Werner's Paperless Logs
David W. Finch
anyone have any feedback on how it's working out?
ORION 300
are very happy with how they are working out.
It went on to give a few details, and it was obvious that there are enough
loopholes built into how it records time that allow the usuual fudging.
I was wondering how they would be able to continue to "hint" to drivers that
they should push the limits, but they have that already figured out.
Chuck
>It went on to give a few details, and it was obvious that there are enough
>loopholes built into how it records time that allow the usuual fudging.
Actually, if the Werner drivers whom I have talked with are telling it
true, the PLS will fudge logs better than any driver ever dared to.
According to the Werner drivers who talked to me, that sysem will
squeeze hours out when there are no hours to squeeze out!
PJm
primarily because I really don't care. However, I do know &
understand the trucking industry.
This system was created within the trucking industry and you can bet
your life they've included enough loopholes and work-arounds built
into the system to maximize the trucking company's profits...and
minimize the driver's net pay.
Like it or not, believe it or not, that is the business end of the
trucking company. Drivers & Owner Operators are "tools" to be used
to make the trucking company profits. The PLS is just a new "tool"
to enhance their positions. If you don't believe that, you haven't
been involved in the trucking industry long enough.
I am sure Chuck and myself are on opposing sides on most trucking
related issues, but I believe he speaks the truth about many subjects.
The funny part...to me...is that he is like a lone voice crying in
the wind about legitimate issues.
I wouldn't waste as much of my time presenting the issues like he does,
but he is right...one day long after he is gone (myself as well!), he
will have started the ball rolling on some changes.
PJm
Chuck
>This system was created within the trucking industry and you can bet
>your life they've included enough loopholes and work-arounds built
>into the system to maximize the trucking company's profits...and
>minimize the driver's net pay.
From what I've been told the amazing thing to me is that the DOT will
even tolerate the PLS in it's present form!
>Like it or not, believe it or not, that is the business end of the
>trucking company. Drivers & Owner Operators are "tools" to be used
>to make the trucking company profits.
Weeeeelllllllll.....
That's a pretty harsh way of phrasing it. ;o)
Actually, the only justification for the existence of _any_ employee
at _any_ for profit entity is _PROFIT_! There's nothing intrinsically
wrong with that principle ... or at least not in my opinion. What is
wrong is when a for profit entity, through deception, coercion,
political leverage, or whatever means, manages to utilize the time,
skills, and labor of it's employees with no intention or ability to
compensate those employees for their contributions.
>The PLS is just a new "tool"
>to enhance their positions. If you don't believe that, you haven't
>been involved in the trucking industry long enough.
A most apt description of the PLS in it's present form _IF_ what
Werner drivers have told me about the system is correct. And, I have
no reason to think other than that they have told it like it is!
>I am sure Chuck and myself are on opposing sides on most trucking
>related issues, but I believe he speaks the truth about many subjects.
>The funny part...to me...is that he is like a lone voice crying in
>the wind about legitimate issues.
I appreciate the kind words. sir. And, I have never had any problem
with people just because they were on the other side of an issue. I
learn a lot more from people whose views differ from mine than I have
ever learned from people who are in agreement with me. ;o)
Reasonable logical discussion of a valid issue by reasonable and
logical people is the first step on the journey to better ideas! ;o)
Hopefully, the "journey" has begun toward some better ideas re trucker
compensation. ;o)
>I wouldn't waste as much of my time presenting the issues like he does,
>but he is right...one day long after he is gone (myself as well!), he
>will have started the ball rolling on some changes.
Again, thank you for the kind words.
Radio-active
JBatmick wrote:
>Agree it was designed to benefit company,not driver
You driver for Werner?
Radio-active
JBatmick
tscottme
miles when this thread started. I'm not sure if I saw an answer in
there or not.
scott m
Grneyedbch
help with the miles. His best example was being stuck in traffic. From the
way he explained it to me, if your truck is going below a certain speed (I
can't remember the exact speed) as when you are stuck in really BAD traffic for
over 15 mins, the system logs you off duty. Seems to me (and I really could be
wrong) that should save you some driving time. More driving time means more
miles, right?
He also told me of several ways to get around the PLS and the satellite. Since
I don't have to deal with either one, I don't remember too many of the details.
Would be best if you talked to a Werner driver. From what I can tell though,
most of them are happy with the deal. Heck, at least there's less paperwork!
Happy New Year. Let's "party like it's 1999"! and everybody be careful out
there!
~the mumbler~
K Mullins
day...... something fishy is going on there
Radio-active
this subject.
First I think I need to say that even though I am an Owner/Op I still run
the Paperless logging system (PLS).
