Homosexuals have a right to be in the military
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sat, 22 Feb 1997 12:20:36 -0500, John C Minteer
<s021...@cc.ysu.edu> imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>From:der Meisterschutze
>
>
> LET THE FAGS TAKE SOME ROUNDS IN COMBAT, LET US HETEROS BE THE
> REMF'S.
>
> Thank You for your short attention span.
>
You're off your rocker, dude. Many of our best
soldiers/warriors/fighters are/were homosexual...or as I prefer to
call it by the new term: "Thracian". The classic example is
Alexander the Great, one of the greatest military strategists in
history. His great love was that with another *male* soldier.
Much of modern warfare was taken right out of the ancient Spartans.
The idea of training soldiers in buddy groups, for example. In
ancient Sparta, soldiers who were lovers and fought side by side, were
better motivated to win a battle. Our homophobic military just
dropped the "lover" aspect, but kept the "buddy" elements intact.
More frequency and sincerity of intimacy and love between men happens
during war...then is usually denied afterwards.
For a modern day example: Randolph Louis Taylor, a Marine and Vietnam
Veteran...received The Purple Heart, Oak Leaf Cluster, etc. Not only
was he a hero in war, but likewise a hero in peacetime. In 1984 he
fasted for 40 days in order to have the Vietnam Veterans represented
at the S.F. Democratic Convention. The fact that the Democratic Party
betrayed him at the last minute, does not in any way diminish this
man's heroism. Randolph also spoke up against the gov't's unnecessary
intrusions into Vietnam, right alongside Ron Kovic (author of "Born On
The Fourth Of July").
Randolph Taylor was also a Thracian (gay) Rights Activist, and spoke
up numerous times against society's homophobia...he was definitely out
of the closet. In 1985, due to mismedication from the V.A., Randolph
shot himself by The Wall in D.C....and survived. I flew out to D.C.,
to stay by his side, and fight for his life, for three honorable
weeks.
---
To reach me, remove "_Z" from my e-mail address.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:06:54 GMT, big...@mailmasher.com imparted this
delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>>You're off your rocker, dude. Many of our best
>>soldiers/warriors/fighters are/were homosexual...or as I prefer to
>>call it by the new term: "Thracian". The classic example is
>>Alexander the Great, one of the greatest military strategists in
>>history. His great love was that with another *male* soldier.
>All above are notable people I'm certain but the bottom line is that
>for every notable homosexual in military history there have been
>thousands of heterosexual examples.
Being that heteros are in the majority, of course...but you do
exaggerate. It would seem that, as in any demographic breakdown, the
ratio is more like 9 straights to every 1 gay. In a homophobic
society--which ours is--every achievement done by a homosexual is
suppressed and wiped off the history records. So when I say "many",
it doesn't take a very high number, when one is comparing it to "0"
(zero)...which is the number of significant homosexuals our
heterosexist society considers.
>Many heroic notable homosexuals
>were noted in their situations simply because they were homosexual and
>doing somehting heroic. There are thousands of heterosexuals that have
>never been honored for thier heroism because they were just a face in
>the crowd.
Often, their homosexuality is significant, in that it gives them a
different perspective of concepts like "love" and "honor"...and can
shape their strategies in war, and relations to one's fighting
buddies. As far as the heroic heteros you refer to: I salute them,
and honor them straight from the heart. You have brought up the topic
of the unsung hero and, in general, there are always far more unsung
heroes than ones who are acknowledged...some are gay, more are
straight. I love them all. It is unfortunate, however, that many
straight people who are considered heroes, are often homophobic...what
an Achille's Heel!
>The way you speak of homosxeuality throughout history gives the
>impression that it was the majority of people were gay and that is
>simply not so.
I don't know where you got that idea, big_gun. I am more concerned
about *quality* over *quantity*...but my pride for Lesbians and Gays
may seem to you like I am speaking of numbers, rather than
achievements. I perceive the Thracian ("gay") community like the
character David in "David & Goliath" fame...we shall knock over and
defeat the giant of homophobia.
>I'll concede that there have been societies throught
>history in which homosexuality wasn't made illegal and was also out in
>the open. But I'll wager that is wasn't considered socially acceptable
>and that homosexuals were generally social outcasts or at least lived
>seperate from heterosexual society much like we do in the states.(this
>is not to imply that they were FORCED to live seperately)
There were a goodly number of cultures wherein homosexuality was
considered as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality...ancient
Greece, Egypt, Rome, Crete, etc. As a matter of fact, there were
many! Since our society is still so homophobic, then of course it
would suppress any information I'd need to prove you incorrect.
However, as homophobia subsides (and it is), the truth of homosexuals
in history is revealing itself more and more in mainstream media.
Most ancient societies rejected those who were physically deformed.
Does the fact this continued for most of humanity's existence, justify
its continuation? Doesn't it speak well of some of our modern-day
cultures, that they are giving these folks a fighting chance to enjoy
equal freedom? So even if homosexuals were never considered on a par
with heteros...does this in any way prove the "rightness" of it?
I have attached a uuencoded .gif of a news article about me, when I
addressed our Marines in Somalia in 1993...giving them my full support
of their mission, as a gay rights activist and lover of a Marine. I
hope you are acquainted with decoding attached binary files...if not,
I'll help.
>"Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid"
>John Wayne
Another hero-homophobe.
Now, what follows is a message I posted to another person, that
touches upon the issue we are discussing. You might glean more of my
points by perusing it:
-----begin message------
At 08:29 PM 2/19/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey there peaches.
Peaches? I ain't your wife, stud. You cruisin' for a bruisin' or
somethin', soldier?
>By referring to Nazi Germany, I was simply reminding you that there are
>plenty of other countries and that there are plenty of examples in history
>when people were REALLY persecuted.
Aren't you the dramatic one! If you don't think our government and
society is not guilty of perpetuating crimes against humanity to its
own citizens...gays, women, children, blacks, asians, etc....then your
head is stuck in the sand. It is my duty as an American to speak up
against these evils still dominant in our culture. It is my duty to
say, "We can do better!" I choose to focus on the civil rights of
same-sex lovers, and proudly do so. The level of violence against
gays is not quite as bad as Nazi Germany at its worst (thank
God)...but is nevertheless a reign of terror still sanctioned by
society's deeply rooted homophobia...and is in danger of become like
Hitler's regime.
Do you realize that homosexuals were not included in the allies
liberation of concentration camp victims? Those who wore the pink
trianlge were sent to the *prisons* of their own nations (including
U.S.), where they were prosecuted for being homosexual. The holocaust
against Thracians has not ended, yet. Did you know one of the
greatest heroes of WWII was Alan Turing, the man who solely broke the
German submarine code...which solution was vital to winning the war?
But because he was homosexual, the British laws final caught up with
him in the early 1950's, so he was imprisoned, and died there
(possibly from suicide)...talk about a nation's betrayal! Alan Turing
is also a major figure in computer science...his Turing algorithm is
still an ideal goal towards create the intelligent maching.
I can also think of numerous western democratic societies that have,
in the last decade, performed its democratic fulfillments by taking
the next few steps forward...and have dropped their bigotry against
homosexuals, as well as resolved other serious civil issues (like
poverty, health care, woman's rights, political corruption).
Australia, New Zealand, Scandanavia, Holland, Canada. The United
States might have originally set an example to the other nations...but
it is America that needs to be put in its place this time. I am
ashamed for this nation, whose pride is more false than earned. Our
citizens have been betrayed in the worst ways.
Your addressing me as "commie" is ridiculous. First of all, it was
the communist and socialist parties in the 30s and 40s that gave us
minimum wage, social security, 40-hour work weeks, elimination of
child labor, and labor unions. Now, Russia was only communist for a
few short months...the Bolshevik Revolution...but was rapidly swamped
over by the Stalinist party. The U.S.S.R. was *never* a communist
nation...it was, however, a form of state capitalism...owning
everything, it capitalized on the citizens' labors, but returned very
little. The ideals of communism are pretty identical to the ideals of
democracy. In much the same way that Russia failed to live up to
these ideals, our own country is failing...while other democracies are
moving ahead.
Would you call someone a "traitor" or "unamerican" who spoke up
against slavery prior to the Civil War? Guess that depends on what
state you came from.
My own political stance is progressive, social democracy. My ideals
go back to the source of democracy...the Classic Greeks. The finest
civilization to ever have existed...gave us many fine ideals to seek
after, which still influence strongly, the way we think, and the goals
to which we aspire. We have much to thank for this brilliant culture
of philosophers...a society which admired homosexual images and ideas,
which were part and parcel of what made Greece so great.
As a Marine, you no doubt realize that Alexander the Great was one of
the most brilliant strategists in military history. As a Marine, you
must know that much of what inspires Marine devotion has its roots in
ancient Sparta. The idea of forming close unions with your buddies,
so you have a better motivation to win battles (to defend your
buddies) was a strategy invented by the Spartans. So much that came
from the Spartans was incorporated by the modern military...with the
exception of one: that many became lovers, and fought side by side.
Our homophobic society stole great ideas from a society that was
proudly homosexual...then denies that truth, as if it were irrelevant.
> I never made reference to
>homosexuality in my message to you. Aren't we a little defensive?!
Whatever, Tim. I just started Usenet participation...on behalf of
Thracian civil rights...and that is all I ever bring up, in one way or
another. You haven't referred to which particular message I posted,
so I simply assumed your attack was the standard one against any
Thracian male. Maybe you don't realize how much I have already
posted, in several newsgroups. I looked for your name in these
groups, but could not find you.
>The
>only thing that bothers me about you is that you have such a problem with
>this country of OURS. Yes, ours. I am a member of the Armed Forces, >and
>I fight so that you can have whatever lifestyle you wish to have.
I, too, fight for what I see to be the Good Fight...and have laid my
life on the line numerous times, already. Marines don't have a
monopoly on sacrifice and devotion, good buddy!
But you should know something else about me: The greatest love of my
life is/was a Marine and Vietnam Veteran: Randolph Louis Taylor, to
whom I owe my every breath of courage and inspiration. (And he
regards me as the finest friend he's ever known.) He fasted for 40
days, in order to get the Vietnam Vets representation at the 1984 S.F.
Democratic Convention...and was ultimately, betrayed. We met a few
months after that, and both our lives were changed. Because of his
PTSD, it was a really rocky relationship...but I am so proud to have
always stood by him through thick and thin. He'd disappear from me
for months on end...but I stayed firm with my devotion to Him, and
always waited for his return. I still do, I'm still here for him. He
has disappeared for over three years now, and I have exhausted all
avenues of trying to find him. He may have died, which I thought for
sure for a while...an obituary was published of him, which turned out
to be false, after a little research!
Anyway, he also shot himself in 1985 by the Vietnam wall in D.C., and
survived, barely. I flew out to D.C. to stand by his side, and stayed
there, until I saw he was going to recover. This was all on my own
money and time. I almost went homeless for this guy, but I'd do
anything for him. At that time, the veteran's associations wouldn't
support him (because of their homophobia), and the gay groups wouldn't
support him (because of general prejudice against Viet Vets)...so I
had no backing for my journey to D.C.
I was, yes, a draft resister, and anti-war demonstrator. But I never
believed in spitting in our soldier's faces. If a war was a
"mistake", it is not the soldiers to blame...it is the deception of
their leaders who must be called to the carpet for tormenting and
killing so many of our beautiful, wonderful men and women who were
duped into believing what they were doing was truly heroic. And so,
one great day, a brave but broken soldier fell into my arms and gave
me his soul to tend.
Well, it's a long, incredible story, and I only gave you a glimpse. I
did, however, attach a uuencoded .gif, a news article about one of my
proudest achievements on behalf of Thracian Rights...when I addressed
our Marines in Somalia with my full support, and in honor of my buddy
whom I believed had died...who is not only a hero in wartime and in
peace, but an outstanding gay rights activist. As a result of my
Somalia adventure, I received mostly incredible, supportive letters
from soldiers, sailors, and Marines on the USS Tripoli. I will always
keep them in a place of honor.
>I'll
>die so that ungrateful people, homosexuals as well as heterosexuals, can
>live their lives the way they want to. Nazi Germany...could people do
>what they wished to do there, without being persecuted? Nope.
Can Thracians thrive in this society, without being persecuted? Nope.
So I am a belwether, waking people up to the imminent danger about to
overwhelm and tear apart this nation that wants so badly to be great.
Well, the moment of greatness has arrived, and I am only too glad to
speak out and stand my ground.
>Now, do
>you get the point? The reference to commie boy just came to me. Call it
>"divine ignorant intervention." I know my history. I also know the
>future, and I shudder to think that it will be as bleak as you suggest.
Bleak? No, liberating at last. Social respect for Thracians and
Lesbians will also go a long way towards restitution for the
persecution and belittlement of blacks, women, and children, and the
poor and marginalized.
>Now, I shall get back to my homework, and you can continue to drink your
>Celestial Seasonings herbal tea. Thanks for your time.
Your use of "shall" instead of "will" indicates a man who is not quite
as macho as he portrays. Whatever...too much macho posturing is
false...*real* macho, from my point of view, is a man not afraid to be
affectionate with those who love him. Though I don't mean to come off
like the women-libber extremists who want to turn all men into eunuchs
and lead them around on a leash!
You don't know too much about me, and your judgement is too simple. I
am not particularly appreciated by the gays here in S.F....for I also
speak up against their own internalized homophobia, hard drug, sexual
and alcohol abuse, etc. This is not why I became an activist. I
speak up for the majority of Thracians who have morals, who are decent
and responsible...but the gay leaders don't speak for us, and the
sensationalizing media ignores us! The jaded gay urbanites have had
their day, now it's over...a new rise of leadership will rapidly
emerge from rural and small town America.
P.S.: What's wrong with herbal tea? As a Spartan in spirit, and
honorary Marine (and honorary member of People Opposed to Prison
Rape), I only ingest substances that keep my body "hard" and
strong...for my body is my temple. I prefer my tea mixed with green
tea...a vital tonic that everyone should drink every day. What do
*you* drink to glorify your manhood...
poontang piss?
P.P.S.: I hope you're not sacrificing any of your studies to read
this, dude. Your good grades always come first.
----------signature:
I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
(except on request; will consider pen-pals).
Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
Ezekiel Krahlin
I have attached a uuencoded .gif of a news article about me (to your
private e-mail--others may view it in alt.binaries.pictures.misc, just
search for my name "Krahlin"), when I addressed our Marines in Somalia
Harry Estes
But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
this country and deserves some respect.
