And so the folklore starts
Chris Clarke
hitting my inbox.
> This is taken from the abc newsgroup bulletin board, note the date of
> the second message, and the reference to 7 days...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [snip]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 2:15 PM
> > To: [snip]
> > Subject: a note
> >
[I've de-quoted the Google URL for your convenience - Chris]
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right&th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&see
km=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanset.com#link1
> >
> > this message was written on 8-31
> > Something is going to happen tomorrow. This is a witness against
> > everyone on this newsgroup. I hate this newsgroup, and everyone on it
> > sucks. REPENT! You are all evil liars! Do not be so evil, and be holy.
> > You are going to get me killed because of the truth of my mouth. I am
> > not telling you what is going to happen until it does, because an EVIL
> > and adulterous generation seeks for a sign.
> >
> > and then second message
> > Message 7 in thread
> > From: Xinoehpoel </groups?hl=en&q=author:tesnal%40psl.moc+>
> > (tes...@psl.moc <mailto:tesnal%40psl.moc>) Subject: Re: 911
> > Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
> > </groups?hl=en&group=alt.prophecies.nostradamus>
> > View this article only
> > </groups?hl=en&selm=3b952e20%40monitor.lanset.com>
> > Date: 2001-09-04 12:40:28 PST
> > Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going
> > away
> > in seven days, and you will not hear from me again.
> >
> > X
> >
> >
--
Chris Clarke | Editor, Faultline Magazine
www.faultline.org | California Environmental News and Information
Lara Hopkins
> It only took six hours for the September 11 2001 paniclore to start
> hitting my inbox.
A couple hours ago this was posted on another mailing list:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great
leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big
city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
Lara
Opus the Penguin
> A couple hours ago this was posted on another mailing list:
>
> "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
> brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great
> leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big
> city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
Interesting. A quick Google turns up only this page with that prophecy:
http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
It appears to be made up, not by Nostradamus, but by someone pointing
out how *anyone* can make a vague enough prophecy that people will find
some correspondence with real world events.
--
Opus the Penguin
Fang Face
(alt.horror.werewolves)
> --
> Opus the Penguin
Bob Beck
> It only took six hours for the September 11 2001 paniclore to start
> hitting my inbox.
From a folklore point of view, I was intrigued by the rumours that made it
into the media -- several other plane crashes, car bomb at the State
Department, and so forth.
Most bizarre rumour -- a Korean plane landing in Whitehorse, Yukon, was
forced to do so because of a bomb on board. In fact it was merely low on
fuel.
Bob "running on empty" Beck
Deborah Stevenson
Not that bizarre, actually--it emitted a transponder signal that means
either a hijacking or a low-fuel emergency. Understandably, today they
weren't taking too many chances with confusing the first for the second.
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Timothy A. McDaniel
Bob Beck <rb...@vcn.bc.ca> wrote:
>Chris Clarke <ccl...@faultline.org> wrote:
>> It only took six hours for the September 11 2001 paniclore to start
>> hitting my inbox.
>
>From a folklore point of view, I was intrigued by the rumours that
>made it into the media -- several other plane crashes, car bomb at
>the State Department, and so forth.
What I heard:
- Another plane was the cause of the south tower collapse, with the
reporter saying that he was told that there were cries of "another
plane" by eyewitnesses just before it hit.
- Another plane was later headed to the Pentagon.
- Another plane was headed for Camp David.
"Periscopitis", 21st Century style. Also,
- The Pennsylvania plane was shot down by the US Air Force.
--
Tim McDaniel is tm...@jump.net; if that fail,
tm...@us.ibm.com is my work account.
"To join the Clueless Club, send a followup to this message quoting everything
up to and including this sig!" -- Jukka....@hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)
Chuck Skinner
news:Pine.SGI.4.10.1010911...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu:
There is no transponder code specifically for a low-fuel emergency. The
emergency codes are:
7700 Emergency
7600 Lost communications, equipment failure
7500 Hijacking
Chuck Skinner
--
web.tampabay.rr.com/skinner
-Seen on alt.binaries.3d.poser:
"> I'm not too literate"
"That's ok; it's only Usenet."
Chuck Skinner
news:9nmirs$5kd$1...@news.jump.net:
> What I heard:
> - Another plane was the cause of the south tower collapse, with the
> reporter saying that he was told that there were cries of
> "another plane" by eyewitnesses just before it hit.
> - Another plane was later headed to the Pentagon.
> - Another plane was headed for Camp David.
A point that I haven't heard made very well... the 4th hijacked plane
which went down in Pennsylvania had made a sudden course deviation; its
course would have taken it over Camp David and eventually Washington.
Speculation is that its target could have been Camp David, the
Pentagon, the White House, or the Capitol.
Deborah Stevenson
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, Chuck Skinner wrote:
> Deborah Stevenson <stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> wrote in
> news:Pine.SGI.4.10.1010911...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu:
>
> >
> > On 12 Sep 2001, Bob Beck wrote:
> >
> >> Most bizarre rumour -- a Korean plane landing in Whitehorse,
> >> Yukon, was forced to do so because of a bomb on board. In fact it
> >> was merely low on fuel.
> >
> > Not that bizarre, actually--it emitted a transponder signal that
> > means either a hijacking or a low-fuel emergency. Understandably,
> > today they weren't taking too many chances with confusing the first
> > for the second.
>
> There is no transponder code specifically for a low-fuel emergency. The
> emergency codes are:
>
> 7700 Emergency
> 7600 Lost communications, equipment failure
> 7500 Hijacking
Guess I picked a bad day to give up weasel words. I got the story from
<http://www.whitehorsestar.com/>, and actually, looking back at it, I may
have slightly misread it.
However, the larger point is that it wasn't immediately clear to the
authorities which of these two conditions obtained.
Deborah Stevenson
(stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
kay w
Chuck:
>The
>> emergency codes are:
>> 7700 Emergency
>> 7600 Lost communications, equipment failure
>> 7500 Hijacking
Deborah:
>Guess I picked a bad day to give up weasel words. I got the story from
><http://www.whitehorsestar.com/>, and actually, looking back at it, I may
>have slightly misread it.
>However, the larger point is that it wasn't immediately clear to the
>authorities which of these two conditions obtained.
