CL: Super Critters
Mike
so I can start hunting again. Nothing like being forced to depart
because you met a critter with 5x the stats of a normal one, and he had
4 buddies with him.
First the shit in DC. Then it was Valley and Noids. Now its KI. Will
you cut it the fuck out already?
And those that are gonna tell me to shut up because they think
"challenge" (aka exiles getting fucked over) is fun can suck my dick.
You want challenge, go hunt the abyss or something. Some of us like
places that you can hunt without a fucking mob that takes 2 hours to
clear each shell because we cant hit or brick anything there.
Guess I will go put Zhirems "30 minute rank macro" on while I am rotting
away on KI because of super lyfes (like KI isnt hard enough without this
shit). Fun my ass.
Michael
--
sir Sleipnir na Gralam
(Mike) wrote:
Yeah, right. And I fucking bullshit found the horking rats in East Field
to be fucking horked bullshit. But the biggest bullshit horking was the
fucking horky cats that were horking in the fucking bullshit South Forest.
If the mob had horking wanted to fuck bullshit the panthers, then we would
have fucking departed on the bullshit horks.
Fucking horked bullshit is just the biggest horking shitfuck that the
horky bull can ever shit. And if you want to hork me to shut the bull up,
then you can fuck the horking bull, shit or not, and then bull the fucking
hork. Fuck this bull, man, it just shits the hork all over the fucked
horker.
This is just such fucking bullshit, horky man.
HWC
--
sir Sleipnir Na Gralam, Knight of the Rose
Helpful GM
<sleipnirbugger-...@203-79-103-206.tnt14.paradise.net.nz>,
> Yeah, right. And I fucking bullshit found the horking rats in East Field
> to be fucking horked bullshit. But the biggest bullshit horking was the
> fucking horky cats that were horking in the fucking bullshit South Forest.
> If the mob had horking wanted to fuck bullshit the panthers, then we would
> have fucking departed on the bullshit horks.
>
> Fucking horked bullshit is just the biggest horking shitfuck that the
> horky bull can ever shit. And if you want to hork me to shut the bull up,
> then you can fuck the horking bull, shit or not, and then bull the fucking
> hork. Fuck this bull, man, it just shits the hork all over the fucked
> horker.
>
> This is just such fucking bullshit, horky man.
>
> HWC
>
> --
> sir Sleipnir Na Gralam, Knight of the Rose
Dearest Sir,
We are sorry that you are not enjoying your
_Horking_Bullshit_
, our staff does the best that we are able with rather meager resources.
If you would like we could give you a prorated refund for your unused
_Horking_Bullshit_
I hope this meets your satisfaction.
Thanks!
--
You have to remove stuff from my e-mail to reply, it's not difficult.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, ever purchase any product from
any company which gathers addresses from the usenet; period.
Zhirem
omg, for once, am I agreeing with Michael?! oh wait...t his is the
second time.. there was a Cmdr indient earlier... And yeah! Uhm! Stop
doing it and yeah...
But my Sign well we're on the topic. ;D
--Zhirem
P.S. Michael, if you need that macro, you know my email. ;)
Maeght
<sleipnirbugger-...@203-79-103-206.tnt14.paradise.net.nz>,
sleipni...@offspamred-quill.com (sir Sleipnir na Gralam) wrote:
> Yeah, right. And I fucking bullshit found the horking rats in East Field
> to be fucking horked bullshit. But the biggest bullshit horking was the
> fucking horky cats that were horking in the fucking bullshit South Forest.
> If the mob had horking wanted to fuck bullshit the panthers, then we would
> have fucking departed on the bullshit horks.
>
> Fucking horked bullshit is just the biggest horking shitfuck that the
> horky bull can ever shit. And if you want to hork me to shut the bull up,
> then you can fuck the horking bull, shit or not, and then bull the fucking
> hork. Fuck this bull, man, it just shits the hork all over the fucked
> horker.
>
> This is just such fucking bullshit, horky man.
Hork, hork, what is hork?
- Maeght
Garscow
> Yeah, right. And I fucking bullshit found the horking rats in East Field
> to be fucking horked bullshit. But the biggest bullshit horking was the
At least now we've see how James usually talks.
Garscow
Phineas
> Do me a favor, and let me know when this super critter bullshit is over
> so I can start hunting again. Nothing like being forced to depart
> because you met a critter with 5x the stats of a normal one, and he had
> 4 buddies with him.
Has anyone figured out why this is happening?
Joe and HGM has stated in the past that the stats of creatures would not
dramatically change (they're sometimes tweaked), but, in essence, if DT
wanted a stronger island panther, they'd create a new creature instead
of tweaking the current one.
Well, there's a lot of tweaked creatures kicking our collective asses!
How is this happening, and how do I sign up to get myself tweaked this
way! <g>
--Phineas
HWC Gronk
> Do me a favor, and let me know when this super critter bullshit is over
> so I can start hunting again. Nothing like being forced to depart
> First the shit in DC. Then it was Valley and Noids. Now its KI. Will
I must admit that I'll be very interested in what happens with these
areas over the next couple of weeks. After Gronk got his 3rd circle
belt awhile ago, he's put on a few pounds... um, I mean ranks, and was
just starting to be semi-useful in a couple of these places. If this
is just a one-time "test" to check out what exiles can handle, I guess
it seems rather OOC and odd (not being able to see any IC connection
between all the places, although I admit the possibility). If it's a
permanent thing, I'll be quite disappointed, and I expect many other
"part-time" clanners will be too. There's already plenty of places
Gronk can go where he falls all the time and can't usefully
contribute.
--
HWC Gronk
Helpful GM
Diligently forwarded. FYI, the first one and it's follow up went to the
GM list as "CL: Fuck you" and "CL: Fuck you, part deux". THIS
installment went as "CL: Bride of 'Fuck You'" along with my query "Out
of curiosity, *IS* someone going to all the various hot-spots and
generating "extra challenging" monsters? Or is he just hallucinating?"
Film at 11.
Mike
> Diligently forwarded. FYI, the first one and it's follow up went to the
> GM list as "CL: Fuck you" and "CL: Fuck you, part deux". THIS
> installment went as "CL: Bride of 'Fuck You'" along with my query "Out
> of curiosity, *IS* someone going to all the various hot-spots and
> generating "extra challenging" monsters? Or is he just hallucinating?"
>
> Film at 11.
Sometimes its hard to tell if a GM is messing with you or not. You get
critters that might be a little stronger than normal, or spawns that are
a little bigger. But you never really know because they are not that
far out of the norm.
Then there are times like this that it just screams out at you. When
you see a Cave Maha Runkenee destory Gurgi you know something is up. Or
a Blue Lyfe (these are one of the weaker lyfes most times) damn near one
hit Ziff. And then there was the valley rat that Natas had trouble
hitting. I even got my ass kicked by a flock of common vultures. I
killed (not slaughtered) the vultures, and I havent killed a vulture
since the valley was first found.
I guess things like this could be fun some places, but KI is not one of
them. And the worst part is that it didnt start until we had sent half
the party (and most of our horus) down their trees. The ones down the
trees got killed by forest cobras that were on crack too. When you die
on KI there is no rescue most times.
This is the second time I have been forced to depart from this super
critter shit. Its not like we can avoid it, becuase we dont get any
warning. And there is NO connection between DC, Noids, the Valley, and
KI other than that they are higher level hunting grounds. If I go to
the valley today, are super VP gonna cut us all down? Or where else is
it gonna happen next? Needing a mob to hunt places is not fun.
Michael
Lex
>> GM list as "CL: Fuck you" and "CL: Fuck you, part deux". THIS
>> installment went as "CL: Bride of 'Fuck You'" along with my query "Out
>> of curiosity, *IS* someone going to all the various hot-spots and
>> generating "extra challenging" monsters? Or is he just hallucinating?"
>>
>> Film at 11.
>
>
> Sometimes its hard to tell if a GM is messing with you or not. You get
> critters that might be a little stronger than normal, or spawns that are
> a little bigger. But you never really know because they are not that
> far out of the norm.
>
> Then there are times like this that it just screams out at you. When
> you see a Cave Maha Runkenee destory Gurgi you know something is up. Or
> a Blue Lyfe (these are one of the weaker lyfes most times) damn near one
> hit Ziff. And then there was the valley rat that Natas had trouble
> hitting. I even got my ass kicked by a flock of common vultures. I
> killed (not slaughtered) the vultures, and I havent killed a vulture
> since the valley was first found.
Mike isn't hallucinating, and he's not talking about things that are just a
little harder. I was in DC when 6-8 5th circle fighters were there and
could not make a dent in a wailing spirit. Most of the time one could have
handled it easily. I think it was Tara that departed 4 times in 2 days from
there.
Maybe someone was just changing stats of things for fun, but I don't know.
It's happened in several places now, and it might be part of some grand
plot.
Lex
Warren J. Dew
along with my query "Out of curiosity, *IS* someone going to
all the various hot-spots and generating "extra challenging"
monsters? Or is he just hallucinating?"
It's not just 'extra challenging' monsters. There are also 'extra wimpy'
monsters around, though there are either fewer of those, or people notice them
less.
I figured this might be a bug, so I bugged at least one case. And the fact
that certain snell boundaries have become much more permeable (between 1s of
scout and the passage leading to the area with the cryptogram fen, for example)
might have been a purposeful change. But I don't see how to blame the computer
for extra large spawns in a variety of areas - including wimpier areas than
those reported here so far - and for the teleports to Orga Camp.
Those I have to assume are either a rogue Godling Master or Tenebrion using
whatever he got from Malkor to good effect.
Warren J. Dew
Powderhouse Software
Phelps
> Maybe someone was just changing stats of things for fun, but I don't know.
> It's happened in several places now, and it might be part of some grand
> plot.
Or it could be a bug. Am I the only one who has /bugged it?
HWC for Phelps, who has slipped badly on his /bug quota
obPhelpses of the world
obBalanceTaxSDB
--
Affiliation medals are tyranny.
Mike
I wouldnt notice anything that was already easy for me, like rats and
boloks. But if I had fought a weak critter at my level I would have
noticed.
If these weaker critters where changed as much as the strong ones have
been, they would be things like Orga Fury that are a 2 hit slaughter for
me. Thats not the kind of thing you dont notice.
Michael
Simsu
> In article <B85E3A1A.5FEE%co...@mac.com>, Lex <co...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe someone was just changing stats of things for fun, but I don't know.
> > It's happened in several places now, and it might be part of some grand
> > plot.
>
> Or it could be a bug. Am I the only one who has /bugged it?
Well since no one has gotten it till now I'll spill the beans... It's the
Ether, from the ethereal plane leaking into our plane and making beasts super
strong. Think about it folks.
Now I want my "I thought out a story line award" from HGM... alone with that
10k bounty for hitting the nail on the head..
Mac
Lex
know.
> > It's happened in several places now, and it might be part of some grand
> > plot.
>
> Or it could be a bug. Am I the only one who has /bugged it?
I probably would have, except a mystic said he sensed something wrong with
the area (don't remember the details), and again in noids just before there
were a couple of super noids there. That's why I figure it was done on
purpose for IC reasons.
Lex
Helpful GM
One "story line award", coming up! <G>
Uh, you only get the 10k bounty if you hit the nail on the head. And if
someone offers one. I believe Kojiro is the big bounty-offerer...
One "hit on the head", coming up!
Windy Dorf
Although I was rolling on the floor laughing my ass off at Sleipy's
reply, I have to both agree with Mike and Gronk here. Moreso with
Gronks view.
I have been teetering on the edge of 2nd and 3rd circle for a good 6
months now. I was close to feeling useful in these places
before...before...before, just what the F*ck do you call the change?
