army sexual harassment & lesbian baiting
SLDN1
Subj: army probe & lesbian baiting
Date: 97-03-28 15:14:27 EST
From: SLDN1
Anything goes to protect military men accused of sexual harassment,
including raising irrelevant lesbian charges against the woman who had the
courage to stand up for herself and report the harassment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New Army sex probe troubled Ex-roommate says she saw accuser in lesbian
encounter (Washington Times, March 28, 1997, Pg. 1)
[summary: ]
The Army's investigation into sexual harassment charges against Sgt. Major
Gene McKinney, its highest ranking enlisted man, has been clouded by an
assertion that his accuser had a lesbian
affair while in the service. A former colleague of Sgt. Maj. Brenda Hoster
signed a sworn statement about the alleged affair, which if true would
violate the military's ban against homosexual conduct and could be used to
impeach Hoster's integrity as a prosecution witness.
////////////////////////////////////////////
Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is the only national organization dedicated to assisting military personel hurt by the "Don' Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue" policy and has assisted more than 1000 servicemembers since the policy went into effect.
Know your rights: SAY NOTHING, SIGN NOTHING & SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL. Consult www.sldn.org for more information
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
big...@mailmasher.com
On 31 Mar 1997 21:13:54 GMT, sl...@aol.com (SLDN1) wrote:
>Subj: army probe & lesbian baiting
>Date: 97-03-28 15:14:27 EST
>From: SLDN1
>
>Anything goes to protect military men accused of sexual harassment,
>including raising irrelevant lesbian charges against the woman who had the
>courage to stand up for herself and report the harassment.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>New Army sex probe troubled Ex-roommate says she saw accuser in lesbian
>encounter (Washington Times, March 28, 1997, Pg. 1)
>[summary: ]
>The Army's investigation into sexual harassment charges against Sgt. Major
>Gene McKinney, its highest ranking enlisted man, has been clouded by an
>assertion that his accuser had a lesbian
>affair while in the service. A former colleague of Sgt. Maj. Brenda Hoster
>signed a sworn statement about the alleged affair, which if true would
>violate the military's ban against homosexual conduct and could be used to
>impeach Hoster's integrity as a prosecution witness.
If this true that doesn't excuse CSM Mckinney for alledgedly(sp)
molesting her.
On the other hand if this is true then her credibility is shot to
hell. She lied on enlistment or she lived a lie for a number of years
before "don't ask don't tell". With this loss of credibility comes the
inevitable arguement that maybe she had a reason for making this whole
thing up(who knows what it could be) as revenge for something.
As is is in our judicial system, it is in the military. I would rather
100 criminals go free than 1 innocent man be unjustly convicted.
"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid"
John Wayne
SLDN1
Whether or not the accusations against Hoster are true has absolutely no
bearing on whehter or not McKinney harassed her.
The problem here is that military investigators are trying to cloud the
issue. No proper investigation of sexual harassment allegations would
turn up, substantiate or report unrelated accusations against the accuser.
Unfortunately, this is not a rare phenomenon. Military women are often
accused of being lesbians when they refuse men's sexual advances or report
the harassment. They then face investigation, discharge and sometimes
even imprisonment based on the "cover up" allegations made by the
harassers and those trying to protect them.
It is wrong for military women to have to put up with harassment simply
because they know that the retaliation for standing up for themselves and
reporting improper conduct by their superios may end their careers.
bammer
SLDN1 wrote:
>
> Subj: army probe & lesbian baiting
> Date: 97-03-28 15:14:27 EST
> From: SLDN1
>
> Anything goes to protect military men accused of sexual harassment,
> including raising irrelevant lesbian charges against the woman who had the
> courage to stand up for herself and report the harassment.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> New Army sex probe troubled Ex-roommate says she saw accuser in lesbian
> encounter (Washington Times, March 28, 1997, Pg. 1)
> [summary: ]
> The Army's investigation into sexual harassment charges against Sgt. Major
> Gene McKinney, its highest ranking enlisted man, has been clouded by an
> assertion that his accuser had a lesbian
> affair while in the service. A former colleague of Sgt. Maj. Brenda Hoster
> signed a sworn statement about the alleged affair, which if true would
> violate the military's ban against homosexual conduct and could be used to
> impeach Hoster's integrity as a prosecution witness.
