Of the making of many books there is no end....
Philip Pearson
If anyone is interested, and as an indication of what sparked off my
following question (information in, information out), the following
book was recommended to me as being quite humorous:
Eisenbach, Helen, Lesbianism made easy, Virago, 1997, £9.99
ISBN: 1860492797
And then my mind drifted on to how one would entitle an equivalent tome
for gay men. In other words, is there a short, unambiguous, word that
is the male equivalent (and part-of-speech identical) of lesbianism?
Phil
Frederick
In article <33FBA169...@yeahright.co.uk>, Matt Brown
<ma...@yeahright.co.uk> spurts
>Philip Pearson wrote:
>> In other words, is there a short, unambiguous, word that
>> is the male equivalent (and part-of-speech identical) of lesbianism?
>
>"gayism" isn't a proper word. We men don't get a noun, we just have the
>adjective "gay", but of course the grammatically dodgy "a gay" could
>mean a woman also. Tchuh! Typical.
>
Isn't Lesbian a derivative of Lesbos (Greek Island?). I guess the gay
equivalent would be Ibiza (?) hence Ibizism! :))
Of course I could be talking out of my arse here...
fred
WebPage: http://www.ialsosay.demon.co.uk/ E-mail: fr...@ialsosay.demon.co.uk
(For news, the Reply-To address has been altered to prevent junk-mail.)
"Somewhere, there's a place for us..." - West Side Story
Rupert Thompson
In article <memo.19970821...@mcy.demon.co.uk>, Mark Ynys-Mon
<URL:mailto:mcyatdemondotnet@> wrote:
> didn't they use to use Uranianism at some point (with the qualifier "female
> Uranianism" indicating it to be mainly male ascribed?)
Yes indeed. I *think* that's a very Victorian expression. IIRC it crops
up in _The Confessions of Aubrey Beardsley_ (which I've just tried to
find on my shelves and failed, so I can't tell you the author or
publisher), used of, amongst other people, Oscar Wilde.
[Sorry if I accidentally mailed this to you, Mark. My newsreader just
started behaving very oddly].
--
Rupert Thompson Queens' College, Cambridge, CB3 9ET, UK
http://rjet1.quns.cam.ac.uk/ (when my computer's on!)
JohnM
>End this separatist entymology!!! Let "lesbian" mean men too!!!!
I have said it many times : I am a Lesbian. My father's family actually
has its roots on the island of Lesbos. Apparently one of my ancestors
built one of these churches on top of hills that one sees on Greek
islands, and there's an inscription in his name. I have never seen it,
but I am assured it still stands. One of these days I will go to the
island and try to find it.
------------- Real Headlines of Our Time # 49 ------
"Ban on Soliciting Dead in Trotwood"
Matt Brown
Philip Pearson wrote:
> In other words, is there a short, unambiguous, word that
> is the male equivalent (and part-of-speech identical) of lesbianism?
Nope. "Lesbianism" is women-only whereas "homosexualism" ain't and
"gayism" isn't a proper word. We men don't get a noun, we just have the
adjective "gay", but of course the grammatically dodgy "a gay" could
mean a woman also. Tchuh! Typical.
I did see someone use a Greek-descended word recently, actually that
dodgy neo-fascist Ezekiel Krahlin ... He said something like "Lesbites
and <something>", using another Greek island's name, but I've forgotten
it ... so the part-of-speech equivalent of "mykonosism" might do if you
know the historical gay island he was referring to ... if you want to
use dodgy made-up Greek-descended words that is.
End this separatist entymology!!! Let "lesbian" mean men too!!!! Or
society will self-destruct!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Brown | Yeah Right
ma...@yeahright.co.uk | http://www.yeahright.co.uk
ma...@dircon.co.uk | [Currently only supports Navigator 3+
m.s....@wmin.ac.uk | and MSIE 3+ - pan-browser version soon!]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
i'd rather teach one blackbird how to sing
than teach ten thousands stars how not to dance
- e.e.cummings
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claire Parry
Rupert Thompson <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <memo.19970821...@mcy.demon.co.uk>, Mark Ynys-Mon
><URL:mailto:mcyatdemondotnet@> wrote:
>> didn't they use to use Uranianism at some point (with the qualifier "female
>> Uranianism" indicating it to be mainly male ascribed?)
>Yes indeed. I *think* that's a very Victorian expression. IIRC it crops
>up in _The Confessions of Aubrey Beardsley_ (which I've just tried to
>find on my shelves and failed, so I can't tell you the author or
>publisher), used of, amongst other people, Oscar Wilde.
I'm almost certain this is from Krafft-Ebing's _Psychopathia Sexualis_
(published 1886). I think the word in the original German was
"Urning" meaning male homosexual and the equivalent for a male
heterosexual was "Dionung" ("Dionysian"). The female equivalents were
Urningin and Dionungin and the terms for bisexuals were a combination
of the two - something like Uranodionung and Uranodionungin.
