Eindhoven meet June 16, 2001, reality#23653b
Jeroen G. Metselaar
It was a dark and rainy day. The clouds swept by on the lead-coloured sky
as if they were fleeing from something horrible, probebly the weather. As
the sullen rain drenched the few people venturing outside some people
gathered in the Trafalgar Pub in Eindhoven. It was yet another afp-meet.
I arrived at the pub together with Kimberley, Eelco (the Organizer),
Patrick, Uwe and Rolf. At our usual spot we found Menno, Olaf and Cindy.
When the barmen came with the Guinness the meet could start properly.
Shorly after that we were surprised to see Vashti, an unexpected but very
welcome addition. Also a very nice surprise was to see Timt and Don Alfonso
who stayed just long enough for a pint, too bad to couldn't stay longer.
When later reinier arrived we moved to the table for our meal.
At the table we admired the placemats, printed with a dutch 'Devil's Diary'
kind of thing. It was entertaining although some of them were a bit too
obscure for us.
Alas our ploy to lure Merkin girls to the meet by bringing a comfy
cha^H^H^Hpillow didn't work, but Kimberley managed to impersonize one quite
well. During the meal Kimberley was attacked by an exploding Tomato ketchup
sauce making her look like she just axed someone.
When food was finished the placemats were used to create hats, boats and
planes. Of course German Engineering won with a rather amazingly complex
and efficient plane. Then Olaf was giving a hat and we sung for his
birthday.
It was now that the meet really was gaining momentum with Patrick, Rolf,
and vashti geeking bra's in one corner while other people were playing
with balloon sculptures and juggling happened to outweird the women having
a hen night on the table next to us. Fights happened with balloon swords,
parrots were deformed and, well.. it was a Dutch meet. There are no words
enough.
After a while people were leaving and the meet broke up. A small contingent
crashed ar Eelco's. As usual his parents where very hospitable. The
provided transport, showers and a very nice breakfast.
Quotes:
Things that were said , might have been said , or were never said at all at
the meet by the people mentioned, or other people, or nobody at all.
Patrick: Cool, it doesn't work.
Flexor: Beat me, spank me, Windows ME (TM).
timt: I still dream in ALGOL60.
Eelco: Sucking, licking, what is the difference?
Uwe: Is there a reason you are decorating the table with phallic sympols?
Reinier: yes, you have to blow it before.
Jeroen B. to Eelco: We keep up ending at the same position.
Vashti to Eelco: You are hungry, arent't you?
--
Jeroen "Labrat" G. Metselaar - http://www.labrat.nl
AFP-Rodent with ratty and Supermouse
Keeper of the Signed Condoms, He Once Bought an Apple
Patrick Dersjant
been archived on the L-Space meet pages]
a - a scroll of news from Jeroen G. Metselaar
Read it? y
>Meet Report,
Nice to meet you.
>It was a dark and rainy day. The clouds swept by on the lead-coloured sky
>as if they were fleeing from something horrible, probebly the weather. As
>the sullen rain drenched the few people venturing outside some people
>gathered in the Trafalgar Pub in Eindhoven. It was yet another afp-meet.
Nice atmosphere. Hate to tell you it was *dry* when we arrived. But it
was too nice not to write it, I have to admit.
>Shorly after that we were surprised to see Vashti, an unexpected but very
>welcome addition. Also a very nice surprise was to see Timt and Don Alfonso
>who stayed just long enough for a pint, too bad to couldn't stay longer.
>When later reinier arrived we moved to the table for our meal.
Not after playing with the geek toys vashti brought. Amongst them a
wooden puzzle you had to build a cube from by omitting two pieces. (See
Rolf and Uwe's meet pictures for details). According to the manual,
there was one piece that should always be used, however it was quickly
proven that a cube could be built without it as well.
>At the table we admired the placemats, printed with a dutch 'Devil's Diary'
>kind of thing. It was entertaining although some of them were a bit too
>obscure for us.
As I said to Rolf: If they expect to keep us entertained with the place
mats until the food arrives, they must be bloody quick in the kitchen.
>When food was finished the placemats were used to create hats, boats and
>planes. Of course German Engineering won with a rather amazingly complex
>and efficient plane. Then Olaf was giving a hat and we sung for his
>birthday.
My ploy to get a really nice children's ice cream with sparks and
umbrellas and stuff were, alas, doomed.
>It was now that the meet really was gaining momentum with Patrick, Rolf,
>and vashti geeking bra's in one corner
I must emphatically note that we were actually geeking palm os
handholds. Bra's didn't come into it, except for comparing handheld
prices.
>while other people were playing
>with balloon sculptures and juggling happened to outweird the women having
>a hen night on the table next to us.
This being an afp meet, this was achieved with flying colours^H
balloons.
>Fights happened with balloon swords,
>parrots were deformed and, well.. it was a Dutch meet. There are no words
>enough.
Oh yes there are, but I thank you for not using them.
>After a while people were leaving and the meet broke up. A small contingent
>crashed ar Eelco's. As usual his parents where very hospitable. The
>provided transport, showers and a very nice breakfast.
Yes, as always the morning after was softened quite a bit by the
magnificent breakfast (and loads of coffee). Discussion in the meantime
included the afpmovie project and coordinating CCDE pre-plans.
Topics discussed during the meet also included CCDE, dutch meets to come
and those passed, geeking on several subjects, including embedded
programming, guinness, the weather, giant inflatable penguins, and loads
of stuff I can't remember anymore.
A great meet, indeed. Except for our journey back, which took about 3
hours due to a giant traffic jam. Bah.
Patrick
Andy Davison
<9gkm50$gsf$1...@library.lspace.org>, nos...@vanitydomain.org (Patrick
Dersjant) wrote:
> geeking on several subjects, including embedded
>programming, guinness,
I once spent an afternoon in a pub geeking Guinness with a couple of
colleagues, one West Indian, one Irish. The West Indian preferred
Nigerian bottled Guinness but would accept Belgian bottled or Foreign
Extra Stout as a substitute. I preferred the Dublin bottled Guinness
Export Stout (wimp that I am). The Irish bloke liked the draught
Guinness he could get in Ireland. We all agreed that UK draught
Guinness had gone right downhill when they introduced nitrogen
dispense. Even the Dublin bottled ain't what it used to be now it's no
longer bottle conditioned. A friend from Tamworth told me he had a
pint or two of draught Guinness at Coopers in Burton-on-Trent on
gravity (no nitro) a couple of years ago. I think it was before the
Bass sold the pub to another brewery (Hardy & Hanson?)
Laurabelle
<lab...@labrat.nl> wrote:
<snip all except:>
>Alas our ploy to lure Merkin girls to the meet by bringing a comfy
>cha^H^H^Hpillow didn't work,
Huh? I don't remember any attempts to lure me... Unless
you're not talking about me...
I would have loved to be there, but I thought that since I'm
already making three international trips this month, I
shouldn't push it (especially since I'm leaving again
tomorrow!).
Btw I suppose this is as good a place as any to make a little
announcement to AFP that my big brother (also a Pratchett fan)
is getting married to his wonderful fiancee on Saturday. I'm
his groomswoman, which is slightly interesting... Even though
I got an invitation to the bachelor's party, I think I'm going
to forego that one (I'd rather watch chick flicks with the
bridesmaids).
Laurabelle
--
I'd be ashamed to see a woman walking around
with my name-label on her, address and railway
station, like a wardrobe trunk.
-- D. H. Lawrence, _Lady Chatterley's Lover_
Patrick Dersjant
Read it? y
>On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:04:08 +0200, Jeroen G. Metselaar
><lab...@labrat.nl> wrote:
>
><snip all except:>
>>Alas our ploy to lure Merkin girls to the meet by bringing a comfy
>>cha^H^H^Hpillow didn't work,
>
>Huh? I don't remember any attempts to lure me... Unless
>you're not talking about me...
The argument ran approximately thus: Merkin girls always sleep at dutch
meets. So we should make conditions such that sleeping at the meet is
comfortable, that might attract them - and therefor the pillow.
>I would have loved to be there, but I thought that since I'm
>already making three international trips this month, I
>shouldn't push it (especially since I'm leaving again
>tomorrow!).
Ah, trips, schmips. As long as you can still recognize different cities,
you're fine <g>.
Patrick
--
If only I had a .signature...
JeroenB
<lab...@labrat.nl> wrote:
>After a while people were leaving and the meet broke up. A small contingent
>crashed ar Eelco's. As usual his parents where very hospitable. The
>provided transport, showers and a very nice breakfast.
On the basis of a vaguely remembered comment about an amendment to a
rule that due to the small size of the Netherlands quorate for Dutch
meets under some circumstances need only comprise two, here is the
tale of what happened after the small contingent was packed off in a
taxi to Eelco's.
Presented with a lack of coherence and structure truly appropriate to
the events that ensued: Eindhoven 10b - On the Wild Side.
First of all, JeroenB went to the bank.
Then, we descended upon De Bakkerij.
Description of this establishment to those not resident in Eindhoven
is not a simple task. In these smoke-filled rooms, you can certainly
observe the most ... interesting dancing. And here, that smoke isn't
necessarily cigarette smoke - this is, after all, The Netherlands.
