirty-dan
throughtout Europe, but as of this moment a female from
13 to 16 can pose softcore with parential consent, and after
16 hardcore in Holland on their own right to sign consent.
Most companies in Europe now no longer use models that
are not 18 as they wish to sell into the U.S.... but in Holland
and the U.K. this is not unlawful. It would not though be
surprising and most expect this to change to 18 very soon.
In article <rame.993547205p26231@bash>, zonky@my_pants.teletubbies.net wrote:
>dirt...@hornyrob.com (dirty-dan) wrote in news:rame.993460805p13093@bash:
>Strictly speaking, a person below the age of 18 in all these countries will
>need the consent of their parents/guardians to appear, (certainly in
>Netherlands or UK!) as below 18 they can't sign legally binding contracts on
>their own....
>
>Z.
>
> --
>Please remove my_pants when replying by email.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ** rec.arts.movies.erotica FAQ at http://www.rame.net/faq **
> ** internet adult film database at http://www.iafd.com **
>
*************************************************************************
HornyRob See our Webpage at: http://www.hornyrob.com
215-293-3138 - Products, Uncensored Usenet, Adult Webmaster Support
Exclusive Owner of all 4 Anna films in NTSC Format ~On Site~
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Simmons
>My last meal request.... Maybe a Happy Meal shared with newbie Trisha
>decked out in a lil skimpy micky d's uniform..... Supersized of
>course.
Supersized??!!?? Now you want Trish to get implants??!!!!?! Say it ain't so,
V.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The Days **
Voyager
>>From: Voyager Voya...@kc.rr.com
>
>>My last meal request.... Maybe a Happy Meal shared with newbie Trisha
>>decked out in a lil skimpy micky d's uniform..... Supersized of
>>course.
>
>Supersized??!!?? Now you want Trish to get implants??!!!!?! Say it ain't so,
You are a wild and crazy guy, Mr. SFB.... NO, she would be getting
me supersized. Heck, after they off'd me, I'd still have xxxtreme
"angel lust" (new term I learned from HBO's Six Feet Under) for
her!
MarMac
>
> Therefor, it is legal for 18-year-olds to fuck.
>
> Why should it be illegal for them to fuck in front of a camera?
Man!! I sure hope that you are not married if you think that fucking is what
marriage is all about! It is a BIG difference fucking different men in front
of a camera than making love to the man you love and are committed to for
life.
MarMac
lattara
>"Ridley99" <ridl...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:rame.993354005p27689@bash...
>> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18
>years
>> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision
>about
>> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will
>have on
>> thier lives.
>> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body
>so to
>> speak.
>
>Regretably that is just an opinion of yours. Trying to transpose this to
>reality is another matter. Are we, as a society, going to be trying to make
>decisions on maturity on a case by case basis? That sounds positivly
>socialist to me.
Indeed, Karl Marx devoted a chapter of Das Kapital to develop his
theories on the appropriate legal age for appearing in a porn movie
(writing with remarkable perspicuity as the moving picture had not yet
been invented).
Felix Miata
> Michael W Crichton wrote:
> >For most of human history, 12-13 year olds were considered adults. This
> >notion of a 21 year long childhood is historically very new
> That's because their life expectancy was only 35! :O)
> Plus, they didn't go to school until they were 23+ to "prepare" for
adulthood.
> When they were 13, they were already working their arses off.
> An 13-year-old of 100 years ago was probably a lot more mature than an
> 18-year-old today! :O)
College graduating class average ages of the 18th century were about the
same as that of today's high school graduating classes. Modern society
seems to be doing a good job of retarding (or halting) the process of
maturing.
--
Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight
to your soul. Proverbs 29:17 NIV
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.members.atlantic.net/xxlist.html
Felix Miata
Maybe you've hit on yet another opportunity to have the marketplace
decide what's "right". Start a porn production company. Call it
"Oldenuff". Limit the talent to those that appeal to your target
audience: those that require a bit more apparent maturity in order to
get off. Under 21 need not apply. If buyers beat your doors down, you
know you did something right. If not . . . .
NoseMan
wrote:
Since you quoted my post, I will respond.
I think you missed my point. "Legal" is the key word. It is legal
for 18-year-olds to fuck, whether they are married or not.
NoseMan
Mr. Pragmatic
> many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they came.
> Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
What happened to Anastasia Blue?
Eric Dew
MarMac <marti...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> In most states (probably all) it is legal for 18-year-olds to marry.
>>
>> Therefor, it is legal for 18-year-olds to fuck.
>>
>> Why should it be illegal for them to fuck in front of a camera?
>
>Man!! I sure hope that you are not married if you think that fucking is what
>marriage is all about! It is a BIG difference fucking different men in front
>of a camera than making love to the man you love and are committed to for
>life.
>
after two years while the former only gets you $500 a scene, if you're
lucky.
EDEW
Otis
The Holocaust when you discuss porn movies. Some of us over in Europe
find this a little tasteless. Andrea Dworkin used to come out with
that shit, and who takes her seriously anymore? Sorry, but three of my
grandparents died horribly in the Holocaust - none of my family, or
anyone else's as far as I know, died horribly in a porno movie.
Also - this whole debate seems a bit silly to us here in England. 16
year old girls here will do very softcore photo-shoots, then, if
they're interested 2 years later, maybe make the move into porno. When
they do, they encounter guys like Ben Dover, Phil Mycock,
PhilMacCavity etc. (yes, that terrible British "naughty" punning
comedy name lives on), all of whom have a fine reputation. Simply,
British porn has no "extreme" end: pissing, shitting and heavy fisting
still aren't legal in the UK, and besides, there's just not a market
for it. Even in the pirate-video stores in Soho, where any Rocco or
Anabolic video can be illicitly picked up for the equivalent of $15,
you won't find any Max Hardcore. Because even the saddest loneliest
Brit has no particular desire to watch a squat little failed jock piss
into the mouth of a beautiful young girl.
See, when we UK porn fans think of America, we think of tolerance,
common sense, porn being seen - quite rightly - as one more branch of
showbiz. But we also think of people like Max, and it makes us
wonder...the 2 countries in the world we have most in common with
culturally - the USA and Germany - can't get enough piss in their
vids. To us, the American fascination with extreme porn is not so much
about sex as it is about power. We may live in a repressed,
sex-negative society (worse - British media is now suffused with
sexual images, while your average British girl won't screw you even if
she wants to for fear of being labelled a slut), but if a girl says
"no, I don't want to fuck you", we take the approach of "well, I
should try harder next time" rather than "aaarrrrgghhhhhhh FUCK YOU
BITCH!!!"
Anyway, the point is that most of the top British producers/directors
make a real effort to treat the girls fairly and with respect. If what
you're doing is really just fucking in front of a camera, then as a 17
year old girl you're not in any danger (most Brit porn babes carry on
their working lives as hairdressers, clerks, shop girls etc.
throughout their porn career). Here, we get the impression that in
America - and this may be a distorted picture - there's a lot more
drug addiction, abuse, prostitution, violence etc. going on in the
porn world. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what we hear
about things like domestic violence and date-rape (no Brit would even
WANT to screw a girl who's semi-comatose!), it seems like America, and
it's porn world in particular, is an even more misogynistic place than
Britain. I know you can't generalise about a country that size,
but...as far as I'm concerned, a 21-year-old woman has to make her own
choices. An 18-year-old girl, thinking she's just gonna have to fuck
and suck on camera, suddenly meeting Max or ending up on the set of
"Rough Sex 2" (which happened: we in Britain were "treated" to a
disturbing documentary about the English girl in that, who arrived in
America thinking she was gonna make more fuck films, and ended up
traumatised by being coerced into that movie)...I dunno.
Xenophile
<Gabrie...@btinternet.com> wrote:
<snipis maximus>
>I don't doubt that some 18 year olds may well not be mature enough to fully
>appreciate the potential repercussions of what they might be getting into,
>but then that applies, as I said already, to any sexual situation outside of
>porn too, from a girl getting gang-banged at a frat house party to an intern
>sucking the President's cock...
And the intern was 22.......
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
arch stanton
>Ridley - please please please stop referring to Auchwitz, Nazis and
>The Holocaust when you discuss porn movies. Some of us over in Europe
>find this a little tasteless. Andrea Dworkin used to come out with
>that shit, and who takes her seriously anymore? Sorry, but three of my
>grandparents died horribly in the Holocaust - none of my family, or
>anyone else's as far as I know, died horribly in a porno movie.
>
>Also - this whole debate seems a bit silly to us here in England. 16
>year old girls here will do very softcore photo-shoots, then, if
>they're interested 2 years later, maybe make the move into porno. When
>they do, they encounter guys like Ben Dover, Phil Mycock,
><snip>
Otis:
>18-year-old girl, thinking she's just gonna have to fuck
>and suck on camera, suddenly meeting Max or ending up on the set of
>"Rough Sex 2" (which happened: we in Britain were "treated" to a
>disturbing documentary about the English girl in that, who arrived in
>America thinking she was gonna make more fuck films, and ended up
>traumatised by being coerced into that movie)...I dunno.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the first I've heard of this. Last time I checked this is
still a free country. Appearing in an adult movie is still a choice.
So when you state "coerced" what do you mean by that. Gently prodded
in a certain direction? Or taken at gunpoint to perform against her
wishes. While I feel a % of the players in the porn industry is scum
there are still laws out there protecting these naive women against
said scum. Is there a link to a website for this story?
arch
Gabriel.Nine
news:rame.994167605p11707@bash...
If you do a search on the forum at www.bgafd.co.uk
with Leeane McQueen, Hardcore, C4 or Max Hardcore or some variation thereof
as the criterion, you should see something of the many, many posts on this,
indeed I am sure some folks posted about this on RAME too.
Otis is overstating the case slightly... she was being touted around LA
producers by Dick Nasty who was also trying to get into her pants during
this documentary. When she flaked out on a scene with Max (who she seemed to
know little about), Max was seen persuading her to continue and then really
turning the heat up...all verbal. The part where she agreed to go on was
crucially not shown in what was a rather sensationalised and manipulative
piece of filmmaking. The film maker took a very active role in directing a
documentary to say the least.
The girl was undoubtedly confused, mixed up etc and didn't deserve the
shitty time she had. But the film failed to mention she had actually done a
scene with Dick Nasty, who the movie portrayed (fairly) as the bad guy.
