My PayPal HELL!
Jerry Jessop
As many of you know after "BuyAtari" promptly paid for my Atari 2700
RC Stella on Ebay my 18 month old in good standing PayPal account was
frozen. Adam is out the money and so am I, it's being held hostage by
PayPal as they only froze it after the transaction took place. You all
might want to know that NOTHING unusual went on, period, nor can they
point specifically to anything. Buyatari is a verified user, i have a
premier account with a valid verified credit card attached to it.
After many weeks and phone calls they finally responded to my email.
Attached is the entire thread, you guys tell me, am I insane? How in
the world can this be allowed to happen. PayPal users be warned!
And to you PayPal.........see you in court!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Jessop,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Your account has been restricted due to possible unauthorized
activity. In
order to remove this restriction, please send, via fax, a copy of the
items
listed below to fax number (402) 935-2045.
1. A copy of your current Driver's License
2. A copy of your most recent credit card statement
3. A copy of a utility bill
4. A copy of this email
Please note that all of the documents listed above must legibly show
your
name, account number, and address as they are listed on your PayPal
account. If they do not, you may be requested to resubmit these
documents
for review.
At this time we are also requesting additional information concerning
your
account activity.
1. Do you travel out of the United States? If so, where do you travel
(regions and /or countries)? Do you travel on business or pleasure?
2. Are you selling merchandise purchased abroad? If so, what is that
merchandise?
Once we have received this information, your account will be reviewed
once
again. You will then be contacted at the outcome of our
investigation.
Thank you for your patience and cooperation.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department
Original message follows:
-------------------------
Adam,
Thought you would like to see the email I just received from PayPal.
I'm
not
pissed off at you but rather them, what in the world is going on here?
I
get
your money and now PayPal is going to hold it for days and make me
jump
through hoops with no facts as to why the account has been restricted,
and
it's because of you apparently. I sent them a very stern response
already
as
I feel this is totally out of line. If you as the buyer is
"suspicious"
then
your account should be restricted.....not mine.
Just thought you would like to know what PayPal is up too with regards
to
you.
Glad you got the product and like it, talk to you soon and thanks
again.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: <ser...@paypal.com>
To: <jjes...@home.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:01 PM
Subject: Notification of PayPal Account Restriction
> Dear Jerry Jessop,
>
> PayPal is constantly working to eliminate the threat
> of fraud and ensure the integrity of our payment network
> by performing frequent examinations of our system.
>
> Your account has been restricted because we have received
> more than one report of suspicious behavior from your buyers.
>
> To return your account to good standing, we need you to complete
> 2 steps. First, we need to verify your identity by having
> you add and confirm a bank account. Then you may register
> a request to appeal this restriction by typing "Start appeal
> process" in the submission box below. Your request will then
> be reviewed by the PayPal Account Review Department.
>
> To add a bank account:
>
> 1. Go to the Profile subtab of the My Account tab and
> select the "Bank Account" link.
> 2. Complete the "Add Bank Account" information
>
> To Confirm your Bank Account:
>
> 1. Once you add your bank account, PayPal will make
> two small deposits into the bank account you just
> registered. These deposits should appear in your
> bank account in 2-4 business days.
>
> 2. Call your bank in 2-4 days to find out what the exact
> amounts of these two deposits are. You can also check
> your bank statement for these amounts. They will be
> listed as deposits from PayPal.com.
>
> Log into your PayPal account, and enter the exact amounts that
> were deposited into your bank.
>
> Since only the bank account's owner would have access to the
> exact amounts of the two deposits PayPal sent, this process
> ensures that you are authorized to use the funds in the bank
> account.
>
> If you have questions concerning this restriction please contact
> the Account Review Department by replying to this email.
>
> Thank you,
>
> The PayPal Account Review Department
>
crymad
Jerry Jessop wrote:
>
> At this time we are also requesting additional information concerning
> your
> account activity.
>
> 1. Do you travel out of the United States? If so, where do you travel
> (regions and /or countries)? Do you travel on business or pleasure?
