PC Exonerated!
Sean MacUisdin
an announcement in the next few days concerning the exoneration of
Prince Charlie and the consideration of returning some of the forfeited
lands and titles to the chiefs and nobles that participated in the '45!
So I asks myself, WHAT IS UP WITH THIS???????
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
... The heroes of the race of Conn are dead,
How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them!
We shall not live long after them,
Perilous we think it to be bereaved of the brotherhood!
Cathal MacMhuirich
"Well, I'm sick of this room and everyone in it!" - Bender
"Everything's gone wrong since Canada came along!" - MAC (Mothers
against Canada)
Odysseus
Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> I read in the Times this morning that Buckingham Palace will be making
> an announcement in the next few days concerning the exoneration of
> Prince Charlie and the consideration of returning some of the forfeited
> lands and titles to the chiefs and nobles that participated in the '45!
>
> So I asks myself, WHAT IS UP WITH THIS???????
Looked at your calendar recently? ;)
__________
--Odysseus
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Sean MacUisdin
>
> In article <38E69393...@home.com>,
> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> > I read in the Times this morning that Buckingham Palace will be making
> > an announcement in the next few days concerning the exoneration of
> > Prince Charlie and the consideration of returning some of the forfeited
> > lands and titles to the chiefs and nobles that participated in the '45!
> >
> > So I asks myself, WHAT IS UP WITH THIS???????
>
> Looked at your calendar recently? ;)
The Glenallan
I do not await Her Majesty's pleasure, nor she mine. (We have that
understanding)
I am the *Glenallan of Clydesdale* and that I shall remain for all Time.
Regards
The Glenallan
--------------------
The heroes of the race of Conn are not dead,
Jim Bowery
chromosome haplotype analysis in the not too distant future. And it also
means a lot of people are going to start "mewling", to appropriately use
one of your more overused and abused favorites, about how bad and evil and
"racist" it is to exhume bodies of dead nobles for the purpose of such
haplotype analysis.
It will be immensely amusing for some; enlightening for all.
The fun has already begun.
http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/fantasy/stuart.htm
http://sites.internetcorp.net/~mcferran/kingindex.htm
and, finally, the surprise jack in the box:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/385467.asp
Quoting one early result:
" More than 98 percent of men with Gaelic names in western Ireland had
haplogroup 1 but numbers dropped drastically on the east of the Emerald
Isle.
Much further east in Turkey only 1.8 percent of men carry
haplogroup 1."
Oh, by the way, ever hear of Brian Sykes?
--
The promotion of politics exterminates apolitical genes in the population.
The promotion of frontiers gives apolitical genes a route to survival.
Change the tools and you change the rules.
Sean MacUisdin
(snip excessive whining)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.............
Jim Bowery
(snip incipient mewling)
TCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAG.....
Sean MacUisdin
Prat..... hehehehehehehehehehehehe.......
Steven & Julie Akins of that Ilk
Sean MacUisdin wrote in message <38E69393...@home.com>...
>I read in the Times this morning that Buckingham Palace will be making
>an announcement in the next few days concerning the exoneration of
>Prince Charlie and the consideration of returning some of the forfeited
>lands and titles to the chiefs and nobles that participated in the '45!
>
>So I asks myself, WHAT IS UP WITH THIS???????
April Fool's Day journalism?
Steven Akins of that Ilk
sja...@sonet.net
Jim Bowery
: Jim Bowery wrote:
:>
:> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
:
: (snip braying explosion of tears)
: Prat..... hehehehehehehehehehehehe.......
As I said, "the fun has already begun."
"and, finally, the surprise jack in the box:"
"TCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAG....."
It will be immensely amusing to see look on your face when the coiled up
joker is springs from your nuclei because that particular joke will last
all year long and for many more to come.
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> : Jim Bowery wrote:
> :>
> :> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> :
> : (snip braying explosion of tears)
>
> : Prat..... hehehehehehehehehehehehe.......
>
> As I said, "the fun has already begun."
Actually, it began a while ago - the second you started drooling in the
ng.
> "and, finally, the surprise jack in the box:"
>
> "TCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAGTCAG....."
>
> It will be immensely amusing to see look on your face when the coiled up
> joker is springs from your nuclei because that particular joke will last
> all year long and for many more to come.
Well, it's likely highly amusing for you as it bounces around that
vacuous cranium of yours, but like everything else about your pee wit
and flaccid intellect, it's as predictable as it is dull.
Now, when are you going to explain the clan connection and point out all
the missing MacGregors hiding in Zimbabwe, prat?
Jim Bowery
: Now, when are you going to explain the clan connection and point out all
: the missing MacGregors hiding in Zimbabwe, prat?
The MacGregors, as you well know, were forced to go underground and/or
flee to the new world. More than most, MacGregors lost their clan
identity. The ongoing clearances, starting with the feu fees of the
lowlands and continuing on today in the "farming crisis" in the new world
as well as, now, the Zimbabwe farm occupation are all aspects of that
continual disruption.
It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor. Many
in Zimbabwe may be MacGregors, without the name of an official sept. In
any case, I am not limiting limit my efforts to that clan. There is more
to clan identity than surname, despite what you say.
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> : Now, when are you going to explain the clan connection and point out all
> : the missing MacGregors hiding in Zimbabwe, prat?
>
> The MacGregors, as you well know, were forced to go underground and/or
> flee to the new world. More than most, MacGregors lost their clan
> identity. The ongoing clearances, starting with the feu fees of the
> lowlands and continuing on today in the "farming crisis" in the new world
> as well as, now, the Zimbabwe farm occupation are all aspects of that
> continual disruption.
Hahahahahahaha - no answer, just what I expected.
> It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor. Many
> in Zimbabwe may be MacGregors, without the name of an official sept. In
> any case, I am not limiting limit my efforts to that clan. There is more
> to clan identity than surname, despite what you say.
I'm sure many MacGregors are thrilled, prat.
Jim Bowery
:> flee to the new world. More than most, MacGregors lost their clan
:> identity.
: I'm sure many MacGregors are thrilled, prat.
I'm sure many MacGregors would, like myself, be thrilled to see
duel to the death reinstated as a legal option in defense of honor.
There is a book written by some woodsmen counter culture folks in the
Pacific Northwest that many MacGregors might enjoy. ISBN 0-914752-18-9
"Valoric Fire and a Working Plan for Individual Sovereignty" by the
Valorian Society, page 93 as part of the rule governing single combat:
"It is intended that only one shall return alive from formal combat.
When two return alive one shall forever be shielded by the other. The
relationship must be announced jointly by them before they are permitted
to leave the combat ground. Two are not permitted to return alive if one
has been permanently disabled or disfigured by his opponent."
In your case, however, simple removal of HIV-infected prisoner gang rape
as the threat of illegitimate governments that protect your ilk from just
corporeal punishment would probably do the trick. Isn't it good to know
you might not have to face death to become a reasonable human being again,
Sean?
Sean MacUisdin
(snip latest round of squalling temper tantrum)
Now, Jim, does all this waxing pathetic truly compensate for your
abysmal existence?
