pancham yahoo group
rk_u...@yahoo.com
~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed w.r.t Pancham egroup -- they do come across as blind followers. I
respect
some of them for their knowledge and understanding of Pancham's music but
they are not open-minded about this whole RDB plagiarising discussion. Ketan
(mostly)
has tried to bring up these discussions and sometimes I have pitched in only
to see
a nasty behavior from the group's members.
Its understandable to a little extent since the group was created to
appreciate RDB's talents
and these guys are his worshippers -- but I don't know why people prefer
blindness over objectivity.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ritu wrote:-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I also came across this egroup. I basically did a search for SDB(I was
in a love SDB phase at that time) and I was pretty amazed to see most
of the threads on SDB were basically discussions on
a) How all his best songs were actually RDB compositions. Right from
the 50's till the 70's
b) How it was RDB that propped up SDB for most part of his career. SDB
though talented did not really have it in him.
c) How SDB spent his productive years either having a heart attack or
watching football matches or was out to have a paan while his
assistants did all the work
d)SDB had no idea about western music/ Chords etc. so it HAD to be RDB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lemme add:-
The most ridiculous threads are about RDB's 80s movies with
excuses overflowing on why his movies flopped. Per them,
the onslaught of video in late 80s killed RDB films. Oh yeah.
Video business affected *only* RDB movies and not Laxmi Pyare
and Bappi Lahiri movies. Wake up and smell coffee.
Ketan,
Now u understand why I said "RDB fans live in Denial mode
all the time". RDB sucked in 80s not because of all those
flimsy excuses, but bcos his songs were out of tune with
the public.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>Lemme add:-
>Ketan,
>
>Now u understand why I said "RDB fans live in Denial mode
>all the time". RDB sucked in 80s not because of all those
>flimsy excuses, but bcos his songs were out of tune with
>the public.
Wake up and get some glasses. If you are going to cite something as a reference
atleast cite it correctly and in its entirety. What you have given is just ONE
of the reasons that was cited for RD's failure in the 80s. And incidentally,
just because some RDB fan somewhere does happen to like his 80s songs and you do
not, does not automatically make him a blind follower. But then logic, reasoning
and intelligence were never your strong points. In the end both his fans and you
share the same disease--blindness. You in your hatred, they in their love. This
is a case of the blind leading the blind.
Ketan
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
piss ant. now are u trying to prove u are blind also.
I am not the only one who opines that pancham group is
full of fanatics. Arun Verma and Ritu also said the
same. read this thread .
so why don't u flame them.
RK-
Shalini Razdan
<rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3C6DAC68...@yahoo.com...
> u have given sufficient demonstration of being an arrogant
> piss ant. now are u trying to prove u are blind also.
> I am not the only one who opines that pancham group is
> full of fanatics. Arun Verma and Ritu also said the
> same. read this thread .
Aw, quit whining you big baby. You're just sore coz the panchamites won't
let you into their little group. They well may be a bunch of fanatics, but
Arun, Ketan and Anindya's posts have shown that the panchamites DO tolerate
dissent. They just don't tolerate YOU and that's what rankles!
Cheers,
Shalini
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Aw, quit whining you big baby. You're just sore coz the panchamites won't
> let you into their little group. They well may be a bunch of fanatics, but
> Arun, Ketan and Anindya's posts have shown that the panchamites DO tolerate
> dissent. They just don't tolerate YOU and that's what rankles!
Shalini,
I don't know whether to call u stupid or naive or both.
It is *they* who claim that they tolerate dissent. Shouldn't it
be RDB critics who should claim that.
Who defines what is the level of dissent. They???
This is the biggest problem with any moderated forum.
Majority decides what they will read and what *others*
will read.
I have replied twice to pancham egroup. As I am not
a member it went to Vinay Jain. He refused to post
that message in that group. Oh yeah, they do tolerate
dissent.
RK-
Shalini Razdan
<rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3C6E854D...@yahoo.com...
> Shalini Razdan wrote:
>
>
> > Aw, quit whining you big baby. You're just sore coz the panchamites
won't
> > let you into their little group. They well may be a bunch of fanatics,
but
> > Arun, Ketan and Anindya's posts have shown that the panchamites DO
tolerate
> > dissent. They just don't tolerate YOU and that's what rankles!
>
>
> Shalini,
>
> I don't know whether to call u stupid or naive or both.
Call me Shalini. :-)
> It is *they* who claim that they tolerate dissent. Shouldn't it
> be RDB critics who should claim that.
>
> Who defines what is the level of dissent. They???
Within any *private* group, it's members decide the group's rules of
governance including what level and type of dissent they will allow.
> This is the biggest problem with any moderated forum.
> Majority decides what they will read and what *others*
> will read.
Now who is being naive? Moderated groups are by definition restrictive in
content and access. On a public forum like rmim, you can say whatever you
want about RDB. A moderated group like the pancham egroup has the absolute
right to judge and decide whether you will be a constructive contributor to
the group or not.
> I have replied twice to pancham egroup. As I am not
> a member it went to Vinay Jain. He refused to post
> that message in that group. Oh yeah, they do tolerate
> dissent.
Let me repeat: excluding you from their egroup doesn't mean the pancham
group has no tolerance for dissent. It simply means that they have no use
for your style of dissent. And having read your myopic, bumper-stickerish
comments on RDB countless times on rmim, I hardly blame them.
Shalini
> RK-
>
>
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Within any *private* group, it's members decide the group's rules of
> governance including what level and type of dissent they will allow.
Translation: Only dissent they will allow is what it is
palatable to them.
> Now who is being naive? Moderated groups are by definition restrictive in
> content and access.
Translation: RDB hyping is a valid content, RDB bashing is not.
>A
>moderated group like the pancham egroup has the absolute
>right to judge and decide whether you will be a constructive contributor to
>the group or not.
There is something more which they do. They also decide what
others should read.
> Let me repeat: excluding you from their egroup doesn't mean the pancham
> group has no tolerance for dissent.
Given ur IQ, it is hardly surprising that you have interpreted
it like that. Unlike you I have gone thru the messages in that
group. I can categorically say there is no dissent there, unless
a statement like "RDB didn't give good music in films like
Sholay/Shaan" is deemed as a dissent. Or RDB was not that
good in Qawalees is deemed as a big dissent.
>It simply means that they have no use
>for your style of dissent.
It also means that they don't want to read any *real" criticism
of RDB. And given the kind of mails Karthik S has received from
music lovers ...err... RDB fans, it is hardly surprising.
RK-
Shalini Razdan
<rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3C6EA851...@yahoo.com...
> It also means that they don't want to read any *real" criticism
> of RDB. And given the kind of mails Karthik S has received from
> music lovers ...err... RDB fans, it is hardly surprising.
>
Get it through your thick head you pompous ass, endlessly parroting "RDB is
a mahachor" is NOT real criticism. Your inability to reason beyond that
single thought is what keeps you out of the pancham egroup.
Anyway, you begin to bore me, so I'll leave you to rant in your corner
alone.