Can I also say that I disagree largely with everything that Otis said ('cept
the Holocaust bit - Ridley was out of order)...This is one British porn fan
who Otis is certainly NOT speaking for in his opinions. He is factually
incorrect on several points too.
lattara
[snip]
>
>Also - this whole debate seems a bit silly to us here in England. 16
>year old girls here will do very softcore photo-shoots, then, if
>they're interested 2 years later, maybe make the move into porno. When
>they do, they encounter guys like Ben Dover, Phil Mycock,
>PhilMacCavity etc. (yes, that terrible British "naughty" punning
>comedy name lives on), all of whom have a fine reputation. Simply,
>British porn has no "extreme" end: pissing, shitting and heavy fisting
>still aren't legal in the UK, and besides, there's just not a market
>for it.
I have bought numerous pissing & fisting vids in Soho black market
shops - they all seemed to be doing a good trade in this stuff.
>Even in the pirate-video stores in Soho, where any Rocco or
>Anabolic video can be illicitly picked up for the equivalent of $15,
>you won't find any Max Hardcore. Because even the saddest loneliest
>Brit has no particular desire to watch a squat little failed jock piss
>into the mouth of a beautiful young girl.
I have bought Max Hardcore vids in the same shops and seen more for
sale (even in Maxim's in Frith Street which is at the respectable end
of the pirate shops). They were IIRC the US versions so there wasn't
any pissing in any case.
>
>See, when we UK porn fans think of America, we think of tolerance,
>common sense, porn being seen - quite rightly - as one more branch of
>showbiz. But we also think of people like Max, and it makes us
>wonder...the 2 countries in the world we have most in common with
>culturally - the USA and Germany - can't get enough piss in their
>vids. To us, the American fascination with extreme porn is not so much
>about sex as it is about power.
Please speak on your own behalf rather than as the voice of the
nation.
>We may live in a repressed,
>sex-negative society (worse - British media is now suffused with
>sexual images, while your average British girl won't screw you even if
>she wants to for fear of being labelled a slut)
Again, this is a point on which you should speak for yourself :-)
>but if a girl says
>"no, I don't want to fuck you", we take the approach of "well, I
>should try harder next time" rather than "aaarrrrgghhhhhhh FUCK YOU
>BITCH!!!"
>
>Anyway, the point is that most of the top British producers/directors
>make a real effort to treat the girls fairly and with respect. If what
>you're doing is really just fucking in front of a camera, then as a 17
>year old girl you're not in any danger (most Brit porn babes carry on
>their working lives as hairdressers, clerks, shop girls etc.
>throughout their porn career). Here, we get the impression that in
>America - and this may be a distorted picture - there's a lot more
>drug addiction, abuse, prostitution, violence etc. going on in the
>porn world. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what we hear
>about things like domestic violence and date-rape (no Brit would even
>WANT to screw a girl who's semi-comatose!)
Oh don't be silly. Rape is, sadly, a commonplace crime in the UK -
just as it is in most of the Western World.
Basementchild
> old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have
on
> thier lives.
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body so
to
> speak.
> valley, the unquelchable appetite of aging baby boomers with disposable cash
> and the desire to recapture a bit of youth by watching young girls being
> visciously fucked has produced an avalanche of videos starring waifs .
> suitcase pimps are steering thier naive girlfriends into the hands of
> perverts like Robert Black and Alex Hiddell, hoping to use the girl to get a
> foot in the bizness themselves, talent scouts are making thier rounds sweet
> talking 18 years old into porn.
> many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they came.
> Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
in
> that years time they can be assured of being introduced to drugs, passed
around
> like Marilyn Monroe at the Kennedy compound, being gangbanged, ass fucked,
ass
> to mouthed and just about being treated like garbage.
> luckily for the girls Bestiality and fistfucking are a European
speciality
> or they would all be sharing time with Fido before returning to Grand
Rapids or
> Iowa, or where ever, one thing is for sure, though the porn fan will miss
> Anastasia and Guage, the men behind and in front of the camera won't even
> remember thier names.
> there is always onother young dumb idiot coming off the bus. a sucker is
> truly born every minute.
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely
illegal.
> and thats only morally right.
This silly argument is easily disposed of: If 18-year old girls and
boys can volunteer to throw their lives away in the military, then
what's the problem with showing their genitals? What if the 21-year
old girl is mentally ill, or retarded? Should they be given the MMPI
or an IQ test before doing the video?
If we wouldn't hesitate to have sex with an 18-year old, then we
shouldn't feel guilty about watching them on video. Furthermore, I
think it is foolish to give any ground to the censorious, religious
right. 18 is legal. Keep it that way!
Basementchild
Ridley99
>> >and suck on camera, suddenly meeting Max or ending up on the set of
>> >"Rough Sex 2" (which happened: we in Britain were "treated" to a
>> >disturbing documentary about the English girl in that, who arrived in
>> >America thinking she was gonna make more fuck films, and ended up
>> >traumatised by being coerced into that movie)...I dunno.
you see this is the kind of shit i am talking about. the problem with the
porn industyy is there are no controlling kegal authority ( not a joke ). in
other words its like the wild wild west ...anything goes.
how many 18 year old girls have literrally been destroyed or have suffered
emotional trauma at the hands of men who have no conscience other then they
want to get laid and humiliate the girl in the process.
the human shipwreck that is Chasey Lain, Savana's suicide. and on and on.
what porn needs is what every job has, when you are hired and the paper
work begins for payroll and such , you go to Orientation, where everything is
explained to you.
there should be an Orientation for girls 20-18 where they are told the
risks, they are told about the Max Hardcores and Alex Hiddell, so they donn't
walk into an ambush.
girls under 21 should also be drug tested before shoots.
porn is not easy for a girl especially gonzo porn. girls should know exactly
what they are getting into. we cannot assume an 18 year old girl will know who
Max Hardcore is. or what happens in one of his videos. let them havre to watch
one of his vids before performing.
truly this can't go on. if we are a civil and moral society we have to take
care of our own.
18 year old girls especially ones coming from adverse situations are in no
position to know how much 6 months in porn can damage them. these are abviously
pretty girls with a lot in front of them, they don't need to make such a
tradgic mistake. let them wait 3 years and if they are still in the mind to do
porn that let them do it. but some girls are chosen for the simple reason that
they ARE 18 and once they turn 19 or 20 are thrown away like used condoms.
the 18 year old british girl that was almost " tricked " into performing in
a Max video is just one example we know about, one that has come to light for
various reasons,this girl was lucky but how many other girl are taken advantage
of, tricked into doing what they don't want to do , simply because thier will
power is weak, there must be a thousand nasty sordid stories of 18 years old
being used and abused, some girls probably don't even get on camera ..they are
probably fucked over in hotel rooms by guys like Dick Nasty and Ron Jeremy and
then go running home to mama.
this shit is just plain wrong and something should be done. i am writing my
Senator and Congressman today.
MarkusRippel
go to the Wonderland and tell your statements Alice. What=B4s wrong with you=
guy
outside?
A girl with 18 is old enough to fuck and it=B4s her problem if she want=B4s=20=
to do
pornfilms!!!!!
Please stop the term i can=B4t hear this shit again!!! In a land where a 16=20
years
old boy or girl are able to drive a car, they are old enough with 18 to fuck=
,
suck dick and do anal!!!
If you don=B4t like pornmovies go to disney and watch Bambi or Toy Story!!!
I thank God, that i can live in Germany!!!!
Greetings to all people who are thinking like me.
Markus
Gabriel.Nine
[snip]
> there should be an Orientation for girls 20-18 where they are told the
> risks, they are told about the Max Hardcores and Alex Hiddell, so they
donn't
> walk into an ambush.
> girls under 21 should also be drug tested before shoots.
Why under 21? Why not over 21s? Or is this another half-baked idea?
> porn is not easy for a girl especially gonzo porn. girls should know
exactly
> what they are getting into. we cannot assume an 18 year old girl will know
who
> Max Hardcore is. or what happens in one of his videos. let them havre to
watch
> one of his vids before performing.
Well, actually I find it really remarkable the number of girls who get into
this scene and then claim they have no idea who Max is. Latest example: read
on Extreme Associates about Hazel. First job with Max, not a good time. Who
is to blame? Her agent, I believe.
[snip]> the 18 year old british girl that was almost " tricked " into
performing in
> a Max video is just one example we know about, one that has come to light
for
> various reasons,this girl was lucky but how many other girl are taken
advantage
> of, tricked into doing what they don't want to do , simply because thier
will
> power is weak, there must be a thousand nasty sordid stories of 18 years
old
> being used and abused, some girls probably don't even get on camera ..they
are
> probably fucked over in hotel rooms by guys like Dick Nasty and Ron Jeremy
and
> then go running home to mama.
Let's get this straight about the British girl... Leanne McQueen, if that is
who you are referring to. What happened according to the documentary was
that she, a girl WELL over 18 (mid 20s?), having already had porn
experience, went to LA to try to make more money for her daughter. She was
(mis)represented by Dick Nasty (called Richard in the film in a vain bid for
respectability) and taken to Max, among others, ostensibly for a test. That
was what she thought was going to happen, apparently, but instead Max got
her to do a scene, which she agreed to once at his house, in a very awkward
situation. He went straight into it, seemingly starting to fuck her with no
warm up at all. Then once the shoot went on, she couldn't take what happened
to her and rushed to the room used as a dressing room. They were shown
arguing and he at first tried to talk her into continuing in polite
language. Then he started to berate her and though it was not shown, she
decided to continue some point therafter. Then after this, the director of
the documentary claimed he had to jump in and stop what was happening. Then
a couple of days later, she did a shoot for Rough Sex...go figure. She was
portrayed as having deep-rooted emotional problems and was clearly mixed up.
The bottom line is your 21 rule would have done fuck all to help her. I'd
say as much of the problem lies with "agents" who are more concerned with
screwing their clients (in both senses) than representing their best
interests.
> this shit is just plain wrong and something should be done. i am
writing my
> Senator and Congressman today.
And tell them how you complained John T Bone's Choke The Bitch flick wasn't
hard enough for you. I mean, come on Ridley, your author's listing on amri
is one big catalogue of every "extreme" blow-job tape released you could get
your hands on.
Xenophile
if the 21-year-old is *immature* for her age? Girls (and guys, for
that matter) should be able to do soft-core stuff at whatever is the
age of consent in their state (parents' permission required if under
18). Two years after that, you can do hard-core (again, parents'
permission required if under 18).