Lounging around its walls and propped up to its bars, the denizens
range from secondary school kids to ancient geezers. In between,
there's an awful lot of leather.
The bouncer seemed to know us... truly, we don't know why.
</innocence>
During the course of the evening we giggled, we may even have
sniggered at some point. Wild, ecstatic dancing was perpetrated, and a
good time was had by all.
The snippets recorded below may help to picture the scene...
Vincent: "I don't see you round here often."
Vashti: "Excuse me?"
JeroenB: "This is interesting."
Neil: "Wow!"
Neil: "What's your star sign?"
Vashti: "Capricorn."
Neil: "Wow! I'm Cancer!!!"
Vashti: "If you see me doing that, ignore me."
<music: 2 Unlimited, No Limit>
JeroenB: "oo! I actually know this!"
Vashti: "And to think that most of the people dancing to this are
dressed in leather..."
Vashti: "That's a bad career choice."
Neil: "Wow!"
Vashti: "I would accost total strangers, but I don't think I will."
Vashti to JeroenB: "By the way, you could get fined for that."
anonymous couple: "I think we're going now."
Bouncer locks door. <snap>. With us inside. "It's not easy, you know."
Other Bouncer: "I *really* think it's time you should go home now."
Bar staff: "Thank you. Goodbye."
Vashti: "Now where did I leave my bike?"
JeroenB: "I know where I live, I'm just not entirely sure where I am
now."
JeroenB: "Is that green?"
Vashti: "No, it's orange."
JeroenB: "Is it?"
Vashti: "No, now it's red."
JeroenB & Vashti
Vashti
> On 18 Jun 2001 10:45:52 GMT, Patrick Dersjant wrote:
> >I must emphatically note that we were actually geeking palm os
> >handholds. Bra's didn't come into it, except for comparing handheld
> >prices.
>
> Um, so how does this work?
> You need two handful [of money] for both?
No, no, no...once you need an awkward bra-size, 4 bras = 1 palm.
That was it, wasn't it...?
> Hm...
Yeah, now what's *that* supposed to mean? : )
vashti
Patrick Dersjant
Read it? y
>On 18 Jun 2001 10:45:52 GMT, Patrick Dersjant wrote:
>
>>>and vashti geeking bra's in one corner
>>
>>I must emphatically note that we were actually geeking palm os
>>handholds. Bra's didn't come into it, except for comparing handheld
>>prices.
>
>You need two handful [of money] for both?
Nope, you're not going to lure me into starting another bra thread. Ask
your brother. He was there ;).
theLadyGoddess
"Jeroen G. Metselaar" <lab...@labrat.nl> wrote in message
news:9gj2gr$685cp$1...@reader03.wxs.nl...
| Meet Report,
|
<<snip>>
|
|
(don't think we really needed to read all that again...)
Sounds like it was a lot of fun! Now I am really feeling isolated
out here in Fourecks :o( So when are we all getting together out
here guys? Huh? Puhleese...?
--
theLadyGoddess
(no cool sig, how about an invite?)
Come join us at Addicted to Discworld
http://communities.msn.com/AddictedtoDiscworld
Laurabelle
Dersjant) wrote:
>a - a scroll of news from Laurabelle
> Read it? y
>>On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:04:08 +0200, Jeroen G. Metselaar
>><lab...@labrat.nl> wrote:
>><snip all except:>
>>>Alas our ploy to lure Merkin girls to the meet by bringing a comfy
>>>cha^H^H^Hpillow didn't work,
I must be getting soft. I didn't object to being called a
girl - a sensitivity developed by my being a student at a
women's college (not a girl's school!!). It's such a reflex
these days, partly because when I first arrived at MHC, I had
to consciously remember not to call myself a girl, and it was
a while before I felt comfortable with calling myself a
woman... Really I shouldn't care about what other people call
me (I am who I am regardless of a noun), and I think I'm
confident enough of myself that it doesn't make much
difference to me. Otoh there are other women who really do
care, and also I think people should be conscious of their
language and its implications, which is part of why I mention
it (which hopefully isn't the same as making an issue out of
it).
But I still get peeved about the "girls' school" thing. Even
when women say it.
>>Huh? I don't remember any attempts to lure me... Unless
>>you're not talking about me...
>
>The argument ran approximately thus: Merkin girls always sleep at dutch
>meets. So we should make conditions such that sleeping at the meet is
>comfortable, that might attract them - and therefor the pillow.
It might work sometime, actually... I'm hoping to eventually
raise my price to a waterbed, but I'm content to start small.
>>I would have loved to be there, but I thought that since I'm
>>already making three international trips this month, I
>>shouldn't push it (especially since I'm leaving again
>>tomorrow!).
>
>Ah, trips, schmips. As long as you can still recognize different cities,
>you're fine <g>.
Yeah, but I kind of think people might like me to have some
clean laundry occasionally... though otoh that might not be a
bad thing since it might stop you lot from harassing me. :-)
Laurabelle
--
What a refreshing mind you have, young man. There really
is nothing quite like total ignorance, is there?
-- Neil Gaiman, _Neverwhere_
J.T. Wenting
> out here in Fourecks :o( So when are we all getting together out
> here guys? Huh? Puhleese...?
>
Mary Messall
<"Girls" or "Women">
> difference to me. Otoh there are other women who really do
> care, and also I think people should be conscious of their
> language and its implications, which is part of why I mention
> it (which hopefully isn't the same as making an issue out of
> it).
Once, probably six years ago, I wrote a story about twelve year olds. I
think their names were Lisa and Molly, or something like that. It was a
happy, boring, lousy sort of story, and it no longer exists. All that
remains now is the memory of Microsoft Word's grammar checker picking
out every instance of the word "girls" in the story and giving me a
lecture at least a paragraph long on why "women" should be used instead,
because "girls" is demeaning. A nice, happy story about twelve-year-old
women, it would have had me write... <g>
Anyway, I don't see any problem with the word "girls" to describe
females, in the same contexts where I'd use "guys" to describe males.
Talking about "girls and men" or "women and guys" seems weird to me.
-Mary (who had a roommate last year who would persistently talk about
inviting "boys" to a party, seeing the "boys" in the student union. Very
strange, because in my usage "boy" is almost archaic, reserved only for
children in elementary school or younger.)
Kincaid
Mary Messall <mmes...@ups.edu> wrote:
> -Mary (who had a roommate last year who would persistently talk about
> inviting "boys" to a party, seeing the "boys" in the student union. Very
> strange, because in my usage "boy" is almost archaic, reserved only for
> children in elementary school or younger.)
I find that deciding what to call female friends is also tricky. I'm 25,
and most of my female friends are are of a similar age and thus 'women'.
But that makes them sound really old, as 'men and women' were always
grown-ups and thus a lot older than me. 'Girls' also sounds a bit odd and
somewhat belittling (I mean, they are obviously not girls anymore).
Thus, I tend to use the somewhat archaic 'ladies', as it sounds nice and
polite.
As and as for male friends, well, lads usually does well enough.
--
Kincaid Labs
Tampering in God's domain since 1975
Jennifer en Reinier Sjouw
> Meet Report,
>
which I snipped, because was nicely concise, and both sufficiently accurate
_and_ sufficiently inaccurate to be a good report. Then he came up with the
>
>
> Quotes:
>
> Things that were said , might have been said , or were never said at all
at
> the meet by the people mentioned, or other people, or nobody at all.
>
which were interesting - and amazing. Did I really....
But that isn't the main point about the quotes. I would have liked to see
the quote about omegas, polite society, and how the two are mutually
exclusive to have gone into the quote file. But I cannot do it myself
because all I remember is the gist of it!
Ok, ok, so I have to buy my own Palm or Psion or other PDA and keep my own
quotefile. Bother. I should have seen that one coming. Anyway, anyone out
there who remembers the original phrase?
Reinier.
Melody S-K
Kincaid <Kin...@kincaid.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4a8d2fe9...@freeserve.co.uk...
It is odd isn't it?
When I go out for a drink with female friends I will always say I am
going out with the *girls*. If I describe a group of women of my own
age or similar (mid forties) I will say *women*. * Ladies* is only
used by me if I am trying to get the attention of a gaggle of females
whether it is in the pub or the church hall.
My husbands friends are always *men* but my oldest sons friends are
*boys* or *lads*
I expect it is as normal , horses for courses
Melody
--
Ku Klux Gran
Patrick Dersjant
Read it? y
>>
>>Yeah, now what's *that* supposed to mean? : )
>
>meaninglessness. Or something.
>
>Cheers
> Uwe (<a793fa5887b72fcb...@fitug.de>)
Now, that's unfair. You could at least have translated that <g>.
David Jensen
"Melody S-K" <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote in
<9goc8s$ab037$1...@ID-6544.news.dfncis.de>:
>
>When I go out for a drink with female friends I will always say I am
>going out with the *girls*. If I describe a group of women of my own
>age or similar (mid forties) I will say *women*. * Ladies* is only
>used by me if I am trying to get the attention of a gaggle of females
>whether it is in the pub or the church hall.