> 2. Are you selling merchandise purchased abroad? If so, what is that
> merchandise?
Unbelievable. This is simply none of Paypal's business. What
arrogance.
--crymad
Jerry Jessop
That's why I had to post the stuff verbatim.....it's unbelievable what
they are asking. And of course they hold my $2,626 hostage unless I
give in.
F them!
Jerry
Buyatari
order but I thought you'd want your $ quick as possible. Just in case you
wanted to run out and buy a new car with your winnings :)
Seriously though this is just such BS. I did get an email from paypal right
after Jerry had problems. They wanted an updated phone number or my account
would be closed. So I updated it and haven't heard from them since. No they
didn't use this information to contact me.
The money I sent to Jerry was there in my account and it is now gone. Paypal
got every single last cent I owed Jerry but Jerry can't touch it. This pisses
me off.
I did find a few interesting web sites on the subject.
And the Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara County.
http://209.128.79.238/search/search.asp
Just put paypal in the search engine and take a look at their public record
with the Better Business Bureau.
It seems that Jerry is not alone in his problems with paypal.
Adam
crymad
Buyatari wrote:
>
> I did find a few interesting web sites on the subject.
>
> http://www.paypalwarning.com/
>
> And the Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara County.
>
> http://209.128.79.238/search/search.asp
>
> Just put paypal in the search engine and take a look at their public record
> with the Better Business Bureau.
This second one produces no real reports, just a notice stating, "The
Bureau's report on this company is being updated and no report is
available at this time. If you wish you may contact us again in the
future to see if an updated report is available."
By the way, here is Paypal's contact information, from the BBB site:
Company Address:
1840 Embarcadero Rd
Palo Alto, CA 94303-3308
Telephone: (402) 935-7733
Fax: (650) 251-1101
--crymad
crymad
crymad wrote:
>
> By the way, here is Paypal's contact information, from the BBB site:
>
> Company Address:
> 1840 Embarcadero Rd
> Palo Alto, CA 94303-3308
>
> Telephone: (402) 935-7733
> Fax: (650) 251-1101
And a nice toll-free one too:
--crymad
Jerry Jessop
I'll say it one more time Adam cause I feel bad that your bumming out
over the whole thing. You are not at all to blame for this and as my
Ebay feedback says, you were exceptionally prompt and professional
with the transaction and I could not have asked for anymore.
Enjoy that console, you paid for it and I am not hurting for the $$ or
the console. PayPal is the culprit and as I told you via email, this
is a public service message to everyone about them.
Thanks again Adam and don't bum out, it's all good.
Jerry
Jerry Jessop
I work 15 minutes away from them yet they refuse to allow me to come
in and legitimately ID myself as I have repeatedly offered. They want
to hide behind the "safety" of the Internet scam they have going.
I wonder if they will consider a court filing as positive ID?
Jerry
Dane L. Galden
could somehow find out what day a *bigshot* would be there.
Dane.
In article <2s6nmtouip0nqckou...@4ax.com>,
Greg Cook
lawyer, telling thme that you are more than happy to sort this problem out
with your lawyer.
I cant understand why they need such information. They should be able to
provide you with a statement as to why your accout has been on hold, and an
explanantion more than just "Suspicious behaviour".
Get a legal person to draft a letter to them, giving them 48 hours to
provide an explanantion as to why your money is on hold, after that 48 hours
threaten legal proceedings.
Keep us informed.
"Jerry Jessop" <jjes...@home.com> wrote in message
news:s1rmmt86cpuc3ljf6...@4ax.com...
Sum Guy
this issue is resolved.
Cheers
A
--
_ _ _| _ _ _| _ * _ _ ,
(_|| )(_|( (/_\/\/ (_|(_|\/(_(/_ ,~' L_|\
,-' \
see my Museum of Soviet Calculators at ( \
http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/soviet.html \ __ /
Qb: the latest retro video game! L,~' "\__/
http://www.atari2600.org/qb.html @--> v
"Jerry Jessop" <jjes...@home.com> wrote in message
news:s1rmmt86cpuc3ljf6...@4ax.com...