However, I don't have the book to hand and my German is extremely
rusty, so this may not be entirely accurate.
--
Enjoy a frog duet Claire Parry
and the relaxing sound ke...@amphibian.u-net.com
of frogs singing
alongside running water
Matt Brown
> > I did see someone use a Greek-descended word recently, actually that
> > dodgy neo-fascist Ezekiel Krahlin ... He said something like "Lesbites
> > and <something>", using another Greek island's name, but I've forgotten
> > it ... so the part-of-speech equivalent of "mykonosism" might do if you
> > know the historical gay island he was referring to ... if you want to
> > use dodgy made-up Greek-descended words that is.
>
> Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by him. Thracianism would only be
> as made up as Lesbianism.
Thanks, that was it, thracianism.
Ezekiel Krahlin? Just some boring homofascist who thinks the answer to
all our problems is for all gay people to go and live on an island
together somewhere and build artificial insemination centres and force
all the resulting testtube babies to be gay, and lots of other wonderful
ideas that are all liberally sprinkled with the word "exclusive".
Women's role in this pursuit is not really detailed, nor is what happens
to those gay people that are born in the rest of the world in the
meantime, or indeed what happens to those unfortunate enough to be born
straight in the new Holy Regime of Queerdom. He refers to bisexuals as
"phony gays" and straights as "right wing agents of oppression".
Jonathan D
In article <qEj5HGA2J$+zE...@scroll.demon.co.uk>, JohnM
<jo...@scroll.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: I have never seen it, but I am assured it still stands.
Poor Sweedie, and all this despite having spent *so* much time at the gym.
*hahahahahahahahaha*
And why did you leave last night's meetup so early? ;-)
--
===================== st...@xargonet.co.uk =====================
^
Remove 'x' from above address for E-Mail
David Ridgway
On 21.08.97 10:09, Rupert Thompson <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> ISTR seeing "Thracian" used to mean a gay man. I've never
> heard of Ezekiel Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by
> him.
When I frequented the soc.motss newsgroup and before I became
totally bored with all the bullshit on it, I recall the word *thracian*
being used quite often by this feller. Wierd guy too!
--
Stay Gold!
David Ridgway
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return mail to
tr...@gateway.softnet.co.uk
Opinions strictly my own -
Unless otherwise stated
====================
Ezekiel Krahlin
In article <N.083097....@n02i183.c2r5.pol.co.uk>,
tr...@gateway.softnet.co.uk (David Ridgway) wrote:
>
> On 21.08.97 10:09, Rupert Thompson <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > ISTR seeing "Thracian" used to mean a gay man. I've never
> > heard of Ezekiel Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by
> > him.
>
> When I frequented the soc.motss newsgroup and before I became
> totally bored with all the bullshit on it, I recall the word *thracian*
> being used quite often by this feller. Wierd guy too!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
writing free of charge (including translation into any
language)...under condition that it remain intact and
complete, including title and credit to the original author:
Ezekiel J. Krahlin.
ezek...@hotmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
REGARDING THE WORDS "HELLENE" & "THRACIAN"
copyright 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
Someone posted a private e-mail regarding my use of a new word
for "gay". Here is the account of my response, that others
may enjoy what was shared.
.........................................
At 08:05 PM 3/20/97, someone wrote:
>Please advise, when, by whom Thracian was first used
>to denote gay or queer. It sounds to me, a slight
>knowledge of classical Greek in background,
>like a sensible alternative for "gay" people or
>tendencies, which do not conform to the usual
>stereotypes - but who does, anyway...
Thank you for your interest. The idea to use "Thracian" as an
alternative for "gay male" came from one person, and one
person alone: me. I was thinking about a Greek word to mirror
the one we already have for "gay female", which is, of course,
"Lesbian". So I first tried to find a Greek island that
sounded good, but I didn't. I laughed when I thought of the
island Crete, for surely "Cretan" was not a good word. Then I
thought of different towns and cities...but alas, nothing
seemed right there, either. Then I decided to examine regions
of Greece, especially in the ancient eras.
During this research, I learned that ancient Macedonia--which
gave birth to our magnificent Alexander the Great--was
originally called "Thrace" by the ancient Greeks. (Later,
after calling it Macedonia, they called the region further
east, "Thrace".) Thrace and Macedonia both have a rich
cultural influence mixed with the great history of Hellenic
and Hellenistic cultures. So "Thracian" became the word I
decided to use...both for all GayFolk (males and females), as
well as for gay men specifically.
An Internet acquaintance, Fireweaver, suggested we use the
term "Hellenic" (instead of Thracian) for all GayFolk, and
reserve "Thracian" as a specific alternative to "gay men". I
found that to be an excellent idea, as it would eliminate the
chauvinist application of "gay" to define homosexual women and
men, as well as just the men. So now, we have this lovely
triad: Hellenic, Lesbian, Thracian. I have begun using
"Hellenic" and "Hellene" per Fireweaver's wonderful
suggestion.
