Here's the reason Amsoil does NOT have API certification for most products
Bud Hinckley
http://www.go-synthetic.com/wwwboard/messages/120.html
for an explanation of why Amsoil XL-7500 oils are the only oils with
API certification.
No, I am not an Amsoil salesman - just a customer who has done
numerous research after buying a new Toyota Highlander which I hope to
take 300,000 miles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amsoil's Official Response to the API Certification
Posted by Ron on November 29, 2001 at 09:52:41:
Friends.....
I posted this earlier as a response to the API question. In case you
didn't catch that discussion here is the Companies position on the API
certification issue. Is API important? Yes, for sub $1 oils. For
premium synthetics that would blow away the tests, not really.
Remember cheap $.88 Wal-Mart oil passes API, they set pretty low
standards for passing the tests. Ron
AMSOIL API Licensing
Q. Why aren't all AMSOIL motor oils API licensed
A. Good question. AMSOIL staffers have recently read some message
boards with misinformation regarding this issue. Let us address API
licensing in depth, as well as the issue of warranties. Some AMSOIL
motor oils are API licensed, some are not. If you're concerned about
your warranty and feel pressures to use an API licensed oil, even
after reading this answer, then the 5W-30 (XLF) or 10W-30 (XLT)
XL-7500 or our 15W-40 (PCO) API licensed oils should be your choice.
If you are looking for an alternative to frequent oil changes or just
want the best performing oil for your car, then one of our top tier
non-API licensed synthetic oils are for you. Read on, and decide for
yourself.
API Licensing - Passenger Cars - What is it?
An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a
specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance
standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical,
chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum
performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to
address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy,
emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from
automobile, oil and additive companies. The current specification is
SJ/GF-2, and in July 2001 the first use of SL/GF-3 will begin.
Costs
The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor
oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000, depending on if the
formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple
test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. (That
amount goes to $275,000 to $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing
program on a specific formula.) Once that testing is complete and the
formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed
for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There
is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one
million. The length of time between new specifications is now
approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time
to recover testing costs.
Who Licenses What Formulas?
Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Ethyl,, Infinium and Oronite,
develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to
re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and
the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs
associated with testing. This, however, tends to commoditize the
market. The same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Most
of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas
developed, tested and licensed. All of AMSOIL INC.'s lubricant
formulas are unique and proprietary.
Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula
API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it
affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.
Mineral oils comprised of group I and Group II petroleum basestocks
may use a simple program called basestock interchange for added
flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by
completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor engine tests
an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many
different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive
pricing. However, basestock interchange for Group III and V synthetic
basestocks is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with
an ester (Group V) basestock from a specific supplier, then anyone
blending that formula must buy only that supplier's ester. Complete
engine testing would need to be performed on the formula using another
supplier's ester before an oil company could buy it from that
alternative supplier. This additional testing is normally not
performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes it
very difficult for synthetic lubricant manufacturers to negotiate
prices with synthetic basestock suppliers. Click HERE for more
information about Group I through Group V basestocks.
There is also something called viscosity grade read-across.
Fortunately, this applies to both petroleum and synthetic basestocks
although the better cold temperature performance of synthetics makes
it more difficult to achieve in some situations. (That's another whole
story.) What this means is that if you properly formulate the
lubricant for which you have run all of the API tests, there are
guidelines that allow you to use that same formula to make 0W-30,
5W-30, 10W-30, etc. viscosity motor oil.
Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical
Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree
of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to change the
percentages of components in the formula by varying amounts from the
original formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements. For
example, if the licensed formula used 10% of a certain V.I. improver,
you would have the ability to utilize from 9% to 11% of the same V.I.
improver for your formula.
Key Limitations For API Licensed Formulas
Phosphorous content - .10% maximum
(API SL; 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 viscosity grades, only)
NOACK volatility - 15% maximum
Click HERE for an explanation of NOACK Volatility
The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives
called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDTPs). Currently, these versatile
additives act as oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and aid in the ability
of a lubricant to reduce wear. The automobile manufacturers, however,
have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only .10%
phosphorous. Their reason is that some manufacturers believe that
higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converters
on their cars before they reach 150,000 miles, which is the number of
miles that their vehicles will be required to pass EPA emission
standards. There has not been total agreement within the automotive
and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over .10%
actually do harm catalytic converters in the long run. What they have
failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil.
The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the new SL/GF-3
passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor
oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range. Studies have shown
there is a correlation between NOACK volatility, oil consumption and
the amount of phosphorous from motor oil that will end up in the
exhaust gasses. Therefore, oils with higher levels of phosphorous but
with low volatility, such as AMSOIL motor oils, present no more risk
to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher NOACK
volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual
application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on our Dealers'
and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor
oils. State inspectors are continually amazed at the low emissions
levels generated by vehicles using AMSOIL products. So much for
poisoning catalytic converters.
