Pattern of microbiologist deaths?
Thomas Keske
school, "working on infectious diseases like HIV," was found comatose by
Miami police. Police are calling the case a mugging. Dr. Que showed no sign
of trama to the head.
11/21/2001 -- Boston Globe -- Don C. Wiley disappeared in Tennessee early
last Friday, leaving a rental car on a Memphis bridge. Dr. Wiley's research
focused on the structure of viruses and proteins in the human immune system.
He specialized in the "infectivity" of viruses, bacterias and mycoplasmas,
and worked on AIDS, ebola, smallpox, and infectious influenza. An
award-winning professor of biochemistry and biophysics at Harvard, Wiley
built the first model of the structures of influenza viruses and human cells
that allow the disease organism to infect humans. In 1985, Wiley began
researching how drugs might block the process, using a method called X-ray
crystallography, in hopes of conquering maladies ranging from the common
cold to HIV.
http://www.rense.com/general17/topdeadlycontagious.htm
November 23, 2001, the New York Times -- Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik was
responsible for viability of plague as aerosolized bioweapon. He came up
with polymer coating. He also was the successful developer of binary weapons
such as substance A232 and substance 233 Novichok. Former director of the
Institute of Ultra Pure Biochemical Preparations, a component of the Soviet
biowarfare establishment, Biopreparat. Pasechnik defected to Britain in
1989. In England Pasechnik was employed by Porton Down until he joined in
the creation of a private company several years ago. Official cause of
death: stroke. The Times was apparently informed of Pasechnik's death by
the U.K. Ministry of Defense representative on the team which had debriefed
Pasechnik after his defection.
http://www.rense.com/general17/another2.htm
Dec 12, 2001 -- The Washington Post -- Robert M. Schwartz, 57, Loudoun
County biophysicist, murdered in his home, possibly by friends of his
daughter. Schwartz was stabbed several times in a ritualistic slaying that
had "cult overtones," the source said. His body was found facedown with an
"X" carved into the back of his neck. Schwartz was a leading researcher on
DNA sequencing analysis and biometrics. Dr. Schwartz was a founding member
of the Virginia Biotechnology Association. He worked for the past 15 years
with the Center for Innovative Technology, a nonprofit agency, where he most
recently served as executive director of research and development and
university relations, helping to administer grants. Schwartz worked at both
Georgetown University and the University of Maryland and contributed
chapters to the Nucleic Acid Sequence Database. He also worked on the first
national online database of DNA sequence information.
December -- Australia -- Set Van Nguyen, 44, a skilled microbiologist, was
killed at CSIRO's animal diseases facility in Geelong, . He had logged 15
years' experience with the unit. Victoria Police said he appeared to have
died after entering an airlock into a storage laboratory filled with
nitrogen. His body was found when his wife became worried after he failed to
return from work.
There were also two Dartmouth College professors, Half and Susanne Zantop,
murdered in their home back on Jan. 27, apparently by two Vermont teens.
The article did not indicate whether the Zantops were research scientists.
Conspiracy theories on the above!
http://www.rense.com/general18/returb.htm
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/
http://www.rense.com/general17/another.htm
Paul Taylor
>
> December -- Australia -- Set Van Nguyen, 44, a skilled microbiologist, was
> killed at CSIRO's animal diseases facility in Geelong, . He had logged 15
> years' experience with the unit. Victoria Police said he appeared to have
> died after entering an airlock into a storage laboratory filled with
> nitrogen. His body was found when his wife became worried after he failed to
> return from work.
Working in science means that you are exposed to dangers. I am offended at
your absolute insensitivity towards the families of people like Set. This
happened less than a week ago, and the entire Australian scientific
community is still dealing with the implications.
I question the value of your contributions to anything microbiological, and
ask in future, you display some level of respect for the people you are
dragging into your conspiracy theories. If you are trying to convince people
of your beliefs, try a more gullible and less discerning newsgroup, and
leave this sort of hyperbole to the X-Files and 60 MINUTES.
Paul Taylor
Microbial Ecology and Bioremediation Laboratory
Department of Microbiology and Immunology
The University of Melbourne
Victoria 3010
p +61 3 8344 5705
f +61 3 9347 1540
e p.ta...@pgrad.unimelb.edu.au
---
Thomas Keske
>
> Working in science means that you are exposed to dangers. I am offended at
> your absolute insensitivity towards the families of people like Set. This
> happened less than a week ago, and the entire Australian scientific
> community is still dealing with the implications.
I am just forwarding an article that I received, but I don't believe that
it is insensitive. The mainstream press has also theorized about some
of these incidents, and the FBI has been quite interested- a
"conspiracy theory" of their own, about terrorist involvement.
There are lots of strange things going on, these days, in case you
hadn't noticed- anthrax letters, etc, which makes a pattern like this
something to raise an eyebrow, not to avoid discussion.
As a scientist, you react too emotionally, and ought to be more
objective about the possiblities. The possiblities of cults and
terrorists are reasonable enough.
