Homosexual Christian (True or False)
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 12:32:03 -0600, Charles Lincoln
<clin...@earthlink.com> said:
>You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
>
>http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
Definitely a site writhing in homo hatred! Thanks for the alert,
Charles.
Well, the Bible thumpers are on a jihad...thanks to Pres. Clinton's
wavering on the "gays in the military" issue, and signing DOMA. He
basically gave a green light to the homophobes to do what they will
with us. Many liberals have blood on their hands, too. Another
"liberal" Ralph Nader was quoted when asked what his stand on gay
rights is: "I don't get involved in gonadal politics."
We have far, far less friends anywhere, than we care to realize. This
is not meant to give up all hope...for I see our victory dawning,
regardless of how vulnerable we are in this perverted nation. It's in
the stars.
I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
----------signature:
I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
(except on request; will consider pen-pals).
Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
JTEM
Ezekiel Krahlin <Chief_T...@Athenia.New> wrote:
>We have far, far less friends anywhere, than we care to realize.
Who's this "we"?
> This
>is not meant to give up all hope...for I see our victory dawning,
>regardless of how vulnerable we are in this perverted nation. It's in
>the stars.
*shudder*
Oh, don't get the wrong idea. This doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I
gree 100%. It's just that, considering what else you see, you've given us
every reason to believe that you suffer from faulty vision.
John
--
JT...@SUNSPOT.TIAC.NET
Ezekiel Krahlin
>You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
JUST FOR THE VIOLENTLY BIGOTED.
Greg Parkinson
Charles Lincoln wrote:
>
> You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
>
Like the people who wrote the information at this
site, you're lying. It's not about gay xtians, it's
advocating the death penalty for gay people.
Gary Fee
Charles Lincoln wrote:
>
> You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
>
> http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
I agree, you have to hear(?) this stuff! You won't believe your
ears(?). This site is run by some cynical opportunist named "Pastor"
Peter J. Peters (the J stands for Jesus Christ Himself). Evidently
Petey is not an ordained minister, or if he is it's in some denomination
like Bubba's Church of Bigotry; -Real Ordinations Only $20!
This pinhead pastor actually believes that a congressional resolution
asking the president to declare 1983 the Year of the Bible is, in fact,
a federal law permitting the murder of homosexuals. Like most of his
kind, he takes great exception to queers who engage in self-defense.
Great exception.
It won't take you long at his site before you realize that he is
attempting to cash-in on gay-bashing. All he really wants is your
money. He'll sell you all sorts of books, pamphlets and audio tapes.
Would you like Divine Grace or fries with your order? He even has some
White Supremacist literature for sale. Go check it out.
erikc
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 05:51:55 GMT
Chief_T...@Athenia.New (Ezekiel Krahlin)
as message <33191375...@news.wco.com>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
>|>
>|>http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
>|
>|Charles.
>|
>|Well, the Bible thumpers are on a jihad...thanks to Pres. Clinton's
>|wavering on the "gays in the military" issue, and signing DOMA. He
>|basically gave a green light to the homophobes to do what they will
>|with us. Many liberals have blood on their hands, too. Another
>|"liberal" Ralph Nader was quoted when asked what his stand on gay
>|rights is: "I don't get involved in gonadal politics."
>|
>|is not meant to give up all hope...for I see our victory dawning,
>|regardless of how vulnerable we are in this perverted nation. It's in
>|the stars.
>|
>|Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
>|very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
>|point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
>|atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
>|database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
>|then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
>|I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
Very important question: Will we try them for attitudes or actions?
Erikc -- fire...@insync.net
Most christians are like their bible, they are infallible and
show no humility when they are wrong. -- Capella Dallas, Tx
To see just how messed up these people are, go to:
http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page)
http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger
/* recently updated */
S & R
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 12:32:03 -0600, Charles Lincoln
> <clin...@earthlink.com> said:
>
> >You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
> >
> >http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
>
> Definitely a site writhing in homo hatred! Thanks for the alert,
> Charles.
>
> Well, the Bible thumpers are on a jihad...
>thanks to Pres. Clinton's wavering on the "gays in the military" issue, >and signing DOMA. He
> basically gave a green light to the homophobes to do what they will
> with us. Many liberals have blood on their hands, too. Another
> "liberal" Ralph Nader was quoted when asked what his stand on gay
> rights is: "I don't get involved in gonadal politics."
>
Clinton is all for the Homosexuals or who ever will donate to his cause.
Hey, you can even stay the night in one of the Presidental suites if you
have enough money.
> We have far, far less friends anywhere, than we care to realize. This
> is not meant to give up all hope...for I see our victory dawning,
> regardless of how vulnerable we are in this perverted nation. It's in
> the stars.
You are writing to a christian newsgroup, I assume you are Christian?
If
so then you know that Homosexuals will have free run of the world soon.
Read your bible!
> I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
remember you wrote "I predict". According to your other post you have
a ????revelation from God???
> Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
> very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
> point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
> atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
> database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
> then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
> I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
This is going to happen to Christians not gays.
zoe wilfong
S & R <bywa...@nidlink.com> wrote:
>> I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
>
>remember you wrote "I predict". According to your other post you have
>a ????revelation from God???
>
>> Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
>> very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
>> point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
>> atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
>> database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
>> then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
>> I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
>
>This is going to happen to Christians not gays.
Yeah, the bible's been saying that for how many thousands of years now?
The bible is a fairy tale. Face it.
zoe
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 19:57:08 -0800, S & R <bywa...@nidlink.com> said:
>Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>> Well, the Bible thumpers are on a jihad...
>Do you know the meaning of Jihad? It is a Moslum term for War.
Absolutely.
>You are writing to a christian newsgroup, I assume you are Christian?
>If so then you know that Homosexuals will have free run of the world soon.
>Read your bible!
Assumption is correct: I am a Christian...but a free-thinking one,
which puts me at odds with your kind.
You read too much into the bible. You dorks who claim to be
literalists sure extract a lot of assumptions and subjective innuendos
from "The Good Book". No, Lesbians and Thracians will not have the
run of the world in any sense you mean it. They will have the run of
the world in the sense that "the meek shall inherit the earth". Of
course, you phony Christians will perceive gay liberation as a sign of
a reign of evil before Jesus establishes the kingdom. But that is
only because you charlatans don't deserve to know what's really
happening.
>> I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
>
>remember you wrote "I predict". According to your other post you have
>a ????revelation from God???
I am a visionary, yes. Angels have appeared to me in dreams and
visions all through my life. Now, my voice has been freed to speak
what I am destined to reveal.
>> Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
>> very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
>> point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
>> atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
>> database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
>> then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
>> I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
>
>This is going to happen to Christians not gays.
Hey, far be it from me to try to point out your nearsighted, bigoted
viewpoints. Remain in your ivory tower of smug self-righteousness.
Chist *is* homosexual...He and His Father are lovers. It is a crime
against nature, a perversion, a blasphemy, to preach violence and
discrimination against same-sex lovers...and against anyone else, for
that matter.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 23:13:16 GMT, firew...@insync.net (erikc) said:
>>|I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
>>|Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
>>|very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
>>|point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
>>|atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
>>|database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
>>|then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
>>|I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
>
>Very important question: Will we try them for attitudes or actions?
I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
other minorities, and against women and children.
Todd K. Pedlar
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
> I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
> arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> other minorities, and against women and children.
Will similar laws be enacted to protect such slander against
Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd K. Pedlar - Northwestern Univ., Nucl. & Particle Physics
FNAL E835 Homepage: http://numep1.phys.nwu.edu/tkp.html
------------------------------------------------------------------
Phone: (847) 491-8630 (630) 840-8048 Fax: (847) 491-8627
------------------------------------------------------------------
" semper ubi sub ubi " Anon., 15th c.
------------------------------------------------------------------
bbhe...@aol.com
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 23:13:16 GMT, firew...@insync.net (erikc) said:
>
> >>|I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
> >>|Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
> >>|very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
> >>|point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
> >>|atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
> >>|database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
> >>|then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
> >>|I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
> >
> >Very important question: Will we try them for attitudes or actions?
>
> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
> arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> other minorities, and against women and children.
>
> I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
> (except on request; will consider pen-pals).
> Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
Yes, I live in Canada and I love it because I am no longer 'persecuted'
by narrow-minded Christian types just because my love is a man not a
woman. I can sue the pants(no pun intended) off any bigot who throws
anti-gay crap my way. And if you spread hatred against Blacks, Jews or
any other recognizable minority you will be punished likewise.
This is only civilized! Maybe you Americans live rolling around in
hatred and discrimination but we Canadians, amongst other advanced
nations, are against such intolerance.
Fetus
Todd K. Pedlar wrote:
>
> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>. After all, it is a criminal
> > offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> > other minorities, and against women and children.
>
> Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
>
>
threats against any person or group; the only thing the gov't can outlaw
is a credible threat of violence. Similarly, there are no "group libel"
laws- meaning even though I could be held liable for saying a particular
gay man was a child molester when I knew he was not, nothing could stop
me from saying "All gay men are child molesters," even though it's
false...
I don't like that state of the law, but that's how it is today in the
USA...
Fetus
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:48:20 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
<to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said:
>Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
>> I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
>> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
>> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
>> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
>> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
>> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
>> arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
>> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
>> other minorities, and against women and children.
>
>Will similar laws be enacted to protect such slander against
>Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
Just like the Nazis, when they finally were being beaten back, came up
with their "Oh, you're pesecuting us!" whining, just as you phony
Christians are now. Your kind have willfully made yourselves an enemy
to anything civilized, decent, and (yes) Christian. You reap what you
sow...you made your bed, now sleep in it.
Jesus said "When I return there will be many who say: 'Haven't we
done good works in your name?', and I'll say to them: 'I know you
not'." It seems that you, Todd, fit quite nicely into this category.
---
Zeke Krahlin, Jehovah's Queer Witness.
(Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
Please keep our dialogues public; private mail by request only.
Hostile private replies will be re-posted in the public arena.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 17:56:45 -0500, bbhe...@aol.com said:
>Yes, I live in Canada and I love it because I am no longer 'persecuted'
>by narrow-minded Christian types just because my love is a man not a
>woman. I can sue the pants(no pun intended) off any bigot who throws
>anti-gay crap my way. And if you spread hatred against Blacks, Jews or
>any other recognizable minority you will be punished likewise.
>
>This is only civilized! Maybe you Americans live rolling around in
>hatred and discrimination but we Canadians, amongst other advanced
>nations, are against such intolerance.
I am an American who is ashamed of our homophobic society...and
angered. If I had the funds and/or connections, I would have move to
a more wholesome society like yours, a long time ago. Perhaps
eventually, I will still be able to...I will apply for my passport
this month.
Things are almost bad enough, where I wouldn't be surprised of some of
our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
speaking up.
erikc
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 09:44:20 -0500
Gary Fee <gar...@erols.com>
as message <331992...@erols.com>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
>|Charles Lincoln wrote:
>|>
>|> You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
>|>
>|> http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
>|
>|
>|ears(?). This site is run by some cynical opportunist named "Pastor"
>|Peter J. Peters (the J stands for Jesus Christ Himself). Evidently
>|Petey is not an ordained minister, or if he is it's in some denomination
>|like Bubba's Church of Bigotry; -Real Ordinations Only $20!
>|
>|This pinhead pastor actually believes that a congressional resolution
>|asking the president to declare 1983 the Year of the Bible is, in fact,
>|a federal law permitting the murder of homosexuals. Like most of his
>|kind, he takes great exception to queers who engage in self-defense.
>|Great exception.
