Prince of Egypt
Vincent Allah
bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while their
babies are molested by Catholics.
Lorelei
Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
Lady Lorelei aa #1049 EAC member #97
Place yourself on the alt.atheism map
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/Loreleis/index.html
Please sign my guestbood to provide feedback or just
comment in general lori_...@hotmail.com
raven1
>
> Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
> |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
> |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
> |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
> |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
> |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
> their
> |babies are molested by Catholics.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
especially after his response to Sarah.
dave #1390
giving gay benefits or whatever the hell they gave gay people?
Vincent Allah <Infat...@MariahC.Com> wrote in article
<NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>...
kyle
raven1 wrote:
>
> Lorelei wrote:
> >
> > Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
> > |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
> > |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
> > their
> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>
> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
> especially after his response to Sarah.
and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
--
->EAC Barcode Identification: 18-9666-1404->
->Head of EAC Paragraphing division->
Michelle Malkin
>Lorelei wrote:
>>
>> Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
>> |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>> |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>> |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>> |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
>> |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>> their
>> |babies are molested by Catholics.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>
>Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>especially after his response to Sarah.
I second - emphatically!
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA Knight who says SPONG!
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC (which doesn't exist) Train Station Bible Thumper Thumper
send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
...patriarchal religions are always politically reactionary. They prevent the elimination
of the prevailing mass misery by claiming it to be the will of God and by referring demands
for happiness to the hereafter. - Wilhelm Reich - German atheist
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
yang hu
> this is disney, right?..anybody think this is payback to the baptists for
> giving gay benefits or whatever the hell they gave gay people?
no, it's by Dreamwork's Katzenberger, who used to worked for Disney.
Judging from the suspicious similarity between Antz and A Bugs Life,
'Thou Shalt Not Plagerize' apparently is not one of Katzenberger's
commandments.
Yang
#28
maff91
wrote:
>
>
>raven1 wrote:
>>
>> Lorelei wrote:
>> >
>> > Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
>> > |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>> > |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
>> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>> > their
>> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >
>> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>>
>> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>> especially after his response to Sarah.
>
>and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
1. Lorelei
2. Kyle
3. Michelle
4. maff91
Thomas P.
wrote:
I don't live in God's own country, so a lot of this comes late - if at
all. I just read the Dec. 14. "Time". In the "Search for Moses"
article an archeologist by the name of James Hofmeier was quoted to
have said: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This
sounded rather idiotic to me. Is this guy well known? Anybody know?
Thomas P.
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
Fish
5. Fish
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Alt.Atheism #623
ICQ# 25302291
fi...@infidels.org.god
(remove "god" to reply by email)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in
veneration -- courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness,
and, above all, love of the truth." -- H. L. Mencken
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Therion T. Ware
wrote:
>maff91 posted the following to alt.atheism:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:49:08 -0500, kyle <third...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>
>> >raven1 wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Lorelei wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
>
>> >> > |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>> >> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>> >> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>> >> > |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
>> >> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>> >> > their
>> >> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
>> >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >
>> >> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>> >>
>> >> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>> >> especially after his response to Sarah.
>> >
>> >and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
>>
>> 1. Lorelei
>> 2. Kyle
>> 3. Michelle
>> 4. maff91
>
>5. Fish
A done deal.
--
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
- attrib: Pauline Reage.
<http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/6671/entry/hell.html>
Jessica M. Wolfman
<canad...@geocities.DONT.SEND.ME.SPAM.MAIL.com> wrote:
>this is disney, right?..anybody think this is payback to the baptists for
>giving gay benefits or whatever the hell they gave gay people?
Dreamworks, actually, with Spielburg.
>Vincent Allah <Infat...@MariahC.Com> wrote in article
><NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>...
>> I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>> bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the
>Bible
>> like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their
>slavery
>> so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and
>I
>> hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>their
>> babies are molested by Catholics.
Jessica Wolfman
"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write,
but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
--Alvin Toffler
The Adventurers Guild
http://members.tripod.com/~theguild
Replace nospam.com with boo <dot> net to reply via email.
Jessica M. Wolfman
>On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:49:08 -0500, kyle <third...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>raven1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Lorelei wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
>>> > |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>>> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>>> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>>> > |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
>>> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>>> > their
>>> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
>>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> >
>>> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>>>
>>> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>>> especially after his response to Sarah.
>>
>>and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
>
>1. Lorelei
>2. Kyle
>3. Michelle
>4. maff91
I'll fifth that. I just read his reposne to Sarah, and he should have gotten in
just for that bit of unneeded cruelty.
I for one hope the movie does well, despite it's biblical content, and not just
because I have family working on it. The animation looks stunning.
Capella
>
> this is disney, right?..anybody think this is payback to the baptists for
> giving gay benefits or whatever the hell they gave gay people?
This is Dream Works. Steven Speilberg. It has nothing to with
Disney.
Capella #5
150 bible errors, contradictions, failed prophecies, etc...
http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide
Capella
>
> Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
> |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
> |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
> |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
> |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
> |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
> their
> |babies are molested by Catholics.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>
> Place yourself on the alt.atheism map
> http://www.angelfire.com/nv/Loreleis/index.html
:^)
I do agree with his annoyance that so many bible movies gloss
over what the bible really says about things like Moses ordering
raids specifically to kill women, the extermination of all the
Canaanites, Yahweh teasing the Israelites who wanted meat by
giving them a bunch of fowl to eat and then killing them
as they ate it, the random killing of family members by
sword when Moses came down from the mountain, etc, etc, etc...
Capella #5
150 bible errors, contradictions, failed prohpecies, etc...
Capella's Guide to Atheism
http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide
Eric Means
>I don't live in God's own country, so a lot of this comes late - if at
>all. I just read the Dec. 14. "Time". In the "Search for Moses"
>article an archeologist by the name of James Hofmeier was quoted to
>have said: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This
>sounded rather idiotic to me. Is this guy well known? Anybody know?
>Thomas P.
Actually, this is logically true. It is not, however, the whole truth.
Absence of evidence is *not* necessarily evidence of absence (i.e. we don't
have any evidence that intelligent life exist outside our own solar system;
this does not allow us to infer that none exists.); however, absence of
evidence *where such evidence would be expected* is evidence of absence
(i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
Personally I've never heard of Hofmeier, though.
Capella
>
> Actually, this is logically true. It is not, however, the whole truth.
> Absence of evidence is *not* necessarily evidence of absence (i.e. we don't
> have any evidence that intelligent life exist outside our own solar system;
> this does not allow us to infer that none exists.); however, absence of
> evidence *where such evidence would be expected* is evidence of absence
> (i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
> the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
> only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
Correct. Where evidence should be present and is instead absent, that
is a possible indicator of a false theory or story.
Another example is the Exodus story where it is stated that 600,000
men left Egypt with their wives and children and some others.
This comes out to at least 1.5 million people. In spite of the fact
that the Egyptians were meticulous business record keepers, there
is no records or evidence that 1.5 million people ever got up and
left Egypt one day.
On top of that, according to the bible story, almost all of them
died in the wilderness. If this is so then there should be
a distribution of over 1.5 million skeletel remains along with
camps, garbage, pottery, etc... across this region.