>
--
(Take out spammer foil ("*") to reply on email)
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment (Blackhorse) - C.W.L.# 11D30
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Big Gun
On Tue, 01 Apr 1997 11:19:20 -0800, Shawn Hicks <bali...@wizard.com>
wrote:
>big...@mailmasher.com wrote:
>>
>> On 31 Mar 1997 21:13:54 GMT, sl...@aol.com (SLDN1) wrote:
>>
>> >Subj: army probe & lesbian baiting
>> >Date: 97-03-28 15:14:27 EST
>> >From: SLDN1
>> >
>> >Anything goes to protect military men accused of sexual harassment,
>> >including raising irrelevant lesbian charges against the woman who had the
>> >courage to stand up for herself and report the harassment.
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >New Army sex probe troubled Ex-roommate says she saw accuser in lesbian
>> >encounter (Washington Times, March 28, 1997, Pg. 1)
>> >[summary: ]
>> >The Army's investigation into sexual harassment charges against Sgt. Major
>> >Gene McKinney, its highest ranking enlisted man, has been clouded by an
>> >assertion that his accuser had a lesbian
>> >affair while in the service. A former colleague of Sgt. Maj. Brenda Hoster
>> >signed a sworn statement about the alleged affair, which if true would
>> >violate the military's ban against homosexual conduct and could be used to
>> >impeach Hoster's integrity as a prosecution witness.
>
>Accusing someone of homosexuality as a defense against
>your sexual harrassment of them seems rather standard.
>You know, women who don't want to "play nice" must really
>be lesbians.
>
>> If this true that doesn't excuse CSM Mckinney for alledgedly(sp)
>> molesting her.
>
>It's a diversion and a way to get her booted out for blowing
>the whistle. All it takes is for one person to sign a
>statment saying they know a person had a "homosexual encounter"
>for that person to get kicked out. No other proof is required.
>Heck, even *that* much isn't required if you can keep it out
>of the press.
>
Despite what keeps being said in this forum if someone accuses someone
else of being gay in the military today they are in joepardy of losing
their career. Someone better have 8x10 glossies and a damn good
explanation of how he came to be in possession of them in the first
place. If he took them he's booted for persuing.
These are the cold hard facts.
On the other hand there are many gays coming out hoping to force the
system to change by taking the Govt to court. This is the main reason
we have such a high discharge rate of homosexuals these days.
>> On the other hand if this is true then her credibility is shot to
>> hell. She lied on enlistment or she lived a lie for a number of years
>> before "don't ask don't tell".
>
>I think that's a bit rough. Unless you've "lived that lie"
>yourself, you couldn't possibly understand the circumstances.
>And if, like myself, you joined thinking you were straight
>and then came out, the last thing on your mind is walking into
>your commander's office and declaring yourself unfit for duty.
>
It may be tough but a soldier is duty bound to keep his superiors
informed of all situations that might have an impact on his job
performance. Even if he doesn't think it could possibly affect his
job.
An injury or illness would be a prime example of this. A mental
illness another.
Even homosexuality.
>Kinda reminds me of McCarthy. "Are you now or have you ever
>been..."
>
We're playing with symantics here, but by DOD defination you are not
so much a homosexual as you are a person who practices homosexuality.
As far as they are concerned among the disqualifying questions would
also be one like;
"Do you now or have you ever committed a felony?"
There are many questions like this when you enlist. If you don't like
it, you don't have to join.
>> With this loss of credibility comes the
>> inevitable arguement that maybe she had a reason for making this whole
>> thing up(who knows what it could be) as revenge for something.
>
>Um, no. This comes way to close to those rape defense
>arguments that suggest the woman was "asking for it" for
>my comfort. The whole thing smells of retaliation, alright,
>but by the military.
>
>> As is is in our judicial system, it is in the military. I would rather
>> 100 criminals go free than 1 innocent man be unjustly convicted.
>
>...and your stand on whistle blowers?
It would depend on what they blew the whistle on. In the real world
sometimes the ends really do justify the means. If you want a really
prime example of highly illegal (high profile too, they got caught) US
activities that the ends justified send me an E-mail and I'll relate
it to you. I don't have room or time to post it here and I don't want
to start an arguement with many people that weren't there.
I don't disagree with you concerning the incident with the CSM and the
alledged victim.
Just to clear up a few things. She's not still in, she had already
retired a year before she brought these charges. She may be a whistle
blower but she is far beyond the reach of the military for any
purposes. As far as her being gay, it's possible, but she is still
beyond the reach of the military(I guess they could stop her
retirement pay but she ''didn't tell" so what has she done wrong?)
