shamanism documentary
Ezekiel Krahlin
AJ <id...@flex.net> wrote in article
<5doh7j$h...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>...
>
> I am currently producing a film on shamanism. I would like to hear from
> anyone about their experiences. To be more precise-experiences with
> incorporating your practice of shamanism into your everyday life.
> Unfortunately, I am having trouble retrieving e-mail at this time so if
> you would just reply to this newsgroup I will see it. I check here
> frequently for my research. I can read many books but actual experience
> is the most fascinating.
> Thank You
> Anna Julia
Hello, Julia. I am a contemporary shaman...and incorporating my
visions and spirit guidances into everyday life was the most difficult
challenge I've ever know. But now, all is in harmony. I am, by the
way, gay (I prefer the word "Thracian"). While I don't surround
myself with special clothing, equipment, and airs of superiority...I
do practice magick. However, I deal directly with the evolution of
the soul...for which one must drop attachments to material accessories
in order to break through to that level.
What amuses me is all these drum-beating, shamanistic "men's"
groups...none of which, as far as I know...acknowledge that much of
the traditions they borrow from came out of homosexual origins. Most
(if not all) Native American shamans were homosexual...and the same
holds true in many cases around the world. Is is unfortunate that,
due to the Christianization of most of these shaman cultures, that
these very cultures have also been tainted with homophobia, and have
forgotten the homosexual roots of their spiritual guides here on
earth. But I believe that historical ignorance will soon be
corrected, as more and more societies drop their homophobic laws.
> Ceridwen Films
> Austin, TX
---
To reach me, remove "_Z" from my e-mail address.
J West
someone wrote:
"(if not all) Native American shamans were homosexual.."
False.
plain and simple, not true.
Joe West
Tsalagi
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:41:40 -0800, J West <jww...@youngminds.com>
imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
Well, let's see where *your* coming from. Do you believe *any* Native
American shamans prior to white man's invasions, were homosexual?
The horrible "Christianization" of the new world also brought with it,
a virulent streak of homophobia...so that even Native Americans lost
touch with their own brave shamans and warriors, etc., who were
homosexual...and proud members of their tribes, and greatly respected.
Because of this unfortunate invasion, Native Americans have also
become homophobic, in this present era.
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Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:41:40 -0800, J West <jww...@youngminds.com>
imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>someone wrote:
>"(if not all) Native American shamans were homosexual.."
>
>False.
>plain and simple, not true.
>Joe West
>Tsalagi
I quote from another's message in another newsgroup, since what he
said is most relevant to your own statements:
>Do a bit more reading. Some native american tribes considered
>homosexuals to be "closer to the gods/ancestors" and often made
>them spiritual leaders. They even permitted homosexual marriges.
>John Boswell's scholarly work on homosexual marriages through time
>would be a good place to learn some of this. Did you know the
>Roman Catholic Church used to marry homosexual couples and at the
>time they were some of the few Christain marriages performed soley
>for love?
>
>I think our own social feelings towards homosexuality make it
>hard to believe others have thought differently. They did and
>do! :)
Nikoosi Darksky
On Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:00:20 GMT, Chief_T...@Athenia.New (Ezekiel
Krahlin) wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:41:40 -0800, J West <jww...@youngminds.com>
>imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>
>>someone wrote:
>>"(if not all) Native American shamans were homosexual.."
>>
>>False.
>>plain and simple, not true.
>>Joe West
>>Tsalagi
>
>I quote from another's message in another newsgroup, since what he
>said is most relevant to your own statements:
>
>>Do a bit more reading. Some native american tribes considered
>>homosexuals to be "closer to the gods/ancestors" and often made
>>them spiritual leaders. They even permitted homosexual marriges.
>>John Boswell's scholarly work on homosexual marriages through time
>>would be a good place to learn some of this.
If I would be allowed to throw my two cents worth in here, I would
very much like to respond to this message. Being gay, and a Native
American, this is all of great interest to me. I do Native American
research professionally, but not involving the subjects talked about
here. However, I have run across many referrences to shamanism and
homosexuality in my research, and have been lucky enough to have an
understanding and open familiy who have always been willing to allow
me to query them about such things. Tasalgi is right, not ALL shaman
are or were homosexual. I have also not found or heard that any
tribes I have studied felt that homosexuals were "closer to the
gods/ancestors". Homosexuals were often shaman because they lacked
the responsibility of family, specifically the obligation of caring
for and feeding children, and so were more free to pursue the
all-consuming spirituality and responsibility of being a shaman. In
many ways, including spiritually, homosexuals were indeed considered
"special" in many tribes, and at the very least they were not
considered unusual or unnatural. In many tribes, homosexual
"marriages" were permitted and fully accepted. However, being
homosexual did not guarantee one of becoming a shaman, and not all
shaman were homosexual.