>
Swizzle
problems with them. Obviously one of you tripped a safety mechanism so the
system halted the account for everyone's protection. I'm sure once you send
in the required information the account will be activated again (or the feds
will show up at the door). I would much rather have Pay Pal accidentally
freezing my account than not catching someone else using my bank account #
or accessing my Pay Pal account and moving funds.
"Jerry Jessop" <jjes...@home.com> wrote in message
news:s1rmmt86cpuc3ljf6...@4ax.com...
>
John in NH
Best of luck.
John in NH
~~~
My arcade pics, links & FS/FT stuff (ALL NEW PICS - 7/12):
http://members.aol.com/rushpage2/collection.htm
DD, please, FIRE JIMY!!!
"I've been through some pretty terrible things in my life, some of which
actually happened." - Mark Twain
Geoff Oltmans
Jerry Jessop wrote:
>
> As many of you know after "BuyAtari" promptly paid for my Atari 2700
> RC Stella on Ebay my 18 month old in good standing PayPal account was
> frozen. Adam is out the money and so am I, it's being held hostage by
> PayPal as they only froze it after the transaction took place. You all
> might want to know that NOTHING unusual went on, period, nor can they
> point specifically to anything. Buyatari is a verified user, i have a
> premier account with a valid verified credit card attached to it.
>
> After many weeks and phone calls they finally responded to my email.
> Attached is the entire thread, you guys tell me, am I insane? How in
> the world can this be allowed to happen. PayPal users be warned!
>
> And to you PayPal.........see you in court!
Well, I want you to know that I just CANCELED my PayPal account, in
response to this. Certainly it could have been an honest mistake, but
from your reports it sounds as though they are completely unwilling to
amicably resolve the situation... even with a personal visit.
In my book, that's downright rotten business practice, and certainly
isn't worth the risk to me, even if it is more convenient than dealing
with mail... Not worth it to me.
I guess I'll try using BillPoint next time instead. I recommend others
do the same, and tell your friends. Maybe that will get their attention!
*Geoff!*
Jerry Jessop
I agree with your general statement but IMHO PayPal crossed way over
the line.
1: My account was good for 18 months. They had sent me small checks in
the past and mailed me a new password a month prior.
2: They have a verified credit card on file for me.
3: I upgraded the account a month prior.
4: Why wait until my money arrives to hold it hostage? They cannot
tell me why or what triggered the hold.
5: Did you read what they are asking me to do? I provided less
personal info to buy my house! What countries do I visit, and for
business or pleasure? Fax them my bills and drivers license? Are they
kidding.
6: As I have offered to present myself in person to their office 15
minutes away and confirm my identity (refused by them) I know they are
not serious about my identity being an issue.
The fraud that I'm trying to prevent is their fraud on me, not vice
versa.
Jerry
AtariAge
Just curious, and maybe I missed it, but have you talked to them on
the phone? What do they say when you ask to speak to someone who can
do something about it. I'd probably march down there as well, whether
they want you to or not, their requests are totally out of line.
FWIW, I've used PayPal many times and never had a problem. But this
certainly scares me and I don't think I'd use it for a large
transaction such as this. I really like the service as it's intended,
I hope they get their act straightened out.
Let us know what happens.
Alex
On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 17:10:10 GMT, Jerry Jessop <jjes...@home.com>
wrote:
John in NH
>FWIW, I've used PayPal many times and never had a problem. But this
>certainly scares me and I don't think I'd use it for a large
>transaction such as this. I really like the service as it's intended,
>I hope they get their act straightened out.
All I can add here is that I had an incident with my business' credit card
processing company one time. A company had paid in advance for my services -
about $4,500. The card company refused to authorize the transaction. From
what they explained, they have to pay the bank then the card holder pays them -
they act as a guarantor - and didn't want to do that with one large charge such
as this. They claim it's not uncommon for CC companies to deny large charges
such as that. I've no idea how true that is, however.
In short, I had to refund the purchase and get a check from my customer. Of
course, the CC company still charged me for "handling" the money - both coming
and going. And, no, there was nothing in the TOS with them that prohibited
charges of a certain amount or greater. They said they do that on a
case-to-case basis. How's that for fair?