> I question the value of your contributions to anything microbiological,
and
> ask in future, you display some level of respect for the people you are
> dragging into your conspiracy theories. If you are trying to convince
people
> of your beliefs, try a more gullible and less discerning newsgroup, and
> leave this sort of hyperbole to the X-Files and 60 MINUTES.
>
You lump "60 Minutes" in with "X-Files"? The 60 Minutes show does
some credible investigative work, from time to time. The hyperbole
appears to be yours. If the group is "discerning", it would be interested
in hearing about these multiple incidents, regardless of what the ultimate
explanation for them might be.
I can imagine how a "Unibomber" type of anti-technology cult
might be unfortunately inspired by a lengthy legacy of irresponsible
experimentation, profiteering, arrogance, censorship,
human guinea pigs, coverups, etc. Perhaps the string of nasty
coincidences is a product of a kind of "bad karma". You can call
that speculation "insensitive" too, but it happens to be a fair
characterization and legitimate possibility, so there is no reason
to refrain from stating it.
Sincerely, Tom Keske
Paul Taylor
1. As a scientist, I know how easy it is to draw together complemetary facts
and suggest theories based on these. As someone posting to a presumably
scientific group, you should be aware of this as well.
2. Anyone with an ounce of humanity would at least be a slightly aware that
in all of these cases someone has DIED, and be aware of what this actually
means. Possibly I have reacted too emotionally as a scientist, but that is
secondary to my reaction as a person.
Perhaps expecting an expression of concern or maybe even sympathy about
these incidents is too much to expect from someone like yourself.
---
Lesley Robertson
"Thomas Keske" <tke...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:VVdT7.16180$Sj1.9...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
>
>
> There are lots of strange things going on, these days, in case you
> hadn't noticed- anthrax letters, etc, which makes a pattern like this
> something to raise an eyebrow, not to avoid discussion.
What pattern? There are so many microbiologists in the world that it would
be strange if a few had not come to accidentl or violent ends. We are no
more vulnerable than anyone else.
>
> As a scientist, you react too emotionally, and ought to be more
> objective about the possiblities. The possiblities of cults and
> terrorists are reasonable enough.
But trolling around, looking to build a theory of conspiracy on a few
unrelated cases (the only linking factor that I can see being that the
people were bioscientists - not even in the same branch) is not reasonable.
The level of reason is on the same level as deciding that you know what
conclusion you want to reach, an then looking for a few experimental results
to support it. You give the impression that you are either looking for
attention, or trying to cause a panic. You could build the same model using
car mechanics or actors - or any other group.
Using such recent deaths for your little conspiracy theory in a forum where
you can reasonably expect to find friends or colleagues of the people
involved who are still trying to deal with events exhibits maximum
insensitivity and small-mindedness. And no, I did not know any of these
people, and I am not emotionally involved.
Lesley Robertson
Thomas Keske
> Using such recent deaths for your little conspiracy theory in a forum
where
> you can reasonably expect to find friends or colleagues of the people
> involved who are still trying to deal with events exhibits maximum
> insensitivity and small-mindedness. And no, I did not know any of these
> people, and I am not emotionally involved.
These articles are taken directly from sources like the New York Times
and Washington Post. Posting news to a newsgroup is no more
insensitive than for newspapers to report the news.
When gay men were dying in droves from an epidemic of suspicious
origin (which the good German scientists here also think is not a
serious matter), the reaction of America, in our time of death,
was to remind us constantly how we were unfit for the military,
for marriage, for the Boy Scouts, for the St. Patrick's Day parades,
etc. We watched Ronald Reagan ordering the Surgeon General
not to mention the word "AIDS", watched his crackpot friend
Dannemeyer in Congress (controlling AIDS funding) with a genocide
advocate on his staff, watched Reagan try to slash the CDC budget,
then watched the country adoringly give Reagan the hero's treatment.
We listed to Pat Buchanan saying that we were "immoral and filthy",
that "nature was taking its terrible retribution",
then watched his face on Crossfire every night, as a major pundit.
And *you* people think you have something to tell *us" about
"insensitivity"? I think America should have a bit of insensitivity
rubbed in its face, so it knows how it feels. Turnabout is fair play.
Tom Keske
Trond Erik Vee Aune
Thomas Keske wrote:
>
You are truly a pathetic person. A newsgroup does not mean we discuss
general news in here. And absolutely not silly conspiracy theories from
a demented brain. We discuss questions regarding microbiology. And you
are insensitive bringing up tragic events regarding our colleges and
friends.
Your rant about gay people and how they've been discriminated was so
idiotic there is really no need to comment on it.
Please refrain from posting to this newsgroup in the future unless you
adhere to its policies.
Trond Erik Vee Aune
Lesley Robertson
>
> > Using such recent deaths for your little conspiracy theory in a forum
> where
> > you can reasonably expect to find friends or colleagues of the people
> > involved who are still trying to deal with events exhibits maximum
> > insensitivity and small-mindedness. And no, I did not know any of these
> > people, and I am not emotionally involved.