>
>My husbands friends are always *men* but my oldest sons friends are
>*boys* or *lads*
>
>I expect it is as normal , horses for courses
Well, here in the USA, lads won't cut it, but "guys" is a perfectly
acceptable way to describe males who aren't worrying about their age or
place in the social structure at the moment. I cannot think of a good
analogue for women, clearly Runyon's will not do--I cannot imagine any
women saying that they're going out with "the dolls". Sure, women can
say they're going out with the girls, but men cannot ask "how the girls
were" at the end of such an evening. Any recommendations?
David Sander
Ladies.
Referring to females from little girls to old women as "ladies"
typically wins smiles all round.
At least, around here that is.
David
Siobhan
"David Sander" <sur...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> Ladies.
>
> Referring to females from little girls to old women as "ladies"
> typically wins smiles all round.
>
> At least, around here that is.
Urgh. Gives me the shivers. I'm not a "lady" in any sense of the word, you
see. I don't follow traditionally female roles or behaviour patterns, which
would seem to be indicated by that word, nor have I received or inherited
titles. And I dislike the (usually) pretended respect that comes with that
word, that is actually patronisation. Having been addressed as "ladies"
together with my class at school, in an attempt to modify "unladylike"
behaviour, I cannot stand it.
Woman is fine. Girl less so, but will take it from my friends. Young woman
is most accurate, tho' cumbersome. Being referred to by name is best. :o)
Anyone who refers to me as 'dear' or 'love' will be on the receiving end of
icy politeness and occasional sarcasm. Unless it comes from sweet little old
ladies *g* who really mean it. *chuckle*
Siobhan
T J Wilkinson
wrote:
>In article <3B2F63...@ups.edu>,
>I find that deciding what to call female friends is also tricky. I'm 25,
>and most of my female friends are are of a similar age and thus 'women'.
>But that makes them sound really old, as 'men and women' were always
>grown-ups and thus a lot older than me. 'Girls' also sounds a bit odd and
>somewhat belittling (I mean, they are obviously not girls anymore).
>Thus, I tend to use the somewhat archaic 'ladies', as it sounds nice and
>polite.
When I was at a single-sex high school (female, of course), we used to
use 'guys' all the time for ourselves.
What made me a bit unsure was when I was learning to ski I was put
into a group which happened to be all male apart from me and the
instructor addressed us as "guys". Which was fine. Then two other
girls joined and we were suddenly "guys and girls". Hmmm.
Tracy
--
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tajwileb/
"People who have tried it, tell me that a clear conscience makes you very
happy and contented; but a full stomach does the business quite as well,
and is cheaper, and more easily obtained." - J. K. Jerome
Jennifer en Reinier Sjouw
news:9goc8s$ab037$1...@ID-6544.news.dfncis.de...
>
<snip>
> My husbands friends are always *men*
regardless of gender?
<g,d&r>
Reinier - who hasn't smoked for 7-and-a-half months now, so he can outrun
Melody :-)
Melody S-K
Jennifer en Reinier Sjouw <rei...@afake.address> wrote in message
news:9gqie1$ciq$1...@library.lspace.org...
> Melody S-K <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote in message
> news:9goc8s$ab037$1...@ID-6544.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> <snip>
> > My husbands friends are always *men*
>
> regardless of gender?
> <g,d&r>
Hmmm ...smart arse :o)
>
> Reinier - who hasn't smoked for 7-and-a-half months now, so he can
outrun
> Melody :-)
Dammit ...how *did* you manage to do that? Ive been trying off and on
for the past 20 years and still havent managed it.
Mind you ...I think a tortiose can outrun me <g> Unless of course I
have several people bearing down upon me with very large water cannons
...bot can I move then :o)
Melody S-K
Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:9gpa1o$a68$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
Snippage
> Woman is fine. Girl less so, but will take it from my friends. Young
woman
> is most accurate, tho' cumbersome. Being referred to by name is
best. :o)
> Anyone who refers to me as 'dear' or 'love' will be on the receiving
end of
> icy politeness and occasional sarcasm. Unless it comes from sweet
little old
> ladies *g* who really mean it. *chuckle*
But then when do young women become old women? I dont feel as though I
am an old woman yet , but to a twenty something I may appear to be. To
me and old woman is someone in their 70's .
And do NOT come up with the 'howabout middle aged woman' then. It
conjures up dreadful images in most peoples minds ..most of which I do
not fit nor do any other of the afpers of my age
Paul Wilkins
> Melody S-K wrote
> > My husbands friends are always *men*
> regardless of gender?
> <g,d&r>
Husbands - at least, in my country - tend to be strictly forbidden from
having any female friends. Given such, all husbands friends are male.
Strangely though, such restrictions for wives are less common.
Paul Wilkins
--
/\ Project | Paul Wilkins | If it is troubles with netiquette - educate
/__\ Mayhem | Christchurch | If it is abuse of others - educate or flame
pmayhem.org | (03) 3433097 | If it is personal style - silently killfile
(IT people when asked to do something, will always do a 2 hour download)
Eric Jarvis
> Jennifer en Reinier Sjouw wrote
> > Melody S-K wrote
> > > My husbands friends are always *men*
> > regardless of gender?
> > <g,d&r>
>
> Husbands - at least, in my country - tend to be strictly forbidden from
> having any female friends. Given such, all husbands friends are male.
> Strangely though, such restrictions for wives are less common.
>
yep...makes sense...smart critters them Kiwi women :)
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
"money can't buy you love, but sometimes dinner
is much more important"
Dragon Prince
Mel...@Wibble.org says...
>
>
> I expect it is as normal , horses for courses
Melody
your allways a girl to me :)
--
dp
--
'When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I
thought as a child: but when I became a man I put away childish
things because. wow, then I could afford much *better* childish
things!'
Terry Pratchett
Quantum Moth
>
>
> Mind you ...I think a tortiose can outrun me <g> Unless of course I
> have several people bearing down upon me with very large water cannons
> ...bot can I move then :o)
>
We shall see...
--
thom willis - sc...@mostly.com - Corinne's Worse Half
**movie- http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz**
you *are* going to be at ccde, right?
Siobhan
"Melody S-K" <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote:
> But then when do young women become old women? I dont feel as though I
> am an old woman yet , but to a twenty something I may appear to be. To
> me and old woman is someone in their 70's .
>
> And do NOT come up with the 'howabout middle aged woman' then. It
> conjures up dreadful images in most peoples minds ..most of which I do
> not fit nor do any other of the afpers of my age
No, it's just woman. You see, I'm in that age frame where people haven't
quite sorted out whether I'm a girl or a woman. As I am over 18, and
*almost* over 21, I prefer woman. Young woman is an appropriate descriptive
term. My use of "sweet little old lady" was a joke. :o) Every other age is
just "woman" to me, unless, as you said they're in their mid 70s or
something, and a more descriptive term is needed, then, an appropriate
descriptive term is "old(er) woman".
It's how I organise it, anyway.
Siobhan
Geoff Field
When my mother was involved in the local lawn bowls club, it was
quite normal to hear references to the "girls", meaning any woman
at the club. Note that the youngest of these "girls" was over
60. Even Mum thought that was a tad odd...
Geoff
Eelco Giele
> "Melody S-K" <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote:
>> And do NOT come up with the 'howabout middle aged woman' then. It
You could try the age-neutral "female". Tends to make every sentence
you speak[1] sound like some legal paper, but there you go.
>> conjures up dreadful images in most peoples minds ..most of which I do
>> not fit nor do any other of the afpers of my age
In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
woman.
> quite sorted out whether I'm a girl or a woman. As I am over 18, and
> *almost* over 21, I prefer woman.
QED :)
Greetings, Eelco
[1] containing that word, of course.
Siobhan
"Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
> woman.
Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks. This is a preference
I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to be patronised, thank you. In
fact, it is a preference common to almost all women of my acquaintance.
Others are welcome to prefer whatever address they choose. It's like... I
prefer Ms, as do most women of my acquaintance. Some prefer Miss or Mrs, and
they're welcome to it.
> > quite sorted out whether I'm a girl or a woman. As I am over 18, and
> > *almost* over 21, I prefer woman.
>
> QED :)
*pokes tongue out* Nyah.
Siobhan
Suzi
>
> "Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
>
> > In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
> > called woman.
>
> Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks. This is a
> preference I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to be
> patronised, thank you. In fact, it is a preference common to
> almost all women of my acquaintance.
How old are they (in general / on average)? I'd refer to "a night out
with the girls" if I were to go out in all-female company, and I also
refer to similar nights out for himself as "a night out with the lads".
I tend to use the term "Chaps" as a fairly unisex catch-all though, and
have been known to use the term "Chapesses". As someone well the wrong
side of 30, I find I do tend to prefer "girls" to "women" (as somehow
"women" seems so, I dunno, cold and impersonal). And I tend to use
"girls" to cover all females from 1 through to 90.
> Others are welcome to prefer whatever address they choose. It's
> like... I prefer Ms, as do most women of my acquaintance. Some
> prefer Miss or Mrs, and they're welcome to it.