Shalini
> RK-
>
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Get it through your thick head you pompous ass
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thanks for starting this name calling. No I will
have no qualms returning the favor.
fucking idiot, u can never give a convincing reason
as to why RDB fans and *only* RDB fans have to resort to
sending abusive mails to Karthik for his website.
AFAIK RDB is not the only chor listed in that
site.
Does that tell something about the tolerance level
of RDB fans.
Did it peneterate ur thick skull. I doubt it, given
that you have demonstrated in abundance that u are
a fucking idiot.
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Get it through your thick head you pompous ass, endlessly parroting "RDB is
> a mahachor" is NOT real criticism.
idiot, read this and weep.
Arun Varma wrote:-
>Ketan (mostly)
>has tried to bring up these discussions and sometimes I have
>pitched in only to see
>a nasty behavior from the group's members.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does it tell something about that pancham egroup.
Didn't I tell you that u are a fucking idiot.
RK-
naniwadekar
>
> > Get it through your thick head you pompous ass
>
Then, Ravi Krishna added -
>
> thanks for starting this name calling. No I will
> have no qualms returning the favor.
>
> fucking idiot... Did it peneterate ur thick skull.
>
The thread is beginning to sound like RDB's music.
Could we play more sober tunes, please?
- dn
Anindya
> Shalini Razdan wrote:
>
> > Get it through your thick head you pompous ass
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> thanks for starting this name calling. No I will
> have no qualms returning the favor.
>
> fucking idiot,
RK...u forgot the smileys, or are they in short supply at the moment
:)
Anindya
P.S: I guess the smiley at the end of MY post grants me diplomatic
immunity, since it now qualifies for "light humor"
Anindya
> The thread is beginning to sound like RDB's music.
> Could we play more sober tunes, please?
ok, here are some:
Ghar aaja ghir ghir
Aaja piya tohe pyar doo.n
Mera kuchh saamaan
Is moD pe jaate hai
Kuchh to log kahenge
Kabhi kabhi sapnaa lagtaa hai
...more?
Anindya
Shalini Razdan
<rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3C6EBD13...@yahoo.com...
> Shalini Razdan wrote:
>
> > Get it through your thick head you pompous ass
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> thanks for starting this name calling.
Started? Let's see your very first response to me began with : "Shalini, I
don't know whether to call u stupid...." Followed in your second post by:
"Given ur IQ,..."
What were those, compliments? Profane people like you don't need an excuse
to spew invectives, it comes naturally.
Shalini
rk_u...@yahoo.com
>Profane people like you don't need an excuse
>to spew invectives, it comes naturally.
By the same token, Stupid logic comes naturally to
congenital idiots like you.
You still haven't answered why Karthik recvd
abusive mails from RDB fans and only RDB fans.
Why Arun Verma recvd nasty response when he tried
to bring up the topic of RDB's copying disease.
Does it tell something about RDB fans?
But why should u find it objectionable? Afterall it takes
one to know one.
RK-
Ashok
>
Ravi, you started this followup with:
>By the same token, Stupid logic comes naturally to
>congenital idiots like you.
and ended it with:
>Afterall it takes one to know one.
>
>RK-
What's going on? :)
Ribbing apart, I have a question: How exactly did it come about
that you weren't allowed to join the RDN discussion group? That is,
was it the case that you emailed for membership and were turned down;
or was it the case that you submitted an article (or more than
one) and they refused to publish it to the group?
My guess is that it's the latter, because you have apparently
read some the articles written by members of the group. If that's
the case, have you retained a copy of the article you tried to
send to the group? I would be interested in reading it. Then
we can form a better idea of the mindset of the group.
If what you wrote consisted only of name-calling (e.g., mahaa chor
or worse), the group would have my sumpathies. On the other hand,
if it was an objective and coolly written analysis of RDB's
copying tendencies, I'd join you in condemning the group. It'd
be interesting if your contribution to the group was abusive AND
informative! In that case, .. well, let's have a look, if
possible.
Ashok
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Ribbing apart, I have a question: How exactly did it come about
> that you weren't allowed to join the RDN discussion group?
bcos I never recvd any confirmation from Vinay when I wanted
to make a member. Vinay would appreciate that I made it clear
that I am joining for only flaming.
Of my memory this were the 2 posts I made, which Vinay
replied to me but didn's post it.
1. Someone wrote that RDB once cried when Amit Kumar
sang. The sentiment was that since RDB cried, AK should
be a fine singer.
I replied back "big deal. Kumar Sanu
claims the same about 1942 ALS song. i wouldn't give
any importane to pancham crying. he seems to be like
nirupa roy, crying for every damn thing".
RESULT: NOT PUBLISHED.
2. Someone claimed "even his mediocre songs are better
than the best of other composers".
I replied "you mean, 75% of his songs are better than
the songs of LP/Kalyanjni".
RESULT: NOT PUBLISHED.
I would appreciate Vinay posting it, if he has the copy.
Certainly there was no reference to maha chor etc.
Promise :-)
RK-
ajit
Yes Anindya - for sure.
1)aur kya ehd-e-wafa hote hain
2)neend nahin aati, badi lambi raat hai, jaane kya baat hai
3)gori tori painjaniyaan
4)na ja mere humdum
5)kya janoon sajan
6)o mere pyar aaja
7)the bhajan in pati-patni
8)raina beeti jaye
9)bada natkhat hai re
10)mere angana aaye re ghanshyam aaye re
11)piya baanwari
12)bheeni bheeni bhor aaye
13)abke na saawan barse
14)naam gum jaayega
15)beeti na bitayi raina
16)aeri pawan dhoondhe kise tera man
17)kucchh to log kahenge
18)chingaari koi bhadke.
Much of RDBs 80S output and much from the 70s too, IMO sucks, but that
does not in any way detract from some gems that he has left behind (a
few listed up here), one of the last few being the brilliant Kavita
Krishnamurthy song from 1942 love story - "kyon naye lag rahein".
If someone says these songs are BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD, then its sure
prejudice or just another personal choice.
Bye,
ajit
ajit
> than the best of other composers".
>
RK -
My god, I must say that someone, who said this, is a MAD RDB fan. The
statement's sure an exaggeration.
I personally feel RDB, though very great, has been highly overrated,
overhyped.
Composers like he,LP,KA were great, but they all were IMO responsible
for the general degradation in quality of HFM ever since the mid 70s.
Anindya
> than the best of other composers".
>
> I replied "you mean, 75% of his songs are better than
> the songs of LP/Kalyanjni".
Yes
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> My god, I must say that someone, who said this, is a MAD RDB fan. The
> statement's sure an exaggeration.
>
> I personally feel RDB, though very great, has been highly overrated,
> overhyped.
> Composers like he,LP,KA were great, but they all were IMO responsible
> for the general degradation in quality of HFM ever since the mid 70s.
Fully agreed.
Unfortunately pancham fans love freedom of speech in only
one way: In hyping RDB.
The two examples I gave were hardly abusive. It was just a tame
sarcastic flame. The fact that it wasn't published speaks
volumes of their tolerance level.
You must read it and have a good laugh.
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> My god, I must say that someone, who said this, is a MAD RDB fan. The
> statement's sure an exaggeration.