These 1.5 million people can't be found anywhere although
archaeologists have certainly looked for them. The only
thing they have found in the wilderness region has been
a few scattered small encampments and the scene of a battle.
Capella #5
150 bible errors, contradictions, failed prophecies, etc...
Capella's Guide to Atheism
http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide
>
Peter Kelly
writer of our times Capella<Roc...@Audiotel.com> did eloquently
compose:
And 40 years to travel only a few hundred miles even by foot. Mosses
must have been an incompetent navigator. Must have gone via
India or some such place. Especially when Joe of the cloak of many
colours seemingly made the trip from Canaan to Egypt more quickly than
this. Joe and Mary zipped down to Egypt and back when Herod was
repeating in Judea God's trick in Egypt; killing young babies.
--
rot-13 on email reply
A union of government and religion tends to destroy government
and degrade religion.
- Justice Black, US Supreme Court, 1962
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://www.wantree.com.au/~pkelly/key.htm
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 196D 0C35 95C9 BFD2 0677 C238 8FDE 0133 86E9 7B89
Thomas P.
<eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
>Thomas P. wrote in message <36790b03...@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>>I don't live in God's own country, so a lot of this comes late - if at
>>all. I just read the Dec. 14. "Time". In the "Search for Moses"
>>article an archeologist by the name of James Hofmeier was quoted to
>>have said: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." This
>>sounded rather idiotic to me. Is this guy well known? Anybody know?
>>Thomas P.
>
>
>Actually, this is logically true. It is not, however, the whole truth.
>Absence of evidence is *not* necessarily evidence of absence (i.e. we don't
>have any evidence that intelligent life exist outside our own solar system;
>this does not allow us to infer that none exists.); however, absence of
>evidence *where such evidence would be expected* is evidence of absence
>(i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
>the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
>only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
>
>Personally I've never heard of Hofmeier, though.
>
>
Your point about Jesus is smilar to what I was thinking. If Moses was
so incredibly important, there would be some clue to his existence in
Egypt.
Thomas P.
Kelly) wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:23:31 -0600 that most illustrious and gifted
snip
>And 40 years to travel only a few hundred miles even by foot. Mosses
>must have been an incompetent navigator. Must have gone via
>India or some such place. Especially when Joe of the cloak of many
>colours seemingly made the trip from Canaan to Egypt more quickly than
>this. Joe and Mary zipped down to Egypt and back when Herod was
>repeating in Judea God's trick in Egypt; killing young babies.
>
>--
There is part of the story that I have no problem with. A group of
people could have left Egypt (perhaps during a period of chaos such as
the barbarian invasions). Their departure was probably hardly
noticed. They could well have lived a nomadic life in the Sinai for
40 years or 140 years. At one point, like many other nomadic
barbarians, they saw their opportunity to seize a piece of territory
and settle down. The rest of the story would have been elaborations
to make themselves look better and give the priests more power.
>rot-13 on email reply
>A union of government and religion tends to destroy government
>and degrade religion.
>- Justice Black, US Supreme Court, 1962
>
>Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
>http://www.wantree.com.au/~pkelly/key.htm
>RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
>DSS - 196D 0C35 95C9 BFD2 0677 C238 8FDE 0133 86E9 7B89
Thomas P.
Eric Means
>On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:26:49 -0500, "Eric Means"
><eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
>
>>(i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
>>the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of
it
>>only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
>
>so incredibly important, there would be some clue to his existence in
>Egypt.
One would think so . . . perhaps he was a guerilla prophet?
Denis Loubet
Jessica M. Wolfman wrote in message <367927ff...@news.comm-plus.net>...
>Dreamworks, actually, with Spielburg.
The first thing that occurred to me, from a film lovers angle, is that if
Yul Brenner is not Ramses, and Charlton Heston is not Moses, then what's the
point of watching this thing?
Also, for some reason, I find the idea of Gospel music attacking me the
whole time I'm in the theater, suggesting that I forgo rational thought, to
be very annoying. Music of that nature was not in The Ten Commandments, and
I think that's a big reason I like the movie so much. The Ten Commandments
is a fun story about wierd people with wierd beliefs and cool special
effects. The Prince of Egypt, I fear, is going to be theist brainwashing
dressed up as entertainment.
Denis
P.S. What is it about cartoon remakes of Yul Brenner films? Did everyone
get a good laugh at the preview of the animated The King and I? Good grief,
what an atrocity! Another example of "If Yul Brenner is not playing the
King, then what's the point of watching this thing."
Djehuti Sundaka
Eric Means wrote:
Perhaps he was the Egyptian king responsible for ridding his land of Semites and
turned into a Semitic hero by later Semitic generations who wanted to recast
their historical defeat into a legendary victory.
Chaos Theory
Fish wrote:
> maff91 posted the following to alt.atheism:
>
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:49:08 -0500, kyle <third...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >raven1 wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Lorelei wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Vincent Allah wrote in message ...
>
> > >> > |I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
> > >> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
> > >> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
> > >> > |so much? I hope the people who thought up this stupid story die soon and I
> > >> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
> > >> > their
> > >> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
> > >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> >
> > >> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
> > >>
> > >> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
> > >> especially after his response to Sarah.
> > >
> > >and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
> >
> > 1. Lorelei
> > 2. Kyle
> > 3. Michelle
> > 4. maff91
>
> 5. Fish
6. Chaos Theory
>
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
> Alt.Atheism #623
> ICQ# 25302291
> fi...@infidels.org.god
> (remove "god" to reply by email)
>
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> "Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in
> veneration -- courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness,
> and, above all, love of the truth." -- H. L. Mencken
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
--
-Brought to you by the letter C and the number e
Special thanks to the chaotically insane mind of Chaos Theory
for thinking this message.
Illogic makes it possible!
"Bother", said Pooh, as he rose from the dead
Atheist #1354
EAC Creative Elimination Division
Michelle Malkin
Charles Pellegrino suggests something along those possible lines.
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA Knight who says SPONG!
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC (which doesn't exist) Train Station Bible Thumper Thumper
send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Djehuti Sundaka
Michelle Malkin wrote:
> Djehuti Sundaka <AHUG...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Eric Means wrote:
> >
> >> Thomas P. wrote in message <367a5733...@news.inet.tele.dk>...
> >> >On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:26:49 -0500, "Eric Means"
> >> ><eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>(i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
> >> >>the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of
> >> it
> >> >>only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
> >> >
> >> >Your point about Jesus is smilar to what I was thinking. If Moses was
> >> >so incredibly important, there would be some clue to his existence in
> >> >Egypt.
> >>
> >> One would think so . . . perhaps he was a guerilla prophet?
> >
> >Perhaps he was the Egyptian king responsible for ridding his land of Semites and
> >turned into a Semitic hero by later Semitic generations who wanted to recast
> >their historical defeat into a legendary victory.
>
> Charles Pellegrino suggests something along those possible lines.
I've never heard of him but I might be interested in reading any of his works on it.
jaro...@my-dejanews.com
"Eric Means" <eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
>Actually, this is logically true. It is not, however, the whole truth.