>I would like to hear in more detail, what you
>mean by Thracian? Is it just another word
>to contrast with common usage - or do you
>mean something specific to certain "gay" tendencies?
I mean "Thracian" as common usage, not as something to
describe a particular type of gay person. However, this word
does instill a more dignified sense of the homosexual
male...with a hint of the warrior. And this, I do like.
To me--as well as to others--"gay" comes off as another
stereotype word that creates an expectation of homosexual men
to behave flighty like a butterfly. I now quote from my
recent essay, "New Declaration Of Independence":
---begin quote
...I propose the new label "Thracian" over "gay male," to
symbolize the new-found empowerment of the homophile community
in this century's closing decade. The word "gay" perpetuates
a stereotype of ourselves as flighty, emotional, and
frivolous...not to be taken seriously, as a citizen, as a
human being, or as anything else! (Surely, women have a
similar complaint against male chauvinists.)
"Lesbian" is a beautiful term for the homosexual female;
as its name comes from a Greek Island with a rich, classical
history. The region of Thrace also has a great history, and
likewise plays an honored role in Hellenic culture...hence I
coin the term "Thracian" for those who are commonly thought of
as "gay male"...."Hellenic" can be the general term for both
homophile women and men, who are sick of the belittling and
ineffectual descriptor, "gay".
---end quote
>Thank's for your consideration
Not at all. I encourage all Hellenes to come up with
additional, graceful and dignified words to add to our very
limited lexicon. Any society that reveres, respects, or loves
something...usually has many words as subtle variations on the
object of that love. And very few words are provided for those
things a society cares little about. I believe as we enter
the age of global village extended societies, that many doors
of diversity will open up for our Lesbian/Thracian
family...and it's only up to us to grasp the opportunities,
and reinvent ourselves in much greater and brighter ways.
-----finis
---
My web site kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://www.2xtreme.net/ezekielk/
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Ezekiel Krahlin
In article <33FDCF5E...@yeahright.co.uk>,
Matt Brown <ma...@yeahright.co.uk> wrote:
> > ISTR seeing "Thracian" used to mean a gay man. I've never heard of Ezekiel
> > Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by him. Thracianism would only be
> > as made up as Lesbianism.
The word "lesbian" was a successful attempt to lend dignity to the
concept of female same-sex love. In that vein, I came up with "thracian"
as the male equivalent. What other words we have to describe homosexual
love, are for the most part, degrading and stereotypical, or just plain
immpersonal: queer, faggot, homo, fudge packer, gay, etc.
> Ezekiel Krahlin? Just some boring homofascist who thinks the answer to
> all our problems is for all gay people to go and live on an island
> together somewhere and build artificial insemination centres and force
> all the resulting testtube babies to be gay, and lots of other wonderful
> ideas that are all liberally sprinkled with the word "exclusive".
What a superficial and distorted interpretation you have as to what I
have been proposing! I can only laugh at your rabid jealousy or phobia,
or whatever this is, you are inflicted with. Your lack of objectivity
makes you a poor candidate for diplomat, journalist, or peace maker...so
I sincerely hope you are not in any one of those fields, or a related
area.
> Women's role in this pursuit is not really detailed,
Untrue, and you know it.
>nor is what happens
> to those gay people that are born in the rest of the world in the
> meantime,
Untrue, and you know it.
>or indeed what happens to those unfortunate enough to be born
> straight in the new Holy Regime of Queerdom.
Untrue, and you know it.
>He refers to bisexuals as "phony gays"
Correct.
>and straights as "right wing agents of oppression".
Untrue.
Nevertheless, thanks for the free publicity. Why not allow people to
decide for themselves, rather than insist they see me in your
highly-biased way? My web site will help anyone decide what ideas I am
really espousing.
---
Rumor has it that hetero females prefer trained
gerbils over their male concubines and spouses.
My web site kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://www.2xtreme.net/ezekielk/
(a.k.a. "godhatesbreeders.com")
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <8732210...@dejanews.com>, ezek...@hotmail.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
wrote thus:
> In article <33FDCF5E...@yeahright.co.uk>,
> Matt Brown <ma...@yeahright.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > ISTR seeing "Thracian" used to mean a gay man. I've never heard of Ezekiel
> > > Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by him. Thracianism would only be
> > > as made up as Lesbianism.
>
> The word "lesbian" was a successful attempt to lend dignity to the
> concept of female same-sex love. In that vein, I came up with "thracian"
> as the male equivalent.
Thrace was not noted for noble inhabitants - name one well known Thracian poet to
equal Sappho.
> > Ezekiel Krahlin? Just some boring homofascist who thinks the answer to
> > all our problems is for all gay people to go and live on an island
> > together somewhere and build artificial insemination centres and force
> > all the resulting testtube babies to be gay, and lots of other wonderful
> > ideas that are all liberally sprinkled with the word "exclusive".