I suspect this is very much an age thing too - most of _my_ female
acquaintances of around my age (or older) prefer Miss or Mrs and regard
the generic "Ms" as, frankly, rude (as in a "they couldn't be bothered
to check my name out properly" type sense)... it also, to my ears,
sounds quite horrible (Mzzzz <ick>).
Suzi
Martin Wisse
Wilkinson) wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:11:14 +0100, Kincaid <Kin...@kincaid.org.uk>
>wrote:
>>In article <3B2F63...@ups.edu>,
>>I find that deciding what to call female friends is also tricky. I'm 25,
>>and most of my female friends are are of a similar age and thus 'women'.
>>But that makes them sound really old, as 'men and women' were always
>>grown-ups and thus a lot older than me. 'Girls' also sounds a bit odd and
>>somewhat belittling (I mean, they are obviously not girls anymore).
>>Thus, I tend to use the somewhat archaic 'ladies', as it sounds nice and
>>polite.
>
>When I was at a single-sex high school (female, of course), we used to
>use 'guys' all the time for ourselves.
Said school being in Minnesota, perhaps?
Martin Wisse
--
Pictures from CCDE, meet reports and more:
<http://www.ad-astra.demon.nl/afp/>
the_peanut_gallery
> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
> woman.
Oh dear. I hope you've got proof (other than empiric of your immediate
acquaintances) to back that up.
IME, when a mature woman is being referred to as a "girl" in English,
there are usually minimising, derogatory overtones.
In French, you may be understood as calling her either "daughter" or
"prostitute". Or again, you're being patronising and are asking for a
thick ear (special rates on request. No coach parties)
Definitely slippery ground, there...
Promising-looking argument this. Will it beat the quite breathtakingly
convoluted Men's Trousers thread?
Suspense!
--
Rose Humphrey
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:28:10 +0100):
> Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
>>> called woman.
>> Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks.
We-ell..... I think he may have meant that "If you call them 'woman',
they'll want to be called 'girl', and vice versa", which is a
perfectly understandable despairing wail at the illogic of the
politically correct swamp we all have to wade through daily.
>> This is a preference I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to
>> be patronised, thank you. In fact, it is a preference common to
>> almost all women of my acquaintance.
> How old are they (in general / on average)? I'd refer to "a night
> out with the girls" if I were to go out in all-female company, and
> I also refer to similar nights out for himself as "a night out with
> the lads". I tend to use the term "Chaps" as a fairly unisex
> catch-all though, and have been known to use the term
> "Chapesses". As someone well the wrong side of 30, I find I do tend
> to prefer "girls" to "women" (as somehow "women" seems so, I dunno,
> cold and impersonal). And I tend to use "girls" to cover all
> females from 1 through to 90.
I don't _really_ care which we're called. Some people use the term
"girl" in a very insulting and disparaging way, yes, but I use the
term myself about myself. Some people I know find it offensive no
matter how it is used.
> > Others are welcome to prefer whatever address they choose. It's
> > like... I prefer Ms, as do most women of my acquaintance. Some
> > prefer Miss or Mrs, and they're welcome to it.
>
> I suspect this is very much an age thing too - most of _my_ female
> acquaintances of around my age (or older) prefer Miss or Mrs and regard
> the generic "Ms" as, frankly, rude (as in a "they couldn't be bothered
> to check my name out properly" type sense)... it also, to my ears,
> sounds quite horrible (Mzzzz <ick>).
I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
Ailbhe
Melody S-K
Ailbhe Leamy <ail...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:slrn9j4cnf...@loquacious.ossifrage.net...
> Suzi <Su...@lspace.org> wrote
> (on Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:28:10 +0100):
> > Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > > "Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
>
> >>> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
> >>> called woman.
>
> >> Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks.
>
> We-ell..... I think he may have meant that "If you call them
'woman',
> they'll want to be called 'girl', and vice versa", which is a
> perfectly understandable despairing wail at the illogic of the
> politically correct swamp we all have to wade through daily.
A agree entirely , I think this has been taken somewhat out of context
.
Snippage
> I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
NOOOOO!
I like being a Mrs :o) I don't want to be a Mister ta very much ...you
can be a mister if you choose but leave me out of it.
Melody - Mrs Shanahan-Kluth ...a girl to some , woman to others and
wench to one
--
Ku Klux Gran
Melody S-K
the_peanut_gallery <the_peanu...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.4...@wanadoo.fr...
> On 21-juin-01, Eelco gave us food for thought:
>
> > In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
called
> > woman.
>
> Oh dear. I hope you've got proof (other than empiric of your
immediate
> acquaintances) to back that up.
Well *I* prefer girl to woman for one!
>
> IME, when a mature woman is being referred to as a "girl" in
English,
> there are usually minimising, derogatory overtones.
Depends who is saying it. When hubby calls me his girl I get a thrill.
>
> In French, you may be understood as calling her either "daughter" or
> "prostitute". Or again, you're being patronising and are asking for
a
> thick ear (special rates on request. No coach parties)
But we are talking English here ...aren't we?
>
> Definitely slippery ground, there...
Only if someone puts oil on the slope
>
> Promising-looking argument this. Will it beat the quite
breathtakingly
> convoluted Men's Trousers thread?
Most probably <g>
Rand Knight
Ailbhe Leamy wrote:
>
<snip>
> I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
>
> OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
> title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
> made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
>
> I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
>
Or prehaps do away with titles altogether?
And while we're at it, why not get rid of those genders (his, hers) that
get the PC people who write documentation in a tis.
And then get rid of gender specific names and assign ourselves all
numbers. Certain numbers will have to be excluded for a while eg. 13,
666, 31337.
And then we'll all wear non-gender specfic masks and long flowing robes
so that noone will be tempted to use the forbidden words.
And then institute a policy of cloning so that icky gender specific sex
doesn't get in the way of procreation.
And then once that is achieved, we can genetically engineer ourselves so
that we don't have anymore gender differences which cause such
discrimination problems.
Then we will all relax in the safe knowledge that its will no longer be
concerned about tits and bits.
Rand
Linz
> I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
>
> OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
> title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
> made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
>
> I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
The thing is, all three words, Miss, Mrs and Ms, are derived from
Mistress. One word has come to mean an unmarried woman, a married
woman, and a woman who doesn't think her marital status matters at
all, purely by means of its abbreviations.
I have no idea what this has to do with the subject, I just thought
I'd throw it in.
--
Nanny's philosophy of life was to do what seemed like a good idea at
the time, and do it as hard as possible. It had never let her down.
Maskerade, T.Pratchett
Yannick Larvor
> IME, when a mature woman is being referred to as a "girl" in English,
> there are usually minimising, derogatory overtones.
If I understood correctly the diverse reactions in the thread, it seems
to be quite context sensitive.
> In French, you may be understood as calling her either "daughter" or
> "prostitute". Or again, you're being patronising and are asking for a
> thick ear (special rates on request. No coach parties)
Er... Maybe I should remember to bring a helmet and stick to English at
next meet, then (better safe twice than sorry :-). You really need some
context to have the despicable interpretation of 'fille'. And when used
as a group handle, 'les filles' can cover about any body of women, with
no bad meaning attached. You should ask your daughters, ma fi<OUCH[1]>.
Really, it's a matter of context.
[1] Here, it is patronising. I think I'll bring an armour, too :-).
--
Yannick
Beth Winter
> <snip>
> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
> woman.
Now this was a stick in the antheap, to use a Polish idiom ^_^
Generally, I tend to go for girl-equivalent in Polish (I'll be 19 in less
than a month) and 'lady' in English :-) For some reason, I've been called
'Lady Beth' on several Polish groups as well... /me tries to work out what
English title-equivalent the particular mixture of aristocracy, illegitimacy,
connections, political sympathies and interesting causes of death in her
family tree comes to...
--
Beth Winter, Sister of Vetinari
The Discworld Compendium <http://go.to/thediscworldcompendium>
"To absent friends, lost loves, old gods and the season of mists."
-- Neil Gaiman
Miq
>I'd refer to "a night out
>with the girls" if I were to go out in all-female company, and I also
>refer to similar nights out for himself as "a night out with the lads".
Yeee-eess, but only because 'a night out with the men' sounds just
*sooo* Village People. *Individually* I certainly wouldn't identify
myself as a 'lad', nor would any of my friends that I can think of. And
I would object to being called a 'boy' by most people...
Similarly, 'a night out with the women' sounds like you're all off to a
meeting with Germaine Greer or something. Girls and lads are juvenile
ideas, who like to play; men and women are mature, and spend their time
on Serious things, like wibbling on Usenet...
>I tend to use the term "Chaps" as a fairly unisex catch-all though, and
>have been known to use the term "Chapesses".
I use 'guys' like that, which gets some odd looks sometimes. 'Folks'
seems pretty safe, though.
--
Miq
Deadlines looming? Teachers to impress? No time to read? Never fear!
The Discworld Homework Files: http://www.kew1.demon.co.uk/homework.html
Miq
>> non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
>
>NOOOOO!
>
>I like being a Mrs :o) I don't want to be a Mister ta very much ...you
>can be a mister if you choose but leave me out of it.
And here is the problem. If there's going to be one title for everyone,
then it has to be *one* title for everyone, not a choice of titles for
everyone.
