[GN] Was Mr. Rogers Anti-Gay? You then are guilty, Chief.
Sam Damon
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [GN] Was Mr. Rogers Anti-Gay?
>
> This is a general truth, which does not cover specific
> issues. Sesame Street and other modern kids' shows work overtime to
> teach kids that people of color, Asians, the disabled, etc., are all
> good kids. But where are the gay kids, the gay adults?
And still you have not shown why Rogers' general message about acceptance is
not beneficial to gays. You have not proven your principle of
omission-equals-phobia. If Rogers never had an Austrialian aborigine oon
the show, does that also mean that he's anti-Australian aboriginal? As for
gay kids, why don't you show me a gay kid of the age of his usual child
guests, and I'll consider your complaint. As far as I know, the kids on his
show never really exceeded age 12 or so unless they were celebrities. I
don't know of any talent agency that has a pool of self-identified gay kids
that age. If you know of one, I promse to pass it onto to PBS and Fred
Rogers.
As for gay adults, has GLAAD or any other gay group -- or you, for that
matter -- ever written the Fred Rogers' people to suggest including gays?
Did you ever help in the effort to find gay guests? If not, perhaps I can
expand upon your principle, and label you guilty because you never helped to
change Fred Rogers' show. After all, you are the one who is suggesting that
not-doing-equals-guilt. Thus I charge you. Indeed, we may charge Rogers
with ignorance and apathy, but you have no such excuse. You willfully
failed to help change the show. And if you claim that you have tried to
contact him, etc, I'd love to see proof...
**********
If you receive GayNet via direct email:
To post, send mail to gay...@queernet.org.
To unsubscribe, send mail to majo...@queernet.org; put a line saying
unsubscribe gaynet
in the body. (This may fail if your address has changed since you signed
up; if so, or for other assistance, contact gaynet-...@queernet.org.)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Chief Thracian
wrote:
>And still you have not shown why Rogers' general message about acceptance is
>not beneficial to gays.
In this way, Rogers is like the Pope: broadcasting messages about
world peace and harmony, everyone learning to live together. This
message does *not seem to be benefitting gays very much, because the
Pope has not specifically included gays in his message of
peace...though he has for other oppressed groups. Same goes for
Rogers, in his TV church for children.
Experience in governing has shown over the years, that leaders need to
specify which groups to cease abusing, in order to have real impact.
To just say "love everyone", a general message, will not suffice. I
can't believe anyone has legitimately proven otherwise; unless the
research was a sham.
---
"Give us marriage or give us death:
Slay the beast of homophobia!"
-Zeke Krahlin, Chief Thracian
http://surf.to/gaybible
Chief Thracian
wrote:
>If Rogers never had an Austrialian aborigine oon
>the show, does that also mean that he's anti-Australian aboriginal?
Ahh, but Aussie natives are not a social issue in the USA, where Mr.
Rogers' show originates. Though I'd hope he included some Native
American puppets (or human guests), to educate children. I also hope
he did same re. people of color, disabled folks, and so on. Do you
know if he did? Seems to me, if his shows were so general as to only
have bland statements like "love your neighbor"--without any specific
examples via stories with specific types of people--they would have
been utter flops.
>As for
>gay kids, why don't you show me a gay kid of the age of his usual child
>guests, and I'll consider your complaint. As far as I know, the kids on his
>show never really exceeded age 12 or so unless they were celebrities.
He could have gay puppets...say, adults who are domestic partners. He
could have had human guests who were gay couples, possibly puppeteers
themselves, or with some other creative talent to inspire kids, while
at the same time making them feel happy and relaxed about gay people
in their presence.
Were there any same-sex puppets shown living together, like a married
couple? Any human guests? From the little I've glimpsed of his pabulum
show, there's a king and queen, and other paired characters all follow
the heterosexual role models.
> I
>don't know of any talent agency that has a pool of self-identified gay kids
>that age. If you know of one, I promse to pass it onto to PBS and Fred
>Rogers.