How would u feel if I say that majority of music lovers ...err.. RDB
fans in that group would agree with him. here is one, Anindya:-
====================================
2. Someone claimed "even his mediocre songs are better
> than the best of other composers".
>
> I replied "you mean, 75% of his songs are better than
> the songs of LP/Kalyanjni".
Yes
Anindya
====================================
And the joke is that this chap claims in another thread
that knowledge of panchamites in egroup is high.
No wonder they have 0 tolerance for any criticism of
RDB.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>And the joke is that this chap claims in another thread
>that knowledge of panchamites in egroup is high.
>
>No wonder they have 0 tolerance for any criticism of
>RDB.
But but...we have yet to see ANY criticism from you. I mean criticisms of the
kind Ashok has asked for : objective, analytical etc etc. I understand that is
asking way too much of you, but you can hardly expect to receive an Oscar when
you don't even show up for one day of shooting do you?
Also do explain why you selectively respond to only some posts? For example you
have run away with your tail between your legs when Karthik makes a statement
like :
"It doesnt help if you generalise the entire group as a bunch of ***
lic****. Thats not fair too. I've gained immensely from the
discussions out there. And for every RDB fan who asked me to take a hike there
were people who were extremely balanced and had learnt how to appreciate RDB's
music despite the inspirations."
You have also not responded to my detailed post proving that the only reason you
want to be allowed into the RD group is to create mischief and hence keeping you
out IS the right decision. I take it your silence means you agree with Vinay's
decision.
Amused to see ki Ravi Krishna ki "Phat gayee"? :)
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
>You have also not responded to my detailed post proving that the only reason you
>want to be allowed into the RD group is to create mischief
Mischief???
As I did in the two post (attached below).
Sure if that was mischief, then I agree that Vinay did
took the right decision. I am sorry that I offended
so many RDB fans.
============================================
1. Someone wrote that RDB once cried when Amit Kumar
sang. The sentiment was that since RDB cried, AK should
be a fine singer.
I replied back "big deal. Kumar Sanu
claims the same about 1942 ALS song. i wouldn't give
any importane to pancham crying. he seems to be like
nirupa roy, crying for every damn thing".
RESULT: NOT PUBLISHED.
2. Someone claimed "even his mediocre songs are better
than the best of other composers".
I replied "you mean, 75% of his songs are better than
the songs of LP/Kalyanjni".
RESULT: NOT PUBLISHED.
==============================================
Care to comment on the above two posts. Does it
maintain the 'high' standards of pancham group,
or as usual u will selectively ignore it to ur
advantage.
Aab kitnee baar teri phategee. But then I guess,
in order to be a RDB fanatic, one must be mentally
prepared to be a phati ***d.
RK-
SKalra902
RK:
My impression from your posts on this thread (keeping in mind your previous
ones on others), is that whenever soemone has disagreed/argued with your posts,
you have started insulting posts against the RMIMer(s), using profane language,
which does not behoove your excellent knowledge on the HFM. I recall the war
of words between you and Mr. Anand Tiwari a few years ago on some subject.
RDB may have copied, maybe a lot (I say that with a reservation, though), but
the point is does that make his compositions bad! I would be hard pressed to
name any MDs from the 50's and later years who have not been 'inspired' by
foregin tunes. Look at Shankar Jaikishan, they did that a lot. In the modern
day music scene, even ARR has been doing it. Does that make 'lifitng' tunes
acceptable? No. But to name just one - RDB - as a "mahaachor" in particular
shows some kind of your prejudice against him.
Yes, you can have your preferences, and all that, and so can others. If the
RDB egroup (the one 'moderated'/'led'/'created'.. by Vinay Jain) is a private
egroup, I agree with the nettors who maintain that it is within the group's
rights to accept/reject whoever they wish to. To dissent is good; to be able
to accept dissent is even better.
We should all be continually broadening our outlook, but it seems that is
asking for too much, even if we all claim ourselves as 'enlightned'
citizens/residents of the new 'global' world.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Ket...@att.net
>
>Ket...@att.net wrote:
>
>>You have also not responded to my detailed post proving that the only reason you
>>want to be allowed into the RD group is to create mischief
>
>
>Mischief???
Ok...I correct myself. You wanted to "flame people" as you yourself stated.
>As I did in the two post (attached below).
>
>Sure if that was mischief, then I agree that Vinay did
>took the right decision. I am sorry that I offended
>so many RDB fans.
>Care to comment on the above two posts. Does it
>maintain the 'high' standards of pancham group,
>or as usual u will selectively ignore it to ur
>advantage.
Sure I will comment. Unlike you, I am no coward.
As you yourself said :
"The two examples I gave were hardly abusive. It was just a tame
sarcastic flame."
Your words not mine. And Vinay does not need just these two posts to not allow
you into his group. He has been/was a member of RMIM and your antics on here are
very well known to anyone who has been on here for even a few months. He is well
aware of what you are capable of once allowed in. So your offering these two
points in an attempt to portray yourself as holier than thou are nothing but a
convenient misrepresentation of the facts. Once again you stand exposed as
nothing but a liar, who will resort to any means to further his agenda.
Can you tell me why in all these years we have yet to see one objective post
from you on RDB analyzing his music. You say you like Aandhi/Ijaazat, his
original works. Care to comment on those? C'mon you are given a chance to speak
up. Care to shed that cloak of cowardice?
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
Satishji,
> My impression from your posts on this thread (keeping in mind your
previous
> ones on others), is that whenever soemone has disagreed/argued with
your posts,
> you have started insulting posts against the RMIMer(s), using profane
language,
> which does not behoove your excellent knowledge on the HFM. I recall
the war
> of words between you and Mr. Anand Tiwari a few years ago on some
subject.
Even though I use abusive language, sometime it is a result
of provocation from the other side. I have a vague recollection
of my flame war with Anand, which was ages ago. After that he and I are
very coordial in emails.
>
> RDB may have copied, maybe a lot (I say that with a reservation,
though), but
> the point is does that make his compositions bad! I would be hard
pressed to
> name any MDs from the 50's and later years who have not been
'inspired' by
> foregin tunes. Look at Shankar Jaikishan, they did that a lot. In
the modern
> day music scene, even ARR has been doing it. Does that make
'lifitng' tunes
> acceptable? No. But to name just one - RDB - as a "mahaachor" in
particular
> shows some kind of your prejudice against him.
WHy is that RDB's list is huge in Karthik's site. Yes Nadeem Shravan
and Anu Malik beat him, but then we are talking about RDB. If you want
an objective statement, here it is. RDB was mahachor and so are
Anu Malik and co :-)
Ketan wrote:-
>As you yourself said :
>"The two examples I gave were hardly abusive. It was just a tame
>sarcastic flame."
>Your words not mine. And Vinay does not need just these two posts to
>not allow
>you into his group. He has been/was a member of RMIM and your antics
on >here are
>very well known to anyone who has been on here for even a few months.
what does it tell about 'brave' folks like you who can't
take on 1 flamer, eh?
I am willing to take on all RDB fans in that forum, alone.