Completely IC: my character now feels like the rug was pulled from
beneath him. He went back to coin whoring the south forest. The only
area he can feel semi-confident in having a good time is TGBG, not
because he doesn't get flattened there, but at least he can see what
death is in store before he jumps over the snell border.
I spent a good amount of time involved with the DC rescues. I saw
nothing IC that would atribute to the MASSIVE upgrade to the critters
there. I saw 5th circlers giving up. The only thing that kept us going
for 4+ hours in the same snell was the fallens. A lot of us got B&C 2
days in a row.
Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
of fun.
In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
gain was worth it.
IMHO, YMMV
-Windy Dorf
EDitchburn
seems tougher, and my fighter was bricking artak well before the last update
and is now having running up against some artak who are hitting her all too
well.
I dunno about easier critters. My fighter did slaughter her first orga, but
was that an extra whimpy orga, or just the extra evus kicking in? I suspect
the extra evus, as I haven't noticed any bolok that were easy to kill.
Elizabeth
Michael Welsh
20020107120903...@mb-fi.aol.com, the profound and prolific
EDitchburn of editc...@aol.comNOSPAM articulated:
> I suspect its just tougher all over since the last chaos storm. South Forest
> seems tougher, and my fighter was bricking artak well before the last update
> and is now having running up against some artak who are hitting her all too
> well.
There are always critters that I brick regularly that have good days. I've
bricked Artaks, Boloks, IPs, and Mahas for a long time and I still run into
the occasional IP or Bolok that hits me easily.
--
Michael, HWC for Monolith
"I don't intentionally construct straw men, although I'm stupid,
and sometimes construct them inadvertantly." - Helpful GM
Mike
If the artaks were changed like these critters were they would be 2
hitting you and I would prolly vanq them. These are in no way small
changes, most of these critters are at least 4x stronger than the normal
ones. Its possible that you have just been unlucky, because I havent
seen any artaks that were jacked up this much. I dont hunt SF, but I do
hunt artaks in NWF.
Michael
Mike
> Or it could be a bug. Am I the only one who has /bugged it?
You bet your ass I bugged it. But my bug was more along the lines of:
/bug what the fuck are you morons...
You get the idea.
Michael
Mike
> There are always critters that I brick regularly that have good days. I've
> bricked Artaks, Boloks, IPs, and Mahas for a long time and I still run into
> the occasional IP or Bolok that hits me easily.
Mahas seem to have a huge range on how hard they are. I killed maha
runknee 2 weeks ago, and I slaughter most Kal Noths. This was before
all the super critter bullshit too.
Michael
Noah
No, you are not. Myself along with many others who first noticed a
difference in the valley bugged the unusual behavior of creatures.
This was of course when Valley Panthers and Young Sasquatch took five
to ten minutes to kill, Cobras did incredible damage (4 hitting Thuja)
with bizarre accuracy, Beetles took a crowd to take down (instead of
just four fighters), Cave Mahas were pumped up like crazy, and many
other increased stat creatures paraded around stomping exiles. I have
heard such occurances in the Dark Chamber, Kizmia's Island, and other
common hunting areas and I trust those who were disturbed by this
bugged it.
Merlisk
>Well since no one has gotten it till now I'll spill the beans... It's the
>Ether, from the ethereal plane leaking into our plane and making beasts super
>strong. Think about it folks.
>
>Now I want my "I thought out a story line award" from HGM... alone with that
>10k bounty for hitting the nail on the head..
>
>Mac
Heh. Well, I don't really know if you're the first because others
have said the same thing, but it's a good observation.
However, I'd be surprised if that's the sole reason. I don't know if
there is NO connection between UI and DC, but we do know that the
Ether has undine in it, so maybe their power is boosted by the plane's
substance. Maybe the Darshaks have gotten the knowledge from Umbrion
and are boosting the Undine.
However, I don't see the correlation between the above and the Lyfe
animals, but what do I know?
I'm sure we'll find out in due time. Meanwhile, I'm done with DC for
a bit. I dislike getting my butt kicked that much in one day. :)
--
Merlisk, Healer, Reference Librarian and General
Assitant to Helpful GM
Officially endorsed by the late Aethelred
Summoning with the blessing of Koric
http://www.sundragonclan.com/
Helpful .sig:
its = possessive of it - The dog is in its house.
it's = it is - It's raining outside.
Mike
There are no undine in noids, and some of them are on crack too I hear.
Michael
Helpful GM
mike...@aol.com (Mike) wrote:
> You bet your ass I bugged it. But my bug was more along the lines of:
>
> /bug what the fuck are you morons...
FYI, these kind of bugs are incredibly useful. IN addition to putting
the reader in a good mood to fix bugs -- so s/he's at his mental prime
-- it's good that you told us (a) what the observed behaviour was and
(b) what the expected behaviour was, so we would have a fighting chance
of finding & fixing the bug.
/sai michael ;killwith a fucking moron
* Michael has fallen to a fucking moron
<G>
Helpful GM
daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
> Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
> of fun.
> In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
> gain was worth it.
>
> IMHO, YMMV
> -Windy Dorf
You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
goal.
So far (it's Monday after the update), the GM/author/producer community
is reasonably sure that no changes took place to cause the described
behaviour.
FWIW, we're still looking into it -- but with no one fessing-up to
having made any changes or spawned any critters, it's hard to know where
to look.
GM-A: I don't see anything -- do you see anything?
GM-B: Nope. Did you make any changes?
GM-A: Nope, you?
GM-B: Nope.
GM-A: Right. Let's grab some beers & go watch Michael fall again. He's
the best!
GM-B: True. True...
Stephen McManus
<mer...@nospam.gte.net> wrote:
> However, I'd be surprised if that's the sole reason. I don't know if
> there is NO connection between UI and DC, but we do know that the Ether
> has undine in it, so maybe their power is boosted by the plane's
> substance.
This theory holds no water. As far as I know, before the recent super
monster problem, the undine in the EP have been the same strength as
their Lok'groton counterparts. If the the Ether really made the monsters
stronger, why are the monsters in the EP not any stronger than in the
normal plane?
> --
> Merlisk, Healer, Reference Librarian and General Assitant to Helpful GM
> Officially endorsed by the late Aethelred Summoning with the blessing of
> Koric
> http://www.sundragonclan.com/
>
> Helpful .sig:
> its = possessive of it - The dog is in its house. it's = it is - It's
> raining outside.
--
----Steve McManus
mcma...@rawmaw.com
Quote of the Day:
"Don't drink and park... accidents cause people."
Stephen McManus
GM" <HelpfulGM@*no-spam*playnaked.com> wrote:
> You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
> goal.
>
> So far (it's Monday after the update), the GM/author/producer community
> is reasonably sure that no changes took place to cause the described
> behaviour.
>
> FWIW, we're still looking into it -- but with no one fessing-up to
> having made any changes or spawned any critters, it's hard to know where
> to look.
>
> GM-A: I don't see anything -- do you see anything? GM-B: Nope. Did you
> make any changes? GM-A: Nope, you?
> GM-B: Nope.
> GM-A: Right. Let's grab some beers & go watch Michael fall again. He's
> the best!
> GM-B: True. True...
>
> <G>
Ok, get a few GMs together with their normal characters and try to take
the Dark Chamber. Let me know how you all do. :o
--
----Steve McManus
mcma...@rawmaw.com
Quote of the Day:
"But these [serious NT security flaws] are not inherent flaws in the operating system -- they don't happen by accident. They are the resultof deliberate and well-thought-out efforts." --Mike Nash, Microsoft. The _flaws_ are deliberate?
K'Pyn
What mystic. What'd they sense. What'd they say.
K'Pyn
K'Pyn
Oh yes, changes were abundant... Critters I oughta slaughter I was
vanquishing. I don't mind much really cause K'Pyn is certain some
mystic tinkered with the fabric of our fragile little island
chain...certainly for our own good of course.
rhdennis
Hidden
K'Pyn <rhde...@guess.io.com> wrote:
> What mystic. What'd they sense. What'd they say.
>
> K'Pyn
In Noids, mystics often sense a "dark feeling". This has been going on
FAR longer than the recent outbreak of supercritters. Any mystic, from
Apprentice level on up can sense it, but since they don't hang out in
noids often, you seldom hear about it.
--
His Holiness,
Hidden T. Thoom
High Priest to Mak'ros and
LIFE Explorer
Robin Greyhawk
> However, I'd be surprised if that's the sole reason. I don't know if
> there is NO connection between UI and DC, but we do know that the
> Ether has undine in it, so maybe their power is boosted by the plane's
> substance. Maybe the Darshaks have gotten the knowledge from Umbrion
> and are boosting the Undine.
>
> However, I don't see the correlation between the above and the Lyfe
> animals, but what do I know?
Kizmia's has the portal in Umbrion's Castle. DC is next to the portals
in the Scarmis pit. No known connection yet for the Valley and Noids.
To be honest, I want to wait until I see if this is a fluke (bug)
before I spent a lot of scarce time investigating it.
A mark against the theory is that there are no reports of superstrong
critters on Tenebrion's island as well as the observation that undead
in EP seemed to be normal strength.
Robin Greyhawk
Windy Dorf
> In article <3a67d724.02010...@posting.google.com>,
> daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
>
> > Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
> > of fun.
> > In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
> > gain was worth it.
> >
> > IMHO, YMMV
> > -Windy Dorf
>
> You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
> goal.
whoa , Whoa, WHOA!
Um, yes. I in my infinate stupidity assumed that DT made changes to
the client with the intention of an increase in fun for the players.
By pointing out my assumption, are you saying that I am wrong in
assuming that changes are made for this reason?
By and large is this not the case?
Critter (a) is "evolved" by a GM, H&SWC gripe about the change...and
subsequently we are lectured that many such changes are made after
careful examination by Joe+GMs in order to make it more condusive to
fun.
Am I wrong?
Did I misunderstand you when discussing TGBG, RC, etc...?
If indeed, this IS a \bug...well and fine. Thank you for addressing it
as such.
Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that they
encounter is a \buggable event?
I would like to be able to assume that everything that effects my
character is a natural/mystical occurance, and react as a RL entity
would.
Sheesh...
-Windy Dorf
Merlisk
wrote:
>Oh yes, changes were abundant... Critters I oughta slaughter I was
>vanquishing. I don't mind much really cause K'Pyn is certain some
>mystic tinkered with the fabric of our fragile little island
>chain...certainly for our own good of course.
/ponder I wonder if now is a good time to talk about my last spell
backfiring. Nahh....it can wait.
--
Merlisk, Healer
http://www.sundragonclan.com/
"More roleplaying occurs in the bedroom than on any internet server.
If you are looking for hard-corp roleplaying, you are in the wrong place."
- HWC for Phelps, 12/20/01
Shamhat de Leon
> Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that they
> encounter is a \buggable event?
One good example is the "hunted out forests" bug. EVERYONE who hunted
noticed that critters were scarce, but the GMs didnt realize it and
start looking for the problem until the grumbling had been going on for
a long time. An experienced exile's intuitive perception of what's going
on is surprisingly accurate.
In this case, there probably is a bug. The way it was originally
reported ("Tell the GM who ran this invasion that we didn't enjoy it,")
it didn't sound like a bug at all. Neither did Ziff's insistence that
the gods were out to ruin his hunting.
However, additional people noticing that they vanquish things they
should slaughter leads to the notion that it's a real, widespread
problem. (Younger exiles faced with a surprisingly strong foe are more
likely to run like heck and blame their own aptitude than to complain to
the newsgroup!)
I asked Ziff to go to a lower-level area and see if there were any super
TG's, for instance, but he didn't think that would be an interesting and
entertaining use of his time.
In any case, and I'm sure HGM can add more pointers, here's an example
of useful /bugs:
A cava maha just killed Gurgi, and he usually bricks them. We can't kill
it, and we usually slaughter them.