>|
>|It won't take you long at his site before you realize that he is
>|attempting to cash-in on gay-bashing. All he really wants is your
>|money. He'll sell you all sorts of books, pamphlets and audio tapes.
>|Would you like Divine Grace or fries with your order? He even has some
>|White Supremacist literature for sale. Go check it out.
Been there, done that. How do you think this peckerhead would feel if 500
people sent him emails offering passionate marriage or sex proposals? Of
course, don't write anything you wouldn't want posted on a web page, but you
get the picture. ;-)
JTEM
Ezekiel Krahlin <Chief_T...@Athenia.New> wrote:
One of these days you're going to surprise us and post something worth
reading.
John
--
JT...@SUNSPOT.TIAC.NET
Sandra
In article <331BD6...@interport.net>, Alan Miles
<ami...@interport.net> chose to share these nuggets of wisdom with all
and sundry:
> The gay rights movement
>was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
>in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
>earth.
Why do so many of you come over here (Britain) to live, then, if it's so
great over there?
--
+ I wept because I had no shoes, then I met a man who had no feet...... +
+ ...so I said "Hey, you got any shoes you're not using?" -- Rich Brown +
+ +
+++++++++++++++++++Sandra Bond+++++...@ho-street.demon.co.uk+++++++++
John Liesch
Alan Miles <ami...@interport.net> wrote:
>Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>>
>> Things are almost bad enough, where I wouldn't be surprised of some of
>> our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
>> America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
>> there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
>> speaking up.
>
>You've apparently missed a number of developments that have been widely
>covered by the world press. First, America continues controversially to
>admit refugees claiming that deportation will mean their persecution
>based on sexual orientation.
Unless they are HIV+. Even a Canadian who is HIV+ is unable
even to *visit* the USA let alone emigrate or claim refugee
status.
>Second, Ontario, Canada, continues to be plagued by a pornography law
>that is often used to discriminate against gays. By defining
>pornography as discrimination against women, thank you homophobe
>Catherine MacKinnon, this law routinely harrasses gay bookstores like
>Glad Light in Toronto.
>Canada is mostly a great place for gays. It doesn't compare with most
>parts of the US for gay rights breakthroughs. The gay rights movement
>was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
>in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
>earth.
Stonewall happened at the end of June, 1969, in New York. In
Canada, we didn't riot, we merely decriminalized sodomy the
year before, something that 26 or so American states have
yet to do. Discrimination based on sexual orientation is de
facto, if not de jure, illegal under the Human Rights Code
of Canada and our Constitution. All but two of the provinces
forbid discrimination based on sexual orientation and in
Alberta, one of the hold outs, the issue is still in the
courts. Benefits for same sex spouses, as a result of said
anti-discrimination legislation, are available to most
Canadians.
What are the American gay rights breakthroughs that are
unavailable in Canada?
John Liesch
Alan Miles
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> Things are almost bad enough, where I wouldn't be surprised of some of
> our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
> America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
> there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
> speaking up.
You've apparently missed a number of developments that have been widely
covered by the world press. First, America continues controversially to
admit refugees claiming that deportation will mean their persecution
based on sexual orientation.
Second, Ontario, Canada, continues to be plagued by a pornography law
Quen...@aol.com
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 17:56:45 -0500, bbhe...@aol.com said:
>
> >Yes, I live in Canada and I love it because I am no longer 'persecuted'
> >by narrow-minded Christian types just because my love is a man not a
> >woman. I can sue the pants(no pun intended) off any bigot who throws
> >anti-gay crap my way. And if you spread hatred against Blacks, Jews or
> >any other recognizable minority you will be punished likewise.
> >
> >This is only civilized! Maybe you Americans live rolling around in
> >hatred and discrimination but we Canadians, amongst other advanced
> >nations, are against such intolerance.
>
> I am an American who is ashamed of our homophobic society...and
> angered. If I had the funds and/or connections, I would have move to
> a more wholesome society like yours, a long time ago. Perhaps
> eventually, I will still be able to...I will apply for my passport
> this month.
>
> our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
> America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
> there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
> speaking up.
>
> Zeke Krahlin, Jehovah's Queer Witness.
> (Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
>
> Please keep our dialogues public; private mail by request only.
> Hostile private replies will be re-posted in the public arena.
It is also quite easy to move to Canada if you have a lover from here.
Our customs officials are not terribly interested in whether your lover
is a homo or a hetero.
Quen...@aol.com
Alan Miles wrote:
>
> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
> >
> > Things are almost bad enough, where I wouldn't be surprised of some of
> > our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
> > America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
> > there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
> > speaking up.
>
> covered by the world press. First, America continues controversially to
> admit refugees claiming that deportation will mean their persecution
> based on sexual orientation.
>
> Second, Ontario, Canada, continues to be plagued by a pornography law
> that is often used to discriminate against gays. By defining
> pornography as discrimination against women, thank you homophobe
> Catherine MacKinnon, this law routinely harrasses gay bookstores like
> Glad Light in Toronto.
>
> Canada is mostly a great place for gays. It doesn't compare with most
> parts of the US for gay rights breakthroughs. The gay rights movement
> was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
> in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
> earth.
Let us not forget that Quebec (Canada) was the first territory in THE
WORLD to have full gay rights protection!!! Don't underestimate Canada.
In the late 1960's Pierre Trudeau decriminalized homosexuality
country-wide, stating that it no one's business what happens in the
bedroom between consenting adults.
Todd K. Pedlar
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:48:20 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
> <to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said:
>
> >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
> >
> >> I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
> >> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
> >> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
> >> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
> >> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
> >> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
> >> arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
> >> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> >> other minorities, and against women and children.
> >
> >Will similar laws be enacted to protect such slander against
> >Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
>
> Just like the Nazis, when they finally were being beaten back, came up
> with their "Oh, you're pesecuting us!" whining, just as you phony
> Christians are now. Your kind have willfully made yourselves an enemy
> to anything civilized, decent, and (yes) Christian. You reap what you
> sow...you made your bed, now sleep in it.
>
> Jesus said "When I return there will be many who say: 'Haven't we
> done good works in your name?', and I'll say to them: 'I know you
> not'." It seems that you, Todd, fit quite nicely into this category.
What do you know about me? You know nothing, and have no right
to categorize me in any way. It is the height of arrogance to think
that you know anything about how Christ will welcome me or anybody
in the end times. Similarly, your cute little Nazi analogy was uncalled
for and irrelevant to my question. Let me rephrase what I was saying.
What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
Todd
Sam Woodgeard
For those over 50, they know that before 1960 there was not
one church in the world who ever considered any such thing
as a homosexual christian...
A homosexual christian can be found in the same place
with your virgin prostitutes.
Look at all the phamplets, sermons, and things said about
homosexuals from 1950 back to the beginning of time.
It seems that in the latter days, God has changed his mind?
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:08:20 -0500, Quen...@aol.com said:
>It is also quite easy to move to Canada if you have a lover from here.
>Our customs officials are not terribly interested in whether your lover
>is a homo or a hetero.
Geez, that's great. I'm in love with *every* Canadian, now! (Any
takers? I'm not cute, I'm bald, I'm a pain in the ass, and I'm over
the hill.)
---
Ezekiel Krahlin
>In article <331BD6...@interport.net>, Alan Miles
><ami...@interport.net> chose to share these nuggets of wisdom with all
>and sundry:
>> The gay rights movement
>>was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
>>in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
>>earth.
>
>Why do so many of you come over here (Britain) to live, then, if it's so
>great over there?
Hey, Sandra:
Just because I was born in the U.S.A., does not mean I have any
obligation to defend it. Americanism is a fanatice religion in
itself...an extension of the bible belt mentality. This country
disgusts me...and has nothing to do with the many excellent people who
also live here.
I believe that America filters out many of the favorable gay
achievements in other nations. It filters out as much as it can,
regarding *any* progressive changes anywhere else. Hard core
Amerikans want to believe that we do everything better, that we
invented everything good. They see Europeans as a bunch of sissys,
with no spine or intellect. We are a very barbarian, vulgar nation in
general...to which the world will soon respond and force the U.S. to
back off of much of its imperialism across the globe.
Any homosexual fleeing persecutation from her or his own culture...and
who knows anything about the world...would definitely avoid Amerika
like the plague, and go to some other democracy that is truly
progressive: Sweden, England, Canada, Denmark, etc.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 20:11:14 -0500, Quen...@aol.com said:
>Alan Miles wrote:
>>
>> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>> >
>> > Things are almost bad enough, where I wouldn't be surprised of some of
>> > our more advanced democracies grant refugee status to all GayFolk in
>> > America. Keep up your good works, my comrade from Canada. If only
>> > there were more people like you *everywhere*! Thanks so much for
>> > speaking up.
>>
>> You've apparently missed a number of developments that have been widely
>> covered by the world press. First, America continues controversially to
>> admit refugees claiming that deportation will mean their persecution
>> based on sexual orientation.
No, I haven't...and I'm glad to see our nation is making *some*
progress. But I can't understand why a Thracian (GayFolk) would
choose U.S.A, when there are so many *better* options, that is, more
progressive democracies: Canada, Scandanavia, and some other Western
European nations.
>> Second, Ontario, Canada, continues to be plagued by a pornography law
>> that is often used to discriminate against gays. By defining
>> pornography as discrimination against women, thank you homophobe
>> Catherine MacKinnon, this law routinely harrasses gay bookstores like
>> Glad Light in Toronto.
Not to discredit your excellent updates and contributions...for which
I am glad that people like you exist. I just see the homophobia so
widely spread across this country...while many other democracies are
ahead of us, across the board.
>> Canada is mostly a great place for gays. It doesn't compare with most
>> parts of the US for gay rights breakthroughs. The gay rights movement
>> was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
>> in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
>> earth.
It's a struggle, because it's still illegal...because the majority of
our society insists on perceiving Thracians as dirty, pornographic,
and subhuman. Look at all the Internet software designed to prevent
children from being exposed to pornography...they all include search
terms: "homosexual," "lesbian," and "gay".
Gay marriage is now legal in at least several democracies...hence, the
struggle is moot.
>Let us not forget that Quebec (Canada) was the first territory in THE
>WORLD to have full gay rights protection!!! Don't underestimate Canada.
>In the late 1960's Pierre Trudeau decriminalized homosexuality
>country-wide, stating that it no one's business what happens in the
>bedroom between consenting adults.
Glad to hear you're doing so well on this issue, as are numerous other
western cultures. In general, the U.S.A. is really dismal,
still...regardless of the pluses in our favor, which are way too few.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 16:36:49 -0800, Fetus <fe...@inow.com> said:
>Todd K. Pedlar wrote:
>>
>> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>>. After all, it is a criminal
>> > offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
>> > other minorities, and against women and children.
>>
>> Will similar laws be enacted to protect such slander against
>> Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
>>
>>
>Uh, no, it's not illegal to make purely verbal slurs and rhetorical
>threats against any person or group; the only thing the gov't can outlaw
>is a credible threat of violence. Similarly, there are no "group libel"
>laws- meaning even though I could be held liable for saying a particular
>gay man was a child molester when I knew he was not, nothing could stop
>me from saying "All gay men are child molesters," even though it's
>false...
>
>I don't like that state of the law, but that's how it is today in the
>USA...
>
Beg to differ with you, you will not see anyone allowed to get away
with, for very long, making violent slurs against black folk, women,
or most any other group. People would start talking him down, and
call the cops. They would then be arrested or told to shut up and
move on. The only time this is not the case, is when the oppressor's
platform is against homosexuality.