>
> And *you* people think you have something to tell *us" about
> "insensitivity"? I think America should have a bit of insensitivity
> rubbed in its face, so it knows how it feels. Turnabout is fair play.
>
America? Since you're replying to a snip from my message, I assume that you
didn't notice the .nl on my email address? Not that I agree that you can
judge ANY mass of people by the actions of a few.
Lesley Robertson
Bill_A_N...@bd.com
You listened to Pat Buchanan? Huh ... I guess someone must be.
- Bill
<snip>
We listed to Pat Buchanan saying that we were "immoral and filthy",
that "nature was taking its terrible retribution",
then watched his face on Crossfire every night, as a major pundit.
<snip>
---
Thomas Keske
> You listened to Pat Buchanan? Huh ... I guess someone must be.
>
Oh, so no one in their right mind would listen to Buchanan, and
everybody knows that, so its all my fault for not being discerning
enough to realize that intelligent folks wouldn't take him seriously?
You miss the point. Yes, I know that no one in their right minds
would take the crackpot seriously. Yet, that is what this
f**king country did, every day. Buchanan was one of the President's
men. He got his start under Nixon. He worked for Reagan.
He has a cozy relation with the mainstream media, and is a syndicated
columnist appearing in newspapers all over the country.
The large numbers of jackasses who make someone like Buchanan
a power broker in America don't know that they jackasses, even
if you can see that.
When I say the people on this newsgroup are Good Germans,
they cannot be expected to understand that they really are Good Germans.
Of course you feel that the characterization is totally absurd. The
Buchanan
supporters would react no differently, if someone tried patiently,
in depth and detail, to explain to them why they are utter jackasses.
You are self-centered, complacent bigots who couldn't really care less if
the U.S. government attempted to exterminate gays with contaminated
vaccines.
You deny it because that relieves you of responsibility, it preserves your
good name.
You have yet to confront what your country really is, and what it really
did. The evidence is clear enough that you could see if it you wanted,
but you do not want. You ought to see that Buchanan is a raving
lunatic, and a country that makes him such a big name has
very, very serious problems. Why, then, is it so hard to imagine a
country doing something so ugly as to contaminate vaccines?
Why were they so "concerned" to cure hepatitis in gay men, that
they recruited *way* more men than what they needed, on
any real statistical basis? Why were they so concerned about hepatitis,
then not caring the less about AIDS?
There are a few microbiologists who admited to me, in private, that
I was right, and that it was "obvious" that the vaccines were contaminated.
Yet, what one says is "obvious", the rest of you say is ridiculous. What
am I to think of the discrepancy?
You could see the truth, if you wanted. You are liars, living in denial.
You are brainwashees. You are silent Good Germans. Almost
by definition, you could never believe it about yourselves.
May your pain never end until you change your attitudes. So far,
you have only a taste of what would be proportional.
Tom Keske
Thomas Keske
> You are truly a pathetic person. A newsgroup does not mean we discuss
> general news in here. And absolutely not silly conspiracy theories from
> a demented brain. We discuss questions regarding microbiology. And you
> are insensitive bringing up tragic events regarding our colleges and
> friends.
Incidents relating to the fate of microbiologists is not "general
news", it is news related to microbiology.
The "conspiracy theory" isn't mine- I'm just passing on someone
else's article. The news reports from the mainstream papers are
interesting, and suggest a possible pattern. It is possibly just
coincidence,
to be sure, but is possibly pattern as well. The "theories" that I saw
on some of the web site links, relating to religious themes, are not
something
that I buy, at all. It is the news from the mainstream papers that is
relevant.
> Your rant about gay people and how they've been discriminated was so
> idiotic there is really no need to comment on it.
Spoken like a good German scientist. It is the gross bigotry that I have
seen so often among the hyenas on this newsgroup that make me not
care much if I am "insensitive" to you. I think that you are smug
and apathetic.
> Please refrain from posting to this newsgroup in the future unless you
> adhere to its policies.
>
Sorry, I will post forever, from time to time. I am not posting because
I like your company. The contempt is completely mutual.
I post because someone needs to say the things that you don't like to hear.
Smug, irresponsible bastards in your profession, in all probability,
sparked an AIDS epidemic, killing tens of millions of people. The
stonewalling and denial over this legitimate possibility is why I resent
the group so bitterly. Your pain is insignificant to what your cohorts
have unleashed on the world. It doesn't surprise me at all that
people like Gallo have had the trouble that they have had, as in
the incident that he related, where a student threatened him.
This incident that Gallo related is all the more reason that the
"conspiracy" theory is not "silly". There is precedent. I noted
also that the family of Dr. Wiley remarked how there were
a "lot of kooks", and this was a worry.
The "witch cult" certainly is a bunch of delusional kooks.
The student who supposedly threatened Gallo, I don't think
is merely a "kook", but someone who probably knew a bit
more than the general public concerning how suspicious the
history and research of Gallo really was.