>
> What a superficial and distorted interpretation you have as to what I
> have been proposing! I can only laugh at your rabid jealousy or phobia,
> or whatever this is, you are inflicted with. Your lack of objectivity
> makes you a poor candidate for diplomat, journalist, or peace maker...so
> I sincerely hope you are not in any one of those fields, or a related
> area.
What a strange turn of phrase you have - are you real?
> >and straights as "right wing agents of oppression".
>
> Untrue.
it was in quotes - can we have chapter and verse on that one?
> Nevertheless, thanks for the free publicity. Why not allow people to
> decide for themselves, rather than insist they see me in your
> highly-biased way? My web site will help anyone decide what ideas I am
> really espousing.
I read it - self-obsessed and rather fascist tripe.
I loved the "how Ezekiel sent our boys in the Gulf War presents" stuff, you
really are a vain and silly man.
Mark Ynys-Môn
sua cuique deus fit dira cupido
http://www.archdruid.demon.co.uk
opinions are mine not Demon Internet's
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <8732199...@dejanews.com>, ezek...@hotmail.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
wrote thus:
> During this research, I learned that ancient Macedonia--which
> gave birth to our magnificent Alexander the Great--was
> originally called "Thrace" by the ancient Greeks. (Later,
> after calling it Macedonia, they called the region further
> east, "Thrace".) Thrace and Macedonia both have a rich
> cultural influence mixed with the great history of Hellenic
> and Hellenistic cultures. So "Thracian" became the word I
> decided to use...both for all GayFolk (males and females), as
> well as for gay men specifically.
So you speak for - amd name - lesbians too, and that after admitting that
"lesbian" is a good word.
Why, other than rampant sexism, should a word apply to "all GayFolk (males and
females), as well as for gay men specifically"?
Oops, you are confused I see:
> hence I
> coin the term "Thracian" for those who are commonly thought of
> as "gay male"...."Hellenic" can be the general term for both
> homophile women and men, who are sick of the belittling and
> ineffectual descriptor, "gay".
So it's Hellenic not Thracian.
You are neither Thracian nor Hellenic you are American (and addled at that).
Ezekiel Krahlin
In article <memo.19970902...@mcy.demon.co.uk>,
mcyatdemondotnet wrote:
>
>
> In article <8732210...@dejanews.com>, ezek...@hotmail.com (Ezekiel
Krahlin)
> wrote thus:
>
> > In article <33FDCF5E...@yeahright.co.uk>,
> > Matt Brown <ma...@yeahright.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > ISTR seeing "Thracian" used to mean a gay man. I've never heard of
Ezekiel
> > > > Krahlin, though, se it can't have been by him. Thracianism would only be
> > > > as made up as Lesbianism.
> >
> > The word "lesbian" was a successful attempt to lend dignity to the
> > concept of female same-sex love. In that vein, I came up with "thracian"
> > as the male equivalent.
>
> Thrace was not noted for noble inhabitants - name one well known Thracian poet
> to equal Sappho.
You don't absorb what you read very well. As I previously stated, Thrace
was first, the area later known as Macedonia. Certainly, Macedonia has a
rich history of Hellenic culture...not least of whom is Alexander the
Great, who is the major reason we know as much as we do about the people
of Ancient and Classic Greece. Alexander's reign brought about the
Hellenistic Age. But I will give some further examples that justify my
coining the term "Thracian" as a male equivalent to Lesbian...
Ancient Macedonia was originally called "Thrace" by the early Greeks.
Later, they named an area further east of present-day Macedonia,
"Thrace". Obviously, Macedonia already is well known for its rich
Hellenic treasures of legend, philosphers, statesmen, and military
leaders. So in giving you the examples you requested, both Macedonia and
Thrace deserve equal attention.
(All references below are excerpted from Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia:)
Thrace (Latin Thracia, from Greek Thrakë), region in southeast Europe,
forming part of present-day Greece, Bulgaria, and Turkey. The name was
first applied by the ancient Greeks to the little-known land of
Macedonia. Later the name was used for the greater part of the eastern
Balkan Peninsula, bounded on the north by the Danube River, on the east
by the Euxine (Black Sea), on the south by the Propontis (Sea of
Marmara), the Bosporus, the Hellespont (Dardanelles), the Aegean Sea, and
Macedonia, and on the west by Illyria and Macedonia.
****** EXAMPLES FROM MACEDONIA:
ALEXANDER THE GREAT
Alexander the Great (356-323 bc), king of Macedonia, conqueror of the
Persian Empire, and one of the greatest military geniuses of all times.
Alexander, born in Pella, the ancient capital of Macedonia, was the son
of Philip II, king of Macedonia, and of Olympias (circa 375-316 bc), a
princess of Epirus.