Otherwise, people will just make assumptions about you on the basis of
the title you choose. So you're back to square one (or at best square
two, since now at least you have *some* say in the assumptions that get
made about you).
-
Citizen Miq
David Jensen
ail...@lspace.org (Ailbhe Leamy) wrote in
<slrn9j4cnf...@loquacious.ossifrage.net>:
>OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
>title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
>made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
Yes, ma'am. I don't think you need to be so hard on Ms., though. Think
of it as an adaptation of a regional honorific -- the folks who use
y'all, also have been calling women Miz [...] for about as long. Only
the modern spelling is bizarre.
>
>I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
>non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
Well, there was Mistress, but it seems to have been leading a double
life.
MP
<snip>
> Promising-looking argument this. Will it beat the quite breathtakingly
> convoluted Men's Trousers thread?
>
> Suspense!
Not for your post, which stayed quite happily on-topic (pretty much). On
the other hand, this post is totally off topic, and I might just subvert
it to mention that my phone company has decided, in its infinite wisdom,
to cut me off, presumably for not paying the bills that they didn't send
me despite extensive requests. Therefore, I'll probably not be around as
much until I get home on Sunday.
I'm sure you'll notice a wonderful improvement in the tone of the
group...
MP (in an absolutely foul mood because of aforesaid incident)
Johanna
"Melody S-K" <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote in message
>
<snip>
> I like being a Mrs :o) I don't want to be a Mister ta very much
...you
> can be a mister if you choose but leave me out of it.
>
> Melody - Mrs Shanahan-Kluth ...a girl to some , woman to others
and
> wench to one
I am happy to be Mrs Kennedy, what I do object to is being Mrs
Paul Kennedy.
My name is Johanna, just because I am married doesn't change
that.
Johanna
Kincaid
MP <m...@unseenuniversity.org> wrote:
> mention that my phone company has decided, in its infinite wisdom, to
> cut me off, presumably for not paying the bills that they didn't send me
> aforesaid incident)
Phone OFTEL and seriously complain
--
Kincaid Labs
Tampering in God's domain since 1975
duncansmum
> Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:9gsrto$m9n$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
> >
> > "Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
> >
> > > In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
> > > called woman.
> >
> > Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks. This is a
> > preference I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to be
> > patronised, thank you. In fact, it is a preference common to
> > almost all women of my acquaintance.
>
> How old are they (in general / on average)? I'd refer to "a night out
> with the girls" if I were to go out in all-female company, and I also
> refer to similar nights out for himself as "a night out with the lads".
> I tend to use the term "Chaps" as a fairly unisex catch-all though, and
> have been known to use the term "Chapesses". As someone well the wrong
> side of 30, I find I do tend to prefer "girls" to "women" (as somehow
> "women" seems so, I dunno, cold and impersonal). And I tend to use
> "girls" to cover all females from 1 through to 90.
Yes, I too prefer "girls night out" etc. I always refer to myself and my
friends as "girls" when speaking of us in a collective manner.
> > Others are welcome to prefer whatever address they choose. It's
> > like... I prefer Ms, as do most women of my acquaintance. Some
> > prefer Miss or Mrs, and they're welcome to it.
>
> I suspect this is very much an age thing too - most of _my_ female
> acquaintances of around my age (or older) prefer Miss or Mrs and regard
> the generic "Ms" as, frankly, rude (as in a "they couldn't be bothered
> to check my name out properly" type sense)... it also, to my ears,
> sounds quite horrible (Mzzzz <ick>).
For what maybe the first time ever I'm going to disagree with you Suzi, as
I much prefer Ms. I'm too old and too wise (well some days!) to feel
comfortable with "Miss", but I'm not happy being referred to as "Mrs" I no
longer feel it's right since I'm no longer married, nor have I ever really
liked the way women have to change from"Miss" to "Mrs" due to marriage
(regardless of the surname change thingy) - to me it has over-tones of
being a possession rather than a person in your own right!
--
Ookey
Never far away...
Eelco Giele
> "Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
>> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
>> woman.
> Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks.
Why insulting? Do you really need some kind of outside approval of
how old you are, that you insist on being called a woman? Do you
really think that the way people look at you changes if they have to
call you a woman?
How immature.
> This is a preference
> I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to be patronised, thank you.
No patronisation. Of course, "girl" can be used in a patronising,
condescending way. But then, so can woman. I was of course referring
to a neutral comment. I have found that I have a far better life if I
don't judge every word other people use on their possible negative
meanings. The main reason being that most people do not mean anything
negative with it.
> In
> fact, it is a preference common to almost all women of my acquaintance.
Which are all of the same age, yes?
> Others are welcome to prefer whatever address they choose. It's like... I
> prefer Ms, as do most women of my acquaintance. Some prefer Miss or Mrs, and
> they're welcome to it.
Boy, man, call me whatever you like. (People who call me 'mister' in
any other situation then a very formal one will be immediatly
corrected to call me by my first name.) And, on the very rare
occasions that I show gentleman like behaviour, you may call me a
gentleman, and I will thank you for the compliment.
Greetings, Eelco
Eelco Giele
> Eelco Giele wrote:
>> <snip>
>> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
>> woman.
> Now this was a stick in the antheap, to use a Polish idiom ^_^
It is nice to see that I haven't lost my knack for those :)
> Generally, I tend to go for girl-equivalent in Polish (I'll be 19 in less
> than a month) and 'lady' in English :-)
Ah, but see my other comment where I talk about 'gentleman'. Lady is
a title to be deserved by lady like behaviour.
<fx: picks up book about etiquette.>
Anyone cares for a quiz about hot to behave during dinner? (For some
unclear reasons I know those rules better then the others :) ) Ladies
as well as gentlemen are invited. The only small problem might be
that etiquette is also determined by nationality. My etiquette is
dutch and might differ from english and other countries' etiquette.
Greetings, Eelco
Melusine
<J...@mcnicholl.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I am happy to be Mrs Kennedy, what I do object to is being Mrs
>Paul Kennedy.
>My name is Johanna, just because I am married doesn't change
>that.
All my sisters decided to stay Delaney when they got
married. They're all Miss or Ms Delaney. However, they're
also perfectly understanding when invitations arrive to Mr &
Mrs (insert husband's name here) from work or some
acquaintance of their husband's who they don't know and who
doesn't know about their preferences for their names.
Similarly, of course, their husbands are used to being
addressed as Mr Delaney when the tables are turned.
FWIW, Gideon hasn't, when salesmen phone the house.
The only thing I *do* object to is when people blatantly
ignore your personal preferences - either addressing a
married woman by her husband's name when they know she
prefers her maiden name - or by calling me "Mrs" when they
have "Ms" on a screen in front of them. But then again there
are days when I'd settle for being able to pronounce my
surname correctly - half of the UK seems to believe that
"Delaney" is pronounced "Del-AH-ney".
Mel
--
\\\\ "You do it, I can't be buggered"|
\\\\\__, clanw...@bigfoot.com - Defending the|
\\\\\^c rights of apathetic hedgehogs since '00|
esmi
wrote
>> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be
>> called woman.
>Oh dear. I hope you've got proof (other than empiric of your
>immediate acquaintances) to back that up.
Well Eelco did say "in general" which seems a reasonable way of
suggesting that he was referring to his own experiences. After all, it
would be impossible to define absolutely something which is so variable
from person to person. Let's face it - even the relatively small sample
of the female persuausion that is found in AFP would be highly unlikely
to make up it's collective mind as to which is preferable. It's simply
too subjective.
>IME, when a mature woman is being referred to as a "girl" in
>English, there are usually minimising, derogatory overtones.
Hmmm...I do feel that is very dependant on the person who is using the
term. There are those who can create similar derogatory impressions
with the words "woman" or "female". *shrug*
>In French, you may be understood as calling her either "daughter" or
>"prostitute". Or again, you're being patronising and are asking for
>a thick ear (special rates on request. No coach parties)
Fille != girl. There are always problems when literally translating
from one language to another. This is just one example. I'm sure there
are plenty more. I guess it's a warning to be sure of any cultural
undertones within a language before trying out out that little foreign
language dictionary you picked up just before holiday. Or hope that the
locals appreciate the effort you making and don't take offence at any
cultural slip-ups.
>Definitely slippery ground, there...
Not necessarily. It all depends on how much credence you place on the
perceived attitudes of others compared to your own self-esteem.
>Promising-looking argument this. Will it beat the quite
>breathtakingly convoluted Men's Trousers thread?
Wouldn't convoluted men's trousers be terribly painful
>Suspense!
Suspenders!
esmi
--
* "2002: A Discworld Odyssey" * The Discworld Convention *
* Hanover International, Hinckley * August 16th-19th, 2002 *
* Web: http://www.dwcon.org/ * Email: in...@dwcon.org *
Denis Hackney
> I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> non-marital-status-specific title.
Well, if you really want one, and are willing to work hard to get it,
there's always Dr.... :)
Briefly,
Denis.
--
Denis Hackney - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~dhackney/
I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me
to see me looking back at you...