Jim Bowery
(snip latest round of bratty behavior)
So what do you think about reinstatement of the duel?
Sean MacUisdin
I think it's a great theoretical exercise for those whom society tends
to disregard as whiny to give themselves some self worth.
Now, this has what to do with the puir wee whites of Zimbabwe, Jim?
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Jim Bowery wrote:
> >
> > Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > So what do you think about reinstatement of the duel?
>
> I think it's a great theoretical exercise for those whom society tends
> to disregard as whiny to give themselves some self worth.
>
> Now, this has what to do with the puir wee whites of Zimbabwe, Jim?
How do you feel about caning whiny racists who troll news groups, Jim?
Jim Bowery
(snipped more bratty behavior)
So the fact that duels were a crucial aspect of dispute processing --
indeed the appeal of last resort -- for more time among Scots than
it has been outlawed among Scots is of little significance to you.
anne.burgess
"Jim Bowery" wrote
> It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor.
Well the name Bowery does not appear at all in Black's 'Surnames of
Scotland' so it seems that it may be questionable whether it is Scottish at
all, never mind has any clan associations.
Remind you of anything, fellas?
Anne
Hiker Boy
That is biggest piece of BS I have seen in a long time. Talk
about weak assumptions of family heritege (do a little real
research and make less presumptions). Follow that with the most
juvenile and lame challenge I have seen online in a while and
it makes this Bowery fellow a definite candidate
for "alt.scottish.clans" fool. Come on Jim, I was rivitted by
your intellect on the Zimbabwe issue, on the floor here, and
can't wait to kill myself laughing over your next posting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
To think that a few drops of chlorine in the shallow end of the
gene pool could have taken care of him... :)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
>
> (snipped more bratty behavior)
>
> So the fact that duels were a crucial aspect of dispute processing --
> indeed the appeal of last resort -- for more time among Scots than
> it has been outlawed among Scots is of little significance to you.
Now, aside from the one on your head, do you have a point with this
meandering diatribe? We've moved so far from the puir wee whites of
Zimbabwe.
Odysseus
Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> Jim Bowery wrote:
> >
> > Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > (snipped more bratty behavior)
> >
> > So the fact that duels were a crucial aspect of dispute processing --
> > indeed the appeal of last resort -- for more time among Scots than
> > it has been outlawed among Scots is of little significance to you.
>
> Actually, Jim, it is.
>
Jim Bowery
: "Jim Bowery" wrote
:> It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor.
: Well the name Bowery does not appear at all in Black's 'Surnames of
: Scotland' so it seems that it may be questionable whether it is Scottish at
: all, never mind has any clan associations.
Since:
* MacGregors were forced to drop their names at about the time
Bowery's appeared in the new world, and since
* MacGregors who fled genocide to the new world would have ended up in
predominantly Scotch Irish communities, and since
* Sullivan County TN is widely regarded as "hillbilly country" with a
very high percentage of Scotch Irish, and since
* Sullivan County TN is one of the earliest places highlanders settled in
the new world, and since
* The surname Bowery is most common in Sullivan County TN and its adjacent
counties, and since
* I have known patrilineage to Sullivan County TN, and since
* The surname Bowery is listed by some sources as a possible sept of the
MacGregors requiring additional verification, and since
* The authenticity of my Scottish heritage has been called into question
as well as my honor by Sean MacUisdin and others incited by or allied
with him,
I now therefore challenge Sean MacUisdin, whoever he is, to submit, along
with myself, to a Y chromosome analysis comparing ourselves to the current
clan chiefs of our respective clans of choice; MacGregor for me and
whatever clan, recognized by the Ancient Clans of Scotland Lord Lyons
Office, with which the surname "MacUisdin" is a sept, for him -- the
results of said comparison to be subjected to degree of relatedness
measurement -- and the least related of the two of us, according to said
measurement, rendering payment for the reasonable expenses of the other's
measurement, not to exceed $25,000, with $5,000 from each of us
immediately placed in escrow with Barclay's Bank to be disbursed or
returned at the sole judgement, without appeal, of Brian Sykes of Oxford
University, who shall retain from this account a fee, adequate in his
opinion, for arbitrating this dispute.
Sean MacUisdin
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
by the Gods, Jim, you've made my night!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steven of Clan Akins, I hereby remove the coveted, "Most Pretentious
Newby Award" from you and present it to Jim "Give it a Goddamned good
shake, MacGregor!" Bowery and his Ilk, who by far exceeds the extremely
high standards of pratship and whiny pretension that is deemed as
crucial for such an award!
(Sorry, Steve, but you've just mellowed too much with age. You've almost
been pleasant these last few months so be a guid sport and make way for
the new generation.)
Jim Bowery
(snipped avoidance of challenge and being tested)
Sean MacUisdin doesn't have the ability to raise the money, even given all
his high-class allies, to take me out with what they claim to believe is a
low risk challenge. Further, he claims that the chiefs of the clans would
be unwilling to undergo analysis of their Y chromosomal DNA in support
resolution of disputes concerning clan identity. This, despite the fact
that Sean MacUisdin himself claims that clan identity is determined by
surname.
He and his cohorts are hypocrites, cowards, low-lifes and/or far from
certain that their patrilineage matches their surnames.
The Glenallan
and they were from Noo Yoik.!
No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
Cheers
The Glenallan
-------------------
"anne.burgess" <anne.b...@newscientist.net> wrote in message
news:38e7cba1$1...@news1.vip.uk.com...
>
> "Jim Bowery" wrote
>
> > It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor.
>
> Well the name Bowery does not appear at all in Black's 'Surnames of
> Scotland' so it seems that it may be questionable whether it is Scottish
at
> all, never mind has any clan associations.
>
John
> "Jim Bowery" wrote
> :> It is not clearly established that "Bowery" is a sept of MacGregor.
> : Well the name Bowery does not appear at all in Black's 'Surnames of
> : Scotland' so it seems that it may be questionable whether it is Scottish
at
> : all, never mind has any clan associations.
>
Have you already opened the account? Sounds like a bluff to me. I used to
play poker with a mate who would always up the anti when he was down. Many
times he win merely on that tact, but never from me!
Now, First I would think that Jim needs to insure that the Clan Chiefs are
willing to submit to the test themselves first, before making such an offer.
Additionally IMHO, not really having a dog in this fight, I would think that
if Jim has applied to the Association for Clan McGregor (Gregor), and they
took his money, then he is an accepted member of the Clan Association.
I have some very good friends who are from Clan McGregor. The next time I
visit them, I certainly will inquire about the acceptance of Bowery as a
recognized Sept.
Last I heard there was no way to check lineage using the yK, without a true,
male, or female unbroken line for both parties. Not only would you have to
be from the same parentage, but you would have to have the same unbroken
combinations. So, I think you little ploy would not work.
Incidentally, I would say that there are many Blacks that would have the
same chances for connection as you Jim, so if you know of a proven process,
maybe we could have a few bodies exhumed and find out who those ancestors
that I descended from really were. I have been at a dead end on a few
lines, and I certainly would be will to submit to a blood test, that might
clear up the loose ends. I would like to start with Cheif Sitting Bull!