Then if you want to insure that the poor little things (a rather
patronizing way of looking at these young women) aren't caught by
surprise, tell your rep and senator to pass a law saying that before a
person of ANY age and of EITHER sex can do hard-core, they have to
have spent at least a year doing soft-core. Another good move would
be that all details of the performer is expected to do be spelled out
ahead of time. Are you going to be playing with your pussy while you
suck a dick? or are three dicks and a vibrator going to be shoved up
your ass at the same time? Are you expected to kiss a pretty girl
while she *fondles* your balls? or are you going to be tied
spread-eagle while the pretty girl *kicks* you in the balls? It would
be good to know before signing anything which it is. This should NOT
end when you turn 21.
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
Satyric8
arguments Ridley, I applaud you for voicing concerns about this
matter. I've rented and jerked off to my fair share of "barely legal"
and "18 and nasty" porn so maybe I'm being a little hypocritical but I
do think the age could be upped to 19. I think 21 is unrealistic And
certainly there are 35 year olds not being mature enough to be in porn
while some 18 year olds can handle it fine. But one more year of
growth and maturity before deciding to make a life changing decision
about having sex on film does make sense to me.
However this is NOT something I want mandated by the lousy government.
I know it won't happen but if the porn companies could all agree they
will only use people 19 and over I would have no problem with it. But
what they could do for sure is have an Orientation similar to what you
speak of for women of all ages entering porn. That absolutely should
be required.
Speelie
>
>I thank God, that i can live in Germany!!!!
>
>Greetings to all people who are thinking like me.
Ridley has swung from extreme to extreme. He was very excited about some
fairly extreme videos, now he condemns the same things. Hopefully his next step
is to find some middle ground, realizing that there are videos too extreme for
his taste, along with porn that includes fully functional, consenting adults
having fun with each other. People are, or get, messed up in every area of
life. That includes porn, and it is inevitable. So don't worry so much about
it, and if you see a series you don't approve of, stop putting your money
towards it. I'm sure there is some variety of porn for Ridley and everyone to
enjoy, it just varies from person to person.
Otis
came across like I was speaking for the whole country. Although, I
maintain that I've never ever seen a Max Hardcore movie on sale in
London, so either their appearance on the shelves is extremely rare or
they're so popular they're all gone by the time I get there.
And there's nothing about extreme or rough porn that is in itself
abusive (I get really wound up at the British authorities' continued
treatment of bondage and s/m as abuse and thus illegal, and I love the
Rocco: Animal Trainer series) - it's just the feeling many people get
when they watch one of the low-end vids that the situations contained
in them aren't quite as mutually rewarding as you'd hope. At best,
you're watching a girl put up with something horrible, at worst you're
watching that Max/Rough Sex scenario we discussed. If someone shows me
a rough vid full of genuinely masochistic women enjoyin every minute
of it, then I'll be first in the queue. I'm not saying Brits are
morally superior, just that British porn isn't quite so unscrupulous
in how it uses the girls.
Also, I wasn't saying that rape isn't commonplace in the UK, just that
the practise of a guy who's otherwise not usually a violent psycho
loading a girl's drink with Rohypnol then raping her as she lies
semi-conscious is not only a lot rarer here, but it's generally seen
as such a weird thing to do that it makes no sense even from the point
of view of a complete misogynistic thug.
One more thing - Leeanne from the documentary was actually 24 or 25,
but looked younger. The programme *was* indeed massively and
unprofessionally sensationalist, but in the sense that it tried to
imply that this was the everyday reality of US porn rather than an
example of US porn at it's worst. When I say she was "coerced" I mean
this: she was pressurised endlessly ("You don't have to enjoy it, just
do it"..."What do you mean you don't like anal, the point is you could
physically do it...") to do things she'd previously rejected as
"abuse". Shaken from Max skullfucking her without warning and choking
her to panic, then being lambasted and insulted by him for walking off
set, she was booked to appear in RS2 the morning of the shoot and
turned up not having much idea what was going on. As a result of her
experiences in LA (which were largely due to the deeply unpleasant
Dick Nasty), she left the business traumatised.
That's what I'm saying: that if Vivien Valentine is sure she enjoyed
getting that black eye from Jon Dough, then I'll watch it happening
and enjoy it. But how many of those girls gasping for air with drool
all over their chin are just wishing they'd never got involved in this
in the first place, and - crucially - didn't know exactly what was
going to happen. There's nothing wrong with any kind of sex that's
totally consensual, even for money, and adults have to have the
responsiibility of making bad decisions anyway - I don't subscribe to
Ridley's apocalyptic visions. But that doesn't mean we should keep
shovelling girls into the furnace without being 100% sure that they
don't mind burning.
Patrick Riley
>OK, I was only speaking for myself and everyone I know, sorry if it
>came across like I was speaking for the whole country.
Forgive us if we gain the impression that you, lattara, and
gabrielnine speak for the entire United Kingdom, except the Queen, of
course. I realize she's above all this. Despite your protestations to
the contrary, it seems that all three of you are slightly...um, how
shall I put this delicately... perverted. Add in noted English
directors Frank Thring and Clive McLean and let's not forget our
friend, Steve Perry, and the evidence is practically conclusive: the
whole of Great Britain is a total sewer, almost as bad as Germany
where I'm sure they have the toilets hooked up to the food production
so they can get their daily intake of feces.
You personally do drive? I hope so. There's still a chance that one of
you might turn out normally.
>And there's nothing about extreme or rough porn that is in itself
>abusive (I get really wound up at the British authorities' continued
>treatment of bondage and s/m as abuse and thus illegal, and I love the
>Rocco: Animal Trainer series)
Whoa, there. Rocco's Animal Trainer, eh? I've only had the distasteful
experience of watching #2, so maybe the rest are all sweetness and
light but I doubt it. Presuming they're in the same vein, you're
showing exactly the same hypocrisy as Ridley--well, maybe not exactly,
he's less articulate.
You (and from what I've seen your fellow poms mentioned above) would
love to grab some ugly Euro-whore--the "ugly" is redundant but
included for emphasis--and see how big a dildo you can shove up all
her orifices, and then you'd like to choke-fuck her holding her down
as you do so, and then for the piece de resistance you'd bring in a
few of your equally sleazy mates and ram your (huge, of course) dick
up her asshole and watch while your mates do the same thing. If two of
you can rub your dicks together that will provide some extra thrill.
Oh, you'll tell yourself it's not gay because they'll be separated by
the thin tissue that divides the rectum from the vagina. Eh, wink,
wink, nudge, nudge? The icing on the cake will be the climax when you
inundate her face (deciliters, of course) hopefully getting it in her
eyes.
Sheesh, it's not Max we have to worry about, it's the fantasies of the
average (in this case) British raincoater.
Oh, and please, spare us the bullshit about your watching just for the
car wreck experience, or for educational purposes, or because you
can't get anything else. People watch what they want to do in real
life.
>Also, I wasn't saying that rape isn't commonplace in the UK, just that
>the practise of a guy who's otherwise not usually a violent psycho
>loading a girl's drink with Rohypnol then raping her as she lies
>semi-conscious is not only a lot rarer here, but it's generally seen
>as such a weird thing to do that it makes no sense even from the point
>of view of a complete misogynistic thug.
And, as they say in the more refined NG's: Do you have some
peer-reviewed study which establishes this as fact, or perhaps some
statistics? No? Didn't think so.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Brian
<snip>
> a Max video is just one example we know about, one that has come to light for
> various reasons,this girl was lucky but how many other girl are taken advantage
> of, tricked into doing what they don't want to do , simply because thier will
> power is weak, there must be a thousand nasty sordid stories of 18 years old
> being used and abused, some girls probably don't even get on camera ..they are
> probably fucked over in hotel rooms by guys like Dick Nasty and Ron Jeremy and
> then go running home to mama.
> this shit is just plain wrong and something should be done. i am writing my
> Senator and Congressman today.
You my friend represent everything that is wrong with this country
today. Don't you think we already have enough government imposed
restrictions on what we can or cannot do with our genitals? Age is a
number. In my state, 15 year olds drive cars. A car is a dangerous
piece of machinery capable of snuffing out multiple lives in a single
instant. Let me see if I understand where you're coming from. You
believe that a teenager is mature enough to be entrusted with the
lives of everyone around them while driving. You also believe that
it's perfectly fine for them to be shipped overseas to kill and die
for their country. However,you feel that an 18 year old simply can't
be trusted with the decision of what to do with her own body? I don't
know about you but I'm much more concerned about that 16 year old
drving that huge SUV that's riding my bumper at 75 mph chatting with
his girlfriend on his dad's cell phone than I am the 18 year olds who
decide they want to go into porn.
This is the type of extremist tripe that really worries me. What's
next? A law mandating that you're not old enough to masturbate until
you understand the concept of chafed skin?
Gabriel.Nine
news:rame.994394409p8522@bash...
> massiv...@hotmail.com (Otis) wrote:
>
> >OK, I was only speaking for myself and everyone I know, sorry if it
> >came across like I was speaking for the whole country.
>
> Forgive us if we gain the impression that you, lattara, and
> gabrielnine speak for the entire United Kingdom, except the Queen, of
> course. I realize she's above all this. Despite your protestations to
> the contrary, it seems that all three of you are slightly...um, how
> shall I put this delicately... perverted. Add in noted English
> directors Frank Thring and Clive McLean and let's not forget our
> friend, Steve Perry, and the evidence is practically conclusive: the
> whole of Great Britain is a total sewer, almost as bad as Germany
> where I'm sure they have the toilets hooked up to the food production
> so they can get their daily intake of feces.
>
Luv ya, Pat, thanks for all the attention you have been paying to my posts.
If you are looking for some one to debate you on this look elsewhere! Keep
up the good work!
The only thing I would comment on is...perverse? Who was it that said the
only decent movies he had seen from Europe was David Hamilton's work? Can
you hear the sirens Pat?
I am sorry I am no longer able to share a reciprocal critique of your work,
Pat, because I don't really pay any attention to what you say, this being an
unfortunate exception.
[snipped the rest]
Mike Paul
> Oh, and please, spare us the bullshit about your watching just for the
> car wreck experience, or for educational purposes, or because you
> can't get anything else. People watch what they want to do in real
> life.
Really? Huh, when I tried that with g/g scenes, and Frank argued, you
didn't say a thing...
> Patrick Riley
Mike Paul
In a choice of lead, follow, or get out of the way, you got...
Otis
> news:rame.994394409p8522@bash...
> > Forgive us if we gain the impression that you, lattara, and
> > gabrielnine speak for the entire United Kingdom, except the Queen, of
> > course. I realize she's above all this.
Don't bet on it.