Coronal
Harry Estes wrote:
> I can deal with you insulting this country and God.
How is he doing this?
> God can handle it.
> But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> because he was backdooring another guy and got aids.
As I recall, he died of lung cancer, probably brought on by smoking.
If AIDS victims can be said to have brought their death on themselves,
then so did he.
> He was a hero to this country and deserves some respect.
He was an actor who made movies that entertained many people. This
doesn't make him a "hero" any more that O.J. Simpson's NFL success
made him a hero.
Conrad Sabatier
In article <33149C...@mnsinc.com>,
Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com> writes:
[ nearly 300 lines of quoted material snipped ]
> I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
> But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> this country and deserves some respect.
I can deal with you coming around expressing your idiotic opinions, but
must you quote nearly 300 lines from previous posts in order to do so?
Idiot.
--
Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
imparted this delicious tidbit of ignorance:
>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>this country and deserves some respect.
Oh, please, I insulted neither this country nor God...only bigots
would twist my words in that manner. One is not anti-American for
pointing out a wrong...one is indeed patriotic for doing so...for he
wants to see his country do better.
John Wayne was no hero...he only *pretended* he was a hero on the
movie screens. He was an *actor*, get it? He never did any of the
things the people he portrayed were supposed to have done! To
play-act you're a hero is far from being a hero. Mr Wayne perpetuated
the artificial, macho personality...which is rigid, narrow-minded,
illiterate, and appealing only to American males whose IQ has never
exceeded that of a 12 year old from a white trash family. The same
kind of men who think being a real man is to beat his wife, smack his
children around, and of course, bash gay people. They are responsible
for most of the rapes, child sexual abuse, and physical injury and
murder (especially of women) that go on in this seriously
dysfunctional nation...and are increasing.
As far as *your* insult re. "backdooring"...well, heteros spread a lot
more disease and death around the world, for several centuries...than
AIDS ever did, or will! Just because cures came for them in our
century, does not let hets off the hook. I am talking about syphillis
and gonorhea...easy to forget what serious diseases they were, until
recently! I think heterosexuals should give us non-hets reparation
for all the lives they ruined by their unhealthy sexual habits that
caused these tremendous syphilitic plagues, devastating millions down
the centuries. Your "frontdoor" actions have spread far more misery
than any other sexual activity has ever done, anywhere....backdoor,
sidedoor, atticdoor, trapdoor, or whatever.
It is only because heterosexuals are the majority, that these dirty
ungodly truths can so easily be swept under the carpet. However,
truth has a way of finally surfacing, and revealing itself under the
light of day...regardless of who controls the world. The end of
machismo in our society is rapidly under way...and many must answer to
their crimes...just as Nazi criminals who are caught, must pay. For
remember: every jot and tittle of what anyone has ever said on the
Internet, is easily accessible to anybody. So once laws against
homophobic slurs and threats are established in the U.S. (as they are
in almost every other democracy, now)...many of you homophobes will be
sought after by the law, and will pay your due measure, depending on
the extent of your bigoted actions. It is indeed a hate crime to
persist with your homophobic slurs...as it instills ignorant people's
fears to do violence upon the innocent.
So by all means, blast away, homophobe! It will go on record for all
time. (And if you doubt my word, check just one database: DejaNews
http://www.gms.lu/search/dejanews/load.html
You can look up anything anyone has said on the Usenet, back to two
years in the past. But they plan to finally have the complete
records, all the way back to when Usenet began. And this is only
*one* growing database..their are many others in the works.)
John Sanger
In article <33149C...@mnsinc.com> tes...@mnsinc.com writes:
>
>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>this country and deserves some respect.
Your dog who does not exist can handle what?????
Just what makes you think "Duke" was an American Hero..... being an
actor does not make one a "hero"....
He was a supporter of "Joe McCarthy" and his communist witch hunt....
and when he realized what was happening he started his own film
production company, BatJack Productions, and hired many of those who
McCarthy had placed on the Hollywood Blacklist of suspected
communists... For that he deserves our respect...
But that alone does not make "Duke" an American Hero....
So explain to us what makes "Duke" an American Hero.....
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
tedd...@netcom.com
__
rst...@smart.net
Chief_T...@Athenia.New (Ezekiel Krahlin) wrote:
>-----begin message------
The Marine seems to equate his service to this nation as something to
use to command respect.
The true patriot does not demand recognition or honor...that person
has the greatest honor within his/herself. There is not medal or
order that can be conferred that can even come close to the respect
and dignity of those who offer selfless serviceto their nation. Te
greatest heroes we have are the Unknowns...their honor is manifest
before God alone and nothing any person can do can embellish or
diminsh the quiet, eternal dignity of their valiant and passionate
sacrifice. One of them could have been gay...so what. The point is
that their sacrifice benefited our nation and humanity...in its
entirety, not just those whom others may or may not find deserving.
Non nobis Domine, non nobis sed nomine Tuo da Gloriam.
Ward Stewart
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:06:54 GMT,
big...@mailmasher.com imparted this
delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>>Many heroic notable homosexuals
>>were noted in their situations simply because they were homosexual and
>>doing somehting heroic. There are thousands of heterosexuals that have
>>never been honored for thier heroism because they were just a face in
>>the crowd.
The above contention is flimsy stuff, at best!
Alexander, Shaka Zulu and Baron Von Steuben were
hardly some sort of trendy flash in the pan --
The non-sense you offer above is neither a
suggestion nor part of a dialogue - it is a simple
assertion of "fact", or what you consider to be
fact. The "facts" you assert are simply not that
but rather are vapid imaginings.
>>The way you speak of homosxeuality throughout history gives the
>>impression that it was the majority of people were gay and that is
>>simply not so.
That is just crap and if you are smart enough to
run a computer you MUST know it -- would you be so
kind as to cite someone, anyone, who suggested
that we were anything other than a minority then
as now?
>I don't know where you got that idea, big_gun. I am more concerned
>about *quality* over *quantity*...but my pride for Lesbians and Gays
>may seem to you like I am speaking of numbers, rather than
>achievements. I perceive the Thracian ("gay") community like the
>character David in "David & Goliath" fame...we shall knock over and
>defeat the giant of homophobia.
Right on!
With names like
Alexander (and Hephaeston)
Plato (and Phaedo)
Aristotle (and Hermias)
Sappho
Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
What need have we for numbers when we have members
like this!
ward
>>I'll concede that there have been societies throught
>>history in which homosexuality wasn't made illegal and was also out in
>>the open. But I'll wager that is wasn't considered socially acceptable
>>and that homosexuals were generally social outcasts or at least lived
>>seperate from heterosexual society much like we do in the states.(this
>>is not to imply that they were FORCED to live seperately)
How much would you like to "wager?"
>There were a goodly number of cultures wherein homosexuality was
>considered as normal and acceptable as heterosexuality...ancient
>Greece, Egypt, Rome, Crete, etc. As a matter of fact, there were
>many! Since our society is still so homophobic, then of course it
>would suppress any information I'd need to prove you incorrect.
>However, as homophobia subsides (and it is), the truth of homosexuals
>in history is revealing itself more and more in mainstream media.
Pre-conquest Hawaii -- a fact vigorously denied by
the missionaries and their descendants.
ward
/////////////////////////////////////////////////
"When I hear them praying extra loud, I always
go out and check the lock on the smokehouse."
Harry Truman
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 01:20:11 -0800, Michael Bakker <mic...@xs4all.nl>
imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>> > >>You're off your rocker, dude. Many of our best
>> > >>soldiers/warriors/fighters are/were homosexual...or as I prefer to
>> > >>call it by the new term: "Thracian". The classic example is
>> > >>Alexander the Great, one of the greatest military strategists in
>> > >>history. His great love was that with another *male* soldier.
>You might want to join the public discussion on The Marine Message
>Center at
>http://www.tkusa.com/usmc81/msgcenter/msgcenter.html
Thanks, Michael, I'll do that. But before I do: Have you found this
site to be less homophobic than one might expect, these days? Either
way, I'll be glad to learn and participate.
Kenneth Chisholm
>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>this country and deserves some respect.
Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
They booed him out of the room.
To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
John De Salvio
> I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
> But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> this country and deserves some respect.
So he's dead. Everybody else who isn't alive anymore is dead.
Billions of people are dead.
By the way, John Wayne died of a disease brought on purely by
his own behavior. He smoked himself to death.
By the way #2, what was he heroic at? Making movies
where almost all the characters acted like John Wayne?
Did he win any military battles? Maybe a Purple Heart?
łNoow lisssn nup, sidewinder... there's not enough room
on this here good earth ta.... cowtow ta da likes uh you...
Nowww I'm just gonna .... ferget that you said whut I think
you said and let.... bygones be .... well, bygones...."
--
John
NOTE: "From" address is deliberately wrong.
My correct e-mail address is:
Harry Estes
>
> >I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> >this country and deserves some respect.
>
> I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
> (except on request; will consider pen-pals).
> Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
You might want to ask his children about that. They all said that he was
a great father. Some of the soldiers he visited in Nam
sure thought he was a hero. These little glorified sissies that they
have in Hollywood would`nt think of visiting our military personnel.
They have to be politically correct. Don`t they? But that is another
topic for discussion.
Michael Bakker
Harry Estes wrote:
>
> Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:06:54 GMT, big...@mailmasher.com imparted this
> > delicious tidbit of wisdom:
> >
> > >>You're off your rocker, dude. Many of our best
> > >>soldiers/warriors/fighters are/were homosexual...or as I prefer to
> > >>call it by the new term: "Thracian". The classic example is
> > >>Alexander the Great, one of the greatest military strategists in
> > >>history. His great love was that with another *male* soldier.
> >
Center
at
http://www.tkusa.com/usmc81/msgcenter/msgcenter.html
> > As a Marine, you no doubt realize that Alexander the Great was one of
> > the most brilliant strategists in military history. As a Marine, you
> > must know that much of what inspires Marine devotion has its roots in
> > ancient Sparta.
You are very right!!!!!!!
Michael Bakker
I invite you to join the public discussion "Message not welcome" at the
forum of the Marine Message Center:
http://www.tkusa.com/usmc81/msgcenter/msgcenter.html
and support the few gay marines overthere.
a jedi craves not these things
In article <33283b4d...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, <joh...@netcom.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:12:28 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
>scribed:
>>With names like
>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>> Sappho
>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>
>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>like this!
>>
>>ward
>
<various insulting bullshit snipped>.
alexander the great was indeed married, but barely knew his wife, and was
much closer, both geographically and emotionally, to his male lover.
plato's relationship with phaedo is quite clear from his writings--at the
time, it was considered normative, even optimal, for a man to have a male
lover (see john boswell's excellent chapter on this in _christianity,
social tolerance, and homosexuality_).
as for sappho's lesbianism, just read her poetry. ditto for many of
shakespeare's sonnets.
rachel
--
-------------------------- rwes...@sophia.smith.edu -------------------------
"Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter." -- Yoda
----------------------- http://www.smith.edu/~rwestmor -----------------------
Ezekiel Krahlin
>Alexander, Shaka Zulu and Baron Von Steuben were
>hardly some sort of trendy flash in the pan --
Shaka Zulu too? Hey, great! Thanks for the excellent references,
Ward. They will help many of us who want to build our database in our
defense.
John Sanger
In article <33283b4d...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> joh...@netcom.com writes:
>On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:12:28 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
>
>
>>With names like
>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>> Sappho
>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>
>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>like this!
>>
>>ward
>
>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
>
>pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! There is not one small shred of hard
>evidence to support your lie. It's only been within the last ten years
>or so homo's have been trying to hang there filthy life style on the
>DEAD! Did historians all of a sudden discover a hidden hoard of
>information on Queers through the Centuries...I think not. You simply
>found a lie that you thought no one would question...you're wrong
>queerboy...you're wrong!
>
>You live lies...you tell lies...your existence is less honorable than a
>lie.
You are such an ignorant person that it is not even worthwhile pointing
out the Alexander himself said he had a male lover.....
And Sappho was most definitely a lesbian.....
clueless is as clueless does!
john_t2==clueless==ignoramus==LIAR
John Sanger
In article <33161C...@mnsinc.com> tes...@mnsinc.com writes:
>Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
>>
>> >I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>> >this country and deserves some respect.
>>
>> I prefer public dialogue...no personal replies, please
>> (except on request; will consider pen-pals).
>> Private, hostile comments will be re-posted in public.
>You might want to ask his children about that. They all said that he was
>a great father. Some of the soldiers he visited in Nam
>sure thought he was a hero. These little glorified sissies that they
>have in Hollywood would`nt think of visiting our military personnel.
>They have to be politically correct. Don`t they? But that is another
>topic for discussion.
You obviously have not read what the 1st wife had to say about "Duke"...
But then we can not expect anything better from the likes of you.....
You are after all "DUH STUPID"!!!
clueless is as clueless does!
testes==clueless==ignoramus
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:55:40 GMT, kchi...@MNSI.net (Kenneth Chisholm)
imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>>this country and deserves some respect.
>
>Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
>a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
>walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
>
>They booed him out of the room.
>
>To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
>and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
Whew, good point! Thanks for stepping in here, over this goon John
Wayne.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:12:05 GMT, ston...@netcom.com imparted this
delicious tidbit of untruth:
>Ezekiel Krahlin's homosexual babbling is marginally interesting but
>significantly far from the truth...and after all, truth is what's
>important.
Indeed, truth *is* what's important, that's why I'm here, to set right
what is wrong. That's why I am armed with every possible reference to
refute any lies you toss my way. You are nothing but hot air...not a
single quote or reference from any respectable source, to give import
to anything you said. How easy you make my victory! I'd rather enjoy
some scuffle before I walk away with the trophy.
You see, my buddy who is a Marine and Vietnam Veteran, taught me a
thing or two about being a warrior. I am a soldier too, and a damn
good one...but not in any military circle you would recognize, or be
welcome in.
>His desire to cast a blanket of undeserved honor over a
>abominable behavior that is detested by a vast majority of world's
>people is foolish.
Undeserved, eh? Any soldier who fights bravely, both in war, and in
peacetime--as my good buddy Randolph Taylor has--deserves only the
hightest commendations. The fact of his also being 100% homosexual
only contributes to the dignity of all Lesbians and Thracians. You
can't change those facts about him. He is a hero both to the
military, and to gay folk...and I am dedicated to his memory, and will
see to it that he is not forgotten, and shall be placed in honorable
inclusion in our history books, both Thracian and mainstream. I have
numerous news articles about him, which I will soon release in .gif
format, via Usenet. This is just the beginning.