Iain...
Sean MacUisdin
>
> Sean MacUisdin <sean.ma...@home.com> wrote:
>
> (snipped avoidance of challenge and being tested)
>
> Sean MacUisdin doesn't have the ability to raise the money, even given all
> his high-class allies, to take me out with what they claim to believe is a
> low risk challenge. Further, he claims that the chiefs of the clans would
> be unwilling to undergo analysis of their Y chromosomal DNA in support
> resolution of disputes concerning clan identity. This, despite the fact
> that Sean MacUisdin himself claims that clan identity is determined by
> surname.
>
> He and his cohorts are hypocrites, cowards, low-lifes and/or far from
> certain that their patrilineage matches their surnames.
Jim, you do all the work for me.
By the way, Jim, any test would announce to the world you were actually
short a Y chromo - so I wouldn't want to embarrass you.
Keep up the good work, princess!
Jim Bowery
:> "Jim Bowery" wrote
:> results of said comparison to be subjected to degree of relatedness
:> measurement
:
: Have you already opened the account?
The mechanics of opening the account will proceed when Sean, whoever he
is, states that he has accepted the challenge. If Barclays is
inconvenient for Sean, whoever he is, we can choose the Bank of Scotland,
for example. I'm making an offer of mechanics in my challenge. The
mechanics are negotiable via counter offers from Sean, whoever he is.
: Sounds like a bluff to me.
If so, all Sean, whoever he is, would have had to do to show me to be
a fraud is call my bluff.
: Now, First I would think that Jim needs to insure that the Clan Chiefs are
: willing to submit to the test themselves first, before making such an offer.
No, that is not my responsibility. Under the definition of clan identity
as being based on surname given by Sean, whoever he is, The Clan Chiefs
themselves accept that responsibility by accepting their positions.
Their refusal would be either a default on their responsibility, calling
into question the legitimacy of their occupation of their position as
Chiefs, or a repudiation of Sean, whoever he is, and his definition of
clan identity.
: Last I heard there was no way to check lineage using the yK, without a true,
: male, or female unbroken line for both parties. Not only would you have to
: be from the same parentage, but you would have to have the same unbroken
: combinations. So, I think you little ploy would not work.
Incorrect on all counts. The sort of analysis I suggest has already been
used to show Y chromosome degree of relatedness (the term I used, which
you simply dropped for some mysterious reason in your commentary) between
Thomas Jefferson and male descendants of one of his slaves. Genetic
lineage is central to clan identity -- particularly for Chiefs, according
to Sean -- so this is far from "a little ploy".
From http://wsrv.clas.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/jeffhemm.html
-------- START OF ARTICLE --------
Defining the Possible Link Between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings:
Lineages and DNA Markers
In order to answer the question of whether or not Thomas Jefferson could
have been the father of any of Sally Hemings' sons it is necessary to
compare the Y-chromosome DNA from the living male-line descendants of
Jefferson and Hemmings. Is has been possible to locate male-line
descendants of two of Sally Hemings' sons, Thomas Woodson (the oldest)
and Eston Hemings the (youngest), but not Madison Hemings whose male-line
descendants did not survive the Civil War. Shown in the figure to the
right is the lineage of the one male-line descendant (H21) of Eston
Hemmings and the five male-line descendants (W55, W56, W69, W70, and W61)
of Thomas Woodson whose DNA was analyzed as part of the study.
Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson did not have a son survive to reproduce so
it was necessary to locate the male-line descendants of Thomas
Jefferson's paternal uncle, Field Jefferson. Five such descendants (J41,
J42, J47, J49, and J50) were located and their DNA was analyzed.
It was also possible to locate three male-line descendants (C27, C29, and
C31) of Samuel and Peter Carr -- the sons of Thomas Jefferson's sister --
whom some consider as the possible fathers of Sally Hemings' children.
In the table below are the results of an examination of the Y-chromosome
DNA of the 14 male-line descendants described above. Where an individual
differs from the other members of his cohort, the allele difference is
shown in bold face. The five descendants of Field Jefferson (and proxies
for Thomas Jefferson) have identical Y-chromosome DNA alleles except for
one microsatellite DNA from J50. This difference is most reasonably
accounted for by assuming that a mutation occured.
The lone descendant of Eston Hemings has the same set of Y-chromosome DNA
alleles as the descendants of Field Jefferson. This supports the claim
that Thomas Jefferson could have been the father of Eston Hemings
although it does not prove it since the father could have been any male
who had the same Y-chromosome as Thomas Jefferson and was in the
immediate vicinity of Sally Hemings nine months before the birth of Eston
Hemings. The Carr descendants have similar DNA among themselves but are
clearly different from either the Jefferson or Hemings descendants.
Four of the descendants of Thomas Woodson are quite similar among
themselves but different from Jefferson and Hemings although they do have
similarities to the descendants of the Carr line. One of the Woodson
descendants is quite different from all of the other individuals which
suggests that one of the genetic ancestors was not in the direct line
from Thomas Woodson.
Family Pedigree
Member Bi Allelic Markers Microsatellite STR Mini Satellite MSY1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jefferson J41 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,15,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32,
(4)16
J42 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,15,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32, (4)16
J47 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,15,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32, (4)16
J49 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,15,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32, (4)16
J50 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,16,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32, (4)16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemings H21 0000001 15,12,4,11,3,9,11,10,15,13,7 (3)5, (1)14, (3)32,
(4)16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carr C27 0000011 14,12,5,12,3,10,11,10,13,13,7 (1)17, (3)36, (4)21
C29 0000011 14,12,5,11,3,10,11,10,13,13,7 (1)17, (3)37, (4)21
C31 0000011 14,12,5,12,3,10,11,10,13,13,7 (1)17, (3)36, (4)21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodson W55 0000011 14,12,5,11,3,10,11,13,13,13,7 (1)16, (3)27, (4)21
W56 0000011 14,12,5,11,3,10,11,13,13,13,7 (1)16, (3)27, (4)21
W69 0000011 14,12,5,11,3,10,11,13,13,13,7 (1)16, (3)27, (4)21
W70 1110001 17,12,6,11,3,11,8,10,11,14,6 (0)1, (3a)3, (1a)11,
(3a)30, (4a)14, (4)2
W61 0000011 14,12,5,11,3,10,11,13,13,13,7 (1)16, (3)28, (4)20
-------- END OF ARTICLE --------
: Incidentally, I would say that there are many Blacks that would have the
: same chances for connection as you Jim
Oh do tell! ;-)
You know, this brings up an angle on Sean, whoever he is, that people
might consider in all of this.
I paid reparations for slavery which were accepted as such by the Million
Man March Committee (the organizaton that got 1 million black men to march
on Washington DC), despite the fact that most of my ancestors were living
in the hills or Quakers from Lancaster County, PA, who led the fight
against slavery during the years of slavery.