I don't condone attacks on suspicious scientists, but I
certainly can understand the context for such things. I would
prefer to see a number of well-known researchers under
criminal investigation. The unlikelihood of any serious
investigation whatsoever is probably why vigilantism
might be in the air.
Tom Keske
>
>
Trond Erik Vee Aune
Thomas Keske wrote:
>>You are truly a pathetic person. A newsgroup does not mean we discuss
>>general news in here. And absolutely not silly conspiracy theories from
>>a demented brain. We discuss questions regarding microbiology. And you
>>are insensitive bringing up tragic events regarding our colleges and
>>friends.
>>
>
> Incidents relating to the fate of microbiologists is not "general
> news", it is news related to microbiology.
Well, this newsgroup is not for "news _related_ to microbiology", but a
discussion forum for the field of science called microbiology itself.
You can take your silly theories to alt.silly.conspiracies or something
where you'll find people in your state of "mind" (or whatever it is you
have). This is a strict academic forum, we don't discuss ridiculous
coincidence theories from demented minds. If you have any questions
about, say, bacteria, we will be of help, but I think I speak for all of
us when I say that we are not interested in adressing this theory you
are only "passing on".
Trond Erik Vee Aune
Bill_A_N...@bd.com
I would have to disagree with the idea that a microbiology newsgroup isn't
an appropriate place for news related to microbiology. And to selectively
choose to allow news based on whether or not you agree with the content
would be wrong. Now whether or not Tom's posts are truely news or belong
in alt.silly.conspiracies might be debatable.
- Bill
Sent by: owner-m...@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk
To: micr...@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk
cc:
Subject: Re: Pattern of microbiologist deaths?
Thomas Keske wrote:
Trond Erik Vee Aune
---
Bill_A_N...@bd.com
I can't say you're right or wrong in your contention regarding contaminated
vaccines. It's not my area, I don't know enough about it to make a
judgment. But I can say with the utmost certainty that you're wrong when
you contend that neither I nor others in the group care. We do care. If
what you say is true I would very much want punishment for those
responsible.
All I can ask is why I should give more credence to your said atrocities
than of the other tens of thousands of atrocities that occur all over the
world? I've been told by hundreds of people (whether it be through media
channels, internet groups, or in person) that because I turn a blind eye to
an evil that they passionately feel is corrupting the world, I'm as guilty
as the perpetrators. Under that definition there is not a single person of
the six billion populating this planet who are innocent of multiple
atrocities. I include you in this group. I'm sure individuals in the U.S.
government have committed more crimes and atrocities than just the one
you're trying to prove. I'm sure some have come to justice while others
have died free men and women. I'm sure I struggle with the fact that I'm a
good German and don't know it. Be as self righteous as you want, I'd
contend you're no different.
I hate to say it, but the reason I personally don't follow up on your
accusations and then take up arms along side you is because "it's not my
job". Yes, in one simple sentence I just carelessly relieved myself of
responsibility for the whole damn thing. As you say, this makes me a good
German. I'm just going to have to live with that as it relates to many
more things than just your HIV issue. What it also tells me is that the
reason these posts are falling on deaf ears lies in large part because
you're talking to the wrong people. I'm going to stop writing and go back
to my foolish and futile work where I'm blindly led to think that I can
help diagnose and cure human disease.
I know that my opinion makes no difference to you but I felt compelled to
post.
- Bill
BTW. A search for the term "you turn a blind eye" in Google groups turns
up over 80,000 hits. I apologize for any use of sarcasm in my reply, I've
tried to avoid it, but your use of "name calling" incites emotional
responses.
<snip>
<snip>
---
Chief Thracian
> You could see the truth, if you wanted. You are liars, living in denial.
> You are brainwashees. You are silent Good Germans. Almost
> by definition, you could never believe it about yourselves.
>
> May your pain never end until you change your attitudes. So far,
> you have only a taste of what would be proportional.
Tom, I was tracking down your latest participation in Usenet, to
discover your comments here, in "bionet.microbiology". The incredibly
cold and hostile responses to your well-researched comments is
abhorent and ghastly, to say the least. It is obvious that Amerika
intends to (continue to) use gay people for biological
experimentation. What makes this especially horrid, is that this
laboratory wickedness is virtually done in the open, due to the
hideous anti-gay attitudes running a mean streak throughout our
(supposedly-rational) scientific and research communities.
What these bigots don't seem to grasp, is not just the utter
wickedness of their stance, but the longterm results of their criminal
behavior. Which is: backlash. The best any of us activists can do at
this point, is make our remarks in these newsgroups, for the record.
We cannot expect any of them to change their tune. Destiny will not
look favorably upon such hate mongers; in fact, she will give them a
fair return on their diabolical investment. (Similar to the rude
awakening now being suffered by those arrogant yuppie capitalists,
since the collapse of the WTC towers and our economy.)