The aboiminable behavior you refer to, grunt, is what I call "back
alley sex"...the underbelly of both straight and gay people. I could
just as easily condemn *all* heteros for the minority of straights who
perform anal intercourse, fist fuck, beat their women for sexual
"thrills," shoot up drugs, etc. The majority of homosexuals have
rather ordinary sex...and what thrills come out of it, have to do with
the emotional fondness they share with their partners.
Randolph is but one of many heroic people in the military who loved
another of the same sex. He makes you and your heterosexist ilk look
like dirt.
>One need only consider the ravages of AIDS, a horrible disease which
>homosexuals have been responsible for spreading throughout the world.
Blatant lie, once more. Worldwide, AIDS is spread mainly through
heterosexual intercourse. The majority of gay people do not have
AIDS, nor will they ever contract it...for they are, by and large,
normal and conservative about their sexual activity, and prefer one
partner. AIDS is every bit a heterosexual disease, as much (if not
more so) than a homosexual disease.
And signs point to its spreading more and more among heteros, because
in general, they are homophobic, and have disregarded the importance
of stopping a potential plague in its tracks...so soon the price will
be paid with more lives, straight lives. By spitting on a minority
group for a scapegoat, heterosexist majority dragged its feet in
coming up with a cure, thinking, "Oh, it's not *our* problem, it's
God's punishment to fags."
Well, grunt, just wait to see what God has in store for you!
The fact that AIDS managed to focus on homosexuals first, in our
nation...implies that homosexuality indeed is a genetic (God-given)
trait. This also implies that AIDS can mutate and focus on the
*hetero* gene, somewhere down the line.
You conveniently ignore the horrible plagues of syphillis that
travelled the globe numerous times over many centuries...putting
millions of lives in abject misery and death. This was a
*heterosexual* plague far greater than AIDS will ever become. Nor did
heteros change their habits out of concern for anyone...they got lucky
because of medical science. And shall I also bring up the other
hetero plague, gonorrhea? It is only this century that medicine has
come up with effective treatment, to finally end these scourges.
Maybe I should demand reparation for non-heteros (and for caring
heteros), for all the incredible terror and death heterosexist peoples
have created by some of the worst plagues in history, spawned by their
sexually extreme, unhealthy, unethical and unnatural behavior. This
includes reparation for the stillborn babes who dropped from the
syphillitic wombs of diseased women.
>What other group of people in known civilizations have been responsible
>for the death of so many people simply because they refused to cease
>practicing a behavior known to transmit a fatal disease?
You guys and gals, of course: heterosexuals...see above. If you push
it, I'll crack the books and give you more details of the plagues,
their times, and the kinds of decimation. You asked for it! (Well,
no you didn't, but you just don't know who you're up against.)
>Ezekiel Krahlin's advocacy of homosexuals in the military is rediculous
>as jousting with windmills...the present condition of permissiveness
>exist only because of the ill-founded desire of the ultra-liberal left
>to fulfill their dream of a kinder, gentler, (and immoral society.)
What you call "permissive" is actually plain old "sanity", a commodity
which seems to be scarce in these parts. Our great democracies around
the world have, for the most part, dropped their homophobic attitudes,
both in civilian and military life. I don't see this unshackling of
homophobia to have done any harm to these cultures. As a matter of
fact, they are thriving and moving ahead as demcracies, while we still
fumble and wallow in unresolved homophobia, racism, sexism, etc.
>------------------------------------------------------------
>"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
>
> -Hume
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is won all at once."
-Krahlin
Ward Stewart
joh...@netcom.com wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:12:28 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
>scribed:
>>With names like
>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>> Sappho
>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>
>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>like this!
>>
>>ward
>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
>You know as well as I that your claim that these people where queer is
>pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! There is not one small shred of hard
>evidence to support your lie. It's only been within the last ten years
>or so homo's have been trying to hang there filthy life style on the
>DEAD! Did historians all of a sudden discover a hidden hoard of
>information on Queers through the Centuries...I think not. You simply
>found a lie that you thought no one would question...you're wrong
>queerboy...you're wrong!
>You live lies...you tell lies...your existence is less honorable than a
>lie.
ON THE CONTRARY, we are dealing here with truth,
simple clear truth and it has driven the
homophobes and hate-mongers right around the
corner. They have confused their sub-literate
status with truth; to the vast detriment of the
intellectual life of the United States.
If they can close down a few more libraries and
burn a few more books perhaps their "truth" will
flourish -- then again, perhaps not.
Of Alexander, Aristotle, Plato and Sappho there is
proof which has been found acceptible for
centuries -- of Shakespeare there is debate and
doubt but I have found the sonnets to be an
absolute revelation of same-gender love. You
might try reading a few of them.
ward
just for instance -- number 24
When, in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state
And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries
And look upon myself and curse my fate,
Wishing me like to one more rich in hope,
Featured like him, like him with friends
possess'd,
Desiring this man's art and that man's scope,
With what I most enjoy contented least;
Yet in these thoughts myself almost despising,
Haply I think on thee, and then my state,
Like to the lark at break of day arising
From sullen earth, sings hymns at heaven's gate;
For thy sweet love remember'd such wealth brings
That then I scorn to change my state with kings.
---------------------------------------------------
"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one
of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly
pursuit of happiness by free men. Marriage is one of
the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our
very existance and survival. To deny this fundamental
freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial
classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications
so directly subversive of the principles of equality at
the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to
deprive all the state's citizens of liberty without
due process of law,
SCOTUS in Loving v. Virginia
------------------------------------------------------
Ward Stewart
rwes...@sophia.smith.edu (a jedi craves not these
things) wrote:
>In article <33283b4d...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, <joh...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:12:28 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
>>scribed:
>>>With names like
>>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>>> Sappho
>>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>>
>>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>>like this!
>>>
>>>ward
>>
>>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
><various insulting bullshit snipped>.
>alexander the great was indeed married, but barely knew his wife, and was
>much closer, both geographically and emotionally, to his male lover.
>plato's relationship with phaedo is quite clear from his writings--at the
>time, it was considered normative, even optimal, for a man to have a male
>lover (see john boswell's excellent chapter on this in _christianity,
>social tolerance, and homosexuality_).
>as for sappho's lesbianism, just read her poetry. ditto for many of
>shakespeare's sonnets.
>rachel
Aloha Rachel ---
Thank you
I thought that you might enjoy these two snippets
of signature I use --
The business about love is moving clear across
history and the snip about some 'future time" is
eerie for, here we are.
"Love, like a mountain-wind upon an oak,
Falling upon me, shakes me leaf and bough."
Sappho of Lesbos
"You may forget but
Let me tell you this:
Someone in some future time
will think of us."
Sappho
>--
>-------------------------- rwes...@sophia.smith.edu -------------------------
> "Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter." -- Yoda
>----------------------- http://www.smith.edu/~rwestmor -----------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Mange Grrrl
: >With names like
: > Alexander (and Hephaeston)
: > Plato (and Phaedo)
: > Aristotle (and Hermias)
: > Sappho
: > Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
: >
: >What need have we for numbers when we have members
: >like this!
: >
: >ward
: NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
is this person really trying to say that sappho was not a lesbian?? i
don't know for sure about the others, but, come on, sappho the source of
the word "lesbian". geezzz.
**********************************************************************
Mange Grrrl
ejo...@gl.umbc.edu
"that kind of god is always man-made
they made him up then wrote a book to keep you on your knees"
- Skunk Anansie, "Selling Jesus"
**********************************************************************
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 01:44:16 -0800, Michael Bakker <mic...@xs4all.nl>
said:
Hey, Michael, thanks for alerting us to this resource. Unfortunately,
I did a search of "message not welcome" on that site, and came up with
zilch. If you have any more suggestions on how to hook into the
Marine Message Center...please let us know. Meanwhile, I will scan
the site, and find my own way in.
Do you think the up-front gay soldiers are being censored?
Harry Estes
Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> >this country and deserves some respect.
>
> a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
> walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
>
> They booed him out of the room.
>
> To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
> and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
Harry Estes
Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> >this country and deserves some respect.
>
> a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
> walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
>
> They booed him out of the room.
>
> To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
> and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
wounded and recieved a purple heart. He was in a hospital for months
and he never once complained. He said it was an honor to serve his
country. He was a true patriot. He always said that we could have won in
Vietnam if it had`nt been for a bunch of little sissies who were too
cowardly to serve their country and instead bravely protested at home
and abroad. (billy clinton) small letters intended!!!!
Nicholas Freiburger
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Charlie Andrews
Kchi...@mnsi.net, said:
K(>On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
K(>wrote:
K(>
K(>>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
K(>>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
K(>>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
K(>>this country and deserves some respect.
K(>
K(>Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
K(>a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
K(>walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
K(>
K(>They booed him out of the room.
K(>
K(>To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
K(>and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
K(>
Would you be kind enough to document the above statement? I
am of the opinion that it is a product of your overactive
imagination. Perhaps it is a urban legend, within the gay
community.
If there is any fact to this "incident" please document it.
I happened to be at Ft. Benning, GA, in 1967 while John
Wayne was filming "The Green Berets," and I can assure you
that he had the respect and admiration, of every soldier
on that base.
Martha Raye is another entertainer that comes to mind, when
speaking of the esteem that some of them were held by the
troops. She was made an honorary Col. in the Army Special
Forces. Not because she wiped out a nest of VC, but because
she cared about and supported the troops, as did John Wayne,
above and beyond anything that was expected or demanded of
her.
There are many people that contribute to the welfare and
morale of the armed forces, and all are appreciated.
Noticeably absent from the list are whiners and fingerpointers.
Charlie
Volunteer Parachute Tester
/\ WAR LIBRARY CANADA
_/\| |/\_ BIBLIOTHEQUE CANADIENNE DE GUERRE
\ =F4=BF=F4 / FAC UT GAUDEAM
>______< charlie...@commobunker.com
/ CWL# 7 1/8 ???, SFA(M-6497-L)
2ndMDA# 3719-L, 1st SFR(Airborne)
TelNet to: commobunker.com
The Commo Bunker (919) 257-5551 33,600 baud v34/v-fc All lines
___
* UniQWK #2504* This message was made entirely of recycled electrons.
Lawrence P. Kuscin
In <33390fe5....@nntp.ix.netcom.com> joh...@netcom.com writes:
>
>On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:39:38 GMT, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger)
>scribed:
>
>
>>>>With names like
>>>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>>>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>>>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>>>> Sappho
>>>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>>>
>>>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>>>like this!
>>>>
>>>>ward
>
>
>>>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
>>>
is
>>>pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! There is not one small shred of hard
>>>evidence to support your lie. It's only been within the last ten
years
>>>or so homo's have been trying to hang there filthy life style on the
>>>DEAD! Did historians all of a sudden discover a hidden hoard of
>>>information on Queers through the Centuries...I think not. You
simply
>>>found a lie that you thought no one would question...you're wrong
>>>queerboy...you're wrong!
>>>
>>>You live lies...you tell lies...your existence is less honorable
than a
>>>lie.
>>
pointing
>>out the Alexander himself said he had a male lover.....
>>
>>And Sappho was most definitely a lesbian.....
>
>
>
history
>were queer...Yeah, right!
>
>Any one can easily see your lie, but you attempt to support your
>delusionist homo-fantasy with nothing other than "your word". Holy
>Shit! Some of us may have been born at night, but not LAST NIGHT! We
>know that if your fingers are on the keyboard...you've lied.
>
>Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut
up!
>
>John T.
SURE.......... gays just started to be made 10 years ago, or was
it 1969, after stonewall. Must have been.
No WAY, have men sucked the dicks of other men. That would be bad.
NO way, have men FUCKED each other. Why, that would be bad.
On ships of OLD, Captains had CABIN BOYS, to fix their bed and make
things nice about the ship for those MONTHS at sea. The FACT that a
Captain had a BOY sleeping in the SAME ROOM, means nothing. Just
think what WOULD have happened if one of those sailors did anything
to the ships Captain's cabin boy. Hehehehe. Off with his FUCKIN
head. One thing you did not do, is mess with the "Cabin Boy." Why?
Oh, have you ever seen pictures of those "cabin boys?"
Let's see ABOUT 700 TO 1000 gays get KICKED OUT of the military
per year NOW. And if YOU CAN READ, stop by a gay bookstore, and
there are LOTS of books by real, honest to GOD gay people that
met in the MILITARY and have lived together ever since.
BUT THE FUCKING STRAIGHT WORLD, does not want to READ the TRUTH.
Just like Jerry FUCKING Fairywell. The MAN that wrote a number of books
for him, after many years, told that fucking jerk-off Fairywell, the
he was gay and lived with a MAN for over 9 years. When asked about
this person, Jerry Fairywell said "I do not know him anymore, I do NOT
want to hear his story. He is NOT going to change my mind."
FUCK JERRY FAIRYWELL and the CATHOLIC POPE and the REST of you hating
mother fuckers. YOUR hate has just caused a lesbian and gay bar to be
bombed. YES, you fuckers are of full of hate and do not want the
TRUTH. Just like YOUR KIND killed Jesus Chirst because he was telling
about minding your OWN FUCKING BUSINESS, and to LOVE everyone, you
KILLED HIM. You would KILL him today as well.
=======================================================================
Lawrence P. Kuscin
There are THOSE that attack me for LOVING a MAN.
SHAME on them. For LOVE comes from GOD.
For LOVE comes from GOD.
For LOVE comes from GOD.
I pray that before you MUST see GOD yourself, you find the TRUTH.
Then your words shall change.
You will be RESPONSIBLE for saying ---------
>>
>>Well, then you'll just have to sit and fume, because my post will
>>still be read by anyone who cares to read. Did you think for one
>>moment that I expected to be welcome with open arms, here? No, I
>>willfully jumped in, rolled up my sleeves, and am going to my work,
>>like the brave soldier I am.
>>
Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE.
=====================================================================
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My goal in life is to be and help everyone be:
"Happy, healthy, loving and productive."
Lawrence P. Kuscin Sr.
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1297
lpku...@ix.netcom.com
KEEP LOVING .. SAFE SEX ONLY .. IT'S GREAT TO BE GAY!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
THE GOOD NEWS!
==============
I just read in the Daily Paper that we are WINNING the war on AIDS.
I said it was just a matter of time in 1989 in the Philadelphia Gay
News, and in my writings "It's OKAY to be Gay." The drop reported
"AIDS deaths show decline across nation." The range was a high of 16
percent in the West, to 15 percent in the Northeast and 11 percent in
the Midwest and 8 percent in the South.