Some unusually strong undine are in the dark chamber, and we can't kill
them even though we have a very strong party that can usually clear the
place.
A noid just killed Thuja in 2 hits and she usually can take dozens of
noid hits without turning green.
Not-useful /bugs:
Will you naughty GM's please quit trying to kill me?
That invasion was not entertaining because I had to depart.
I dislike the new policy of changing the stats of existing monsters
frequently.
-Brought to you by Shamhat's Profanity Removal Service
Helpful GM
daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
> Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote in message
> news:<HelpfulGM-2DC81...@ca.news.verio.net>...
> > In article <3a67d724.02010...@posting.google.com>,
> > daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
> >
> > > Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
> > > of fun.
> > > In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
> > > gain was worth it.
> > >
> > > IMHO, YMMV
> > > -Windy Dorf
> >
> > You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
> > goal.
>
> whoa , Whoa, WHOA!
> Um, yes. I in my infinate stupidity assumed that DT made changes to
> the client with the intention of an increase in fun for the players.
> By pointing out my assumption, are you saying that I am wrong in
> assuming that changes are made for this reason?
whoa, Whoa, WHOA!
I said no such thing.
First, there's NOTHING we can do to the client to change monster stats.
If a change had been made, it'd be made to the server.
Second, "You assume that adjustments were made [and some other stuff]"
was my criticism of your assumption. So far as we are able to tell, no
adjustments have been made.
Bottom line: there were no adjustments that did anything to change the
level of fun.
In addition to that, I have to question whether the experience of trying
to explain this is worth it.
> Am I wrong?
<G> Only on about a dozen levels ;)
> Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that they
> encounter is a \buggable event?
*IF* I were the thought police, I'd suggest that they address such
things in the following order (FROM TOP TO BOTTOM!), and not procede to
the next before absolutely eliminating the previous as a possibility:
* An IC event
* An anomaly in random variance
* Something that can be attributed to hard luck
* Selective memory and/or poor data-collection on the
part of the observer
* Possibly a bug
* The Way Things Are, From Now On
> I would like to be able to assume that everything that effects my
> character is a natural/mystical occurance, and react as a RL entity
> would.
And your IC/natural RL-entity reaction is "these [monster] adjustments
did nothing to increase the level of fun"?!?!
> Sheesh...
Sheesh, indeed!
Helpful GM
de Leon <sha...@vagilemind.com> wrote:
> > Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that they
> > encounter is a \buggable event?
>
> One good example is the "hunted out forests" bug. EVERYONE who hunted
> noticed that critters were scarce, but the GMs didnt realize it and
> start looking for the problem until the grumbling had been going on for
> a long time.
Not entirely true. Our mistake, there, was that we assumed the problem
could only be attributed to 2 things, verified that those 2 things
worked, then wrote it off to "selective memory/bad data collection",
which is amazingly prevalent and the honest-to-goodness answer to about
7 out of 10 reported "problems."
> An experienced exile's intuitive perception of what's going
> on is surprisingly accurate.
Sometimes. Sometimes -- often! -- a couple of experienced exiles
convince each other and themselves that they saw something, then they
run around the lands exposing others to a selected set of data, and
"proving" to them that they saw it, too. After a while, there's this
big uproar that something is going on, when it's all a misconception.
Taken to extremes, it's a little like this:
Experienced exile #1: there, it happened again!
Experienced exile #2: yeah, that happened to me, yesterday
#1: This is the 3rd time in a row I've flipped heads -- this
coin must be weird
#2: Yeah, I've had a few of those. I had one once that
went 12 in a row, heads, not counting the one tails
after 7.
#1: I'll try again <flip> ok, ignore that one, <flip>
THERE! It did it again!
#2: Yup, looks like you got a bad coin...
#1: Hey, #3, can I borrow a coin, I want to try something
#3: Sure, what's going on
#2: He's got a weird coin, always flips heads
#1: <flip #3's coin> Hmmm, maybe it takes a minute to warm
up <flip> ok, that didn't count <flip> there! <flip>
Again! See? 2 heads in a row! <flip> Three!!!
#3: whoa! How do you do that?
#1: I don't know <flip> ok, ignore that one <flip> see?!
another!
#2: We think it has something to do with TGBG, and if there
are any spriggin around -- at least that's when it seems
to do it...
...and then the rumors fly.
This is, of course, an extreme example -- used only to illustrate the
point. It's *NOT* that exiles are stupid (they're not, mostly), it's
that a lot of things, when reduced to their fundamental principles,
really boil down to about the same thing. It's the trappings, the
wrapper, the smoke & mirrors that allows one to take a simple set of
events and see in it something really weird.
It's the same phenomenon that allows one to see horses in cloud
formations.
But back to super-monsters: it's not that we don't believe you -- we
*DO* believe you. In fact, we're worried that there may be a problem,
and we're looking for it. But here's the thing
* Check monster files: stats haven't changed.
* Ask GMs if they're out scaring the exiles: no one fesses-up
* As server-GM if he bent a rod: says "no changes."
So, we're looking -- but we're at a point where it's more of a "keeping
an eye open, looking for clues" thing, since we are kind-of stuck about
where to look next.
Personally, I blame Chum ;)
> In this case, there probably is a bug. The way it was originally
> reported ("Tell the GM who ran this invasion that we didn't enjoy it,")
> it didn't sound like a bug at all. Neither did Ziff's insistence that
> the gods were out to ruin his hunting.
Right. Actually, it's hard to tell if it was a GM and maybe it's over,
now (with a few stragglers into whom you'll run for the next several
days) or if there's a bug.
Your clues ("I saw this weird monster here") are helpful. Accusasions
that we spend too much time trying to screw exiles (not counting
Michael) just make it harder to wade through the available clues to
figure out what's really going on.
> However, additional people noticing that they vanquish things they
> should slaughter leads to the notion that it's a real, widespread
> problem.
Yeah, that's the weirdest clue, so far.
> I asked Ziff to go to a lower-level area and see if there were any super
> TG's, for instance, but he didn't think that would be an interesting and
> entertaining use of his time.
Heh. Thanks, Ziff :\
> In any case, and I'm sure HGM can add more pointers, here's an example
> of useful /bugs:
>
> A cava maha just killed Gurgi, and he usually bricks them. We can't kill
> it, and we usually slaughter them.
Yes, that's useful info.
> Some unusually strong undine are in the dark chamber, and we can't kill
> them even though we have a very strong party that can usually clear the
> place.
Ditto.
> A noid just killed Thuja in 2 hits and she usually can take dozens of
> noid hits without turning green.
Ditto, useful stuff.
> Not-useful /bugs:
> Will you naughty GM's please quit trying to kill me?
Especially un-useful if we're not on-line at the time, so we can't come
watch you get killed. Especially if it's Michael ;)
> That invasion was not entertaining because I had to depart.
While superficially un-helpful, adding "I don't mind a tough fight, but
I think that 40 super-tough hemlocks in town square is overkill" at
least allows your voice to be heard and, when considering what to do for
an invasion 6 months from now, someone might remember that you
did/didn't enjoy a particular thing...
> I dislike the new policy of changing the stats of existing monsters
> frequently.
This *WOULD* be a good bug, except for the problem that it's presented
poorly. What happens is, a very busy GM reads that and says to himself
"there is no policy of changing stats of existing monsters frequently --
problem solved" and tosses the bug.
Sure, you can blame sloppy-GMing, if you want -- but that doesn't solve
YOUR problem. I'm trying to help you communicate with GMs better (all
the while trying to get THEIR thoughts out to YOU. Heh, envy me! ;) If
you present the perceived behaviour along with the expected behaviour,
it's easier for the bug-reading GM to address your gripe. Two important
points, here:
1) I realize it's not your job to make GMs' jobs easier.
2) I'm trying to explain to you how to better have your grievences
addressed by those who address them. You can use or ignore this advice
at your leisure, I'm just explaining How Things Work.
So, something like "Usually ferals put up a pretty good fight -- I kill
a few, they knock me down, I run away, I come back... but when I get a
super-feral that 1-hits me, with no clues before it hits me, that's
frustrating."
This bug explains what you like, what you saw, what you expected to
see... and doesn't make assumptions about malicious DT policies or
offend the reader. A GM would be hard pressed not to drop what they
were doing and go investigate this bug.
A bug like "What the @#$% are you $#@%@ doing? Are you @#$% crazy?!?"
is a bug that... well, I, personally, ignore them. My time is too
precious to be bothered trying to figure out what this person thought
they were communicating.
---
Back to the original (super critters): we're looking into it. It
certainly seems like something's going on, but we're not sure what, yet.
"Film at 11."
> -Brought to you by Shamhat's Profanity Removal Service
...and H-GM's Helpful Informative Post[al] Service (HIPS <G>)
Warren J. Dew
Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that
they encounter is a \buggable event?
Both Ann and Helpful GM are on record as saying, when in doubt, /bug.
My approach is, if it seems like it's beyond normal variation, report a bug.
Once it's bugged, the player doesn't have to worry about it any more, and the
character can speculate on whether it's natural variation, some weird temporary
or permanent effect of the latest chaos storm, or magic from some powerful
being or godling affecting creatures.
Warren J. Dew
Powderhouse Software
Helpful GM
What Warren said. 100%. Top to bottom. Go, Warren, go!
Warren J. Dew
Second, "You assume that adjustments were made [and some
other stuff]" was my criticism of your assumption. So far
as we are able to tell, no adjustments have been made.
Bottom line: there were no adjustments that did anything
to change the level of fun.
Thanks for letting us know that it was not intentional. We keep pestering you
to level with us as to whether things are bugs or intentional changes to game
play; I wanted you to know that at least some of us appreciate it when you do.
In addition to that, I have to question whether the
experience of trying to explain this is worth it.
Well, if you want people to play in character, it has. For many players, it's
much easier to treat intentional changes as in character events when said
players know that they are intentional changes, and not some random bug that
will shortly be fixed. Delta Tao's leveling with us on things like this will
help.
Mike
> However, additional people noticing that they vanquish things they
> should slaughter leads to the notion that it's a real, widespread
> problem. (Younger exiles faced with a surprisingly strong foe are more
> likely to run like heck and blame their own aptitude than to complain to
> the newsgroup!)
If newbies found a super critter we would know it, because others would
have to come in to save them. These critters are 4-5x stronger than
normal, and that means that a Maha Runkee would fight like a VP. Thats
not the kind of thing people arnt going to notice, since it would kill
almost everyone it saw. I hunt cats alot, and I have not seen anything
anywhere close to what a super critter would fight like.
So far its confined to KI (had to depart), DC (departed there to), Noids
(was smart enough not to go), and the Valley (4 hour rescue).
It only happened once in the Valley so far. Super Critters never
spawn alone, when it happens you get at least a few of them. All spawns
in the valley have been normal since the first incident.
I am not going anywhere near DC again, one depart is enough. But there
WAS a GM there, at least during the time that it all started. All the
WS got pulled back at one point remember? And people said something
about a darkness message in their sidebar. I wasent there at that
point, I was here bitching about how lame it was.
And I havent gone back to KI since I was forced to depart either. But
we couldnt kill any of the super critters so I am sure they are still
there to fuck up our next hunting trip too.
If this is a bug, its a huge one in my eyes. How many people have had
to depart over this? When we find a bug that we can exploit for our
benifit, we are expected to tell you right away (and thats fair). But
it seems when a bug screws us over we are on our own. If there is any
way you can "refund" the exp from the departs to the exiles that
departed these places you should do it.
Michael
Shamhat de Leon
mike...@aol.com (Mike) wrote:
> And I havent gone back to KI since I was forced to depart either. But
> we couldnt kill any of the super critters so I am sure they are still
> there to fuck up our next hunting trip too.
> If there is any
> way you can "refund" the exp from the departs to the exiles that
> departed these places you should do it.
Now there's an opportunity!