AMSOIL INC. has determined that the reduced wear and extended drain
intervals achievable with phosphorous levels higher than the API limit
of .10% are real benefits for the consumer, and pose no risk to
catalytic converters. AMSOIL motor oils, except for the API licensed
XL-7500 5W-30 and 10W-30 viscosity grades, all have greater than .10%
phosphorous levels, and therefore, cannot be API licensed.
Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not
1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not
only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from
specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be
able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to
3 years, without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this
problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for
synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well
as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.
2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on
our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor
oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this
limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and
additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced
phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API
phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK
volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will
provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous
levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the
phosphorous level will become a non-issue.
Warranties And API Licensed Motor Oils
Fortunately, the law does not allow manufacturers to "void your
warranty" simply because of the brand of oil you use, the
specifications it meets or the miles you drive between oil changes. To
be specific, they cannot deny to fix your broken radio, faulty valve
or cracked piston because you used an AMSOIL non-API licensed motor
oil, or because you've gone more than 3000 miles since your last oil
change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil
related failure. All courts of law will find against any manufacturer
or dealership that tries these warranty shenanigans. If any automobile
dealership insinuates that your warranty will be void if you use
AMSOIL products or utilize extended drain intervals, let AMSOIL INC.
know the name of the Dealership, the address, the owner's name and the
name of the employee that made this statement. Mail to:
AMSOIL INC.
Attention: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Building
Superior, WI 54880
or e-mail to te...@amsoil.com.
They will almost never put it in writing, but if they do, please send
us a copy of that, too. Either way, we will send them a letter
informing them cease the intimidation of our customers. Click HERE to
read a sample letter.
Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine
problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for
that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would
apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you
in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's
our pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per
year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a
warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL
will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting
the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's
warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a
claim with our insurance company and request that an adjuster have the
vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. The
fact is there never has been an engine failure attributed to the
non-performance of AMSOIL products, and we do not expect there ever
will be. If it ever did, both AMSOIL and our insurance company would
make certain your problem was resolved. Click HERE to see the AMSOIL
Limited Warranty.
How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum
Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?
First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to
select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car
and heavy duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have
already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or
synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to
maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package
in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing
additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This
is unlike the vast majority of companies who, because additives are
expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives
required to meet the minimum API requirements.
We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance
characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to
optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity
index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points,
deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a
highly shear stable V.I. improver to ensure viscosity retention
throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and
less shear stable V.I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum
formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to
verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also
continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny
of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide
variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL
INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger
cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast data base of the
performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.
AMSOIL INC.'s products and formulations outperform API licensed oils.
They're engineered that way. Period.
Conclusion
AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or
standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance. We
introduced synthetics to the automotive world in 1972 with the first
synthetic motor oil to exceed API performance specifications. At that
time other manufacturers refused to recognize the superior performance
of synthetic motor oils. Now, however, most companies sell synthetic
lubricants, vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor oils and
gear lubes, and some manufacturers even offer extended warranties if
you use synthetics. AMSOIL has always offered extended drain intervals
because the oil was capable of performing for extended drains, and it
was the right thing to do for the consumer. Now the entire industry is
moving in that direction. Ironically, it was recently published that
automotive manufacturers will be recommending extended drain intervals
of up to 15,000 miles in the near future because that's what consumers
want.
AMSOIL is a company of firsts. That doesn't happen by always
conforming to industry norms and standards.
API licensing of lubricants is voluntary, and it ensures automobile
manufacturers and consumers that the product meets a set of minimum
standards. Should these standards, in the future, be raised to a level
consistent with AMSOIL's standards for motor oil performance, AMSOIL
will consider licensing all oils. For those that feel pressured to use
an API licensed product, we have them and encourage you to use them
(XLT, XLF and PCO). AMSOIL does offer better performing motor oils
that are not API licensed for all of the reasons explained in this
response. They provide our customers with alternatives to the
commodity products typically available in the market today. If you
want the convenience of extended drain intervals or the top
performance from your vehicle, AMSOIL has taken time to engineer the
very best money can buy.
Curtis Newton <cnewton
wrote:
>See below, from
>
>http://www.go-synthetic.com/wwwboard/messages/120.html
>
>for an explanation of why Amsoil XL-7500 oils are the only oils with
>API certification.