Siobhan
"Melody S-K" <Mel...@Wibble.org> wrote:
> Melody - Mrs Shanahan-Kluth ...a girl to some , woman to others and
> wench to one
*lol* I like that.
Siobhan, shamelessly OLFing.
Siobhan
"Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote in message
news:9gtul8$nhv$1...@library.lspace.org...
> Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "Eelco Giele" <ee...@espace.cx> wrote:
>
> >> In general: Women prefer to be called girl, girls prefer to be called
> >> woman.
>
> > Bollocks. Complete, unmitigated, insulting bollocks.
>
> Why insulting? Do you really need some kind of outside approval of
> how old you are, that you insist on being called a woman? Do you
> really think that the way people look at you changes if they have to
> call you a woman?
> How immature.
Oh, come on. Girl is a child, woman is an adult. Of *course* people's view
changes if you prefer to be called woman over girl. Children are relatively
powerless, sexless (I realise this isn't accurate, but children aren't meant
to be sexual beings in our society), etc. Names are important. If you don't
feel so, fine. But I do, and anyone who calls me girl had better be a
friend. I apologise if my reaction seems strong, but I *don't* apologise for
my opinion.
> > This is a preference
> > I've picked up from my mother. I prefer not to be patronised, thank you.
>
> No patronisation. Of course, "girl" can be used in a patronising,
> condescending way. But then, so can woman.
Yes, and it usually is. I also get very upset by people using the word
"woman" as an insult.
I was of course referring
> to a neutral comment. I have found that I have a far better life if I
> don't judge every word other people use on their possible negative
> meanings. The main reason being that most people do not mean anything
> negative with it.
They might not *think* they do...but... *g*
> > In
> > fact, it is a preference common to almost all women of my acquaintance.
>
> Which are all of the same age, yes?
Nope. I have friends ranging from teens to women in their 60s. It comes of
singing in choirs. *shrug* Multi-age environments.
> Boy, man, call me whatever you like. (People who call me 'mister' in
> any other situation then a very formal one will be immediatly
> corrected to call me by my first name.) And, on the very rare
> occasions that I show gentleman like behaviour, you may call me a
> gentleman, and I will thank you for the compliment.
Very well, sir. *g*
Siobhan
Siobhan
accept other people don't mind, or prefer it. They are quite entitled to.
I'm going to ignore this thread now, not because I dislike any of you, or
don't like discussion, but because it is one of my "hot buttons" and no
doubt I'll get more vehement than I mean, and regret it.
Thanks for the discussion though!
Siobhan
Eelco Giele
> Ailbhe Leamy wrote:
>> I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
>> non-marital-status-specific title.
> Well, if you really want one, and are willing to work hard to get it,
> there's always Dr.... :)
Well, maybe in some countries. I don't know about english (yes, very
usefull in this discussion) but in germany you are adressed (in
speach, I am not talking about in writing) as "herr/frau doctor".
which is still not gender neutral, but at least you get the doctor
in. In dutch you are just "meneer/mevrouw". The only person adressed
by his/her title in a gender neutral way in dutch is a professor .
Greetings, Eelco
em
Eelco Giele wrote:
>
> Beth Winter <ren...@astercity.net> wrote:
<snip what to call a female of the species>
> > Generally, I tend to go for girl-equivalent in Polish (I'll be 19 in less
> > than a month) and 'lady' in English :-)
>
> Ah, but see my other comment where I talk about 'gentleman'. Lady is
> a title to be deserved by lady like behaviour.
>
Quite. This I thoroughly agree with. I am a strong, free-thinking,
earthy and impatient woman. However, I am not a lady. I am far too
happy to roll around in muck and get filthy dirty (actually and also
metaphorically) to ever be considered a lady. I may exibit ladylike
behaviour ever so often, but I normally don't as it seems to be very
uncomfortable whenever I try it. :)
FWIW, you can call me what you want as long as you treat me with the
courtesy that I'll treat you with. :) To take a specific example in
my local pub there is a man that calls me a girl all the time but he
is my friend and I can hear the respect he holds me in, in his voice
There is another man in there who I know slightly and who isn't some
one who I would chose to talk to generally. When he calls me a girl
my hackles instantly rise and it is because the derogatory tones are
there. Not good. The word isn't particularly important, the way it
is used is. Now that was as clear as mud wasn't it? :)
> <fx: picks up book about etiquette.>
>
> Anyone cares for a quiz about hot to behave during dinner? (For some
> unclear reasons I know those rules better then the others :) ) Ladies
> as well as gentlemen are invited. The only small problem might be
> that etiquette is also determined by nationality. My etiquette is
> dutch and might differ from english and other countries' etiquette.
However, I did go to one of those schools, so let's go for it. :)
--
em
Suzi
news:3b327670$1@pooley...
>
[Snip]
> I am happy to be Mrs Kennedy, what I do object to is being Mrs
> Paul Kennedy.
> My name is Johanna, just because I am married doesn't change
> that.
I'm trying to remember if that has ever happened to me... and I'm
failing miserably. Maybe it's just that everyone who knows anything
about me at all realises what they'll get if they tried to call me Gid.
Suzi
Suzi
In England if you have a title higher than Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms then that
takes precedence... so if you're a Dr. then that's your title (male or
female), etc. The only exception I've ever seen to this was in a medical
practice of husband and wife with the same initial, who were referred to
as "Dr. Mr." and "Dr. Mrs." to avoid confusion :-)
Suzi
Meg Thornton
<thelady...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Sounds like it was a lot of fun! Now I am really feeling isolated
>out here in Fourecks :o( So when are we all getting together out
>here guys? Huh? Puhleese...?
Which city are you in? And when do you plan to host one <grin>?
Meg (in Canberra, and out of the hosting hustings for now - moving
house)
--
//// (No, I'm a bloody echidna!)
_.///// Meg Thornton (mag...@megabitch.tm)
~\_///// Pardo's Postulate: anything you like is either
illegal, immoral, or fattening.
Richard Bos
> So someone claimed the 'ideal' size of female breasts was to be measured
> as "handful".
Casanova, ISTR reading.
Richard
Jenny Radcliffe
> Suzi <Su...@lspace.org> wrote
> > Siobhan <sio...@wantsnospam.invalid> wrote in message
> > > It's like... I prefer Ms, as do most women of my
> > > acquaintance. Some prefer Miss or Mrs, and they're welcome to
> > > it.
> > female acquaintances of around my age (or older) prefer Miss
> > or Mrs and regard the generic "Ms" as, frankly, rude (as in a
> > "they couldn't be bothered to check my name out properly" type
> > sense)... it also, to my ears, sounds quite horrible (Mzzzz
> > <ick>).
> title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
> made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
Yay!
You mean I'm NOT THE ONLY ONE?!?!?!?
I thought it was just me!
http://www.dur.ac.uk/j.s.radcliffe/Myself.html
I've been saying this for a while, but I thought it was just me.
<hugs Ailbhe enthusiastically>
--
"You can straddle the leg" - Tom Calver
Richard Bos
> Generally, I tend to go for girl-equivalent in Polish (I'll be 19 in less
> than a month) and 'lady' in English :-) For some reason, I've been called
> 'Lady Beth' on several Polish groups as well...
Maybe there's a silent "Mac" in there somewhere...
Is this a dagger I see before me, the point towards my coat?
Richard
IPFJ Maessen
But you could always insist on that, you know. There isn't a law, AFAIK,
that forbids you to call yourself a professor. Come to that, I thought
that when you are adressed by title, you are adressed as Drs, or Dr, or
Ing, or Ir, whichever is your title, without the meneer/mevrouw in front
if it.
I could be wrong, of course.
Iris
the_peanut_gallery
Joseph Thompson
> Ailbhe Leamy wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> > I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
> >
> > OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
> > title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
> > made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
> >
> >
>
> Or prehaps do away with titles altogether?
>
> And while we're at it, why not get rid of those genders (his, hers) that
> get the PC people who write documentation in a tis.
>
> And then get rid of gender specific names and assign ourselves all
> numbers. Certain numbers will have to be excluded for a while eg. 13,
> 666, 31337.
>
> And then we'll all wear non-gender specfic masks and long flowing robes
> so that noone will be tempted to use the forbidden words.
Why not just all wear oversized iron helmets, false beards, chainmail,
and leather and not speak of anything but gold? :) I think the
dwarves may have something there . . .
Even though, especially in the later books, Pterry has had a habit of
giving them gender-specific personal names, which would imply that
they actually do know what sex other dwarves are, but just choose to
ignore it . . .
And personally, I call everybody, even females, "dude" . . . Generally
solves the problem . . . :)
J"C"T
Johanna
"Suzi" <Su...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:9guvdk$rhf$2...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk...
Kennedy, when the sender is more familar with Paul, but it is
irritating when my mother and my sisters address things to Mrs P.
Kennedy.
There have been occassions when Paul has been called McNicholl,
which doesn't bother him in the slightest. However I think he
does get a bit cross when people call him Ian.
Both my brothers-in-law are Ian. My relatives know that there
are two Ians and a Paul, they don't see us often enough to know
which one is which, so to be on the safe side they call them all
Ian.