I bet if you offered to help HGM find the ones you left on KI and
participated in experiments to determine the difference in their
behavior vs. normal ones, he would appreciate the assistance. He might
even feel that your effort deserved some compensation.
It's worth a shot.
-Shamhat
P. S. Hint: Try not to say "fuck" a lot, and avoid comments about his
mother's appearance or profession and whether she was married to his
father at the time of his birth.
Helpful GM
> Bottom line: there were no adjustments that did anything
> to change the level of fun.
>
> Thanks for letting us know that it was not intentional. We keep
> pestering you
> to level with us as to whether things are bugs or intentional changes to
> game
> play; I wanted you to know that at least some of us appreciate it when
> you do.
Heh, thanks.
> In addition to that, I have to question whether the
> experience of trying to explain this is worth it.
> Well, if you want people to... [snip]
No, no... I was riffing off of WD's "Bottom line:" and "I have to
question" lines, in the post to which I was replying.
WD is one of those folks who always posts those borderline posts -- you
know, the kind that say "look, I don't want to cause any trouble or
anything, and I understand that it's not you GMs' fault if you're
morons, but I just can't figure out why anyone would be so stupid as to
do the things you do, when you clearly want to help us and by the way I
really like the game, but why is it your policy to beat us to death? We
love you, please don't hurt us anymore. Signed, WD"
It's often hard to figure out if there's a sincere question in there, or
just an attempt to slam -- so it's hard to know how much effort to put
into the reply.
A pox on anyone who says "you should always put your utmost into every
reply", doubley-so if it's Hidden or Maengt <G>
Windy Dorf
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> In article <3a67d724.0201...@posting.google.com>,
> daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
>
> > Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote in message
> > news:<HelpfulGM-2DC81...@ca.news.verio.net>...
> > > In article <3a67d724.02010...@posting.google.com>,
> > > daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
> > > > of fun.
> > > > In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
> > > > gain was worth it.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO, YMMV
> > > > -Windy Dorf
> > >
> > > You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
> > > goal.
> >
> > whoa , Whoa, WHOA!
> > Um, yes. I in my infinate stupidity assumed that DT made changes to
> > the client with the intention of an increase in fun for the players.
> > By pointing out my assumption, are you saying that I am wrong in
> > assuming that changes are made for this reason?
>
> whoa, Whoa, WHOA!
>
> I said no such thing.
>
> First, there's NOTHING we can do to the client to change monster stats.
> If a change had been made, it'd be made to the server.
>
My bad, please insert "server" where I said "client"
(dammit GM, I'm a graphic artist, not a technician)
> Second, "You assume that adjustments were made [and some other stuff]"
> was my criticism of your assumption. So far as we are able to tell, no
> adjustments have been made.
>
I assumed due to the data that has been brought forward in this
thread and in my experiences over the past few days. You assume I
had the ability to read the GM-collective mind and see that as far as
you "could tell, no adjustments have been made"
> Bottom line: there were no adjustments that did anything to change the
> level of fun.
>
> In addition to that, I have to question whether the experience of trying
> to explain this is worth it.
>
> > Am I wrong?
>
> <G> Only on about a dozen levels ;)
>
> > Would you rather exiles assume that every difference that they
> > encounter is a \buggable event?
>
> *IF* I were the thought police, I'd suggest that they address such
> things in the following order (FROM TOP TO BOTTOM!), and not procede to
> the next before absolutely eliminating the previous as a possibility:
>
> * An IC event
OK, no clues were given that this was IC.
> * An anomaly in random variance
Yup, agreed. It is an anomaly. On a massive scale. should I have
stopped here?
> * Something that can be attributed to hard luck
OK...at what point does it stop being hard luck?
> * Selective memory and/or poor data-collection on the
> part of the observer
OK, I observed what I observed. I also spoke with others about their
observations.
> * Possibly a bug
Sorry, I did not bug it. I assumed (wrongly I confess) again that it
was a change that was GM controlled.
-One of the first Super-Wraiths that we encountered was virtually
indestructable. We spent about a real life hour pounding at it. It
regenerated faster than we could harm it. Quite suddenly, it died.
From what I remember, it went from green to dead. Period.
A few of us cheered. A couple of us stood there aghast that it
just...ended. We (wrongly?) jumped to the conclusionn that a GM,
seeing the problem, took the time to put the dial lower on the
critters stats.
I believe that a couple in the party actually /bugged a thanks to the
GM.
> * The Way Things Are, From Now On
>
> > I would like to be able to assume that everything that effects my
> > character is a natural/mystical occurance, and react as a RL entity
> > would.
>
> And your IC/natural RL-entity reaction is "these [monster] adjustments
> did nothing to increase the level of fun"?!?!
My character has no knowledge of Newsgroups sir.
I do not speak IC here and please do not assume that the views
expressed here are those of my character.
This just in: "Windy Dorf" is not my character's name
> > Sheesh...
>
> Sheesh, indeed!
Crimmeny
Lex
> spawn alone, when it happens you get at least a few of them. All spawns
> in the valley have been normal since the first incident.
Also, I've been to noids several times after "super-noids" were reported
there, and everything seemed normal. So, because this isn't something
that's happening all the time, it might not be confined to just the places
it's been noticed so far.
However, I don't think there has been any "super" island panthers running
around the forests. That's something that would have been noticed (like
when a 3 4th circle fighters were needed to come kill it).
Lex
Windy Dorf
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> No, no... I was riffing off of WD's "Bottom line:" and "I have to
> question" lines, in the post to which I was replying.
>
> WD is one of those folks who always posts those borderline posts -- you
> know, the kind that say "look, I don't want to cause any trouble or
> anything, and I understand that it's not you GMs' fault if you're
> morons, but I just can't figure out why anyone would be so stupid as to
> do the things you do, when you clearly want to help us and by the way I
> really like the game, but why is it your policy to beat us to death? We
> love you, please don't hurt us anymore. Signed, WD"
>
> It's often hard to figure out if there's a sincere question in there, or
> just an attempt to slam -- so it's hard to know how much effort to put
> into the reply.
You seem to have filed WD in a folder marked "borderline posts".
Also, you seem to think I have something against GMs.
Morons? Stupid? Slammed?
Borderline? I say what I say. I mean what I say. I neither have my
nose up your ass nor have I placed a burning bag of poop on your
doorstep.
You give the impression (to me) that you expect posts to be black or
white.
I don't think GMs are stupid, morons, or out-to-get-us. I think you
are human.
Call me borderline if you desire.
\action shrugs
Robin Greyhawk
>
> So far (it's Monday after the update), the GM/author/producer community
> is reasonably sure that no changes took place to cause the described
> behaviour.
>
> FWIW, we're still looking into it -- but with no one fessing-up to
> having made any changes or spawned any critters, it's hard to know where
> to look.
OK, now I'm confused. I was treating this as something planned and
part of a plot. Are you saying that it is not and that this is some
kind of bug, you just can't figure out what? The former presents an
interesting problem to be solved IC and is worth time and risk taking.
The second can't be solved and is best treated by avoiding areas until
they are fixed.
Please clarify.
Yes the distinction is important to me. I don't want to waste what
little time I have trying to solve an IC "problem" that turns out to
be a bug that goes away on it's own.
Robert
Noah
> daniel....@dcsg.com (Windy Dorf) wrote:
>
> > Bottom line: these adjustments IMHO did nothing to increase the level
> > of fun.
> > In addition to that, I have to question whether or not the experience
> > gain was worth it.
> >
> > IMHO, YMMV
> > -Windy Dorf
>
> You assume that adjustments were made, and that increased fun was the
> goal.
>
> So far (it's Monday after the update), the GM/author/producer community
> is reasonably sure that no changes took place to cause the described
> behaviour.
>
> FWIW, we're still looking into it -- but with no one fessing-up to
> having made any changes or spawned any critters, it's hard to know where
> to look.
>
> GM-A: I don't see anything -- do you see anything?
> GM-B: Nope. Did you make any changes?
> GM-A: Nope, you?
> GM-B: Nope.
> GM-A: Right. Let's grab some beers & go watch Michael fall again. He's
> the best!
> GM-B: True. True...
>
> <G>
::2 months later::
GM-B: Now I remember. I dicked with the stats awhile ago and forgot about them.
GM-A: Sucks to be Michael.
GM-B: True. True...
Michael Welsh
a361aebf.02010...@posting.google.com, the profound and prolific
Robin Greyhawk of robn...@aol.com articulated:
> The second can't be solved and is best treated by avoiding areas until
> they are fixed.
I generally treat all areas where I fall in one hit as places to be avoided.
Plot or no plot. ;-)
--
Mike
Sometimes known as Monolith in Clan Lord
http://www.deltatao.com/clanlord/index.html
"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any
language you choose." -- MST3K
Windy Dorf
On a very related topic, can you comment on the current state of
PFing?
All that would be required is a straight forward response as to
whether or not the problems that have been \bugged are not bugs.
example: the "/sleep to see the path" situation and the ability to
pass through paths without seeing sparks at all.
If you are not up to speed on the current situation with paths, please
let us know. A new thread could be begun which would certainly fill
quickly with other exile's experiences.
Thank you.
Helpful GM
no...@olteco.com (Noah) wrote:
> > FWIW, we're still looking into it -- but with no one fessing-up to
> > having made any changes or spawned any critters, it's hard to know
> > where
> > to look.
> >
> > GM-A: I don't see anything -- do you see anything?
> > GM-B: Nope. Did you make any changes?
> > GM-A: Nope, you?
> > GM-B: Nope.
> > GM-A: Right. Let's grab some beers & go watch Michael fall again.
> > He's
> > the best!
> > GM-B: True. True...
> >
> > <G>
>
> ::2 months later::
>
> GM-B: Now I remember. I dicked with the stats awhile ago and forgot
> about them.
> GM-A: Sucks to be Michael.
> GM-B: True. True...
While humourous, you skipped the part where we actually compared the
before & after files, and found no changes.
I appreciate the gag, but it's less-funny if you're the guy who has to
field all the ensuing panic. Incite riots IN GAME! <G>
Helpful GM
robn...@aol.com (Robin Greyhawk) wrote:
Remember the thing from a long time ago about how "everything is IC"?
Remember how some people don't like the idea of telling players
anything, because they mostly exaggerate when we screw up and don't seem
to appreciate when we do well, and telling them "it's all an IC plot" no
matter what just makes our lives a lot easier?
(If you don't remember any of this, ask someone.)
So, now it boils down to this: don't make me regret talking to you.
The fact of the matter is: I have no idea what happened. But there are
100 plots going on that I don't know about -- it could be all Qual's
doing, for all I know. Or Zonk. Or Chum. Wait, it's not Chum, I'm
pretty sure of that :)
Or it could be a bug. I don't know. My efforts to find out haven't
borne much fruit.
Hence, my previous: treat it as an IC event. I'm sorry if you feel
that's a waste of your time.
In the future, I won't waste any more of your time, when people raise
issues like this.
It's an IC event: solve it.
Mike
> > GM-B: Now I remember. I dicked with the stats awhile ago and forgot
> > about them.
> > GM-A: Sucks to be Michael.
> > GM-B: True. True...
>
> While humourous, you skipped the part where we actually compared the
> before & after files, and found no changes.
>
> I appreciate the gag, but it's less-funny if you're the guy who has to
> field all the ensuing panic. Incite riots IN GAME! <G>
But this HAS happened. Remember the green noid incident? (this is
exagerated, but not much)
Player (me): Why did you make the green noid harder?? Its hard
enough to pass 4th as it is for christ sake.
GM: We havent changed the Green Noid in years, you must be on drugs.
Player: Bullshit, it has almost twice the atkus now. Cant you see how
they hit Gurgi at full balance now?! You think they did that before??
GM: I checked into it, and nothing on the Green Noid has changed.