>Absence of evidence is *not* necessarily evidence of absence (i.e. we don't
>have any evidence that intelligent life exist outside our own solar system;
>this does not allow us to infer that none exists.); however, absence of
>evidence *where such evidence would be expected* is evidence of absence
>(i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
>the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
>only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
Although the following essay by Keith Mano does not quote first-century
historians to support his claim that Jesus really did perform miracles in
public, it's an interesting read, nonetheless:
"How a 20th Century eye operation shows the Bethsaida miracle actually
happened" by Keith Mano. Reprinted from National Review.
<http://albertareport.com/24arcopy/24a26cpy/2426ar10.htm>
Even though one may reject the idea that Jesus Christ was "God manifest in
the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16), there is more than sufficient historical
evidence for the existence of Jesus [Yeshua] of Nazareth.
Tacitus, Suetonius, the Jewish rabbinical traditions, and Josephus all
mention Jesus quite outside the New Testament. The Josephus interpolation
has long been discounted, and the original restored.
Dr. Paul L. Maier (University of Western Michigan) is professor of ancient
history and an authority on first century Eastern history. In his book, "In
the Fullness of Time: A Historian Looks at Christmas, Easter, and the Early
Church" (1998, Kregel, Inc., Grand Rapids, MI. 1-800-773-2607) Maier
rigorouly documents archaeological evidence not only for the historicity of
Jesus, but of Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, biblical sites, etc. I find it most
interesting that the Talmud includes the arrest notice of Jesus [Yeshua] in
Sanhedrin 43a. This section from the Talmud is reproduced in Maier's book.
Summary of "In the Fullness of Time: (by Kregel)
<http://www.gospelcom.net/kregel/pub/botm.html>
> Book of the Month
>
> Books to challenge [In the Fullness of Time] In the Fullness of Time:
> the mind, and A Historian Looks at
> encourage the heart Christmas, Easter, and the Early Church
>
> Search for books by by Paul L. Maier
> author or title:
> [Search] Now in one richly illustrated volume, Paul Maier's
> classic trilogy on the origins of Christianity
> takes you back to the first Christmas, the first
> [On-Line Catalog] Easter, and the first Christians. In this revised,
> Browse by subject. updated and expanded edition Dr. Maier's impressive
> Search by author or research and brilliant insights combine with
> title. history, archaeology, and New Testament scriptures
> to bring to life the true drama of earliest
> [New Releases] Christianity.
>
> [Bestsellers] [Image]
>
> [News and Information] The Author Reviews
>
> [Employment] Paul L. Maier is "The author is at home in
> professor of Ancient the vast literature of
> [Image] History at Western his subject." --The New
> Michigan University. His York Times Book Review
> [Image] Kregel Used experise in
> Books first-century history "For the supremely
> [Image] Kregel and extensive travels in pivotal event of the
> the Middle East and Asia Resurrection, Paul
> Publications Minor provide historical maier's book lends fresh
> [Image] Editorial authenticity and and scholarly support."
> Portavoz compelling drama to his --Billy Graham
> [Image] Kregel writing. Other works
> include the Gold "Vivid style and keep
> Bookstores Medallion award-winning insight make this book a
> book Josephus: The delight and a genuine
> [Image] Essential Writings as educational experience."
> Kregel Incorporated well as the widely --Moody Magazine
> Home Page popular documentary
> novels Pontius Pilate
> [GCN%20Home] and The Flames of Rome.
> Gospel Communications
> Network (GCN). Online
> Christian Resources.
For further reference:
http://www.nojive.com/oasis/sermons/didjesus.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/6201/exist.html
http://www.digisys.net/users/ddalton/JesusMan2History.html
Biblical Archaeology websites:
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~kmeyers/archaeol/bib_arch.html
http://christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html
David Buckna
'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his
claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was
merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great
moral teacher...Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a
madman or something worse. But let us not come with any patronizing
nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open
to us. He did not intend to.-- C.S. Lewis, _Mere Christianity_
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
otto
<i_am_cha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Fish wrote:
>
>> maff91 posted the following to alt.atheism:
>>
>> > On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:49:08 -0500, kyle <third...@yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >raven1 wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Lorelei wrote:
>> > >> > You are one sick mother-fucker!!!
>> > >>
>> > >> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>> > >> especially after his response to Sarah.
>> > >
>> > >and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> > 1. Lorelei
>> > 2. Kyle
>> > 3. Michelle
>> > 4. maff91
>>
>> 5. Fish
>
>6. Chaos Theory
7. otto
--
otto, a.a a.#0000584
Genova, Italia
remove god from my e-mail (and from the world)
Michelle Malkin
>
>
>Michelle Malkin wrote:
>
>> Djehuti Sundaka <AHUG...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Eric Means wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thomas P. wrote in message <367a5733...@news.inet.tele.dk>...
>> >> >On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:26:49 -0500, "Eric Means"
>> >> ><eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of
>> >> it
>> >> >>only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
>> >> >
>> >> >so incredibly important, there would be some clue to his existence in
>> >> >Egypt.
>> >>
>> >> One would think so . . . perhaps he was a guerilla prophet?
>> >
>> >Perhaps he was the Egyptian king responsible for ridding his land of Semites and
>> >turned into a Semitic hero by later Semitic generations who wanted to recast
>> >their historical defeat into a legendary victory.
>>
>> Charles Pellegrino suggests something along those possible lines.
>
>I've never heard of him but I might be interested in reading any of his works on it.
>
this book so much, I'd be willing to read his laundry list. I do plan
to search for his other books.
Elf Sternberg
"Vincent Allah" <Infat...@MariahC.Com> writes:
>I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>so much?
I don't know if it'll bomb, but I do hope that by putting it
into an animated format that kids grow up equating the format and the
message and understand that the story, for all it's entertainment
value, is no more valid a tale than, say, the Little Mermaid.
Elf
--
Elf M. Sternberg, rational romantic mystical cynical idealist
If you're so smart, why aren't you naked?
http://www.halcyon.com/elf/
Jessica M. Wolfman
>In article <NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
> "Vincent Allah" <Infat...@MariahC.Com> writes:
>
>>I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>>bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>>like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>>so much?
>
> I don't know if it'll bomb, but I do hope that by putting it
>into an animated format that kids grow up equating the format and the
>message and understand that the story, for all it's entertainment
>value, is no more valid a tale than, say, the Little Mermaid.
Although I haven't seen it yet, I got a detailed description from a friend of
mine who got sneek-peek tickets to it. Apparently some of the scenes, such as
the killing of the first-born, are extremely gruesome: in one part you see a
young boy carrying water when the spectre of death descends on him, and he just
gasps and falls over -- while not graphic, it *sounded* like a disturbing scene,
and my friend was saying that while it's one thing to hear it in a story, it's
quite another to see it on the Big Screen; it's more personal that way.
> Elf
>
>--
>Elf M. Sternberg, rational romantic mystical cynical idealist
>If you're so smart, why aren't you naked?