The bottom line on the CSM's defense is that any bit of info
assaulting her credibility MUST be used or his attorney is being
negligent. There is no PC/sacred untouchable ground in a person's
defense.
This would explain the high incidence of women accused of being
lesbians when they don't 'put out'. This is just as prevalent or more
so in the civilian sector as the military.
For what it's worth I never liked the guy and hope he gets what he
deserves.
Big Gun
On 1 Apr 1997 15:57:38 GMT, sl...@aol.com (SLDN1) wrote:
>Whether or not the accusations against Hoster are true has absolutely no
>bearing on whehter or not McKinney harassed her.
>
>The problem here is that military investigators are trying to cloud the
>issue. No proper investigation of sexual harassment allegations would
>turn up, substantiate or report unrelated accusations against the accuser.
> Unfortunately, this is not a rare phenomenon. Military women are often
>accused of being lesbians when they refuse men's sexual advances or report
>the harassment. They then face investigation, discharge and sometimes
>even imprisonment based on the "cover up" allegations made by the
>harassers and those trying to protect them.
>
>It is wrong for military women to have to put up with harassment simply
>because they know that the retaliation for standing up for themselves and
>reporting improper conduct by their superios may end their careers.
>
I would say it's not so much the investigators as it his defense
attorney and that's as it should be. His job is to deny everything and
make counter-accusations.
That is what every attorney is supposed to do. His client is entitled
to every strategy that presents itself. This happens much more so in
civilian life than the military. If OJ were in the military he'd be in
prison right now. Case in point: Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald. And in his
case the evidence was truly tampered with as admitted by the MPs. One
even stole his wallet from the crime scene.
Shawn Hicks
> On the other hand if this is true then her credibility is shot to
> hell. She lied on enlistment or she lived a lie for a number of years
> before "don't ask don't tell".
I think that's a bit rough. Unless you've "lived that lie"
yourself, you couldn't possibly understand the circumstances.
And if, like myself, you joined thinking you were straight
and then came out, the last thing on your mind is walking into
your commander's office and declaring yourself unfit for duty.
Kinda reminds me of McCarthy. "Are you now or have you ever
been..."
> With this loss of credibility comes the
> inevitable arguement that maybe she had a reason for making this whole
> thing up(who knows what it could be) as revenge for something.
Um, no. This comes way to close to those rape defense
arguments that suggest the woman was "asking for it" for
my comfort. The whole thing smells of retaliation, alright,
but by the military.
> As is is in our judicial system, it is in the military. I would rather
> 100 criminals go free than 1 innocent man be unjustly convicted.
...and your stand on whistle blowers?
> "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid"
> John Wayne
--
========================================================
Shawn Hicks bali...@wizard.com
Las Vegas, NV, USA http://www.wizard.com/~balistik/
bammer
SLDN1 wrote:
>
> Whether or not the accusations against Hoster are true has absolutely no
> bearing on whehter or not McKinney harassed her.
>
would be idiotic NOT to use it.
> The problem here is that military investigators are trying to cloud the
> issue. No proper investigation of sexual harassment allegations would
> turn up, substantiate or report unrelated accusations against the accuser.
> Unfortunately, this is not a rare phenomenon. Military women are often
> accused of being lesbians when they refuse men's sexual advances or report
> the harassment. They then face investigation, discharge and sometimes
> even imprisonment based on the "cover up" allegations made by the
> harassers and those trying to protect them.
>
> It is wrong for military women to have to put up with harassment simply
> because they know that the retaliation for standing up for themselves and
> reporting improper conduct by their superios may end their careers.
>
--
queer...@aol.com
sl...@aol.com (SLDN1) wrote:
>Whether or not the accusations against Hoster are true has absolutely no
>bearing on whehter or not McKinney harassed her.
>The problem here is that military investigators are trying to cloud the
>issue. No proper investigation of sexual harassment allegations would
>turn up, substantiate or report unrelated accusations against the accuser.
> Unfortunately, this is not a rare phenomenon. Military women are often
>accused of being lesbians when they refuse men's sexual advances or report
>the harassment. They then face investigation, discharge and sometimes
>even imprisonment based on the "cover up" allegations made by the
>harassers and those trying to protect them.
>It is wrong for military women to have to put up with harassment simply
>because they know that the retaliation for standing up for themselves and
>reporting improper conduct by their superios may end their careers.