Well, I was quite clear about *intelligently incorporating the gay
issue via puppets and adult guests...so I can only conclude you
intentionally muddy the issue. To bring up this point in the way you
did, is to insult me by playing my off as stupid.
>As for gay adults, has GLAAD or any other gay group -- or you, for that
>matter -- ever written the Fred Rogers' people to suggest including gays?
>Did you ever help in the effort to find gay guests? If not, perhaps I can
>expand upon your principle, and label you guilty because you never helped to
>change Fred Rogers' show. After all, you are the one who is suggesting that
>not-doing-equals-guilt. Thus I charge you. Indeed, we may charge Rogers
>with ignorance and apathy, but you have no such excuse. You willfully
>failed to help change the show. And if you claim that you have tried to
>contact him, etc, I'd love to see proof...
I never focused on Mr. Rogers' show per se; but I did address the
issue of the need to educate children via their mainstream media kids
shows, by incorporating gays in a gentle and affirmative manner. I
created a website that parodied the Sunday Comics, as a criticism for
never including gay issues, even though they include race, women's
rights, etc. My essay on why it is vital to include gays in popular
children's entertainment (using the Sunday Comics as an example), can
be found at my site:
Charles Schulz's Attorneys Are After My Ass!
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/schulz.htm
The particular essay is:
My Peenut Agenda
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/agenda.htm
(The complete essay is below.)
I also addressed this issue by criticising computer game companies,
for failing to include character options, especially gay ones.
Computer Games: Racist & Homophobic
http://netjunk.com/users/gaybible/write/epic.htm
(The complete essay is below.)
So in posting these articles via BBS, newsgroups, and my own website,
I feel I've done my bit by setting an example. Other gay folks can
take my idea of challenging children's entertainment re. lack of gay
awareness, and target additional groups, such as Mr. Rogers show. To
accuse me as complicit along with these shows, is to claim that
because I haven't covered every show in my rants, that I am a
hypocrite. Well, news flash: I am but one person, and cannot
miraculously take the whole world onto my shoulders. I can only extend
myself on a limited number of aspects, and hope to inspire our
community to pick up the threads I began, and move further on these
issues.
If others in our Community--whether as individuals, or representing
groups such as GLADD--do not get the idea from my own writings, then
it is they who have failed in following through; not myself.
Now, here are the two relevant essays I cited above:
=====Begin first essay:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
writing free of charge (including translation into any
language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom,
and that it remain intact and complete, including title and
credit to the original author.
Ezekiel J. Krahlin
ezek...@iname.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
MY PEE NUT AGENDA
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite/agenda.htm
(c) 1998 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's queer witness)
My "Pee Nuts" parody is just one among three Sunday comic strips that
I have parodied. I intend to add more, in due time. My home page at:
http://members.tripod.com/~ezekielk/
will give you the links to my parody on "Beetle Bailey" and "Cathy",
as well as on the "Peanuts" one.
I am criticizing the lack of visibility of gay characters in our
mainstream Sunday Comics...and daily comics at large. To me (and
probably most everyone else), Schulz's Peanuts series represents the
quintessential Sunday Comic in contemporary Amerika. (White bread,
Protestant, dull, presumably inoffensive to anyone...geared towards
making profits from pap sentimentality, rather than making statements
that might offend "mainstream" sensibilities.)
In my opinion as a political artist, no other single comic strip could
make that claim, so readily. Thus, obviously, his strip would clearly
be a choice target for my parody.
But, it is not Mr. Schulz's comic strip itself I am singling out for
criticism...it is the Sunday Comics at large that I parody. So I try
to imagine one or another popular Sunday Comic character as a gay
revolutionary ...and I thus come up with results that are not only
criticisms, but hilarious invocations (by virtue of society's
inability to take gay people seriously).
Imagine that! Charlie brown is a Queer Nation activist, who is one
angry faggot for not having any gay characters in his world! And Lucy
the lesbian couldn't agree with him more! They are comrades under the
skin, for the sake of their common cause! (I believe in using humor to
make a point...thus, parody is my favorite vehicle.)