The PREACHER will soon have to drop the BULLSHIT line, that AIDS is
GODS way of weeding His garden. Such hate! Their very words tell
what is in their HEART. If you read the Bible, you find that Jesus
Christ had LOVE in his heart. If you LOVE a man or woman, makes
little difference. I know, I have LOVED both. And I'm ready to
go before MY God, are YOU?
Roy G. Callahan
It's strange that you use the bible as a reference. I am not a biblical
scholar but I recall the bible says something about ADAM AND EVE, not
ADAM AND STEVE.
Roy G. Callahan
Harry Estes wrote:
>
> Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
AMEN. Right on track
> >
> > Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
> > a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
> > walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
> >
> > They booed him out of the room.
> >
> > To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
> > and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
> Dates and another source besides yourself please.
Why don't you provide them. You seem to know a lot about it.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:28:06 GMT, joh...@netcom.com said:
>A queer would find no advantage in saying that famous persons in history
>were queer...Yeah, right!
>
>Any one can easily see your lie, but you attempt to support your
>delusionist homo-fantasy with nothing other than "your word". Holy
>Shit! Some of us may have been born at night, but not LAST NIGHT! We
>know that if your fingers are on the keyboard...you've lied.
>
>Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut up!
>
>John T.
--------------------------
The Sacred Band of Thebes
This band of men of noble blood, 300 in number, who had exchanged an
oath of love and friendship, was formed by Gorgidas...The sacred band
proved itself brilliantly in the battle of Mantinea, in which
Epaminondas fell with Cephisodorus, and the traditions of the gallant
band maintained themselves until the defeat at Cheronea, in which the
flower of Greek freedom was broken. When the victor, Kind Philip of
Macedon, surveyed the field of battle and saw that all the bodies of
the 300 had fatal wounds in their breasts, he could not suppress his
tears and said: "woe to them who think evil of such men". [Licht 296;
Plutarch, Pelopidas 18 ].
There were then in ancient Greece public same-sex relationships,
formalized by public ceremonial, and intended to be of long duration.
In some cases the "kin" relationship created was recognised. What such
relationships do not seem to have involve were property rights and
transactions, a major aspect of heterosexual marriages.
Quoted from:
Lesbian and Gay Marriage through History and Culture
by Paul Halsall, Ver.2.1 June 1, 1996
http://www.bway.net/~halsall/lgbh/lgbh-marriage.html
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 01:56:43 GMT, joh...@netcom.com said:
>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
>
>You know as well as I that your claim that these people where queer is
>pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! There is not one small shred of hard
>evidence to support your lie. It's only been within the last ten years
>or so homo's have been trying to hang there filthy life style on the
>DEAD! Did historians all of a sudden discover a hidden hoard of
>information on Queers through the Centuries...I think not.
^^^^^^^^
Oh, but I think so. That's exactly what's going on. Our immoral,
heterosexist breeder society has attempted to wipe out any evidence of
homosexual achievements throughout history. So we Lesbians,
Thracians, and sympathizers, have had to work very hard to find the
truths over the painful decades, and bring them into the light of
day...in your face, grunt!
You just are freaking out over the changes in western societies, that
are finally coming to their senses, and treating homosexuals as equal
and honorable members of the human family. Your kind are soon to be
called to the carpet...and shot or put under lock and key
forever...the Nuremberg Trial for homophiles. You can run, but you
can't hide, homophobe!
>You simply
>found a lie that you thought no one would question...you're wrong
>queerboy...you're wrong!
"Simply?" Not so, simpleton. All the facts are piling in...truth
cannot be denied, in the long run. If you can't take the heat, then
you'd better get out of the kitchen. The new America will be a more
honest America, dropping the shackles of homophobia, for once and for
all...just as most of all the other western democracies have done.
My final statement to you, oh grunt of Satan: America, love it or
leave it!
-------------------------------
Ezekiel Krahlin
On 28 Feb 1997 20:10:47 GMT, ejo...@umbc.edu (Mange Grrrl) said:
>is this person really trying to say that sappho was not a lesbian?? i
>don't know for sure about the others, but, come on, sappho the source of
>the word "lesbian". geezzz.
Mange Grrrl, you will enjoy this web page:
Lesbian and Gay Marriage through History and Culture
by Paul Halsall, Ver.2.1 June 1, 1996
http://www.bway.net/~halsall/lgbh/lgbh-marriage.html
Here is an excerpt:
---------------------------
The Sacred Band of Thebes
This band of men of noble blood, 300 in number, who had exchanged an
oath of love and friendship, was formed by Gorgidas...The sacred band
proved itself brilliantly in the battle of Mantinea, in which
Epaminondas fell with Cephisodorus, and the traditions of the gallant
band maintained themselves until the defeat at Cheronea, in which the
flower of Greek freedom was broken. When the victor, Kind Philip of
Macedon, surveyed the field of battle and saw that all the bodies of
the 300 had fatal wounds in their breasts, he could not suppress his
tears and said: "woe to them who think evil of such men". [Licht 296;
Plutarch, Pelopidas 18 ].
There were then in ancient Greece public same-sex relationships,
formalized by public ceremonial, and intended to be of long duration.
In some cases the "kin" relationship created was recognised. What such
relationships do not seem to have involve were property rights and
transactions, a major aspect of heterosexual marriages.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 19:17:57 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart) said:
>ON THE CONTRARY, we are dealing here with truth,
>simple clear truth and it has driven the
>homophobes and hate-mongers right around the
>corner. They have confused their sub-literate
>status with truth; to the vast detriment of the
>intellectual life of the United States.
Ward, you will enjoy this web page:
John Sanger
In article <33175D...@mnsinc.com> tes...@mnsinc.com writes:
>Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>> >this country and deserves some respect.
>>
>> a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
>> walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
>>
>> They booed him out of the room.
>>
>> To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
>> and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
>wounded and recieved a purple heart. He was in a hospital for months
>and he never once complained. He said it was an honor to serve his
>country. He was a true patriot. He always said that we could have won in
>Vietnam if it had`nt been for a bunch of little sissies who were too
>cowardly to serve their country and instead bravely protested at home
>and abroad. (billy clinton) small letters intended!!!!
The reason for the defeat in SEA can only be laid at the feet of one
Robert S. MacNamarra.... it was he who sent the field orders from his
desk in the Pentagon.... instead of letting the field commanders fight
the battle according to what they knew of the situation and from the
vast knowledge and training that they had....
The success in "Desert Storm" was due to the field commanders making the
decisions and issuing the field orders...
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)> veteran of SEA
tedd...@netcom.com
__
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:23:22 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com said:
>Ezekiel Krahlin...Thank you for your assistance!
Hey, grunt, that's what I'm here for, you hereford.
>I hope that you will continue your good work! Every paragraph you write
>is another round for us to fire in the war against homosexuality and it
>resulting societal decay.
Well, the enemy fire is awfully light...bullets must be spitballs at
best. No one of you homophobes has provided any case in your
defense...no quotes or references from *any* sources, reliable or
otherwise. (Except this stupid one-liner from John Wayne that seems to
be the only quote you grunts know. Think it's gonna get you into
heaven or somethin'? Think chanting "John Wayne, John Wayne" is gonna
cast some evil spell over me? Well, don't hold your breath...on
second thought, please do! The world will be better off.) Do you
really see your retorts as more than the frustrated masturbations of
frightened monkeys locked in a cage of heterosexist bigotry?
>We will continue to archive your post and use them to demonstrate to our
>elected representatives the kind of thinking that is predominate in the
>homosexual community today.
Good, for inadvertantly, you are just giving yourselves enough rope
for your own hanging! Don't you realize that the anti-homophobic laws
spreading throughout most democracies will soon crumble heterosexist
bigotry in our nation? What do you think the government will finally
do to your kind, who persist in spewing bigotry, defamation, and
violence against our homosexual citizens? A light wrist slapping?
No, we gayfolk are soon to have our own version of The Nuremburg
Trials, where homophobes like you will be called to the carpet, and
must pay for your abominations...some with your lives.
>You are a valuable source and we
>sincerely hopeful that you will continue to provide us with useful
>anti-homosexual ammunition.
Thank you, thank you. Inadvertantly once again, you are building my
rise to national and international recognition...and my voice will
just become greater. I read between your lines, and I just see four
little letters:
F E A R
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
joh...@netcom.com wrote:
>
> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:39:38 GMT, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger)
> scribed:
>
> >>>With names like
> >>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
> >>> Plato (and Phaedo)
> >>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
> >>> Sappho
> >>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
> >>>
> >>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
> >>>like this!
> >>>
> >>>ward
>
> >>
> >>
> >>You live lies...you tell lies...your existence is less honorable than a
> >>lie.
> >
> >You are such an ignorant person that it is not even worthwhile pointing
> >out the Alexander himself said he had a male lover.....
> >
> >And Sappho was most definitely a lesbian.....
>
> were queer...Yeah, right!
>
> Any one can easily see your lie, but you attempt to support your
> delusionist homo-fantasy with nothing other than "your word". Holy
> Shit! Some of us may have been born at night, but not LAST NIGHT! We
> know that if your fingers are on the keyboard...you've lied.
>
> Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut up!
>
> John T.
>
> >Ciao!
> > John S. 8^{)>
> >__
> >
Hey, John T.: Get your FACTS straight. And your rhetoric, while you're
at it. "your existence is less honorable than a lie," and the cute
thing about "not LAST NIGHT!" may make you think you sound clever, but
the facts are present for all to see. And it's not hardly within the
past 10 years. Most goes back 30-40 years or more, and was performed by
HETERO historians. Know why Alexander conquered the then-known world?
Because when it's one soldier against another, you're fighting for your
life. But when one soldier tries to hurt another's LOVER, the LOVE is
far more powerful a thing. You can say what you want about me, for
example, and I'll probably just let you run your mouth. Say hurtful
things about someone I care about, though, and you'll wake up in a
hospital bed, if at all. That's what passion does. So how about you
use that grey matter between your ears for something more than repeating
someone else's "clever" lines. Ever think about the possibility that
your hateful opinions might be wrong? Just for a moment, consider what
sort of responsibility you have for spreading your biggotry if you are.
Food for thought. Chow down.
--
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
mailto:falc...@bigfoot.com
http://www.geocities.com/~austringer
©1997 John A. Yezeguielian - All Rights Reserved
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
The "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" supposedly clever and witty
comment rears its silly head again.
You give credit to God for creation, but not common sense? The
male-female partnership was necessary for reproduction, and most any
cretin can figure that much out. If sex were only for procreation,
though, by what logic would God make it feel good? It's for pleasure,
like pretty sights, good food, the feeling of the sun against your
skin... God gives all good gifts, including love, sensation and yes,
sexuality. GOD never made the Adam and Steve sarcastic and caustic
remark, so why do you? I give Him credit for the sense to get the
plumbing functional, and for the sense to not judge people based on
something as silly as a chromosome. He told us to love each other, and
to act lovingly. Homosexuals aren't, as a whole, out to hurt anyone.
Meanwhile, homophobes are on some sick mission (they SAY is from the one
loving God) to make people's lives miserable. Give God credit. Use
your head. And give us a break.
--
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
mailto:falc...@bigfoot.com
http://www.geocities.com/~austringer
Š1997 John A. Yezeguielian - All Rights Reserved
John Sanger
In article <33390fe5....@nntp.ix.netcom.com> joh...@netcom.com writes:
>On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:39:38 GMT, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger)
>scribed:
>
>
>>>>With names like
>>>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
>>>> Plato (and Phaedo)
>>>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
>>>> Sappho
>>>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
>>>>
>>>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
>>>>like this!
>>>>
>>>>ward
>
>
>>>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
>>>
>>>pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! There is not one small shred of hard
>>>evidence to support your lie. It's only been within the last ten years
>>>or so homo's have been trying to hang there filthy life style on the
>>>DEAD! Did historians all of a sudden discover a hidden hoard of
>>>found a lie that you thought no one would question...you're wrong
>>>queerboy...you're wrong!
>>>
>>>lie.
>>
>>You are such an ignorant person that it is not even worthwhile pointing
>>out the Alexander himself said he had a male lover.....
>>
>>And Sappho was most definitely a lesbian.....
>
>
>
>A queer would find no advantage in saying that famous persons in history
>were queer...Yeah, right!
>
>Any one can easily see your lie, but you attempt to support your
>delusionist homo-fantasy with nothing other than "your word". Holy
>Shit! Some of us may have been born at night, but not LAST NIGHT! We
>know that if your fingers are on the keyboard...you've lied.
>
>Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut up!
>
It would appear that it is you who is lying all the while you head is
shoved up you arse so far that it will take a D9 cat to pull it out....
clueless is as clueless does!
john_t2==clueless==ignoramus
Ezekiel Krahlin
>The "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" supposedly clever and witty
>comment rears its silly head again.
I've enjoyed immensely, you intelligent rebuttals, John...folks like
you keep hope in my heart, and the home fires burning. I think you'll
enjoy the following:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
Christian shaman's essay gratis to anyone, anywhere, any
time...under condition that story remains intact and complete,
including title and credit to the original author: Ezekiel J.
Krahlin (ekra...@fog.net).
--------------------------------------------------------------
GOD MADE 'MADAM & EVE' AND 'ADAM & STEVE'
Copyright 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin (ekra...@fog.net)
(Permission granted to freely distribute this essay anywhere
and everywhere, in its complete and unaltered form, with
credit to the true author. Maybe "Christnet" would love to
see this stuff--chuckle. And what about "Muslimnet"...after
all, Xians aren't the only murderers of sisterly/brotherly
love.)
Dear Compatriots of Same-Sex Love,
There is one particular phrase that those phobic fundies
use against our homophile population; whose refrain I am so
tired of hearing, that I decided to compose this letter as a
rebuttal. I invite others to use it as a weapon against those
jerks...or as an introspective tool for self centering.
We of the SSL (same-sex lover) persuasion are all too
familiar with the insulting--albeit clever--slur, "God made
Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". It is usually spoken by
either: (1) a post-adolescent punk who ejaculates wads of
saliva every two minutes to affirm what he perceives as
masculinity, or (2) some hairy-nosed reptilian fundamentalist
old fogey, or (3) a neatly groomed young lady who thinks she
is God's gift to men, and sneers at the idea of any male
desiring someone of the same sex instead of her!
Indeed, in the Christian/Muslim/Judaic world views, God
did first create a heterosexual pair to start the race. I
have no argument here. But that is only the blueprint for
human intimacy, and nothing more. He also made each of us a
mini-creator in our own right; shaping nature to suit our own
needs and desires, including one's appearance and behavior.