Sean, whoever he is, accused me of being "racist" and then backed away
from a Y chromosome test of clan identity which he himself has set as a
standard is rather amusing.
Perhaps Sean, whoever he is, is calling me "racist" and then refusing my
challenge because he realises if he actually follows through with his
definition of clan identity, the next Clan Chief of his may be a big black
dude named Bubba E. Lee from South Carolina!
This would be consistent with his brattish behaviors and the generally
dishonorable conduct of he and his allies.
Séimí mac Liam
The Glenallan <rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ca657$fij$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>
> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>
--
Saint Séimí(54) mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
My eyes are hazel as well as my nuts"
Canonized December '99
Séimí mac Liam
Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom19.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8ca9ps$3t9$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Your challenge would prove nothing. If either you or Sean are not
descended as you think you are think you are(if there was infidelity
by any one of you grandmothers in the straight patrilinear line.) or
if either of the clan chiefs in question had a similar problem with
there descent, then it would show that you are not descended from the
clan founder. Conversely, if the two grandmothers in question both
cheated with the same man it could show that you are both members of
the same clan. There are other variations on this theme, which make
the test pointless. It will prove nothing. Now both of you quit
waving your willies and get on with some kind of fruitful discussion.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Todd
Jim Bowery wrote:
> John <LOGG...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> :> "Jim Bowery" wrote
> :> results of said comparison to be subjected to degree of relatedness
> :> measurement
I am ashamed at this behavior, now we are required to take a genetic test to prove
we are a Clan member. I'll pass, If you wanted to make me a King or Prince or El
Presidente for life I would put up the money, but you offer nothing in return. If
Sean
submits to your testing (without moneys being exchanged) by an independent lab, will
you forfeit $25,000.00 U.S. to him to satisfy your curiosity? He looks like he could
be
a candidate for a Scottish heritage to me, but it's your money Jim. The 25 G's would
be
for his trouble and payable on the day his blood was submitted.....do you agree to
this
($25,000.00 for a pint of blood) ? I must leave the group now, you all have been
kind
but all this talk of pedigrees and such is not what my Grandfather related to me,
the dog
may need a pedigree but the underdog does not.
Todd Campbell
BTW Steven, I think your behaivour as of late is that of a Chief, don't
let yourself faulter, no flame wars.
John
The Glenallan wrote:
> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>
> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>
I had thought of that when this all started. I do however believe that
there might be a couple folks under 55 who has heard of them VBG.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
Bowery \Bow"er*y\, a. Shading, like a bower; full of bowers.
A bowery maze that shades the purple streams. --Trumbull.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
Bowery \Bow"er*y\, n.; pl. {Boweries}. [D. bouwerij.] A farm or plantation
with its buildings. [U.S.Hist.]
The emigrants [in New York] were scattered on boweries or plantations; and
seeing the evils of this mode of living widely apart, they were advised, in
1643 and 1646, by the Dutch authorities, to gather into ``villages, towns,
and hamlets, as the English were in the habit of doing.'' --Bancroft.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
Bowery \Bow"er*y\, a. Characteristic of the street called the {Bowery}, in
New York city; swaggering; flashy.
From WordNet (r) 1.6 (wn)
bowery adj : like a bower; leafy and shady; "a bowery lane" n : a street in
Manhattan noted for cheap hotels frequented by homeless derelicts [syn:
{Bowery}]
Main Entry: bow·ery
Pronunciation: 'bau(-&)r-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -er·ies
Etymology: Dutch bouwerij, from bouwer farmer, from bouwen to till; akin to
Old High German buan to dwell
Date: 1650
1 : a colonial Dutch plantation or farm
2 [Bowery, street in New York City] : a city district known for cheap bars
and derelicts
Sounds like Bowery might be german?
Iain...
Threeboars
> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>
> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>
> The Glenallan
> -------------------
Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, Bobby Jordan, Billy Benedict, David Gorcey, Bennie
Bartlett, Bernard Gorcey.
I grew up on these guys!
(BTW, I'm 38)
--
Regards,
3B
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
- - Will Rogers
Jim Bowery
: Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom19.netcom.com> wrote in message
: news:8ca9ps$3t9$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
: Your challenge would prove nothing. If either you or Sean are not
: descended as you think you are think you are(if there was infidelity
: by any one of you grandmothers in the straight patrilinear line.) or
: if either of the clan chiefs in question had a similar problem with
: there descent, then it would show that you are not descended from the
: clan founder.
By the ancient standards of patrilineal honor to which Sean, whoever he
is, would appeal for legitimacy of clan identity, that proves _plenty_ --
particularly if the degree of relatedness to the clan founder is very low.
It is one thing to be cuckold by your brother -- it is quite another to
be cuckold by the local fishmonger.
anne.burgess
"The Glenallan" wrote
> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>
> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
Sorry Glenallan , you lose that one, I'm not 55 yet <g> and I've heard about
the Bowery Boys - whom I did not mention in that posting to avoid drawing in
any more red herrings ....
Anne
Séimí mac Liam
Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom16.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8cak3p$h8q$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> "Seimi mac Liam" <gwy...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>
> : Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom19.netcom.com> wrote in message
> : news:8ca9ps$3t9$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> : Your challenge would prove nothing. If either you or Sean are not
> : descended as you think you are think you are(if there was
infidelity
> : by any one of you grandmothers in the straight patrilinear line.)
or
> : if either of the clan chiefs in question had a similar problem
with
> : there descent, then it would show that you are not descended from
the
> : clan founder.
>
he
> is, would appeal for legitimacy of clan identity, that proves
_plenty_ --
> particularly if the degree of relatedness to the clan founder is
very low.
>
> It is one thing to be cuckold by your brother -- it is quite another
to
> be cuckold by the local fishmonger.
>
absence of the ability to test each succeeding generation of male
forebearers, which ability you don't have, the test proves nothing.
Jim Bowery
: to
:> be cuckold by the local fishmonger.
:>
: Look Jim, I am not going to give you a lecture on genetics. In the
: absence of the ability to test each succeeding generation of male
: forebearers, which ability you don't have, the test proves nothing.
And well you should not since you disrespect the gathering of data which
will, as it builds, eventually expose the pretenders for what they truly are.
Hiker Boy
Jim contibutes to the Art Bell newsgroup...nuff said.
The Glenallan
I have suffered many insults in my time, but I have
never been called "A dead noble..."
Regards
The Glenallan
-------------------
"Jim Bowery" <jabo...@netcom5.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8c6dlv$oes$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> If true, it means the man in the street is going to hear all about Y
> chromosome haplotype analysis in the not too distant future. And it also
> means a lot of people are going to start "mewling", to appropriately use
> one of your more overused and abused favorites, about how bad and evil and
> "racist" it is to exhume bodies of dead nobles for the purpose of such
> haplotype analysis.
>
> It will be immensely amusing for some; enlightening for all.
>
> The fun has already begun.