My point is, I'd gladly gang-bang a "Euro whore" in the manner you
described, but only if it was going to make her cum, and not if it
came as an unwelcome surprise to her (which is my worry about Max,
Rough Sex 2 etc). Just as happy with "couples-oriented" sex, in life
or on tape, and of course I have no statistics to back that last point
up: opinions, based on anecdotal experience, and announced as such.
Torris
>
>If one can't be in a movie til 21, then no can rent
>til 21 either?
In several states (Wyoming, maybe Nevada) the legal age to rent is 21
Torris
"Rehab is for quitters"
Torris
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18 years
>old girls star in porn. what 18 year old can make a rational decision about
>being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have
on
>thier lives.
> Now 21 is a whole different age, the mind has caught up with the body so
to
>speak.
then why allow 18 year olds to vote? Or go to war?
> a Holacaust of young women is happening right now in the San Fernando
>valley, the unquelchable appetite of aging baby boomers with disposable cash
>and the desire to recapture a bit of youth by watching young girls being
>visciously fucked has produced an avalanche of videos starring waifs .
Why blame iton the aging baby boomers? I was that way watching porn
even at 20. Had little use for anyone over the age of 25. This is
exactly why I'm glad Gore or Liberman lost the election
> suitcase pimps are steering thier naive girlfriends into the hands of
>perverts like Robert Black and Alex Hiddell, hoping to use the girl to get a
>foot in the bizness themselves, talent scouts are making thier rounds sweet
>talking 18 years old into porn.
thank god for freedom of choice in the goood old USA. What would you
have them doing then Ridley? Making less then minimum wage
waitressing? At the very least a porn livelihood means one less
desperate person trying to rob my house or steal my car. Same reason
why I, as a childless property owner, have no problem paying for
schooling. Keep those kids in class til I can get home from work
> many girls have arrived been fucked over and retreated the way they came.
>Anastasia Blue, Guage to name a few.
> the average life span of these 18 year cup cakes is 6 months to a year,
Perfect. Look at all the bad examples (Nina Hartley, Sharon Kane,
Jeanna Fine) of those who try to make a career out of porn. I look at
porn as the 18 year old girl's bank loan officer. If she's smart she
can take that cash from spreading her orifices to buy a share in a
Quizno or Subway franchise.
in
>that years time they can be assured of being introduced to drugs, passed
around
>like Marilyn Monroe at the Kennedy compound, being gangbanged, ass fucked,
ass
>to mouthed and just about being treated like garbage.
Well there's always Vivid they can go to. Work once a month and be on
a Billboard
> luckily for the girls Bestiality and fistfucking are a European speciality
>or they would all be sharing time with Fido before returning to Grand Rapids
or
>Iowa, or where ever, one thing is for sure, though the porn fan will miss
>Anastasia and Guage, the men behind and in front of the camera won't even
>remember thier names.
Aren't you the same guy (troll?) who regales us with tales of finding
taboo porn in the heart of darkness in the bowels of NYC?
> there is always onother young dumb idiot coming off the bus. a sucker is
>truly born every minute.
18 year old girls.....America's greatest renewable resource
> 21 is the age, 18 not only is barely legal it should be definitely
illegal.
>and thats only morally right.
So from 18 to 21 what are they supposed to do? They're probably more
at risk from falling through the cracks in those 3 years then they are
if they go do a Bring "um Young on their 18th birthday.
Gabriel.Nine
news:rame.994473605p16800@bash...
> > Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
> > news:rame.994394409p8522@bash...
>
> > > Forgive us if we gain the impression that you, lattara, and
> > > gabrielnine speak for the entire United Kingdom, except the Queen, of
> > > course. I realize she's above all this.
>
> Don't bet on it.
>
> My point is, I'd gladly gang-bang a "Euro whore" in the manner you
> described, but only if it was going to make her cum, and not if it
> came as an unwelcome surprise to her (which is my worry about Max,
> Rough Sex 2 etc). Just as happy with "couples-oriented" sex, in life
> or on tape, and of course I have no statistics to back that last point
> up: opinions, based on anecdotal experience, and announced as such.
Oh no, Otis! You have fallen into Riley's fiendish trap, can't you hear him
chuckling in his dungeon as we speak. I have made the same mistake in the
past.
Why argue with him about a whole load of stuff that is entirely the product
of his own warped imagination? Why defend a position you never said you held
in the first place? All he is looking for is for you to rise to the bait.
Maybe one time he might actually bother to discuss a subject rather than
sharing his "caustic wit"/"crass insults" (delete as appropriate) with us in
an attempt to get you to respond in kind. What was this thread about
again...
"Don't give 'em the satisfaction, the fucks..."
Patrick Riley
>In article <rame.994394409p8522@bash>, p_r...@pipeline.com says...
>> Oh, and please, spare us the bullshit about your watching just for the
>> car wreck experience, or for educational purposes, or because you
>> can't get anything else. People watch what they want to do in real
>> life.
>Really? Huh, when I tried that with g/g scenes, and Frank argued, you
>didn't say a thing...
>In a choice of lead, follow, or get out of the way, you got...
Notwithstanding anything expressed in the foregoing, or which has been
expressed by me or others talking or writing on my behalf at any time
in the past, present, or future since the beginning of time, or if you
happen to believe in creationism, since the creation of Adam and Eve,
in any place or location, physical or virtual, and regardless of the
means of expression, and particularly but without limiting the
generality of the foregoing, on any newsgroup, whether published or
not ... blah, blah, blah ...(statement inserted to clarify matters for
the particularly dense, or pretend dense)... it's quite clear that I
was referring to some form of raincoater sex not to g/g scenes nor
individual solo scenes (in which pretend masturbation or actual
masturbation may or may not occur).
I'm sure there are guys watching little cutie pies just lying there
near naked and what she's doing bears no relation to what they'd like
to do to her, however, when there is something going on ... [re-read
original post].
Sheesh...
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Druber
Frans]
ridl...@aol.com (Ridley99) wrote in message news:<rame.993354005p27689@bash>
>>>>the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let
18
I am really not one of those who dig the girly stuff, never rented
“Barly legal” and the such, but Ridleys proposal sounds
dead silly to me. So what is the age, one can really judge what
decisions effect life in what way: 21?, 35?, 46?, 83? Come on –
lets try to be realistic! There is only one way out: Stop consuming
porn; become radical!
Me, I forget about some of the side effects of porn – and try to
enjoy it. 18 is a common sense age. It At18 girls are still open for
new things,
they learn easily. For European productions this age limit suits
perfectly well. Most of our porn stars come from Eastern Europe, stay
in the biz for about 4 years at the most, which allowes them to return
to so called normal life after their porn career. Rising the age limit
would just make it harder for them to re-integrate.
And now, please dont start citing me actresses being forced into
something by Max Hardcore and the likes. Work always is connected with
uncertainties, new fields. What is the difference whether I work twice
over shift at the gaz station though this is not an outlined part of
my contract, or my director wants me to perform anal, whereas I was
not aware of it?
And, besides, there are a lot of girls enjoying what they do –
for everything you cannot fake, even if you are told to. And the ones
looking miserable should either leave the business or try to get used
to it. Me as a consumer I pay them for playing a role and that often
includes anal, dap, fisting etc. If they enjoy it, fine. If not, they
shall prentend to. What they think and feel about, is their business.
I also do not really dig in the mental trauma thing. Of course you
cite some extreme cases. If I got it right, most American stars
experienced some sort of (child)abuse before entering the biz. So that
is where the mental trauma originates from. Cynically by starring in a
porn movie you can at least get some
cash out of it.
Druber
Mike Paul
> it's quite clear that I
> was referring to some form of raincoater sex not to g/g scenes nor
> individual solo scenes (in which pretend masturbation or actual
> masturbation may or may not occur).
You'll strip your gears backpedaling like that.
If "People watch what they want to do in real life." doesn't apply to g/g
as well as 'raincoater sex', the whole idea of picking on people for
watching it falls apart. Whatever 'out' you give to g/g, the raincoaters
can take too.
Pick on everyone, or pick on no one. Take your choice...
> Sheesh...
>
> Patrick Riley
Mike Paul
That's what I say too...
Voyager
wrote:
Torris...
>Perfect. Look at all the bad examples (Nina Hartley, Sharon Kane,
>Jeanna Fine) of those who try to make a career out of porn. I look at
>porn as the 18 year old girl's bank loan officer. If she's smart she
>can take that cash from spreading her orifices to buy a share in a
>Quizno or Subway franchise.
I'd volunteer to meet with the new girls and help them fill out their
bank loan applications. I could probably be an ez bank loan officer if
properly motivated.... But rest assured, only the worthy girls would
be provided loans.... Also, I must warn them now, I have a thing for
legible penmanship....
Say, I don't get out much in the mainstream, but what the hey is a
Quizno franchise? Hopefully, something akin to a Tastee Freeze where
a proprietor can hire fresh, firm talent to work the counter?
Voyager
wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 05:24:02, isgreen <isgree...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>If one can't be in a movie til 21, then no can rent
>>til 21 either?
>
>In several states (Wyoming, maybe Nevada) the legal age to rent is 21
>
I know its 21 in Missouri (KS side of my local state line area really
has no porn stores in it, though they have some couples oriented
stores
http://go.to/Priscillas
which rent videos (small selection, nothing we'd get excited about)
I wunder in 18 year olds can rent here in KS?
Actually, its good that 18 year olds can't rent porn. They need to be
finding out about life & porn in the gutter where I done learned it.
;-)
rObert
> the more i think of it the madder i get , really how can they let 18 years
> being in a porn movie,or can serioulsy calculate the effect this will have
on
> thier lives.
Do you feel the same way about 18-year-olds and the military? "what
18 year old can make a rational decision about being in a" profession
that be its very nature may call upon this nubile young girl to lose
her life over a political conflict she likely had no direct interest
in? Just curious.
cutter
bad you don't own a Quiznos where I live, no porn quality girls behind the
counter there :-}
"Voyager" <Voya...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rame.994600810p1824@bash...
Druber
> I'm sure there are guys watching little cutie pies just lying there
> near naked and what she's doing bears no relation to what they'd like
> to do to her, however, when there is something going on ...
I really dont understand what makes it so difficult for you to
understand, Pat, that not all of us are watching porn to fantazize
about real life installments.
Of course eveyone prefers to watch actresses that appeal to him. When
it comes to the real young ones, the problem ist, that the biz, trying
to supply what the customer demands, might try to get new flesh even
under 18. This however brings them on a dangerous legal fringe, most
dont want to face. So they resolve to contracting 18+ year olds making
them look younger, casually.