For example: God did not make Adam without facial hair, and
Eve without leg or armpit hair (or let us assume so, for the
sake of argument). Yet many of us choose to shave it off.
God did not give us wings to fly, yet gave us a brilliant
mind to conceive of ways to do that...no doubt inspired by His
other great creation: birds. So now we have many ways to
float ourselves in the air, some simple, some complex: swings,
trampolines, jets, hang gliders, and helicopters, to name but
a few.
Does bread grow on trees? No, God did not make bread. It
is the descendants of Eve and Adam who ground up grains into a
fine flour, then, mixed with honey and yeast for leavening,
rolled it into balls of dough and exposed them to the heat of
an enclosed fire to produce what is known as the staff of life
in most parts of the world.
Alright, you say, these examples are well and good...but
where does one draw the line on what things humans can create
or manipulate that are dangerous, immoral, or otherwise just
plain wrong...particularly, in the realm of sexuality? One
standard is determined on the grounds of whether or not what
you do injures another, or has the potential to do so.
Certainly, two consenting adults of the same sex who form a
romantic and sexual bond with each other, do no injury to
anyone. This is common sense. They actually enhance the
condition of the human race by their positive energies. The
only potential "harm" I see, is to shattering the fat egos of
bigoted folk who don't want to give up their homophobic
delusions (which are injurious in so many nasty ways).
By the same token, I would gladly pass a law against
bestiality, even though there does not seem to be any injured
third party. This is because I believe one must, at a certain
point, draw the line. I would also draw the line on lewd
behavior in public, whether it be from heterosexuals or
homosexuals. Kissing, hugging, love-petting: fine and dandy,
a good thing to see. Explicit sexual acts in parks, rest
rooms, or on the streets: arrest 'em!
So as I said earlier, the heterosexual model is only a
blueprint. Homosexuality is a normal deviation for
approximately ten percent of any population. Though I believe
that, once homophobia is eradicated, a much higher proportion
of citizens will breathe a great sigh of relief and leap into
a bisexual or same-sex alternative...once there is no danger
or intimidation attached to those choices. Far fewer people
will get sucked into obligatory marriages and breeding of
unwanted (hence unhappy) children. Sounds pretty sane to me.
I also believe that the day will come--and soon--when
developing nations will promote same-sex relationships as a
healthy solution to overpopulation. Billboards will be
scattered throughout their lands, depicting two women or men
in wholesome, intimate, and loving associations. It will then
catch on to the "advanced" societies.
So when some dimwit throws you a curve with the hokey
"Adam and Steve" sermon, ask him if he shaves (or if she uses
birth control). And point out one more intriguing
observation:
How peculiar it is that so much homophobic vitriol
emanates from a religion that reveres, adores, and weeps over
the love between two beautiful men...and even considers them
"The Greatest Story Ever Told"! It seems that if these
perversely neurotic souls were not the blatant hypocrites they
are; they would flock to every gay neighborhood and applaud
all the same-sex couples passing by. They would weep and
dance with joy each time they sight a lesbian or gay couple
who exchange a loving touch, a hungry kiss, or a bountiful
hug. They would be worshipping the very ground we walk on,
and clear our path with fronds of date palms.
Ho-hum. This too shall come to pass. Soon enough, soon
enough.
END OF ESSAY "GOD MADE 'MADAM & EVE' AND 'ADAM & STEVE'"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ezekiel Krahlin
>It's strange that you use the bible as a reference. I am not a biblical
>scholar but I recall the bible says something about ADAM AND EVE, not
>ADAM AND STEVE.
ORIGINAL SIN: HETEROSEXUALITY
It was Adam and Eve who committed the original sin...says so right
there in The Old Testament, you know, "The Good Book", "The Bible".
GENESIS CHAPTER THREE. Adam and Eve were what? A man and a woman,
you know, as in "heterosexual." Original sin wasn't created between
two men or two women, you know, "Adam and Steve" or "Madame and Eve."
Adam and Eve broke God's law: they "knew" each other, as in "had
intercourse", as symbolized by the eating of the apple in the tree of
knowledge of good and evil. They "knew" each other: they "knew
evil". How obvious, how simple. God had other plans for human
procreation...to create new beings from our hearts and minds, just as
God and the angels do. But when this law was broken, he condemned
heterosexuals to give birth in an inferior way, just like animals...in
blood, feces, and pain.
All other sins are mere spinoffs of the original sin: The sin between
a man and a woman, the sin of heterosexual conjugal relations. It's
there, right there in The Good Book...and no one can erase or alter
that fact as plain is the nose at the end of your face.
No true homosexual woman or man would ever *dream* of violating that
most fundamental of God's law. We are persecuted by the descendants
of Adam and Eve: heterosexuals. Straight, homophobic bible-thumping
idiots who are *jealous* that we Lesbians and Thracians will never
have to answer to God for that original, most heinous of all sins:
for we are FREE FROM ORIGINAL SIN! Hallelujah, my gay sisters and
brothers, hallelujah to us all!
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 14:25:04 GMT, big...@mailmasher.com said:
>On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 04:39:26 -0600, "John \"Taylor\" Yezeguielian"
><falc...@radware.net> wrote:
>
>>The "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" supposedly clever and witty
>>comment rears its silly head again.
>I would just like to point out that GOD turned somone into a tree in
>the Bible(sorry, I don't recall the name). This was a punishment for
>spilling his seed onto the ground and not into the womb of a woman. I
>realize this was for masterbation and not homosexual activity but it's
>not much of a leap to equate the wasting of the seed to your acts.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------
Permission granted by author for anyone to distribute this
Christian shaman's essay gratis to anyone, anywhere, any
time...under condition that story remains intact and complete,
including title and credit to the original author: Ezekiel J.
Krahlin (ekra...@fog.net).
--------------------------------------------------------------
THE HISTORICAL ROOTS OF HOMOPHOBIA
Copyright 1997 by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
The historical roots of modern homophobia lie in the
early Hebrews' need to propagate in order to outnumber their
tribal enemies. Thus it became a heinous sin for any male to
"spill seed" outside of a woman's "vessel". Same-sex love was
therefore incorporated by their religious leaders to be an
abomination in the eyes of God. (Christianity's emergence
carried forth this heterosexist supremacy into modern times
with a vengeance so cruel, that it can only be deemed a mass
insanity or psychosis.) Perhaps this extreme measure was a
necessary evil, as a matter of survival to a tribe threatened
with annihilation by enemies on every side. But that was
several thousand years ago, and now we live in a world far
too populated for its own well-being.
Perhaps it is time for God to reverse the ancient law of
homophobia and declare it a sin *not* to waste seed. Perhaps
we should no longer "turn the other cheek" (to use the
fundamentalists' own Christian terminology), but revert to the
ancient Mosaic law of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"
(or in this case, a baby for a queer). Perhaps it is time for
a "New Passover"--only this one for queers--sacrificing the
hetero firstborn of every breeder as Yahweh's warning to give
us our freedom. Perhaps the act of "breeding" (without strict
social guidelines) should now be made a crime punishable by
death. Enforced spilling of seed anywhere except in a woman's
vessel may be the "necessary evil" to save us from global
disaster--and will put new meaning in the phrase "turn the
other cheek".
Remember, homophobic swines: you do not *make* a
baby--only genetics (read "God") can do that. Woman is just
the vessel. It is how you raise a child that counts...which
has nothing to do with whether one's parents are "natural" or
not. As a matter of fact, the current rise in child abuse
(and neglect) by heterosexist parents, is so alarming that
even a test tube would provide a safer haven to these hapless
offspring. It takes no brains to insert rod A into slot B,
which is the only reason you illiterate homophobic simians can
breed at all. And the only reason most of you breed your
brains out is to assure each other that you are not
homosexual--with your fleshly offspring as your "Good
Housekeeping Seal Of Approval" to parade before us queers in
our own neighborhoods. Stop screwing, and read a good book
for once in your life.
-----end of essay-----
Ezekiel Krahlin
On 1 Mar 1997 04:25:29 GMT, lpku...@ix.netcom.com(Lawrence P. Kuscin)
said:
>Just like YOUR KIND killed Jesus Chirst because he was telling
>about minding your OWN FUCKING BUSINESS, and to LOVE everyone, you
>KILLED HIM. You would KILL him today as well.
Right on, brother! These military homophobes certainly would kill
Christ, if they could. But I believe in the dawning of this New Era,
where finally, these jerks will be put in their place...and that,
soon, laws against homophobia will sweep over our country, just as
they have over most other democracies. I see the return of Christ as
a state of mind, a raising of consciousness among all people...to
assume greater responsibility and ethics in bringing about a world
than can breathe in joyful peace and comradeship.
We (Thracians/Lesbians) will have our own version of The Nuremburg
Trials...as the worst offenders against GayFolk will be brought before
a jury, and condemned for their atrocities. How can we track these
criminals down? Well, through databases such as Usenet...we can use a
search engine like DejaNews web page:
http://www.gms.lu/search/dejanews/load.html
Just search for character strings of homophobic slurs...then come up
with a list. Then use other databases to get a more extensive
biography, and locate their whereabouts.
So I'm glad these violent apes are spewing all this hatred for the
world to witness...let them think they can get away with it...they're
just getting enough rope to hang themselves by.
Lawrence, you're a better soldier and Marine than many on this
newsgroup (with all due respect for those in the military who are
*not* homophobic, and who speak up on our behalf...they are gallant
fighters, too).
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
John_T sent a reply to me privately, quoted below. My response to him
is as follows. I doubt this guy will ever get a clue and since it's
unlikely that he's truly that moronic, we should probably stop giving
him the attention he seems to be seeking... I tried to reply to him
privately, but the mail was returned undeliverable.
joh...@netcom.com wrote:
> =
> New here aren't you...I suggest you go to alt.test and work on you
> thinking skills. This is just to let you know that your babble is so
> sophomoronic I chose not to honor it with a public reply.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I replied: =
<laugh>
Okay, pal. Sophomoric, eh? Funny, my publishers don't seem to think
so, nor does the education I received at Cornell on a full scholarship -
a scholarship obtained at age 16. Perhaps if you put aside your pride
and arrogance and allowed other possibilities but your own thoughts (or
those handed to you,) you'd be able to understand _and_ learn to be more
tolerant of ways other than your own. Or is your not "dignifying" it
with a public reply just a coward's excuse for "I have no credible
arguement?"
Since you didn' t have the courtesy to reply where you were addressed,
I'll do it for you.
John
History: =
> =
> >On Sat, 01 Mar 1997 04:31:20 -0600,
> > "John \"Taylor\" Yezeguielian" <falc...@radware.net>scrawled:
> =
> >joh...@netcom.com wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:39:38 GMT, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger)
> >> scribed:
> >>
> >> >>>With names like
> >> >>> Alexander (and Hephaeston)
> >> >>> Plato (and Phaedo)
> >> >>> Aristotle (and Hermias)
> >> >>> Sappho
> >> >>> Shakespeare (and Mr HW)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>What need have we for numbers when we have members
> >> >>>like this!
> >> >>>
> >> >>>ward
> >>
> >> >>NO QUEERS ON THAT LIST...LIAR!
> >> >>
> ><snip>
> >> >>
> >> >>You live lies...you tell lies...your existence is less honorable t=
han a
> >> >>lie.
> >> >
> >> >You are such an ignorant person that it is not even worthwhile poin=
ting
> >> >out the Alexander himself said he had a male lover.....
> >> >
> >> >And Sappho was most definitely a lesbian.....
> >>
> >> A queer would find no advantage in saying that famous persons in his=
tory
> >> were queer...Yeah, right!
> >>
> >> Any one can easily see your lie, but you attempt to support your
> >> delusionist homo-fantasy with nothing other than "your word". Holy
> >> Shit! Some of us may have been born at night, but not LAST NIGHT! W=
e
> >> know that if your fingers are on the keyboard...you've lied.
> >>
> >> Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut =
up!
> >>
> >> John T.
> >> --
> >>
> >> >Ciao!
> >> > John S. 8^{)>
> >> > tedd...@netcom.com
> >> >__
> >> >
> >Hey, John T.: Get your FACTS straight. And your rhetoric, while you'r=
e
> >at it. "your existence is less honorable than a lie," and the cute
> >thing about "not LAST NIGHT!" may make you think you sound clever, but=
> >the facts are present for all to see. And it's not hardly within the
> >past 10 years. Most goes back 30-40 years or more, and was performed =
by
> >HETERO historians. Know why Alexander conquered the then-known world?=
> >Because when it's one soldier against another, you're fighting for you=
r
> >life. But when one soldier tries to hurt another's LOVER, the LOVE is=
> >far more powerful a thing. You can say what you want about me, for
> >example, and I'll probably just let you run your mouth. Say hurtful
> >things about someone I care about, though, and you'll wake up in a
> >hospital bed, if at all. That's what passion does. So how about you
> >use that grey matter between your ears for something more than repeati=
ng
> >someone else's "clever" lines. Ever think about the possibility that
> >your hateful opinions might be wrong? Just for a moment, consider wha=
t
> >sort of responsibility you have for spreading your biggotry if you are=
=2E
> >
> >Food for thought. Chow down.
> >--
> >John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
> >mailto:falc...@bigfoot.com
> >http://www.geocities.com/~austringer
> >?1997 John A. Yezeguielian - All Rights Reserved
> >
-- =
John "Taylor" Yezeguielian
mailto:falc...@bigfoot.com
http://www.geocities.com/~austringer
=A91997 John A. Yezeguielian - All Rights Reserved
Harry Estes
> Ciao!We may disagree about the homosexual thing but I can respect you for
serving your country!
Ward Stewart
Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com> wrote:
>John Sanger wrote:
>>
>> In article <33175D...@mnsinc.com> tes...@mnsinc.com writes:
>> >Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>> >> >But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>> >> >because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>> >> >this country and deserves some respect.
He was a skillful Movie Actor -- some folks seem
to have difficulty separating the person from the
persona -- A Movie career, whether sucessful like
"Duke's" or second rate loke Bonzo's co-star has
NOTHING to do with the business of running a
country.
>>
>> The success in "Desert Storm" was due to the field commanders making the
>> decisions and issuing the field orders...
>>
>> --
>> Ciao!
>> John S. 8^{)> veteran of SEA
>> tedd...@netcom.com
>> __
>We may disagree about the homosexual thing but I can respect you for
>serving your country!