>
> http://www.chivalricorders.org/royalty/fantasy/stuart.htm
> http://sites.internetcorp.net/~mcferran/kingindex.htm
>
> and, finally, the surprise jack in the box:
>
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/385467.asp
>
> Quoting one early result:
>
> " More than 98 percent of men with Gaelic names in western Ireland
had
> haplogroup 1 but numbers dropped drastically on the east of the Emerald
> Isle.
> Much further east in Turkey only 1.8 percent of men carry
> haplogroup 1."
>
> Oh, by the way, ever hear of Brian Sykes?
Odysseus
"Séimí mac Liam" <gwy...@aracnet.com> wrote:
>
> Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom16.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:8cak3p$h8q$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> > : news:8ca9ps$3t9$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> > : Your challenge would prove nothing. If either you or Sean are not
> > : descended as you think you are think you are(if there was
> infidelity
> > : by any one of you grandmothers in the straight patrilinear line.)
> or
> > : if either of the clan chiefs in question had a similar problem
> with
> > : there descent, then it would show that you are not descended from
> the
> > : clan founder.
> >
> he
> > is, would appeal for legitimacy of clan identity, that proves
> _plenty_ --
> > particularly if the degree of relatedness to the clan founder is
> very low.
> >
> to
> > be cuckold by the local fishmonger.
> >
> Look Jim, I am not going to give you a lecture on genetics. In the
> absence of the ability to test each succeeding generation of male
> forebearers, which ability you don't have, the test proves nothing.
>
mediæval times it was common for people unrelated to a clan chief but
living under his protection in the clan territory to be considered part
of the clan? Surnames are a more recent development, and I’m sure many
people, when called upon to produce one, "adopted" the local clan name
without necessarily being direct blood relations of the chief.
So a genetic test might serve to identify descendants of a particular
founder, but could not be expected to identify all the clansmen.
One more point (which may not apply to patronymics derived from proper
names) is that a number of surnames appear quite independent of blood
relationships: names like Macpherson, Macnab etc. may have appeared in
the descendants of various unrelated clergymen in different places ...
but persons presently bearing these names are not usually divided into
separate "clans" according to their ancestry.
Sean MacUisdin
>
> John <LOGG...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> :> "Jim Bowery" wrote
> :> results of said comparison to be subjected to degree of relatedness
> :> measurement
> :
> : Have you already opened the account?
>
> The mechanics of opening the account will proceed when Sean, whoever he
> is, states that he has accepted the challenge. If Barclays is
> inconvenient for Sean, whoever he is, we can choose the Bank of Scotland,
> for example. I'm making an offer of mechanics in my challenge. The
> mechanics are negotiable via counter offers from Sean, whoever he is.
>
> : Sounds like a bluff to me.
>
> If so, all Sean, whoever he is, would have had to do to show me to be
> a fraud is call my bluff.
> : Incidentally, I would say that there are many Blacks that would have the
> : same chances for connection as you Jim
>
> Oh do tell! ;-)
>
> You know, this brings up an angle on Sean, whoever he is, that people
> might consider in all of this.
Right on...... I've got my pen ready.
> I paid reparations for slavery which were accepted as such by the Million
> Man March Committee (the organizaton that got 1 million black men to march
> on Washington DC), despite the fact that most of my ancestors were living
> in the hills or Quakers from Lancaster County, PA, who led the fight
> against slavery during the years of slavery.
Wow - you're some kind of hero, Jim....
> Sean, whoever he is, accused me of being "racist" and then backed away
> from a Y chromosome test of clan identity which he himself has set as a
> standard is rather amusing.
Actually, the above statement is quite amusing. I accuse you of racism
because you flood this ng with a number of racist posts about poor
'whites' in Zimbabwe, then you move on to a clan identity test because
to your amazement, we're not all a bunch of card carrying hooded
pinheads like yourself.
Tell you what, Jim, you want the test so prove it to me by setting up
the accounts and wiring the appropriate amount of money. Ultimately I'm
going to laugh my ass off at you for playing the buffoon and I'm sure as
hell not going to waste my time and effort, but please, show the world
how serious you are so that you have the moral high ground as it were.
Otherwise, you're nothing more than a whinny little turd making empty
gestures.
> Perhaps Sean, whoever he is, is calling me "racist" and then refusing my
> challenge because he realises if he actually follows through with his
> definition of clan identity, the next Clan Chief of his may be a big black
> dude named Bubba E. Lee from South Carolina!
Right on! Though I doubt his name would be 'bubba'. That's a bit of a
racist stereotype. Is all this getting through to that little pea brain
of yours, Jim? I'll type slower if I must, just give the word.
> This would be consistent with his brattish behaviors and the generally
> dishonorable conduct of he and his allies.
Brattish? Goodness, what vapid bleating you do, Jim.
Come now, cut me some slack, you've been driving me to giggles all day
and my crew doesn't know what to think of it......
Greyrover
<3...@home.com> writes:
>The Glenallan wrote:
>> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
>> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>>
>> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>>
>> Cheers
>> The Glenallan
>> -------------------
>
>Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, Bobby Jordan, Billy Benedict, David Gorcey, Bennie
>Bartlett, Bernard Gorcey.
>
>I grew up on these guys!
>
>(BTW, I'm 38)
>
Ok, maybe under _35_.
By the way, could you e-mail me? I've tried to e-mail some things and they
come back - the address in your posts doesn't work for me.
Thanks,
Greyrover
Greyrover
<rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
>and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>
>No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>
>Cheers
>The Glenallan
>
Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the early to
mid 60's.
Greyrover
Threeboars
Threeboars writes:
>
> >The Glenallan wrote:
> >> The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> >> and they were from Noo Yoik.!
> >>
> >> No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> The Glenallan
> >
> >Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, Bobby Jordan, Billy Benedict, David Gorcey,
Bennie
> >Bartlett, Bernard Gorcey.
> >
> >I grew up on these guys!
> >
> >(BTW, I'm 38)
> >
>
> Ok, maybe under _35_.
>
> By the way, could you e-mail me? I've tried to e-mail some things and
they
> come back - the address in your posts doesn't work for me.
>
> Thanks,
> Greyrover
It's a spam blocker. E-mail is on the way...
Jim Bowery
: Actually, the above statement is quite amusing. I accuse you of racism
: because you flood this ng with a number of racist posts about poor
: 'whites' in Zimbabwe
And which of us first disassociated ourselves from the word 'white' by
placing it within quotations? Which of us routinely uses the word "race"
in their posts?
I will pull out the archives if you like.
:>Careful now, Sean, archives of this stuff are being kept.
:> definition of clan identity, the next Clan Chief of his may be a big black
:> dude named Bubba E. Lee from South Carolina!
: Right on! Though I doubt his name would be 'bubba'. That's a bit of a
: racist stereotype. Is all this getting through to that little pea brain
: of yours, Jim? I'll type slower if I must, just give the word.
Exactly the sort of stereotype a "racist" would fear -- I was speaking
of a hypothetical mental image you might have of your future clan Chief --
the hypothesis being that you were actually a closet "racist".
Is all this getting through to that little pea brain of yours, Sean?
I'll type slower if I must, just give me the word.