It will be no surprise to me, when Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft declare all
gays a threat to Amerikan Family Values...and then round us up for the
laboratories. Indeed, we Thracians are proving far more valuable
alive, than dead...for the most gruesome of reasons. Dare I accuse
much of the science community, as well as our present gov't, of
"Unamerikan Activities"?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
writing free of charge (including translation into any
language)...under condition that no profit is made therefrom,
and that it remain intact and complete, including title and
credit to the original author.
Ezekiel J. Krahlin
http://surf.to/gaybible
--------------------------------------------------------------
THE NEW PASSOVER HAS BEGUN
(c) 2001 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
There is a phenomenon I predicted a couple of years ago, in
the Internet newsgroups, that I call the "New Passover". This
vision revealed God (or "Nature") avenging gay people by
slaying the firstborn of every homophobic parent. (The
original Passover saw the Angel of Death slaughter the
firstborn of every Egyptian family, in order to free the
Hebrews.) It has only dawned on me a few days ago, that this
NEW PASSOVER IS ALREADY UNDER WAY: ravaging the troubled
nations of Africa. These are all areas rife with gay hatred.
This form of AIDS only strikes heteros...and only those who
stubbornly hold onto their homophobia unto the last breath.
How (you might ask) could a virus distinguish between gay
haters and gay friends? Of course, if you are spiritual in
nature, like myself, the answer is easy: "God can do
anything". However, there are also those who demand a
scientific explanation, which I now attempt:
There may be a genetic tendency toward stupidity. And it is
stupid folk who are more likely to believe the homophobic
brainwash of their churches, synagogues, mosques and covens.
Thus, a virus evolves that attacks only the stupid, who are
also heterosexual.
While AIDS ravaged gay people, the hetero majority for the
most part thought: "Let 'em die, those faggots deserve it
anyway"...never dreaming for one moment, that perhaps their
karma would come back to haunt them. And that is exactly what
has started to happen. IN A FEW MONTHS, OR EVEN WEEKS, HETERO
AIDS WILL REACH THE SHORES OF ASIA, EUROPE, AND FINALLY,
AMERIKA...WHERE IT WILL SWEEP ACROSS THE ENTIRE POPULACE,
decimating at least 35% of the entire hetero population.
Certain gay activists such as Cleve Jones, sound alarmed and
disgusted at the lack of support coming from gay people, for
the crisis of AIDS in South Africa and other non-white areas.
(See POZ magazine, Sept. 2000, "Keeping Up With The Jones",
pg. 64.) But this has nothing to do with skin color, and
everything to do with extreme, homophobic attitudes among many
cultures afflicted with run-away AIDS. WHY SHOULD WE NOW LIFT
A FINGER TO HELP THESE FOLKS, WHEN THEY MERELY SAT BACK AND
LAUGHED AT US, WHILE AIDS RAVAGED OUR FINEST AND MOST
LOVED? Why not let Gaia do Her cleansing of humanity,
rather than slow down the process of eliminating our enemies?
Fine with me, if you want to help educate South Africa about
AIDS prevention, Mr. Jones (et al). But please, don't lay an
insincere guilt trip on your gay brothers! Maybe we're too
exhausted fighting our own enormously painful battles against
Amerika's homophobic sanctions (not the least of which was
enacted by our first "gay-friendly" president, Clinton, who
signed DOMA, the infamous "Defense of Marriage Act"). It's all
well and good for Slick Willy to denounce the right wing's
homophobia. But what about his own, I ask? Maybe we already
know this: ANY HOMOPHOBE WE ASSIST TO RECOVERY AND A LONG
LIFE, WILL SURELY CONTINUE TO FLAGRANTLY BASH US ONCE HE'S
BACK ON HIS FEET...thus only makes our chances for
peaceful coexistence with heteros that much more tenuous.
Let 'em die, I say. And the nicest part of all this, is that
_Hetero AIDS will likely evolve into an airborn virus_, that
God's angels may perform their cleansing tasks that much more
quickly. Let us not forget that MOST HOMOPHOBES ARE ALSO
CHILD ABUSERS, WIFE BEATERS, RAPISTS, AND WAR MONGERS. So
celebrate your "New Passover", and thank your deity (whoever
she or he may be), for finally liberating us long-suffering
and devoted gay men and women. REJOICE, FOR SOON COMES "NEW
HANUKKAH"!
There also remains this massive problem among African Amerikan
churches: that so many of them still preach hatred of gay
people. Well, I'm not asking you blacks to help "Whitey"; and
I don't blame you for not doing so. However, please admit that
you have your own brothers and sisters of color who are indeed
homosexual! For Christ's sake, stop harassing and villifying
them: extend, finally, open arms and an open heart. For they
are Family, too. Look at it this way: Does the black community
really want to become cursed for eternity, with the ugly stain
of gay hatred on their otherwise-noble history of struggles
and liberation? I think not. So get the lead out of your
collective black asses, and do the right thing.