All while maintaining 'high' standards of decency of that
forum. Vinay can easily disbar me if I violate the standards
of that forum. One abusive post and my membership can be
canceled. Is the thought still scary for 'brave' folks
like you.
>Can you tell me why in all these years we have yet to see one
objective >post
>from you on RDB analyzing his music. You say you like Aandhi/Ijaazat,
>his
>original works. Care to comment on those? C'mon you are given a chance
>to speak. Care to shed that cloak of cowardice?
Pls look up a dictionary for the meaning of brave,
before u assume urself to be one. If u are one, or any of
ur that group, u wouldn't be scared of one person.
I will speak in favor of RDB [ can you in all honesty say that
I didn't speak in his favor, in our email exchange].
but that will be in that forum. not here.
However I will also write against him.
It's give and take. How's the deal 'brave' man.
>>There are folks who can do much better job at it
>>without being RDB fans.
>But if they heard RDB's music, they would be his fans no?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
only by using ur logic.
From where you got the idea that only RDB fans
have listened to his songs.
I have heard tons of LP songs. Does
that make me LP fan. I am sure you must have
also heard lot of Rafi songs. Are you his fan?
RK-
Ket...@att.net
says...
>My impression from your posts on this thread (keeping in mind your previous
>ones on others), is that whenever soemone has disagreed/argued with your posts,
>you have started insulting posts against the RMIMer(s), using profane language,
Not just insulting posts. He also starts ignoring posts that are inconvenient
and starts lying thru his teeth to cover up his own mistakes. After which he
starts tries to gain sympathy by portraying himself as the victim of some
right-wing/left-wing forces. The last mentioned stage is the one we currently
see him in now. He will do his best to act as if the whole world is against him.
But when you try to pin him down and ask him to come up with one legitimate post
he won't. He will cite excuses, reasons whatever he can to duck away from that
responsibility. This is his standard pattern. Infact we could include RK and his
antics in the FAQ too. It anyways comes up once every few months.
>Yes, you can have your preferences, and all that, and so can others. If the
>RDB egroup (the one 'moderated'/'led'/'created'.. by Vinay Jain) is a private
>egroup, I agree with the nettors who maintain that it is within the group's
>rights to accept/reject whoever they wish to. To dissent is good; to be able
>to accept dissent is even better.
Exactly and I wish RK would practice what he preached. If he so desperately
wants the RDB group to accept his dissent, why is he not able to tolerate any
dissent against himself in the first place?
In article <3C714462...@yahoo.com>, rk_u...@yahoo.com says...
>Even though I use abusive language, sometime it is a result
>of provocation from the other side. I have a vague recollection
I did not see any provocation from anyone when you started this whole thing by
calling the RDB group a bunch of a** lickers. Resorting to lies once again huh?
>WHy is that RDB's list is huge in Karthik's site. Yes Nadeem Shravan
>and Anu Malik beat him, but then we are talking about RDB. If you want
So basically it hurts you that it is RD's list that is so huge. In short you are
nothing but a closet fanatic, who is angry that the MD you think is the greatest
has such a huge list. It has to be the case since you seem to object to only
RD's list and give a hoot about N-S or Anu Mallick. Gee...I had you all wrong.
You are an even bigger RD fanatic than all us RD group members put together.
Ofcourse by your own logic, you are now incapable of judging music, good music
or RDB's music. I am touched by this love and devotion of yours.
>an objective statement, here it is. RDB was mahachor and so are
>Anu Malik and co :-)
If you cite this as an objective statement, it shows that you really ARE
incapable of serious debate.:)
>what does it tell about 'brave' folks like you who can't
>take on 1 flamer, eh?
It tells us that Vinay was smart in rejecting your membership application.
>I am willing to take on all RDB fans in that forum, alone.
OK..go start your own RDB forum. Chances are..you WILL be alone.
>All while maintaining 'high' standards of decency of that
Would these be the same 'high' standards we have witnessed for the last 6-7
years on RMIM?
>forum. Vinay can easily disbar me if I violate the standards
>of that forum. One abusive post and my membership can be
>canceled.
I have news for you. He has disbarred you. You have already violated the
standards on RMIM itself. There is therefore no guarantee that you can maintain
it on the RD group.
>I will speak in favor of RDB
Really when? Wait let me get my Palm..and clear all my meetings for that day.
>but that will be in that forum. not here.
Ahhh....once again the words of a coward. Sorry dude. Prove yourself capabale of
something first on here.
>However I will also write against him.
>It's give and take. How's the deal 'brave' man.
Fine..do so on RMIM. I will forward your posts to Vinay, if something
intelligent does come out of you for a change. Then I will personally recommend
to Vinay that you be allowed in. Is that a deal or are you going to run scared
again?
>I have heard tons of LP songs. Does
>that make me LP fan. I am sure you must have
I don't know about that. All I can say is that if you have heard tons of L-P
songs, you have bad taste in music.
>also heard lot of Rafi songs. Are you his fan?
Yes!
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> So basically it hurts you that it is RD's list that is so huge.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
do u even think b4 posting or is that a mutually exclusive
excercise. RDBs list shouldn't hurt me bcos I already *knew*
his aukat when it comes to copying. Speak for urself. it
should hurt only those who think he was highly original/creative.
The same folks who sent abusive mails to Karthik.
> Fine..do so on RMIM. I will forward your posts to Vinay, if something
> intelligent does come out of you for a change. Then I will personally recommend
> to Vinay that you be allowed in. Is that a deal or are you going to run scared
> again?
Like u ran away when I asked u to prove Raja's maha chor list > RDB's
list. U or anyone else can get away by writing that in pancham egroup
bcos it is 'moderated'.
May be that's why u guys want to keep it moderated. You can filter out
any unwanted guests who can dispute such ridiculous claims.
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
>I don't know about that. All I can say is that if you have heard tons of L-P
>songs, you have bad taste in music.
If listening to LP is bad taste in music, then what
does it tell about loRD who has acknowledged publicly
that LP were great composers.
Didn't I tell u that u don't think b4 posting :-)
anyhow isn't it time to put an end to this
flame war. I don't know about u, but I actually
enjoyed it.
best.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>Ket...@att.net wrote:
>
>> So basically it hurts you that it is RD's list that is so huge.
>The same folks who sent abusive mails to Karthik.
Do you have some inside knowledge about who these folks were? I don't see
Karthik ever having said that all those who sent him an email were ONLY RDB
fans.
>Like u ran away when I asked u to prove Raja's maha chor list > RDB's
And we have one more lie--and with that RK reaches the half-century mark.
I did reply. Look thru the archives again since you are so good at digging up
old posts.
>list. U or anyone else can get away by writing that in pancham egroup
>bcos it is 'moderated'.
Just as you do on RMIM because it is unmoderated?
>May be that's why u guys want to keep it moderated. You can filter out
>any unwanted guests who can dispute such ridiculous claims.
You said it not me. Thanks for acknowledging that your claims are ridiculous
though. I will put that in your 'truth' column to show that I am fair.
So when are we going to see that objective analytical post on RDB from you? When
are you going to praise him? When are you going to tell us why you started the
abusive posts despite no one provoking you? When are you going to respond to all
the charges against you? When?