: -------------------
: If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
: bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Clan Uisdin? Is this a clan recognized by Lord Lyons Office? Or are
you, as I suspected in issuing my challenge to a Y chromosome degree of
relatedness test, a pretender?
: ... The heroes of the race of Conn are dead,
: How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them!
Does your above usage of the word "race" have nothing to do with
genetic heritage?
Jim Bowery
: : bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
: Clan Uisdin? Is this a clan recognized by Lord Lyons Office? Or are
: you, as I suspected in issuing my challenge to a Y chromosome degree of
: relatedness test, a pretender?
It turns out Sean MacUisdin is of the "Hustons". "Huston" is Strathclyde
Briton from Renfrewshire. There is some dispute over whether it is a
clan in its own right or a sept of clan Donald.
http://clanhuston.com/messages/478.html
He has repeatedly claimed that I place the "white race" above more
localized identity such as clan and country. "Bowery" is also of
Strathclyde Briton origin (Peebleshire) according to some researchers.
This is a close enough relation that, save the absence of a shared
community (shared views on key morals regarding genetics) and accepted
definition of fair contest in that community as mortal combat, this is
situation in which I would consider challenge to mortal combat under the
rules such as those in "Valoric Fire" to be appropriate.
Sean MacUisdin is clearly damaged in a profound way and, as a relative of
mine, an adult male weilding authority in a community, killing him would
be merciful to him, but more importantly, to the community. To be
killed by him in challenging him to fair contest would be a clear
statement of moral resolve that he must be removed from the,
unfortunately hypothetical, community.
As proof that my loyalties are more localized than the "white race", and
that therefore Sean MacUisdin is a libelous moral cripple without honor, I
offer these communiques and furthermore challenge Sean MacUisdin to join
me in reviewing the portrayal of Italians in movies of that great
film-maker of Scottish descent:
Spike Lee including such movies as "Summer of Sam".
First is a movie review, and second is a discussion of single combat. In
the second communique, I discuss my Strathclyde Briton origins and rules
for limiting single combat to common origins, common genetic morals and
common definitions of "fair contest".
Here is the recent review of a mullatto relative of mine, Mario Van
Peebles' movie "New Jack City" which I sent to a fellow Strathclyde Brit
of the Campbell clan (the term "shallower culture" means of heritage
further from human origins and "deeper culture" of heritage closer to
human origins -- the "original men"):
-------- START OF REVIEW --------
I just finished letting New Jack City play in the background while I did
other things. On a casual look at the film, I can see this is a strong
example of how Scotch Irish Y chromosomes, including a dose of maternal
Protestant nuclear DNA, can participate in some pretty serious
disruptions in the mediterranean strangle hold on moral authority.
I will admit to feeling a bit of pride in having a surname associated
with Peebleshire after just a glance of Peebles' choice of scripts,
casting and directing style. It was quite an accomplishment for someone
of his genotype in the black community. I can see why showings of the
movie were accompanied by violence. It's got to be really liberating for
a beleagured shallower culture black man to see a movie like that --
liberating in the sense warned of by Machiavelli.
I wonder if the relative low visibility of Peebles' films subsequent to
New Jack City is a reaction by competing cultures to the shallower
culture morality expressed in that film?
I know Peebles has his erocidal streak, but with NJC he deserves a lot of
respect. Leslie Snipes deserves equal respect for allowing himself, as a
deeper culture black man, to be portrayed as the devil in the black
community spoken of by Farrakhan.
-------- END OF REVIEW --------
And here is a prior post of mine mentioning my identification with
Strathclyde Briton as my country of origin -- and limiting single
combat to my countrymen who share common genetic morals and common
definitions of "fair contest":
Subject: Re: Who speaks for the gods?
Date: 04/19/1998
Author: Jim Bowery <jabo...@netcom.com>
As my thinking on this topic has evolved and is not in a state of
completion, I'll start with my most recent proposal and go back in time.
The primary areas that need to be completed are the precise ways that the
fair contest morphs into the warrior's insurance as kin altruism is
displaced by reciprocal altruism with increasing scale and genetic
diversity of the relationships.
I suspect that this is where "war", in the old northern european sense
that takes warriors away from the women and children to a separate combat
area, may have a place of honor. Can the DNA fair contest be extended
and generallized to displace violence at even these larger scales of
dispute or is it enough to rely totally on the market as genetic
diversity overwhelms kinship? This is where the idea of "humanity" in
the large and its relationship to the larger family of life in the
ecosystem enters the picture. It is also where the monotheists play
their politics to form a one world "brotherhood of mankind" which is
inevitably abused by the most corrupt among us. We have come out of an
era in which monotheism was paramount and used to destroy peoples and
their environments. I can't pretend to have figured out how to displace
the monotheists from their stronghold since there is a genuine sense in
which we are "all one" -- its just that it is only apparent to the least
moral among us, meaning those who most loudly proclaim we are "all one"
on behalf of "the world" so they can exploit the rest of us, when we
extend our habitats into space.
Subject: Re: Celtic Lands and the English
From: jabo...@netcom.com (Jim Bowery)Date: 1998/03/08
Message-ID: <jabowery...@netcom.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.pagan,alt.religion.asatru,alt.religion.druid,alt.religion.wicca
The head of a clan does have legitimate concerns as to frivolous abuse of
the fair contest and rules have to be established to
protect the community from those abuses by those marginally related to
the Strathcylde ancestors.
I will admit that my blood is not pure Strathclyde and that I should not
be given equal standing with a purer Strathclyde in a fair contest. This
does not mean that the purer Strathclyde should not be subject to answer
my challenge (assuming I am accepted in the clan), merely that the rules
of the contest should handicap me in accordance with my distance from
Strathclyde blood.
In this, I differ with the Valorians and their rules of fair contest
which, in my opinion, err in giving hybrid vigor and foreign newcomers
too much leeway in disrupting communities far from their own folk. Once
their blood is mingled with the clan's over the generations, and
compatibility proven by time, the handicaps should be naturally lifted by
the greater kinship.
The existence of degree-of-relatedness testing allows the genetic
centroid of a community to be determined with an objective metric. Given
the enormous damage caused by JudeoChristiondom, however, it may be
necessary to initialize community constitution via the DNA patterns found
in the bodies of the ancestors -- most probably tooth-extracted DNA.
There are ways of imposing the fair contest such that no violence is
necessary -- and verbal manipulation skills are not further rewarded (as
they are at present with our sophistry-based "fair contest" given us by
the JudeoChristian masters). A simple example would be to have the
electrophoresis pattern of the community sovereigns (heads of houses that
are, by that status, subject to challenge) established via DNA
fingerprint, and then eliminate all points where there is no diversity
betwen the contestants. Roll dice or toss coins to select a point of
diversity and then roll dice or toss coins again to select a sovereign to
use as the source of the deciding gene. The contestant whose gene first
matches the selected sovereign's gene (while the other contestant's does
not) wins the contest, and the other contestant is banished from
thecommunity.
This, along with some of the other rules of the Valorians governing
frequency of challenge, etc., should satisfy the legitimate concerns of
any head of clan as to reckless challenges coming at him, or other
community sovereigns, from those with little stake in the community.