ARISTOTLE
Aristotle was Alexander's tutor; he gave Alexander a thorough training in
rhetoric and literature and stimulated his interest in science, medicine,
and philosophy.
Aristotle (384-322 bc), Greek philosopher and scientist, who shares with
Plato the distinction of being the most famous of ancient philosophers.
Aristotle was born at Stagira, in Macedonia, the son of a physician to
the royal court. At the age of 17, he went to Athens to study at Plato's
Academy. He remained there for about 20 years, as a student and then as a
teacher.
****** EXAMPLES FROM THRACE:
LEUCIPPUS
Leucippus (flourished about 450-370 bc), Greek philosopher, probably born
in Abdera. Virtually nothing is known of his life and none of his
writings survive. He is, however, credited with founding the atomic
theory of matter, later developed by his pupil, the Greek philosopher
Democritus. According to this theory, all matter is constituted of
identical indivisible particles called atoms.
DEMOCRITUS, ATOMIC THEORIST AND PHILOSOPHER, BORN IN THRACE
Democritus (circa 460-c. 370 bc), Greek philosopher, who developed the
atomic theory of the universe, which had been originated by his mentor,
the philosopher Leucippus.
Democritus was born in Abdera, Thrace. He wrote extensively, but only
fragments of his works remain. According to his exposition of the atomic
theory of matter, all things are composed of minute, invisible,
indestructible particles of pure matter (atoma, “indivisibles”), which
move about eternally in infinite empty space (kenon, “the void”).
Although atoms are made up of precisely the same matter, they differ in
shape, size, weight, sequence, and position. Qualitative differences in
what the senses perceive and the birth, decay, and disappearance of
things are the results not of characteristics inherent in atoms but of
quantitative arrangements of atoms. Democritus viewed the creation of
worlds as the natural consequence of the ceaseless whirling motion of
atoms in space. Atoms collide and spin, forming larger aggregations of
matter.
Democritus also wrote on ethics, proposing happiness, or “cheerfulness,”
as the highest good—a condition to be achieved through moderation,
tranquillity, and freedom from fear. In later histories, Democritus was
known as the Laughing Philosopher, in contrast to the more somber and
pessimistic Heraclitus, the Weeping Philosopher. His atomic theory
anticipated the modern principles of the conservation of energy and the
irreducibility of matter.
PROTAGORAS, FIRST SOPHIST, BORN IN THRACE
Protagoras (480?-411? bc), Greek philosopher, born in Abdera, Thrace.
About 445 bc he went to Athens, where he became a friend of the statesman
Pericles and won great fame as a teacher and philosopher. Protagoras was
the first thinker to call himself a Sophist and to teach for pay,
receiving large sums from his pupils. He gave instruction in grammar,
rhetoric, and the interpretation of poetry. His chief works, of which
only a few fragments have survived, were entitled Truth and On the Gods.
The basis of his speculation was the doctrine that nothing is absolutely
good or bad, true or false, and that each individual is therefore his or
her own final authority; this belief is summed up in his saying: “Man is
the measure of all things.” Charged with impiety, Protagoras fled into
exile; he drowned on his way to Sicily. Two celebrated dialogues, the
Theaetetus and the Protagoras by Plato, refuted the doctrines of
Protagoras.
ORPHEUS, MYTHOLOGICAL SON OF THRACIAN KING
Orpheus, in Greek mythology, poet and musician, the son of the muse
Calliope (see Muses) and Apollo, god of music, or Oeagrus, king of
Thrace.
ARES, GOD OF WAR, THRACIAN ORIGIN
Ares, in Greek mythology, god of war and son of Zeus, king of the gods,
and his wife, Hera. The Romans identified him with Mars, also a god of
war. Aggressive and sanguinary, Ares personified the brutal nature of
war. He was unpopular with both gods and humans. Among the deities
associated with Ares were his consort, Aphrodite, goddess of love, and
such minor deities as Deimos (Fear) and Phobos (Rout), who accompanied
him in battle. Although fierce and warlike, Ares was not invincible, even
against mortals.
The worship of Ares, believed to have originated in Thrace, was not
extensive in ancient Greece, and where it existed, it lacked social or
moral significance. Ares was an ancestral deity of Thebes and had a
temple at Athens, at the foot of the Areopagus, or Hill of Ares.
> > >and straights as "right wing agents of oppression".
> >
> > Untrue.
>
> it was in quotes - can we have chapter and verse on that one?
The quotes are fictitious, so how can I prove a false accusation against
me? It is Matt Brown, who presented this quote, whom you need to
confront.
> > Nevertheless, thanks for the free publicity. Why not allow people to
> > decide for themselves, rather than insist they see me in your
> > highly-biased way? My web site will help anyone decide what ideas I am
> > really espousing.
>
> I read it - self-obsessed and rather fascist tripe.