We are waiting while you are running......far away. :)
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Do you have some inside knowledge about who these folks were? I don't see
> Karthik ever having said that all those who sent him an email were
>ONLY RDB
> fans.
Neither did Karthik say that he recvd irate mails from fans of
other composers. Anyhow let Karthik confirm it.
>
>
>>Like u ran away when I asked u to prove Raja's maha chor list > RDB's
> And we have one more lie--and with that RK reaches the half-century
mark.
> I did reply. Look thru the archives again since you are so good at
digging up
> old posts.
I did and couldn't see it. Are u sure u didn't reply
to it in the pancham group :-)
Can u dig it out from this.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=7ac77f99a27e54c6&seekm=62bc7341.0110180243.23aad6f4%40posting.google.com#link1
This has the entire thread archive. Thanks.
>>list. U or anyone else can get away by writing that in pancham egroup
>>bcos it is 'moderated'.
>>
>
> Just as you do on RMIM because it is unmoderated?
Eh??? What logic is this. Being an unmoderated forum I
should be worried that any unsubstantiated lies about
a composer can be challanged by anyone. Are u that
dumb not to know this.
This, u or anyone else need not worry in a moderated
forum bcos of the power of 'moderation'.
> You said it not me. Thanks for acknowledging that your
>claims are ridiculous
>though. I will put that in your 'truth' column to
>show that I am fair.
do have a problem in reading English or what. The ridiculous claim
is in reference to ur claim of Raja's copied song >>> loRD's copied
songs.
anyhow this is my second request to stop this flame war.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>anyhow isn't it time to put an end to this
Kya yaar. Itni jaldi "phat gayee". As I said..once a COWARD, always a COWARD!
>flame war. I don't know about u, but I actually
>enjoyed it.
Oh..I enjoyed exposing the kind of person you are. The task is made easier by
the number of goof-ups you continue to make. You are a unique case of a guy who
goes to war and shoots himself in the foot more than he shoots the enemy. Since
you are once again choosing to run away without answering a single question
(which is a sign that you have lost the argument on any newsgroup), I will be
forced to withdraw from the battle. Pity.
I thank RMIMers for their patience and am glad to see that atleast some of them
agree with Vinay's decision to keep you out of the RD group. I am sure you hate
the thought of not being able to irritate 287 RDB fans on that group but hey,
don't blame us for your (lack of) intelligence, logic, common sense, decency,
upbringing etc etc. You had your chances, you blew them big time.
Could you as a final gesture change your name to MAHA-COWARD!
>best.
Yes we(the members of the RD group) know we are.
Ketan
PS: You come back with this stupid nonsense Maha-coward, and you shall be
publicly spanked again. Thank your stars I don't read r.s.c as often as I do
RMIM.
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Kya yaar. Itni jaldi "phat gayee". As I said..once a COWARD, always a COWARD!
nahi yaar daya aa gayee tere pe. Kya karoon. Mera dil hee kuch
aisa hain.
BTW when u have free time email me the maha list of Raja's copied
songs which per u is more than RDB's list. I have waited for
years for this, no harm in waiting for few months more.
For ur benefit, I have even provided u the URL of ur supposed
reply in that thread.
till then, have a nice one and read this new signature
of mine.
RK-
"RDB had a bad taste in music because he acknowledged
Laxmi-Pyare as a great composer".
Ketan Dholakia in rmim
Ket...@att.net
>anyhow this is my second request to stop this flame war.
Yes I saw your white flag. If you really meant to stop it you would apologize on
RMIM, to Shalini for calling her a "fucking idiot". Calling someone stupid,
moron etc is one thing, and you were both guilty of that as was I, and as are
many others in many other threads. However stooping to using 4 letter words is
something else and frankly in 6+ years of flame wars over RDB, this is the first
time I have seen you cross that line of decency. Why? This is something that
surprised me. I hope that no singer/MD(RDB included) is ever that important to
me, that I would stoop to those levels of profanity in a public forum.
I leave the decision to you. All I can say is, here is a golden opportunity for
you to win back some measure of respect that you have lost thru your behaviour.
I will be surprised if you apologize but atleast for a change it will be a
pleasant surprise.
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
abused Shalini. Donno what I was thinking.
Shalini: I apologize for this. Serious.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
Earlier you said...
>If listening to LP is bad taste in music, then what
>does it tell about loRD who has acknowledged publicly
>that LP were great composers.
Now you say..
>"RDB had a bad taste in music because he acknowledged
>Laxmi-Pyare as a great composer".
>Ketan Dholakia in rmim
A) I did not say this, but thanks once again for misrepresenting the truth.
B) Who said RDB had to listen to L-P to acknowledge them as great composers? How
do you think I admitted to being a Rafi fan. I admit I am brave enough to take
you on, but not THAT brave. :)
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
Oh c'mon I wasn't even half serious when I wrote that.
U don't have to brood over it.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>
>I think that is a valid point. I shouldn't have
>abused Shalini. Donno what I was thinking.
>
>Shalini: I apologize for this. Serious.
>
>RK-
Thanks.
Ketan
Ashok
>name any MDs from the 50's and later years who have not been 'inspired' by
>foregin tunes.
Might be worth trying to come up with names: Vasant Desai, Sajjad,
Khaiyaam, Jaidev. Any known copies by them?
>day music scene, even ARR has been doing it.
Really? Which ones?
>Satish Kalra
Ashok
Surma Bhopali
basically like good tunes and lyrics and RDB definitely stands out as
one of the composers who created memorable songs in numbers far
greater than LP, Bappi, etc of 1980+ times. Right off the top of my
head i can list some songs I like of RDB:
- Saavan ke jhoole pade hai
- Meri bheegee-bheegee see
- Most of "Aandhi" songs
- Tujhse naaraaz nahi zindagi
- Tere binaa jiyaa jaa_e naa
- O mere dil ke chain
- Tumane mujhe dekhaa ho kar meharbaa.n
And I also like his style of presenting "sharaarat-bhare" songs, viz.
- Ye la.Dakaa haay allaah kaisaa hai diivaanaa
- Bhalii-bhalii sii ek suurat bhalaa saa ek naam
- Bechaaraa dil kyaa kare, saavan jale bhaado.n jale
Too good to ignore. IMHO only Kalyanji-Anandji of those times compares
with RDB.
Anindya
oh, I forgot I was dealing with the intellectually challenged. Ok, let
me clarify:
if we decode your ill-constructed sentence to mean "75% of RDB's songs
are better than 75% of LP's songs, OR 75% of KA songs", then the
answer is an emphatic YES, and I don't think one has to be an RDB
fanatic to reach that conclusion.
Now (since you are now trying to conveniently distort and generalise
my answer, confirming your warped and deranged thought process, one
more time) - if the question is:
is RDB's MEDIOCRE output BETTER than the BEST of LP, KA, the answer,
once again, is an emphatic NO - and I'm quite sure all right-minded
RDB fans will give you the same answer (yes, there will be blind
fanatics, just like there are blind detractors)
Now, I defy you to dig out the post ("somone claimed RDB's mediocre
was better than other ppl's best...") that you keep citing again and
again (all these days, I thought it was basic netiquette to not b***h
(wow, my collection of 4/5-letter words have gone up amazingly over
the last few days - thanks, RK!)about the goins-on in another forum,
but anyway), and also put the same in its proper context, so that
non-RDB, non-patisan ppl in the group can form their own opinion about
RDB fans:
1. did someone actually make a general and sweeping comment like that?