>////////////////////////////////////////////
>Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is the only national organization dedicated to assisting military personel hurt by the "Don' Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue" policy and has assisted more than 1000 servicemembers since the policy went into effect.
>Know your rights: SAY NOTHING, SIGN NOTHING & SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL. Consult www.sldn.org for more information
>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Excuse me, but what rock have you been living under ???
You are obviously some screaming perverted homosexual member of the
American Liberal Party (currently scamming the US as the so-called
Democratic Party) who has no clue whatsoever as to what goes on in the
real world.....
********************************************
* Kill all the fucking queers....NOW ! *
********************************************
Mike
queer...@aol.com wrote:
> Excuse me, but what rock have you been living under ???
>
> You are obviously some screaming perverted homosexual member of the
> American Liberal Party (currently scamming the US as the so-called
> Democratic Party) who has no clue whatsoever as to what goes on in the
> real world.....
>
> ********************************************
> * Kill all the fucking queers....NOW ! *
> ********************************************
You are one impressive individual. So full of intelligent insight and
wisdom. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what goes on in the "real
world" that you profess to know about. Please let us know. I eagerly
await your input to this newsgroup.
And when you do, have the courage to act like a man (or woman, for
that matter) and sign your name, coward. You are a slimy chicken-shit
spam artist who lacks the moral character to even sign his or her own
name.
Michael Thompson
Roger L. Perkins
In article <19970331211...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sl...@aol.com (SLDN1) wrote:
>Subj: army probe & lesbian baiting
>Date: 97-03-28 15:14:27 EST
>From: SLDN1
>
>Anything goes to protect military men accused of sexual harassment,
>including raising irrelevant lesbian charges against the woman who had the
>courage to stand up for herself and report the harassment.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>New Army sex probe troubled Ex-roommate says she saw accuser in lesbian
>encounter (Washington Times, March 28, 1997, Pg. 1)
>[summary: ]
>The Army's investigation into sexual harassment charges against Sgt. Major
>Gene McKinney, its highest ranking enlisted man, has been clouded by an
>assertion that his accuser had a lesbian
>affair while in the service. A former colleague of Sgt. Maj. Brenda Hoster
>signed a sworn statement about the alleged affair, which if true would
>violate the military's ban against homosexual conduct and could be used to
>impeach Hoster's integrity as a prosecution witness.
>
>
>Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is the only national organization dedicated to
assisting military personel hurt by the "Don' Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue" policy and
has assisted more than 1000 servicemembers since the policy went into effect.
>
>Know your rights: SAY NOTHING, SIGN NOTHING & SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL. Consult www.sldn.org
for more information
>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
OK. So now lets make this a gender issue. Or a race issue. The "issue" is abuse of
power, period. And the question is did it take place or not? You get far more
accomplished if you leave your little pet causes on the step when you come in.
Concentrate on the real issue. Not what you want it to be.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
queer...@aol.com
Mike <mth...@teleport.com> wrote:
>queer...@aol.com wrote:
>Michael Thompson
I have no desire to get useless claptrap from heinous, sick, perverted
scum like you....please do this planet a favor and drop dead you
fucking useless piece of human debris.....
Roger L. Perkins
You sound just like those Nazis in Germany or those guys doing ethnic cleansing in Bosnia.
Not like anyone who grew up an American in a free society where the rule of law prevailed.
Do you know the way to the nearest airport? A cab can get you there and then you can go
live with all the other Nazis. Personally, I like them all in one group.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 04 Apr 1997 03:45:35 GMT, queer...@aol.com said:
>I have no desire to get useless claptrap from heinous, sick, perverted
>scum like you....please do this planet a favor and drop dead you
>fucking useless piece of human debris.....
Hey, you're such a cool, "straight" guy, I figured to invite you to a
section of my web site called "The Somalian Affair", where I addressed
our Marines in Somalia, to honor them for their mission, and to honor
one of our greatest military heroes of contemporary times: Randolph
Louis Taylor...not only decorated for his service in Vietnam, but who
also fasted for 40 days to bring recognition to our neglected Nam
Vets. R. Taylor was also a gay rights activist. Read all about it on
my cool web site.
P.S.: Oh, and such a nifty user name for your e-mail:
"queerkiller"...I am *so* impressed! Thanks for warning the whole
world as to your potential for homicide. Why not just turn yourself
in, and save us the trouble?
---
My web page kicks butt (but never licks it)!
http://www.fog.net/ekrahlin/
ejkr...@juno.com