Numerous times, the KKK has been shout out of places to demonstrate
their own racist hatred. People spoke up, they found a way to thwart
them. This sure doesn't happen with groups or individuals who spout
homophobic bigotry...why, it's become a national sport!
Rick Pikul
{Followups trimmed.}
Todd K. Pedlar (to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu) wrote:
{Foomph...}
: What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
: minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
: any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
: minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
Simply put, hate crime laws protect everyone. If the law covers
sexual orientation then a hate crime against a hetro person is legally the
same as one against a gay or bi person. The same goes if religion is
covered (and the religous portions of thoes laws are _much_ easier to pass).
--
Phoenix, FALH
Jerome Lanig
: >
: > On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 09:48:20 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
: > <to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said:
: >
: > >Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
: > >
: > >> I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
: > >> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
: > >> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
: > >> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
: > >> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
: > >> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
: > >> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
: > >> other minorities, and against women and children.
: > >
: > >Will similar laws be enacted to protect such slander against
: > >Christians? I think not. Ah, what PC BS.
: > Just like the Nazis, when they finally were being beaten back, came up
: > with their "Oh, you're pesecuting us!" whining, just as you phony
: > Christians are now. Your kind have willfully made yourselves an enemy
: > to anything civilized, decent, and (yes) Christian. You reap what you
: > sow...you made your bed, now sleep in it.
: >
: > Jesus said "When I return there will be many who say: 'Haven't we
: > done good works in your name?', and I'll say to them: 'I know you
: > not'." It seems that you, Todd, fit quite nicely into this category.
: What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
: minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
: any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
: minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
Todd, I'm not sure if the US can enact laws to specifically protect
any religion. It might could do something to protect all religions
but no specific one. Personally, I feel that all of these protection
laws concerning speech should be abolished. We should be able to say
what we want w/o fear of slander or libel (unless you can prove malice).
Followups have been trimmed.
Jerome Lanig
io...@aeronet.com
You are as backwards as they come, Sam. Homosexuals have been
Christians for that last 1997 years (give or take the disputed 4 years).
Homosexuals were just married to women because society gave them no
other choice (or of course they became priests, in which case they LED
the Christian communities). Get a grip on reality, open your eyes to
what is really going on. Stop reading the bible and read some history
and current events!
Ward Stewart
jwli...@unixg.ubc.ca (John Liesch) wrote:
>>Canada is mostly a great place for gays. It doesn't compare with most
>>parts of the US for gay rights breakthroughs. The gay rights movement
>>was born in the USA and the struggle for gay marriage continues solely
>>in the USA. The USA remains the center of gay and lesbian culture on
>>earth.
>Stonewall happened at the end of June, 1969, in New York. In
>Canada, we didn't riot, we merely decriminalized sodomy the
>year before, something that 26 or so American states have
>yet to do. Discrimination based on sexual orientation is de
>facto, if not de jure, illegal under the Human Rights Code
>of Canada and our Constitution. All but two of the provinces
>forbid discrimination based on sexual orientation and in
>Alberta, one of the hold outs, the issue is still in the
>courts. Benefits for same sex spouses, as a result of said
>anti-discrimination legislation, are available to most
>Canadians.
>What are the American gay rights breakthroughs that are
>unavailable in Canada?
Aloha John --
At risk of sounding snippy I feel constrained to
say ---
Tagging along is not really breaking through --
just off-hand is there anything comparable to the
same-gender marriage project here in Hawaii?
ward
############################################################
"Intolerance is a beautiful thing...There are people that
are politically correct that want to say the cardinal
sin of the hour is intolerance and I think that is a bunch
of junk."
--Randal Terry, Operation Rescue
Ward Stewart
"Sam Woodgeard" <us...@fairfieldi.com> wrote:
>For those over 50, they know that before 1960 there was not
>one church in the world who ever considered any such thing
>as a homosexual christian...
>A homosexual christian can be found in the same place
>with your virgin prostitutes.
Simply not so -- the Society of Friends has been
welcoming for many years now -- Likewise parts of
the Episcopalian church.
>Look at all the phamplets, sermons, and things said about
>homosexuals from 1950 back to the beginning of time.
>It seems that in the latter days, God has changed his mind?
Indeed, she has!!
John Simpson
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 09:12:12 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
<to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said unto us:
>What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
>minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
>any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
>minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
Well, Mr. Haff seems to feel that the entire nation is about to
turn Christian-conservative, and that after the next election, talk of
gay rights will magically disappear. Perhaps the two of you should
settle this issue between yourselves.
I think that the truth lies somewhere between your positions,
that, while Christians are not about to be hunted down and shot, the
world IS gradually turning away from religion and other "traditional
values."
Peace,
John Simpson
fe...@mindspring.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~feste
----------------------------------------------------
"A crowded elevator smells different to a dwarf."
Nizan
>You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
>http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
You've got to get your shit out of soc.culture.israel,otherwise some
angry reader will complain to your webmaster or bomb you in a 1GB
binary files !!!!.
Nizan
============================================
mei...@erols.com
In soc.culture.jewish on Thu, 06 Mar 1997 04:58:33 GMT
festeatmindspringdotcom (John Simpson) posted:
>On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 09:12:12 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
><to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said unto us:
>>What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
>>minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
>>any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
>>minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
I don't think there actually are , in the USA, any anti=slander laws
related to groups of any sort. People can and do say all sorts of
disgusting things some true some false about groups.
There all laws of slander and libel concerning individuals. There
used to be a principle that truth was an absolute defence to a suit
for libel (which includes slander) but a few years ago there was a
suprieme court decision that slightly lessened that. Does anybody
know what the distinction was, very important to me, please e-mail.
None of the anti-discrimination laws in the USA pertain to speech or
written material. They pertain to public accomodations, fair housing,
fair employment, hostile work place conditions (which is I guess a
limit on speech within the workplace, I don't know if that issue has
been tested in the Supremem Court yet.)
I would worry about letting any governmnet restrict our freedom any
more even if it for the sake of something good.
Shalom
mei...@erols.com also not a posek
"Purify our hearts to serve You in truth.
Taher libanu l'ovdecho b'emes. "
In most cases, posting from soc.culture.jewish
I miss many posts so please e-mail comments also
if you want to be sure that I see it.
Alan Miles
frank w elliott jr wrote:
>
> John Liesch (jwli...@unixg.ubc.ca) wrote:
> : What are the American gay rights breakthroughs that are
> : unavailable in Canada?
>
> Freedom of speech?
Like the seizures of entire book shipments to Toronto's Glad Day Book
Shop under Catharine MacKinnon's pornography act, used to justify the
supression of gay speech throughout Ontario?
Alan Miles
Quen...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Let us not forget that Quebec (Canada) was the first territory in THE
> WORLD to have full gay rights protection!!! Don't underestimate Canada.
Or ancient Greece. Morocco. Early-Middle-Age Europe. The 11th century
Vatican. Oh, and 1960's Quebec.
hla...@halling.org.com
The shipments of books are often held up, some returned, but most are
shipped through.
hla...@halling.org.com
Pardon my oversight. The oppressive 1950s and 1960s have obliterated
those other more gay times.
Christopher Wren
Ezekiel Krahlin (Chief_T...@Athenia.New) wrote:
: On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 12:32:03 -0600, Charles Lincoln
: <clin...@earthlink.com> said:
: >You have got to hear this information. (NOT FOR THE TIMID)
: >
: >http://www.logoplex.com:80/shops/sfa/files/homo.html
: I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
: Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
: very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
: point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
: atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
: database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
: then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
: I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
Perhaps I am missing the great irony present in this post, and if I am,
I apologize. However, I find this statement very disconcerting, for
several reasons.
1) We'll fight for freedom on the net . . . . as long as we like what you say.
2) Discrimination is horrible . . . unless we're doing it, then it's okay.
3) We want to waste our lives searching down the people we don't like,
rather than actually living our lives and enjoying them.
4) Have we actually managed to garner that much rage? Sometimes I forget.
In fact, I've tried to forget some of these things so I could continue
living my life with some semblance of normality. I've always believed
that rage is something that you do to yourself by getting overwhelmed
by other people's problems. That there still is rage out there makes
me wonder if we'll ever get equality . . . I've never noticed that this
kind of thing is useful in working towards a reasonable goal.
Anyway, just a few thoughts on all of this. Please don't bother creating a
flame-war for my benefit, I'll be fine.
--
******************************************************************************** If there's one thing worse than being talked about,
It's *not* being talked about. - Oscar Wilde
Eric A. Hauser, QOCE a.k.a. Maestro, Doogie, Rembrandt
********************************************************************************
John Liesch
Alan Miles <ami...@interport.net> wrote:
>frank w elliott jr wrote:
>>
>> John Liesch (jwli...@unixg.ubc.ca) wrote:
>> : What are the American gay rights breakthroughs that are
>> : unavailable in Canada?
>>
>> Freedom of speech?
>
>Like the seizures of entire book shipments to Toronto's Glad Day Book
>Shop under Catharine MacKinnon's pornography act, used to justify the
>supression of gay speech throughout Ontario?
The same did happen many times at Little Sister's in
Vancouver. After Little Sister's won the court case, the
seizures seemed to have stopped. I am a bit dismayed that
Canadian import restrictions are being equated
to a lack of freedom of speech. If anyone's freedom of
speech is being attacked by book seizures at the border,
it's the American author's and publishers. I am unfamiliar
with suppression of gay speech within the border and I may
have to grant you your point.
However, I think it a little different in terms of freedom
that I may not be able to get a publication imported to
Canada from the US when most of my friends and aquaintances
who are HIV+ are barred from ever entering the US.
Publications are stopped from entering Canada from the US.
People are stopped from entering the US from Canada (and
elsewhere).
To Ward:
>Tagging along is not really breaking through --
>just off-hand is there anything comparable to the
>same-gender marriage project here in Hawaii?
No, none of our challenges against discrimination in
marriage laws have seen the success of Hawaii.
There have been some challenges but I don't know at what
stage they are now. What's the latest news on Hawaii? When
will you be able to get a marriage licence?
How do you infer that Canadian human rights break throughs
have anything to do with the USA?
As I said, our so-called sodomy laws were changed *before*
stonewall. Spousal benefits, most particularly health
insurance coverage, happened before any of your cities or
states instituted domestic partnership registration. We have
protection under our Constitution, do you? The largest
protestant denomination in Canada has been ordaining gays
and lesbians for some time now. Has your largest protestant
denomination done the same?
Sorry, you did sound snippy and I think I responded in kind.
John Liesch
Solomon Taibi
Why is this massively cross-posted troll cross-posted to
soc.culture.jewish, of all places?
Why would a Jew care about this?
Now homosexual *Jews*, that's another matter.
--
S. Taibi
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks
into spears: Let the weak say 'I am strong'. (Joel 3:10)
Donna Maso-Furedi
In article <331E0C...@aeronet.com>, io...@aeronet.com says...
>
>Sam Woodgeard wrote:
>>
>> For those over 50, they know that before 1960 there was not
>> one church in the world who ever considered any such thing
>> as a homosexual christian...
>> A homosexual christian can be found in the same place
>> with your virgin prostitutes.
>>
>> homosexuals from 1950 back to the beginning of time.
>>
>> It seems that in the latter days, God has changed his mind?
>
>
>Christians for that last 1997 years (give or take the disputed 4 years).
>Homosexuals were just married to women because society gave them no
>other choice (or of course they became priests, in which case they LED
>the Christian communities). Get a grip on reality, open your eyes to
>what is really going on. Stop reading the bible and read some history
>and current events!