You may read my own colorful tale about this New Passover
here:
The Mask of Horus
http://gay-bible.0catch.com//write/2_horus.htm
Written in 1997, it is a sci-fi tale inspired by a vision of
Horus, also described in the story.
---finis
Jorge1907
Still lost in your paranoid fantasies.
Do look on the bright side, Tom. Even if true, a person as ignorant of science
as you will awlaus be safe.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Jorge1907
schtick - it is always entertaining.
Thomas Keske
Dr. Don Wiley's own friends and colleagues were first to express
disbelief that he committed suicide, not me. His wallet was still in his
pocket when his corpse floated up 320 miles downstream, so that would
tend to rule robbery as a motive.
If not suicide, or robbery, then what? It seems legitimate to imagine that
terrorists might want to put a dent in American research, if nothing else.
I've noticed Arab websites alleging biowar assaults by the U.S.
in Iraq, etc. Certainly, they would have interest at least in hampering
"defensive" biowar research. How clever of you to be so unconcerned.
If they were trying to terrorize American researchers, they obviously
failed, because too many microbiologists are too clueless to take a
hint that something might be amiss. Almost as clueless as the Pentagon's
lack of plans to deal with aerial assault, which I had also criticized
quite explicitly, a month before it happened. It was obvious enough that
the earlier crash of a small plane on the White House lawn might foreshadow
worse things. You'll have to explain to me why supposedly intelligent
experts were asleep at the wheel and missed a danger that was obvious to
an ordinary civilian. On second thought, don't bother, because you
are as as dull and lacking in insight as they were.
But you should be safe also, because you are probably too washed
up and untalented ever to make a significant contribution to American
research. They would be wasting resources to bother hurling you
off a bridge, unless they simply got impatient and wanted to
stop your insufferable prattling.
Peace be with you. May the times be interesting and
the show be ever more entertaining.
Jorge1907
Tom, you seem to have that market cornered.
I note your usual string of conditional "if" statements all leading to a
terrible end. Let me offer just one - IF you had a brain you might find
meaningful occupation rather than silly posts for which you are so well known.
Carry on poor Tom.
Thomas Keske
"Jorge1907" <jorg...@aol.comcomm> wrote in message
news:20011230082301...@mb-cr.aol.com...
> Insufferable prattle - as in your ongoing, trite and paranoid ramblings?
No
> Tom, you seem to have that market cornered.
A search of old newsgroup articles should convince
nearly anyone that Jorge1907 is a pathetic, hate-filled,
right-wing curmudgeon with nothing better
to do with his time than to play provocateur with nearly everyone
with whom he comes in contact. Observe him below, calling
names and hurling insults like a 5 year-old, and spelling about
as well as one.
Watch him in action as he fights with Jane, Julia, William, Amos, Fred,
Scott, John, etc, not to mention hurling abuse at
Carl Sagan, Hillary Clinton, the Vice President, etc. Note his great
compassion, as he sadistically calls for exterminating wildlife,
just to be in the face of the environmentalists
and animal lovers. See the art-form of his bigotry, when he laughs
off genetic deformities of children, so long as they are Arab.
Listen to the sick, little man go, in his own words....
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Allied attacks blamed for birth of deformed children
Newsgroups: sci.med
View: Complete Thread (3 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2001-12-14 03:49:41 PST
Fewer terrorists then?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
======================================================
Search Result 10
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Arab virus?
Newsgroups: sci.bio.misc
View: Complete Thread (82 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2001-12-14 03:35:42 PST
Let's see - if we don't kill them - they won't kill us? But 9/11 indicates
that they will kill us without our action on them. Better we kill them -
esp
the ones associated with/supporting Bin Laden - the tape was pretty good
evidenmce for me.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=============================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Save all the animals .Even the smallest !
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/03/18
Death to all anmals - the smallest to the largest.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
========================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Save the Wildlife
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (3 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/03/18
Death to wildlife!!!!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
===========================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Newspapers = Deforestation
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/03/03
Earth's lungs - what an idiot! It is probably easier for this jackass to
understand an inaccurate and melodramatic analogy than understand the actual
science involved.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=============================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: ok educate me
Newsgroups: sci.bio.microbiology
View: Complete Thread (4 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/02/26
Suggest this energy be invested in a pursuit with greater opportunity than
trying to break into an area without even rudimentary credentials.
Good luck!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=======================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Pure Silliness WAS: Jane Lubchenco's article, Earth's Unruly
Tenant, online.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 2000/02/05
Another idiot article. Thnaks sooo much.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Lie-Spewing Pharmaceutical Industry Bastards !!! (was Re:
George Carter In sci.med.aids you said)
Newsgroups: sci.med
View: Complete Thread (5 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/01/03
I understand you are ignorant, fred. But why are you so angry? Because you
are ignorant- and who's fault is that?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Environmental Crime Series of Novels
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2000/01/02
Very melodramatic! Any chance you could try nonfiction?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=============================================
Search Result 32
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Julia "Butterfly" Hill ends two-year vigil
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (32 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/12/20
The flake is out of the tree.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=========================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Did a vaccine cause AIDS?