>http://www.halcyon.com/elf/
Jessica Wolfman
glad...@my-dejanews.com
Gladys will spank herself out of here soon enough. If you do not want your
reply to appear on one or the other newsgroup, simply delete such newsgroup
from the header. Or don't reply at all. I will reply to it myself, years
later, after I have died and become reborn. 'Gladys was such a hazelnut' I
will probably write, but though I will never have personally known her,
somehow, I think I will miss her.
In article <75k3uo$u46$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
jaro...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <1Wce2.1479$Ch....@news.ntr.net>,
> "Eric Means" <eric....@louisville.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Even though one may reject the idea that Jesus Christ was "God manifest in
> the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16), there is more than sufficient historical
> evidence for the existence of Jesus [Yeshua] of Nazareth.
>
> Tacitus, Suetonius, the Jewish rabbinical traditions, and Josephus all
> mention Jesus quite outside the New Testament. The Josephus interpolation
> has long been discounted, and the original restored.
Begin CS Lewis quote:
>
> 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his
> claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say.
He never claimed, for example, to be 'our father who art in heaven', there was
always somebody 'up there' to whom he made reference, he never claimed himself
to be that 'heavenly' thinker.
> A man who was
> merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great
> moral teacher...Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a
> madman or something worse.
Or perhaps the things he is reputed to have said he never said at all, and it
is the creators of christianity who were the madmen, or somethings worse.
> But let us not come with any patronizing
> nonsense about his being a great human teacher.
> He has not left that open
> to us. He did not intend to.
Of course not, Jesus did not set out to be a great human teacher, he was just
doing the best he could given the times he lived in, when men sought to nail
each other up on crosses. He knew his fate, and he knew that crosses must be
removed form the earth, and let me ask you something, atheists, how would you
have gone about it, in his time, born a member of the poor and politically
despized class? Maybe you would have been more successful, moving the entire
solar system instead of just the entire earth, successfully challenging the
scriptured will of Jehovah himself along the way. He made himself to be as
great as the scriptures, only to find, much to his chagrin, if he was wise
enough to have chagrin, when he became re-incarnated, that he had been buried
in yet still more scripture.
The human thinkers seem to have a psychological need to bury themselves in
scriptured moral clouds, wishing to subject themselves to the will of the
religious leaders and their interpretations. The great majority of humanity
wishes to be led, we are indeed like sheep in need of a good shepherd.
Good shepherds are hard to find. If the human thinkers were to elect a
sinlge leader, be it a king or a queen, who on the present scene could be
trusted with such a mantle of power?
In times past, one might have pointed to Ghandi, 'let Ghandi lead us, and
settle our disputes...' After all, Ghandi seemed to be one who was not out
for material gain and thus one is inclined to think he would not have abused
his power.
But we are all familiar with the phrase that it is good to be the king, and
one of the reasons it is good to be the king is the sudden availability of
dozens of sex partners. We are all suffering through the Clinton escapades,
and learning form this we must realize that Clinton, our leader in this
country, is still a young man, he will naturally be encumbered by his quest
to satisfy his thirst for sexual knowledge. Should we continue to elect
young men? I think we should, but only if we allow them their sexual
adventures. At least, if they are young and good looking, we are not
disturbed too greatly at the thought of it.
It is difficult to imagine, for example, Ronald Reagen having sex in the oval
office, or heaven forbid, Nixon, or egads, Jimmy Carter, can you imagine his
sad puppy dog face apologizing like Clinton does daily on national TV?
Would Ghandi have been able to avoid the advances of young women? I doubt
it, he was always just this shy of half naked anyway, modern men should take
their fashion cue from him, so as to live not more than a knot away from any
brave and curious female. He must have been wiser than we will ever know.
I believe Ghandi certainly would have been quick to accept the female
spiritual ministries, as well he should be. Would we have complained if
Ghandi had been been having sex in the world white house? I think not.
Isn't that an interesting observation?
How will Bill and Hillary resolve their marriage? It cannot be pleasant for
them, how will they get through their lives? I think that it is
fundamentally important, for our own sakes, that we act as their loving
siblings, and see to it that Bill completes his term, that the Clintons leave
the white house having done their jobs to the best of the abilities.
And Clinton has been an able man, with no more weaknesses than any other man,
, he is certainly able to lead this country, for many many more years, in my
opinion, he is great enough to do it, but alas, the law of term limits will
not allow. Is he great enough to have been Hillary's husband? How will he
ever accomplish it now?
Finally, I wish Hillary were to run for the office, I will miss her a lot
when should the Clintons leave. I believe she would get the nomination, and
that she would be elected in a landslide. I think we could build a great
white dog house in the rose garden for Bill to live in during her term, and
together we can all watch the great episodes of the reconcilliation of their
marriage. Acting in this manner as their siblings, we will become a great
epoch of humanity. Would anybody second the motion?
Gladys
Puck Greenman
>> > >>
>> > >> Agreed. I nominate this creep Vincent Allah for the Twit List, big time,
>> > >> especially after his response to Sarah.
>> > >
>> > >and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> > 1. Lorelei
>> > 2. Kyle
>> > 3. Michelle
>> > 4. maff91
>>
>> 5. Fish
>
>6. Chaos Theory
>
###############################################
# #
# The spelling,like any opinion stated here, #
# #
# is purely my own. #
# #
# Puck #162. #
# #
# Headers are forged to avoid Spam. #
# #
# To contact, use ICQ 150965585 #
# #
###############################################
Djehuti Sundaka
yang hu
> In that case, it may not have the affect the religious folks want.
> Seeing such a thing might be the first step in turning a child off
> religion. "Mommy, why did God kill that little boy? He wasn't hurting
> anyone. If you or Daddy do something wrong, will God kill me?"
it seems to me that POE is going to get a lower than expected earnings.
The HSX.com had the movie at 70M for 4 week right before its release
friday, but now it looks like it'll earn about 40M....
Yang
#28
Michelle Malkin
>On 21 Dec 1998 06:17:34 GMT, e...@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) wrote:
>
>>In article <NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
>> "Vincent Allah" <Infat...@MariahC.Com> writes:
>>
>>>I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>>>bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>>>like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>>>so much?
>>
>> I don't know if it'll bomb, but I do hope that by putting it
>>into an animated format that kids grow up equating the format and the
>>message and understand that the story, for all it's entertainment
>>value, is no more valid a tale than, say, the Little Mermaid.
>
>Although I haven't seen it yet, I got a detailed description from a friend of
>mine who got sneek-peek tickets to it. Apparently some of the scenes, such as
>the killing of the first-born, are extremely gruesome: in one part you see a
>young boy carrying water when the spectre of death descends on him, and he just
>gasps and falls over -- while not graphic, it *sounded* like a disturbing scene,
>and my friend was saying that while it's one thing to hear it in a story, it's
>quite another to see it on the Big Screen; it's more personal that way.
>
Seeing such a thing might be the first step in turning a child off
religion. "Mommy, why did God kill that little boy? He wasn't hurting
anyone. If you or Daddy do something wrong, will God kill me?"
>> Elf
>>
>>--
>>Elf M. Sternberg, rational romantic mystical cynical idealist
>>If you're so smart, why aren't you naked?