Good comment! Did you ever think that humans have been here
for over 4-6 million years? The Bible reportedly was written 500 years
after the death of Jesus. The Bible was written in a language that no
longer exists, and was translated how many times. The Dead Sea Scrolls
illustrates Mary Magdalene (who was a prostitute) as Jesus' second-hand
WOman, held in high esteem. If Jesus was around less than 2000 years ago,
what happened during the rest of history? You agree with the lives of
the Apostles. Paul and most others abandoned their wives and children
and left them penniless. Good role models for today's man!
>
>
Donna Maso-Furedi
In article <5fl5su$t...@nuhou.aloha.net>, wste...@hi.net says...
>
>"Sam Woodgeard" <us...@fairfieldi.com> wrote:
>
>>For those over 50, they know that before 1960 there was not
>>one church in the world who ever considered any such thing
>>as a homosexual christian...
>>A homosexual christian can be found in the same place
>>with your virgin prostitutes.
>
>welcoming for many years now -- Likewise parts of
>the Episcopalian church.
>
>
>>Look at all the phamplets, sermons, and things said about
>>homosexuals from 1950 back to the beginning of time.
>
>>It seems that in the latter days, God has changed his mind?
>
Donna Maso-Furedi
In article <33203512...@news.mindspring.com>, festeatmindspringdotcom says...
>
>On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 09:12:12 -0600, "Todd K. Pedlar"
><to...@numep0.phys.nwu.edu> said unto us:
>
>>What I'm asking is, if there are such anti-slander laws protecting
>>minorities such as gays, racial minorities, women & children, is there
>>any hope that there will be such laws enacted to protect the Christian
>>minority from similar persecution? I think not, in this society.
>
>turn Christian-conservative, and that after the next election, talk of
>gay rights will magically disappear. Perhaps the two of you should
>settle this issue between yourselves.
> I think that the truth lies somewhere between your positions,
>that, while Christians are not about to be hunted down and shot, the
>world IS gradually turning away from religion and other "traditional
>values."
>
>Peace,
>
>John Simpson
>fe...@mindspring.com
>http://www.mindspring.com/~feste
>----------------------------------------------------
>"A crowded elevator smells different to a dwarf."
Get out the history books! Which century or country would you
like to debate concerning the abandonment of religion and traditional
values? You might want to research this before you believe in current
events.
During the 1600s, religious persons were illiterate, most popes
were sleeping with prostitutes and persons had to BUY their way into
heaven or a good afterlife. Entire families, communities and castes
were wiped out by raids, murdering, rape and every horrible venue.
In the 1900s and up to the 1950s, about 1/2 of all brides were
pregnant when they walked down the aisle in the U.S. In the early 1900s,
1/4 to 1/2 of females worked outside the home. They were on average
19 yrs old because the life expectancy in 1900 was 40.
Read history.
geo...@interacces.net.com
Thank you for reassuring me that some Christian churches have thought
through the issue of homosexual orientation and behaviour and have not
outrightly condemned them.
The angry right-wing Christians who post to this group are truly an
arrogant lot who seem to be on an all-out Smear Campaign of homosexuals.
They take the most extreme cases of abuse or stupidity from within our
community and try to convince the public that ALL homosexuals act in
this manner. This is patently false. I am a respected member of my
church and community, and I teach elementary school. I have never acted
out like some of these extreme cases (S&M, drag, drugs) and neither have
most of my friends. It would be easy for me to take a few bad examples
from American heterosexual society and start a smear campaign against
American Decadence in another country. But that would misrepresent what
America is, as these 'Christians' misrepresent who homosexuals are.
Honesty above all.
George
James Taylor
I am sure others will flame the assumptions built into your article
more vehemently than I. I agree that the "christian right" uses
imagery that exists in the gay community [often much more openly than
it does in the straight community - e.g., drag in pride parades, or
extreme sexual practices on porno] to inflame the Ozzie and Harriet
crowd. AND, yes, you could find the very same inflammatory stuff in
the straight world [i.e., for every fistfucking gay porno you find
I'll match you with a straight one].
If your point is that there is a spectrum of behavior in the gay
world, it is well taken if badly made. However, it sounds to me, more
like ;you are suggesting that some behavior is "right" and some is
"wrong" and that you and your friends, because you don't wear wigs and
don't use chains in your bedroom, are somehow "right". WRONG.
jim
MagicMan
We can only hope you are right!
John Simpson
On 7 Mar 1997 02:45:11 GMT, dmm...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Donna
Maso-Furedi) said unto us:
> Read history.
I did. It clearly says that religion does not hold quite the
temporal power it once did. Yes, some believers are as devoted as
ever, but more and more people find that they have little time to
devote to such pursuits.
Sure, relics of the past cling to our institutions. There's
still the occasional furor over the presence of the Ten Commandments
in courtrooms, but creationism is not legislated as science anymore.
In the face of so many facts, superstition has BEGUN to be swept away.
Churches have to advertise on TV, instead of taxing us directly.
Agnostic
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." --Thomas Jefferson,
February 10, 1814
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian
religion."--George
Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796
"And it came to pass that, in the hands of the ignorant, the words of the Bible were
used to beat plowshares into swords."--Unknown, but I wish I could say I made it up
TomaHawk
Hey John,
Would you agree that some of the churches are engaged in massive
recruiting campaigns in order to maintain their membership? To Maintain
the flow of dollars into their pockets? At any hour of the day, I can
tune into some religious broadcast on my tv with the message of "Be
Saved and Send Money". And they have the gall to claim gays recruit?
TomaHawk
--
Love is contagious....We get it from each other. Ziggy
그恕嗚
>Thank you for reassuring me that some Christian churches have thought
>through the issue of homosexual orientation and behaviour and have not
>outrightly condemned them.
>The angry right-wing Christians who post to this group are truly an
>arrogant lot who seem to be on an all-out Smear Campaign of homosexuals.
>They take the most extreme cases of abuse or stupidity from within our
>community and try to convince the public that ALL homosexuals act in
>this manner. This is patently false. I am a respected member of my
>church and community, and I teach elementary school. I have never acted
>out like some of these extreme cases (S&M, drag, drugs) and neither have
>most of my friends. It would be easy for me to take a few bad examples
>from American heterosexual society and start a smear campaign against
>American Decadence in another country. But that would misrepresent what
>America is, as these 'Christians' misrepresent who homosexuals are.
>Honesty above all.
>George
Hmmmm...George, this seems to me like a case of the pot calling the kettle
black!
It seems that angry lunatic-left homosexuals are on an all-out smear
campaign of Christianity, taking the most extreme cases of abuse crooked
ministers, lunatics who murder, etc. and try to convince the public that ALL
Christians act in this manner. Seems to me that you dissaprove of a group (if
this is what they do at all) who use the very same tactics as the homosexual
agenda use on a daily basis. Then you have the nerve to sign "Honesty above
all", the pro homosexual movement is riddled with LIES, LIES, and more
LIES and have NEVER uttered a word of truth since its inception in the
late 60's...PLEASE! Spare us this whining hypocracy!
dion...@infinet.com
Agnostic (Agno...@bellsouth.net) said:
}"And it came to pass that, in the hands of the ignorant, the words of the Bible were
}used to beat plowshares into swords."--Unknown, but I wish I could say I made it up
The actual sentiment is in Joel 3:10.
--
<a href="http://www.infinet.com/~dionisio">Finger</a> for PGP public key
And the Thought of the Moment (tm) is...
No queer is dispised by all,
Thus supreme enlightenment is come to queerdom.
By having no status,
Letting go of such illusions
Is quickly made the virtue.
Having no-virtue,
Tathagata presents in splendor.
The East ridge of the mountain is ablaze in the glory of the morning sun!
-- nguyen tri duc tao, 1/26/96
Christopher Cole
> >
> > >>|I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
> > >>|Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
> > >>|very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
> > >>|point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
> > >>|atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
> > >>|database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
> > >>|then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
> > >>|I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
> > >
> >
> > I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
> > laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
> > and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
> > vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
> > them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
> > course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
> > arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
> > offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> > other minorities, and against women and children.
> >
> > I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
> > (except on request; will consider pen-pals).
> > Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
>
> Yes, I live in Canada and I love it because I am no longer 'persecuted'
> by narrow-minded Christian types just because my love is a man not a
> woman. I can sue the pants(no pun intended) off any bigot who throws
> anti-gay crap my way. And if you spread hatred against Blacks, Jews or
> any other recognizable minority you will be punished likewise.
>
> This is only civilized! Maybe you Americans live rolling around in
> hatred and discrimination but we Canadians, amongst other advanced
> nations, are against such intolerance.
As a gay man, I can sympathize with the desire to be free from
oppression. But there are right and wrong ways of doing it. Suppressing free
speech is the wrong way. Now you are suppressing the free speech of the right
wing, but if they get control, they can use that same power against you.
The harder, more time consuming, but more effective solution is
simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
Canadians think that they are so superior because their government
keeps them from having to think for themselves. I personally would prefer to
be a man in control of my own life, even if it means putting up with other
people's crap. I am persecuted but free. You are safe, but a slave.
Chris
Eric Bohlman
[soc.motss removed from followups]
Christopher Cole (chri...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: The harder, more time consuming, but more effective solution is
: simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
: that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
: neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
: someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
This, by the way, puts the kibosh on the common homophobe argument that
anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
"sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
Ward Stewart
Agnostic <Agno...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." --Thomas Jefferson,
>February 10, 1814
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian
>religion."--George
>Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796
>"And it came to pass that, in the hands of the ignorant, the words of the Bible were
>used to beat plowshares into swords."--Unknown, but I wish I could say I made it up
Aloha Aggie --
I have it as --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ward and George
40 years,
yet strangers before
the law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
erikc
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 01:00:09 -0800
TomaHawk <tqh...@ix.netcom.com>
as message <3323CD...@ix.netcom.com>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
And those commercials sound no different in tone from the commercials for such
things "get rich in real estate", "improve your relationships", "find a
relationship", etc.
Erikc -- fire...@insync.net
Atheist #2
Evolution is God's will.
To see just how extreme they can get, go to:
http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page)
http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger
/* recently updated */
Jason
> This, by the way, puts the kibosh on the common homophobe argument that
> anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
> people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
> personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
> they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
> "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
How about all those filthy, liberal mined, young heterosexuals these
days.... they enjoy a good bit of oral sex, condom use, and even sodomy...
oh the shame!
But, *sigh*, I guess they too have been victim of the evil,
family-values-destroying homosexual 'agenda'.
Personally speaking, if this God person can't learn to look beyond a
persons sex life when deciding who's "worthy", then there is little hope
for any of us. Perhaps it was a mistake giving us a sexuality in the
first place.... but, I guess some would say he's 'testing' us...
regards to all,
Jason
Yerachmiel Gersh
ination,soc.
Followup-To: alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.sex,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.motss,soc.bi,shamash.gayjews,alt.activism,soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles,alt.discri
mination,soc.
References: <3322C2...@interacces.net.com> <1722.7008...@gulf.net>
The Jewish view about fags is no different than the Christians:
The stupid jewish liberals who stand up for the fags create Anti-semitism:
Homosexuality is forbidden by the Torah as an abomination:
The 7 Noahide laws which are binding on all non-jews also forbids it:
Gay=AIDS:
Organization: SEFLIN Free-Net - Broward Distribution:
±×ßðçð (zi...@gulf.net) wrote:
: >Thank you for reassuring me that some Christian churches have thought
: >Honesty above all.
: >George
--
B'Ahavat Yisrael,
Yerachmiel L.Gersh
Regional Director
Jewish Defense League
Florida Division
b070...@bc.seflin.org
http://www.seflin.org/jdl/index.html
See The JDL International Homepage At http://www.jdl.org,Voted # 1 Jewish
Website By Judean Voice Magazine!!!!