On the subject of your research, books can sometimes be a very good
source, but a book is only as good as it's author. I have found that
many pro-gay authors seem to get overly zealous in thier desire to
make homosexuality seem more historically "important" than what it may
truly have been, (particularly where Native American culture is
concerned), and sometimes things get a little "exaggerated". Talking
with and interviewing other Native Americans, spending time chatting
with other members of the various Indian Nations, listening to my
Grandfathers, and reading historical publications written BY Native
Americans has always been the best and most important sources for my
research. California is not widely known for it's Native American
culture or resources. If you are serious about your research, you
might consider an actual vacation to Oklahoma, South Dakota, or New
Mexico (depending on the tribes you wish to research). The Native
American historical societies, and the Indian Nations in all three
states are always very happy to provide endless lists of people to
talk to, publications and documents to read, and resources of
historical FACT. I have spent countless hours in the libraries of
the Cherokee, Choctaw, and Osage Nations, as well the Tulsa Public
Library, and the Indian Nations Historical Society archives in
Oklahoma. You will not find any of the resources available at those
places on-line, or available anywhere else.
Good luck, and thanks for reading this.
Nikoosi Darksky
Peredur
Ezekiel Krahlin wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 15:41:40 -0800, J West <jww...@youngminds.com>
> imparted this delicious tidbit of wisdom:
>
> >someone wrote:
> >"(if not all) Native American shamans were homosexual.."
> >
> >False.
> >plain and simple, not true.
> >Joe West
> >Tsalagi
>
Peredur
Ezekiel Krahlin
Thanks...I wil look into this. I may soon be corresponding with some
Lakota groups on this issue. And I will bring back information to
share with all.
---
(Hail, Athenia...brave new nation!)
Please keep our dialogues public; private mail by request only.
Hostile private replies will be re-posted in the public arena.
Ezekiel Krahlin
On Tue, 04 Mar 1997 00:46:21 GMT, dar...@swbell.net (Nikoosi Darksky)
said:
>If I would be allowed to throw my two cents worth in here, I would
>very much like to respond to this message. Being gay, and a Native
>American, this is all of great interest to me.
It is a pleasure to hear your voice in this, Nikoosi. I have been
strongly influenced by numerous world views, not the least of which is
some of the Native American beliefs, including the Innuit. I do not
mimic or claim any special Native American gifts--as that is in bad
taste--but I readily acknowledge the wonderful and beneficial
influence of your people. I just finished reading a delightful book
by a Lakota Sioux, Lame Deer...what a great human being! He travels
all over the globe and meets with shamans of other cultures, including
the Sami (Laplanders)...in preparation for the new era we are
entering, which is to restore the dignity of native peoples
everywhere...as well as set right a lot of other wrongs. Isn't it
incredible for Canada to have returned such a huge chunk of its land
to one of their native peoples? I sure with the U.S.A. would do that,
too...it would only shower us all with many spiritual blessings.
>Tasalgi is right, not ALL shaman
>are or were homosexual.
<snip>
>However, being
>homosexual did not guarantee one of becoming a shaman, and not all
>shaman were homosexual.
Thanks for your eloquent clarification.
>If you are serious about your research, you
>might consider an actual vacation to Oklahoma, South Dakota, or New
>Mexico (depending on the tribes you wish to research). The Native
>American historical societies, and the Indian Nations in all three
>states are always very happy to provide endless lists of people to
>talk to, publications and documents to read, and resources of
>historical FACT. I have spent countless hours in the libraries of
>the Cherokee, Choctaw, and Osage Nations, as well the Tulsa Public
>Library, and the Indian Nations Historical Society archives in
>Oklahoma. You will not find any of the resources available at those
>places on-line, or available anywhere else.
> Good luck, and thanks for reading this.
No, thank you...what a pleasure to read your input! I have this
question for you, if you have the time to answer. I understand that
the infiltration of Europeans onto your land left many ugly legacies,
not the least of which is homophobia. Now, when a tribe wants to
rediscover its roots, doesn't it sometimes remain homophobic while
restoring other aspects? So that the homosexual in Native American
history may still be undervalued...even though many gay authors may
have enthusiastically overvalued their status? If this is so, I'd
also think it would vary--and maybe widely--from tribe to tribe or
nation to nation?
---
Happy Hale-Bopp, GayFolk...this star is *our* star!
http://www.fog.net/ekrahlin ekra...@fog.net
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