Thank you anyway for taking the time to read it. Unfortunately, you
don't seem to grasp very well, anything you read:
> I loved the "how Ezekiel sent our boys in the Gulf War presents" stuff, you
> really are a vain and silly man.
Nothing on my web site refers to the Gulf War. There is, however, a
major section on my site called "The Somalian Affair"...and how I
addressed our Marines there, via small gift packets containing poems,
news articles, and graphic art. You are not the only, or first, person
to call me vain, silly, or whatever. However, others have been inspired
by this deed, and told me so...including some who otherwise do not
particularly enjoy my ideas. I don't think that you read or studied
anything on my web site...just gave it a quick gloss over.
Ezekiel Krahlin
Krahlin)
> wrote thus:
> So you speak for - amd name - lesbians too, and that after admitting that
> "lesbian" is a good word.
Where on earth you got this idea is beyond me. I can only conclude that
you are just plain stupid.
> Why, other than rampant sexism, should a word apply to "all GayFolk (males and
> females), as well as for gay men specifically"?
You are really grasping at straws, oh braindead one...for that was
already answered with a wholesome solution in my original message, from
which I quote once more:
---begin quote
An Internet acquaintance, Fireweaver, suggested we use the
term "Hellenic" (instead of Thracian) for all GayFolk, and
reserve "Thracian" as a specific alternative to "gay men". I
found that to be an excellent idea, as it would eliminate the
chauvinist application of "gay" to define homosexual women and
men, as well as just the men. So now, we have this lovely
triad: Hellenic, Lesbian, Thracian. I have begun using
"Hellenic" and "Hellene" per Fireweaver's wonderful
suggestion.
---end quote
Ergo, you accusation of sexism is as hollow as your cranium.
> Oops, you are confused I see:
>
> > hence I
> > coin the term "Thracian" for those who are commonly thought of
> > as "gay male"...."Hellenic" can be the general term for both
> > homophile women and men, who are sick of the belittling and
> > ineffectual descriptor, "gay".
>
> So it's Hellenic not Thracian.
Ooops, you look before you leap. There is no confusion from my quarter.
Methinks the confusion comes from an arrogant snot named Mark Ynys-Môn.
> You are neither Thracian nor Hellenic you are American (and addled at that).
Your accusations against me are so weak as to be irrelevant. Must I even
instruct you jerks how to defame or better me? Next time you choose to
knock me down, please contact me for some tips. All the points you've
made just reveal you as the dullard and dimwit you most surely are.
---
Breeding is a lifestyle that should not be tolerated,
as it violates every ethical law on which our
God-fearing nation was founded.
My web site kicks (but never licks) butt!
http://www.2xtreme.net/ezekielk/
(a.k.a. "godhatesbreeders.com")
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <8732732...@dejanews.com>, ezek...@hotmail.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
wrote thus:
> In article <memo.19970902...@mcy.demon.co.uk>,
> mcyatdemondotnet wrote:
> > Thrace was not noted for noble inhabitants - name one well known Thracian poet
> > to equal Sappho.
> You don't absorb what you read very well. As I previously stated, Thrace
> was first, the area later known as Macedonia. Certainly, Macedonia has a
> rich history of Hellenic culture
It was always regarded by the Greeks as being rather barbaric - read Alkaon's
views of Philip of Macedon for example. Since your reasons for using the area as a
new nomenclature are exclusively related to Macedonian achievements why use
"Thracian" and not "Macedonian"?
> not least of whom is Alexander the
> Great, who is the major reason we know as much as we do about the people
> of Ancient and Classic Greece.
Excuse me? How is he the "major reason we know as much as we do about the people
of Ancient and Classic Greece"?
> Alexander's reign brought about the
> Hellenistic Age. But I will give some further examples that justify my
> coining the term "Thracian" as a male equivalent to Lesbian...
Good.
> Ancient Macedonia was originally called "Thrace" by the early Greeks.
> Later, they named an area further east of present-day Macedonia,
> "Thrace".
As I said, why use "Thracian" and not "Macedonian"?
> Obviously, Macedonia already is well known for its rich
> Hellenic treasures of legend, philosphers, statesmen, and military
> leaders.
No, it is known for the military leaders, not the rest.
> ****** EXAMPLES FROM MACEDONIA:
>
> ALEXANDER THE GREAT
>
> Alexander the Great (356-323 bc), king of Macedonia
not Thrace you notice
> conqueror of the
> Persian Empire, and one of the greatest military geniuses of all times.
>
> Alexander, born in Pella, the ancient capital of Macedonia, was the son
> of Philip II, king of Macedonia, and of Olympias (circa 375-316 bc), a
> princess of Epirus.
Strange that you do not mention the well-known matter of his (at least)
bisexuality.
> ARISTOTLE
No gay relevance at all.
> ****** EXAMPLES FROM THRACE:
> LEUCIPPUS
>
> Leucippus (flourished about 450-370 bc), Greek philosopher, probably born
> in Abdera. Virtually nothing is known of his life and none of his
> writings survive.