CNN just mentioned that in the cases of the four crashed planes, none of the
planes had sent any transponder code.
Would this piece of equipment be easily made inoperative before departure?
kay w
Address munged. AOL isn't necessarily comatose, evidence to the contrary not
withstanding.
Bob Beck
Sorry for the lengthy quote, but thanks for the clarification.
I usually try to follow up in such cases of confusion, but what with CBC
Radio, the television, and the internet browser running, I must have
overlooked it.
There must have been lots of cases of ordinary events being converted into
possible terrorist acts by a heightened state of vigilance. Parliament
Hill in Ottawa was briefly evacuated because of an unidentified van,
supposed to contain a bomb.
Illegally parked vehicles are, shall we say, not unknown there, but not
normally the cause of evacuations.
Bob "supposed former information junkie" Beck
Timothy A. McDaniel
of a World Trade Center building have called out on their cell phones.
[1] This is a story of a type we've heard before: the reports after
the wreck of the Kursk, which turned out to be false. Also, according
to one book I read (I've forgotten which), there were tapping sounds
from turtled battleships at Pearl Harbor up to late December 1941;
I don't know the veracity of that report.
Tim "internyms and sibboleths seem inappropriate" McDaniel
[1] My bogometer bongs faintly, because I would expect that 110
descending stories of concrete and steel would rubbleize any slabs or
beams at the bottom, not allowing any survival pockets to remain.
I also wonder why anyone would stay in the basement of a burning
skyscraper. On the other hand, my bogometer went off big-time when
the clock radio woke me up this morning, when the DJs said not to go
to the airport because the FAA had closed all the airports in the US
-- I thought it was a stupid DJ prank. My bogometer broke when Russia
declared independence from the USSR in August 1991, and it's never
worked quite right since.
Chuck Skinner
news:20010912000659...@mb-cb.aol.com:
> CNN just mentioned that in the cases of the four crashed planes,
> none of the planes had sent any transponder code.
>
> Would this piece of equipment be easily made inoperative before
> departure?
I thought I heard earlier that transponder code 7500 had been sent by
at least one of the aircraft; that could of course have been an
inaccurate report.
The transponder receives raw radar transmissions from ATC (air traffic
control) and re-transmits them, together with an identifying code and
(usually) altitude information. The purpose is to make the plane more
highly visible on ATC radar, as well as identifying the aircraft.
The transponder code is set by a group of dials on the panel. Normally
under instrument flight rules, a transponder code is assigned to the
flight by ATC. The pilot sets that code on the transponder before
takeoff.
In the case of an emergency, the pilot dials in the appropriate code.
If the pilots were disabled before they could change the it, the
transponder would continue showing the flights normal assigned code.
Karen J. Cravens
> - Another plane was the cause of the south tower collapse, with the
> reporter saying that he was told that there were cries of "another
> plane" by eyewitnesses just before it hit.
A lot of eyewitnesses, or rather, *ear*witnesses, thought there *was*
another plane. Evidently there was a rumbling buildup and then a boom, and
the rumble sounded (to people understandably sensitized to the phenomenon)
like a low-flying plane.
Considering that there was enough dust that people on the ground weren't
immediately aware the first tower had fallen, they wouldn't have expected
to have seen a plane.
In other, more cogent news, my husband has already reported the Nostrodamus
"two brothers"/"big city burning" bit has hit a lo cal tech mailinglist he
subscribes to. I didn't ask if they've heard from Xinoehpoel.
--
Karen J. Cravens
D.E. Franks
> There are now reports on CNN that some people trapped in the basement
> of a World Trade Center building have called out on their cell phones.
> [1] This is a story of a type we've heard before: the reports after
> the wreck of the Kursk, which turned out to be false.
There were a number of cell phone calls from folks trapped in the 921 quake
in Taiwan (and I believe this year's El Salvador quake that primarily
affected a wealthier neighborhood). And many amazing stories of survival. I
hope my favorite may at least lighten your spirits a bit (I don't really
have the energy to tell the tale properly, sorry):
Sun QiGuang and his brother QiFong were playing poker (in their underwear -
it was a hot night) in the kitchen late on the night of the quake. I don't
remember what floor they were on, but their apartment collapsed. Five (5!)
days later they were rescued, having survived because the refrigerator held
up the ceiling and protected them. Having survived the initial collapse,
they likely would have died from dehydration - save for the fact that they
were trapped next to the refrigerator. I seem to remember they drank beer
and mineral water, but eventually resorted to urine and what they though
was rain water (really water from the fire trucks above).
Hope!
Timothy A. McDaniel
From: LAFF <lfu...@weir.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: I see smoke across the river
Organization: spotty at best
Message-ID: <ieptpt01jl886g4ru...@4ax.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.101091...@cpcug.org> <9nl642$7v5$1...@panix1.panix.com> <rl9spt0idqndleuvk...@4ax.com> <P0qn7.288436$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com> <100022...@smof.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:39:05 GMT
'tis said that on Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:11:57 GMT, t...@smof.demon.co.uk
(Tim Illingworth) wrote:
> BTW, where do these "50,000" numbers come from? The CEO of the WTC
> was on a station relaying to Sky News, and said 10,000/tower plus
> 5,000 visitors/day. Plus, at least one of the towers stood for an
> hour after the attack, and I don't suppose the workers were casually
> sitting at their desks all that time.
I too noticed the numbers growing during the day. In the morning, just
after it happened, the news reports said 20,000 as a workday
population for the World Trade Center, a number that stuck in my mind
because it's almost exactly the population of the town I live in,
Weirton, West Virginia.
By evening it was (on another network) said to be 50,000, which would
be us, the city across the river from us (Steubenville, Ohio), and a
few of the nearby smaller towns for good measure.
--
Lois Fundis lfu...@weir.net
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/9377/handy-dandy.html
"I wanted to be a writer-performer like the Pythons. In
fact I wanted to be John Cleese and it took me some time to
realise that the job was, in fact, taken."
-- Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
Lucas Wells
"Lara Hopkins" <wa...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:1ezlrs0.b16iqbpbmqnqN%wa...@iinet.net.au...
> A couple hours ago this was posted on another mailing list:
>
> "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
> brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great
> leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big
> city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
This appeared at about lunchtime in my email in Brisbane, Australia.