I am keeping on a web site, all concerned parties up to date on my
"Pee Nuts" issue, at:
http://www.2xtreme.net/jwd/k6/copyrite.htm
There, you will find the image in question, the letter from Schulz's
legal counsel, and other informative and relevant material. This
includes my short essay, "My Pee Nuts Agenda"...in which is implied
that I created my Peanuts parody exactly with the hope that I would
draw public attention to my work as a result of legal
ramifications...and do this without violating any law that I know of.
Should the pot continue to get stirred, I hope to be interviewd by
some media interest, or have my say in court (if it comes to that).
Using my Peanuts parody is an attempt to gain a voice with a large
audience of Amerikans. And once I have that voice (if I have that
voice), I will say the following:
---begin quote:
"I will gladly remove my Pee Nuts parody, if Mr. Schulz will
promise in writing, that he will add a gay character in
his regular Peanuts comic strip. But if I can't even have
that, I want to address all our major newspapers...especially
those in urban areas with a major homosexual population:
"Please, for God, for any god's, sake, start including one gay
comic strip in your daily and Sunday comics. Don't you see
what is going to happen to us gay people, if more of you
heteros in power continue to not make an outspoken and
incontrovertible stand for gay freedom? Like it or not, we are
dependent on heterosexuals for our liberty, our food, our
homes, our survival. We gay people cannot possibly win our
rights on our own.
"Mainstream comics inevitably play an important role in
educating young people about the real world...often portraying
a minority in some situation that enlightens the readers as to
this character's humanity and normalcy. Both daily and Sunday
comics cover, on a regular basis, issues regarding the rights
of women, children, people of color, the elderly, the
physically and/or mentally challenged, the poor, and various
alternative lifestyles. But the coverage of gay people is
glaringly absent.
"This is wrong, and we must not continue to allow this-and-that
excuse of our mainstream comic strip authors, to persist
in keeping a blind eye to the gay issue. To imply that this
would be "dirty" or "obscene" to children, is a slap in our
face. We are neither immoral nor inappropriate with or without
children in our presence. Even here in our lovely gay mecca of
San Francisco...there is not one single gay comic in either of
our two major newspapers.
"Newspapers of Amerika: where is your honor, your dignity,
your sense of Amerikan values of decency and fair play? Are
you really so afraid of Christian fanatics as to toe their
party line, at the cost of gay people's annihilation? Until
you do the right thing, the heartfelt and respectful
thing...which is including a gay-relevant comic strip...our
blood, gay blood, will continue to be spilled across your
pages, across your headlines, across every newspaper in this
troubled, homophobic nation.
"For as we raise our children, so bends the tree. And if gays
remain invisible to them in our daily comic strips, as well as
in other media so influential to young minds...then
we cannot expect anything better than future generations
fearing and villifying gays.
"May Charlie Brown, our little friend to all hetero-centered
children, suddenly acquire a new neighbor...a neighbor who is
(dare we say it) also gay...and proud of it!
"We're here! We're queer! Good grief!"
---end of quote
That is the essence of the point I want to make; however, I am
still reworking it to make it the best speech possible. So now
we have a more important issue about parody in art: for I am
using a larger canvas than most artists use...as my canvas is
life itself, and my imagination, the brush. So, while the
Peanuts parody may be the focal point of my work, it is but a
small piece of the canvas. The real work of art is the social
reactions to my parody, including the possibility of my
appearance and behavior in court. In effect, I have "painted"
myself into court (possibly)...or at least as an artist, I am
trying my best to! But I will at least try to "paint" myself
into media recognition one way or another, in order to present
"My Pee Nut Agenda" to our citizens.
So if the courts must evaluate my work of art, as parody or
other...jurors must also consider the essential and entire
work, and not just one part of it. And the essential work is
this real-life, animated diorama that I am creating around a
particular criticism of mine...with possibly lawyers, judges,
jurors, and news media being included in this, my greatest
work to date.