Me, I dont need this baby faces, but I still do enjoy them once in a
while. Whats wrong with a near naked cutie being fucked to my
amusement? Does watching her whimper as her ass gets torn, enjoying
her face express a mixture of lust and pain, make me want to do the
same with the teens in my sports class? No!!! I am glad they did not
choose to enter porn (or at least I do not know about it), as glad as
I am that others I do not know, choose to enter the biz, choose to get
some extra-money entertaining me, performing acts I would never
perform on them. For I would choose older women, women I could rely
to, share my thoughts and not only my spunk.
Druber
Torris
>Ridley - please please please stop referring to Auchwitz, Nazis and
>The Holocaust when you discuss porn movies. Some of us over in Europe
>find this a little tasteless. Andrea Dworkin used to come out with
>that shit, and who takes her seriously anymore?
some of us on this side of the pond feel that way too. To compare
something like porn; where no one dies, where no one is herded against
their will to death camps certainly dulls the true comparatives
happening today in the world like in Afghanistan, Sudan (Nasty bit in
this month's Penthouse about Arab Sudanese enslaving and raping,
killing their Southern Christian/animist inhabitants) etc. The imagery
of the Holocaust becomes akin to the boy who cried wolf when used
inappropriately and in fact bears out the weakness in Ridley's
argument when he feels compelled to cloak himself,
hysterically/hypocritically behind what the Holocaust conveys to most
people.
Torris
"Rehab is for quitters"
Patrick Riley
>> Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
>> news:rame.994394409p8522@bash...
>My point is, I'd gladly gang-bang a "Euro whore" in the manner you
>described,
Wow, refreshing honesty. Maybe you could convince some of your
similarly-minded raincoaters to admit the same.
> but only if it was going to make her cum,
Oh, don't whipsaw me like that. You don't really think any of the
girls in these movies, especially not Animal Trainer and the like,
actually have orgasms based on their activities, do you? That's as
gullible as Ed thinking that his girls "love older men".
> and not if it
>came as an unwelcome surprise to her (which is my worry about Max,
>Rough Sex 2 etc).
Well, OK, but you do realize that we're talking about an infinitesimal
number of girls here which is hardly a good basis for generalization
to porn as a whole. Nor, when it comes down to it, are these girls
suffering any significant damage physically and mentally the word(s)
porn-whore should tell you something.
Memo to self: Can a raincoater be at the same time a slavering fan boy
and a raincoater? It appears so. By some mind-bending mental
gymnastics, he can be in love with the girl and at the same time want
to see her degraded and abused. Bizarre!
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Patrick Riley
>If "People watch what they want to do in real life." doesn't apply to g/g
>as well as 'raincoater sex', the whole idea of picking on people for
>watching it falls apart. Whatever 'out' you give to g/g, the raincoaters
>can take too.
>Pick on everyone, or pick on no one. Take your choice...
Nonsense. Tell me, have you ever looked at a centerfold--the real ones
in print, say in Penthouse or Playboy? You'd be the only one on the
planet if you deny this. What runs through your mind? "Jeez, I'd like
to fuck her. I wonder whether her butt feels warm or cold when I'm
doing her doggie. I wonder what her voice is like. Does she mew like a
cat or scream like a banshee? I can feel her silky thighs now as I
separate them. Ooo, she's tight...[continued in alt.sex.stories <g>]"
Put it on tape and you have the same reaction. The idea that she's
fooling around with her pussy is just padding. Maybe she's getting
herself lubed up for you.
When we come to g/g's that's just like two solo scenes most of the
time. I suppose you could imagine yourself as the dildo sinking into
her hole or in a good g/g scene imagine yourself as the dominant girl
but most g/g scenes don't show sufficient imagination to allow this to
work. Alternatively, a really good g/g would have the dominant girl
preparing her lipstick gal pal for your schlong, getting past the
boring and physically demanding foreplay so you can join in just at
the right moment and hopefully the dyke can disappear.
So, for the simple-minded, putting it in near words of one syllable,
at the physical level you're not there in solo and g/g scenes; at a
mental level, you're still screwing the girl. The girl is offering
sex, even the centerfold, and you're availing yourself of it. You just
have to make some mental adjustments to be the center of the action.
In the real sex (b/g) scene, life is a lot simpler and you don't have
to do as much mental work. Hence in a b/g scene the male is
associating with the action, giving the girl a gigantic facial, for
example, whereas in the g/g or solo scene, he's associating with the
girl, not the action.
Have you finished nit-picking now?
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Mike Paul
> So, for the simple-minded, putting it in near words of one syllable,
> at the physical level you're not there in solo and g/g scenes; at a
> mental level, you're still screwing the girl. The girl is offering
> sex, even the centerfold, and you're availing yourself of it. You just
> have to make some mental adjustments to be the center of the action.
> In the real sex (b/g) scene, life is a lot simpler and you don't have
> to do as much mental work. Hence in a b/g scene the male is
> associating with the action, giving the girl a gigantic facial, for
> example, whereas in the g/g or solo scene, he's associating with the
> girl, not the action.
Uhhh, I hate to argue but... B^)
You must not read too many replies here. PLENTY, and I mean plenty of
guys say they aren't vicariously 'becoming' the guy in the scene, they
just watch.
The same thing they do when watching g/g is what they do when watching
b/g. "Associating with the girl, not the action"? Sure! However they
manage to do it, it's done.
Now, you can claim it's not true, and they *are* mentally doing what the
guys does, but it's you versus them at that point.
That's the 'out'. That's how a guy can tell you with a straight face he
may watch anal fisting and enjoy it, but it's nothing he'd want to do.
He's on some higher moral plain than that, and since *he* knows what he
thinks, he knows you're just blowing hot air...
> Have you finished nit-picking now?
>
> Patrick Riley
Mike Paul
Why sure, Pat; whatever you say...
Voyager
wrote:
> Pat sayz....
>When we come to g/g's that's just like two solo scenes most of the
>time. I suppose you could imagine yourself as the dildo sinking into
>her hole or in a good g/g scene imagine yourself as the dominant girl
>but most g/g scenes don't show sufficient imagination to allow this to
>work. Alternatively, a really good g/g would have the dominant girl
>preparing her lipstick gal pal for your schlong, getting past the
>boring and physically demanding foreplay so you can join in just at
>the right moment and hopefully the dyke can disappear.
>
Then there are those of us Pat who want the lip-stick-dyke (if she is
a diesel dyke then you gotta quickly reach for Torris' beer goggles)
to stick around, and watch to see what she has been missing, soon she
is begging to give into, the dark side. :-)
Patrick Riley
>Now, you can claim it's not true, and they *are* mentally doing what the
>guys does, but it's you versus them at that point.
>That's the 'out'. That's how a guy can tell you with a straight face he
>may watch anal fisting and enjoy it, but it's nothing he'd want to do.
>He's on some higher moral plain than that, and since *he* knows what he
>thinks, he knows you're just blowing hot air...
Sure he can say that however I can also say that he's delusional or
simply lying. Since there's strong pressure to conform to some form of
societal norm--anal fisting and the male/female relationship that it
implies is not exactly approved of in most circles--lying is way out
of an unpleasant reality.
This type of reaction occurs all over porn, not just with the
raincoater. The touchie-feelie lies to himself that he's watching porn
to improve his sex life with his SO instead of admitting that he's
mentally substituting the cute young chickie on the porn movie for his
ageing and less attractive bed companion; the guy watching the barely
legal movies tries to tell himself that he really doesn't want to
screw the 18 (or 15) year old but he keeps renting and whacking off to
just that age group and that scenario; and the "I can't believe
they're prostitutes" guy tries to tell himself that the girls are
doing it because they're exhibitionists or they just love sex (yeah,
with Ed Powers!).
Just like the early days of porn when we had those white coaters with
the pseudo doctor showing you the sexual deviancy of the younger
generation, you have to look beyond what they say to see what their
real motivation is.
Nor is the proof a "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level that you imply
is necessary. Most things in life can never meet that standard
especially when we're talking about human reaction, even less when
it's human reaction at a group level. There may indeed be tiny numbers
of raincoaters who are just watching for the "train wreck" experience
but common sense (or Ockham's razor if you prefer) tells us that the
most likely scenario is that most raincoaters want to do just what
they watch.
The honest ones admit it and let the chips fall where they may.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Frank Simmons
>You must not read too many replies here. PLENTY, and I mean plenty of
>guys say they aren't vicariously 'becoming' the guy in the scene, they
>just watch.
>The same thing they do when watching g/g is what they do when watching
>b/g. "Associating with the girl, not the action"? Sure! However they
>manage to do it, it's done.
I've been reading this thread with some amusement, especially as the two people
discussing the point are quite possibly the two RAMErs least capable of doing
so.
The problem here is simply the difference between watching porn for strictly
voyeuristic purposes, or watching it for what I shall call participatory
purposes. Riley and Mike Paul are two of the most notorious of RAME's
"participating viewers" - both of them watch porn to imagine themselves in
whatever they are watching. (This explains some of there similarities, such as
a dislike of g-g - since g-g is for the most part a strictly voyeuristic thing
to the male viewer.) On the other side of the spectrum you have the pure
voyeur viewer - the best example I can come up with off the top of my head is
basementchild. The voyeur watches simply to watch, and gets his kicks out of
observing the action rather than imagining himself as part of it. Most viewers
fall in between these extremes.
Put plain and simple, the voyeur raincoater just wants to watch the type of
stuff being discussed, whereas the participatory raincoater wants to fantasize
that he is actually doing it. Both types exist in the audience, so some people
can legitimately say that they like to watch women being abused, but would not
want to do it or imagine themselves doing it while watching the action.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The Days **
Gemini 06
> PLENTY, and I mean plenty of guys say
> they aren't vicariously 'becoming' the
> guy in the scene, they just watch.
That's the way I am. I have never pretended that I was the male(s) in a
scene. Also, I don't care if a porno movie turns me on (gives me an
erection) or not. I watch them just for fun from a camera person's point
of view. I pretend that I am the director filming the action. And to be
completely honest with you, I have never masturbated while watching a
porno movie. I usually do it hours afterwards while looking at the box
cover.
> The same thing they do when watching
> g/g is what they do when watching b/g.
> "Associating with the girl, not the
> action"? Sure! However they manage to
> do it, it's done.
As long as the females appear to be having fun and enjoying it, that's
all that matters to me. After all, the clit is much more sensitive than
the cock.