Johanna
Kincaid
Melusine <ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> wrote:
> But then again there are days when I'd settle for being able to
> pronounce my surname correctly - half of the UK seems to believe that
> "Delaney" is pronounced "Del-AH-ney".
So how is is it pronounced, apart from Fanshaw/Chumley?
Melody S-K
the_peanut_gallery <the_peanu...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.5...@wanadoo.fr...
> On 21-juin-01, MP gave us food for thought:
Are we going hungry tonight then?
Melody
--
Ku Klux Gran
Linz
> In article <8o05jt0tph3k8qgqt...@4ax.com>,
> Melusine <ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > But then again there are days when I'd settle for being able to
> > pronounce my surname correctly - half of the UK seems to believe that
> > "Delaney" is pronounced "Del-AH-ney".
>
> So how is is it pronounced, apart from Fanshaw/Chumley?
At a guess, "De-lane-ee"
--
...the women on this newsgroup are all fwuffy ickle bunnies and
it is our duty as the hunter/gatherers of Usenet to protect them from
unsavoury characters and ungentlemanly types. (Steve, uly)
Julia Jones
<Su...@lspace.org> writes
>I suspect this is very much an age thing too - most of _my_ female
>acquaintances of around my age (or older) prefer Miss or Mrs and regard
>the generic "Ms" as, frankly, rude (as in a "they couldn't be bothered
>to check my name out properly" type sense)... it also, to my ears,
>sounds quite horrible (Mzzzz <ick>).
Whereas I prefer Ms, and am likely to regard Miss or Mrs as rude, in the
"they couldn't be bothered to check out my name properly" sense. On
occasions it's clearly deliberate rudeness in that they obviously have
no intention of using Ms even though they know that's what I use. I
found it a good deal more annoying than people assuming that I used my
husband's surname (I didn't for seven years, for reasons that had to do
with the practicalities of having my own identity rather than making a
statement that I had my own identity).
One of the odder things about it was that after I got married, and
didn't change my name for practical reasons which seemed perfectly
reasonable to my colleagues, some of them still assumed that I had
changed my title from Ms to Mrs. It appears that many in the UK assume
that Ms means "I'm single but don't want to admit it", something borne
out by the number of forms I've seen where the options for title are Mr,
Ms and Mrs, with no Miss.
--
Julia Jones
Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent
Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5
http://www.smof.com/redemption
MP
>
> the_peanut_gallery <the_peanu...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.5...@wanadoo.fr...
> > On 21-juin-01, MP gave us food for thought:
>
> Are we going hungry tonight then?
Evidentally a reference to my wonderful contribution to the world of
pastas... :-}
MP
Katherine F.
>
>I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
>
>OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
>title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
>made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
>
>I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
>non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
Or we could follow Ambrose Bierce, and go for "Mush",
abbreviated to Mh....
All joking aside, I would propose that if we do want a
non-gender-specific title it ought to be a new one and not an
extension of an old one which *was* gender-specific. That'll just lead
to a whole bunch of oogy complications that the world doesn't need.
How about...ooh, this is a tough one...though you know, it's just an
honorific, and Irish does fine without honorifics (beyond "a dhuine
uasal" which means something like "you good person" IIRC). Of course,
a lot of the time people just say "mister" when they're speaking Irish
anyway...
--
Katherine F. Diary: http://puritybrown.diaryland.com/
"You're a beautiful human being. Now go and be beautiful
somewhere else!" -- my friend Dee, in conversation
Katherine F.
wrote:
>And personally, I call everybody, even females, "dude" . . . Generally
>solves the problem . . . :)
I have a friend who calls people "person"[1]. Of course, she's
like a squirrel on speed at the best of times, so possibly not
somebody most people woudl like to imitate...
[1] She met me when I was waiting for a bus one day and cried out
enthusiastically, "Hello, person!"
Mary MacTavish Mary MacTavish
>>
>>I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
>>
>>OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
>>title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
>>made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
>>
>>I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
>>non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
I like "Mary." It's not very generic, but it works for me.
`
Mary MacTavish
http://www.prado.com/~iris
"I like you guys who want smaller government - you
know, just small enough to fit in our bedrooms."
Josh to Congressman Skinner, The West Wing
Stig M. Valstad
Dobrii djen, tovarish!
>I hate Miss, Mrs _and_ Ms.
>
>OK, I'm picky. I want a title (if I have to have a gender-denoting
>title) which doesn't indicate my marital status and isn't a
>made-up-abbreviation of a nonexistent word.
>
>I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
>non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
But Mister is currently gender-specific, and changing that
will take a wery long time. How about comrade?
In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
--
Stig M. Valstad
PREJUDICE, n. A vagrant opinion without visible means of support.
Ambrose Bierce
Andy Davison
<9guvdl$rhf$4...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk>, "Suzi" <Su...@lspace.org> wrote:
>In England if you have a title higher than Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms then that
>takes precedence... so if you're a Dr. then that's your title (male or
>female), etc. The only exception I've ever seen to this was in a medical
>practice of husband and wife with the same initial, who were referred to
>as "Dr. Mr." and "Dr. Mrs." to avoid confusion :-)
Apropos of nothing, I seem to remember looking up the medical register
one day in the local library and there was only one Dr Death (spelt
De'Ath of course). I was really disappointed about that.
Back to the what to call a female bit, I have found the one to avoid
is fuzzy-face. :)
Eelco Giele
> On 22 Jun 2001, Eelco Giele wrote:
>> Well, maybe in some countries. I don't know about english (yes, very
>> usefull in this discussion) but in germany you are adressed (in
>> speach, I am not talking about in writing) as "herr/frau doctor".
>> which is still not gender neutral, but at least you get the doctor
>> in. In dutch you are just "meneer/mevrouw". The only person adressed
>> by his/her title in a gender neutral way in dutch is a professor .
> But you could always insist on that, you know. There isn't a law, AFAIK,
> that forbids you to call yourself a professor.
Wasn't this corrected just a few yeards ago? I am not entirely sure
but I seem to remember there was some talk about it.
> Come to that, I thought
> that when you are adressed by title, you are adressed as Drs, or Dr, or
> Ing, or Ir, whichever is your title, without the meneer/mevrouw in front
> if it.
Nope, you don not adress people by their title. On paper they have
their own way to be addressed, but in normal speach you do not use
the title. Oh, the exception being a PhD thesis defence[1] where you
use part of the addressing used in letters.[2]
Greetings, Eelco
[1] Which is different from that in other countries
[2] 'Hooggeleerde/zeergeleerde promotor/opponent', with 'hooggeleerde'
for professors and 'zeergeleerde' voor dr.. 'opponent' voor anyone
opposing you, 'promotor' for those who are those repsonsible for you.
Eric Jarvis
> Ailbhe Leamy wrote:
> > I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> > non-marital-status-specific title.
>
> there's always Dr.... :)
>
yep
but we don't all have to work hard for it
--
DR (David Richard) Jarvis aka
eric - afprelationships in headers
"money can't buy you love, but sometimes dinner
is much more important"
the_peanut_gallery
> the_peanut_gallery <the_peanu...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.5...@wanadoo.fr...
>> On 21-juin-01, MP gave us food for thought:
> Are we going hungry tonight then?
D*mn! I wondered why I had to hit "post" twice. It was a rerun of that
well-known B-movie "Usenet Ate My Message".
You'll have to tighten your belts. I'm afraid my minor masterpiece is
gone, gone... and never called me mother.
<sob>
Actually, I was sympathising with MP for his lost phone line.
--
Rose Humphrey
Eric Jarvis
> the peanut gallery wrote:
>
> > IME, when a mature woman is being referred to as a "girl" in English,
> > there are usually minimising, derogatory overtones.
>
> If I understood correctly the diverse reactions in the thread, it seems
> to be quite context sensitive.
>
and I think that nails it in one
it is context that decides what is appropriate...and one has to be
sensitive to find the context
catch all rules aren't going to work because the same person in what
seems like the same situation will one day prefer woman and another
day will prefer girl, or lady, or whatever
sometimes I like to be referred to as a man, sometimes a boy,
sometimes even a lad...I'm erratic about this...I don't get upset if
somebody gets it wrong at first...but if somebody insists on using a
term that doesn't feel right even after I've hinted that I don't
like it, then that is insensitive, disrespectful and impolite
so it's all a matter of "reading the road" really
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Linz
> In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
Herr og fru just aren't used any more? Really? That's a serious
question, I really didn't know that.
Melusine
<li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>> So how is is it pronounced, apart from Fanshaw/Chumley?
>
>At a guess, "De-lane-ee"
Yep.
Mel
--
\\\\ "You do it, I can't be buggered"|
\\\\\__, clanw...@bigfoot.com - Defending the|
\\\\\^c rights of apathetic hedgehogs since '00|
Quantum Moth
<if.you'd.like.to.emai...@ask.me.on.the.newsgroup.first.i.us
ually.don't.get.into.email.discussions.about.my.usenet.posts> (oooh,
snappy) said...
> >On 21 Jun 2001 17:43:58 GMT, ail...@lspace.org (Ailbhe Leamy) wrote:
>
> >>I'd prefer a respectful, non-gender-specific,
> >>non-marital-status-specific title. Let's claim Mister for everyone.