JEWS UNITE,KAHANE WAS RIGHT!!!!
JOIN & SUPPORT JDL!!!!
the ROYster-Meister
Whoa, there, neighbor -- don't apply the same logic back at
folks. If you don't want to be condemned by overgeneralization, don't do
it yourself. Do some gays recruit? Yes; I've been subjected to it,
seen it happen. Do some churches recruit? Absolutely. Are some of
either group interested in the pursuit of power? Sure -- and you can
find those in about any human group which has ever existed.
> --
> Love is contagious....We get it from each other. Ziggy
>
And some people seem to have gotten innoculated.... ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
one of God's >peculiar< people
"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
-- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the ROYster-Meister
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Eric Bohlman wrote:
> [soc.motss removed from followups]
>
> Christopher Cole (chri...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> : The harder, more time consuming, but more effective solution is
> : simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
> : that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
> : neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
> : someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
>
> This, by the way, puts the kibosh on the common homophobe argument that
> anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
> people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
> personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
> they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
> "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
>
Then there are a small number of folks like myself who are caught
somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
any males).
Maestro
the ROYster-Meister wrote:
> Then there are a small number of folks like myself who are caught
> somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
> feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
> around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
> lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
> any males).
I am sorry that you had that experience. However, you cannot use that
instance to scrutinize a whole group of people. You need to sort out
your feelings. I mean some men rape women, but it doesn't make
heterosexuality wrong, does it? The women, as victims, will have to go
through psychotherapy...Gay != rape != molestation. I think you're
intelligent enough to see that, even though you endured such terrible
experience.
Eric Bohlman
the ROYster-Meister (wil...@PEAK.ORG) wrote:
: Then there are a small number of folks like myself who are caught
: somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
: feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
: around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
: lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
: any males).
That last parenthetical comment says it all. There's no evidence I know
of that gay men are more likely than straight men to rape another male
(date rape excepted, but that's not relevant to your circumstances).
Rape is an act of agression, not an acting-out of horniness; a rapist
rapes because he wants to humiliate and/or control his victim, *not*
because he's sexually attracted to him/her. As someone once put it, rape
is to consensual sex as hitting someone over the head with a baseball bat
is to playing baseball; the only thing they have in common is that they
use the same tool.
It is *not* prejudice to hold an individual who has harmed you responsible
for that harm. It *is* prejudice to hold *other people* responsible for
that harm simply because they share some characteristic with the people
who harmed you (and people normally do this only when people with that
characteristic are members of a low-status group. If somebody argues that
Charles Keating's S&L fraud indicates that white males as a group are
greedy and unethical, nobody takes him or her seriously. But if someone
argues that OJ Simpson's killing of his wife indicates that black males
as a group are violent, a lot of people will nod in agreement).
Samaritan
Jason wrote:
>
>
> > This, by the way, puts the kibosh on the common homophobe argument that
> > anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
> > people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
> > personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
> > they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
> > "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
>
> days.... they enjoy a good bit of oral sex, condom use, and even sodomy...
> oh the shame!
>
> But, *sigh*, I guess they too have been victim of the evil,
> family-values-destroying homosexual 'agenda'.
>
> Personally speaking, if this God person can't learn to look beyond a
> persons sex life when deciding who's "worthy", then there is little hope
> for any of us. Perhaps it was a mistake giving us a sexuality in the
> first place.... but, I guess some would say he's 'testing' us...
>
> regards to all,
> Jason
He doesn't need to test you..."for all have fallen short of the glory of
God"...but I think a few of my fellow Christians need to remember the
"all" in that scripture. Yes, homosexuality is a sin...perhaps a little
more flaunted than, say, coveting something of thy neighbor's, but every
bit as much or little a sin. Being heterosexual myself, I have never had
to deal with the things they put up with, but I can sympathize. I have
said it before, the time for burning witches and stoning gays passed by
around 2000 years ago...as Christians, we are to hate the sin (in
everyone, not just gays) and love the sinner. Gay/strait isn't the
priority...Christian/non-Christian is.
--
Samaritan********sama...@centuryinter.net
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"God's got an army, not afraid to fight
Soldiers of the Cross and children of the Light..."
-----Carman----
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Luc...@hell.com
> simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
> that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
> neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
> someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
> keeps them from having to think for themselves. I personally would prefer to
> be a man in control of my own life, even if it means putting up with other
> people's crap. I am persecuted but free. You are safe, but a slave.
> Chris
Preaching HATRED against another identifiable group of human beings is
and should be outlawed in civilized countries as it is in Canada.
Luc...@hell.com
> -- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
> one of God's >peculiar< people
>
> "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
> -- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy, could you be converted to homosexuality? No, you say! Well then
what makes you think that the sexual orientations of other people is so
fluid. Mine certainly is not malleable. Why do you Christians use this
'conversion' argument to say that gays are bad? It is not true.
orl...@xanadu.com
the ROYster-Meister wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Eric Bohlman wrote:
>
> > [soc.motss removed from followups]
> >
> > Christopher Cole (chri...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> > : simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
> > : that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
> > : neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
> > : someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
> >
> > anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
> > people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
> > personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
> > they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
> > "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
> >
> somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
> feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
> around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
> lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
> any males).
>
> -- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
> one of God's >peculiar< people
>
> "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
> -- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So following your logic, a teenage girl who was raped by a man should
distrust all heterosexuals for the rest of her. She should try to have
their human rights stripped from them. Wow! Or, I was hit by a car
when I was young so I shouldn't ever get near one again. Wow!
Mike Hammond
그恕嗚 (zi...@gulf.net) wrote:
: (George wrote)
: >The angry right-wing Christians who post to this group are truly an
: >arrogant lot who seem to be on an all-out Smear Campaign of homosexuals.
: >They take the most extreme cases of abuse or stupidity from within our
: >community and try to convince the public that ALL homosexuals act in
: >this manner. This is patently false. I am a respected member of my
: >church and community, and I teach elementary school. I have never acted
: >out like some of these extreme cases (S&M, drag, drugs) and neither have
: >most of my friends. It would be easy for me to take a few bad examples
: >from American heterosexual society and start a smear campaign against
: >American Decadence in another country. But that would misrepresent what
: >America is, as these 'Christians' misrepresent who homosexuals are.
:
: Hmmmm...George, this seems to me like a case of the pot calling the kettle
: black!
:
: It seems that angry lunatic-left homosexuals are on an all-out smear
: campaign of Christianity, taking the most extreme cases of abuse crooked
: ministers, lunatics who murder, etc. and try to convince the public that ALL
: Christians act in this manner.
And who has been claiming that "all-Christians" are the extremists you
speak of?
"the angry right-wing Christians who post to this group"
hardly designates "all-Christians".
: Seems to me that you dissaprove of a group (if
: this is what they do at all) who use the very same tactics as the homosexual
: agenda use on a daily basis. Then you have the nerve to sign "Honesty above
: all", the pro homosexual movement is riddled with LIES, LIES, and more
: LIES and have NEVER uttered a word of truth since its inception in the
: late 60's...PLEASE! Spare us this whining hypocracy!
Yes, spare us your inventing of an issue where there is none.
--
Cardinal Fang ho...@access.digex.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps?
FC 1.2 FCF~m3a/FRRs3r A++ C-/* D++ H M- P+/- R T++ W Z Sm#/Sm++ RLGP a+
cd++ d? e++ f/f+ h+ i+ p~-/* sm#
Michelle Malkin
b070...@bcfreenet.seflin.org (Yerachmiel Gersh) wrote:
>ination,soc.
>Followup-To: alt.atheism,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.sex,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.motss,soc.bi,shamash.gayjews,alt.activism,soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles,alt.discri
>mination,soc.
>References: <3322C2...@interacces.net.com> <1722.7008...@gulf.net>
>The Jewish view about fags is no different than the Christians:
>The stupid jewish liberals who stand up for the fags create Anti-semitism:
>Homosexuality is forbidden by the Torah as an abomination:
>The 7 Noahide laws which are binding on all non-jews also forbids it:
>Gay=AIDS:
No one in alt.atheism gives a damn about your brand of Jewish bigotry. There are
bigots in all religions. I'm sure that there are some atheist bigots, too. I
don't want to hear from them, either.
Michelle Malkin
>Organization: SEFLIN Free-Net - Broward Distribution:
>±×ßðçð (zi...@gulf.net) wrote:
>: >Thank you for reassuring me that some Christian churches have thought
>: >through the issue of homosexual orientation and behaviour and have not
>: >outrightly condemned them.
>: >The angry right-wing Christians who post to this group are truly an
>: >arrogant lot who seem to be on an all-out Smear Campaign of homosexuals.
>: >They take the most extreme cases of abuse or stupidity from within our
>: >community and try to convince the public that ALL homosexuals act in
>: >this manner. This is patently false. I am a respected member of my
>: >church and community, and I teach elementary school. I have never acted
>: >out like some of these extreme cases (S&M, drag, drugs) and neither have
>: >most of my friends. It would be easy for me to take a few bad examples
>: >from American heterosexual society and start a smear campaign against
>: >American Decadence in another country. But that would misrepresent what
>: >America is, as these 'Christians' misrepresent who homosexuals are.
>: >Honesty above all.
>: >George
>: Hmmmm...George, this seems to me like a case of the pot calling the kettle
>: black!
>: It seems that angry lunatic-left homosexuals are on an all-out smear
>: campaign of Christianity, taking the most extreme cases of abuse crooked
>: ministers, lunatics who murder, etc. and try to convince the public that ALL
>: Christians act in this manner. Seems to me that you dissaprove of a group (if
>: this is what they do at all) who use the very same tactics as the homosexual
>: agenda use on a daily basis. Then you have the nerve to sign "Honesty above
>: all", the pro homosexual movement is riddled with LIES, LIES, and more
>: LIES and have NEVER uttered a word of truth since its inception in the
>: late 60's...PLEASE! Spare us this whining hypocracy!
>--
>B'Ahavat Yisrael,
>Yerachmiel L.Gersh
>Regional Director
>Jewish Defense League
>Florida Division
>b070...@bc.seflin.org
>http://www.seflin.org/jdl/index.html
>See The JDL International Homepage At http://www.jdl.org,Voted # 1 Jewish
>Website By Judean Voice Magazine!!!!
> JEWS UNITE,KAHANE WAS RIGHT!!!!
>JOIN & SUPPORT JDL!!!!
*********************************************************
Christianity says to 'witness'. It does not say to annoy
possible converts to the point of making them your enemy.
--Michelle Malkin
*********************************************************
erikc
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:21:06 -0600
Samaritan <sama...@centuryinter.net>
as message <3325CC...@centuryinter.net>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
[absolutely nothing meaningful]
Come on Samaritan, tell US all why it is important to YOU that WE all give up
OUR atheistic ways. WE all anxiously await YOUR response.
I'm going to keep pestering you until you answer this.
Erikc -- fire...@insync.net
Atheist #2
Evolution is God's will.
To see the extreme depths of hypocrisy some people will descend to, visit:
http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page)
http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (really nasty)
/* recently updated */
Za...@sanity.com
>As I read the article that George wrote, I see that he didn't refer to all
>Christians, he referred to right wing Christians, very different than
>Christians. He alluded to his own role in his church and community,
>thereby invalidating your accusal of his criticism of *all* Christians.
>Furthermore, "hypocrasy" is spelled hypocrisy.