Newsgroups: sci.med
View: Complete Thread (51 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/12/15
What silliness - thnaks so much for passing on this fatuous crap.
AIDS is an apparition? It seems prettty real, doesn't it? Scieintists
"desparate" efforts to obscure its origin? Where do you (or the jackass who
wrote this) get that? The author is more concerned with turning his stuffy
phrases than making sense.
Next time you feel an urge to pass on junk like this, go have a beer.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
====================================================
Search Result 36
From: Scott Roberts (sco...@mindspring.com)
Subject: Re: JAMA vitamin C article errors
Newsgroups: sci.med
View: Complete Thread (3 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/12/05
jorg...@aol.comcom (Jorge1907) wrote:
>You're full out it - and not vitamin C.
>There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
>Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
I appreciate your art. Do you have any science to back it up?
================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Extinction Point
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (10 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/12/04
Amos is a jackass
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
==========================================
Search Result 45
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Some Heroes Step Forward to Protect WetLands!!!
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/26
"we"? You have a mouse in your pocket?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Search Result 44
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Well known Indian activist Medha Patkar speaks in the DC metro
area
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/26
Never heard of her.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Search Result 47
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: The First Lady's connection to planet Earth [x12]
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (3 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/26
Right Tiddy - we all know that Hillary has no connection to the Planet
Earth.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Total tree cover (was... Texas...)
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (7 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/24
Oh great the impressions of William the all knowing!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=======================================
From: col...@my-deja.com (col...@my-deja.com)
Subject: Re: The stench of environmentalism
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (11 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/23
In article <19991123053853...@ng-fa1.aol.com>,
jorg...@aol.comcom (Jorge1907) wrote:
> Stick your straw man - Limbaugh was not the subject and was not offered as
a
> scientiifc resource. One need merely look at the posts here to see the
paucity
> of any scientific consideration. They are primarily the repition of some
scare
> report of doubtful validity (ala "Rachel") - usually accompnaied with the
> fatuous comment to the effect "when will they learn (stage sigh)."
>
> Yes decision to use MTBE receeded Clinton. Sorry perhaps the comment was
too
> obscure for you. Look at Clinton/Browner record in getting it out and
taking
> appropriate action AND in attempting to regulate without legislative
mandate
> AND in misrepresenting science. That is corruption.
>
> Understand?
Understand what? That you were not clear and concise in your comments?
Or that you just jumping to a nonsequitur for no apparent reason?
If you are going to talk about MTBE talk about the decision process,
don't go off on a political rant.
The US EPA has a legislative mandiate, and a bloody moral one, to
protect human health and the environment.
> Clinton/Browner record in getting it out and taking
> appropriate action AND in attempting to regulate without legislative
mandate
> AND in misrepresenting science. That is corruption.
By no legal definition, is this corruption. Perhaps malfeasance if it
were true, but not corruption.
In light the US EPA's policies towards RFG I, and RFG II, as required
by the CAAA of 1990, what actions do you have a problem with?
================================================
Search Result 54
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Enviro-solution hinges on peace process (was Re: Environmental
problems: the unique solution)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (9 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/23
A sociologist AND a psychiatrist in one confused person, no doubt PhD's in
both
- what a phenomenon.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=========================================================
From: John McCarthy (j...@Steam.Stanford.EDU)
Subject: Re: the ocean lakes rivers ponds h20
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (8 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/21
jorg...@aol.comcom (Jorge1907) writes:
> Glad YOU folks agree. This brain trust notwithstanding, does anyone have
any
> real data on projected water supplies and their purity?
Note that water supply is not a global problem but is many local
problems. While oil can be profitably shipped from the Persian Gulf
to the US or Japan, water, except for drinking water, cannot be
shipped very long distances. The reason is the enormous bulk needed so
that transporting water is the largest expense in having it.
See http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/water.html for a
discussion of various water supply problems.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
=================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Enviro-solution hinges on peace process (was Re: Environmental
problems: the unique solution)
Newsgroups: sci.med
View: Complete Thread (23 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/21
"F***"? Amend my message - you are an illiterate butthead.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
=======================================================
Search Result 67
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Statement by Vice President on Environmental Executive
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/21
Oh great, the vice-liar speaks!
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: indoor air quality, was: Re: New York Post: City Tops In Cancer
Newsgroups: talk.environment
View: Complete Thread (7 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/21
You can gather little with that inadequate brain. Try to find some lit.
that
supports your jackass assertions.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Environment: Problem Solved
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (3 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/21
Right - the butthead original poster would deny all opposition - not unlike
Stalin or Hillary.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
==================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: Kemp: On Kyoto, The Issue Is Power (CEI On Point)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
View: Complete Thread (5 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/20
Daniel:
so glad you could offer us a cute comment.