You must be just getting unlucky.
Player: (bashes head into keyboard)
<2 weeks later>
GM: Oh, it seems someone DID chang the Noid, but forgot about it.
Michael
Warren J. Dew
If newbies found a super critter we would know it, because
others would have to come in to save them. These critters
are 4-5x stronger than normal ...
Not to be contrary, but newbies fall to things 4-5x stronger than what they are
hunting all the time; typically, they go to South Forest to hunt Island
Panthers, say, and fall when a Bolok shows up.
Standard newbie operating procedure in such a situation is then to wait until
someone comes in to save them, which generally happens pretty quickly; there
are quite a few characters who specialize in this kind of rescue. No need to
call in the big guns with black belts when all you need to do is lose a Bolok
or a Maha in an adjacent snell.
Would anyone notice something so out of the ordinary if the newbie fell to a
superpanther instead of a Bolok? I think someone might say "that was a strong
IP", but I think it would generally be left at that.
It's different for the strong characters because, when they get into trouble,
there's no one who can trivially rescue them. As a result, they end up having
to depart, which makes a much bigger impression.
But there WAS a GM there, at least during the time that it
all started. All the WS got pulled back at one point remember?
I'll believe there was a GM there, given your description of the spawn. Are
you sure a GM was involved in the pull back, though? Helpful GM mentioned that
the skeleton AI had already been fixed so they didn't block doors; is it
possible that what you saw was the AI waiting for 20 minutes after the last
exile left or fell, then starting to wander around again?
Lex:
However, I don't think there has been any "super" island
panthers running around the forests. That's something that
would have been noticed (like when a 3 4th circle fighters
were needed to come kill it).
Sometimes I think the experienced people forget just how much range there is in
the lesser creatures. You don't remember when you looked forward to Island
Panthers, but ran from Bolok Cougars? Then a player month or two later, you'd
be looking forward to Bolok, but running from anything stronger than a Maha?
You wouldn't need three fourth circle fighters - or even one - to kill an
island panther that was 4-5 times normal strength. Consider how many levels of
cats there are on Puddleby Island, each about twice as strong as the previous:
Island Panther
Artak Cougar
Bolok Cougar
Maha Ruknee
Savannah Maha
Plains Maha
Cave Maha
I'm not sure about Lex, but I'm pretty sure Michael can take care of a normal
Cave Maha without too much trouble - which also means he wouldn't have too much
trouble with 'super' yellow Maha (regular and Savannah), though he might well
notice them. A mid second circle fighter should be able to take care of an
Island Panther that was 4x normal strength. A third circle fighter shouldn't
have any trouble with any 4x normal south forest creatures.
Kojiro
> little time I have trying to solve an IC "problem" that turns out to
> be a bug that goes away on it's own.
>
> Robert
Thus, Robin eloquently states the importance of game mechanics to role-play. :-)
-Kojiro
RobnSunny
>anything, because they mostly exaggerate when we screw up and don't seem
>
>to appreciate when we do well, and telling them "it's all an IC plot" no
>
>matter what just makes our lives a lot easier?
I did take it IC until you made it sound like a bug here.
>The fact of the matter is: I have no idea what happened. But there are
>
>100 plots going on that I don't know about -- it could be all Qual's
>doing, for all I know. Or Zonk. Or Chum. Wait, it's not Chum, I'm
>pretty sure of that :)
>
>Or it could be a bug. I don't know. My efforts to find out haven't
>borne much fruit.
OK, That's the clarification I was looking for. You have no idea what's going
on ;-).
>Hence, my previous: treat it as an IC event. I'm sorry if you feel
>that's a waste of your time.
Treating it as an IC event and trying to solve it are 2 different things. The
second requires time and effort the first requires just acknowledging that it
exists. Since I am short of time, I wanted to find out if this is worth
spending any of it on. The answer seems to be to wait and see if it perisists
for an update or 2. I would hate to spend a large portion of my clanning time
for the next week trying to see if this is connected to the ether only to have
the effect go away with the next update, when I could have spent my time trying
to find <censored> that I know exists.
>In the future, I won't waste any more of your time, when people raise
>issues like this.
No need to get insulted. Your first answer was not clear to me. This one was.
Thanks! Your help IS appreciated.
Robert
Sareth
> field all the ensuing panic. Incite riots IN GAME! <G>
What? You can incite riots in game? Where do I sign up to incite one? I
wanna lynch Kodo for stubbornly holding on to the "Worst Punster in
Puddleby" title!
-Sareth
Rising Claw, Bard, 2nd Circle Fighter, Pathfinder, Skinner.
Sareth
> superpanther instead of a Bolok? I think someone might say "that was a strong
> IP", but I think it would generally be left at that.
Well, for that matter, it does not even have to be a Bolok. Normally Island
Panther's are very easy slobbers for me, but on occasion they give me grief
(not enough to threaten, but enough to be inconvenient). Is that a super?
I dunno... Someone for whom Island Panthers are right around their
experience level will sometimes lose to a normal Panther, so when they fall
to a Super, how would they notice? 4 or 5 times as powerful on a creature
like an IP would be a much smaller absolute difference than on a BRO, and
thus there would be a much smaller range of people who fall within the range
needed to notice. A 4-5 times normal BRO covers a very wide range of rank.
> Lex:
>
> However, I don't think there has been any "super" island
> panthers running around the forests. That's something that
> would have been noticed (like when a 3 4th circle fighters
> were needed to come kill it).
Heh. In my experience most IPs actually get taken out by coin whores like
myself who often hunt in such packs 3 or 4 mid to high range fighters
usually wipe it out too fast to even verify it was an IP. ;)
> Sometimes I think the experienced people forget just how much range there is
> in
> the lesser creatures. You don't remember when you looked forward to Island
> Panthers, but ran from Bolok Cougars? Then a player month or two later, you'd
> be looking forward to Bolok, but running from anything stronger than a Maha?
Only a month or two? Heh, I bee takin on Bolok an still avoid Maha for 5 or
6 months! (Must be all that Skea, Dentir, and Marsh hermit...)
Sareth
> second requires time and effort the first requires just acknowledging that it
> exists. Since I am short of time, I wanted to find out if this is worth
> spending any of it on. The answer seems to be to wait and see if it perisists
> for an update or 2. I would hate to spend a large portion of my clanning time
> for the next week trying to see if this is connected to the ether only to have
> the effect go away with the next update, when I could have spent my time
> trying to find <censored> that I know exists.
Of course, in Sareth-Lord, we will never admit to bugs, simply correct it
then try to tie it into a plot during the next update to cover our asses. =D
/action puts on his flame retardant tunic.
Phelps
wrote:
> > I appreciate the gag, but it's less-funny if you're the guy who has to
> > field all the ensuing panic. Incite riots IN GAME! <G>
>
> What? You can incite riots in game? Where do I sign up to incite one? I
> wanna lynch Kodo for stubbornly holding on to the "Worst Punster in
> Puddleby" title!
Phelpses of the World Lynch Mob. Of course, you'll be bumping
torches with me and Hidden...
HWC for Phelps
obBalanceTaxSDB
--
Affiliation medals are tyranny.
Lex
> Cave Maha without too much trouble - which also means he wouldn't have too
> much
> trouble with 'super' yellow Maha (regular and Savannah), though he might well
> notice them. A mid second circle fighter should be able to take care of an
> Island Panther that was 4x normal strength. A third circle fighter shouldn't
> have any trouble with any 4x normal south forest creatures.
>
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
Numbers for example only... as are references to attack strength or number
of exiles required. As usual Warren, you provide a well thought-out
argument to the wrong question.
"Something I usually slaughter but now vanquish" would be like an island
panther with the stats of a cave maha or maybe one of the weaker lyfelidae.
It's unlikely that if a few of those were running around the forests it
would go unnoticed, even by very strong fighters.
Lex
Mike
> Island Panther
> Artak Cougar
> Bolok Cougar
> Maha Ruknee
> Savannah Maha
> Plains Maha
> Cave Maha
There is not that much of a difference between Plains Maha and Savanna
Maha, so that takes out one level. But a 2x jump is about right for the
most part on the rest.
> I'm not sure about Lex, but I'm pretty sure Michael can take care of a
> normal Cave Maha without too much trouble - which also means he wouldn't
> have too much trouble with 'super' yellow Maha (regular and Savannah),
> though he might well notice them. A mid second circle fighter should be
> able to take care of an Island Panther that was 4x normal strength. A
> third circle fighter shouldn't have any trouble with any 4x normal south
> forest creatures.
I dont think you understand how big of a jump in stats these critters
have. A super yellow Maha with 4x stats would hit me at full balance,
easy. It would also deal damage like a VP. I prolly couldnt hit it
well either. I dont think I could solo this, and there is no way a 3rd
circle could. A group of 3rds prolly couldnt even do it unless it was a
large group. It would be like them trying to take down a VP, and thats
not gonna happen easy. Boloks would prolly fight like a VC, cept they
would hit harder. I might be able to solo a weak one if i was lucky.
Trust me, these are not the kinds of things that wouldnt be out over the
SS. And since these things never spawn alone, SF would be a death trap
for anything short of a Valley Party.
Michael
Hidden
mike...@aol.com (Mike) wrote:
> Trust me, these are not the kinds of things that wouldnt be out over the
> SS. And since these things never spawn alone, SF would be a death trap
> for anything short of a Valley Party.
>
> Michael
On the other hand, SF would be great ranks, if not great coins, and very
low danger for that party.
--
His Holiness,
Hidden T. Thoom
High Priest to Mak'ros and
LIFE Explorer
Helpful GM
wrote:
> Of course, in Sareth-Lord, we will never admit to bugs, simply correct it
> then try to tie it into a plot during the next update to cover our asses.
> =D
Fyi, this is actually The Best Approach, IMO -- you just have to lie
about it, publically, and tell people that you're always up-front with
them. Very professional. REALLY! Ask any professional organization,
they'll tell you. Oh wait, they won't -- they'll lie. Shoot!
Simsu
Merlisk wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:37:21 GMT, Simsu <si...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> >Well since no one has gotten it till now I'll spill the beans... It's the
> >Ether, from the ethereal plane leaking into our plane and making beasts super
> >strong. Think about it folks.
> >
> >Now I want my "I thought out a story line award" from HGM... alone with that
> >10k bounty for hitting the nail on the head..
> >
> >Mac
>
> Heh. Well, I don't really know if you're the first because others
> have said the same thing, but it's a good observation.
>
> However, I'd be surprised if that's the sole reason. I don't know if
> there is NO connection between UI and DC, but we do know that the
> Ether has undine in it, so maybe their power is boosted by the plane's
> substance. Maybe the Darshaks have gotten the knowledge from Umbrion
> and are boosting the Undine.
>
> However, I don't see the correlation between the above and the Lyfe
> animals, but what do I know?
>
> I'm sure we'll find out in due time. Meanwhile, I'm done with DC for
> a bit. I dislike getting my butt kicked that much in one day. :)
Hey I didn't ask for a "I made sense of a GM's thought pattern" award heh... I'd
bet it's more of a "Where can we make this stuff happen to get attention" thing I
mean if myrm suddenly got 10x stronger we'd still all slaughter them and not
care. Hrm.. Maybe I should put in for a "I made sense of a GM's thought pattern"
award... HGM what do ya think?
Mac - Still waiting for the "Storyline award"
Noah
> Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > GM-B: Now I remember. I dicked with the stats awhile ago and forgot
> > > about them.
> > > GM-A: Sucks to be Michael.
> > > GM-B: True. True...
> >
> > While humourous, you skipped the part where we actually compared the
> > before & after files, and found no changes.