It has it's ups and downs. I have not run any more or less miles as a result
of the PLS. While it does have some pretty big faults (IMHO) I still like
it. When you stop somewhere, all you have to do is hit a button and that
takes care of all your logging responsabilities. No need to figure out what
town you are in (c'mon, we all stop sometimes in places we aren't sure of
the name). No need to total your hours to find out how many hours you have
left for the day. It figures out your recap tells you how many hours you
have left in the 10/15 and 70 hour rules.
Each morning, the first time that you have a change of duty status onto any
line but 3 on your log, the computer sends you a copy of the previous days
log so that you can check it for errors. You can automatically change lines
1,2 & 4, but to change line 3 the message that you send in has to be
approved by someone in the log dept.. The way that our waiver from paper
logs is set up, if you don't try and correct the log that is sent to you, it
is like signing your name to the top of the paper log.
It automatically logs 15 min. on duty time for several events. When you send
a "loaded at shipper", "Empty at consignee", and the first time that you
send "I have resumed driving" each day (pretrip inspection). It also logs
you 15 min on duty when you swipe your fuel card. There in lies one of the
logging problems that they have. The fact that you used your fuel card
doesn't always get conveyed to Omaha right away and sometimes your fuel stop
might get logged an hour or so late. I got screwed up on this once since I
fueled and went straight into my 8 hr break. The fueling got logged 45 min
into my break so when I took off the next morning, the computer showed me in
violation.
As for being able to "fudge" with it, you are pretty limited. You can only
go a few miles between logging that you have stopped and that you have
resumed driving before it will take the initiative and log you as driving
even though you didn't punch it in. You can do the deal where you start
driving 8 min after the hour and it will round it to 15 after, so you get in
7 min of "free" driving and the same is true with stopping 7 min after the
hour. It will kick you off duty sometimes (not always) when you are slowed
up by traffic or something. What it does is it looks at how many miles you
go in the course of an hours time. If you only go 30, it assumes that you
must have stopped and forgotten to log the stop. Sometimes it won't do that
though, and I don't know why not. Qualcomm tracks every truck once per hour
when no messages are sent from the truck. When a message is sent, the
tracking information is attached to the message. We are supposed to send a
message every time we have a change of duty status. If you forget, the
computer is programed to do the best that it can to guess what you have
done. So if you don't send any messages and drive 30 miles, sometime within
and hour of stopping the computer will know that you drove that far, just
not exactly when you started and stopped. So it would probably log you 30
min on line 3, sometime during the last hour. While it is not exact, the DOT
thought this was ok, I guess since they can at least be sure that it is
getting logged.
As for there being a driver getting 1.5 to 2 hours more per day with the
PLS, I need to meet that driver. I sure am not. I think it's pretty much the
same as when I ran on paper as far as the hours I have to run. I just don't
spend as much time working with my calculator now.
Someone posted:
>Agree it was designed to benefit company,not driver.
I agree that Werner designed it to benifit themselves. However I do believe
that It also is a benifit to the driver (as explained above). Very few
business decisions are made for any reason other than proffit or the
increase there of. Heck, I don't think your company has a 401k just so your
boss feels good about him-self. They have it to attract and retain
employees. Just because a company something for their benifit doesn't mean
that it is bad for someone else. Some things are good for the employer and
employee both. Werner agreed with the DOT to be the company to try out the
PLS before it was aproved for every company because they saw that it would
benifit them in a couple of ways. Now that they are using it, when the DOT
comes in to audit them, they won't have to pay big bucks in log violations.
Also when the DOT approves PLS for everyone (if they want to use it) Werner
will be the only company that has an up and running system that has already
been road-tested. I am sure that the marketing department will be very busy
selling the software that Werner's IS dept. developed to make the PLS
possible.
Some one else posted:
>From what I've been told the amazing thing to me is that the DOT will even
tolerate the PLS in it's present form!
Frankly, I am amazed too. I took an 8 hr break in Sonora,KY and the computer
logged me in Christiansburg,TN (if anyone knows where that is, please let me
know. I have wondered for months). When I called the log dept. to complain
about the fact that the nearest point in TN was at least 80 miles from me
they told me not to worry about it, that the system had it's problems and
that the DOT wouldn't care about the wrong location being logged either.
(don't try that one at home) While the log dept.'s ho-hum dismissal of the
error didn't sit real well with me, I just did what they said and ignored it
and luckily not DOT ever checked my logs and saw that one.
As a matter of fact, since July, when we started running paperless, I have
only been asked to show my log book once, and after I said that I didn't
have one, he said,"Oh yeah, that's right. You're a Werner. Never mind." I
offered to have my logs faxed into the scale house and he just repeated,
"never mind".