C'mon Harry! What do you suppose we are,
martians? - I am a Korean vet, Virtually ALL of
us have behaved just like the rest of the
citizens, except for who we love we are just
another bunch of citizens.
George and I have, between the teo of us paid in
more than a century of taxes, state, federal,
city, sales, WHATEVER --
We are not "different" in any essential way --
except, perhaps, that many of our fellow citizens
hate us.
ward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
When someone with the authority of a teacher, say,
describes the world and you are not in it, there is a
moment of psychic disequilibrium, as if you looked
into a mirror and saw nothing.
--Adrienne Rich, "Invisibility in Academe"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
crol...@pvtnetworks.net
bo...@geocities.com wrote:
>
> Harry Estes wrote:
>
> > I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
> > But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> > because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> > this country and deserves some respect.
>
> always playing the same character, acting like some ridiculous
> caricature of "tha pioneerin' spirit". How does that make him a hero
> and worthy of my respect? By this kind of logic, we should all bow down
> and worship Mel Gibson or some other macho actor. I don't think so.
>
> x
John Wayne is a National Hero whether you like it or not! No one said he
saved the Union or freed the slaves or anything like that but it doesn't
alter public opinion.
What the hell does Michael Jordon do except play a kids game and sell
shoes and junk food?
BiNM
Conrad Sabatier
In article <33187D...@mnsinc.com>,
Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com> writes:
>
> We may disagree about the homosexual thing but I can respect you for
> serving your country!
My, but that's just so *awfully* big of you. We're just *ever* so grateful,
really, we are.
How *can* we thank you, really?
--
Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
bo...@geocities.com
zoe wilfong
The worship of John Wayne is typical of the right wing's desire to turn
the clock back to 'the good old days.' They don't seem to recognize that
this phenomenon is constant and is not based on the 'morality' of any
given time or place. A hundred years from now the right wingers will be
looking back wistfully at the 1990's, wishing they could go back to the
days when 'men were men' and god was feared, blah, blah, blah.
zoe
John Sanger
>
Noticeably absent from your post is any evidence of the "hero" status of
"Duke"....
You have only illustrated that he was infact an actor.... Hooray!!
We knew that already.... where is your evidence of his "hero" status....
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
John Sanger
In article <331A54...@pvtnetworks.net> crol...@pvtnetworks.net writes:
>bo...@geocities.com wrote:
>>
>> Harry Estes wrote:
>>
>>
>> always playing the same character, acting like some ridiculous
>> caricature of "tha pioneerin' spirit". How does that make him a hero
>> and worthy of my respect? By this kind of logic, we should all bow down
>> and worship Mel Gibson or some other macho actor. I don't think so.
>>
>> x
>
>saved the Union or freed the slaves or anything like that but it doesn't
>alter public opinion.
>
Supply the incident which makes this movie actor a "national hero"....
>What the hell does Michael Jordon do except play a kids game and sell
>shoes and junk food?
>
Trying to change the topic.....
clueless is as clueless does!
crollins==clueless==ignoramus
Big Jim
> > Harry Estes wrote:
> >
> > > I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
> > > But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
> > > because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
> > > this country and deserves some respect.
John (Marion Morrison) Wayne is definitely a FOLK HERO, but definitely
not a actual hero. When other actors such as Robert Ryan, Mickey Rooney,
and even Ron Reagan went into military service, Duke Wayne stayed safely
in Hollywoodland, fooling around with those Mexican ladies he loved so much.
Somehow his on-screen persona got transferred to his off-screen life.
Harry Estes
Coronal
lew...@ibm.net wrote:
> Well John,
> Appears that *>your<* hero might be Rock Hudson !
I doubt that Rock Hudson did anything to merit being considered a
"hero" by John or anyone else on this newsgroup.
lew...@ibm.net
In <teddyburE...@netcom.com>, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger) writes:
>In article <331A54...@pvtnetworks.net> crol...@pvtnetworks.net writes:
>>bo...@geocities.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>>> > But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>>> > because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>>> > this country and deserves some respect.
>>>
>>> always playing the same character, acting like some ridiculous
>>> caricature of "tha pioneerin' spirit". How does that make him a hero
>>> and worthy of my respect? By this kind of logic, we should all bow down
>>> and worship Mel Gibson or some other macho actor. I don't think so.
>>>
>>> x
>>
>>John Wayne is a National Hero whether you like it or not! No one said he
>>saved the Union or freed the slaves or anything like that but it doesn't
>>alter public opinion.
>>
>
>Supply the incident which makes this movie actor a "national hero"....
>
>>What the hell does Michael Jordon do except play a kids game and sell
>>shoes and junk food?
>>
>
>Trying to change the topic.....
>
> clueless is as clueless does!
>
> crollins==clueless==ignoramus
>
>--
>Ciao!
> John S. 8^{)>
> tedd...@netcom.com
Appears that *>your<* hero might be Rock Hudson !
Lew
in waaaaaaaay south Tx y'aaaaallllllll
lew...@ibm.net
In <tpjdf5...@dolphin.neosoft.com>, con...@neosoft.com (Conrad Sabatier) writes:
>In article <33187D...@mnsinc.com>,
> Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com> writes:
>>
>> We may disagree about the homosexual thing but I can respect you for
>> serving your country!
>
>My, but that's just so *awfully* big of you. We're just *ever* so grateful,
>really, we are.
>
>How *can* we thank you, really?
>
>--
>Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
>
You could thank us by not cross posting.
Bye
Lew
in waaaaaaaaaaay south Tx y'aaaaalllllllllll
John Sanger
Not at all, the only real "American Hero" movie star was Audie Murphy,
the winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor in WWII.
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
tedd...@netcom.com
__
Rich Soyack
John, I suggest you check your facts. Quite a few movie stars fought in World War II a
number with distinction.
Rich Soyack
Eric Fierke
On Mon, 03 Mar 1997 18:29:32 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
wrote:
>Conrad Sabatier wrote:
>>
>> In article <33187D...@mnsinc.com>,
>> Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com> writes:
>> >
>> > We may disagree about the homosexual thing but I can respect you for
>> > serving your country!
>>
>> My, but that's just so *awfully* big of you. We're just *ever* so grateful,
>> really, we are.
>>
>> How *can* we thank you, really?
>>
>> --
>> Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
>Stop being a smart ass!
He's NOT being a smart ass... you can respect Ward and John
for serving their country, but you deny them the right to do so?
That's the biggest load of hypocritical shit I've seen on this group
to date (and I've seen a lot)
John Sanger
>> >Appears that *>your<* hero might be Rock Hudson !
>> >
>>
>> Not at all, the only real "American Hero" movie star was Audie Murphy,
>> the winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor in WWII.
>
>John, I suggest you check your facts. Quite a few movie stars fought in World War II a
>number with distinction.
>
But service does not make them an "American Hero" but in Audie Murphy's
case his service was above and beyond the call of duty.... That makes
him a "Real American Hero"....
--
Ciao!
John S. 8^{)>
tedd...@netcom.com
__
John De Salvio
In article <331C12...@worldnet.att.net>, Rich Soyack
<r.so...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> John, I suggest you check your facts. Quite a few movie stars fought in
World War II a
> number with distinction.
I suggest you check your reading skills. He said nothing about any
other movies stars besides John Wayne. He pointed out that the
łonly real American hero" movie star was Audie Murphy; others may
have served with distinction, but were not national heroes, which is
what the original poster was trying to claim for John Wayne.
--
John
NOTE: "From" address is deliberately wrong.
My correct e-mail address is:
Charlie Andrews
T(>In article <4348...@commobunker.com> charlie...@commobunker.com
T(>(Charlie Andrews) writes:
T(>>
T(>>Kchi...@mnsi.net, said:
T(>>
T(>>
T(>>K(>On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:25:50 +0000, Harry Estes <tes...@mnsinc.com>
T(>>K(>wrote:
T(>>K(>
T(>>K(>>I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
T(>>K(>>But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
T(>>K(>>because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
T(>>K(>>this country and deserves some respect.
T(>>K(>
T(>>K(>Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
T(>>K(>a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
T(>>K(>walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
T(>>K(>
T(>>K(>They booed him out of the room.
T(>>K(>
T(>>K(>To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
T(>>K(>and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
T(>>K(>
T(>>
T(>> Would you be kind enough to document the above statement? I
T(>> am of the opinion that it is a product of your overactive
T(>> imagination. Perhaps it is a urban legend, within the gay
T(>> community.
T(>>
T(>> If there is any fact to this "incident" please document it.
T(>>
T(>> I happened to be at Ft. Benning, GA, in 1967 while John
T(>> Wayne was filming "The Green Berets," and I can assure you
T(>> that he had the respect and admiration, of every soldier
T(>> on that base.
T(>>
T(>> Martha Raye is another entertainer that comes to mind, when
T(>> speaking of the esteem that some of them were held by the
T(>> troops. She was made an honorary Col. in the Army Special
T(>> Forces. Not because she wiped out a nest of VC, but because
T(>> she cared about and supported the troops, as did John Wayne,
T(>> above and beyond anything that was expected or demanded of
T(>> her.
T(>>
T(>> There are many people that contribute to the welfare and
T(>> morale of the armed forces, and all are appreciated.
T(>>
T(>> Noticeably absent from the list are whiners and fingerpointers.
T(>>
T(>
T(>Noticeably absent from your post is any evidence of the "hero" status of
T(>"Duke"....
T(>You have only illustrated that he was infact an actor.... Hooray!!
T(>
T(>We knew that already.... where is your evidence of his "hero" status....
T(>
T(>--
T(>Ciao!
T(> John S. 8^{)>
T(> tedd...@netcom.com
T(>__
There was nothing in your post, which I have left for you to
read, if you can stand to read the bullshit, about him being
a "hero." You questioned his "manliness" and "patriotism".
As I stated, in my reply, his manliness nor patriotism was
never questioned by the men, serving in the military, during
the Vietnam war.
Noticeably absent from your reply, is an answer to my, very
direct, challenge to you to provide evidence of the incident,
that you quoted in your original post, that he was booed out
of a vet hospital.
You, lady, are full of shit, have no valid arguments, avoid
the issues and try to divert attention from the subject, and
need to stay out of the veterans newsgroups, and over with
the pansies.
Charlie
Volunteer Parachute Tester
/\ WAR LIBRARY CANADA
_/\| |/\_ BIBLIOTHEQUE CANADIENNE DE GUERRE
\ =F4=BF=F4 / FAC UT GAUDEAM
>______< charlie...@commobunker.com
/ CWL# 7 1/8 ???, SFA(M-6497-L)
2ndMDA# 3719-L, 1st SFR(Airborne)
TelNet to: commobunker.com
The Commo Bunker (919) 257-5551 33,600 baud v34/v-fc All lines
___
* UniQWK #2504* This message was made entirely of recycled electrons.
Rich Soyack
John De Salvio wrote:
>
> In article <331C12...@worldnet.att.net>, Rich Soyack
> <r.so...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > John, I suggest you check your facts. Quite a few movie stars fought in
> World War II a
> > number with distinction.
>
> I suggest you check your reading skills. He said nothing about any
> other movies stars besides John Wayne. He pointed out that the
> łonly real American hero" movie star was Audie Murphy; others may
> have served with distinction, but were not national heroes, which is
> what the original poster was trying to claim for John Wayne.
>
Oh, I am stung with an insult! Will I be able to go on?
We had quite a few national heroes during World War II, several of them were movie
stars, one of them was Audie Murphy. None, to my knowledge, was John Wayne.
Rich Soyack
John Sanger
In article <332a04a2...@nntp.netcom.com> sanjuan@hi_grande.co.net writes:
>On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 07:15:49 -0500, Rich Soyack
><r.so...@worldnet.att.net> scribed:
>
>
>>> Not at all, the only real "American Hero" movie star was Audie Murphy,
>>> the winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor in WWII.
>>
>>number with distinction.
>>
>
>Check Fact! Are you kidding? This guy wouldn't think of checking facts
>....he's one of those who just throws crap out on the net and if it gets
>a one or two percent belief rate he happy as a pig in shit. Of course
>he always counts on his 100% from the "girls".
>
>Sanger wouldn't recognize a fact if it kicked him in the ass!
>Take a look at some of the bullshit he's posted...it's so phoney it's
>laughable!
>
>The guy's a joke...
>
>
Your ignorance is again showing.....
Supply the proof that what I have posted is not factual!
Or be branded the LIAR that you so obviously are!
clueless is as clueless does!
sanjuan==clueless==ignoramus==LIAR
Bill Shakespeare
>John De Salvio wrote:
>>
>> In article <331C12...@worldnet.att.net>, Rich Soyack
>> <r.so...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> > John, I suggest you check your facts. Quite a few movie stars fought in
>> World War II a
>> > number with distinction.
>>
>> I suggest you check your reading skills. He said nothing about any
>> other movies stars besides John Wayne. He pointed out that the
>> łonly real American hero" movie star was Audie Murphy; others may
>> have served with distinction, but were not national heroes, which is
>> what the original poster was trying to claim for John Wayne.
>>
>
>Oh, I am stung with an insult! Will I be able to go on?
>
>We had quite a few national heroes during World War II, several of them were movie
>stars, one of them was Audie Murphy. None, to my knowledge, was John Wayne.
>
>Rich Soyack
Haven't you fellows put the cart before the horse?
Audie Murphy wasn't a movie star until long after he became
a decorated "hero".
Peredur
> Listen to me..."Silence is the best remedy for stupidity"...so shut up!> >
>
> John T.
> --
)>Please walk your talk.
Regards,
Peredur
> >__
> >
Ward Stewart
"Roy G. Callahan"
<RoyCall...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Lawrence P. Kuscin wrote:
>>
>> There are THOSE that attack me for LOVING a MAN.
>>
>> SHAME on them. For LOVE comes from GOD.
>>
>> >>Well, then you'll just have to sit and fume, because my post will
>> >>still be read by anyone who cares to read. Did you think for one
>> >>moment that I expected to be welcome with open arms, here? No, I
>> >>willfully jumped in, rolled up my sleeves, and am going to my work,
>> >>like the brave soldier I am.
>> >>
>>
>> Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE, NOT LOVE.
>> I just read in the Daily Paper that we are WINNING the war on AIDS.
>>
>> I said it was just a matter of time in 1989 in the Philadelphia Gay
>> News, and in my writings "It's OKAY to be Gay." The drop reported
>> "AIDS deaths show decline across nation." The range was a high of 16
>> percent in the West, to 15 percent in the Northeast and 11 percent in
>> the Midwest and 8 percent in the South.