> >
> > I appreciate the gag, but it's less-funny if you're the guy who has to
> > field all the ensuing panic. Incite riots IN GAME! <G>
>
>
> But this HAS happened. Remember the green noid incident? (this is
> exagerated, but not much)
>
That was what I was thinking about when I wrote the post ;)
Warren J. Dew
4 or 5 times as powerful on a creature like an IP would
be a much smaller absolute difference than on a BRO, and
thus there would be a much smaller range of people who
fall within the range needed to notice. A 4-5 times
normal BRO covers a very wide range of rank.
Good point.
Only a month or two? Heh, I bee takin on Bolok an still
avoid Maha for 5 or 6 months!
You better get cracking! Only a few short weeks ago Jo Maril was vanquishing
Island Panthers, now he slaughters Ice Maha!
(Okay, just kidding. I hope.)
Shamhat de Leon
<hid...@no-op.com> wrote:
> > Trust me, these are not the kinds of things that wouldnt be out over the
> > SS. And since these things never spawn alone, SF would be a death trap
> > for anything short of a Valley Party.
> >
> > Michael
>
> On the other hand, SF would be great ranks, if not great coins, and very
> low danger for that party.
The super critters that you DID kill...how was the coinage?
-Shamhat
Windy Dorf
> In article <B860E581.C89%ses...@rmci.net>, Sareth <ses...@rmci.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Of course, in Sareth-Lord, we will never admit to bugs, simply correct it
> > then try to tie it into a plot during the next update to cover our asses.
> > =D
>
> Fyi, this is actually The Best Approach, IMO --
Hey, HGM, we agree on this! <g>
(unless the following is to point out the sarcasm...)
>you just have to lie
> about it, publically, and tell people that you're always up-front with
> them. Very professional. REALLY! Ask any professional organization,
> they'll tell you. Oh wait, they won't -- they'll lie. Shoot!
This is better than saying "until we are certain it is a bug, play it
out as though it is IC".
In WindyDorf-Lord, I as owner would urge my GM's to be inventive and
cover the situation as an IC event...as Sareth stated "tie it into a
plot during the next update". Make something interesting out of the
mix-up. I would reward my GM's for thinking on their feet in a crisis.
I have faith that the collective GM group will iron these wrinkles out
in a fun way.
8)
-WD
Babajaga
<HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> Remember the thing from a long time ago about how "everything is IC"?
Personally, I am relieved it´s a bug, and not a story element that was way
overdone, as I thought it was at first.
It´s a bug and you don´t know what´s causing it yet. Great! Now, lets
solve this thing, as it effectively shuts down many interesting places. (
We have a hard time as it is on KI, Lyfe with 4x the strength is not
really something we can do in my time zone)
Bug report in Shamhat´s format:)
On a 6 hour long rescue in DC I encountered:
* A scarmis warrior that one hit Baba to fallen state.
* She "killed" a faithless for the first time in years.
* There were wraiths and greater wraiths she couldn´t hit, and some who
kicked her butt. In addition she vanquished them. They are usually
slaughters. Also some death furies she got a vanquish on. Usually a
slaughter.
All this on friday or saturday I think.
On a valley hunt we encountered some beetles that had suped up troilus and
darkus like an Orga Frenzy - but since she still vanquishes some of them
it´s hard to tell.
Haven´t been to KI.
From what I can tell, they all seem to have the Lyfe disease - the change
that happens to the Lyfe at night on KI. A large increase in stats, but
not all of them. Some monsters in DC were of the regular sort. Which makes
it so weird.
Players with older characters, like me for example, usually have a pretty
good judgement on what they can expect from any given creature - even
calculated the normal variance in monster strength. Of course, against
creatures the character usually slaughters it becomes quite evident.
tovemi
--
Babajaga Vanimalda, the Fleet <http://www.red-quill.com/babajaga/>
Fellowship of the Red Quill <http://www.red-quill.com/>
remove the SPERRE to reply
Helpful GM
baba...@SPERREred-quill.com (Babajaga) wrote:
> It愀 a bug and you don愒 know what愀 causing it yet. Great!
You are mistaken.
A more correct way of summarising might have been:
"[I] don't know what's causing it, yet."
to say "It's a bug... great! Let's solve it" is foolhardy. *I*'m
certainly not going to be the one to take credit for shutting down a
very interesting plot-device because Tove refused to play-along...
["bug" report, snipped]
...Your observations are appreciated, though.
Thanks!
Mike
> A more correct way of summarising might have been:
>
> "[I] don't know what's causing it, yet."
>
> to say "It's a bug... great! Let's solve it" is foolhardy. *I*'m
> certainly not going to be the one to take credit for shutting down a
> very interesting plot-device because Tove refused to play-along...
>
> ["bug" report, snipped]
>
> ...Your observations are appreciated, though.
>
> Thanks!
Havent you been hearing us? Its not interesting, its not fun. MAYBE if
it was confined to one place (so i could stay the fuck away) it wouldnt
be so bad. But this not knowing what place your going to be forced to
depart from next is not fun. Having no chance at all or being fallen
for 6 hours is not fun either.
Michael
Mike
We couldnt kill any of the lyfes, even with 3 6th circle fighters there
(they were troilusing faster than a beetle). The only super critters
that I was there for killing was some sas, and their fur was not 4x
bigger than normal.
Michael
Babajaga
<HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> A more correct way of summarising might have been:
>
> "[I] don't know what's causing it, yet."
>
> to say "It's a bug... great! Let's solve it" is foolhardy. *I*'m
> certainly not going to be the one to take credit for shutting down a
> very interesting plot-device because Tove refused to play-along...
Erm.
Tove and Baba are two different entities. What Baba thinks are completly
irrelevant when I post as tovemi. Baba has her own explanation.
*I* however, would rather it be a bug than a story element. Because as
such I think it´s poorly implemented and way overdone, tipping the
balancescale between fun and frustration in the wrong direction. If that
is a GM´s way of "fun" then we are in strong disagreement.
Refer to the reply you made to Mike a way back - something about "it´s not
fun to be hitting a brick wall again and again".
Michael Welsh
babajaga-090...@158.36.159.85, the profound and prolific Babajaga
of baba...@SPERREred-quill.com articulated:
> Refer to the reply you made to Mike a way back - something about "it愀 not
> fun to be hitting a brick wall again and again".
Yes, and even less fun if the brick wall keeps hitting you! :-)
--
Mike HWC for Monolith
"We've secretly replaced the Pacific Ocean with Folgers crystals ..." ---
Tom Servo, "Mighty Jack" MST3K
Helpful GM
baba...@SPERREred-quill.com (Babajaga) wrote:
> In article <HelpfulGM-E8EB8...@ca.news.verio.net>, Helpful GM
> <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
>
> > A more correct way of summarising might have been:
> >
> > "[I] don't know what's causing it, yet."
> >
> > to say "It's a bug... great! Let's solve it" is foolhardy. *I*'m
> > certainly not going to be the one to take credit for shutting down a
> > very interesting plot-device because Tove refused to play-along...
> Tove and Baba are two different entities. What Baba thinks are completly
> irrelevant when I post as tovemi. Baba has her own explanation.
>
> *I* however, would rather it be a bug than a story element. Because as
> such I think it´s poorly implemented and way overdone, tipping the
> balancescale between fun and frustration in the wrong direction. If that
> is a GM´s way of "fun" then we are in strong disagreement.
>
> Refer to the reply you made to Mike a way back - something about "it´s not
> fun to be hitting a brick wall again and again".
>
> tovemi
Oh, on this, we are in 100% agreement.
...But that doesn't mean it's not a plot-device <G>. Not all the GMs
are as billiant or even-handed as I or you would be ;)
Wanting it to be a bug "because, if it's story, it's a really bad one"
doesn't make it a bug. It MIGHT be a bug, but it might not -- that's
all I'm saying.
To default to treating it like a bug seems backwards, to me -- but I'm
not one to tell you (collective) how to play, do whatever makes you
happiest.
Heh. I suppose you could treat all poorly-run stories as bugs, and just
ignore that they ever happened. But now aren't we back to the RW v RP
thread, and collective reality, and all that? <G>
Babajaga
<HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> To default to treating it like a bug seems backwards, to me -- but I'm
> not one to tell you (collective) how to play, do whatever makes you
> happiest.
>
> Heh. I suppose you could treat all poorly-run stories as bugs, and just
> ignore that they ever happened. But now aren't we back to the RW v RP
> thread, and collective reality, and all that? <G>
It´s , hopefully, a bug to *me*. Baba´s knowledge of bugs is the one who
looks weird and lives on KI. It can be both a bug, AND a story, all at
the same time. One doesn´t exclude the other.
Two in one. Frodo and Tolkien;)
Warren J. Dew
Personally, I am relieved it愀 a bug, and not a story element
that was way overdone, as I thought it was at first.
Actually, Helpful GM didn't say it was a bug. He said, basically, that "no
gamesmaster has admitted to doing it purposefully."
This leaves open the following explanations, which are not mutually exclusive:
(1) It was a bug.
(2) It was a GM behaving so egregiously that he won't admit to it now.
(3) It was a weird manifestation of the random number generator - unlikely,
but possible. Computer 'random number generators' have weird long term
patterns, as well as weird short term patterns.
Er, add (2a): It was a GM behaving what he considers to be 'normally' for a
GM, but he doesn't play very often, so this doesn't happen very often.
I'm concerned that if it is (2), the GM in question, if pressed, might end up
justifying his behavior by turning it into a shoddily overdone story element;
I'm even more concerned that some players seem to think this is better than his
admitting his mistake and working on well done story or world elements,
instead. Do we really want standard GM behavior to be "have fun upsetting the
players, then cover your tracks by turning it into a story element"?
By the way, has anyone been back to the areas and seen if they are still
problematic? If the explanation is (3), the areas are probably back to normal
now.
Maeght
mike...@aol.com (Mike) wrote:
> Havent you been hearing us? Its not interesting, its not fun. MAYBE if
> it was confined to one place (so i could stay the fuck away) it wouldnt
> be so bad. But this not knowing what place your going to be forced to
> depart from next is not fun. Having no chance at all or being fallen
> for 6 hours is not fun either.
Mike, you've not been listening to HGM. Since CL is designed to be fun,
it is clearly you that have the wrong attitude about what you're
experiencing.
It works ever so nicely that what the GMs do is definied to be fun.
- Maeght
Helpful GM
<awes...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Cite, please.
The only part Michael hasn't been hearing from HGM is the part where
I've repeatedly said "got it, looking into it, I'll see what I can do."
On the other hand, it *IS* convenient to be the one to define "fun".
It's good to be king. Or so I'm told.
Here's one for you -- just to see if I'd lose that nickel, if we ever
actually did it...
To make CL more fun, we should:
( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
[Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
---
( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
halving the money flow.)
( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
---
( ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
as we do now.
( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
as we do now.
( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
on with it.
( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
let them get on with it.
( ) Leave the GMs as they are
---
( ) Boot all the RPers
( ) Recruit more RPers
( ) Boot all the RWs
( ) Recruit more RWs
---
( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
( ) Leave the areas how they are
( ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
halls
( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
Windy Dorf
> tovemi responds to Helpful GM:
>
> Personally, I am relieved it愀 a bug, and not a story element
> that was way overdone, as I thought it was at first.
>
> Actually, Helpful GM didn't say it was a bug. He said, basically, that "no
> gamesmaster has admitted to doing it purposefully."
>
> This leaves open the following explanations, which are not mutually exclusive:
>
> (1) It was a bug.
>
> (2) It was a GM behaving so egregiously that he won't admit to it now.
>
From a non-programmer standpoint I ask: Is there one person in the
DT-CL organization (paid or volunteer) that is responsible for knowing
all of the storylines and adjustments in order to provide a measure of
consistancy throughout the game? Does a GM have to keep records of his
activities in the event that (heavin forbid) one day that certain GM
dissapears?
Again, I am not a programmer.