--
Goddess Victoria Jacobs
Druber
> >>massiv...@hotmail.com (Otis) wrote:
> >>My point is, I'd gladly gang-bang a "Euro whore" in the manner you
> >>described,
> You don't really think any of the
> girls in these movies, especially not Animal Trainer and the like,
> actually have orgasms based on their activities, do you?
>
> Memo to self: Can a raincoater be at the same time a slavering fan boy
> and a raincoater? It appears so. By some mind-bending mental
> gymnastics, he can be in love with the girl and at the same time want
> to see her degraded and abused. Bizarre!
Who told you, Pat, that Otis or any other raincoater is in love with
the girl he can immagine to gangbang? And why are consentual gangbangs
degrading or even abuse?
Sure, Otis is a bit on the naive side, expecting porn actresses to get
orgasms from such acts. I guess, he wrote that restrained by societies
guilt-culture as he did not want to admit he just wants to fuck first
and foremost for his own joy.
For me and many raincoaters (I hope for Otis, too!) it is not more
than a pure fan-thing. You adore a star for the way she acts, looks,
the acts she performs on scene. More than often this includes acts you
cannot get of the girl you are really in love with, maybe you even
dont want to. Its no mind-bending at all, its just save and healthy to
be a fan.
It seemes to me your mind just has not enough bends to separate love
from sex.
Druber
MarkusRippel
Hello again,
this is it what i mean. First you were Saulus and then he went to Paulus.
Why can´t we stop this term? In a land where a 12 or 13 years old boy or girls
can get a gun or drugs what is wrong about to have sex with 18 in the
pornbusiness?
I don´t understand the rights and laws of America. Here in Germany every state
have the same laws or rights. There are no different between Bavaria or
Nordrhein-Westfalen in the laws.
Here in Germany we have no problem with our sexuality. We can see naked people
in the normal TV. In our promotionclips you can see naked woman or men the
whole day.
Our laws are against crime in movies. They often cut movies like Terminator 2
or Blade Runner. They don´t wanna see to much killing or fighting. This is the
difference between Germany and the USA.
I don´t understand why fisting or pissing isn´t allowed in USA Pornmovies. But
i have read the previews from Cocktails 2 from Extreme. I don´t understand why
it is allowed to drink spunk or puke and any other strange things? I think it
is really dangerous to drink this shit. You can go ill, like Hepatithis B or
others.
I don´t wanna eat my own puke.
Ridley wrote he is against Max Hardcore why he punishes and piss off girls. I
understand this thing but if the girls wants to do this things it´s her own
problem. Please don´t tell me, that´s the girls have no internet. You can surfe
to his Homepage and can see what his doing. And if the agent sent her to Max we
have to accuse the agent.
I have read bad things from glamour firms like Wicked and Vivid, too. They
wan´t that the grils make her tits bigger. This is a bad thing, too. I wanna
see normal tits. I wanna see the truth and no cut or Alice in the Wonderland
Sex.
I hope anybody is with me.
Greetings
Markus
Mike Paul
> I've been reading this thread with some amusement, especially as the
> two people discussing the point are quite possibly the two RAMErs
> least capable of doing so.
I love you too, Frank... B^)
> The problem here is simply the difference between watching porn for
> strictly voyeuristic purposes, or watching it for what I shall call
> participatory purposes. Riley and Mike Paul are two of the most
> notorious of RAME's "participating viewers" - both of them watch porn
> to imagine themselves in whatever they are watching. (This explains
> some of there similarities, such as a dislike of g-g - since g-g is
> for the most part a strictly voyeuristic thing to the male viewer.)
> On the other side of the spectrum you have the pure voyeur viewer - the
> best example I can come up with off the top of my head is basementchild.
> The voyeur watches simply to watch, and gets his kicks out of
> observing the action rather than imagining himself as part of it.
> Most viewers fall in between these extremes.
Well, this is just a rehash of my old "voyeur versus escapist" theory, but
with the addition of a BIG place for you to put yourself in some middle
ground, for comfort (I guess.)
Me, I think kids are voyeurs (cut to 4-year-old staring at the TV), and
people "should" grow out of it as they get older, but some don't.
MY best example: there are guys who wince in sympathetic pain when they
see another guy get hit in the balls, and there are guys who just laugh.
The middle ground there is pretty-much nonexistent...
> Put plain and simple, the voyeur raincoater just wants to watch the type
> of stuff being discussed, whereas the participatory raincoater wants to
> fantasize that he is actually doing it. Both types exist in the audience,
> so some people can legitimately say that they like to watch women being
> abused, but would not want to do it or imagine themselves doing it while
> watching the action.
There's just something wrong with that example. I guess it's the
'legitimately' part, where the voyeur can lie with a straight face about
how it's good to *watch* abuse but not to *do* it.
It'd take one *colossal* asshole to make up a story like that and stick
with it...
> Frank
Mike Paul
I mean, if a guy who gets a thrill out of the abuse others inflict, while
denying he'd want to do it himself, can't be called an 'asshole', who
can?...
Patrick Riley
>Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com> wrote in message news:<rame.994725605p19990@bash>...
>> Memo to self: Can a raincoater be at the same time a slavering fan boy
>> and a raincoater? It appears so. By some mind-bending mental
>> gymnastics, he can be in love with the girl and at the same time want
>> to see her degraded and abused. Bizarre!
>Who told you, Pat, that Otis or any other raincoater is in love with
>the girl he can immagine to gangbang? And why are consentual gangbangs
>degrading or even abuse?
Aw, gee, it might be perfectly normal for some girl to be used as a
warm hole by a number of guys at the same time wherever you come from
but I'd hazard a wild guess that the rest of the world considers using
the female in such a manner as degrading to and abusive of her. Ask
yourself if you'd feel "used" after undergoing such an experience.
>For me and many raincoaters (I hope for Otis, too!) it is not more
>than a pure fan-thing. You adore a star for the way she acts, looks,
>the acts she performs on scene.
OK, I'd accept "adore" instead of "love".
> More than often this includes acts you
>cannot get of the girl you are really in love with,
I'll presume that to mean "cannot obtain from the girl..." in which
case it seems you're agreeing with me. You do want to do it (anal
fisting, gang bang, throat fucking...) to her.
> maybe you even
>dont want to.
Well, make up your mind.
> Its no mind-bending at all, its just save and healthy to
>be a fan.
I guess you're right about safe although I have my doubts as to the
healthy part.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Patrick Riley
>>From: Mike Paul mp...@sc.rr.com
>The problem here is simply the difference between watching porn for strictly
>voyeuristic purposes, or watching it for what I shall call participatory
>purposes.
Of course you realize that the other problem with the so-called
voyeuristic viewer is a question of frequency. Compare with watching a
car wreck or a chase followed by a wreck. Great the first time; really
exciting. The second...OK. When you get to the nth you start to get
pretty tired of car wrecks and car chases. So applying the same logic
to the viewing of porn movies, the first time, "Wow, they're doing it
for real", the second, "Is he really putting it up her asshole?" to
the nth, "Sheesh, this is boring". We don't have that reaction from
the raincoater; he continues to watch, hence there's something wrong
with the classification.
On the other hand, the participation angle works perfectly for
thousands of movies.
> On the other side of the spectrum you have the pure
>voyeur viewer - the best example I can come up with off the top of my head is
>basementchild.
Hmmph! I don't see basementchild in that manner. My impression is that
he simply dislikes seeing dicks in his movies, especially the parolees
who inhabit the industry. (I feel the same way about many of them too
but I find it fairly easy to mentally erase the guy. Maybe it's not so
easy for basementchild.) You will note that he frequently sends toys
to the girl to play with on his custom movies thereby having a little
bit of him at the center of the action.
Patrick Riley
The X-Rated Videotape Guides and the Star Indexes
Available in the movie section of your regular bookstore.
Frank Simmons
>> I've been reading this thread with some amusement, especially as the
>> two people discussing the point are quite possibly the two RAMErs
>> least capable of doing so.
>
>I love you too, Frank... B^)
It wasn't a slam, Mike. If you read the comments that follow, I explain that
the reason is because neither of you has the voyeur properties (and therefore
don't really understand the voyeur.) You should take that as a compliment,
since you think that voyeurism is something that is grown out of. (Personally,
I think talking about a level of maturity when discussing watching porno is a
little silly - I've always thought that the terms "adult" and "mature" were
particularly misnomers when discussing the subject for the most part.)
>Well, this is just a rehash of my old "voyeur versus escapist" theory, but
>with the addition of a BIG place for you to put yourself in some middle
>ground, for comfort (I guess.)
That's because I happen to agree with the theory, except that it doesn't allow
for the middle ground. AFAIC, that's a *big* mistake, since I think most
people fall into that middle ground. And I don't put myself there for
"comfort", I put myself there because it's true. I don't need any "comfort" -
I'm happy with where I am. I don't feel the need to justify anything, I'm
merely trying to explain.
>Me, I think kids are voyeurs (cut to 4-year-old staring at the TV), and
>people "should" grow out of it as they get older, but some don't.
>
Why "should" they? What exactly is "wrong" with voyeurism?
>MY best example: there are guys who wince in sympathetic pain when they
>see another guy get hit in the balls, and there are guys who just laugh.
>The middle ground there is pretty-much nonexistent...
Untrue - there are guys who do both. In this example, I'm i the former
category however.
>There's just something wrong with that example. I guess it's the
>'legitimately' part, where the voyeur can lie with a straight face about
>how it's good to *watch* abuse but not to *do* it.
>
Care to explain what is "wrong" with the example? I don't understand what you
are saying here. And, why do you assume that the voyeur is lying when he makes
that statement - my whole point is that you don't understand the way the
voyeur's mind works, because you aren't one. You aren't qualified to make a
judgement as to whether or not he is lying.
>It'd take one *colossal* asshole to make up a story like that and stick
>with it...
And what exactly makes him an asshole - is it that he is lying or what? It
sounds to me like you are making an assumption with nothing to base it on, and
then concluding that the person is an asshole because of your assumptions.
>I mean, if a guy who gets a thrill out of the abuse others inflict, while
>denying he'd want to do it himself, can't be called an 'asshole', who
>can?...
Again, explain why this is being an asshole.
Frank (Sometime voyeir who doesn't like "abuse" vids)
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The Days **
Xenophile
<Gabrie...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
<snikt>
>Luv ya, Pat, thanks for all the attention you have been paying to my posts.
>If you are looking for some one to debate you on this look elsewhere! Keep
>up the good work!
>The only thing I would comment on is...perverse? Who was it that said the
>only decent movies he had seen from Europe was David Hamilton's work? Can
>you hear the sirens Pat?