>It's strange that you use the bible as a reference. I am not a biblical
>scholar but I recall the bible says something about ADAM AND EVE, not
>ADAM AND STEVE.
Here we have the very apogee of scholarship and
profound knowlege of thge human dilemma and the
role of God in the universe.
IF your odd assumptions are correct and God did
indeed "make" Adam and Eve -- why are you so sure
that he did not also make Adam and Steve -- did he
not make roses and weeds, or are homosexuals
somehow to be excluded from the creation you claim
to believe in.
ward
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is no better tool with which to pound plowshares
into swords than the bible.
J. A. Stanley
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Thu, 06 Mar 1997 06:23:19 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart) said:
>IF your odd assumptions are correct and God did
>indeed "make" Adam and Eve -- why are you so sure
>that he did not also make Adam and Steve --
He also made Madam and Eve!
---
(Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
Please keep our dialogues public; private mail by request only.
Hostile private replies will be re-posted in the public arena.
Ward Stewart
crol...@pvtnetworks.net wrote:
>bo...@geocities.com wrote:
>>
>> Harry Estes wrote:
>>
>> > I can deal with you insulting this country and God. God can handle it.
>> > But leave John Wayne out of it. The man is dead. And he did`nt die
>> > because he was backdooring another guy and got aids. He was a hero to
>> > this country and deserves some respect.
>>
>> He was a hero?! How? He starred in a large number of generic westerns,
>> always playing the same character, acting like some ridiculous
>> caricature of "tha pioneerin' spirit". How does that make him a hero
>> and worthy of my respect? By this kind of logic, we should all bow down
>> and worship Mel Gibson or some other macho actor. I don't think so.
>>
>> x
>John Wayne is a National Hero whether you like it or not! No one said he
>saved the Union or freed the slaves or anything like that but it doesn't
>alter public opinion.
>What the hell does Michael Jordon do except play a kids game and sell
>shoes and junk food?
>BiNM
One begins to understand -- YOUR version of a
"hero" is one who does nothing much and is
declared a "hero" by flacks and press agents.
If this is your basis -- John Wayne is surely a
hero. That he has become so without any heroic
thoughts or deeds is improbable but it is YOUR
definition we are dealing with.
ward
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ward and George
40 years,
yet strangers before
the law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ward Stewart
ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>>>It's strange that you use the bible as a reference. I am not a biblical
>>>scholar but I recall the bible says something about ADAM AND EVE, not
>>>ADAM AND STEVE.
>>
>>
>>Here we have the very apogee of scholarship and
>>profound knowlege of thge human dilemma and the
>>role of God in the universe.
>>
>>IF your odd assumptions are correct and God did
>>indeed "make" Adam and Eve -- why are you so sure
>>that he did not also make Adam and Steve -- did he
>>not make roses and weeds, or are homosexuals
>>somehow to be excluded from the creation you claim
>>to believe in.
>>
>>ward
>We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
>appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
>the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
>have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
>argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
>it is meant to be...Fair enough?
>Adam
If one is to believe in the literal babble there
is a problem in your "thought."
Since Adam and Eve were created alone and there
was no one else anywhere in sight how might either
of them have expressed homophile feelings.
If you accept the absurdity of the literal
creation there is no possibility of their having
been Adam and Steve --
SO WHAT?
This is a great non-sense and stupidity, the very
lowest common denominator of discussion and
debate. Get a clue!
TomaHawk
>
> We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
> appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
> the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
> have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
> argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
> it is meant to be...Fair enough?
>
> Adam
Adam,
Perhaps you can clarify something for me. In Genesis 4, Eve gives birth
to two male children, and none other are mentioned. After killing Abel,
Cain is cursed by god in verse 15: "And the Lord said unto him,
Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him
sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him
should kill him."
If Adam, Eve and Cain were the only people on earth, who else was there
to kill Cain?
In Verse 16, Cain went to dwell in the land of Nod, found a wife and had
a child, Enoch. Where did the people of Nod come from since they were
not the children of Adam and Eve? Or were they and Cain committed
incest?
If god did not create these people, and Genesis suggests he didn't, who
did create them?
Is it bible or babble?
TomaHawk
--
Love is contagious....We get it from each other. Ziggy
John Sanger
In article <33250323...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ad...@poboxes.com writes:
>
>We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
>appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
>the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
>have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
>argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
>it is meant to be...Fair enough?
>
But your book of babble is only a collection of fictions and fables often
stolen from other societies.....
That makes it worthless ....
clueless is as clueless does!
adam1==clueless==ignoramus
I suspect this individual is T Adam Matthews with a Netcruiser account at
Netcom.
John Sanger
In article <3331b4d7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ad...@poboxes.com writes:
>On Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:46:59 GMT, wste...@hi.net (Ward Stewart)
>scribed:
>
>>ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>It's strange that you use the bible as a reference. I am not a biblical
>>>>>scholar but I recall the bible says something about ADAM AND EVE, not
>>>>>ADAM AND STEVE.
>
>>>>indeed "make" Adam and Eve -- why are you so sure
>>>>that he did not also make Adam and Steve -- did he
>>>>not make roses and weeds, or are homosexuals
>>>>somehow to be excluded from the creation you claim
>>>>to believe in.
>>>>
>>>>ward
>>
>>>appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
>>>the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
>>>have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
>>>argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
>>>it is meant to be...Fair enough?
>>
>>
>>
>>If one is to believe in the literal babble there
>>is a problem in your "thought."
>>
>>Since Adam and Eve were created alone and there
>>was no one else anywhere in sight how might either
>>of them have expressed homophile feelings.
>>
>>If you accept the absurdity of the literal
>>creation there is no possibility of their having
>>been Adam and Steve --
>>
>>SO WHAT?
>>
>>This is a great non-sense and stupidity, the very
>>lowest common denominator of discussion and
>>debate. Get a clue!
>>
>>ward
>
>Translation: I'm loosing my ass on this one. Better try to shut it off!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Quit if you like. You're not very intelligent anyway...No sport here!
>-
Translation: I have lost the argument and cannot continue....
So get a clue.... T Adam Matthews.....
clueless is as clueless does!
adam1==clueless==ignoramus
--
Ward Stewart
ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
Ward said --
>>
>>If one is to believe in the literal babble there
>>is a problem in your "thought."
>>
>>Since Adam and Eve were created alone and there
>>was no one else anywhere in sight how might either
>>of them have expressed homophile feelings.
>>
>>If you accept the absurdity of the literal
>>creation there is no possibility of their having
>>been Adam and Steve --
>>
>>SO WHAT?
>>
>>This is a great non-sense and stupidity, the very
>>lowest common denominator of discussion and
>>debate. Get a clue!
>>
>>ward
Adam1 gathered up his resources, intellectual and
emotional and shot back with this crushing
rejoinder ---
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Translation: I'm loosing my ass on this one. Better try to shut it off!
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Quit if you like. You're not very intelligent anyway...No sport here!
>-
>------------------------------------
>"Adam and Eve" NOT "Adam and Steve"
> (Oppose Homosexual Marriages)
ROTFL --
Declare victory and leave the field -- dishonest
and "not very intellegent anyway." At least not
when the audience is watching and is able to so
clearly see that you are a horses ass.
ward
*****************************************************************
"Jesus preached and talked against a whole gamut of sins. He
never mentioned homosexuality at all. Only once did Saint Paul
mention homosexuality, and it was in a long list of things like
selfishness and pride, and in the next verse he talks about
forgiveness. ... "
--Jimmy Carter in a Jan. 10 interview with the San Francisco
Chronicle.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 09:30:09 GMT, fes...@ozark.com said:
>Hey! Your nose is on the end of your face? Can you show me how you tell
>what the end of your face is? I will tell you what...I would like to
>see your nose, being as it is on the end of your face! I saw a two
>headed snake in the carnival once but I think I would just as soon see
>your face and your nose on the end of it. Is they any chance that you
>will come and be in Arkansas any time soon?
Oh my, another sad product of inbreeding!
Ross Archer
On Fri, 07 Mar 1997 21:55:49 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>As is usually the case with the intellectually challenged, and it seems
>more frequently with the sexually abnormal segment there of, we find
>them concerned more with the audience than the idea...form has become
>more important than substance. It may be the mindset promulgated by
>constant defeat, but more likely it is what it seems to be...fundamental
>Ignorance!
>
You still haven't answered why you consider performing oral sex to
disqualify a person (a woman, for example) for military service,
and that such a person (a woman for example) would not be accepted
among the troops.
You have made this claim, and refuse to back it up.
I think you should back up your assertion. It sounds pretty
dumb to thinking people.
>Adam
Mike Hammond
Harry Estes (tes...@mnsinc.com) wrote:
: Kenneth Chisholm wrote:
(regarding John Wayne)
: > Bullshit. How much respect he deserves is illustrated when he went to
: > a vet hospital to entertain wounded in the full cowboy costume. He
: > walked in expecting every man to be oh so impressed by his appearance.
: >
: > They booed him out of the room.
: > To those men, he was the man who sold them a lie, about "manliness"
: > and "patriotism". They swallowed it and enlisted and suffered for it.
: I`ll tell you something else. My grandfather served in WW2.
Wow, my father served in WWII as well. So what?
(and what does yer grandfather being in WW2 have to do with homosexuals in
the military??? )
<snip>
: He always said that we could have won in
: Vietnam
One wonders why we were there in the first place. We weren't attacked.
America wasn't in danger of being overun by the Vietcong. The goverment
(or more likely the Johnson administration?) had no reason to draft its
citizens for a war that we had no business being in. That's why there was
so much opposition. It wasn't a war of Justice or Patriotism.
: if it had`nt been for a bunch of little sissies who were too
: cowardly to serve their country and instead bravely protested at home
: and abroad. (billy clinton) small letters intended!!!!
Sounds like sour grapes on yer grandfather's part.
There were people in the US who felt the war was unnecessary and unjust.
Perhaps yer grandfather can enlighten us on just what he thought the
people in Vietnam were fighting for.
There is a very large number of people in power on the
right (Buchanan is one example) who avoided the war.
Why don't you save your vitriol for them?
--
Cardinal Fang ho...@access.digex.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps?
FC 1.2 FCF~m3a/FRRs3r A++ C-/* D++ H M- P+/- R T++ W Z Sm#/Sm++ RLGP a+
cd++ d? e++ f/f+ h+ i+ p~-/* sm#
Ross Archer
On Sun, 09 Mar 1997 01:59:36 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:31:37 GMT, arc...@netgate.net (Ross Archer)
>scribed:
>The only thing that sounds dumb to the thinking people here is you! Do
>you know what the acronym UCMJ stands for? Now I've backed it up...you
>look it up. Do a little reading and you wont have to ask so many
>questions! Even peripherally learned is better than totally clueless.
>
>Damn, why do they let these people operate machinery!
>
>Adam
>"Adam and Eve" NOT "Adam and Steve"
> (Oppose Homosexual Marriages)
You are still avoiding the question. UCMJ = Uniform Code of Military
Justice. So what? What does this have to do with oral sex being
linked to being unfit for military duty. You must cite.
John Sanger
In article <3325176e...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ad...@poboxes.com writes:
>On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:31:37 GMT, arc...@netgate.net (Ross Archer)
>scribed:
>
>>On Fri, 07 Mar 1997 21:55:49 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>>
>>>As is usually the case with the intellectually challenged, and it seems
>>>more frequently with the sexually abnormal segment there of, we find
>>>them concerned more with the audience than the idea...form has become
>>>more important than substance. It may be the mindset promulgated by
>>>constant defeat, but more likely it is what it seems to be...fundamental
>>>Ignorance!
>>>
>>You still haven't answered why you consider performing oral sex to
>>disqualify a person (a woman, for example) for military service,
>>and that such a person (a woman for example) would not be accepted
>>among the troops.
>>You have made this claim, and refuse to back it up.
>>I think you should back up your assertion. It sounds pretty
>>dumb to thinking people.
>
>
>The only thing that sounds dumb to the thinking people here is you! Do
>you know what the acronym UCMJ stands for? Now I've backed it up...you
>look it up. Do a little reading and you wont have to ask so many
>questions! Even peripherally learned is better than totally clueless.
>
>Damn, why do they let these people operate machinery!
>
Oh, T Adam Matthews, UCMJ==Uniform Code of Military Justice.... which is
a joke in and of itself because there is no justice in the military
court's marshalls....
Now you have not "backed up" anything... you are weaseling....
Thinking people want to know... "backup" your assertion or shut the fuck
up!!!
PerR...@post2.tele.dk
This seems funny to a Dane.
In Denmark, all boys are conscripted into the Armed Forces - unless they
are physically or psychologically disabled, and unless they take a
number that exempt them from military service, and unless they are still
at school [but after i.e. their Master Degree in Medical Science, they
still have to go].
All boys. Gay boys too.
- But of course, in Denmark, two persons of the same sex can intermarry
...
<ad...@poboxes.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 09:31:37 GMT, arc...@netgate.net (Ross Archer)
> scribed:
>
> >On Fri, 07 Mar 1997 21:55:49 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
> >
> >>As is usually the case with the intellectually challenged, and it seems
> >>more frequently with the sexually abnormal segment there of, we find
> >>them concerned more with the audience than the idea...form has become
> >>more important than substance. It may be the mindset promulgated by
> >>constant defeat, but more likely it is what it seems to be...fundamental
> >>Ignorance!
> >>
> >You still haven't answered why you consider performing oral sex to
> >disqualify a person (a woman, for example) for military service,
> >and that such a person (a woman for example) would not be accepted
> >among the troops.
> >You have made this claim, and refuse to back it up.
> >I think you should back up your assertion. It sounds pretty
> >dumb to thinking people.
>
>
> The only thing that sounds dumb to the thinking people here is you! Do
> you know what the acronym UCMJ stands for? Now I've backed it up...you
> look it up. Do a little reading and you wont have to ask so many
> questions! Even peripherally learned is better than totally clueless.
>
> Damn, why do they let these people operate machinery!
>
curt...@nr.infi.net
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ward and George
> 40 years,
> yet strangers before
> the law.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
couldn't grasp the idea of dramatic verbal expression. But, he was very
much in the public eye and thus, an inspiration to many. I also have the
opinion that all humans deserve to be treated like equal humans... period.
Maybe I'm ridiculous, but after all, it's only my opinion.
--
It is unlawful to use this email address for unsolicited commercial email
per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a US $500 charge for
reviewing & deleting each unsolicited commercial email. Sending
unsolicited
commercial email to my email address denotes acceptance of these terms.