Would it be possible to find out who had access to the server during
the period when the /bugs started? If not, is this something that
would be hard to set up?
I guess something like a loggin.
Another thing I'm wondering: can GMs mess with each others areas? Or
more importantly, can they affect a large part of the game world on a
whim?
> (3) It was a weird manifestation of the random number generator - unlikely,
> but possible. Computer 'random number generators' have weird long term
> patterns, as well as weird short term patterns.
I think it was Thursday or Friday when I became aware of the...issues.
Can it be tracked as far back as the storm?
Something which may be important:
When on one of the first DC rescues, (as Mike relayed before) the
super critters seemed to "pull back" atr a certain point, as though
something was controling them. There were messages in the side-bar
about some sort of "darkness" occurring. Also, after our best fighters
wiffed a super wraith for quite a long period, and the critter kept
Troilusing, it suddenly went from green to dead in an instant, as
though it was "turned off".
> Er, add (2a): It was a GM behaving what he considers to be 'normally' for a
> GM, but he doesn't play very often, so this doesn't happen very often.
>
> I'm concerned that if it is (2), the GM in question, if pressed, might end up
> justifying his behavior by turning it into a shoddily overdone story element;
> I'm even more concerned that some players seem to think this is better than his
> admitting his mistake and working on well done story or world elements,
> instead. Do we really want standard GM behavior to be "have fun upsetting the
> players, then cover your tracks by turning it into a story element"?
>
Warren, did you read HGM's response to Robin's post a few back?
In part:
>>Or it could be a bug. I don't know. My efforts to find out haven't
>>borne much fruit.
>>Hence, my previous: treat it as an IC event. I'm sorry if you feel
>>that's a waste of your time.
>>In the future, I won't waste any more of your time, when people
raise
>>issues like this.
>>It's an IC event: solve it.
Would you rather players follow this advice? I am being serious here.
I know many people who are plain avoiding the areas for fear that its
a major bug. Mr Robin's time concerns aside, many would find it very
unfun if having pursued this as IC, ended up departing (albeit in
itself their fault for puting theirselves at risk) a couple
times...just to learn a week later that it was in fact a bug.
The rescues I was a part of in the effected areas had a silver lining
in my mind.
It showed how compassionate many exiles are when their comrads are in
perril.
These rescues took close to days (IC) to perform, and in light of the
griping, it showed the dedication of individual players. Not only do
exiles wish to not have to depart, the majority (in my eyes) of
Puddleby's population cringes when one of their fellows is pushed to
that extreme.
I believe that OOC, most players genuinely care about each other.
-Just my on-the-fence opinions <g>
WD
Windy Dorf
( ) Finish all quest designs
( ) Have a point person to keep track of what each GM is working on, has
finished or has tossed-aside as unfinished
( ) Have a contest for exiles to design a new town center area. To be viewed on
the DT site and voted on Poll like when they sign on.
( ) Remove the progress reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank" messages
as you gain them. (progress would be judged by testing and everyday activities
like hunting and healing.
My 2c.
WD
Maeght
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> In article <awessels-B08167...@news.supernews.com>, Maeght
> <awes...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <1f5qvj2.14drkzp1ib53y8N%mike...@aol.com>,
> > mike...@aol.com (Mike) wrote:
> >
> > > Havent you been hearing us? Its not interesting, its not fun. MAYBE if
> > > it was confined to one place (so i could stay the fuck away) it wouldnt
> > > be so bad. But this not knowing what place your going to be forced to
> > > depart from next is not fun. Having no chance at all or being fallen
> > > for 6 hours is not fun either.
>
> > Mike, you've not been listening to HGM. Since CL is designed to be fun,
> > it is clearly you that have the wrong attitude about what you're
> > experiencing.
> >
> > It works ever so nicely that what the GMs do is definied to be fun.
> >
> > - Maeght
>
> Cite, please.
If it was a quote, I'da put the funny marks around it.
> The only part Michael hasn't been hearing from HGM is the part where
> I've repeatedly said "got it, looking into it, I'll see what I can do."
It is the part between the lines I'm pointing out.
> On the other hand, it *IS* convenient to be the one to define "fun".
> It's good to be king. Or so I'm told.
Lets call it CL-fun.
> Here's one for you -- just to see if I'd lose that nickel, if we ever
> actually did it...
>
> To make CL more fun, we should:
>
> ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
>
> [Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
> spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
(X) mark the XP code experimental and see where it sits on the
resource allocation queue (AND ADMIT IT)
I think the above question is a false dilemma. I'm a munchkin if I pick
#1, my credibility would be called into question if #2, and that leaves
#3 which serves your argument.
> ( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
> ( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
> ( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
> halving the money flow.)
> ( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
>
(X) relate coins of furs to clothing costs and create an economy
> ---
>
> ( ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
> on with it.
> ( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
> let them get on with it.
> ( ) Leave the GMs as they are
(X) change what the GMs are doing with their time
ex: spend more time scripting NPCs to aid the clue-impaired
> ---
>
> ( ) Boot all the RPers
> ( ) Recruit more RPers
>
> ( ) Boot all the RWs
> ( ) Recruit more RWs
(X) make more items to assist RPers
I don't think RWs need any special dispensation. I also don't think RWs
should have any "traps" set for them. RWs don't deserve special
attention at all, and that includes any assumed right to a particular
level of rank gain.
> ( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
>
> ( ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
> halls
> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
(X) put out more "builders" both near potential buildings and
near the wilderness. Make NPCs that "listen" to player
"hints".
my 2 coins worth,
- Maeght
Mike
> ( ) Remove the progress reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank"
> messages as you gain them. (progress would be judged by testing and
> everyday activities like hunting and healing.
Never work because they fuck with critters every week. Thats also the
reason they keep the hard numbers from us. If we had hard numbers it
wouldnt be so hard to spot the smaller tweaks that they are always
making to critters to make then more "fun" or something.
Michael
Mike
>
> To make CL more fun, we should:
>
> ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
For the most part the exp system is ok. But players at the highest
levels should still be able to advance from playing, and this just isnt
the case mostly.
> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
That one.
>
> ( ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
> on with it.
> ( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
> let them get on with it.
> ( ) Leave the GMs as they are
I like GM driven stories, you just need to finish some of them.
>
> ( ) Boot all the RPers
> ( ) Recruit more RPers
>
> ( ) Boot all the RWs
> ( ) Recruit more RWs
>
Take a wild guess on my answer here.
>
> ( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
>
> ( ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
> halls
> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
New places are always a good thing. Just stop fucking up the old ones.
Michael
Sareth
>
> ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
>
> [Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
> spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
(X) Not my focus.
> ---
>
> ( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
> ( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
> ( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
> halving the money flow.)
> (X) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
>
> ---
>
> (X) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
> on with it.
> ( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
> let them get on with it.
> ( ) Leave the GMs as they are
>
> ---
>
> ( ) Boot all the RPers
> (X) Recruit more RPers
>
> ( ) Boot all the RWs
> ( ) Recruit more RWs
>
> ---
>
> ( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
>
> (X) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
> halls
> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
-Sareth
Rising Claw, Bard, 2nd Circle Fighter, Pathfinder, Skinner.
Sareth
> keep the "rank" messages as you gain them. (progress would be judged by
> testing and everyday activities like hunting and healing.
Gotta say this is a somewhat confusing statement. "Remove the progress
reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank" messages as you gain them."
Sounds like you want to gag the NPCs, while keeping the sidebar notes which
allow exact counts. However, progress would be judged by testing and
everyday activities like hunting and healing." Make it sound like you want
to keep the NPC's saying "You keep me on my toes," but get rid of the side
bar messages so you have to judge your progress by how you actually perform
in the field. I'm for the second option.
Just my vote, not an ultimatum! ;)
Sareth
>>
>> ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
>> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
>> ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
>>
>> [Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
>> spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
>
> (X) mark the XP code experimental and see where it sits on the
> resource allocation queue (AND ADMIT IT)
>
> I think the above question is a false dilemma. I'm a munchkin if I pick
> #1, my credibility would be called into question if #2, and that leaves
> #3 which serves your argument.
Which is why he specifically tells you you may feel free to add another
option. Illegal Tackle! Ten Yard Penalty! First Down! ;)
>> ( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
>> ( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
>> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
>> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
>> ( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
>> halving the money flow.)
>> ( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
>>
>
> (X) relate coins of furs to clothing costs and create an economy
I like this suggestion. To go further, don't give coins when you kill a
creature. Give an actual item (fur) which may be traded, sold, or turned
into clothing. It's doable, as this is how Albino Maha Ruhknee cloaks are
made (correct me if I'm wrong.) It would make people like Sareth actually
have to hunt what is in demand. I think this would add an amusing level of
challenge to Coin Whores like myself.
>> ---
>>
>> ( ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
>> as we do now.
>> ( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
>> as we do now.
>> ( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
>> on with it.
>> ( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
>> let them get on with it.
>> ( ) Leave the GMs as they are
>
> (X) change what the GMs are doing with their time
> ex: spend more time scripting NPCs to aid the clue-impaired
Agreed, to an extent. While I'd like to see more plots, I'd also like to
see them as faster paced and more player-solvable. Having the GM's leave a
plot dormant for months, then just hand someone a Separ or Explosive potion
seems a tad anti-climactic.
>> ---
>>
>> ( ) Boot all the RPers
>> ( ) Recruit more RPers
>>
>> ( ) Boot all the RWs
>> ( ) Recruit more RWs
>
> (X) make more items to assist RPers
>
> I don't think RWs need any special dispensation. I also don't think RWs
> should have any "traps" set for them. RWs don't deserve special
> attention at all, and that includes any assumed right to a particular
> level of rank gain.
I agree. Seems to me, if I remember correctly, the recent argument started
as a discussion about various peoples views regarding super special daggers
of destruction that couldn't have real effect, thus requiring others to buy
into their "use". More actual mechanics for these sorts of things could
help reduce such misunderstandings.
>> ( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
>> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
>> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
>>
>> ( ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
>> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
>> halls
>> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
>
> (X) put out more "builders" both near potential buildings and
> near the wilderness. Make NPCs that "listen" to player
> "hints".
Yup. Essentially asking the players what they want in their town. A good
form of in game feedback.
> - Maeght
Some good thoughts there, Maeght. Wish Id'a come up with 'em.
Helpful GM
<awes...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > Here's one for you -- just to see if I'd lose that nickel, if we ever
> > actually did it...
> >
> > To make CL more fun, we should:
> >
> > ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
> > ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> > ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
> >
> > [Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
> > spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
>
> (X) mark the XP code experimental and see where it sits on the
> resource allocation queue (AND ADMIT IT)
>
> I think the above question is a false dilemma. I'm a munchkin if I pick
> #1, my credibility would be called into question if #2, and that leaves
> #3 which serves your argument.
The fact that you may be a munchkin, or lack credibility, or that I may
be right does not make something a false dilema.
Mark the XP code experimental?! See where it sits on the resource
allocation queue?! Where it sits is "nowhere" -- it hasn't changed
significantly in eons. It's about the least experimental thing out
there. Ask anyone how many ranks you get per week of play/not-play if
you have 0, 100, 500 or 1000 ranks. I bet the answers don't vary by
more than a handful.
> (X) relate coins of furs to clothing costs and create an economy
Do you mean a closed economy? I'm all for that! I don't think anyone
else would like it, though.
> (X) change what the GMs are doing with their time
> ex: spend more time scripting NPCs to aid the clue-impaired
What do your clue-NPCs do?
> (X) make more items to assist RPers
I was going to list that, but then it seemed like it needed to be an
essay question.
What tools do you want?
> (X) put out more "builders" both near potential buildings and
> near the wilderness. Make NPCs that "listen" to player
> "hints".
What buildings do you want?
What builders (I assume they go with your desired buildings)?