Well Tyler...I guess that depends on whether one is a hypocrat? Typo or
Spelling Flames...I love em...... :)
Tyler Greene
As I read the article that George wrote, I see that he didn't refer to all
Christians, he referred to right wing Christians, very different than
Christians. He alluded to his own role in his church and community,
thereby invalidating your accusal of his criticism of *all* Christians.
Furthermore, "hypocrasy" is spelled hypocrisy.
In article <1722.7008...@gulf.net>, 그恕嗚 <zi...@gulf.net> wrote:
Samaritan
No pestering necessary. Here I am.
I love people. I do not mean that in the perverted way people around
here generally try to portray it. I genuinely, from the heart love
PEOPLE--whether they are well off or a bum in the street. Every human
has value, from the unborn to the very old. I don't want to see anyone
suffer....particularly eternally. I will be happy to answer this at
greater lenghth if necessary, Stix, but this probably isn't the place.
My story could run for pages. Feel free to E-mail me if you want to talk
about it...the address is real.
Capt. Nemo
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 00:46:09 -0500, Agnostic <Agno...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." --Thomas Jefferson,
>February 10, 1814
>
The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies In CONGRESS,
July 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen
united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it
becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands
which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers
of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the
Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to
the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the
causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of
Happiness.
-- excerpt from The Declaration of Independence written by Thomas
Jefferson, 1776
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian
>religion."--George
>Washington, Treaty of Tripoli, 1796
>
>"And it came to pass that, in the hands of the ignorant, the words of the Bible were
>used to beat plowshares into swords."--Unknown, but I wish I could say I made it up
If a man says he is a Christian, does that really make him a
Christian? If something is done in the name of Christianity, does
that make it a Christian cause? There have been many atrocities
throughout history committed in the name of God and Christianity, but
is that proof that those who committed these atrocities were led by
God and Christian faith. I don't think so. If it was as easy as
saying what I was and it would be so, I would be on the golf course
thinking about where to spend my next million.
zoner
ination,soc.
mination,soc.
.com> <5fnupg$d...@news.fsu.edu>
Organization: GoodNet (602) 303-9500
Distribution:
Donna Maso-Furedi (dmm...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu) wrote:
: In article <331E0C...@aeronet.com>, io...@aeronet.com says...
: >
: >Sam Woodgeard wrote:
: >>
: >> For those over 50, they know that before 1960 there was not
: >> one church in the world who ever considered any such thing
: >> as a homosexual christian...
: >> A homosexual christian can be found in the same place
: >> with your virgin prostitutes.
: >>
: >> Look at all the phamplets, sermons, and things said about
: >> homosexuals from 1950 back to the beginning of time.
: >>
: >> It seems that in the latter days, God has changed his mind?
: >
: >
: >You are as backwards as they come, Sam. Homosexuals have been
: >Christians for that last 1997 years (give or take the disputed 4 years).
: >Homosexuals were just married to women because society gave them no
: >other choice (or of course they became priests, in which case they LED
: >the Christian communities). Get a grip on reality, open your eyes to
: >what is really going on. Stop reading the bible and read some history
: >and current events!
:
:
: Good comment! Did you ever think that humans have been here
: for over 4-6 million years? The Bible reportedly was written 500 years
: after the death of Jesus. The Bible was written in a language that no
: longer exists, and was translated how many times. The Dead Sea Scrolls
: illustrates Mary Magdalene (who was a prostitute) as Jesus' second-hand
: WOman, held in high esteem. If Jesus was around less than 2000 years ago,
: what happened during the rest of history? You agree with the lives of
: the Apostles. Paul and most others abandoned their wives and children
: and left them penniless. Good role models for today's man!
: >
: >
:
I don't know where you get YOUR "facts" buddy, but they are WAAAAYYY off!
The Bible written 500 years after Christ???? What a joke?
Mary Magnalene a prostitute??? A Bigger joke!
Samaritan
the morning when I wrote this and I was not yet awake.
John Lawrence Rutledge
In article <3327d838.8324982@news>,
Capt. Nemo <captne...@REMOVEgeocities.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 00:46:09 -0500, Agnostic <Agno...@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>>"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." --Thomas Jefferson,
>>February 10, 1814
>
>The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies In CONGRESS,
>July 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen
>united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it
>becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands
>which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers
>of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the
>Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to
>the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the
>causes which impel them to the separation.
>
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
>equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
>Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of
>Happiness.
> -- excerpt from The Declaration of Independence written by Thomas
>Jefferson, 1776
If Thomas Jefferson wanted to refer to Christianity exclusively, he
would have used a specific reference to Jesus and not a generic
term like Creator. Here is what he had to say about the wording of
the Virginia Bill of Religious Freedom which he drafted in 1779.
From his autobiography:
The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles
of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I
had drawn in all the latitude of reason & right. It still
met with opposition; but, with mutilations in the
preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition
proved that it's protection of opinion was meant to be
universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion
is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our
religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the
word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure
from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our
religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority,
in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the
mantle of it's protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the
Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of
every denomination.
You should know that the term "Creator" has an equivalent meaning to
Jews, Moslems, and people of many other religions. Jefferson knew
this and so did many of his contemporaries. This is why Jefferson used
"Creator" instead of "Jesus Christ" in the DoI. He was incorporating
his views on religious freedom into this official document of the
Continental Congress. His views being that non-Christians deserve
protection under the laws equal to that of Christian and that
Christianity should not be the official religion of the US. The fact
that the Congress did not change the term "Creator" to "Jesus Christ"
means that they shared Jefferson's views. Remember, just because
you, today, equate "Creator" with "Christian God" does not mean that
some man which lived two hundred years ago did the same.
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
| | "If only it were a modern document, with |
| John Lawrence Rutledge | a smart index and hyper links stretching |
| Research Assistant | all through the world data net. It was |
| Distributed Multimedia | terribly frustrating to flip back and |
| Systems Lab | forth between the pages and crude flat |
| Computer Science Department | illustrations that never even moved. Nor |
| UMass - Lowell | were there animated arrows or zoom-ins. |
| 1 University Ave. | It completely lacked a feel for sound. |
| Lowell, MA 01854 | "Most baffling of all was the problem |
| | new words... In normal text you'd only |
| (508) 934-3528 | have to touch an unfamiliar word and the |
| jrut...@cs.uml.edu | definition would pop up just below." |
| http://www.cs.uml.edu/~jrutledg | from David Brin's _Earth_ |
+---------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
us...@fairfieldi.com
You are as backwards as they come, Sam. Homosexuals have been
Christians for that last 1997 years (give or take the disputed 4 years).
Homosexuals were just married to women because society gave them no
other choice (or of course they became priests, in which case they LED
the Christian communities).
Ok class, supply your historic documents on all the homosexual
churches and christians before 1900...
and the other half of the class, you bring in all of your historic
papers and surmons where ... All homosexuals will be cast into hell
homosexuals were killed by every religion in the world, homosexuals
were driven out from the people.
A Christian is one loves, serves and obeys God/Christ
Those who mock the will of Christ while claiming to serve him are not
Christians, they are hypocrites... and according to Christ over 1/2
of all those claiming to be Christians will be rejected in the judgement
day.
Homosexuals can never be christians and any gathering of people
who accept homosexuals can never be a church of God.
They can only be syngoges of Satan and hypocrites.
THE 100
I give you this story :
* There are 100 members in your church.
* The 100 claimed to love and serve Jesus Christ.
* During a meeting Christ came and command
your members to kick out anyone caught stealing.
* A few weeks later, it was discovered that one of the
members had been caught stealing.
* None of the members wanted to kick the thief out.
* All of the members remained in this congregation which
refused to keep the words of Christ.
* All of the members continued to call themselves "Christians".
Now how many hypocrites are in this church?
I Corinthians 5:6 ... Know you not that a little leaven
leavens the whole lump? How about one rotten apple
spoils the whole barrel? 5:7 Purge out therefore the
old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are
unleaven ... 5:8-10 GET RID OF ALL OF THE HYPOCRITES !
100 Who claimed to love and serve Christ. 1 Who
rejected his will and became a thief and hypocrite. 99
Who claimed to love and serve Christ ---- while they
continued to mock his command. = 1 thief and hypocrite
+ 99 hypocrites
And yes, all hypocrites will be cast in hell with the homosexuals.
Victor Eijkhout
In article <01bc2f1a$745f7780$449fe6ce@buds> <us...@fairfieldi.com> writes:
> Homosexuals can never be christians and any gathering of people
> who accept homosexuals can never be a church of God.
Your god. I was brought up believing in one that they told
me was love. I think like that one better than yours.
> I give you this story :
And for yours there are a 100 other stories.
> 5:8-10 GET RID OF ALL OF THE HYPOCRITES !
Cool. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
> And yes, all hypocrites will be cast in hell with the homosexuals.
At least you recognise what's in store for you.
Victor.
--
405 Hilgard Ave ....................... `So I told the interviewer that it was
Department of Mathematics, UCLA ............ true that vampires are everywhere
Los Angeles CA 90024 ...................... in Los Angeles, but because of the
phone: +1 310 825 2173 / 9036 ............... muggers they're afraid to go out
http://www.math.ucla.edu/~eijkhout/ at night.' [Paul Barber]
the ROYster-Meister
On 7 Mar 1997, Donna Maso-Furedi wrote:
>
> Good comment! Did you ever think that humans have been here
> for over 4-6 million years? The Bible reportedly was written 500 years
> after the death of Jesus.
The current concensus of papyrologists, the people who study the
physical evidence of texts we have, is that at least Matthew and Mark
were definitely finished and in circulation with thirty years of the
death of Jesus, so that they were written either by eyewitnesses or by
people who could ask eyewitnesses and would have to answer to them if
they got it wrong. It is likely that the entire New Testament collection
was written by A.D. 90 at the absolute latest. The Old Testament
collection was finished over a millennium or so, hundreds of years before
the Christ was born.
> The Bible was written in a language that no
> longer exists, and was translated how many times.
This is true only in the same sense that Shakespeare was written
in a language which no longer exists. The precise language is no longer
spoken commonly, to be sure, but it has been read and studied
continuously since the time of the original writing.
As for translations, they work from the oldest and closest to the
original texts available, not from each other, so this is a specious claim.
the ROYster-Meister
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 orl...@xanadu.com wrote:
> the ROYster-Meister wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Eric Bohlman wrote:
> >
> > > [soc.motss removed from followups]
> > >
> > > Christopher Cole (chri...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> > > : The harder, more time consuming, but more effective solution is
> > > : simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
> > > : that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
> > > : neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
> > > : someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
> > >
> > > This, by the way, puts the kibosh on the common homophobe argument that
> > > anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
> > > people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
> > > personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
> > > they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
> > > "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
> > >
> > Then there are a small number of folks like myself who are caught
> > somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
> > feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
> > around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
> > lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
> > any males).
> >
>
> So following your logic, a teenage girl who was raped by a man should
> distrust all heterosexuals for the rest of her. She should try to have
> their human rights stripped from them. Wow! Or, I was hit by a car
> when I was young so I shouldn't ever get near one again. Wow!
>
It would help if you would respond to what is actually written.
I did not use the word "should". There is a big difference between
emotions and moral imperatives. If I meant "should", why would I have
gay friends, as I pointed out?
More properly, a young teenage girl raped by a man would have
good cause to feel distrust toward all males. Is that an excuse to treat
them badly? No; just as I have friends who are gay, she *should* have
friends who are male. But that does not free her from the trauma of the
rape, which just may never go away. What *should* she do? her best to
deal with the emotions which may never leave. What should her male
friends do? understand when she experiences the terror which will not
let her be near them. And with a dash of courage on both sides, she
might also get past the trauma and be free.