Something I had to respond to was this from a post:
>This system was created within the trucking industry and you can bet your
life they've included enough loopholes and work-arounds built into the
system to maximize the trucking company's profits...and minimize the
driver's net pay. Like it or not, believe it or not, that is the business
end of the trucking company. Drivers & Owner Operators are "tools" to be
used to make the trucking company profits. The PLS is just a new "tool" to
enhance their positions. If you don't believe that, you haven't been
involved in the trucking industry long enough.
The only way I know to do that (maximize the trucking company's
profits...and minimize the driver's net pay) is with a pay or benifit cut.
We are talking logs here. I still log in accordance with the same rules that
everyone else does, I just don't have to spend as much time doing it. I'm
not saying that Werner isn't trying to save a buck every where they can,
they are. So is every other company out here. Somehow, I just don't buy the
conspiritorial angle on the PLS. "We are all slaves to "The Man"", give me a
break. Everything in life is like that if adopt that kind of a cynical
attitude. TV shows are "tools" used to get people to watch comercials.
Comercials are just "tools" used by companies to get us to buy their
products. Their products are just "tools" they use to get our money. Money
is just a "tool" we use so we don't have to carry arround chickens in our
pockets. Pockets are just "tools" designed to get us to wear pants. See how
silly this "tool/conspiricy" thing is? ;-)
Another post:
>Actually, if the Werner drivers whom I have talked with are telling it
true, the PLS will fudge logs better than any driver ever dared to.
According to the Werner drivers who talked to me, that sysem will
squeeze hours out when there are no hours to squeeze out!
I don't know about "ever dared to" I used to run meat and needless to say my
log book was..... , well lets just chuckle and wonder how it was. For the
most part you really can't fudge with the PLS, but once I had to drive 1.5
hours beyond the 10 that you are allowed. I hit my 10 just as I arrived at a
reciever and they refused the whole load. The nearest truck stop was 25
miles away and I wasn't going to be allowed to stay there. I went to the
truckstop and It took me 30 min. of driving to get there. A couple of hours
later I got a message that I should take the load back and that they would
recieve it now. I went back and they refused it again. I went back to the
truck stop. I stayed there for 8 hours then before I went anywhere else. The
PLS never showed me as going over 10 hours even though I did. I'm not sure
if it back logged or what because I was tired and pretty mad (as you can
imagine) and didn't rember just how it had logged me before I started
running over my 10. This is the one and only time (other than the 7 min
rounding that I refered to earlier) that the PLS cut me slack. Most of the
time it's pretty much on the money.
Sorry this post is so long, but I just wanted to try and answer everyones
questions since it was looking like I was the only Werner checking in on
this. If anyone has any other questions they'd like to ask about the PLS
I'de be more than happy to share the rest of my experiences with it, with
you.
Happy New Year everyone,
Radio-active
O/O leased to Werner Enterprises
Chuck
wrote:
>What this thread needs is for a Werner driver (such as myslef) to adress
>this subject.
Agreed! And a hearty 'thank you' for your information.
BTW .. Christiansburg, TN is a small town south of Sweetwater, TN. It
sits at the junction of TN state routes 68 and 307 approximately five
miles south and a little east of Sweetwater. Rather than being only 80
[only?] miles from Sonora, KY, it is actually over 220 miles ... even
if you cut down through the boonies! ;o)
Radio-active
Chuck wrote:
>BTW .. Christiansburg, TN is a small town south of Sweetwater, TN. It
>sits at the junction of TN state routes 68 and 307 approximately five
>miles south and a little east of Sweetwater. Rather than being only 80
>[only?] miles from Sonora, KY, it is actually over 220 miles ... even
>if you cut down through the boonies! ;o)
Thanks. I had been wondering. It wasn't listed in the back of my
Rand-McNally. Looks like the PLS was waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy off.
Radio-active
ma...@door.net
logs
and you are using the pls what do you show them?
John Schmidt
wrote:
I presume the paperless log book work in conjunction with the Global
Positioning Satellite System. Maybe the time you were more than 220
miles "off route" was the day the New Nineted States Gummint was
"adjusting" the satellite frequencies? (Nope, not trying to open
another "conspiracy" can of worms.)
Radio-active
They can view your logs right on the Qualcomm screen or if they have a fax
in the scale house they can give you the number and it can fax it to them.
What they look at doesn't look like a traditional log with the grid and
lines. It is more of a list of times folowed by what change of duty status
occoured (1,2,3 or 4 representing each line of a regular log book) and if it
is relevant, where you were. When you request that the logs be faxed or sent
for the last 7 days, you also get a complete recap send to you too. The only
time you need all 7 of the past days is when the DOT wants to see them.
Normally you just get the previous day each morning and can send a message
to see how many hours you have curently available.
Radio-active