Given that Nostradamus died in 1566 I think the real miracle is that he was
apparently still writing in 1654... Not only that, but he must still be
writing the odd quatrain here and there, because I know these didn't exist
before today.
For a short Encarta article regarding Nostradamus:
http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761568156
A searchable website for Nostradamus' Quatrains:
http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/search/index.htm
Heartfelt thoughts go out to those affected by this terrible tragedy.
Lucas "words fail me" Wells
Keith Willis
wrote:
>Sun QiGuang and his brother QiFong were playing poker (in their underwear -
>it was a hot night) in the kitchen late on the night of the quake. I don't
>remember what floor they were on, but their apartment collapsed. Five (5!)
>days later they were rescued, having survived because the refrigerator held
>up the ceiling and protected them. Having survived the initial collapse,
>they likely would have died from dehydration - save for the fact that they
>were trapped next to the refrigerator. I seem to remember they drank beer
>and mineral water, but eventually resorted to urine and what they though
>was rain water (really water from the fire trucks above).
Remarkably akin to part of the tale of Clavell's "Noble House", if I
remember correctly...
--
Welcome to Folklore group of singing and dancing "AFU"
Alan Barclay
Timothy A. McDaniel <tm...@jump.net> wrote:
>I too noticed the numbers growing during the day. In the morning, just
>after it happened, the news reports said 20,000 as a workday
>population for the World Trade Center, a number that stuck in my mind
>because it's almost exactly the population of the town I live in,
>Weirton, West Virginia.
>
>By evening it was (on another network) said to be 50,000, which would
>be us, the city across the river from us (Steubenville, Ohio), and a
>few of the nearby smaller towns for good measure.
I belive that it's 20,000 people who worked in the two main towers,
and 50,000 in the entire complex.
Richard VanHouten
>
> There are now reports on CNN that some people trapped in the basement
> of a World Trade Center building have called out on their cell phones.
> [1] This is a story of a type we've heard before: the reports after
> the wreck of the Kursk, which turned out to be false. Also, according
> to one book I read (I've forgotten which), there were tapping sounds
> from turtled battleships at Pearl Harbor up to late December 1941;
> I don't know the veracity of that report.
>
> Tim "internyms and sibboleths seem inappropriate" McDaniel
>
> [1] My bogometer bongs faintly, because I would expect that 110
> descending stories of concrete and steel would rubbleize any slabs or
> beams at the bottom, not allowing any survival pockets to remain.
> I also wonder why anyone would stay in the basement of a burning
> skyscraper. On the other hand, my bogometer went off big-time when
> the clock radio woke me up this morning, when the DJs said not to go
> to the airport because the FAA had closed all the airports in the US
> -- I thought it was a stupid DJ prank. My bogometer broke when Russia
> declared independence from the USSR in August 1991, and it's never
> worked quite right since.
>
rescued from the rubble who had been on one of the lower floors of one
of the towers, and weren't even aware the entire building had collapsed
until they were rescued about 4 hours later. Also, there's a whole
complex of tunnels under the World Trade Center plaza where people could
be trapped.
Jim Everman
. . .
> The transponder code is set by a group of dials on the panel. Normally
> under instrument flight rules, a transponder code is assigned to the
> flight by ATC. The pilot sets that code on the transponder before
> takeoff.
>
> In the case of an emergency, the pilot dials in the appropriate code.
> If the pilots were disabled before they could change the it, the
> transponder would continue showing the flights normal assigned code.
>
> Chuck Skinner
In addition, as common knowledge as transponder codes are, it seems
to me to be rather naive to think that anyone capable of flying the
aircraft would be unaware of them.
--
Jim Everman mailto:eve...@Anet-STL.com
http://www.Anet-STL.com/~everman/
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by
stupidity.
Scott Andrew Borton
>"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
>brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great
>leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big
>city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
This variation appears right now on the front page of the web site of the
Times of India (http://www.timesofindia.com):
"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the
future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression
that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
I guess the fact-checkers have already left for the day...
--scott
Andrew McMichael
>
> "It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the
> future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression
> that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
> Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
What is interesting about these fake prophesies is the assumptions it makes
about the USA:
1. That somehow we're "king of the world."
2. That we can/will bring down the wrath of God once we're sufficiently
pissed.
I haven't really decided how I feel about either of those assumptions,
though I can understand the basis.
--
Andrew McMichael "Rather than treat cannibalism as a bizarre
Papers of Thomas Jefferson practice . . . I'd like people to see that [it]
Princeton University can be an act of love and respect."
Beth Conklin, Vanderbilt Anthropologist
Keith Willis
<amcm...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>Scott Andrew Borton wrote:
>>
>> "It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the
>> future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression
>> that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
>> Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
>
>What is interesting about these fake prophesies is the assumptions it makes
>about the USA:
>
>1. That somehow we're "king of the world."
>
>2. That we can/will bring down the wrath of God once we're sufficiently
>pissed.
Interesting, I read the content not as you did but along the lines of
'the wrath of God descending upon those with such hubris' rather than
'provoking the king's wrath'.
Keith "I guess it's how you tell 'em" Willis
Lisa Cech
scu...@aol.comatose (kay w) wrote:
> CNN just mentioned that in the cases of the four crashed planes, none of the
> planes had sent any transponder code.
>
> Would this piece of equipment be easily made inoperative before departure?
Please bear in mind that I have absolutely no idea how transponders
actually work, but[1] a report on the Today Show this morning mentioned
that the terrorists had turned off the transponders on the hijacked
planes, so that air traffic controllers could not identify the plane's
registration or altitude. The planes appeared on radar as unidentified
blips.
Lisa "and this is Katie Couric I'm talking about" Cech
[1]Not much of a m*tt*, but it's mine.
Jim Carlton
news:20010912000659...@mb-cb.aol.com...
> Would this piece of equipment be easily made inoperative before departure?
Not before departure; FAA regs require that an airliner have a working
transponder. According to my cow orker, who worked for Northrop in flight
control system design, it is trivial to turn off the transponder (even on
commercial aircraft). I've asked him to contact any of his friends at
Boeing to confirm that the transponder can be disabled on the 757/767,either
from the flight deck or elsewhere on the aircraft. I'll update the group if
he finds a voracious source.