As for being hit by a car -- well, when I was eleven or twelve I
dove into a swimming pool, and in the next few minutes came very close to
drowning. For years I was terrified of diving, because to me diving
meant drowning. But a swim class I was teaching (average age fifteen)
one day insisted that I couldn't teach them to dive without
demonstrating. Since we'd been together long enuf to have built some
trust, I took a deep breath and explained my situation. They took a
collective deep breath, and pointed out (1) how irrational this was
(which I admitted, but that didn't help any), and (2) that I had trained
them in safety techniques for over a week, so since they were perfectly
capable of hauling me out if I did get in trouble, I should get my butt
up on the board and demonstrate how to dive properly. So I did, and did
well, and -- pulse racing and heart pounding as I fought off the old
emotion of terror -- when I climbed out of the pool I got a group hug and
congratulations. Now, I love to dive.
I leave understanding the point of that one as an exercise.
Donna Maso-Furedi
In article <332566...@hell.com>, Luc...@hell.com says...
>> simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find out
>> that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
>> neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
>> someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
>> keeps them from having to think for themselves. I personally would prefer to
>> be a man in control of my own life, even if it means putting up with other
>> people's crap. I am persecuted but free. You are safe, but a slave.
>> Chris
>
>Preaching HATRED against another identifiable group of human beings is
>and should be outlawed in civilized countries as it is in Canada.
I know we have one intelligent life form in the newsgroup!
>
>
Donna Maso-Furedi
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.970311000314.9261D-100000@kira>, wil...@PEAK.ORG says...
>
>On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Eric Bohlman wrote:
>
>> [soc.motss removed from followups]
>>
>> Christopher Cole (chri...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>> : that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
>> : neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
>> : someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
>>
>> anti-gay attitudes are the result of genuine disgust at the way gay
>> people behave. If that were the case, you'd expect that those who
>> personally knew gay people would be *more* likely to discriminate because
>> they'd have first-hand experience of the disgusting nature of the
>> "sodomites." Instead you see the exact opposite.
>>
> Then there are a small number of folks like myself who are caught
>somewhere in the middle -- both of the situation and of our own
>feelings. I have friends who are gay, but I don't always feel safe even
>around them -- I was raped by a gay man when I was young, and that left a
>lasting impression (to the extent that sometimes I don't feel safe around
>any males).
>
> -- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
> one of God's >peculiar< people
>
>
> "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
> -- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
heterosexual). I guess that's why some groups state that all males are
potential rapists. Reality is probably that there will always be some
deranged individuals shopping to violate others. Do we avoid everyone
or do we teach our children how to protect themselves from any wolf in
sheep's clothing? The wolf can be a boy scout leader, a priest, a
neighbor, a sports' jock, or someone's mother. If we avoid and fear
everyone, we will miss out on the 90% or more of life and meeting
nice people.
Za...@sanity.com
>On 7 Mar 1997, Donna Maso-Furedi wrote:
>>
>> Good comment! Did you ever think that humans have been here
>> for over 4-6 million years? The Bible reportedly was written 500 years
>> after the death of Jesus.
> The current concensus of papyrologists, the people who study the
>physical evidence of texts we have, is that at least Matthew and Mark
>were definitely finished and in circulation with thirty years of the
>death of Jesus, so that they were written either by eyewitnesses or by
>people who could ask eyewitnesses and would have to answer to them if
>they got it wrong. It is likely that the entire New Testament collection
>was written by A.D. 90 at the absolute latest. The Old Testament
>collection was finished over a millennium or so, hundreds of years before
>the Christ was born.
>> The Bible was written in a language that no
>> longer exists, and was translated how many times.
> This is true only in the same sense that Shakespeare was written
>in a language which no longer exists. The precise language is no longer
>spoken commonly, to be sure, but it has been read and studied
>continuously since the time of the original writing.
> As for translations, they work from the oldest and closest to the
>original texts available, not from each other, so this is a specious claim.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> -- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
> one of God's >peculiar< people
> "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
> -- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
Yes I just heard on the news not too long ago that scholars had carbon dated
recently found copies of the New Testament at around 60 AD...
erikc
On 12 Mar 1997 19:36:42 GMT
<us...@fairfieldi.com>
as message <01bc2f1a$745f7780$449fe6ce@buds>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
[===]
>|Ok class, supply your historic documents on all the homosexual
>|churches and christians before 1900...
>|and the other half of the class, you bring in all of your historic
>|papers and surmons where ... All homosexuals will be cast into hell
>|homosexuals were killed by every religion in the world, homosexuals
>|were driven out from the people.
No wonder they spent so much time hiding out.
>|A Christian is one loves, serves and obeys God/Christ
>|Those who mock the will of Christ while claiming to serve him are not
>|Christians, they are hypocrites... and according to Christ over 1/2
>|of all those claiming to be Christians will be rejected in the judgement
>|day.
One half -- That low a figure? I was figuring on 99+ percent.
>|Homosexuals can never be christians and any gathering of people
>|who accept homosexuals can never be a church of God.
>|They can only be syngoges of Satan and hypocrites.
You mean churches of satan and christians, don't you?
>| THE 100
>|
>|I give you this story :
>|* There are 100 members in your church.
>|* The 100 claimed to love and serve Jesus Christ.
>|* During a meeting Christ came and command
>|your members to kick out anyone caught stealing.
>|* A few weeks later, it was discovered that one of the
>|members had been caught stealing.
>|* None of the members wanted to kick the thief out.
>|* All of the members remained in this congregation which
>| refused to keep the words of Christ.
>|* All of the members continued to call themselves "Christians".
>| Now how many hypocrites are in this church?
100 if the thief stays, 99 if the thief walks out on his own.
[===]
>|100 Who claimed to love and serve Christ. 1 Who
>|rejected his will and became a thief and hypocrite. 99
>| Who claimed to love and serve Christ ---- while they
>|continued to mock his command. = 1 thief and hypocrite
>|+ 99 hypocrites
>|
>|And yes, all hypocrites will be cast in hell with the homosexuals.
And the thieves will go to heaven?
erikc
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:46:12 -0600
Samaritan <sama...@centuryinter.net>
as message <3326DD...@centuryinter.net>
-- origin: alt.atheism:
>|Samaritan wrote:
>|>
>|> I love people. I do not mean that in the perverted way people around
>|> here generally try to portray it. I genuinely, from the heart love
>|> PEOPLE--whether they are well off or a bum in the street. Every human
>|> has value, from the unborn to the very old. I don't want to see anyone
>|> suffer....particularly eternally. I will be happy to answer this at
>|> greater lenghth if necessary, Stix, but this probably isn't the place.
>|> My story could run for pages. Feel free to E-mail me if you want to talk
>|> about it...the address is real.
>|>
>|the morning when I wrote this and I was not yet awake.
[1] Why don't you post in public where we can all shar in YOUR THOUGHTS.
[2] I emphasise YOUR THOUGHTS because none of us atheists are interested in
reading bible verses.
[3] Remember that the original question was "Come on Samaritan, tell US all
why it is important to YOU that WE all give up OUR atheistic ways". Rephrased,
"What is the personal relevance to your life that we change as opposed to why
we should change"?
[4] Fair warning: Any emails from you regarding this particular topic WILL be
shared with the world. Other emails will remain private.
AL KING
I am agreeing with you about hate the sin, love the sinner, but I do
have a question for you. In my Bible, it says that homosexuality is an
abomination, it doesn't state it is a sin. I don't think that it was
directly addressed in the commandments. Could you please help me? I
don't believe that homosexuals go to hell just because they are
homosexual. If they believe in Christ, I believe they will still go to
heaven. Homosexuals don't hurt anyone but themselves. They do of coarse
have the choice to do good or evil, just as much as heterosexuals.
Please help me so that I may understand a little better. thank you
Love Yours Sister in Christ
Trish King
al....@sympatico.ca
http://www3.sympatico.ca/al.king
Samaritan
erikc wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:46:12 -0600
> Samaritan <sama...@centuryinter.net>
> as message <3326DD...@centuryinter.net>
> -- origin: alt.atheism:
> >|Samaritan wrote:
> >|>
> >|> I love people. I do not mean that in the perverted way people around
> >|> here generally try to portray it. I genuinely, from the heart love
> >|> PEOPLE--whether they are well off or a bum in the street. Every human
> >|> has value, from the unborn to the very old. I don't want to see anyone
> >|> suffer....particularly eternally. I will be happy to answer this at
> >|> greater lenghth if necessary, Stix, but this probably isn't the place.
> >|> My story could run for pages. Feel free to E-mail me if you want to talk
> >|> about it...the address is real.
> >|>
> >|And I apologize for calling you "Styx", eric. It was a little early in
> >|the morning when I wrote this and I was not yet awake.
>
> [1] Why don't you post in public where we can all shar in YOUR THOUGHTS.
> [2] I emphasise YOUR THOUGHTS because none of us atheists are interested in
> reading bible verses.
>
pretty much all you've ever done is give me crap.
[3] Remember that the original question was "Come on Samaritan, tell
US all
> why it is important to YOU that WE all give up OUR atheistic ways". Rephrased,
> "What is the personal relevance to your life that we change as opposed to why
> we should change"?
I already answered that. It is important to me that you listen because I
care very much about what happens to you. The "personnal relevance" is
that it bothers me that there might be even one person on this earth
wind up in Hell.
> [4] Fair warning: Any emails from you regarding this particular topic WILL be
> shared with the world. Other emails will remain private.
Whatever. You asked ME the question. I seriously doubt anyone but you is
even remotely interested in my private beliefs, and I only E-mail
persons who write to me first or request it (unless I hit the wrong
button on this infernal machine by mistake). Did it ever occur to you,
eric, that there might be people out here who genuinely care about
others? Your unwillingness to go to private E-mail suggests you might be
afraid to find out.
btw--I very rarely quote chapter and verse from the Bible, unless
someone asks that I research something for them. I am not really into
memorizing locations of verses, though I have read the whole thing a
couple of times.
Ward Stewart
firew...@insync.net (erikc) wrote:
Some one, NOT Erick wrote --
>>|
>>|I give you this story :
>>|* There are 100 members in your church.
>>|* The 100 claimed to love and serve Jesus Christ.
>>|* During a meeting Christ came and command
>>|your members to kick out anyone caught stealing.
>>|* A few weeks later, it was discovered that one of the
>>|members had been caught stealing.
>>|* None of the members wanted to kick the thief out.
>>|* All of the members remained in this congregation which
>>| refused to keep the words of Christ.
>>|* All of the members continued to call themselves "Christians".
>>| Now how many hypocrites are in this church?
>100 if the thief stays, 99 if the thief walks out on his own.
>[===]
>>|100 Who claimed to love and serve Christ. 1 Who
>>|rejected his will and became a thief and hypocrite. 99
>>| Who claimed to love and serve Christ ---- while they
>>|continued to mock his command. = 1 thief and hypocrite
>>|+ 99 hypocrites
>>|
In other words, those who condemn and destroy the
sinner will be saved and those who love and
forgive the sinner are to be damned.
I do believe that the majority of Christians have
come to different conclusions, more loving, more
caring, kinder and gentler. Inclusive rather than
excluding, caring rather than rejecting.
Ward
--------------------------------------------------------
"Intolerance is a beautiful thing...There are
people that are politically correct that want to
say the cardinal sin of the hour is intolerance
and I think that is a bunch of junk."
--Randal Terry, Operation Rescue
------------------------------------------------------
>>|And yes, all hypocrites will be cast in hell with the homosexuals.