2. or was it in a specific context, like RDB's mediocre is better than
Nadeem Shravan's best (in which case, once again, it's a perfectly
reasonable comment, IMO)
3. did everybody, or the majority of members support this claim?
since you have levelled the first charge, and are going on and on
about it, how about some credible evidence now?
Meanwhile, since your repertoire of the language seems to begin and
end with 4-letter (and, on more enlightened occasions, 5-letter)words,
I'm not sure how far and for how long I'll be able carry on this
conversation with you - so, I sincerely suggest that you grow up, get
a life, and come back after, maybe, 15 years (by which time K12 should
be behind you, since you have obviously missed out on it, the first
time around), and we can resume this thread.
Happy growing up.
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
>
> if we decode your ill-constructed sentence to mean "75% of RDB's songs
it was not ill-constructed but a typo on my part. I was
referring to 75% of RDB songs > best of LP/KA and indeed
this is what I posted (which went to Vinay). I didn't do
cut-and-paste of the ogriginal mail. I just typed it
from off my hat.
See the context of my reply to Vinay. The idea was
to indicate that I rate 75% of RDB's songs as mediocre
and it makes sense only if I ask "you mean 75% of RDB songs
were better than the best of LP/KA".
Since the fault is entirely mine, I apologise to you
for flaming. You have clarified that you don't think
75% of RDB songs > best songs of LP/KA. And for the
record, while I think that the best of RDB was >>>
LP/KA, his mediocre songs were really mediocre. That's
why I posted that flame in egroup.
Sorry again. To err is human.
RK-
SKalra902
>In article <20020218123545...@mb-fy.aol.com>, skal...@aol.com
>says...
>>
>>............................................... I would be hard pressed to
>>name any MDs from the 50's and later years who have not been 'inspired' by
>>foregin tunes.
>
>Might be worth trying to come up with names: Vasant Desai, Sajjad,
>Khaiyaam, Jaidev. Any known copies by them?
Not off the top of my hat. But the likes of the above MDs are really few and
far between, at any given point of time.
>
>>day music scene, even ARR has been doing it.
>
>Really? Which ones?
I have no backup of my filing cabinet (of all the articles/emails/postings on
RMIM) which I recently lost due to a virus cleanout of my computer, so I cannot
dig out the writeups. However, I do recall writing about a few songs by ARR;
the 'inspired' ones. And in response to one of those posts, one RMIMer even
defended ARR by writing back that the (original) song was so old that ARR might
not even have heard such a song existed. If I remember correctly, this one was
about the Dil Se song, "Ai ajnabii".
>
>Ashok
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
SKalra902
>ASHOK WROTE:
Oops. Looks like my Caps button was locked. Sorry about that.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
David Chute
<PLONK>
David Chute
> From: andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
> Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:23:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: pancham yahoo group
>
Anindya
I'd say, Rajesh Roshan, if you are talking of similar genres. In that
genre (sharaarat-bhare..)KA generally preferred to cater to the local
tea-stall inhabitants, and their output in this category (Rote hue,
Khaike paan...etc.) is hardly musically enriching. RR, on the other
hand, had several good ones.
Anindya
Anindya
hmmm...interesting, and I guess all those expletives, some of which
were directed towards me ("RDB p**p") were typos too.
Anyway, since you have chosen the predictable and easier path, viz.
retreat, on being asked to show evidence in support of your claims,
here's an RDB song, which you can hum along the way:
LakDi ki kaaThi
KaaThi ke ghoDa
GhoDe ke dum pe jo maara hathhoDa
DauDa dauDa dauDa ghoDa dum dabaake dauDa..
after which, you may also like to sing this (lyrics slightly
modified):
Kya hai apna, kya begaana
Mera dushman, saara zamaana
Sab ne mil jul kar mujhe peeta
Dil toota....
cheerio, and better luck next time
Anindya
Ket...@att.net
>Might be worth trying to come up with names: Vasant Desai, Sajjad,
>Khaiyaam, Jaidev. Any known copies by them?
Khayyam's "Parbaton ke pedo par" is a copy(not an inspiration) of an old
Kashmiri bhajan. I don't know if the Kashmiri bhajan is a folk tune or a
composition created by someone. But if it is a folk tune, shouldn't the same
principle apply that was used in the case of Avinash Vyas and his using "Om Jai
Jagdish Hare" for a Geeta song?
Ketan
>Ashok
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> hmmm...interesting, and I guess all those expletives, some of which
> were directed towards me ("RDB p**p") were typos too.
no they weren't. but they were a result of the typo which
created the misunderstanding. Hard to comprehend?
> Anyway, since you have chosen the predictable and easier path, viz.
Just like your loRD chose the easier path of copying ... oops,
customising other's tunes instead of working hard on creating a
new tune.
What was that? Some director went to London to visit his brother
and heard a song. Brought the tape of it and gave it to RDB with
an 'order' to copy. And guess what. Our man decided to bend over
and offer his ... without any protest. yes sir. right sir. whatever
u say sir. I will copy this song sir. All this when he was already a
top notch composer.
I have heard of casting couch for actresses, probably this is
musical couch :-)
At least I apologized. Your loRD wasn't even apologetic about it
any interview I read or seen. Nothing can be more disgusting than
to hear a background music of a film (Khotey Sikkey) note to note
copied from Clint Eastwood movie while the credit shows 'MUSIC DIRECTOR'
RD BURMAN'.
anyhow, have a nice day while listening to songs of Paley Khan,
Mahan and Pukar :-)
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>At least I apologized. Your loRD wasn't even apologetic about it
>any interview I read or seen.
Have you seen ANY MD apologize for copying or lifting tunes? Remember, not just
admit to it(RDB has done that) but apologize for doing it.
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Have you seen ANY MD apologize for copying or lifting tunes?
> Remember, not just
> admit to it(RDB has done that) but apologize for doing it.
U make it sound as if RDB did something great by admitting
to his chori after it is pointed out to him.
anyhow r u telling me that I shouldn't have apologized to Anindya :-)
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>> Have you seen ANY MD apologize for copying or lifting tunes?
>
>> Remember, not just
>> admit to it(RDB has done that) but apologize for doing it.
>U make it sound as if RDB did something great by admitting
>to his chori after it is pointed out to him.
Well, you made it sound as if YOU did something great by apologizing after your
deliberate twists were pointed out to you.
Anyway, stick to answering my question please! If you cannot, shut up and get
out of the debate.
>anyhow r u telling me that I shouldn't have apologized to Anindya :-)
Apologize by all means. Just don't put yourself on the same level as RDB by
saying "look I did it, he hasn't".
Ravi, I have met RDB. I have seen him compose first-hand. Ravi, you are no RD
Burman!