He's indicated that the flight deck for the 757 and 767 are identical
(though the planes have different flight characteristics). This means if
you know how to disable one or more of the system components on one, you can
do it on the other.
-=> Jim
Paul Herzberg
> It only took six hours for the September 11 2001 paniclore to start
> hitting my inbox.
The Guardian reported that the people who hijacked the planes had bolt
cutters. I'm pretty sure they meant box cutters, but I've already seen
someone repeat this as a fact on another newsgroup.
Paul "" Herzberg
Alexis Manning
@pp.htv.fi.invalid says...
> In <1ezlrs0.b16iqbpbmqnqN%wa...@iinet.net.au>, Lara Hopkins wrote:
>
> >"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two
> >brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great
> >leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big
> >city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
>
> This variation appears right now on the front page of the web site of the
> Times of India (http://www.timesofindia.com):
Just received a wonderfully detailed variation:
"In the year of the new century and nine months, from the sky will come
a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city. In the city of York there will be a
great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos while the fortress
falls the great leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when
the big city is burning.
For the full story, visit www.bigwideworld.com"
-- A.
Chris Clarke
http://www.girlieaction.com/coup/coup-cover-300.jpg
--
Chris Clarke | Editor, Faultline Magazine
www.faultline.org | California Environmental News and Information
Alexis Manning
> I wonder if this site might not change radically in the next week.
>
> http://www.girlieaction.com/coup/coup-cover-300.jpg
You're quite right. That's so disgusting.
They *really* need to do something about that guy's hair.
-- A.
Joe Littrell
wrote:
>I wonder if this site might not change radically in the next week.
>
>http://www.girlieaction.com/coup/coup-cover-300.jpg
Hip-Hop Group Yanks Album Cover Depicting WTC Blast
By Sue Zeidler
Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/fullstory.jsp?type=entertainmentnews&StoryID=215443
"Striking a macabre note, a new album cover by hip-hop band The Coup
-- whose music has a strong anti-capitalist bent -- had until recently
depicted the World Trade Center exploding, the band's label said on
Wednesday."
Chris Clarke
Louise Bremner
> The Guardian reported that the people who hijacked the planes had bolt
> cutters. I'm pretty sure they meant box cutters, but I've already seen
> someone repeat this as a fact on another newsgroup.
Even for the Guardian, that's an imaginative typo. (But I'm not sure I
know what a "box cutter" is, so maybe it's understandable.)
The Japanese TV coverage initially reported "11 flights high-jacked",
maybe because "Flight 11" got mis-interpreted in the hasty catch-up
process.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise "" Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, write to my GOL address!
Joseph Michael Bay
>This variation appears right now on the front page of the web site of the
>Times of India (http://www.timesofindia.com):
>"It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into the
>future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of oppression
>that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
>Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
>I guess the fact-checkers have already left for the day...
They seem to have expunged it by now though.
Joe "phoenices" Bay
--
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of sXXXch, Joe
.. or the right of the people peaceably to XXXemble, and to Bay
peXXXion the government for a redress of grievances." Stanford
-- from the First Amendment to the US ConsXXXution University
deacon b.
Bremner) posted something that included:
>Paul Herzberg <herz...@ris.at> wrote:
>> The Guardian reported that the people who hijacked the planes had bolt
>> cutters. I'm pretty sure they meant box cutters, but I've already seen
>> someone repeat this as a fact on another newsgroup.
>Even for the Guardian, that's an imaginative typo. (But I'm not sure I
>know what a "box cutter" is, so maybe it's understandable.)
There are a variety of styles, but most of them are simply holders for
disposable single-edge razor blades with a "fence" so that you don't
cut too deep into the carton.
deke
Geoff Burling
wrote:
>CNN is still saying 150,000 visitors per day at the WTC.
>
> From: LAFF <lfu...@weir.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
> Subject: Re: I see smoke across the river
> Organization: spotty at best
> Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:39:05 GMT
>
>'tis said that on Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:11:57 GMT, t...@smof.demon.co.uk
>(Tim Illingworth) wrote:
>
>> BTW, where do these "50,000" numbers come from? The CEO of the WTC
>> was on a station relaying to Sky News, and said 10,000/tower plus
>> 5,000 visitors/day. Plus, at least one of the towers stood for an
>> hour after the attack, and I don't suppose the workers were casually
>> sitting at their desks all that time.
>
>I too noticed the numbers growing during the day. In the morning, just
>after it happened, the news reports said 20,000 as a workday
>population for the World Trade Center, a number that stuck in my mind
>because it's almost exactly the population of the town I live in,
>Weirton, West Virginia.
>
>By evening it was (on another network) said to be 50,000, which would
>be us, the city across the river from us (Steubenville, Ohio), and a
>few of the nearby smaller towns for good measure.
>
of a convenient envelope . . .
From the countless times I have seen the video of one of the planes crashing
into one of the towers, I see that the tower is roughly wider across than
the wingspan of one of the planes. From my copy of the _Oregonian_, I see
the wingspan of the 757/767 is 159 feet, so I'll guesstimate the width
of each of the WTC towers to be 200 feet.
* 200 x 200 yields 40,000 sqf
* assume 80% of the floorspace is used for cubicles, offices, & other public
areas (the 20% is for the elevators, bathrooms, stairs & mechanical) --
* this yields 32,000 sqf.
* multiply this by 110 floors -- 3,520,000
* divide this by 100 (the average space assigned to each worker, which includes
actual cubicle, wall footprint & aisle) -- 35,200 workers per tower
By these calculations, 50,000 workers & 5,000 visitors is a believable figure
for both of these towers.
Geoff
--
deacon b.
something that included:
>50,000 workers is plausible. Let me do a bit of calculations on the back
>of a convenient envelope . . .
>From the countless times I have seen the video of one of the planes crashing
>into one of the towers, I see that the tower is roughly wider across than
>the wingspan of one of the planes. From my copy of the _Oregonian_, I see
>the wingspan of the 757/767 is 159 feet, so I'll guesstimate the width
>of each of the WTC towers to be 200 feet.
>* 200 x 200 yields 40,000 sqf
>* assume 80% of the floorspace is used for cubicles, offices, & other public
>areas (the 20% is for the elevators, bathrooms, stairs & mechanical) --
>* this yields 32,000 sqf.