>>http://www.halcyon.com/elf/
>
>Jessica Wolfman
>
>"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write,
>but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn."
>--Alvin Toffler
>
>The Adventurers Guild
>http://members.tripod.com/~theguild
>
>Replace nospam.com with boo <dot> net to reply via email.
Coi...@mindspring.com
On Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:37:33 GMT, glad...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>Forgive the crossposting but there are only a few weeks left this season, and
>Gladys will spank herself out of here soon enough.
I had gotten behind, saw your last rmta post, and thought you had left
and I'd missed my chance to say, "Good bye, my love, and farewell."
Do you know that, in your absence, you, the hater of patriarchal
religions, are like IHVH in rmta? Many refer to you, many remember
you, and they do tremble; but they dare not speak [type] your name!
>'Gladys was such a hazelnut' I will probably write
Hazelnut... Nutella? Coincidence? I think not!
[Blithely snipping the entire discussion so far
(Thwap me, pretty baby, I've been a bad, bad boy)...]
I always figured Jesus probably went East during those unaccounted
years, and learned a few things from Hindu and Buddhist adepts. I
think he was trying to explain Buddhism to Jews, without getting
stoned (in a bad way) before he could finish his thought. Then Paul
came along and re-wrote the whole thing so that Jesus the teacher
became Christ the Graeco-Roman God/Savior/Spirit/Alpha-and-Omega.
(Not that contemporary Jewish "Messiah-Mania" helped any --- the times
must have been as hairy as the peak days of "Disco Fever.")
Now, in late-20th-century America, Christianity is largely a quaint,
yet still beloved custom. We have two state religions: Capitalism and
Law. Whatever Clinton did, and then lied about, it wasn't relevant to
the exercise of the office of president until his ability to function
was compromised by the investigation itself. But *perjury*, oooh,
broken law, that's what counts. Reality's irrelevant, but those pieces
of paper (money and legal writs) are the sacraments of our faith!
[I've written this next bit before, but I'm going to write it again:]
It's amazing, kids. Here we have a president --- presumably
elected by the political left! --- who has:
Held out the promise of universal health care, then bent over so far
to construct a system that wouldn't appear to endanger anybody's
profits that in the end no one could even figure the damn thing out;
More or less told gays that they'll be tolerated in the military as
long as they don't act gay in public;
Had his cabinet throw a tantrum when California and Arizona citizens
voted to let medical marijuana be a medical decision;
Pushed through NAFTA;
Tried to push through the Communications Decency Act;
Fostered the biggest increase yet in the War on Drugs (that's right
folks, there's more arrests, and more people going to jail, because of
marijuana these days than ever before --- and that *is* a executive
function, not a legislative one);
Dropped Joycelyn Elders like a hot potato, but sweetened our national
countenance with the likes of Janet Reno, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, and
the re-appointment Alan Greenspan (Regan's chosen Fed chairman,
arguably the most powerful man in America, at least economically);
Attacked Afghanistan and Sudan in violation of international law and
the United Nations charter; [now add the latest World.Cop action]
Continued to support and encourage misguided efforts at so-called
"shock therapy" to create in the former Soviet Union a hypothetical
"western-style economy" despite consequences for the Russian people no
western nation would have ever tolerated for its own citizens;
Cheerfully presided over selling off the national oil reserve in
Alaska, dismantling the legislation that since the '50s has placed an
absolute ban on carcinogens in processed food, seriously weakening the
Endangered Species Act, and repealing the federal guarantee of Aid to
Families with Dependent Children.
And now they say he let us down because he lied about a blow job.
I saw this same B.S. with Nixon (I was in my teens then). There are
*so*many*reasons* to loathe this guy, but he gets tarred and feathered
for something stupid, thereby efficiently misdirecting the public once
again, diverting us from what's really going on right under our noses.
[end rant revisited]
Fortunately, the Sun, Moon, Earth and Sky go on despite our
foolishness. Best wishes to you, Gladys, and to anyone else reading,
for that matter, for a warm and happy Yuletide season.
--
Peace,
Randy aka Coi...@MindSpring.com
* No Justice to make Order of Chaos,
* No Truth to make Reason of Madness;
* Only Love to find Beauty in the Mystery.
Templeton
>Eric Means wrote:
>>
>>
>> (i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
>> the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
>> only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
>
Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
rationalistic as we are today?
At the time of Jesus miracles were expected from wise men and healing
gods. Rumours of miracles would not have made as big a splash then as
it would today.
Templeton
--------------------------------------------------------
"The meek shall inheret the earth."
And that's just what they get:
dirt.
remove SPAM for email reply.
Jessica M. Wolfman
>wolf...@nospam.com (Jessica M. Wolfman) wrote:
>>On 21 Dec 1998 06:17:34 GMT, e...@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
>>> "Vincent Allah" <Infat...@MariahC.Com> writes:
>>>
>>>>I'm just wondering, am I the only one who REALLY REALLY hopes this movie
>>>>bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>>>>like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>>>>so much?
>>>
>>> I don't know if it'll bomb, but I do hope that by putting it
>>>into an animated format that kids grow up equating the format and the
>>>message and understand that the story, for all it's entertainment
>>>value, is no more valid a tale than, say, the Little Mermaid.
>>
>>Although I haven't seen it yet, I got a detailed description from a friend of
>>mine who got sneek-peek tickets to it. Apparently some of the scenes, such as
>>the killing of the first-born, are extremely gruesome: in one part you see a
>>young boy carrying water when the spectre of death descends on him, and he just
>>gasps and falls over -- while not graphic, it *sounded* like a disturbing scene,
>>and my friend was saying that while it's one thing to hear it in a story, it's
>>quite another to see it on the Big Screen; it's more personal that way.
>>
>In that case, it may not have the affect the religious folks want.
>Seeing such a thing might be the first step in turning a child off
>religion. "Mommy, why did God kill that little boy? He wasn't hurting
>anyone. If you or Daddy do something wrong, will God kill me?"
Yeah, I was hoping for that. When that scene was described to me, it reminded me
of when my mother worked in a religious day care center and one little boy
became terrified of the Noah's Ark myth. Every little bit helps. I just hope
that it turns them *off* instead of making them into must-please-god toadies.
There's also supposed to be a touching scene with Ramses carrying the body of
his son.
Denis Loubet
great animation combined with some good writing made for an enjoyable time.
There were some sour points, though.
1. No mentioning of God's responsibility for the hardening of Pharoah's
heart.
2. Only moments after the plague that kills the firstborn of Egypt, the
people are singing happily about miracles.
3. No debauchery around a golden calf. Shucks.
Denis
Red Celt
wrote:
>
>>Eric Means wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> (i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places, surely
>>> the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it, instead of it
>>> only appearing in stories written some thirty years later.)
>>
>
>Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
>rationalistic as we are today?
>
>At the time of Jesus miracles were expected from wise men and healing
>gods.
>Rumours of miracles would not have made as big a splash then as
>it would today.
How many charlatans and false prophets does someone have to see before
they stop expecting miracles? Either miracles were wide-spread and
common-place, making Jesus's claims to be the true messiah rather
farcical, or miracles never happened.