In effect, your interest in this matter, puts you on my
canvas, too. For I will have good guys and bad guys in this
diorama...as I am portraying (in my opinion) the classical
struggles between good and evil...in this case, between
corporate self interest and personal liberty...as it deals
with gay artistic activism.
If you have any doubts as to my artistic philosophy of using
life as my canvas...there is a precedent in this matter that I
have already set, with my adventure of "The Somalian Affair",
which you may view at:
http://www2.fortunecity.com/village/weaver/76/
To date, I consider that my most significant work of art. I
intentionally created controversy (in this case, addressing
our Marines in Somalia as a gay activist), in order to use
life as my canvas...to put together as many of the reactions
as I could, in order to preserve the event. The most
significant aspect of my artwork (using life as canvas) is the
actual string of events that ensue, by the brush of my
imagination. And one can only capture small pieces of that
result, here and there, as a permanent record. So that web
site is the final result...with hopefully, more things to add
should anyone who was there, add to my accounting of the
event...or anyone who knows someone who was there.
While my form of artistry may presently not be recognized as a
legitimate medium, I believe some day it will. Life as canvas.
As Shakespeare said, "All the world's a stage..." blah blah
blah.
--- finis
=====Begin second essay:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
writing free of charge (including translation into any
language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom,
and that it remain intact and complete, including title and
credit to the original author.
Ezekiel J. Krahlin
ezek...@my-deja.com http://surf.to/gaybible
--------------------------------------------------------------
COMPUTER GAMES: RACIST & HOMOPHOBIC
http://netjunk.com/users/gaybible/write/epic.htm
(c) 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
August 12, 1994
Dear Editor,
Like many in our community these days, I am an active participant of
several computerized bulletin board services (BBS's)...most of which
are linked as a global electronic network. A BBS then, provides an
excellent forum for challenging sterotyped views that many folks still
have, including the lesbian/gay issue (of course). And: what you
have to say is often disseminated to hundreds (perhaps thousands) of
BBS's across the country and around the world!
I would like to share an irate response I posted on a local BBS,
regarding the issue of software games' lack of queer-awareness; and of
social responsibility in general. Readers are encouraged to
disseminate duplicates of this message to bulletin board services (or
any other services/organizations/people) of their choice. I also hope
that my computerized message will inspire other
gays/lesbians/trans-genders/queers (etc.) to use the global electronic
network as a tool of empowerment for every individual to make a stand
for civil (or any other) rights that s/he deems fit. And you don't
even need the approval, funds, or cooperation of any organization to
do this!
Sincerely,
Ezekiel Krahlin
(Now here's the BBS message...)
==============================================================
BBS: Golden Gate Computer Society
Date: 08-11-94 (19:35) Number: 116
From: EZEKIEL KRAHLIN Refer#: NONE
To: DANNY Recvd: NO
Subj: EPIC, loosen up! Conf: (116) Shareware
--------------------------------------------------------------
DT> Our hero Jazz is on a mission to save bunny babe Eva
DT> Earlong, and he'll go up against a cast of thousands
DT> of enemies in order to save his girl.
DT>
DT> * Gorgeous PRO cartoon animation!
DT> * Jazz's BONUS STAGE features ultra high-tech 3D
DT> graphics!
DT> * Find ultra-cool weapons, such as the Bouncy Bullets
DT> * 60 frames-per-second scrolling. Whoa boy, this is
DT> FAST!
DT> * A truly rocking soundtrack!
Is his girl really worth saving? what about his guy?
......................................................
Danny,Danny, in addressing you, I also address the company you
represent (www.epicgames.com/), and, by logical extension, all
computer game companies. So please do not take any of this as a
direct attack upon yourself (which it certainly is not). This is
something I've been meaning to say for some time now...I was only
waiting for the right time to say it...and reading your message
provides me with that opportunity.
......................................................