What does "listen to player hints" mean? As in
Maegnt: "sure would be nice to get a pool hall
built right about here, eh?"
NPC: Don't you know it! I'll work on permits, right away.
Like that? I think that might be what the election hall is for. Not
that you'd be able to tell, the way people run elections... Maybe it's
what Vagile's top-50 list is for. Either way, a good way to get things
started is to just tell me/us what buildings you want. Builders to see
if anyone else wants the same thing are cheap.
Helpful GM
wrote:
> Gotta say this is a somewhat confusing statement. "Remove the progress
> reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank" messages as you gain them."
* you feel smarter."
Lex
> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
I think XP gain is about right for many things. However, it might be better
to allow more than 10 tags on a creature or allowing more shares, possibly
keeping 5 "open" shares and allow a couple more for healers only. It sounds
weird but it would help. When recruiting for a difficult hunt, it sucks
when you have to get as many fighters as you can, but not more than 10, and
not more than 5 healers.
Sure, you can have 6 healers, but what ends up happening is the one running
critters or rod point gets rotated out of many shares because they're not
directly healing fighters, and even though they do a lot of work they get
the least experience. I don't think allowing more shares would be
unbalancing.
> ( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
> ( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
> ( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
> halving the money flow.)
> ( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
I don't know what should be done, but... something. Any fighter still gets
more coins solo hunting the forests than anywhere else. This means that one
high level fighter who slaughters everything in the NWF can clear it in 20
minutes, and people who might get XP there and enjoy it as a challenging
area never find anything to hunt.
> ( ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
I guarantee adding more areas will not be thought of as un-fun. Can't go
wrong with more areas. Even adding a 2nd snell to the lily pond would be
great. The savanna REALLY needs to be 5X bigger. One group or a high level
solo hunter is about all it can support right now.
There could also be a better way to have spawns reflect how much hunting is
going on in an area. If everything is killed turn the spawns up a little
bit. Not sure if it's possible - just a thought.
> ( ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
> halls
> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
Can you elaborate on this one?
Lex
Helpful GM
> Gotta say this is a somewhat confusing statement. "Remove the progress
> reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank" messages as you gain them.
I think they're saying get rid of "toes" and "bows" but keep the "* you
feel smarter" messages.
Maeght
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> The fact that you may be a munchkin, or lack credibility, or that I may
> be right does not make something a false dilema.
That is true. But offering those as the options sets the stage for
certain kinds of assumptions.
I have learned that what you don't say is far more telling than what you
do say.
> Mark the XP code experimental?! See where it sits on the resource
> allocation queue?! Where it sits is "nowhere" -- it hasn't changed
> significantly in eons. It's about the least experimental thing out
Ah, so it's "done"? Then why ask the question?
> there. Ask anyone how many ranks you get per week of play/not-play if
> you have 0, 100, 500 or 1000 ranks. I bet the answers don't vary by
> more than a handful.
"Everyone knows" newbies get more ranks/time than oldtimers.
>
> > (X) relate coins of furs to clothing costs and create an economy
>
> Do you mean a closed economy? I'm all for that! I don't think anyone
> else would like it, though.
If it were done right, they might. As these things usually get
implemented, of course not.
>
> > (X) change what the GMs are doing with their time
> > ex: spend more time scripting NPCs to aid the clue-impaired
>
> What do your clue-NPCs do?
Same thing NPCs do now, but with a little more give and take. Saying
the right thing might give additional clues, with some variation allowed
in the keyphrase.
>
> > (X) make more items to assist RPers
>
> I was going to list that, but then it seemed like it needed to be an
> essay question.
RPers don't need much. Throw em a bone every now and then (even
literally - for Spot, say.)
> > (X) put out more "builders" both near potential buildings and
> > near the wilderness. Make NPCs that "listen" to player
> > "hints".
>
> What buildings do you want?
I'm a coinwh*re. I want everyone else to be happy and spend less time
hunting *my* coins.
> What builders (I assume they go with your desired buildings)?
I want an NPC I can bump that tracks bumps and tells GMs, "work here".
(Please don't take this too literally)
> What does "listen to player hints" mean? As in
>
> Maegnt: "sure would be nice to get a pool hall
> built right about here, eh?"
> NPC: Don't you know it! I'll work on permits, right away.
More as in:
NPC: "What do you hear lately, Maeght?"
Maeght: "Haven't seen an invasion in quite a while. I wonder what the
Orga are up to."
<dutyGM reads NPC log and updates the GM knowledgebase>
> Like that? I think that might be what the election hall is for. Not
> that you'd be able to tell, the way people run elections... Maybe it's
> what Vagile's top-50 list is for. Either way, a good way to get things
> started is to just tell me/us what buildings you want. Builders to see
> if anyone else wants the same thing are cheap.
Too OOC for me, and I'm not even an RPer.
- Maeght
Lex
>> reports of the trainers, but keep the "rank" messages as you gain them.
>
> I think they're saying get rid of "toes" and "bows" but keep the "* you
> feel smarter" messages.
I took it to mean get rid of the "you are making progress, Evus will be
pleased" but keep the "you seem to fight more effectively" message. This
would mean you would see your progress one rank at a time instead of a
fraction of a rank.
Personally, I prefer the partial rank awareness. It's one of the few ways I
have to know I've been doing well getting experience.
Lex
Maeght
wrote:
> Which is why he specifically tells you you may feel free to add another
> option. Illegal Tackle! Ten Yard Penalty! First Down! ;)
Yes, but the options he lists indicate his general point of view. If it
is trivial to come up with other options and he doesn't do it, what does
that say about his post of what certainly seems to me to be a false set
of options?
> I like this suggestion. To go further, don't give coins when you kill a
> creature. Give an actual item (fur) which may be traded, sold, or turned
> into clothing. It's doable, as this is how Albino Maha Ruhknee cloaks are
> made (correct me if I'm wrong.) It would make people like Sareth actually
> have to hunt what is in demand. I think this would add an amusing level of
> challenge to Coin Whores like myself.
Yep. How about a suit of Tor-shell armor? We need more manufacturing
skills before the economy would really take off. There are even wannabe
farmers among us.
> Agreed, to an extent. While I'd like to see more plots, I'd also like to
> see them as faster paced and more player-solvable. Having the GM's leave a
> plot dormant for months, then just hand someone a Separ or Explosive potion
> seems a tad anti-climactic.
The problem with quick ones is that the solution gets passed around
quickly. Ditto for one in which the goal changes but a general strategy
works.
I want to use GM-time efficiently.
> I agree. Seems to me, if I remember correctly, the recent argument started
> as a discussion about various peoples views regarding super special daggers
> of destruction that couldn't have real effect, thus requiring others to buy
> into their "use". More actual mechanics for these sorts of things could
> help reduce such misunderstandings.
Yep.
> Yup. Essentially asking the players what they want in their town. A good
> form of in game feedback.
Yeppers. I've been *really really really* bugged about the comments of
that talking noid for about an eon now.
- Maeght
Ashe
> > (X) relate coins of furs to clothing costs and create an economy
>
> I like this suggestion. To go further, don't give coins when you kill a
> creature. Give an actual item (fur) which may be traded, sold, or turned
> into clothing. It's doable, as this is how Albino Maha Ruhknee cloaks are
> made (correct me if I'm wrong.) It would make people like Sareth actually
> have to hunt what is in demand. I think this would add an amusing level of
> challenge to Coin Whores like myself.
and drive the rest of us insane. the fur system is currently designed
exactly so the above is not necessary. Let's keep it that way.
having said that, I have no problem with more "uniquish" furs that can
be used to create more "uniquish" items of clothing.
--
Ashe
Witch, First Class
Sisters of Benevolence
Founding Member of SKA
Hidden
Helpful GM <HelpfulGM@*NO-SPAM*PlayNaked.com> wrote:
> To make CL more fun, we should:
>
> ( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
> ( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
> (ˆ) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
Leave it just like it is.
> [Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
> spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
> ( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
> ( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
> ( ) Make all critters give coins according to their
> level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
> ( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
> halving the money flow.)
> ( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
(ˆ) Other: _Make higher level hunting grounds produce more coins
as compared to the number of people needed to hunt there. Leave lower
level hunting grounds as they are, but perhaps discourage 6th circlers
soloing NWF for coins somehow._
> ---
>
> (ˆ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
Note that I'm not saying GMs should spend all their time entertaining
players. That would suck. But at least one GM driven event/real life day
would be kinda cool
> ( ) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
> as we do now.
> ( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
> on with it.
> ( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
> let them get on with it.
> ( ) Leave the GMs as they are
>
> ---
>
> ( ) Boot all the RPers
> ( ) Recruit more RPers
(ˆ) Other: _Give the RPers more options, and better support.
Offer free creative writing courses, so they can start sounding more
like Tolkein than Spielberg_
> ( ) Boot all the RWs
> ( ) Recruit more RWs
(ˆ) Give the RWs a reason to roleplay. Doesn't have to be
positive reinforcement, but has to be a reason. Perhaps take away ranks
for RWs disturbing obviously-RP situations and being jackasses.
> ---
>
> (ˆ) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
More to explore is ALWAYS good. What would be even better is a whole new
set of areas outside the island chain, but I know that's a long way off.
I yearn for the feeling of discovery and adventure I had when I was a
newbie, but having all the locations I commonly visit memorized kinda
ruins that. Make places that might take real-life days to get to from
town, so that those of us who have the time and inclination can go
explore them.
Take away ranks from anyone who whines about screwing people who can
only play in 10 minute segments once every full moon.
> ( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
> ( ) Leave the areas how they are
>
> (ˆ) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
Yes! Yes! Yes! More areas == more fun-of-discovery == more fun.
Remember, make expansive areas that don't necessarily have to be packed
with creatures, but are in themselves interesting, and take more than
one chaos storm to map, even without slowdowns.
> ( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
> halls
> ( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
--
It burns when I ruminate :(
Warren J. Dew
To make CL more fun, we should:
( ) Approximately double the rate of XP gain
( ) Approximately halve the rate of XP gain
(X) Leave the XP system exactly as it is
[Note: No intentional false-delemas, here -- if you
spot one, feel free to add ( ) Other: ____ ]
Actually, I would change it mildly: I would allow people to assign more than
one share to another character. That way, groups smaller than 10 fighters and
5 healers could still attract pure healers. Alternatively, share any number of
people, and split up your 50% share budget evenly among all of them.
I'd probably make other tweaks, too, for example to the library system. But
the overall rate of experience gain is probably about right.
---
( ) Approximately double the coins critters give
( ) Approximately halve the coins critters give
(X) Make all critters give coins according to their
level (approximately doubling the money flow.)
( ) Reduce the critters that give coins (approximately
halving the money flow.)
( ) Leave critter-coining exactly as it is
I'm assuming that making the critters give coins according to level would
increase the coins from higher level critters. This would mean that more
powerful characters would start coin hunting more dangerous areas, leaving the
less dangerous areas for less powerful characters, which I believe would be
more fun for everyone.
If I'm wrong about my assumption, move my check to the last option.
---
( ) Have about 2ce as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
as we do now.
(X) Have about half as much GM-driven story/plot/RP
as we do now.
( ) Get rid of all the GMs and let the players get
on with it.
( ) Get about 2ce as many GMs as we have now, and
let them get on with it.
( ) Leave the GMs as they are
Need to get the GM manpower for new areas from somewhere.
---
( ) Boot all the RPers
( ) Recruit more RPers
( ) Boot all the RWs
( ) Recruit more RWs
False dichotomy here.
---
(X) Open about 2ce as many areas as we have now
( ) Close off about 1/2 the areas
( ) Leave the areas how they are
(X) Open more cities, libraries, training camps
( ) Reduce the current city, libraries, training
halls
( ) Leave town/service situation as it is
I think you'll get a variety of opinions on the other ones, but I suspect most
players will be in agreement here.