Any other conclusions you could come to would be very noteworthy to
the record-keepers of the time. Would they not?
Red Celt
#883
cz...@ecn.ab.ca
: >Eric Means wrote:
: >>
: >> (i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places,
: >> surely the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it,
: >> instead of it only appearing in stories written some thirty years
: >> later.)
: Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
: rationalistic as we are today?
Are you forgetting the ancient Greeks? Apparently so.
: At the time of Jesus miracles were expected from wise men and healing
: gods. Rumours of miracles would not have made as big a splash then as
: it would today.
Cite references that this was the psychological/sociological norm in
ancient Galilee (sp?).
Explain the logic the would make these reports suddenly important
decades later.
Theists being the way they are, I suspect things were more like
Monty Python's Life of Brian than you would like to think.
--
*************************************************************
In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a
degree that it would be perverse to withold provisional
assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise
tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time
in physics classrooms.
-Stephen Jay Gould
*************************************************************
Djehuti Sundaka
cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
> Templeton (tem...@idx.com.auSPAM) wrote:
> : >Eric Means wrote:
> : >>
> : >> (i.e. if Jesus had really performed miracles in such public places,
> : >> surely the noted historians of the day would have made mention of it,
> : >> instead of it only appearing in stories written some thirty years
> : >> later.)
>
> : Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
> : rationalistic as we are today?
Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are theists, how
are people today any more rationalistic than the people of the ancient world?
>
>
> Are you forgetting the ancient Greeks? Apparently so.
How so? How were the Greeks with all of their myths and cults anymore
rationalistic than any other ancient people? Are you forgetting who the first
Xristianos were? After all, "Xristian" isn't a Jewish name.
cz...@ecn.ab.ca
: > : Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
: > : rationalistic as we are today?
: Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
: theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
: of the ancient world?
Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
: > Are you forgetting the ancient Greeks? Apparently so.
: How so? How were the Greeks with all of their myths and cults anymore
: rationalistic than any other ancient people?
I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced mathematics,
engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic philosophies, and
weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
glad...@my-dejanews.com
Coi...@MindSpring.com wrote:
> [threadmarker added per rmta guidelines]
>
> On Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:37:33 GMT, glad...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >Gladys will spank herself out of here soon enough.
>
> and I'd missed my chance to say, "Good bye, my love, and farewell."
>
> Do you know that, in your absence, you, the hater of patriarchal
> religions, are like IHVH in rmta? Many refer to you, many remember
> you, and they do tremble; but they dare not speak [type] your name!
Then how can you be certain that it is of me whom they are speaking? And are
you not crossing party lines by talking with me? Brave Brave Coises, you are
to be commended, and written of by the prophets!
>
>
> I always figured Jesus probably went East during those unaccounted
> years, and learned a few things from Hindu and Buddhist adepts. I
> think he was trying to explain Buddhism to Jews, without getting
> stoned (in a bad way) before he could finish his thought. Then Paul
> came along and re-wrote the whole thing so that Jesus the teacher
> became Christ the Graeco-Roman God/Savior/Spirit/Alpha-and-Omega.
Could very well be, you would think we would find a trace of him in the
ancient eastern extant.
> Now, in late-20th-century America, Christianity is largely a quaint,
> yet still beloved custom.
the christians need to change their religion in line with rational tenets
leading to a common ground with the islamics, jews, and atheists. it is time
to rethink the bible.
We have two state religions: Capitalism and
> Law.
what do you mean?
Whatever Clinton did, and then lied about, it wasn't relevant to
> the exercise of the office of president
Well, making a poiint of getting on telephone with congressmen while monica
made her curious way about his body was a little much, but he had read that
these things happen for successful congressmen, he had seen it in the old
movie starring the guy from mash and meryl streep which was on cable last
week.
And anyway, he isn't getting any younger, liasons with curious women will be
harder to arrange, perhaps as it turns out, he inhaled Janis Joplins "get it
while you can' in lieu of the marijuana.
until his ability to function
> was compromised by the investigation itself. But *perjury*, oooh,
> broken law, that's what counts. Reality's irrelevant, but those pieces
> of paper (money and legal writs) are the sacraments of our faith!
Now don;t go overboard Coises, we do need laws, and we do need money, if only
to buy roosters to bring to the orthodontist to get our braces.
>
> [I've written this next bit before, but I'm going to write it again:]
>
> It's amazing, kids. Here we have a president --- presumably
> elected by the political left! --- who has:
>
<snip>
>
> Dropped Joycelyn Elders like a hot potato, but sweetened our national
> countenance with the likes of Janet Reno,
Janet Reno is a brilliant and courageous woman, I would support her for
president. I betcha she would win. I think the world is ready for a woman in
the white house. the republicans will hint she is lesbian or something but so
what, even is she is lesbian, elect her anyway, and Monica can go get her old
job back.
>
><snip>
> There are
> *so*many*reasons* to loathe this guy, but he gets tarred and feathered
> for something stupid, thereby efficiently misdirecting the public once
> again, diverting us from what's really going on right under our noses.
clinton is not so bad. Maybe all the reasons you pointed out that I snipped
are why people like him so much, he is not extreme right or left, he tries to
behave rationally, with good conscience, and like many men, he makes mistakes
in his sexual adventures.
merry christmas coises and to all
Djehuti Sundaka
cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
> Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
> : > Templeton (tem...@idx.com.auSPAM) wrote:
>
> : > : Are we forgetting that people in the ancient world were not as
> : > : rationalistic as we are today?
>
> : Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
> : theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
> : of the ancient world?
>
> Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
According to "The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read", page 79, it is
claimed by both the Catholic News Service and Encyclopedia Britannica Book Of
The Year, 1989, that there are an estimated 1.7 billion (32.9%) believers in
Xristianity and 1.1 billion (21.6) Non-believers in any religious system.
This does not include the atheists who are among the Taoists, Buddhists,
Hindus, and Jains. Islam was next on the list and Judaism was last even
after Tribal religions. So, I've overstated myself since atheists are only a
little over a fifth of the world population. Then again, this information is
ten years old. I wonder what the new figures are.
>
>
> : > Are you forgetting the ancient Greeks? Apparently so.
>
> : How so? How were the Greeks with all of their myths and cults anymore
> : rationalistic than any other ancient people?
>
> I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced mathematics,
> engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic philosophies, and
> weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
Those would be the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians. The Greeks mainly
borrowed from them. Even the Romans had independent engineering
achievements. And in all cases, it was the intellectual few, not the masses
of society who were responsible for these intellectual achievements. And
even then, they weren't beyond superstitions.
Dexter
>the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16), there is more than sufficient historical
>evidence for the existence of Jesus [Yeshua] of Nazareth.
>
>Tacitus, Suetonius, the Jewish rabbinical traditions, and Josephus all
>mention Jesus quite outside the New Testament. The Josephus interpolation
>has long been discounted, and the original restored.
Oops! Don't know how this one slipped past me, but better late than never.