Danny, I'm sure the special effects are as sensational as you claim
(for I have played Epic games before). But I am soooo tired at the
assumed heterosexual role-playing foisted upon the world, by these
computer games. C'mon and wake up to the 21st century! Why not give
us some CHARACTER OPTIONS such as GAY OR LESBIAN PLAYERS?
WHY STOP THERE? Can't Epic give us *other character options to choose
from in, say, a menu of chocies?
a gay male, I am NOT INTERESTED in chasing after a blonde bimbo
heroine. And if you do (finally) respect your gay audience, don't
limit us to blond-haired, blue eyed same-sex amours. Respect people
of color: Give us black people, brown people, red, yellow, etc., as
well as white and pink! Give us green eyes, black eyes, brown eyes,
amber eyes, hazel eyes, etc.! GIVE US A GAY MENU OF CHARACTER
OPTIONS!!!
as a culturally aware citizen of planet earth, I also demand: PUT IN
YOUR GAMES: CHARACTER OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR, FOR DIFFERENT
ETHNIC GROUPS, FOR BI-, HOMO-, AS WELL AS HETERO-, SEXUAL PREFERENCES,
AND FOR DIFFERENT RELIGIONS AND WORLD VIEWS...WHEN APPROPRIATE. STOP
LIMITING YOUR GAMES TO A WHITE HETEROSEXUAL (MALE-DOMINANT) WORLD!
CEASE USING COMPUTER GAMES AS A VEHICLE FOR PERPETUATING SOME VERY
NARROW-MINDED, UGLY, HATEFUL, AND VIOLENT PERCEPTIONS ON LIFE...EVEN
IF INADVERTANT AND/OR SUBLIMINAL.
if you rebel against my request, which is only benevolent and sane,
then I ask you: WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? (And if you say, "Lighten
up, it's only a game," I still ask: "Who do you think you are?")
'll even bet that the first computer game companies (and/or shareware
authors!) that do catch on to the concept I state herein, will really
cash in by providing a MULTICULTURAL or MULTIETHNIC menu of choices.
Why don't you, EPIC, be the first? I will now quote that part of your
message, Danny, that includes the addresses of EPIC game software.
For I suggest that all concerned parties send them a copy of my
response (or a personalized equivalent) through one or more of the
e-mail addresses listed below. I FURTHER SUGGEST THAT ALL
CONCERNED/INSPIRED PARTIES SEND A COPY OF MY RESPONSE (OR YOUR OWN
PERSONALIZED EQUIVALENT) TO OTHER COMPUTER GAME COMPANIES AS WELL! My
message I consider public domain, for anyone to copy and distribute
anywhere else, to anyone else. If you are too busy to compose your own
thoughts on this matter, please by all means feel free to copy this
message verbatim
and send it off to the computer game outfits of your choice...and to
any other bulletin board services.
DT> For complete up-to-date info on Epic, we invite everyone
DT> out there to subscribe to our Meganews on-line newsletter,
DT> here's how:
DT>
DT> Send Email to Epic at: 70007...@compuserve.com
DT> To subscribe, say: "Add me to your list!"
DT> To unsubscribe, say: "Remove me from your list!"
DT>
DT> CompuServe: GO EPIC Orders: 800-972-7434
DT> Internet FTP: ftp.uml.edu Tech support: 301-983-9771
DT> Exec-PC BBS: 414-789-4360 Fax: 301-299-3841
DT>
DT> Also - don't forget to visit us on CompuServe - GO EPIC.
DT> You'll be able to download Jazz totally FREE on
DT> CompuServe for the month of August. GO EPIC for details
DT> about the Game of the Month.
DT>
DT> Try the PC Clubhouse BBS of Oakland (510) 530-5592
DT> official dist BBS.
you, Danny, for the inspiration! I'm sure that it is otherwise a very
cute and exciting game...albeit unabashedly hetero (hmmm...does the
*rabbit theme hold further nuances?). But in this very troubled,
strife-ridden and shrinking world of immense population...I believe it
is definitely time for EPIC (and all other game manufacturers) to
incorporate social ethics with whatever products they present to the
world...especially to impressionable youth. And isn't that for whom
these games are geared? If EPIC doesn't want to eventually be
regarded in a similar light as Joe Camel...then please consider my
appeal for sanity and conscientious responsibility. Your very hot,
appealing games could also become a visionary tool for opening
children's minds to the wonderful mix of people this world truly is.