>* multiply this by 110 floors -- 3,520,000
>* divide this by 100 (the average space assigned to each worker, which includes
>actual cubicle, wall footprint & aisle) -- 35,200 workers per tower
>By these calculations, 50,000 workers & 5,000 visitors is a believable figure
>for both of these towers.
Darned good estimate the size of the building. You came up with 4.4
million square feet per tower, and USA Today reports 4 million.
However, 125 feet per worker (100 SF for cubicle and aisle, and 20%
used for mechanical stuff) is *awfully* crowded.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cbecs/char99/prelim1.htm#Table%2011
says that buildings average 824 square feet per worker. Depending on
use, the numbers range from 366 for outpatient health care to 1690 for
warehousing to 2080 for religious worship to 7629 for vacant
buildings.
Office buildings average 415 square feet per employee.
Divide 4 million square feet by 366 and you get 10928 workers per
tower. At 415 square feet per employee, you get 9638 workers per
tower.
Would the offices be *more* crowded than average because of high rent?
Or would the offices be *less* crowded than average, because
businesses would have spacious reception areas and conference rooms,
the better to impress customers with?
New York City is talking about rebuilding, but companies cannot
conduct business on the sidewalk for the next couple of years until
office space opens up. Some companies will experiment with
telecommuting, but others will look at moving major parts of their
operations to Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, and - like Citibank did
with their credit card operation - North Dakota.
deke
Peter of the Norse
<tm...@jump.net> spake:
> - The Pennsylvania plane was shot down by the US Air Force.
Story I heard, at least 4 planes were shot down by the USAF because they
didn't have their transponders on. Of couse the person I heard it from
has been known to lie about almost everything.
--
Peter of the Norse
'"Bordem". I like it. Suggests a whorehouse of ennui.' - Chris Clark
Tom Sevart
the
> > future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of
oppression
> > that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the apocalypse."
> > Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
In a similar vien (closely skirting the BOR), my sister told me of a
videotape she saw about a supposed visitation by the Virgin Mary in Conyers,
GA. Apparently Mary made a revelation that something terrible was going to
happen in a major city in the future.
My sister was afraid that this is the beginning of the end of the world. I
tried to explain to her as gently as I could that there's no real reason to
panic. I could have made the prediction myself. Terrorists are more likely
to target major cities than small rural towns that we live in, obviously for
the population factor. Also, on the videotape she saw, one of the people
"visited" by Mary said that Mary had told her to beware the Chinese, not
Muslims. I think that would be a big enough miss to stand out.
Regardless of my own religious beliefs, I am very skeptical of people
claiming to be visited by the Virgin Mary. My sister, on the other hand, is
more willing to believe in things of that sort.
Tom
Peter Caswell
> [1] My bogometer bongs faintly, because I would expect that 110
> descending stories of concrete and steel would rubbleize any slabs or
> beams at the bottom, not allowing any survival pockets to remain.
> I also wonder why anyone would stay in the basement of a burning
> skyscraper. On the other hand, my bogometer went off big-time when
> the clock radio woke me up this morning, when the DJs said not to go
> to the airport because the FAA had closed all the airports in the US
> -- I thought it was a stupid DJ prank. My bogometer broke when Russia
> declared independence from the USSR in August 1991, and it's never
> worked quite right since.
AT&T reported that their phone switches, located in a sub-basement of
the WTC, continued operating until they were shut down a few hours after
the collapse because they had run out of battery power.
That was some basement.
-Peter "I can probably dig up the press release again if need be."
Caswell
Becky
ummmm... Nostradamus died in 1556 !
dana
it is clearly a photograph from tuesday's horrible tragedy. The
article said this cover was pulled from production on tuesday. The
photo used represents exactly what has been done to the World Trade
Center.
In regards to the anti-capitalist preachings of this group, I may have
agreed if you had asked me on monday, but now i would feel like a
fool, like a traitor. What I see is a nation that is holding itself
together to protect your freedom to make music like this, that speaks
out against our government.
There are reasons we are the strongest nation in the entire world.
And through this we will prevail. I must say that this absolutely
sickens me.
Steve Smith
>
> Paul Herzberg <herz...@ris.at> wrote:
>
> > The Guardian reported that the people who hijacked the planes had bolt
> > cutters. I'm pretty sure they meant box cutters, but I've already seen
> > someone repeat this as a fact on another newsgroup.
> Even for the Guardian, that's an imaginative typo. (But I'm not sure I
> know what a "box cutter" is, so maybe it's understandable.)
A box cutter is simply a single-edged razor blade in a handle, with a
lever you can push to control how far the blade sticks out of the
handle. They're used for light duty cutting, usually for opening
cardboard boxes (hence the name) or cutting plastic packing straps.
At one time (I don't know about recently) the box cutter was the thug's
edged weapon of choice, at least in New York City:
* Dirt cheap
* Available anywhere
* Doesn't (didn't?) come under most concealed weapons laws.
* It's a legitimate tool. You could always claim you needed it for your
work.
* Cops (at first) didn't take them seriously ("He threatened you with a
*razor blade*?? What a wimp!")
* Capable of inflicting horrendous injuries. (Cops certainly take them
seriously *now*.)
I've heard that what the hijackers used were not actual "box cutters",
but another kind of "razor blade in a handle", disguised as something in
a shaving kit. I have no idea how they know this, unless some of those
last minute phone calls got really detailed.
--
Steve Smith s...@aginc.net
Agincourt Computing http://www.aginc.net
"Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense."
Joe Boswell
writes
>At one time (I don't know about recently) the box cutter was the thug's
>edged weapon of choice, at least in New York City:
>
>* Dirt cheap
>* Available anywhere
>* Doesn't (didn't?) come under most concealed weapons laws.
>* It's a legitimate tool. You could always claim you needed it for your
>work.
>* Cops (at first) didn't take them seriously ("He threatened you with a
>*razor blade*?? What a wimp!")
>* Capable of inflicting horrendous injuries. (Cops certainly take them
>seriously *now*.)
Sounds like the type often called a Stanley knife here, after a popular
manufacturer. Big comfortable handle, small one-edge replaceable blade.