>
> I like "Mary." It's not very generic, but it works for me.
>
<tries it out in his head>
"Accepting the Nobel Prize for Chemistry[1]... Mary Thom Willis!"
Would that abbreviate to My? Or Ma? Or not at all? I mean, there's
nothing to say it *has* to abbreviate, but I'd like to know. Y'know,
just so's I can tell the engravers.
[1]Hey, it's my fantasy.
--
thom willis - sc...@mostly.com - Corinne's Worse Half
**movie- http://afpmovie.orcon.net.nz**
"Some people are widely read. I'm thinly read."
- Eddie Izzard
T J Wilkinson
<jajon...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Whereas I prefer Ms, and am likely to regard Miss or Mrs as rude, in the
>"they couldn't be bothered to check out my name properly" sense. On
>occasions it's clearly deliberate rudeness in that they obviously have
>no intention of using Ms even though they know that's what I use. I
>found it a good deal more annoying than people assuming that I used my
>husband's surname (I didn't for seven years, for reasons that had to do
>with the practicalities of having my own identity rather than making a
>statement that I had my own identity).
Soon after we got married we got a parcel from one of his family
addressed to Mr & Mrs Andrew Ledbrooke! Ugh, I didn't think
beforehand that something like that would bother me, but it did,
partly because I knew these were middle-aged people, not ones in their
80s.
I didn't change my name, but I'm hardly upset if I get referred to by
someone as Tracy Ledbrooke, I just correct them if it's worth it[1]
and otherwise don't bother. But Mrs Andrew Ledbrooke? 19th century.
They didn't even care to ask his parents what I was called.
Tracy
[1] In other words, if I think there's a risk in the future there
might be mix-up due to them not knowing my correct name.
--
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tajwileb/
"People who have tried it, tell me that a clear conscience makes you very
happy and contented; but a full stomach does the business quite as well,
and is cheaper, and more easily obtained." - J. K. Jerome
T J Wilkinson
Wisse) wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:59:29 GMT, usene...@angelfire.com (T J
>Wilkinson) wrote:
>>When I was at a single-sex high school (female, of course), we used to
>>use 'guys' all the time for ourselves.
>
>Said school being in Minnesota, perhaps?
Um, definitely not. Not quite as far away as possible from Minnesota,
but certainly a different hemisphere. Wellington, NZ, to be precise.
Tracy
Bjorn Bjornsson
>On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:07:15 GMT, Stig M. Valstad wrote:
>
>> In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
>
>Herr og fru just aren't used any more? Really? That's a serious
>question, I really didn't know that.
We've more or less dumped Herra and Frú, except for elder people
as a very marked sign of respect
Oh. and the bishop and the President are *always* called
Herra...
Eqalitarian, thats us. In word at least.
Bjorn
--
Björn Friðgeir Björnsson http://www.undo.com/bjorn
My afp Photo Album is at http://www.undo.com/bjorn/photos/afp/
Kincaid
Melusine <ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:39:16 +0100, Linz
> <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
> >> So how is is it pronounced, apart from Fanshaw/Chumley?
> >
> >At a guess, "De-lane-ee"
> Yep.
Which is how I read your example of how it was mispronounced. The wonders
of trying to write phonetically in usenet :-)
pia
"Bjorn Bjornsson" <bj...@undo.com> wrote
> Oh. and the bishop and the President are *always* called
> Herra...
What, even Vigdis?
pia
pia
"T J Wilkinson" <usene...@angelfire.com> wrote
> Soon after we got married we got a parcel from one of his family
> addressed to Mr & Mrs Andrew Ledbrooke! Ugh, I didn't think
> beforehand that something like that would bother me, but it did,
I also once got upset for being misaddressed.
I was called sir.
pia
Bjorn Bjornsson
Yup...
No... i cannot tell a lie. She was Frú. Still is.
Not that she was married when she was Prez.
Stig M. Valstad
<li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:07:15 GMT, Stig M. Valstad wrote:
>
>> In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
>
>Herr og fru just aren't used any more? Really? That's a serious
>question, I really didn't know that.
Herr og fru may be used in very formal circumstances and
occasionally by older people, but I can't remember when I
last heard any such title used.
--
Stig M. Valstad
BELLADONNA, n. In Italian a beautiful lady; in English a deadly
poison. A striking example of the essential identity of the two
tongues. -- Ambrose Bierce
Nanny Ogg
writes:
>In England if you have a title higher than Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms then that
>takes precedence... so if you're a Dr. then that's your title (male or
>female), etc.
Unless you've reached a certain level in a surgical specialty, whereupon you go
back to either Mr or Miss. (Female surgeons can't use the title Mrs, though I
do seem to remember seeing Ms used a time or two.)
commented
Sarah
--
`If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you'll be
taller than everyone else.' Kipling and _I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue_
`Unfortunately Real Life lacks a decent tourist information service' Adrian
Morgan
Nanny Ogg
>Similarly, of course, their husbands are used to being
>addressed as Mr Delaney when the tables are turned.
>
>FWIW, Gideon hasn't, when salesmen phone the house.
I find one advantage of still having a different surname from my SO [1] is that
it makes it very easy to pick out salespeople when I answer the phone. When
anyone refers to me as `Mrs Vaughan', it's almost invariably a salesperson. I
can cut through a whole bunch of boring crap just by asking them this straight
away and getting to the `Sorry, we're not interested' bit.
[1] Not any sort of major principled decision. We're just not, at this point
in time, married.
All the best,
Melusine
wrote:
>In article <8o05jt0tph3k8qgqt...@4ax.com>, Melusine
><ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> writes:
>
>>Similarly, of course, their husbands are used to being
>>addressed as Mr Delaney when the tables are turned.
>>
>>FWIW, Gideon hasn't, when salesmen phone the house.
>
>I find one advantage of still having a different surname from my SO [1] is that
>it makes it very easy to pick out salespeople when I answer the phone. When
>anyone refers to me as `Mrs Vaughan', it's almost invariably a salesperson.
Well this was the point. G and I aren't married, and even if
we were, we'd probably have different names. But I'm the
householder, for lack of a better term, so bills, etc, are
in my name. Salemen of course, a) can't conceive of two
people with different names living together, and b) can't
understand a household with a man in it that has a woman
running and being responsible for the finances.
Vic
<swhi...@aol.com> writes
>In article <8o05jt0tph3k8qgqt...@4ax.com>, Melusine
><ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> writes:
>
>>Similarly, of course, their husbands are used to being
>>addressed as Mr Delaney when the tables are turned.
>>
>>FWIW, Gideon hasn't, when salesmen phone the house.
>
>I find one advantage of still having a different surname from my SO [1] is that
>it makes it very easy to pick out salespeople when I answer the phone. When
>anyone refers to me as `Mrs Vaughan', it's almost invariably a salesperson. I
>can cut through a whole bunch of boring crap just by asking them this straight
>away and getting to the `Sorry, we're not interested' bit.
>
>[1] Not any sort of major principled decision. We're just not, at this point
>in time, married.
>
the name to that of her partner. He was still married, but they had
lived together for some time. She was an older (:)) lady, and was
embarrassed when a rep on holiday had announced "Mrs Hughes and Mrs
Stephens[1]" very loudly. So, although the couple would not be getting
married, she didn't want everybody else to think that they were not
"respectable"...
As for me, if the time ever comes, I don't know whether I'll keep my own
name, or take another's...
[1] not their real names, but you get what I mean...
--
Vicky
"The sea, if it teaches nothing else, does at least compel a submission to the
inevitable which resembles patience" Patrick O'Brien
Linz
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:30:27 +0100, Linz
> <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:07:15 GMT, Stig M. Valstad wrote:
> >
> >> In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
> >
> >Herr og fru just aren't used any more? Really? That's a serious
> >question, I really didn't know that.
>
> Herr og fru may be used in very formal circumstances and
> occasionally by older people, but I can't remember when I
> last heard any such title used.
There you go. Thanks for that, Stig, I've learnt something today.
Something useful. I learnt some totally useless stuff too.
Linz
> Linz <li...@REMOVETHISlindsayendell.co.uk> scribed:
>
> >On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:07:15 GMT, Stig M. Valstad wrote:
> >
> >> In Norwegian we simply do not use titles.
> >
> >Herr og fru just aren't used any more? Really? That's a serious
> >question, I really didn't know that.
>
> We've more or less dumped Herra and Frú, except for elder people
> as a very marked sign of respect
Ah, you crazy Icelanders! You preserve your language almost totally
unchanged for a thousand years, and then jettison bits!
Linz
> I find one advantage of still having a different surname from my SO [1] is that
> it makes it very easy to pick out salespeople when I answer the phone. When
> anyone refers to me as `Mrs Vaughan', it's almost invariably a salesperson. I
> can cut through a whole bunch of boring crap just by asking them this straight
> away and getting to the `Sorry, we're not interested' bit.
When I married, I kept my name. I'd had it rather longer than Matt had
had his, and neither of us saw any reason for either of us to change
our names. As well as filtering out cold callers it's made life easier
now that we're no longer together. I hasten to add that that wasn't a
consideration when we got married!