(with apologies to Lloyd Bentsen)
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Well, you made it sound as if YOU did something great by apologizing after your
> deliberate twists were pointed out to you.
I released where Anindya was coming from and hence
I apologized. Did he clarify it before what he
interpreted. NO. He clarified it only yesterday
and it then I realized what mistake I did in
quoting and how it could have been interpreted
either way, which is what Anindya did.
I have written some tools which are used in freeware and
I made it to point to acknowledge those folks from whom
I have taken *part* of the code, even though their own
code is freeware. It is something called courtesy
which RDB never showed even when borrowing tunes,
lock stock and barrel, or copying background music
and passing it off as *his*.
RDB was a great composer. So what? That's doesn't mean
he gets high marks on his attitude towards copying.
But then is it reasonable to expect any eulogizing
fan to show any objectivity. That sounds very much
like an oxymoron.
> Anyway, stick to answering my question please! If you cannot, shut up and get
> out of the debate.
like u did yesterday when I asked.
~~~~~~
>Now now, RK, you just sued for peace yesterday.
>You don't want to start that all
>over again do you? I suggest you keep out of this for now.
~~~~~~
If u are itching for yet another bout of flame war,
please say so. I don't want this to be like India Pak
diplomacy. Moon mein ram, bagal mein churi.
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> if we decode your ill-constructed sentence to mean "75% of RDB's songs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> are better than 75% of LP's songs, OR 75% of KA songs", then the
> answer is an emphatic YES, and I don't think one has to be an RDB
> fanatic to reach that conclusion.
So u assumed that my original statement meant the above
and then u proceeded with an emphatic YES. All this, after
you have acknowledged that my original statement was
ambiguous.
Good. I like your thought process. Answer an emphatic YES
while assuming to your advantage and then clarify *later*
what you assumed.
RK-
Anindya
> Anindya wrote:
>
> > if we decode your ill-constructed sentence to mean "75% of RDB's songs
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > are better than 75% of LP's songs, OR 75% of KA songs", then the
> > answer is an emphatic YES, and I don't think one has to be an RDB
> > fanatic to reach that conclusion.
>
>
> So u assumed that my original statement meant the above
> and then u proceeded with an emphatic YES. All this, after
> you have acknowledged that my original statement was
> ambiguous.
>
> Good. I like your thought process.
and I like yours, too!
Anindya
vibhendu
Most folk tunes from hill states in India-Dogri,
Kashmiri,Garhwali,kumaoni ,Nepali and to a very great extent other
North Eastern music resemble each other and there's a familiar strain
running through them replicatedto a large extent in Pahadi strain of
hindustani classical music.
Khaiyyam has been partial to Pahadi, is a known fact and though I
remeber a lot of Kashmiri folk songs with resemblaances to 'Pabaton
ke Gheron me'........, I believe Khaiyyam's composition is more
sophisticated or Urbane interpretation of it .
Perhaps, similar to Jaidev's 'Ye dil unki nigahon ke saye' and salil
's 'Chhota sa ghar hoga'....modern day interpretations of essentailly
folk elements
As for Khaiyyam,Jaidev,Hridaynath copying, they have liberally
borrowed from folk and classical and this does not make them any
lesser composers.
> Ketan
>
> >Ashok
ajit
Ketan - can u post more info about that kashmiri bhajan?
Thanks,
Ajit
ajit
> As for Khaiyyam,Jaidev,Hridaynath copying, they have liberally
> borrowed from folk and classical and this does not make them any
> lesser composers.
About HM - i think the Marathi song "malavoon tak deep" might be an
inspiration from that famous Mehndi Hassan ghazal "kabke hum bichhde".
I have also heard that he copied the tune of ILRs "Ilayanila" for some
Bengali song, but I am not sure about that.
Abhay Phadnis
news:c5161e15.02022...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > As for Khaiyyam,Jaidev,Hridaynath copying, they have liberally
> > borrowed from folk and classical and this does not make them any
> > lesser composers.
>
> About HM - i think the Marathi song "malavoon tak deep" might be an
> inspiration from that famous Mehndi Hassan ghazal "kabke hum bichhde".
Does "abake ham bichhaDe" (not "kabke"!) pre-date "malavuun Taak diip"?
Anyone know the relevant dates?
Warm regards,
Abhay
ajit
was asked as to why he apparently refused to score the music of the
film Barsaat ki Raat (for which Roshan was later chosen). To this he
replied that he was told by the producer/director of the movie to use
a tune composed by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's dad for the qawwali "yeh
ishq ishq ...". Khayyam refused to do this and therefore opted out. So
I guess, the tune for "yeh ishq ishq ..." wasnt really a Roshan
original.
"Abhay Phadnis" <apha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<a52r58$48la0$1...@ID-75300.news.dfncis.de>...
ajit
http://filmfare.indiatimes.com/site/july2001/tunen3.html
In this article, hridaynath seems to admit that his song "malavun tak
deep" is inspired from "abke hum bichhade". he also admits to have
copied totally 10 songs so far. I guess one more of those would be a
bengali song he "composed", the tune of which is supposed to be a copy
of "ilayanila" by IR. But I'm not sure as I havent heard that bengali
song.
Any idea about the remaining 8 songs? Maybe "kesariya balama" could be
one of those??
Thanks,
Ajit
"Abhay Phadnis" <apha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<a52r58$48la0$1...@ID-75300.news.dfncis.de>...
Anindya
> bengali song he "composed", the tune of which is supposed to be a copy
> of "ilayanila" by IR. But I'm not sure as I havent heard that bengali
> song.
the song in question is "Neel neel aakaashey" from Aashrita (earlier
released as Raanga Bhaanga Chaa.nd - interestingly, directed by
Chandra Barot, director of Don)and sung by Kishore.
While the lyrics are an EXACT translation of KK's earlier Neeley
neeley ambar pe (Kalakaar, KA) - which is supposed to be a copy of
IR's Ilayanila, tune-wise, it sounds quite different. I guess the
over-all progression of both the songs are similar to IR's original.
several Salilites believe that HM's "Mii dolkaara dolkaara" - and its
Bengali twin (De dol dol dol - penned, incidentally, by Salil) - was
ghost-composed by Salil.
Anindya
Ket...@att.net
ajit...@hotmail.com says...
>
>I remember seeing an interview of Khayyam on Zee Cinema, wherein he
>was asked as to why he apparently refused to score the music of the
>film Barsaat ki Raat (for which Roshan was later chosen). To this he
>replied that he was told by the producer/director of the movie to use
>a tune composed by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's dad for the qawwali "yeh
>ishq ishq ...". Khayyam refused to do this and therefore opted out. So
>I guess, the tune for "yeh ishq ishq ..." wasnt really a Roshan
>original.
Hmmm..interesting because he refuses to copy one song but does not mind
copying/being inspired by another tune as I said. Incidentally I cannot provide
any P-stats about the Kashmiri song, since I recorded the song off a
pre-recorded tape but forgot to note down the P-stats.
Ketan
Surajit A. Bose
andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
> several Salilites believe that HM's "Mii dolkaara dolkaara" - and its
> Bengali twin (De dol dol dol - penned, incidentally, by Salil) - was
> ghost-composed by Salil.