Well we needn't be detained by him then.
> He is, however, credited with founding the atomic
> theory of matter, later developed by his pupil, the Greek philosopher
> Democritus. According to this theory, all matter is constituted of
> identical indivisible particles called atoms.
no gay relevance
> DEMOCRITUS, ATOMIC THEORIST AND PHILOSOPHER, BORN IN THRACE
> Democritus also wrote on ethics, proposing happiness, or “cheerfulness,”
> as the highest good—a condition to be achieved through moderation,
> tranquillity, and freedom from fear. In later histories, Democritus was
> known as the Laughing Philosopher
So gay in a sense then...
> PROTAGORAS, FIRST SOPHIST, BORN IN THRACE
> The basis of his speculation was the doctrine that nothing is absolutely
> good or bad, true or false, and that each individual is therefore his or
> her own final authority; this belief is summed up in his saying: “Man is
> the measure of all things.”
A singularly bad example for a separatist to quote. Again, no gay relevance.
> ORPHEUS, MYTHOLOGICAL SON OF THRACIAN KING
Again, no gay relevance.
> ARSE, GOD OF WAR, THRACIAN ORIGIN
> The worship of Ares, believed to have originated in Thrace, was not
> extensive in ancient Greece, and where it existed, it lacked social or
> moral significance.
or, indeed, gay relevance. Still no poet to rival Sappho I see.
Look, if you are just going to reel off a string of well known names from
antiquity as justification for suggesting a new name for gays then why not Romans,
or Athenians or Egyptians?
> > > >and straights as "right wing agents of oppression".
> > >
> > > Untrue.
> >
> > it was in quotes - can we have chapter and verse on that one?
>
> The quotes are fictitious, so how can I prove a false accusation against
> me? It is Matt Brown, who presented this quote, whom you need to
> confront.
Indeed. But this is a public NG, not all parts of a posting are for your exclusive
attention.
> > > Nevertheless, thanks for the free publicity. Why not allow people to
> > > decide for themselves, rather than insist they see me in your
> > > highly-biased way? My web site will help anyone decide what ideas I am
> > > really espousing.
> >
> > I read it - self-obsessed and rather fascist tripe.
>
> Thank you anyway for taking the time to read it. Unfortunately, you
> don't seem to grasp very well, anything you read:
Much as you do not grasp the matter of greek history - other than by reading
Encarta.
> > I loved the "how Ezekiel sent our boys in the Gulf War presents" stuff, you
> > really are a vain and silly man.
>
> Nothing on my web site refers to the Gulf War. There is, however, a
> major section on my site called "The Somalian Affair"
Yes - my mistake, it was Somalia. My comments still stand nonetheless.
"THE SOMALIAN AFFAIR
This collection of files is a record of one of my achievements as a Thracian
Activist...when I mailed 25 Hellene-affirmative gift packets and letters of
support to our Marines in Somalia, in December of 1992."
Self obsessed tripe.
> Rumor has it that hetero females prefer trained
> gerbils over their male concubines and spouses.
thank you so much for passing on that rumour.
JohnM
In article <memo.19970903...@mcy.demon.co.uk>,
mcyatdemondotnet <?@?.?> writes
>> ARSE, GOD OF WAR, THRACIAN ORIGIN
>
>> The worship of Ares, believed to have originated in Thrace, was not
>> extensive in ancient Greece, and where it existed, it lacked social or
>> moral significance.
>
Arse, God of War, sounds better than Ares, I must admit.
------------- Real Headlines of Our Time # 51 ------
"Local High School Dropouts Cut In Half"
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <8732739...@dejanews.com>, ezek...@hotmail.com (Ezekiel Krahlin)
wrote thus:
> In article <memo.19970902...@mcy.demon.co.uk>,
> mcyatdemondotnet wrote:
> > So you speak for - amd name - lesbians too, and that after admitting that
> > "lesbian" is a good word.
> Where on earth you got this idea is beyond me.
Your words:
"So "Thracian" became the word I decided to use...both for all GayFolk (males and
females), as well as for gay men specifically."
I see you changed your mind only afterwards.
> > Why, other than rampant sexism, should a word apply to "all GayFolk (males and
> > females), as well as for gay men specifically"?
>
> You are really grasping at straws, oh braindead one...for that was
> already answered with a wholesome solution in my original message, from
> which I quote once more:
>
> ---begin quote
> An Internet acquaintance, Fireweaver, suggested we use the
> term "Hellenic" (instead of Thracian) for all GayFolk, and
> reserve "Thracian" as a specific alternative to "gay men". I
> found that to be an excellent idea, as it would eliminate the
> chauvinist application of "gay" to define homosexual women and
> men, as well as just the men. So now, we have this lovely
> triad: Hellenic, Lesbian, Thracian. I have begun using
> "Hellenic" and "Hellene" per Fireweaver's wonderful
> suggestion.