My
posting messages to UseNet neither grants consent to receiving nor is
intended to solicit commercial email.
John Sanger
In article <332dfa02...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ad...@poboxes.com writes:
says absolutely nothing of value....
clueless is as clueless does!
adam1==clueless==ignoramus==LIAR
Ward Stewart
arc...@netgate.net (Ross Archer) wrote:
>You are still avoiding the question. UCMJ = Uniform Code of Military
>Justice. So what? What does this have to do with oral sex being
>linked to being unfit for military duty. You must cite.
Of course it has NOTHING to do with military duty
or much of anything else. -- the UCMJ is a body of
laws and the nature of laws is that they change.
What we have here is a military supposedly devoted
to advancing the cause of liberty, political
freedom and human rights. -- without a backward
glance or (it would appear) a second thought they
are ready to abridge the rights of the citizens to
advance their rights.
Military Music is not the only oxymoronic
structure in the discussion.
ward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It has been said often in this debate that God created Adam
and Eve, not Adam and Steve. If you accept the idea that
God created the earth and all on it you must accept the idea
that God created daisies and roses. He created blondes and
brunettes,the left handed and the right handed. We are all
Gods children and an effort to limit the almighty to just
your own family is a dangerous idea, indeed a heretical one.
uncle ward
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bruce Garrett
ad...@poboxes.com wants us to show him...
A> We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
A> appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
A> the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
A> have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
A> argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
A> it is meant to be...Fair enough?
Tell us where Cain's wife came from or accept that the bible
leaves out a few creation events...fair enough...?
---
-Bruce Garrett \ http://www.pobox.com/~bgarrett
Cockeysville, MD. / \ When the bird and the bird book disagree, believe
the bird
Ward Stewart
ho...@access5.digex.net (Mike Hammond) wrote:
>Harry Estes (tes...@mnsinc.com) wrote:
>: if it had`nt been for a bunch of little sissies who were too
>: cowardly to serve their country and instead bravely protested at home
>: and abroad. (billy clinton) small letters intended!!!!
>Sounds like sour grapes on yer grandfather's part.
>There were people in the US who felt the war was unnecessary and unjust.
>Perhaps yer grandfather can enlighten us on just what he thought the
>people in Vietnam were fighting for.
>There is a very large number of people in power on the
>right (Buchanan is one example) who avoided the war.
>Why don't you save your vitriol for them?
Aloha Friends --
I have often wondered myself --
This is one of my favorite gripes -- on the one
hand, we have a president who, in his youth, did
not believe in the war that was being fought, did
not believe that ANY mother's son should go
unwanted to Vietnam and die there, thought that
the war was wrong -- he avoided the draft in legal
ways and is vilified in the matter.
Then the right wing looks at Dan Quayle and gets
all warm and fuzzy -- here we have a man who
believed in the war, believed that our cause was
just and justifiable, he thought that an army
should be drafted and be sent over the south-east
Asia to fight and die. HE supported the was -- he
avoided the draft and is considered to be a hero.
Ward
Conrad Sabatier
In article <5ft2lo$m...@news3.digex.net>,
ho...@access5.digex.net (Mike Hammond) writes:
[ re: Vietnam ]
> One wonders why we were there in the first place. We weren't attacked.
> America wasn't in danger of being overun by the Vietcong. The goverment
> (or more likely the Johnson administration?) had no reason to draft its
> citizens for a war that we had no business being in. That's why there was
> so much opposition. It wasn't a war of Justice or Patriotism.
It wasn't Johnson who got us into it. Think earlier.
Johnson, in fact, suffered no small private anguish at sending
people off to die in a war that was clearly pointless.
Things aren't always as simple sometimes as we wish.
P.S. Give up? It was the late, great, all-but-canonized *JFK* who
got us into that particular mess.
--
Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
--Outland Navigator--
> >scribed:
> >
> >>On Fri, 07 Mar 1997 21:55:49 GMT, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>As is usually the case with the intellectually challenged, and it seems
> >>>more frequently with the sexually abnormal segment there of, we find
> >>>them concerned more with the audience than the idea...form has become
> >>>more important than substance. It may be the mindset promulgated by
> >>>constant defeat, but more likely it is what it seems to be...fundamental
> >>>Ignorance!
> >>>
> >>You still haven't answered why you consider performing oral sex to
> >>disqualify a person (a woman, for example) for military service,
> >>and that such a person (a woman for example) would not be accepted
> >>among the troops.
> >>You have made this claim, and refuse to back it up.
> >>I think you should back up your assertion. It sounds pretty
> >>dumb to thinking people.
> >
> >
> >The only thing that sounds dumb to the thinking people here is you! Do
> >you know what the acronym UCMJ stands for? Now I've backed it up...you
> >look it up. Do a little reading and you wont have to ask so many
> >questions! Even peripherally learned is better than totally clueless.
> >
> >Damn, why do they let these people operate machinery!
> >
>
> a joke in and of itself because there is no justice in the military
> court's marshalls....
>
> Now you have not "backed up" anything... you are weaseling....
>
> Thinking people want to know... "backup" your assertion or shut the fuck
> up!!!
>
>
> adam1==clueless==ignoramus
>
Excuse me John,
While in Recon Training.[@ Survival School] we had one surface
that was a latent closet, whatever, Shit his perverbable pants
when the time came,,, learning to kill....swiftly..complete...
He failed, flunked out and was shit canned, last we heard at
the end of training, the underling commited himself...
***************************************************************************
Aneon-6.
Free Navigator.
TomaHawk
ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
>
> On 9 Mar 1997 15:44:57 GMT, bgar...@pobox.com (Bruce Garrett) scribed:
>
> > ad...@poboxes.com wants us to show him...
> >
> >
> >A> We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
> >A> appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
> >A> the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
> >A> have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
> >A> argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
> >A> it is meant to be...Fair enough?
> >
> > Tell us where Cain's wife came from or accept that the bible
> >leaves out a few creation events...fair enough...?
>
> Eve is there, just as plain as the nose on your face.
>
> To discuss what was left out is to speculate. My experiance has been
> that it's best not to do that when the matter involves the beliefs of
> millions of people.
>
> Go with what you know for sure!
>
> >---
> > -Bruce Garrett \ http://www.pobox.com/~bgarrett
> > Cockeysville, MD. / \ When the bird and the bird book disagree, believe
> > the bird
Adam,
*I* don't know for sure. You're basing *your* faith on a collection of
oral traditions passed on for generations before being written. That
tradition as recorded is filled with contradictions and ambiguities. It
was written and re-written to reflect the wants of the power centers of
the times. See "Who Wrote the Bible?", Richard Elliott Friedman,
Perennial Library, Harper & Row 1989 ISBN 0-06-097214-9 for a cogent
dissection.
John Sanger
In article <33494ca1...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> ad...@poboxes.com writes:
>On 9 Mar 1997 15:44:57 GMT, bgar...@pobox.com (Bruce Garrett) scribed:
>
>> ad...@poboxes.com wants us to show him...
>>
>>
>>A> We'll show you where the names of Adam and Eve and their relationship
>>A> appear in the biblical writings...You show us were in the same writings
>>A> the names Adam and Steve and their relationship appear and then we will
>>A> have something to discuss. Until then...you're obligated to accept our
>>A> argument that Adam and Eve and their style of relationship, is the way
>>A> it is meant to be...Fair enough?
>>
>> Tell us where Cain's wife came from or accept that the bible
>>leaves out a few creation events...fair enough...?
>
>
>It may in fact do that...but you can't deny that the part about Adam and
>Eve is there, just as plain as the nose on your face.
>
>To discuss what was left out is to speculate. My experiance has been
>that it's best not to do that when the matter involves the beliefs of
>millions of people.
>
>Go with what you know for sure!
>
Well, T Adam Matthews, it is known for sure that the book of babble is a
collection of fictions and fables many of which were lifted from other
older societies.... and all of which are the creation of mankind....
A totally worthless book of crapola....
That is what is known for sure regarding your wonderous book that does
not even make good paper to be used in the outhouse....
clueless is as clueless does!
adam1==clueless==ignoramus==LIAR
John Sanger
Ummm, Conrad.... think again.... It was Eisenhower who sent the military
advisors to Vietnam.... It was JFK who issued the order that armed these
advisors and then JFK also issued the order to fire back when fired
upon...
It was LBJ who escallated the troop count and the mission to that of a
war.... But it was Robert S. McNamara who was in control of all of this
and the world dominance order that he belonged to.... LBJ was all for
pulling out and the Democratic Party would not allow him that option due
to the pressure from this organization that "Mac the Knife" belonged
to....
When McNamara left the office of Secretary of Defense, he later became
the worldwide head of that organization.....
Ward Stewart
con...@neosoft.com (Conrad Sabatier) wrote:
>In article <5ft2lo$m...@news3.digex.net>,
> ho...@access5.digex.net (Mike Hammond) writes:
>[ re: Vietnam ]
>> One wonders why we were there in the first place. We weren't attacked.
>> America wasn't in danger of being overun by the Vietcong. The goverment
>> (or more likely the Johnson administration?) had no reason to draft its
>> citizens for a war that we had no business being in. That's why there was
>> so much opposition. It wasn't a war of Justice or Patriotism.
>It wasn't Johnson who got us into it. Think earlier.
>Johnson, in fact, suffered no small private anguish at sending
>people off to die in a war that was clearly pointless.
That is a little unfair -- Kennedy, Johnson AND
Nixon, no matter what you may think of them, ALL
anguished, quite properly, over that whole dicy
matter.
Each had a peculiar delusion in the matter --
Kennedy believed that it could be easily settled,
resolved -- he was wrong. Johnson believed that
he could negotiate with Ho Chi Min after he had
bullied him a bit first -- HE was wrong.
Nixon believed that HE could negotiate after he
had bullied them a little more and bombed
Cambodia, HE was wrong but HE was clever enough
to announce victory and leave the field.
A tragid enterprise and not one that can be blamed
on any one leader.
ward
>Things aren't always as simple sometimes as we wish.
>P.S. Give up? It was the late, great, all-but-canonized *JFK* who
>got us into that particular mess.
>--
>Conrad Sabatier http://www.neosoft.com/~conrads
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:11:14 -0500, Peredur <mab...@sprynet.com> said:
>Thus, Thracians are fathers or mothers in spirit to its
>Sir,
> I believe you make too much of being gay- it is a gift, it is sacred,
>but it is not superior nor inferior to any other expression of human
>diversity. One does not possess character because of one's sexuality.
>Also, you fail to distinguish between spiritual training and injustice.
>While it is true that humans learn from experiences, treating a person
>"like shit" is contrary to the tenets of healthy spiritual practice
>designed to awaken them.
Hi, Peredur. I am in the process of re-establishing the dignity of
the homosexual spirit...I in no way said or implied that we GayFolk
are superior. However, I am instilling a pride in ourselves similar
to how Marines do it...for those who find my way helpful. Marines are
no better than any others...but they are rigorously trained to be
superior in certain activities...as fighters enabled to withstand
rigorous trials at war, including not breaking under torture.
There are numerous religious orders--both occidental and
oriental--that use extreme forms of deprivation or pain to achieve
mystical states. Flagellation, semi-starvation, intense meditation,
isolation of the senses...are just some examples. While this is not
for everyone...it does indeed work for certain types of devotees.
I am implying that God's role for Hellenes is to become spiritual
leaders--or at least inspirers--for the human race. Her/His allowance
of the human race to persecute and degrade us is parallel to the
deprivation and abuse used to train soldiers into Marinehood...as well
as certain stoic, ascetic, and deprivation techniques among numerous
religious sects. I'm not saying we want it this way...but it does
make a lot of sense out of what would otherwise be perceived as
absolutely obscene and pointless. Whether we like it or not, we are
being *molded* into leadership. I believe that in the spirit world,
before our incarnation into this life...a number of us, as souls, did
choose the warrior path of the homosexual.
And it was thus our role, our path of training, so to speak, to be
ostracized, persecuted, spit upon, and joked at by the masses. But
the great spiritual Marines due to emerge from such intense, prolonged
training, will be something for all the world to admire. But you may
take this or leave this as you wish. This is a philosophy of pride,
to re-energize ourselves, as the crisis of AIDS subsides, and our
newfound freedom will strike us emotionally as almost a powerful,
mystical experience...a kiss of love from God Her/Himself...and a
signal to march ahead and conquer The Beast Of Homophobia, at last!
---
Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
Public dialogue only, no spamming.
Hostile replies will be publicly posted.
John De Salvio
In article <332dfa02...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, ad...@poboxes.com wrote:
> By god if anyone knows something about "weaseling: it's you...your
> complete usenet life is founded on it. You find clear and precise
> answers such as I gave to the inquirery to be confusing and beyond your
> comprehension. Don't blame your intellectial short comings on me, TOAD!
Clear and precise answers?
CLEAR AND PRECISE ANSWERS???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That's RICH!
--
John
NOTE: "From" address is deliberately wrong.
My correct e-mail address is:
John Sanger
In article <33260a59...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Ad...@poboxes.com writes:
>On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 05:38:00 GMT, tedd...@netcom.com (John Sanger)
>scribed:
>in 5.5 BILLION opinions!
>
But it is the truth... and not some trumped up crapola.....
>What you think is of importance to you only...and I'm not to damn sure
>about your interest in it since it usually consist of lies or gross
>mis-statements.
>
I do not lie, T Adam Matthews..... as you always do and I do not post
mis-statements as you always do.....
You have yet to post anything that is supported by anything but your
bogus opinion.....
clueless is as clueless does!
adam1==clueless==ignoramus==LIAR
--
Bruce Garrett
ad...@poboxes.com may in fact...
>> Tell us where Cain's wife came from or accept that the bible
>> leaves out a few creation events...fair enough...?
A> It may in fact do that...but you can't deny that the part about Adam and
A> Eve is there, just as plain as the nose on your face.
Haven't read much of it have we? You know they say that most
bigots who scan the bible for justification of their anti-Gay hatred
wouldn't bother to touch one otherwise, unless they needed a beer coaster.
A> To discuss what was left out is to speculate.
To insist that all that's in it is all there is to the story is to
speculate.
A> My experiance has been that it's best not to do that when the matter
A> involves the beliefs of millions of people.
If a million people believed the earth was flat, would the earth be
flat?
A> Go with what you know for sure!
We know for sure the bible says Cain had a wife. We know for sure
the bible doesn't give us a clue as to where she came from. We can
speculate with a fair amount of certainty that you got bored with reading
Genesis somewhere around chapter 4.