That's sounds like the sort of silly rumor RDB fans perpetuate about SDB
compositions. It's even less likely. At least RDB was SDB's son and
assistant. What motive would Salil have to do this?
-s
Anindya
since I don't have documented evidence (but have heard from more than
one sources, who I believe to have been quite close to Salil), and
since I have no intention to sling mud on one of my most respected
musical icons (not HM, Salil!), I don't want to delve deeper into
this, but I am told that the motive was money (more than love and
affection for a shaagird).
Remember an obscure guy called Bireshwar Sarkar, who MD-ed a movie
called Mother, which had at least one song which was completely
Salilish (Ek jey Raajkonya chheelo) - Salil is reported to have 'sold"
tunes to this guy for the movie.
Once again, I am just narrating incidents that I have HEARD, without
drawing any conclusions myself. I'll be happy to be proven wrong on
this, in fact.
Anindya
ajit
Surajit, I agree with u (though I am a Salilite :-)). In one of the
Marathi bhavgeet programmes, HM has said that his inspiration for this
song is some folk-song he had heard somewhere in rural Maharashtra. He
even admitted that the song "arE arE dnyAnA zhhAlAsi pAwana" from the
Dnyaneshwari collection is inspired from a village "aarati".
Thanks,
Ajit
Ashok
More importantly, what motive would Hridayanath have to do this?
I am willing to bet these "Salilites" were all Bengalis. Easy
to guess what motive they would have! And who else would be
that transparently dense.
Ashok
Ket...@att.net
First Ashok writes:
From ((P implies Q) and Q), it is not valid to conclude P.
Then on the possibility of SalilC being the original composer of "Mi dolkar ra",
he writes:
>I am willing to bet these "Salilites" were all Bengalis. Easy
>to guess what motive they would have! And who else would be
>that transparently dense.
Not surprising you gave me an 'F'. Doesn't look like you took the course either.
>More importantly, what motive would Hridayanath have to do this?
A serious question here: What was the status of HM as a film composer back in
the mid-late 60s, especially in Hindi films?
Ketan
sandip
enjoyed many of his compositions for private albums and films. I have
a series of short questions:
(1) I have noticed that Khayyam is influenced much by UP folk melodies
(In Aankhon ki Masti, Kab Yaad Hai Tera Sath Nahi,Zindagi Jab Bhi Teri
Bazm...) Is it just possible that Khayyam uses folk tunes for the
refrain of his songs and the rest of the composition is uniquely his
own... Does that count as copying ?
It is somehow not the same as Jagjit Singh plagarizing Mehdi Hassan
and taking credit for the music himself.
(2) Is it my imagination or is Zindagi Jab Bhi based on Gaur Sarang
and Dil Chiz Kya Hai is a mishra Khamaj composition ?
(3) Has any one heard his latest recording for Music Today with poetry
by Kaifi Azmi called "Shaguftagi" ?
Yours,
Sandip.
Ashok
>
>In article <a57ct...@enews3.newsguy.com>, ADhar...@WorldBank.Org says...
>
>First Ashok writes:
>
>From ((P implies Q) and Q), it is not valid to conclude P.
>
>Then on the possibility of SalilC being the original composer of "Mi dolkar ra",
>he writes:
>
>>I am willing to bet these "Salilites" were all Bengalis. Easy
>>to guess what motive they would have! And who else would be
>>that transparently dense.
>
>Not surprising you gave me an 'F'. Doesn't look like you took the course either.
>
Right approach, Ketan. You bided (is that the right past tense?) your time
rather than tried to defend the indefensible. I would say "TouchE", but you
will have to earn it by doing a bit of homework: Use Ps and Qs and "implies"s
to formally characterize the fallacy, if any.
Ashok
Surajit A. Bose
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> Right approach, Ketan. You bided (is that the right past tense?)
The preferred form is "bode", but "bided" also prevails. What a pleasure
it is to proffer grammatical information to you, Ashok.
-s
vibhendu
Also reminds me of people who would call any Salilish (read '
complex') composition as Bengali sounding even if the song in
question is Marathi/Malayalam and no other seemingly bengali
connection
As for Salil/Hridaynath connection,can erudite people here elaborate?
I remember HM saying in an interview that many of his ( or Dinanath
Kala Mandir's) earlier Marathi productions had music by Salil/Hemant
rather than his own cause Didi liked the Bengali flavour they lent to
the songs.
Listen to HM's latest film score from Nandita Das starrer 'Laal
Salaam.The song on promo indeed bears resemblance to a song sung by
Haimanti Shukla ( Chashme Baddoor) in a CPC-Doordarshan programme
years ago-'Saanwre aai jaiyo-nadiya (or was it Jumna) kinare mera
gaon'.Salil was involved with CPC as musical adviser during his last
few years and recycled much of his earlier output with daughter Antara
doing most of the singing honours .
Incidentally 'actually' liked a song from Alisha Chinai's video Om-
'Chand khila ...'or something like that only to rediscover the tune
two days later in background score of a late 80s/early 90's CPC
telefilm -Nanha Jaadugar' .The film was tacky, the tune was not.The
credits again revealed a certain Salil Chaudhuri as composer.
Since don't trust Alisha to copy from such an obscure source, I think
there would be a Hindi/Bengali/Marathi original somewhere.
Same for the 'Laal Salaam ' song.
Regards,
Vibhendu Tewari
>
> -s
Pradeep Dubey
Someone who could compose 'ae-din-to-jaabe-na' was no Birshwar Sarkar!
Pradeep
P.S. Disclaimer: you cannot google a harder-core 'Salilite' than me.
andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote in message news:<f43baef6.02022...@posting.google.com>...
Abhay Phadnis
news:1100f078.0202...@posting.google.com...
(snip)
> Listen to HM's latest film score from Nandita Das starrer 'Laal
> Salaam.The song on promo indeed bears resemblance to a song sung by
> Haimanti Shukla ( Chashme Baddoor) in a CPC-Doordarshan programme
> years ago-'Saanwre aai jaiyo-nadiya (or was it Jumna) kinare mera
> gaon'.Salil was involved with CPC as musical adviser during his last
'jamunaa kinaare mero gaa.Nv, saa.Nware ai jaiyo" is a traditional dadra -
not Salil's or any other MD's creation!
Warm regards,
Abhay
ajit
digression
{
If u people are talking of the Lata-roopkumar rathod duet "miwaa le
jaiyyo.." - let me tell u - I felt very very very bad on listening to
this song. Lata has sung it really badly. I guess effects of mortality
have to be taken into account - its age after all.
}
Anindya
>
wouldn't it be closer to Gaur Malhar? What say the experts?
Anindya
ajit
> (3) Has any one heard his latest recording for Music Today with poetry
> by Kaifi Azmi called "Shaguftagi" ?
>
> Yours,
> Sandip.
I guess its available in almost all music stores - its supposedly a
good album featuring alka yagnik, kavitha krishnamurthy, udit narayan
and roopkumar rathod singing the ghazals penned by Kaifi Azmi. I have
read really good reviews of this album. There is also a
deshbhakti-geet in this album though.