>And the thieves will go to heaven?
>Erikc -- fire...@insync.net
>Atheist #2
>Evolution is God's will.
>To see the extreme depths of hypocrisy some people will descend to, visit:
>http://www.christiangallery.com/ (home page)
>http://www.christiangallery.com/sick1.html#bugger (really nasty)
>/* recently updated */
############################################################
"Intolerance is a beautiful thing...There are people that
are politically correct that want to say the cardinal
sin of the hour is intolerance and I think that is a bunch
of junk."
--Randal Terry, Operation Rescue
Ward Stewart
Za...@sanity.com wrote:
in the matter of the antiquity of the new
testanent books --
>> ---
>Yes I just heard on the news not too long ago that scholars had carbon dated
>recently found copies of the New Testament at around 60 AD...
Could this be the same carbon dating that is held
in such utter scorn by fundys when it 'utterly
fails" to demonstrate the evolutionary age of the
earth?
In that case the dating method was used on a
multimillennial scale for the dating of coal beds
and the like --
I would be surprised to hear that carbon dating
has refined its process to decades rather than
centuries.
ward
Chr...@aol.com
us...@fairfieldi.com wrote:
>
> You are as backwards as they come, Sam. Homosexuals have been
> Christians for that last 1997 years (give or take the disputed 4 years).
> Homosexuals were just married to women because society gave them no
> other choice (or of course they became priests, in which case they LED
> the Christian communities).
> ///
> churches and christians before 1900...
> and the other half of the class, you bring in all of your historic
> papers and surmons where ... All homosexuals will be cast into hell
> homosexuals were killed by every religion in the world, homosexuals
> were driven out from the people.
>
> Those who mock the will of Christ while claiming to serve him are not
> Christians, they are hypocrites... and according to Christ over 1/2
> of all those claiming to be Christians will be rejected in the judgement
> day.
> who accept homosexuals can never be a church of God.
>
> They can only be syngoges of Satan and hypocrites.
>
>
> I give you this story :
> * There are 100 members in your church.
> * The 100 claimed to love and serve Jesus Christ.
> * During a meeting Christ came and command
> your members to kick out anyone caught stealing.
> * A few weeks later, it was discovered that one of the
> members had been caught stealing.
> * None of the members wanted to kick the thief out.
> * All of the members remained in this congregation which
> refused to keep the words of Christ.
> * All of the members continued to call themselves "Christians".
> Now how many hypocrites are in this church?
>
> leavens the whole lump? How about one rotten apple
> spoils the whole barrel? 5:7 Purge out therefore the
> old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are
>
> 100 Who claimed to love and serve Christ. 1 Who
> rejected his will and became a thief and hypocrite. 99
> Who claimed to love and serve Christ ---- while they
> continued to mock his command. = 1 thief and hypocrite
> + 99 hypocrites
>
DID YOU FORGET YOUR ANTI-DEPRESSANT THIS MORNING?
carl...@forwardnet.com
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 23:13:16 GMT, firew...@insync.net (erikc) said:
>
> >>|I predict that we GayFolk will soon have our own version of the
> >>|Nuremburg Trials. As laws against homophobia spread across our land
> >>|very soon--as they have through most other democracies at this
> >>|point---homophobes will be tried and sentenced, according to their
> >>|atrocities. We will be able to track down many of these Nazis via
> >>|database searches of Usenet and the web. Search for homophobic slurs,
> >>|then narrow down the searches with other databases and legal actions.
> >>|I predict that all this will come to pass over these next three years.
> >
> >Very important question: Will we try them for attitudes or actions?
>
> I think you can figure that out for yourself. Our anti-homophobic
> laws will be modelled after those in Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Canada,
> and several other democracies that now have them in place. To
> vociferously speak of homosexuals as evil, to promote violence upon
> them, and to attack them verbally will be a criminal offense...as, of
> course, will be outright physical violence. So, yeah, some will be
> arrested and tried for attitudes, also. After all, it is a criminal
> offense to obsessively make public slurs against black people and
> other minorities, and against women and children.
>
> ----------signature:
> I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
> (except on request; will consider pen-pals).
> Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
Well, Amercian laws will eventually change, allowing ALL AMERICAN
CITIZENS the same rights and protections. But your paranoia regarding
an "anti-straight backlash" need some professional help. Is this how
low your fundamentalists have to go in trying to brainwash your
congregations against gay rights. How pathetic. Let the average church
goer weigh the evidence himself/herself without this paranoid delusional
thinking.
us...@fairfieldi.com
The harder, more time consuming, but more effective solution is
simply coming out. As people get to know gay people personally, they find
out
that we are people just like them, especially with children, siblings, and
neighbors. Studies have consistently shown that people who personally know
someone who is gay are less likely to discriminate.
I personally know several homos, since I was a kid they have tried to bend
me
over. Because I know them and what they are, I know them as part of the
filthiest perverts on earth.
"They are just people like every one else".. Jeffery Dahmer, Hitler,
Charley
Manson... they are just like every one else in the context that you use.
It is the perverted things they do that make them filth... like the man who
just got arrested here for having sex with 6 little boys.. like the 3
stings
we have had in rest rooms.. where men and boys go in to use bath rooms
and their gangs of homos in there to grab them... like the homos in south
beach fl who has 1/4th of them hiv positive.
The more homos I know the more I think the old WW2 vets have a thought.
They lived in those times and learned to hate Hitler with a passion and now
as they look at the state of this nation, they are saying if they would
have
known this, they would have wanted Hitler to win.
I know homos, I know the homo who wanted me to get in bed with him
and his wife, I know the homo in the y who tried to put his hands on me,
I know the homos who followed me in the out house in Dayton..
I know what homos are... I recommend a petiton to call for total control
of them... let the males be sent to an island and the females to another.
Let them provide the health care for themselves, let them have their way
with each other until they are a rotten pile of dead meat.
I know what homos are, they are just human beings like John Wayne
Gacy was just a human being.
TomaHawk
the ROYster-Meister wrote:
> The current concensus of papyrologists, the people who study the
> physical evidence of texts we have, is that at least Matthew and Mark
> were definitely finished and in circulation with thirty years of the
> death of Jesus, so that they were written either by eyewitnesses or by
> people who could ask eyewitnesses and would have to answer to them if
> they got it wrong. It is likely that the entire New Testament collection
> was written by A.D. 90 at the absolute latest. The Old Testament
> collection was finished over a millennium or so, hundreds of years before
> the Christ was born.
=========================================================================
For a discussion of the dating of the books of the new testament, I'd
refer you to "The Gnostic Gospels", Elaine Pagels, Vintage Books
printing of September, 1989. Many were apparently written in the second
and third centuries, ce.
=======================================================================
> > The Bible was written in a language that no
> > longer exists, and was translated how many times.
> This is true only in the same sense that Shakespeare was written
> in a language which no longer exists. The precise language is no longer
> spoken commonly, to be sure, but it has been read and studied
> continuously since the time of the original writing.
> As for translations, they work from the oldest and closest to the
> original texts available, not from each other, so this is a specious claim.
=====================================================================
Most of these works first appeared in an archaic Greek, a lost language
until it was reconstructed after the Dark Ages of Europe. This would
account for errors when translating from the Latin and from this early
Greek. In additon, there were intentional mis-translations to reflect
the wishes of the current religious and laic leaders of the time.
TomaHawk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- the ROYster-meister + wil...@Peak.org --
> one of God's >peculiar< people
>
> "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, God's peculiar people."
> -- the Apostle Peter (KJV)
>
========================================================================
Doesn't "peculiar" oft equate with "queer"?
TomaHawk
--
Love is contagious....We get it from each other. Ziggy
Avital Pilpel
> >>|* There are 100 members in your church.
> >>|* The 100 claimed to love and serve Jesus Christ.
> >>|* During a meeting Christ came and command
> >>|your members to kick out anyone caught stealing.
> >>|* A few weeks later, it was discovered that one of the
> >>|members had been caught stealing.
> >>|* None of the members wanted to kick the thief out.
> >>|* All of the members remained in this congregation which
> >>| refused to keep the words of Christ.
> >>|* All of the members continued to call themselves "Christians".
> >>| Now how many hypocrites are in this church?
>
>
> >[===]
>
> >>|rejected his will and became a thief and hypocrite. 99
> >>| Who claimed to love and serve Christ ---- while they
> >>|continued to mock his command. = 1 thief and hypocrite
> >>|+ 99 hypocrites
> >>|
>
> sinner will be saved and those who love and
> forgive the sinner are to be damned.
>
> I do believe that the majority of Christians have
> come to different conclusions, more loving, more
> caring, kinder and gentler. Inclusive rather than
> excluding, caring rather than rejecting.
>
> Ward
>
>
Bersides, how does this guy know exactly what Jesus would say tro
them??? Isn't it just as likely, judging as I am by Jesus' sayings in
the NT, that Jesus, should he appear in front of the congregation, ask
them to scrutinize the sinner, perhaps punish him in some way, but also
to forgive him?
--
Avital Pilpel.
=====================================
The majority is never right.
-Lazarus Long
=====================================
Christopher Cole
You are deliberately missing the point. There is a logical distiction
between being gay and being a child molester. As has been repeatedly posted
in this and other threads, about ninety percent of molesters, regardless of
the gender of the child victims, are heterosexual males. Pedophilia is the
proper name given to the disorder od being sexually interested in children.
Before you start throwing around names, answer this question: is Ted
Bundy representative of heterosexuals? The answer is obviously no. In the
same way, demented individuals who also happen to be gay tell us nothing
about the nature of homosexuality.
Just going by what you have written here, I suspect that you are a
self-hating, closeted gay man. You have swallowed the lie that equates
homosexuality and pedophilia, and now you are lashing out at gay people to
distract your self-hatred.
Chris
Za...@sanity.com
>Za...@sanity.com wrote:
>in the matter of the antiquity of the new
>testanent books --
>>> ---
>>Yes I just heard on the news not too long ago that scholars had carbon dated
>>recently found copies of the New Testament at around 60 AD...
>Could this be the same carbon dating that is held
>in such utter scorn by fundys when it 'utterly
>fails" to demonstrate the evolutionary age of the
>earth?
>In that case the dating method was used on a
>multimillennial scale for the dating of coal beds
>and the like --
>I would be surprised to hear that carbon dating
>has refined its process to decades rather than
>centuries.
>ward
No, actually this is the same carbon dating, which in the words of the man who
pioneered the technique.."has been shown repeatedly to be accurate only back to
2000BCE. Anything beyond this is only specualtion as accurate results have NOT
been found!
Za...@sanity.com
>the ROYster-Meister wrote:
>> The current concensus of papyrologists, the people who study the
>> physical evidence of texts we have, is that at least Matthew and Mark
>> were definitely finished and in circulation with thirty years of the
>> death of Jesus, so that they were written either by eyewitnesses or by
>> people who could ask eyewitnesses and would have to answer to them if
>> they got it wrong. It is likely that the entire New Testament collection
>> was written by A.D. 90 at the absolute latest. The Old Testament
>> collection was finished over a millennium or so, hundreds of years before
>> the Christ was born.
>=========================================================================
>For a discussion of the dating of the books of the new testament, I'd
>refer you to "The Gnostic Gospels", Elaine Pagels, Vintage Books
>printing of September, 1989. Many were apparently written in the second
>and third centuries, ce.
>=======================================================================
Perhaps you would do good to come back to reality, and realize what has been
broadcast on CNN, and every other news organization in the US as well as
newspapers just a few months back about fragments from the New Testament
having been dated around 60AD. New information, about a new find...not something
that would be found in a bood 8 years old is it?