>I am sorry I am no longer able to share a reciprocal critique of your work,
>Pat, because I don't really pay any attention to what you say, this being an
>unfortunate exception.
>[snipped the rest]
Who is David Hamilton? The name sounds familiar.
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
Xenophile
wrote:
>massiv...@hotmail.com (Otis) wrote:
>
>>> Patrick Riley <p_r...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
>>> news:rame.994394409p8522@bash...
>
>>My point is, I'd gladly gang-bang a "Euro whore" in the manner you described,
>
>Wow, refreshing honesty. Maybe you could convince some of your similarly-minded
>raincoaters to admit the same.
To admit that we like sex? Guilty as charged. The point?
>> but only if it was going to make her cum,
>
>Oh, don't whipsaw me like that. You don't really think any of the girls in these
>movies, especially not Animal Trainer and the like, actually have orgasms based
>on their activities, do you? That's as gullible as Ed thinking that his girls
>"love older men".
He didn't say that the women *in the videos* have orgasms, he said
that if he had that sort of sex with a woman *in real life* that he'd
want her to cum. And some young women *do* love older men.
>> and not if it came as an unwelcome surprise to her (which is my worry about Max,
>>Rough Sex 2 etc).
>
>Well, OK, but you do realize that we're talking about an infinitesimal number of
>girls here which is hardly a good basis for generalization to porn as a whole. Nor,
>when it comes down to it, are these girls suffering any significant damage physically
>and mentally the word(s) porn-whore should tell you something.
>
>Memo to self: Can a raincoater be at the same time a slavering fan boy and a raincoater?
Ask the raincoaters and the slavering fan boys. And don't dismiss
what they have to say with "They're lying" if the answer is other than
what you want it to be.
>It appears so. By some mind-bending mental gymnastics, he can be in love with the girl
>and at the same time want to see her degraded and abused.
Being a fan does not necessarily equal being in love. And wanting to
see *faked depictions* of her being degraded and abused does not
necessarily equal wanting to *actually* see her degraded and abused.
Nor is it necessarily degrading or abusive to have sex different than
the sex that you (or I, for that matter) happen to enjoy. I don't
like getting whacked in the nuts. Some guys do.
>Bizarre!
I'll tell you an even weirder one: Some people act out bondage or rape
fantasies with their SO, but wouldn't want said SO to actually be
raped, tortured, etc. Imagine! Wanting to fantasize something you
wouldn't want to happen in real life! Amazing!!
It's called "pretending," and most of us managed to figure it out long
before we saw our first porn.
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
Xenophile
wrote:
>>Ridley has swung from extreme to extreme. He was very excited about some
>
>Hello again,
>
>this is it what i mean. First you were Saulus and then he went to Paulus.
I can believe a Road To Damascus conversion, but some people seem to
travel that road a wee bit much.
>Why can?t we stop this term? In a land where a 12 or 13 years old boy or girls
>can get a gun or drugs what is wrong about to have sex with 18 in the
>pornbusiness?
I'll go further and say that you should be able to do soft core when
you reach the age of consent in your state, and hardcore a year later.
>I don?t understand the rights and laws of America.
Neither do many Americans. Unfortunately.
>Here in Germany every state have the same laws or rights. There are no different
>between Bavaria or Nordrhein-Westfalen in the laws.
There tends to be, in the United States, a feeling that, say,
Hawaiians know better how to set building codes (for example) for
Hawaii (where the roof never bears a load of snow) than do the people
of Nebraska, Alaska, and Washington, D.C. (where snow is an important
factor).
>Here in Germany we have no problem with our sexuality.
None? At all? Any of you?!? Well, I'm not an expert on German
sexuality and/or society, so I shouldn't say flat out that you are
wrong, but I will say that it seems an extraordinary claim. Now, if
you'd like to make that a little bit less absolutist and simply claim
that Germans are, *in general*, less stick-up-ass, prudish moral
hypocrites when it comes to sex, I'd agree.
>We can see naked people in the normal TV. In our promotionclips you can see
>naked woman or men the whole day.
In American TV there is lots of tease, but no consummation.
>Our laws are against crime in movies. They often cut movies like Terminator 2 or
>Blade Runner. They don?t wanna see to much killing or fighting. This is the
>difference between Germany and the USA.
One of the differences. You likely have lower rates of violent crime
(almost everybody does). Just how available is porn in Germany, and
how popular is it? What sorts of theme are popular? Girl/girl?
Rape? Orgies? Consensual bondage? ??
>I don?t understand why fisting or pissing isn?t allowed in USA Pornmovies. But i have
>read the previews from Cocktails 2 from Extreme. I don?t understand why it is allowed
>to drink spunk or puke and any other strange things? I think it is really dangerous to
>drink this shit. You can go ill, like Hepatithis B or others.
Yuck.
>I don?t wanna eat my own puke.
Well, buddy, consider that one thing you have in common with *this*
American. Don't want to eat anybody else's either, for that matter.
>Ridley wrote he is against Max Hardcore why he punishes and piss off girls. I understand
>this thing but if the girls wants to do this things it?s her own problem.
Exactly. We needn't protect women from making choices, from thinking
for themselves. And please notice that nobody seems worried that the
*men* can't think for themselves, that the *guys* need to be protected
from making bad choices.
>Please don?t tell me, that?s the girls have no internet. You can surfe to his Homepage and
>can see what his doing. And if the agent sent her to Max we have to accuse the agent.
>I have read bad things from glamour firms like Wicked and Vivid, too. They
Hell, we've all heard bad things in every industry. Didn't Wal*Mark
get slapped recently?
>wan?t that the grils make her tits bigger. This is a bad thing, too. I wanna see normal tits.
Well, big tits are fashionable here. It seems to be fading.
>I wanna see the truth and no cut or Alice in the Wonderland Sex.
Not sure I understand what you mean here.
>I hope anybody is with me.
On at least some things. BTW, what is the AoC in... Never mind; I'll
look it up. :p~~
Xenophile, Proud American (though some of the stuff discussed above is
not what I'm proud of)
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
Xenophile
wrote:
>Mike Paul <mp...@sc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Now, you can claim it's not true, and they *are* mentally doing what the guys does,
>>but it's you versus them at that point.
>
>>That's the 'out'. That's how a guy can tell you with a straight face he may watch
>anal fisting and enjoy it, but it's nothing he'd want to do. He's on some higher
>moral plain than that, and since *he* knows what he thinks, he knows you're just
>blowing hot air...
>
>Sure he can say that however I can also say that he's delusional or simply lying.
You can say it, but your saying it doesn't make it so anymore than his
does. Even less so. You can *say* that he's lying, but you don't
*know*. You don't know what's in his mind and in his heart, but he
does. Therefore his word on this matter *automatically* carries more
weight than yours does.
>Since there's strong pressure to conform to some form of societal norm--anal fisting
>and the male/female relationship that it implies is not exactly approved of in most
>circles--lying is way out of an unpleasant reality.
Or maybe he doesn't want to do what he likes to watch.
>This type of reaction occurs all over porn, not just with the raincoater. The touchie-
>feelie lies to himself
You *assume* that he's lying. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. But at
least he *really knows* whether or not he's lying, and you *don't*.
Therefore his word on this matter carries more weight than yours does.
>that he's watching porn to improve his sex life with his SO instead of admitting that he's
>mentally substituting the cute young chickie on the porn movie for his ageing and less
>attractive bed companion;
Is that what you do? Yes? Then speak for yourself and don't assume
that everybody is just like you. No? Then if it isn't true for you,
why assume that it's true for everybody else?
>the guy watching the barely legal movies tries to tell himself that he really doesn't want
>to screw the 18 (or 15) year old but he keeps renting and whacking off to just that age
>group and that scenario;
People fantasize day in and day out about stuff they'd run like Hell
from if they ever got the chance to do it in real life. OTOH,
sometimes what you watch *is* what you'd like to do. Do you think all
those folks who watched Titanic (sometimes over and over again) really
want to be on a sinking ship? I'm going to go out on a limb here and
guess "probably not." But if I watch a travel video on Hawaii, damned
straight I want to be there!
>and the "I can't believe they're prostitutes" guy tries to tell himself that the girls are
>doing it because they're exhibitionists or they just love sex (yeah, with Ed Powers!).
I'm sure that a good many of these women (and men! Why do we always
assume that guys are immune from all this horror that we want to
protect women from whether they want it or not?) are exhibitionists,
and most people like sex (why do you think prostitutes make so much
money... and what do you have against *them*?). The money doesn't
hurt. Indeed, the money is probably the biggest reason for many.
>Just like the early days of porn when we had those white coaters with the pseudo doctor showing
>you the sexual deviancy of the younger generation, you have to look beyond what they say to see
>what their real motivation is.
Sometimes, a person's motivation is exactly what they say that it is.
And sometimes people lie. If you are going to call somebody a liar,
you should have more to back it up with than "but I know what he
*really* means!"
>Nor is the proof a "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level that you imply is necessary. Most things
>in life can never meet that standard especially when we're talking about human reaction, even
>less when it's human reaction at a group level.
When you think that a thing is true, but you don't really know for
sure, you can fake it and proclaim what you can't prove as The One And
Only Truth, or you could admit that you aren't sure.
>There may indeed be tiny numbers
Or huge numbers. How would I know? How would you?
>of raincoaters who are just watching for the "train wreck" experience but common sense (or
>Ockham's razor if you prefer) tells us that the most likely scenario is that most raincoaters
>want to do just what they watch.
Ockham's Razor! I'll get to it next post.
>The honest ones admit it and let the chips fall where they may.
"Honest" does not necessarily equal "agrees with me." Honest people
will tell the truth, even if you or I are not inclined to believe it.
--
Xenophile:
1 (n), One who is attracted to that which is unusual, foriegn, exotic or strange.
2 (n), An excellent comic magazine written & penciled by Phil Foglio.
dirty-dan
Dirty-Dan, and by our newest model, also my newest girlfriend
Xiola... she is just turning 19 and looks younger at times but is a
much older soul. She has been on her own 3 years, left home at
16, and got her GED so she could get into university (and did) has
quite a few hours towards her pilots license... she by no means is
dumb or flacky.
===================
First DD:
I think my perspective here is tainted as when i watch adult
materials, i think in terms of production quality, i do not like
to see models treated as Max does, and i like the erotic elements.
I see this more as someone else inviting you to look into their
window and share the erotic expereince with them.. this reality
is backed by the amount of females of all ages from young to old
who use cuseeme software along with men too and nightly play
as singles and couples on the net solely for fun. I have never
imagined myself as part of the expereince, simply an observer.