Subject: The Triumph of HonorFrom: jabo...@netcom.com (Jim
Bowery)
Date: 1998/01/26Message-ID: <jaboweryE...@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru[Subscribe to alt.religion.asatru] [More
Headers]
The essence of honor is moral territory. When moral territory is
extended without regard to kinship, politics and hypocrisy are the
inevitable result. Reciprocal altruism is morally outlawed by those who
wish to benefit from the kin altruism of those who are not their kin.
This is the essence of Christianity, Marxism and Political Correctness --
the religions that define politics in the West -- religions without honor
because they abrogate responsibility to Yaweh, the State and The World
respectively while demanding immediate sacrifice from living folk.
While we cannot reverse the history of the triumph of politics over our
folk, honor can triumph over politics if we revive the essential history
of honor in a modern form that demonstrates its superiority over
politics.
This can only be done when we recognize the true nature of honor as it
exists in a cosmopolitan society -- a society that consists of a number
of tribal identities engaging each other in varying ratios of kin
altruism to reciprocal altruism depending on their degrees of kinship.
Only such a society can, thereby, bear up under and honor the real
responsibilities of those relationships.
For this to happen, we must start with a more cosmopolitan definition of
honor that allows moral territory to start in the home, with the father
or other head of household (as with the Swiss), and extend in
ever-widening circles of honor to encompass what we now might refer to as
international alliances such as NATO, minimizing the political intrigue.
Within the family, honor is served by the simple fact that a father's
love will, in the total absence of monetary compensation or taxation,
lead him to die, if necessary, or worse, sacrifice his life in year after
year of sometimes humiliating and mind-numbing labor to support his
family. He will be less than enthusiastic about foisting pathogenic
morals on this children. Even when he is a member of a religious cult
that attempts to sever his direct link to his children and filter it
through the love of some foreign diety so that it can be taxed by
religious authorities he will find himself being somewhat hypocritical.
This is a continual problem for theocratic authorities for their goal is
to maximize the spiritual taxation of love without any real
responsibility being imposed upon them. It is a problem that, when they
do succeed in solving it, leads to their own destruction as they destroy
their "flock". Not so a father who loves his children. His pledge of
support, love and guidance is real and validated daily in material and
immediate ways. Honor within the family is, therefore, the most
essential foundation of all other honor at more abstract levels for it is
the link to our ancestral traditions of honor in which kin altruism
totally dominates reciprocal altruism as the binding force. It is the
source.
Once we step outside the family we enter the domain of reciprocation as
an essential feature of honor, in addition to kinship, for kinship never
disappears entirely even as we extend our circle to included animals,
plants and the "inanimate" world. The Christian, the Marxist, the
Politically Correct falsely proclaim their neighbor to be themselves.
Only a fool for a neighbor would believe this, the primordial act of
hypocrisy and politics -- but we are all fools at one time or another.
There is a part of each of us who does so want to believe we are
unconditionally loved by all. But then we wake up and remember we are
living in the material world, even if only as players.
Once we overcome, at least momentarily, this illusion -- this con-job
upon which Western Civilization has been founded -- we can proceed to
define the nature of honor in a reciprocal relationship with our
neighbors.
First, we can dispense with trivial definitions of reciprocal honor, such
as "honoring your debts" and the like. Such mundane, monetary,
definitions of honor lose sight of the mythic power of honor -- honor
that is founded upon courage, blood and sacrifice. When the father of
one family says he will fight, suffer and possibly even slave to protect
and provide for the children of another family in exchange for like
commitment from their father toward his children, there is a much deeper
relationship than the mere exchange of debt instruments. Properly and
naturally speaking, such relationships should most often exist among
cousins and other members of an extended family -- a kindred, tribe or
clan. There is a reciprocal agreement, albeit unstated and often
unquestioned or tested, in healthy extended families.
But now we see the beginning of the key attribute of reciprocation that
is lacking from theocracies and other fraud-based governments, for if a
cousin or a cousin's child suffers loss due to the failure of a man to do
his part in the kindred, it will most certainly be expected that the man
will indemnify those who suffered the loss.
How different this is from the society that proclaims it protects you
right up to the moment that the bullet or poisonous idea enters your
child's head from a gangster or public educator. At that point, the best
the corrupt society proclaims is that it will seek "justice" which means
exude rhetorical sympathy toward you, the victim who has lived by the
rules and paid the taxes, and then "try" to apprehend and convict the
killer -- this they call "justice". At worst, the killer is praised with
"teacher of the year" awards and given a raise at your expense.
Meanwhile, your moral territory is violated even into your own home as
the corrupt society holds you up for all manner of suspicion because you
are a man with a family -- a family that must be protected from your
supposed inability to meter your discipline to their needs -- a man whose
morals are supposedly inferior to the government that hypocritically
proclaims itself your protector as it steals from you your home
ownership, independent business and place of honor in your own family and
then turns you over to your enemies for mental enslavement, AIDS infected
prisoner gang rape or, if merciful, raw butchery at the hands of honestly
violent gangsters. The triumph of politics.
In the cosmopolitan world the difference between the triumph of politics
and the triumph of honor is in a single word: Indemnification
Those who proclaim their intent to protect us in exchange for our hard
earned money and/or reciprocal agreements to protect others must be held
to account for their proclamations. This means that if someone under
their protection suffers loss due to crime, war or treaty violation,
those who proclaimed their role as protector, and accepted the honor and
responsibility of that role, must do more than issue rhetorical sympathy
and make an attempt to seek retribution -- however sincere. They must
indemnify that loss.
The difference between the gangster and the warrior is the warrior's
support from his community creates in the warrior an accountable
obligation that goes beyond heart-felt words and efforts to the precise
degree that the community stretches the bounds of kinship. A warrior's
insurance differs in exactly that way from a gangster's insurance.
The extreme and possibly even absurdly contrasting images of "warrior"
and "insurance" as used herein points to the absurdity of our
dishonorable cosmopolitan society. We see "insurance" companies as
populated by government-savvy bureaucrats in suits who would have trouble
playing most children's video games due to the violence, while warriors
are ancient, almost atavistic, members of our mythic past to whom death
was a constant companion that gave meaning to life. But here we are,
these ancient creatures of mythic heritage sitting at our computer
monitors reading and writing strange accounts on technologically perverse
sands.
This is the reality of our existence, and it is strange enough that we
had best apply constructs that are strange enough to be equal to the
task.
The warrior's insurance recaptures Wagner's Ring from the theocratic
mists of politics and lets us have heros of honor in the modern, even
cosmopolitan world. It does so by admitting the reality of war, crime
and treaty violation are part of the primordial foundation of
sovereignty's place of honor. We attack our fathers, posses, militias
and militaries at our own peril, for not all peoples will be so foolish.
It is the politician and theocrat who abuses these men for nefarious
purposes, sometimes posing as one of them, who is the real internal
enemy, regardless of his hypnotic words.