Some types have retractable blades, giving variable depth of cut.
They do not cause horrendous injuries normally, just a clean cut,
although that can be bad enough. However, such a cut should be heal
without too much bad scarring. The thug's innovation to get over this is
to put two blades in the knife together. This causes ghastly tears in
flesh that will always look horrific.
--
Joe Boswell * If I cannot be free, I'll be cheap
Timothy A. McDaniel
Peter of the Norse <rahm...@colorado.edu> quoted:
>'"Bordem". I like it. Suggests a whorehouse of ennui.' - Chris Clark
In short, "fuck it".
--
Tim McDaniel is tm...@jump.net; if that fail,
tm...@us.ibm.com is my work account.
"To join the Clueless Club, send a followup to this message quoting everything
up to and including this sig!" -- Jukka....@hut.fi (Jukka Korpela)
Chris Clarke
tm...@jump.net (Timothy A. McDaniel) wrote:
> In article <9nq0t8$7e7$1...@peabody.colorado.edu>,
> Peter of the Norse <rahm...@colorado.edu> quoted:
> >'"Bordem". I like it. Suggests a whorehouse of ennui.' - Chris Clark
>
> In short, "fuck it".
This "Chris Clark" fellow sounds clever. I wonder why he never posts in
AFU.
Chris "Though I bet he appreciates being sigged by Peter of the Nors"
Clarke
Matthew W. Miller
>> "It has been foreseen that exactly three hundred and fifty years into
>> the future, silver phoenixes shall strike down the twin brothers of
>> oppression that carried the king's nation, which shall bring upon the
>> apocalypse." Nostradamus (September 11th, 1651)"
>What is interesting about these fake prophesies is the assumptions it
>makes about the USA:
>1. That somehow we're "king of the world."
What, you mean the States aren't? (As an aside, the ol' Gordon Sinclair
glurge "The Americans" is making the rounds again. It was sent to a
mailing list I subscribe to by someone whose sole purpose in life seems to
be forwarding glurge and factoid lists-- I'm undecided about whether to
even bother replying, since all it ever accomplishes is the usual
it-COULD-be-true and how-DARE-you-ruin-my-EMOTIONAL-POINT-with-your-FACTS
boilerplate.)
>2. That we can/will bring down the wrath of God once we're sufficiently
>pissed.
Nuclear weapons don't seem particularly far off, no.
>I haven't really decided how I feel about either of those assumptions,
>though I can understand the basis.
Breaking the Bo1PS yet again, what I think is particularly sad is that
some people are responding to the terrorist attack with the exact same
kill-'em-all-let-God-sort-'em-out attitudes that likely got us into this
mess in the first place. I'd elaborate, but I'm running out of hyphens.
--
Matthew "Dove" Miller -- mwmi...@columbus.rr.com
Charles A Lieberman
<9nq778$93lbh$1...@ID-52518.news.dfncis.de>
>Apparently Mary made a revelation that something terrible was going to
>happen in a major city in the future.
That's generally a pretty safe bet, unless you quite narrowly
circumscribe "terrible," "major city," and "future."
>Also, on the videotape she saw, one of the people
>"visited" by Mary said that Mary had told her to beware the Chinese, not
>Muslims. I think that would be a big enough miss to stand out.
I haven't been keeping up. Do we know it's a miss?
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "Trying to fit reality to that statement is like
Brooklyn, NY, USA | trying to write a natural history of leprechauns"
cali...@bigfoot.com | --Ian York
http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html
Charles A Lieberman
<3B9F4EE4...@Anet-stl.com>
> In addition, as common knowledge as transponder codes are, it seems
>to me to be rather naive to think that anyone capable of flying the
>aircraft would be unaware of them.
So if a plane says "hijacking" and then doesn't any more, *that* doesn't
worry people?
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "How do two men who abduct and murder a
Brooklyn, New York, USA | German prostitute find someone to sell
| their video to?" --Laurence Doering is
cali...@bigfoot.com | concerned for the small businessman
Charles A Lieberman
<9nmoiu$7fh$1...@news.jump.net>
>[1] My bogometer bongs faintly, because I would expect that 110
>descending stories of concrete and steel would rubbleize any slabs or
>beams at the bottom, not allowing any survival pockets to remain.
Mine bongs because I wasn't able to get cell service in the shopping
part of the WTC at the best of times. The basement sounds like the level
below that.
--
Charles A. Lieberman | "Don't poop on the homeless!"
Brooklyn, New York, USA | -Meredith Robbins
http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html cali...@bigfoot.com
Michael
The number I'm hearing is 450,000 tons of rubble. By the time it hits
the bottom, I suspect there is no *bottom*. The heap that is four or
five storys tall is, um, fairly compact. Someone can do the math but
when one reduces over a hunderd floors to four or five, I suspect what
remains is *squished* if not powdered.
--
Michael
I have three e-mail addresses :
mitc...@image-link.com mitc...@att.net mitc...@home.com
If one doesn't work, well...
Louise Bremner
> (As an aside, the ol' Gordon Sinclair
> glurge "The Americans" is making the rounds again. It was sent to a
> mailing list I subscribe to by someone whose sole purpose in life seems to
> be forwarding glurge and factoid lists--
Same here, except that the person involved struck me as being very
level-headed and sensible up until now. First the Gordon Sinclair one,
now the latest Nostradamus "prediction". I assume it's some form of
coping with a feeling of helplessness.
Trouble is, Snopes is not responding, so I can't suggest it as a useful
place to go for a pre-posting check.
> I'm undecided about whether to
> even bother replying, since all it ever accomplishes is the usual
> it-COULD-be-true and how-DARE-you-ruin-my-EMOTIONAL-POINT-with-your-FACTS
> boilerplate.)
True. But I'm working on my image as an insensitive clod.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise "" Bremner (lowercase: log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
D.F. Manno
<deke...@BLOCK.generous.net> wrote:
> New York City is talking about rebuilding, but companies cannot
> conduct business on the sidewalk for the next couple of years until
> office space opens up. Some companies will experiment with
> telecommuting, but others will look at moving major parts of their
> operations to Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, and - like Citibank did
> with their credit card operation - North Dakota.