I know this is not always or normally the case.. i understand
casting calls... I guess this idea works best with amatuer stuff
such as HomeGrown Video as verses a Max Hardcore release.
Most of our models are indeed poly, they have had many sexual
expereinces before coming to us, and we carefully make sure
they are ready before we would allow them to be in a production.
Xi is the 18yo Americas most renewable resource some say needs
protecting in this thread. She has read this whole thread, let
her speak now.
Dirty-Dan
This is Xi:
I cannot speak for other models, only myself, my eyes are wide
open, Rob and Dan have bent over backwards to look out for
me and see I am aware. As far as gangbangs and the like being
degrading, I have been in gangbangs created by myself at our old
commune in Canada. I choose whom and with what I do with my
body, and am aware that results come with each decision I make.
One day will work in the medical field, but will not regreat my
time in the adult industry, nor what it has taught me. Dan has
spent alot of hours teaching me website tricks, business tatics,
things I feel will give me a lifetime of security. I enjoyed what
I did and though had no idea who Rob and Dan were when we
met, told them at dinner my life long fantasy was to do some adult
video work. They both laughed and said this was possible but
before either allowed me to do so, they gave me cold hard facts
and made me wait a month. I have for years been an exibitionist
and enjoyed flashing and playing with people. I once in IL.
caused a trash truck to wreck when i ran garbage to the street
in a towel flapping in the wind. I enjoy my body, I will not be
beautiful forever, and plan to enjoy it while I can. Though I
have never either neglected my mind. Also before anyone
asks, Have never been molested, am just a very sexual person.
Have never seen Ed Powers, so cannot comment. Sex with
any stranger would be an ugly thing to me. Yet know it is all
to common in adult videos. I ignore this and choose as Dan
also said to see this as people allowing me to watch them
and look for the erotic elements and they become parts of
my own fantasies. Anyone who does not think mainstream
porn is an illusion also must watch and believe in Wrestling
and think they are the belt winner as they look into the
idiot box. I shall add that HornyRob is not mainstream
porn and what is done here is very real. Rob gets alot of
cards from his models all over the world and totally get the
feeling here of family and care towards all of them past and
present. Talked to 2 models who did work a few years ago
and the same as I feel they also speak of being treated with
care and respect. If this ever changes would quit the same
day as my feelings were ignored.
Have always dated older men, from 25 to 43 is the spread. Only
because I think older men are more interesting, mature, and
stable. I am dating Dan now and love him very much. He has
been kind to me and thoughtful and hope to be a part of his life
for as long as we live. You insult me if you think using my body
if i wished to be shallow could not find the ultimate sugar daddy.
I work hard here and expect no one to "give" me anything but
a chance. Dan has taught me to do things I never considered
doing before. Last night was learning digital video editing,
night before investing income in items that would retail up
to twice what I paid on Ebay. Skills he says will protect me
and keep my options open for a lifetime. We are both poly
and tend to like the same girls and find the same things
erotic. I need no one to protect me and look out for me so
don't apply these ideas globally to all 18yo females, where
was protection when my dad died and mom remarried some
asshole who wanted me out of the house and had me put in
some program for drug abuse when I have never even
smoked a joint in my life then. Then I needed protecting.
Before I found work at a fast food place at 16, where was
this protection? So now am already a mighty mature soul and
also know some 21yo females if not older who might just
as well be inmature teens, desperate and needy enough to
act on impulse and not ponder the impact and need such
concerns and protection as some would wish to give.
It is our society that plays labeling and Psyc games and
pushes models into the abuse role stigma... tells them
what they should feel and takes away their own
accountability for bad choices. This is horse shit! I
hate all the day time womens shows that preach this
crap. Look what the evil men did to the poor innocent
porn model. Again I say 100% Horse Shit!
>Well, OK, but you do realize that we're talking about an infinitesimal
>number of girls here which is hardly a good basis for generalization
>to porn as a whole. Nor, when it comes down to it, are these girls
>suffering any significant damage physically and mentally the word(s)
>porn-whore should tell you something.
Xiola:
I suffered a nice apartment, good food from the Health Food Store,
and good friends seeing I complete the next 2 years of my studies
and get my degree and have had nothing but fun in getting to this
point. Guess am lucky this Max HardCore and I never met up as if
he treated me this way, his nuts would be on my keychain now. No
one will ever treat me with abuse and neglect under any condition
without one hell of a fight.
>Memo to self: Can a raincoater be at the same time a slavering fan boy
>and a raincoater? It appears so. By some mind-bending mental
>gymnastics, he can be in love with the girl and at the same time want
>to see her degraded and abused. Bizarre!
Xiola:
I have read this along with Dan nightly, only posted after seeing
tonight a MaxHardcore clip while I was on the web. One can only
thank the gods he is the exception and not the norm. About the
most degrading thing ever allowed done to me was a boyfriend
use to like to cum on my chest and face. Of course this is silly
and nothing more then a male domination fantasy. But I slimmed
his face equally in return and had him picking pubs out of his
teeth. Equal is not always the same. But I also think my sexuality
and most models who have lasted in the industry are based on a
strong personality, self awareness, and maybe a more male
oriented perspective towards sex, something more rare in most
females, and helps to be poly and have primary people in your
life who also are primary and love them enough to never take
chances in your decisions that could bring them or you harm.
The only thing I ever looked at a porn film and thought is.
Would be a neat fantasy to do this under the right circumstances
sometime.
Xiola Blue
*************************************************************************
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Frank Simmons
>Of course you realize that the other problem with the so-called
>voyeuristic viewer is a question of frequency. Compare with watching a
>car wreck or a chase followed by a wreck. Great the first time; really
>exciting. The second...OK. When you get to the nth you start to get
>pretty tired of car wrecks and car chases. So applying the same logic
>to the viewing of porn movies, the first time, "Wow, they're doing it
>for real", the second, "Is he really putting it up her asshole?" to
>the nth, "Sheesh, this is boring". We don't have that reaction from
>the raincoater; he continues to watch, hence there's something wrong
>with the classification.
No Pat, the problem is with *your* definition of voyeurism, and is the problem
with a non-voyeur trying to understand the concept. To the pure voyeur, it
doesn't become boring time after time. Or, if it does, he wants (in this
example) *more* extreme action to feed his voyeurism. But it does not mean
that he necessarily wants to participate in the action himself.
Frank
** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nikki, Kristara, Ali; Those Were The Days **
Mike Paul
> >From: Mike Paul mp...@sc.rr.com
> (Personally,
> I think talking about a level of maturity when discussing watching porno
> is a little silly - I've always thought that the terms "adult" and "mature"
> were particularly misnomers when discussing the subject for the most part.)
Now, come on. Just because a childish fart-joke quality pervades a chunk
of the product, doesn't mean there aren't a good number of adult-level
productions.
Sure, some like "No Motive" (we'll cover that later) suck, but not all...
> >Me, I think kids are voyeurs (cut to 4-year-old staring at the TV), and
> >people "should" grow out of it as they get older, but some don't.
> >
>
> Why "should" they? What exactly is "wrong" with voyeurism?
The world is being ruined by voyeurism.
Look at the Third World people, and do nothing. Look at the murder
victim's family crying, and feel nothing but desire for the next story to
come on. They aren't you or yours, so they don't count. Just something
to watch.
Pat used a car-wreck analogy in another post, and I agree. That's why
people like Michael Ninn and Andrew Blake need new and novel things to
look at in their films, because voyeurs get tired of looking at the same
stuff all the time. They don't want to 'be there', they just look.
They don't have any "gee, I'd like to be doing that" to drag them to good
(as opposed to bad) examples of conduct. On the other hand, screwing a
woman and then beating her to death might be good for a nice detached
watch.
On those TV commercials for DirecTV(?), Martin Scorsese talked about
movies, and used the line "You become those people", in describing the way
you feel what they feel.
Voyeurs don't do that. And without feeling, all kinds of crap can be done
in front of a person and just be ignored...
> >MY best example: there are guys who wince in sympathetic pain when they
> >see another guy get hit in the balls, and there are guys who just laugh.
> >The middle ground there is pretty-much nonexistent...
>
> Untrue - there are guys who do both
Fine, Frank, but someday I expect some sort of validation...
> >There's just something wrong with that example. I guess it's the
> >'legitimately' part, where the voyeur can lie with a straight face about
> >how it's good to *watch* abuse but not to *do* it.
>
> Care to explain what is "wrong" with the example? I don't understand what
> you are saying here. And, why do you assume that the voyeur is lying when
> he makes that statement - my whole point is that you don't understand the
> way the voyeur's mind works, because you aren't one. You aren't qualified
> to make a judgement as to whether or not he is lying.
>
> >It'd take one *colossal* asshole to make up a story like that and stick
> >with it...
>
> And what exactly makes him an asshole - is it that he is lying or what? It
> sounds to me like you are making an assumption with nothing to base it on,
> and then concluding that the person is an asshole because of your
assumptions.
>
> >I mean, if a guy who gets a thrill out of the abuse others inflict, while
> >denying he'd want to do it himself, can't be called an 'asshole', who
> >can?...
>
> Again, explain why this is being an asshole.
Somehow, you don't understand what's wrong with, say, watching and
*enjoying* some woman being beaten (the word was 'abuse', and you didn't
say tickling.)
You're more fixated on finding fault with *me*, than realizing that a guy
who (in extreme) gets a kick out of snuff films while pulling that "Oh,
it's nothing I'd do myself, but I enjoy it." stuff.
I don't need to 'get' the voyeur thing at that point. I don't care that
he's just watching. In fact, it doesn't matter if he's lying, and it
could be worse if he isn't.
What makes him an asshole is that he's watch one woman die, then go get
that next tape. Or her get beaten. Or whatever abuse is best available
that day. Carry on unaffected, because he was just watching, not 'doing'.
I threw out my copy of "No Motive" several years ago, when it turned out
that a big aspect was Buck Adams 'just watching' people have sex, then
shooting them. Nice, detached voyeurism, during which he didn't even
masturbate. I found the whole concept disgusting, and even with Brittany
O'Connell in it, it wasn't something I wanted to have around. Imagine
more *real* stuff, out there, somewhere.
Now, go ahead and downplay the abuse to ticking or something, but I *hope*
you beginning to understand why I say what I say...
> Frank (Sometime voyeir who doesn't like "abuse" vids)
Mike Paul
Good (but get that spell checker...)