Think how proud you'd become of your craft, and the example you'd set!
---
SLMR 2.1a - Golden Gate Computer Soc.: San Rafael, CA
HOW ABOUT IT, EPIC?
http://netjunk.com/users/gaybible/write/epic.gif
(Click on link above to view image.)
---finis
---
"Give us marriage or give us death:
Slay the beast of homophobia!"
-Zeke Krahlin, Chief Thracian
http://surf.to/gaybible
**********
Eric Payne
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 02:43:26 -0400, "Sam Damon" <sdc...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >If Rogers never had an Austrialian aborigine oon
> >the show, does that also mean that he's anti-Australian aboriginal?
>
> Ahh, but Aussie natives are not a social issue in the USA, where Mr.
> Rogers' show originates. Though I'd hope he included some Native
> American puppets (or human guests), to educate children. I also hope
> he did same re. people of color, disabled folks, and so on. Do you
> know if he did? Seems to me, if his shows were so general as to only
> have bland statements like "love your neighbor"--without any specific
> examples via stories with specific types of people--they would have
> been utter flops.
Only if you choose to see it that way - in an exlusionary rather than inclusive
way. The man made a life-long commitment to "won't you be my neighbor" without
ever once making note that anyone SHOULDN'T (or couldn't) be a neighbor.
For you, inclusion may mean you have to be singled out at first, and special
notice should be taken by everyone that you're being included. I don't have to
(nor do I wish to) think that way... there are instances where the failure of
others to comment on my sexual orientation is simply because it doesn't matter.
Nor do I feel the need for attention as some sort of momentary, special focus.
>
>
> >As for
> >gay kids, why don't you show me a gay kid of the age of his usual child
> >guests, and I'll consider your complaint. As far as I know, the kids on his
> >show never really exceeded age 12 or so unless they were celebrities.
>
> He could have gay puppets...say, adults who are domestic partners. He
> could have had human guests who were gay couples, possibly puppeteers
> themselves, or with some other creative talent to inspire kids, while
> at the same time making them feel happy and relaxed about gay people
> in their presence.
How do you know he DIDN'T? Your gaydar not go ping-ping-ping? And, if he did,
then found it necessary to point out to the "boys and girls" that Mr. Kroger (the
East Coasters will get it...) is the grocer, and he's gay, and it doesn't matter
to me... I bet you'd be yelling the same thing from the opposite side: Why did
the "friendly" Mr. Rogers feel it necessary to tell all the kiddies Mr. Kroger
was gay.
>
>
> Were there any same-sex puppets shown living together, like a married
> couple? Any human guests? From the little I've glimpsed of his pabulum
> show, there's a king and queen, and other paired characters all follow
> the heterosexual role models.
And very rarely did children over the age of six watch his show. I grew up
outside Pittsburgh, PA, where Fred Rogers is exactly what he always appeared to
be on TV: just a nice guy. He never, ever made a conscious attempt to alienate
anyone. Even when - in real life - a child from down the street made certain
accusations about him in the mid-80s, he didn't yell. He didn't do anything. He
simply let the legal process handle it, and it was very quickly determined the
kid's mom was nuts and looking for a fast buck.
Ah... but this whole "issue" on your part is to draw attention to your "Peanuts"
gay essay, isn't it? Just another way to promote and publicize your essay on
Charles Schulz and his lack of inclusion.
I guess, to make you happy, everyone must go around, 24/6, with one of those blue
and white stickers that say "Hello, my name is.... and I'm ......"
In my case, it'd read: "Hello, my name is Eric, and I'm 42," because though I am
gay, BEING gay is not the totality of my existence.
Eric Payne
Livermore, CA