Is it unfair and does it suck? Surely. But that what's big companies have the
power do - fuck you up the ass. Sometimes they do it.
:_/
Mark Androvich
After reading about Jerry's problem, and doing some investigation into
PayPal complaints posted on other Web sites, I, too, decided to cancel my
account. I don't like the way they handle personal information, and I don't
like the fact that they can freeze accounts for little or no reason. I'm
surprised that more eBay buyers haven't figured out how to scam people using
PayPal. They use the service to make payment, receive the goods, then file a
complaint. The complaint freezes the account, so the seller loses access to
the money paid. Meanwhile, the buyer keeps the goods (and might also be able
to figure out a way to avoid paying the money as well by closing out the
account, according to what I've read). I'll stick with personal checks and
money orders without the middleman, thank you.
Guess what? They won't let me cancel until the "all bank transfers have been
completed." That makes sense, except that there are no outstanding bank
transfers! All my transactions have already been completed according to my
account information! If they weren't completed, I could cancel them, but I
cannot as the money has supposedly been taken out of my bank account and
transfered to the seller. So why, then, won't let me cancel my PayPal
account? No response from customer service yet...
"Geoff Oltmans" <oltm...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:3B6C13BB...@hiwaay.net...
Bojay1997
If it helps, there's a guy over on the arcade game collecting newsgroup who
took Paypal to small claims this week and won. They apparently sent some weak
lawyer who literally had no defense for them. The issue in that case was that
Paypal charged this guy's account for like $400 due to an alleged computer
glitch.
link...@spammerswillbeexecuted.ptd.net
While I fully support taking PayPal to court over this, I feel I
should mention something. IIRC, Small Claims Court is for
matters of $500 or less. This auction is concerning a fee of
~$2700 or something like that.
It's good to know PayPal isn't hiring Johnnie Cochran, but you
will have to take this to a larger court.
Aaron B.
--
Eagerly awaiting the DVD release of "Earth vs. Soup"
C Schell
is $5000.00
Chad
--
============================================
Chad Schell
Want to play rare games on Atari 2600s or Intellivisions?
Want to write your own game? Check out the Intellivision
Intellicart and the Atari 2600 Cuttle Cart (coming soon.)
http://www.schells.com/
link...@spammerswillbeexecuted.ptd.net
>In the state of CA, where Jerry and Paypal are located, I believe the limit on
> small claims court
>is $5000.00
Excellent! I apologise for bringing the subject up then.
Jerry Jessop
Have spoken to them on the phone numerous times, they won't budge. I
believe Adam the purchaser has emailed them also.
It's so absurd I had to post the thread so people could see for
themselves and be warned :(
Jerry
On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:11:16 GMT, edi...@atariage.com (AtariAge)
wrote:
Jerry Jessop
Sean and I have been in contact and because of his post I figured this
was a good time to publicly add my story. He had a very legit problem
different than mine and completely mis-handed by them as well. I'm
discovering I'm not alone and figured you all should be warned.
Thank goodness I can do without the money and call their bluff.
Jerry
Jerry Jessop
Small claims in California is $5000, and another Californian from the
arcade group just won an $800 judgment against them.
Considering they admit it's my money, seems like a no brainer in
court.
Jerry
On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:24:21 GMT,
link...@SpammersWillBeExecuted.ptd.net
MrRetroGamer
while you don't have the use of that money, THEY do, and are profiting off the daily interest float
until they finally have to release the amount back to you. What a fraud they are! Good Luck!
Geoff Oltmans
Mark Androvich wrote:
>
> Guess what? They won't let me cancel until the "all bank transfers have been
> completed." That makes sense, except that there are no outstanding bank
> transfers! All my transactions have already been completed according to my
> account information! If they weren't completed, I could cancel them, but I
> cannot as the money has supposedly been taken out of my bank account and
> transfered to the seller. So why, then, won't let me cancel my PayPal
> account? No response from customer service yet...