> ---end quote
ie you were quite happy to have "the chauvinist application of [Thracian] to
define homosexual women and men, as well as just the men." until SOMEONE ELSE came
up with another word you liked the sound of.
> Ergo, you accusation of sexism is as hollow as your cranium.
Ergo you are still confused
> > > hence I
> > > coin the term "Thracian" for those who are commonly thought of
> > > as "gay male"...."Hellenic" can be the general term for both
> > > homophile women and men, who are sick of the belittling and
> > > ineffectual descriptor, "gay".
> >
> > So it's Hellenic not Thracian.
>
> Ooops, you look before you leap. There is no confusion from my quarter.
See above.
> Methinks the confusion comes from an arrogant snot named Mark Ynys-Môn.
I think it is the "Chief Thracian of the Blue Militia" who is being arrogant.
> > You are neither Thracian nor Hellenic you are American (and addled at that).
>
> Your accusations against me are so weak as to be irrelevant. Must I even
> instruct you jerks
Plural? "You jerks"? Is the Word of Thrace not getting through then?
> how to defame or better me? Next time you choose to
> knock me down, please contact me for some tips. All the points you've
> made just reveal you as the dullard and dimwit you most surely are.
Gosh what a put down - I wish *I'd* said that Oscar....
> Breeding is a lifestyle that should not be tolerated,
> as it violates every ethical law on which our
> God-fearing nation was founded.
ho ho ho - another ribtickler.
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <5umav8$2ur$1...@newsserver.dircon.co.uk>,
ma...@yeahright.co.uk!delete-everything-after-uk (Matt Brown) wrote thus:
>
> I've just had a brilliant idea which I think is going to lead all homosexuals
> into a new and glorious period of history, together.
>
> I am now going to refer to all female homosexuals as "Dogs", since it has come
> to my attention that there are a few people with a Sapphic bent on the Isle of
> Dogs, London, and all male homosexuals as "Mans", in reference to the
> fact that there was once an unmarried bloke on of the Isle of Man who looked
> at me a bit funny. "Homosexuality" will be described as being "Welsh" for no
> apparent reason whatsoever.
>
> Hopefully therefore all Dogs and Mans will come together and form a
> self-determined state of independence, free from the het-dominated perversion
> that is thrust down our throats daily, and glorying in the light of Welsh
> achievement.
Will you be Chief Man then?
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <WAq2WIBk...@scroll.demon.co.uk>, jo...@scroll.demon.co.uk (JohnM)
wrote thus:
> In article <memo.19970903...@mcy.demon.co.uk>,
> mcyatdemondotnet <?@?.?> writes
> >> ARSE, GOD OF WAR, THRACIAN ORIGIN
> >
> >> The worship of Ares, believed to have originated in Thrace, was not
> >> extensive in ancient Greece, and where it existed, it lacked social or
> >> moral significance.
> >
>
> Arse, God of War, sounds better than Ares, I must admit.
you noticed ;)
Matt Brown
In article <memo.1997090...@mcy.demon.co.uk>, mcyatdemondotnet said:
>In article <5umav8$2ur$1...@newsserver.dircon.co.uk>,
>ma...@yeahright.co.uk!delete-everything-after-uk (Matt Brown) wrote thus:
>> I've just had a brilliant idea which I think is going to lead all homosexuals
>> into a new and glorious period of history, together.
>>
>> I am now going to refer to all female homosexuals as "Dogs", since it has come
>> to my attention that there are a few people with a Sapphic bent on the Isle of
>> Dogs, London, and all male homosexuals as "Mans", in reference to the
>> fact that there was once an unmarried bloke on of the Isle of Man who looked
>> at me a bit funny. "Homosexuality" will be described as being "Welsh" for no
>> apparent reason whatsoever.
>>
>> Hopefully therefore all Dogs and Mans will come together and form a
>> self-determined state of independence, free from the het-dominated perversion
>> that is thrust down our throats daily, and glorying in the light of Welsh
>> achievement.
>
>Will you be Chief Man then?
Yes. I am the Grandly Welsh Chief Man of the Pink Order. So there.
Mark Ynys-Mon
In article <5upho0$e7q$1...@newsserver.dircon.co.uk>,
ma...@yeahright.co.uk!delete-everything-after-uk (Matt Brown) wrote thus:
> >Will you be Chief Man then?
>
> Yes. I am the Grandly Welsh Chief Man of the Pink Order. So there.
That's Puce Order you heretic, I am considering a secession to form the Nation of
Brythonic Queers, to show up how weak your stance on the need to force bisexuals
to eat their own genitalia is.
David Ridgway
On 05.09.97 19:07, iMatt Brown
<ma...@yeahright.co.uk!delete-everything-after-uk> wrote:
> Yes. I am the Grandly Welsh Chief Man of the Pink Order.
> So there.
Iechyd da? Bach!