The evidence does not bear the weight of the conclusion. Tactitus and
Suetonius were not
contemporaries with Jesus. They were not even born until 25 and 50 years
after the fact. When
they reached adulthood both composed works which reported legends which had
come down to
them. Additionally, what Tactitus wrote could as easily have referred to the
worshipers of the
sun god Serapis, the followers of which were also called 'Christians'.
Suetonius is even more
ambiguous. Seutonius used the name 'Chrestus' (which was a common Roman name
and also the
name of the Egyptian god Serapis which had a large following in Rome), not
'Christus' which
would have been the Roman rendering of 'Christ.' In short, neither of your
references is able to
provide a historical foundation for the existence of Jesus because both were
born far to late and
because their writing are ambiguous towards Jesus at best.
The Josephus interpolation has long been discredited, as you acknowledge. As
for 'the original
being restored' it assumes that there was an original reference to be
restored. In light of the fact
that the interpolation is plunked down in the middle of an unrelated
commentary in the manner
that a tv show is interrupted by a commercial, and in light of the fact that
it is widely recognized
even in Christian circles that an interpolation was made, and in light of
the fact that the earliest
copies of Josephus make to mention of Jesus at all, this assumption would
seem to greatly beg
the issue. I am curious to know if the person who 'restored the original' is
a Christian.
Next, the origin and dating of the Jewish rabbinical traditions are poorly
understood so it is
impossible to demonstrate that they record actual events. Certainly no
written rabbinical records
containing such information date to the time of said events. 'Rabbinical
traditions' constitutes a
mushy foundation from which to argue for a historical Christ. The evidence
does not bear the
weight of the conclusion.
Finally, In all of the Roman records there is not found even a reference to
a trial or execution of
Jesus by Pontes Pilate. If a historical Jesus was indeed put to death the
event was to minor to
merit note. In fact zero extra-biblical Jesus-contemporary references can be
produced to support
the alleged existence of your Christ. Even the various versions of the
events given in the Bible
itself were not written until long after the fact.
The 'evidence' for a historical Christ is shoddy and all but non-existent.
Certainly you have failed
to demonstrate that such evidence exists.
-Dexter
"The only real information we have about Christ and His life is in the four
Gospels."
-apologists Henry Morris and Martin Clark
-The Bible Has the Answer
"There are no first-hand accounts of the life of Christ apart from the four
Gospels. All other
documents hath ave survived were written quite some time after the life of
Christ."
-Don Stewart
-Questions People Ask Most About the Bible
"I can tell you right now... there are no bona fide documented historical
materials about the
secret teaching or life of Jesus outside of the New Testament documents.
It's fantasy and it has
no historical reference whatever."
-apologist Walter Martin
-April 7, 1989
-'The Bible Answer Man' radio program.
Merry Christmas all! Enjoy this the greatest of secular holidays!
erikc
maf...@dial.pipex.com (maff91) wrote:
-- origin: alt.atheism:
>|On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:49:08 -0500, kyle <third...@yahoo.com>
>|wrote:
>|
>|>
>|>
>|>raven1 wrote:
>|>>
>|>> Lorelei wrote:
>|>> >
>|>> > |bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>|>> > |like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>|>> > |hope the people who brought it back get raped by the Protestants while
>|>> > their
>|>> > |babies are molested by Catholics.
>|>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|>> >
>|>>
>|>> especially after his response to Sarah.
>|>
>|>and I will provide a BIG HUGE SECOND to that nomination!!!!!!!!
>|
>|1. Lorelei
>|2. Kyle
>|3. Michelle
>|4. maff91
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
| "The Truth against the World."
| -- Bardic Motto
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
---- Noam Chomsky
cz...@ecn.ab.ca
: > : Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
: > : theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
: > : of the ancient world?
: >
: > Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
: So, I've overstated myself since atheists are only a little over a
: fifth of the world population.
Yeah, there is a bit of a difference between a half and a fifth.
: > I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced
: > mathematics, engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic
: > philosophies, and weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
: Those would be the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians. The Greeks
: mainly borrowed from them.
Citations? Never heard of a Sumerian Heliocentric model or a Babylonian
theory of atomics. I grant that the Egyptians developed Trigonometry,
but I confess to ignorance on the theoretical acheivements (sp?) of the
other two, and would appreciate a reference or three.
: Even the Romans had independent engineering achievements.
Granted, but they borrowed their principles from the Greeks.
maff91
>Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
>: > Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: > : Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
>: > : theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
>: > : of the ancient world?
>: >
>: > Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
>
>: So, I've overstated myself since atheists are only a little over a
>: fifth of the world population.
>
>Yeah, there is a bit of a difference between a half and a fifth.
>
>: > I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced
>: > mathematics, engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic
>: > philosophies, and weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
>
>: Those would be the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians. The Greeks
>: mainly borrowed from them.
>
>Citations? Never heard of a Sumerian Heliocentric model or a Babylonian
>theory of atomics. I grant that the Egyptians developed Trigonometry,
>but I confess to ignorance on the theoretical acheivements (sp?) of the
>other two, and would appreciate a reference or three.
http://www.math.wayne.edu/ugresearch/egyfra.html
http://www-groups.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Babylonian_and_Egyptian.html
http://eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/ancient/numbers.htm
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/VideoTestbed/Projects/Mummy/egypt.html
http://scitsc.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/mm2217/en.htm
http://scitsc.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/mm2217/sbn.htm
http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~jbieber/HSonline/mes-math.htm
http://www.psinvention.com/zoetic/time.htm
http://it.stlawu.edu/~dmelvill/mesomath/index.html
William Barwell
Michelle Malkin <hypatia@b5b7stsw> wrote:
>wolf...@nospam.com (Jessica M. Wolfman) wrote:
>>On 21 Dec 1998 06:17:34 GMT, e...@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <NO%d2.1175$f4.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
>>> "Vincent Allah" <Infat...@MariahC.Com> writes:
>>>
>>>>bombs badly? I'm tired of shitty movies that censor the truth of the Bible
>>>>like how the Israelites got slaves after Moses bitched about their slavery
>>>>so much?
Why was god so cruel and killed the first born of Egypt?
I understand the film makes a fair attempt to stick with
the Bible. If it shows the biblical god hardening the hearts
of Pharoah and the Egyptians, then punishing them for something
that god himself caused, this could be rather good for rationalism.
Most kids will never really read the Bible. And thus not catch such
mindless cruelties. If the film brings these things out faithfully,
and what litle I have read of it seems it doesn't sugar coat these things,
it may thus, be a good thing.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
William Barwell
Jessica M. Wolfman <wolf...@nospam.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:40:17 GMT, hypatia@b5b7stsw (Michelle Malkin) wrote:
>
>>>Although I haven't seen it yet, I got a detailed description from a friend of
>>>mine who got sneek-peek tickets to it. Apparently some of the scenes, such as
>>>the killing of the first-born, are extremely gruesome: in one part you see a
>>>young boy carrying water when the spectre of death descends on him, and he just
>>>gasps and falls over -- while not graphic, it *sounded* like a disturbing scene,
>>>and my friend was saying that while it's one thing to hear it in a story, it's
>>>quite another to see it on the Big Screen; it's more personal that way.