Strange. I was able to close mine without incident. I just completed a
transaction through them a couple of weeks ago too.
*Geoff!*
ccc---
travel
> (regions and /or countries)? Do you travel on business or pleasure?
> 2. Are you selling merchandise purchased abroad? If so, what is
that
> merchandise?
ROFL!!! Jerry, are you sure you have a US Paypal account and not a
Russian one?
My proposal: Kick those Paypal idiots in the ass!
Cu on #rgvc,
ccc---
C-Ro...@webtv.net
Well upon reading about your ongoing problems with PayPal and the
website paypalsucks.com ..
I pulled my money out of the there and closing my PP account . See they
added another fee when i had my back turned ..1.50 charge now to mail
you a check..
Hope you make it out in one piece these people sound as worthless as my
medical insurance company ...maybe Pay-Pal can let SIGNA handle their
phonecalls their experts in Self Benefit paperwork incompetence.
cav
-Cav
Jerry Jessop
Yea, cause I'm certain the Russian one would pay me my money and not
ask insane questions while holding my $2626 hostage.
Jerry
Jerry Jessop
Thanks for all the support guys............
Jerry
Erik Mooney
>Well upon reading about your ongoing problems with PayPal and the
>website paypalsucks.com ..
>I pulled my money out of the there and closing my PP account . See they
>added another fee when i had my back turned ..1.50 charge now to mail
>you a check..
Add me to the list (though I've only used PP about five times ever)... now
closed.
ccc---
> ask insane questions while holding my $2626 hostage.
LOL
Danny Williams
> should mention something. IIRC, Small Claims Court is for
> matters of $500 or less. This auction is concerning a fee of
> ~$2700 or something like that.
>
Take them to People's Court. Show their faces on national TV. Their limit was $3,500. Of course
this was back when Judge Wapner was presiding in CA. I think now its in NY with Judge Judy's
husband.
Danny
TheGamePeddler
which is none of their business is not legitimate. I have decided I will no
longer use Paypal.
visit the ColecoVision Collectors at:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/colecovisioncollectors
Jerry Jessop
Quick update as I'm off to Hawaii........ I BEAT THEM!!!
Spent about an hour on the phone and had it escalated upward 3 times
(by their choice) and after I would not cave, they did. The key seemed
to be that I was not desperate for the money and I made it clear I was
going to take them to small claims where I would win. Of course
mentioning that I was posting their emails on Usenet and mentioning
the many "I hate PayPal" sites certainly got their attention. I also
threatened them with a site called "PayPalhostage.com" and they seemed
to get the point:)
BTW: The last person finally told me why my account was frozen, all
the emails were bullshit. It was because my account was a year old and
this was the first transaction and a large one. What they failed to
understand was that a month prior I had requested my password by mail
and then upgraded the account in preparation of selling the RC Stella.
I had not used the account as I forgot the password. The question is
why not ask for more ID at that time, don't wait and hold almost 3K
hostage.
Oh well it's over, I'll get my money and close the account with this
lesson learned. PayPal can, and will, freeze your account at ANY time
for ANY reason they chose until you play ball.
Again, thanks for all the support!
Jerry
On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 03:38:41 GMT, Jerry Jessop <jjes...@home.com>
wrote:
>
>1. Do you travel out of the United States? If so, where do you travel
>(regions and /or countries)? Do you travel on business or pleasure?
>2. Are you selling merchandise purchased abroad? If so, what is that
>merchandise?
>
crymad
Jerry Jessop wrote:
>
> Quick update as I'm off to Hawaii........ I BEAT THEM!!!
Congratulations! As much as I would have relished seeing this dispute
go to court, I'm glad you got it settled.
--crymad
John in NH
Congrats! Oh, take notes on what's good and what sux in Hawaii for me - off to
there in Feb. for my wedding/honeymoon.
:)
Buyatari
I can now play my Atari 2700 guilt free!!!
Anyone for a game of Combat?
Adam
Dane L. Galden
buya...@aol.com (Buyatari) wrote:
Only if you let me drool on the machine and control sticks. :P
Dane.