>
>No, I am not an Amsoil salesman - just a customer who has done
>numerous research after buying a new Toyota Highlander which I hope to
>take 300,000 miles.
>
Meanwhile, Mobil1 synthetic is certified and is available at most
stores.
88 Camry - 277,100 miles
98 Trooper - 65,900 miles
01 A4 - 5009 miles.
Dean Dardwin
Bullshit!
Dean
David Kelly
comments are inserted below) but if Bud were to make any sense he
wouldn't confuse "licensing" with "certification". As a result one can
only conclude Bud doesn't know which shoe goes on which foot. And his
buddy Ron isn't helping.
Bud Hinckley wrote:
>
> See below, from
>
> http://www.go-synthetic.com/wwwboard/messages/120.html
>
> for an explanation of why Amsoil XL-7500 oils are the only oils with
> API certification.
>
> No, I am not an Amsoil salesman - just a customer who has done
> numerous research after buying a new Toyota Highlander which I hope to
> take 300,000 miles.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Amsoil's Official Response to the API Certification
OK, see, the topic is "API Certification". But Ron invents "API
Licensing". Where might I too license API formulas?
This is the same sort of twisting as "UL Approved" as there is no such
thing as a UL Approved appliance or device. Better Housekeeping used to
Approve products but not Underwriter's Laboratories. UL only "lists"
products which have passed their battery of tests at an approved testing
laboratory. I believe API operates the same way.
> Posted by Ron on November 29, 2001 at 09:52:41:
>
> Friends.....
>
> I posted this earlier as a response to the API question. In case you
> didn't catch that discussion here is the Companies position on the API
> certification issue. Is API important? Yes, for sub $1 oils. For
> premium synthetics that would blow away the tests, not really.
> Remember cheap $.88 Wal-Mart oil passes API, they set pretty low
> standards for passing the tests. Ron
>
> AMSOIL API Licensing
>
> Q. Why aren't all AMSOIL motor oils API licensed
[...]
> Who Licenses What Formulas?
>
> Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Ethyl,, Infinium and Oronite,
> develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to
> re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and
> the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs
> associated with testing. This, however, tends to commoditize the
> market. The same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Most
> of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas
> developed, tested and licensed. All of AMSOIL INC.'s lubricant
> formulas are unique and proprietary.
>
> Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula
[...]
Since when did API own any formulas available for licensing?
dizz
>Lots of claims, ZERO data.
Idiot. 312 lines for THAT? Sheesh!
John
wrote:
>See below, from
>
>http://www.go-synthetic.com/wwwboard/messages/120.html
>
>for an explanation of why Amsoil XL-7500 oils are the only oils with
>API certification.
>
>No, I am not an Amsoil salesman - just a customer who has done
>numerous research after buying a new Toyota Highlander which I hope to
>take 300,000 miles.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Amsoil's Official Response to the API Certification
>
>Posted by Ron on November 29, 2001 at 09:52:41:
[By the way, Ron is an Amsoil dealer who runs the www.go-synthetic.com
web site where that was found. He responds to just about every
message on his Amsoil message board with gushing praise for All Things
Amsoil.]
>Friends.....
>
>I posted this earlier as a response to the API question. In case you
>didn't catch that discussion here is the Companies position on the API
>certification issue. Is API important? Yes, for sub $1 oils. For
>premium synthetics that would blow away the tests, not really.
The problem is, while Amsoil claims they "would blow away the tests",
they never do so -- at least not while anybody is looking (i.e.
watching over their shoulder to make sure they do the tests right and
honest).
>Remember cheap $.88 Wal-Mart oil passes API, they set pretty low
>standards for passing the tests. Ron
<Snip a big, smelly, and steaming pile of Amsoil crap>
Too bad Amsoil can't seem to pass even those "pretty low standards"
when the precise running conditions and the measurement and
interpretation of the test results are subject to close scrutiny by an
objective third party. They claim to be able to blow them away, but
they can't seem to do it when anybody is looking.
If the oil was tested properly to ensure that it meets or exceeds the
relevant API requirements, the test results required for certification
would already be in hand, and the big money would already have been
spent. If an oil maker tells you that they like to reformulate often,
and testing is too expensive, but their oil "would blow away the
tests", run away!
Ray L
John <john_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c365e1...@netnews.att.net...
> If the oil was tested properly to ensure that it meets or exceeds the
> relevant API requirements, the test results required for certification
> would already be in hand, and the big money would already have been
> spent. If an oil maker tells you that they like to reformulate often,
> and testing is too expensive, but their oil "would blow away the
> tests", run away!
near Toronto, Candian Tire store:
Valvoline MaxLife - no API 'donut', no 'starburst'
Mike...@mailcity.com
Mike