>>>
>>In that case, it may not have the affect the religious folks want.
>>Seeing such a thing might be the first step in turning a child off
>>religion. "Mommy, why did God kill that little boy? He wasn't hurting
>>anyone. If you or Daddy do something wrong, will God kill me?"
>
>
>There's also supposed to be a touching scene with Ramses carrying the body of
>his son.
Sounds like they snitched that scene from the original movie version,
Yul Brenner played Pharoah.
William Barwell
>Well, I saw the movie and it was not nearly as bad as I had feared. Some
>great animation combined with some good writing made for an enjoyable time.
>There were some sour points, though.
>
>1. No mentioning of God's responsibility for the hardening of Pharoah's
>heart.
They chickened out...
>
>2. Only moments after the plague that kills the firstborn of Egypt, the
>people are singing happily about miracles.
I have long had a theory that one of the reasons the Jews have had
a hard time of it over the last 2500 years is that they celebrate this
cruel god and his alledged atrocities during Passover. Celebrating
this cruel god's tricks seems rather ugly.
Djehuti Sundaka
cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
> Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
> : > Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
> : > : Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
> : > : theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
> : > : of the ancient world?
> : >
> : > Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
>
> : So, I've overstated myself since atheists are only a little over a
> : fifth of the world population.
>
> Yeah, there is a bit of a difference between a half and a fifth.
Only about a third.
>
>
> : > I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced
> : > mathematics, engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic
> : > philosophies, and weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
>
> : Those would be the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians. The Greeks
> : mainly borrowed from them.
>
> Citations? Never heard of a Sumerian Heliocentric model or a Babylonian
> theory of atomics. I grant that the Egyptians developed Trigonometry,
> but I confess to ignorance on the theoretical acheivements (sp?) of the
> other two, and would appreciate a reference or three.
I am currently not aware of heliocentric models before Copernicus whose
inspiration is said to have been derived from Pythagoreanism (the most
Egyptian of the Greek philosophies if not a mere Greek version of such) and
whose mathematical modelling seems to have been based on the works of Nasir
ad-Din at-Tusi of the 1200s and Ibn ash Shatir of the 1300s. However, I
certainly wouldn't be surprised if the heliocentric model is one day to be
found among the works of Aryabhata. Atomic theory is a modern phenomenon
merely named after an ancient rather simple logical (yet erroneous) conclusion
that things should naturally be composed of some standard indivisible units.
These units were said to differ only in size and shape and the ancient
conclusion itself was merely a quantified version of the "Eleatic One" which
in turn is practically identical to the Egyptian abstraction of "Atum" or the
"complete, undifferentiated One". Although some would see the origin of the
word "atom" in "Atum", the two words are totally unrelated.
>
>
> : Even the Romans had independent engineering achievements.
>
> Granted, but they borrowed their principles from the Greeks.
Then I would have to ask which Greek principals went into the building of the
aquaducts or of the canopy which once covered the Roman stadium (which modern
engineers are still trying to figure out).
maff91
<AHUG...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>
>cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
>
>> Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>> : cz...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
>> : > Djehuti Sundaka (AHUG...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>> : > : Apart from there being just about as many atheists as there are
>> : > : theists, how are people today any more rationalistic than the people
>> : > : of the ancient world?
>> : >
>> : > Just as many of one as the other? How d'you figure?
>>
>> : So, I've overstated myself since atheists are only a little over a
>> : fifth of the world population.
>>
>> Yeah, there is a bit of a difference between a half and a fifth.
>
>Only about a third.
>
>>
>>
>> : > I guess I was refering to the culture that produced advanced
>> : > mathematics, engineering, heliocentric and atomic models, atheistic
>> : > philosophies, and weren't just a bunch of by-the-numbers bleaters.
>>
>> : Those would be the Egyptians, Sumerians, and Babylonians. The Greeks
>> : mainly borrowed from them.
>>
>> Citations? Never heard of a Sumerian Heliocentric model or a Babylonian
>> theory of atomics. I grant that the Egyptians developed Trigonometry,
>> but I confess to ignorance on the theoretical acheivements (sp?) of the
>> other two, and would appreciate a reference or three.
>
>I am currently not aware of heliocentric models before Copernicus whose
<http://dir.yahoo.com/Science/Astronomy/Astronomers/Copernicus__Nicolaus__1473_1543_/>
>inspiration is said to have been derived from Pythagoreanism (the most
<http://dir.yahoo.com/Science/Mathematics/History/Mathematicians/Pythagoras__c_580___c_520_BCE_/>
>Egyptian of the Greek philosophies if not a mere Greek version of such) and
>whose mathematical modelling seems to have been based on the works of Nasir
>ad-Din at-Tusi of the 1200s and Ibn ash Shatir of the 1300s. However, I
http://www.erols.com/zenithco/tusi.html
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Tusi.html
http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/199701/19970121.7.html
>certainly wouldn't be surprised if the heliocentric model is one day to be
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Aristarchus.html
>found among the works of Aryabhata. Atomic theory is a modern phenomenon
<http://dir.yahoo.com/Science/Mathematics/History/Mathematicians/Aryabhata__476_550_/>
>merely named after an ancient rather simple logical (yet erroneous) conclusion
>that things should naturally be composed of some standard indivisible units.
>These units were said to differ only in size and shape and the ancient
>conclusion itself was merely a quantified version of the "Eleatic One" which
>in turn is practically identical to the Egyptian abstraction of "Atum" or the
>"complete, undifferentiated One". Although some would see the origin of the
>word "atom" in "Atum", the two words are totally unrelated.
>
>>
>>
>> : Even the Romans had independent engineering achievements.
>>
>> Granted, but they borrowed their principles from the Greeks.
>
>Then I would have to ask which Greek principals went into the building of the
>aquaducts or of the canopy which once covered the Roman stadium (which modern
>engineers are still trying to figure out).
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *************************************************************
>> In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a
>> degree that it would be perverse to withold provisional
>> assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise
>> tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time
>> in physics classrooms.
>> -Stephen Jay Gould
>> *************************************************************
>
>
*****************************************************
ICQ#26544319
http://wwp.icq.com/26544319
*****************************************************
Djehuti Sundaka
impressed.
cz...@ecn.ab.ca
: On 25 Dec 98 04:23:37 GMT, cz...@ecn.ab.ca () wrote:
: >I confess to ignorance on the theoretical acheivements (sp?) of the
: >other two, and would appreciate a reference or three.
: http://www.math.wayne.edu/ugresearch/egyfra.html
: http://www-groups.dcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Babylonian_and_Egyptian.html
: http://eyelid.ukonline.co.uk/ancient/numbers.htm
: http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/VideoTestbed/Projects/Mummy/egypt.html
: http://scitsc.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/mm2217/en.htm
: http://scitsc.wlv.ac.uk/university/scit/modules/mm2217/sbn.htm
: http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~jbieber/HSonline/mes-math.htm
: http://www.psinvention.com/zoetic/time.htm
: http://it.stlawu.edu/~dmelvill/mesomath/index.html
Or *three*, Maff -- or *three*!
Thanks.