The Citibank move had more to do with S. Dakota's highly favorable (from the
banks' viewpoint) laws regarding credit cards than the economics of operating in
NYC.
--
D.F. Manno
domm...@netscape.net
"If you understand, things are just as they should be. If you do not
understand, then things are just as they should be." (Zen koan)
Brian Yeoh
> In article <aqu0qtseiru7070ba...@4ax.com>, deacon b.
> <deke...@BLOCK.generous.net> wrote:
> > New York City is talking about rebuilding, but companies cannot
> > conduct business on the sidewalk for the next couple of years until
> > office space opens up. Some companies will experiment with
> > telecommuting, but others will look at moving major parts of their
> > operations to Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, and - like Citibank did
> > with their credit card operation - North Dakota.
> The Citibank move had more to do with S. Dakota's highly favorable (from the
> banks' viewpoint) laws regarding credit cards than the economics of operating in
> NYC.
Then again, there's a huge amount of real estate opening up in Jersey City
and Brooklyn; lucky timing for the developers.
Brian "but who wants to work in _Jersey_[1] <shudder>" Yeoh
[1] I used to live there, and stil haven't quite recovered.
--
"They lied to you. The Devil is not the Prince of Matter; the Devil is
the arrogance of the spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never
seized by doubt. The Devil is grim because he knows where he is going,
and, in moving, he always returns whence he came."
-- Umberto Eco, "The Name of the Rose"
Edward Rice
mwmi...@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) wrote:
> What, you mean the States aren't? (As an aside, the ol' Gordon Sinclair
> glurge "The Americans" is making the rounds again. It was sent to a
> mailing list I subscribe to by someone whose sole purpose in life seems
to
> be forwarding glurge and factoid lists-- I'm undecided about whether to
> even bother replying, since all it ever accomplishes is the usual
> it-COULD-be-true and
how-DARE-you-ruin-my-EMOTIONAL-POINT-with-your-FACTS
> boilerplate.)
Send this URL:
http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/schools/rta/ccf/news/unique/am_text.html
back to the "The Americans" Americans. It gives much more historical
context context, it's the original original, and it shows that the covering
material isn't correct either.
And good luck finding more hyphen hyphens.
-- E "here are six you can re-re-use" R
--
Edward A Dimmick
>
>
> They do not cause horrendous injuries normally, just a clean cut,
> although that can be bad enough.
>
of slicing major blood vessels, nerves, or periosteum [1].
> However, such a cut should be heal without too much bad scarring.
>
If its not too deep and barring other complications. [2]
> The thug's innovation to get over this is to put two blades in the
> knife together. This causes ghastly tears in flesh that will always
> look horrific.
>
The designs I've seen would not accommodate two at a time. [3] Of course
TWIAVBP and all that...
-ED \1/
[1] Layer of connective tissue covering bone which has a rich nerve and
blood supply; most of the pain sensation from bone fractures originates
from the periosteum, not the bone itself.
[2] Not that I'd, uh, know personally. Nope, not me, I'd never be
clumsy enough to cut my own hand with a box knife...really.
[3] This sentence could be recycled in a number of different contexts.
--
"Kiwi fell sideways into the water and . . . managed to rupture his
eardrum. Chuck offered to pump his head full of Fix-A-Flat but was
rebuffed." - field medicine among the staff of 'Motor Trend'
Tom Sevart
"Charles A Lieberman" <cali...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:6k62qtstdkh5vcvt6...@4ax.com...
>
> >Also, on the videotape she saw, one of the people
> >"visited" by Mary said that Mary had told her to beware the Chinese, not
> >Muslims. I think that would be a big enough miss to stand out.
>
> I haven't been keeping up. Do we know it's a miss?
Well, as far as I know, so far no fingers have been pointed at the Chinese.
Tom
Tom Sevart
"Louise Bremner" <dame_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ezproq.9oni39t32x8oN%dame_...@yahoo.com...
> > I'm undecided about whether to
> > even bother replying, since all it ever accomplishes is the usual
> > it-COULD-be-true and
how-DARE-you-ruin-my-EMOTIONAL-POINT-with-your-FACTS
> > boilerplate.)
>
> True. But I'm working on my image as an insensitive clod.
I'm going to reply. The last thing we need is a bunch of people running
around thinking it's the end of the world because "Nostradamus said so."
Tom
M. J. Freeman
>> >Also, on the videotape she saw, one of the people
>> >"visited" by Mary said that Mary had told her to beware the
>> >Chinese, not Muslims. I think that would be a big enough miss to
>> >stand out.
>>
>> I haven't been keeping up. Do we know it's a miss?
>
> Well, as far as I know, so far no fingers have been pointed at the
> Chinese.
Nope, I've already heard folks speculating on how the terrorist are all
just pawns of the Chinese.
--
Michael J. Freeman (a.k.a., Pi)
mike_f...@mac.com_noSpam Cincinnati, OH
"Insanity runs in the family; it practically gallops"
Ellison, H. Thompson, D. Parker, Prince, SRV, Led Zep
John Schmitt
"Tom Sevart" <n2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I'm going to reply. The last thing we need is a bunch of people running
>around thinking it's the end of the world because "Nostradamus said so."
I should just like to point out that, historically, predictions of the end of
the world have been inaccurate, if not downright misleading.
John "unless the Dougls Addams theory[1] holds water" Schmitt
[1] When the world ends it will be replaced by something even more bizarrely
inexplicable. Some people think this has happened already.
--
It's half and half. Sometimes they're lying, sometimes they don't know what's
happening. - Vladimir Urban on the Russian submarine 'Kursk' crisis.
I've got a disclaimer, and I ain't afraid to use it.
Dan Fingerman
news:9nmn0q$2lo$1...@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca:
> There must have been lots of cases of ordinary events being
> converted into possible terrorist acts by a heightened state of
> vigilance. Parliament Hill in Ottawa was briefly evacuated because
> of an unidentified van, supposed to contain a bomb.
>
> Illegally parked vehicles are, shall we say, not unknown there, but
> not normally the cause of evacuations.
We observed this effect nearly two years ago, when every minor blip was
(at least temporarily) blamed on Y2K. When the clocks rolled from 1999
to 2000, every government and major company in the world had a staff on
hand to investigate every minor disturbance -- with a lot of time on
their hands to get worked up over false leads.