Kemp notwithstanding, Kyoto will do NOTHING for the environment. Not a
single
scienitific projection offers any benefit from the treaty. It is merely an
expensive gesture.
Your children are laughing at you.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
================================================
From: Jorge1907 (jorg...@aol.comcom)
Subject: Re: 100 Most Important Science Books
Newsgroups: sci.bio.misc
View: Complete Thread (21 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/11/14
Spoken like a true nonscientist.
How about the 100 greatest thoughts or articles? Othwise we end up with
buttheads like Sagan or Hawkins.
=================================================
Jorge1907
Please attempt to leatn some logic - esp. search for and learn the concept of
ad hominem arguements. You see, poor Tom, attacking the source or speaker
rahter than the argument itself is an error in logic. anyone searching for my
name would find it associated with technical discussion - unless I were
debunking one of your erred posts (just now and then - correcting all would be
a herculean task)..
No Tom, unlike you, I am a scientist and do understand microbiology. Your
information consistently shows a lack of understanding of things technical.
Fuirther, I have made the observation that, like other humans, scientists do
die and these deaths are not of necessity the results of governmental plots.
Also Tom, folks might read more of your posts if you could be succinct and more
focused.
Good luck Tom.
Thomas Keske
:
>
> Please attempt to leatn some logic - esp. search for and learn the concept
of
> ad hominem arguements. You see, poor Tom, attacking the source or speaker
> rahter than the argument itself is an error in logic. anyone searching for
my
You don't attack speakers, you say? After the long list of your quotes,
calling various people "jackasses" and "buttheads", etc.?
You are utterly insane.
Sure, let's attack the ideas, not the speaker. Ok. Fair 'nuff.
Your ideas are the ideas of a jackass.
> No Tom, unlike you, I am a scientist and do understand microbiology. Your
> information consistently shows a lack of understanding of things
technical.
> Fuirther, I have made the observation that, like other humans, scientists
do
> die and these deaths are not of necessity the results of governmental
plots.
No where did I suggest that the microbiologists deaths were a "government
plot".
The suggestion was that terrorism, or some other unknown connection,
might have something to do with it. It is only a suggestion, not something
ever
presented as fact. It is a valid suggestion, since the FBI was worried
about
the same thing.
That original article was something that I did not even write- I glanced
at it, it looked interesting, I reposted it, reflexively. Some of the
suggestions
in the web site links, I most emphatically do *not* agree with, particulary
the ones that delved into religious themes, for which I have no stomach.
The raw reporting of the facts, and the hints of possible pattern, were
the only things of interest.
I cannot believe that any serious scientist would have time to waste on
newsgroups, spewing all the drivel and personal attack, which you do
to such a degree that it would be a full-time job, in itself. You are a
person with very serious problems. You need some counselling.
Please provideus with recently published studies that we can verify
on Pubmed or some other source, in which you have participated.
I have serious doubts that you could have much in the way of
credentials.
Jorge1907
there but let me at accept some advice that will contribute to a sea change in
your posts - meaning.
Balance. Offering a tome in reponse to every brief epistle will deter most
readers. This is esp. true if done in detail (i.e. separately commenting on
each sentence) as you have here.
Logic. Please also reread the post to which you last responded. Ad hominem
(note your "jackass" and"butthead") is not a logical form of argument. I
realize that logic is not your strength and have seen none to this point.
Perhaps you could find a ref text to help (search "logic" at Amazon.com).
Pop Psychology. I fear you watch too much Oprah, Tom. Really, most folks in
real life don't accept as valid or useful the analysis of an educated, serial
poster on the net.
Microbiology. Suggest the many years of hard work and study needed to become
edcuated and proficient in this discipline will make it difficult for you to
even understand the most basic concepts. Whereas I hate to discourage an
apparently unemployed person with your energy and free time, it is hard work
hard and will expose your flawed beliefs to real microbiologists (such as I)
who will dismiss most of your ideas.
Good luck, Tom, and please remember that we value your posts as wonderful
entertainment. The thought even occurs that you are a real microbiologist who
is "jerking our chain" with erred science and craziness. If so, you should
take your show on the road to the next ASM.
Thomas Keske
> Logic. Please also reread the post to which you last responded. Ad
hominem
> (note your "jackass" and"butthead") is not a logical form of argument. I
> realize that logic is not your strength and have seen none to this point.
> Perhaps you could find a ref text to help (search "logic" at Amazon.com).
>
Jesus H Christ. The references to "jackass" and "butthead" happened
to be quotes from *your* own past articles, you ridiculous hypocrite.
Not that they don't apply to you also. Those kinds of references
are peppered throughout your posts to environmental newsgroups, etc.
It is part of why I think that you are an imposter, with a loose screw.
I hate to tell you this, but things that you post on newsgroups linger
around for quite a while, and can be looked up, easily. You were
reading the ghosts of Jorge1907 Past.
Jorge1907
terms "butthead" and "jackass" were forced onto you by my alleged historic
posts?
Of course Tom! Poor Tom.