I stayed in that night to help my father, who was an IT executive. My
favorite story from that night is about a workstation running Win98
that had been having driver problems for over a year. The problems
had been too minor to warrant IT's attention before -- the guy working
there just had to reboot once a day. Suddenly, around 11pm on New
Year's Eve, someone on the IT staff noticed that the workstation had
been reported repeatedly for problems, and the emergency response team
for that building was dispatched to that desk. They arrived in three
minutes. Within 15 minutes, they had downloaded and installed the
appropriate driver, and the closest thing to a Y2K disaster (at least
in this company) was averted.
--
DTM :<|
Karen J. Cravens
news:xSbesaAW...@bigbad.demon.co.uk:
> Sounds like the type often called a Stanley knife here, after a popular
> manufacturer. Big comfortable handle, small one-edge replaceable blade.
> Some types have retractable blades, giving variable depth of cut.
"Utility knife," I think is what they're called 'round here. I think ours
*is* a Stanley brand, though.
Boxcutters, to me, are the critters you use to open boxes. Exclusively.
They've got a teeny little blade that physically *can't* cut anything
thicker than corrugated cardboard. The idea is that you open the box
without damaging the contents. For certain values of "without damaging"
that include a slight scoring, anyhow.
--
Karen J. Cravens
Steve Smith
>
> In article <3BA0CFC5...@aginc.net>, Steve Smith <s...@aginc.net>
> writes
> >At one time (I don't know about recently) the box cutter was the thug's
> >edged weapon of choice, at least in New York City:
> >
> >* Dirt cheap
> >* Available anywhere
> >* Doesn't (didn't?) come under most concealed weapons laws.
> >* It's a legitimate tool. You could always claim you needed it for your
> >work.
> >* Cops (at first) didn't take them seriously ("He threatened you with a
> >*razor blade*?? What a wimp!")
> >* Capable of inflicting horrendous injuries. (Cops certainly take them
> >seriously *now*.)
>
> Sounds like the type often called a Stanley knife here, after a popular
> manufacturer. Big comfortable handle, small one-edge replaceable blade.
> Some types have retractable blades, giving variable depth of cut.
Stanley makes a "deluxe" version. Most of the ones I've seen are real
"el cheapos", where you have to remove two little screws to change the
blade. The screws are always coming loose, causing the whole thing to
fall apart in your hand while you're using it. The Stanleys don't do
this.
> They do not cause horrendous injuries normally, just a clean cut,
> although that can be bad enough. However, such a cut should be heal
> without too much bad scarring. The thug's innovation to get over this is
> to put two blades in the knife together. This causes ghastly tears in
> flesh that will always look horrific.
When I say horrendous injuries, I'm not talking about how they look. I
seem to remember that the typical boxcutter attack needs over 100
stitches to fix. A 40 cm cut that's 2 cm deep is pretty horrendous in
my book. Attack victims tend to have several such cuts.
Another reason that boxcutters are popular with thugs is that they
seldom, if ever, cause death, as the cuts are too shallow to hit most
major blood vessels. If the attack victim dies, the rules change.
Drastically and immediately.
Louise Bremner
> > > I'm undecided about whether to even bother replying, since all it ever
> > > accomplishes is the usual it-COULD-be-true and
> > > how-DARE-you-ruin-my-EMOTIONAL-POINT-with-your-FACTS boilerplate.)
> > True. But I'm working on my image as an insensitive clod.
>
> I'm going to reply. The last thing we need is a bunch of people running
> around thinking it's the end of the world because "Nostradamus said so."
Agreed--especially if it's a modern Nostradamus pastiche. I took great
delight in poking holes in that nastiness.
But note that I was also referring to the rewrite of the Gordon Sinclair
speech, which does seem to be offering some comfort to some people--it
seemed so churlish to comment on that one in view of that effect.
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, write to my GOL address!
Geoff Burling
wrote:
>
>Darned good estimate the size of the building. You came up with 4.4
>million square feet per tower, and USA Today reports 4 million.
>
Thanks.
>However, 125 feet per worker (100 SF for cubicle and aisle, and 20%
>used for mechanical stuff) is *awfully* crowded.
>
Well, in my experience as a cubicle dweller, 100 SF for cubicle and aisle is
on the generous side. I've had to work in cubicles as small as 6 x 6 feet --
& this had little correlation to how much I was paid.
>http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cbecs/char99/prelim1.htm#Table%2011
>says that buildings average 824 square feet per worker. Depending on
>use, the numbers range from 366 for outpatient health care to 1690 for
>warehousing to 2080 for religious worship to 7629 for vacant
>buildings.
>
>Office buildings average 415 square feet per employee.
>
Wow. When I was employed, I dreamed of having 415 sqf! (MP reference
intentional, but the sentiment is nonetheless true.) I'd be quite satisfied even
with 366 sqf.
>Divide 4 million square feet by 366 and you get 10928 workers per
>tower. At 415 square feet per employee, you get 9638 workers per
>tower.
>
>Would the offices be *more* crowded than average because of high rent?
>Or would the offices be *less* crowded than average, because
>businesses would have spacious reception areas and conference rooms,
>the better to impress customers with?
>
Business rule of thumb is always ``As much as you have to, but as little as
you need to." A trader making 6 figures might be quite content with a 6 x 6
sized space. A secretary making 40,000 per annum could argue she's crowded
with less than 300 sqf for her desk & her voluminous files.
Geoff
--
Marc Reeve
>I wonder if this site might not change radically in the next week.
>
>http://www.girlieaction.com/coup/coup-cover-300.jpg
>
Yup, it's gone.
Marc "CNN said it would be, and on this, they were correct" Reeve
--
Marc Reeve cmr...@armory.com Embrace Spamfuscation
"Men do not use their penis to push the supermarket trolley. They do not use it
to greet each other, apart from perhaps after a large amount of alcohol and a
vindaloo on a Friday night."
Lao Tzu
>
> Chris Clarke <ccl...@faultline.org> wrote:
> >I wonder if this site might not change radically in the next week.
> >
> >http://www.girlieaction.com/coup/coup-cover-300.jpg
> >
> Yup, it's gone.
>
Streaming over the jewled ballustrade.