When two men come into conflict, should it be honorable, it should not
involve others as it is a simple question of moral territory -- who
should wield moral authority over what domain. The same applies,
however, at higher levels of human organization. In the pre-theocratic
times of northern Europe, such wars were fought according to rules that
persisted in degraded form the 19th century wherein civilians, meaning
women and children, were not to be harmed. Such tests of strength are a
natural stablizing force that reduce the potential of major catastrophic
wars, in much the same way that small quakes relieve strain along fault
lines and so prevent damaging quakes. The challenge to a duel or the
declaration of war are in the same ancient and honorable spirit -- a
declaration that the moral territory occupied is in dispute and must be
resolved and that the disputants must therefore prepare to separate
themselves to an arena or battle field far from women and children. It
is a declaration that the parties involved are rational about their
limitations as reasoning machines -- that they are "reasonable" in the
wholistic sense that they are reasonable about the limits to reason.
In the strange cosmopolitan world we occupy, warrior's insurance
companies arise from the reinsurance of fathers as the primary insurers
of their family's safety. Some societies, such as the ancient Romans,
prefer to leave military service as an option for citizenship, or to pay
mercinaries outright. This wasn't part of the northern tradition so I
expect among the heirs of that tradition such optional service would be
locally less common. However, just as our folk serve disproportionately
as a world protective force today, albeit under the manipulative strings
of our enemies, I expect we would serve in equal disproportion in a
reinsurance network consisting of a cosmopolitan collection of tribes.
In such a situation, we would receive substantial monetary compensation
in exchange for guarantees of protection against losses due to crime, war
and treaty violation -- and those peoples who are less disposed to honor
as the foundation of their existence would pay insurance premiums with
the just expectation of indemnification in the event of any of the above
named losses.
Default would be handled in the way it is usually handled in reinsurance
networks, with the exception that there would be no "government" taxation
to fall back on since what we are doing is replacing government and
taxation with a non-criminal founding principle of reciprocal altruism.
As with any reinsurance network, there are conditions on indemnification
beyond the mere payment of premiums. People who incite criminal activity
or war would of course, receive the guidance and counsel of their
protectors. As with smokers who refuse to quit, other behaviors might
result in termination of the protective relationship or an increase in
premiums. Expulsion from physical territory and disaffiliation would
always be an option, and justifiably so. People who attempt to violate
treaties, thus inviting treaty violations against their kin, would
likewise receive appropriate guidance.
In this we see the cosmopolitan abstraction of the ancient moral
territory given to those with honor -- moral authority that is always
coveted as the strategic prize of the theocrat and politician for with it
they can control the very perceptions of those they parasitize. The
warrior is more accountable if for no other reason than that people tend
to be more lucid when facing the stark realities of crime, war and treaty
violation -- it is easier to see the responsibilities of the warrior than
the responsibilities of the theocrat and politician.
With such accountability the mundane discipline of accountancy is rescued
and brought back as a runic prize to the mythic domain of the warrior's
saga, and with it the Ring that was formed from the primordial spiritual
wealth of the folk at the dawn of history. To recapture it from the
mists of the Neibelung would bring the return of the hero.
The triumph of honor.
Subject: Re: KINdredsFrom: jabo...@netcom.com (Jim Bowery)
Date: 1996/07/08Message-ID: <jaboweryD...@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.asatru[Subscribe to alt.religion.asatru] [More
Headers]Please note:
This is a challenge to make mortal combat POSSIBLE within the laws of the
various sovereignties to which we are currently subject. Before Norseman
or I could kill the another, there would have to be a community of
Sovereigns that accepted these rules governing fair contest and Norseman
and I would both have to be members of that community, which is highly
unlikely. As I stated BEFORE Norseman jumped in to challenge me to
combat, the reason for this is to increase honor, not violence. If I
were to accept his challenge to discuss holmganga face to face (which I
presume to mean combat that we would keep secret from the legal
authorities) I would not only be engaging in violence that bound no one
to honor, but would be encouraging what would amount to a religious war
between Universalist and Ancestralist Asatruar -- a war that is itching
to happen right now.
I am not going to posture as to who would win this war, because there is
more than enough posturing going on around here already. What I will say
is that violence and honor are not the same thing.
Right now we suffer from so much deception, duplicitous manipulation and
covert violence under the color of authority by the government that some
increase in the VISIBILITY of violence may be necessary in order to
decrease the level of dishonorable characters within our ranks.
As I stated in a prior message on mortal combat, any violent contest
short of mortal combat is prone to disable and/or disfigure the loser. I
don't consider it responsible to advocate such combat. Combat to the
death is superior. Further, I don't consider a contest that involves
external judgement or referee intervention to be viable as these are
corruptable and the primary purpose of the fair contest is to root out
corrupt authorities.
That is why I said even a toss of the coin would be acceptable compared
to the current state of affairs, in which legalistic sophistry and
theocratic manipulation are the deciding factors in law and religion.
Here is my original post inviting discussion on Holmganga and Things
posted PRIOR to Norseman's hormone crazed challenge:
I have invited those who dispute the definition of honor in Norse
tradition to discuss with me the problems and potentials of reinstituting
Holmganga in the modern world.
Holmganga did not exist in a vacuum -- it was surrounded by a social
structure including the Thing, that served to derail the vast majority of
deaths by single combat. This would be through mutual agreement mediated
(NOT arbitrated) by third parties that were the prototypes of the modern
juries. These advisors would frequently find mutually agreeable,
positive-sum, solutions to otherwise intractable differences -- but not
always. It was not up to these third parties to decide whether their
recommendations were to be "acceptable" to the parties whom they advised,
except in later corruptions of the Thing in which lawyers,
theologians and politicians began to weild their trecherous guile.
In other words, it was always the inalienable right of any man to demand
satisfaction through combat to the death by challenging any other man --
and the social contract among Winterlanders was such that a man, so
challenged, would be put to death if he shrank from the challenge.
This brings us to the distinction between Sovereigns and Shielded, which
are terms used by the Valorians(*) to describe the social roles assigned
to individuals as they pertain to Holmganga and the Thing. Sovereigns
are individuals who are not Shielded. Only Sovereigns may be
challenged.
Only Sovereigns may vote on binding matters, such as those addressed at
the Thing. One may be Shielded only by mutual consent with a
Sovereign (except for those who have not reached the age of procreation,
who are automatically Shielded by their mothers or the Shields of their
mothers). Such consent may be removed at any time by either party.
Please note: A later corruption of the "Shield" became the "champion"
who would serve as the shield of the "sovereign" king (read COWARD who
manipulates gangs of thugs to go beat up on people he doesn't like).
Today, we have declined to the level of using lawyers as "Shields" who
then dictate underpaid policemen to do their dirty work for them.
Any revival of Holmganga must be linked to authority at the Thing via the
distinction between Sovereign and Shielded. Beyond this, Sovereignty
must be contingent on two things:
1) Mandatory death to the individual who refuses a challenge.
2) Prior agreement to accept membership in the community of Sovereigns
which has agreed to the specific rules governing the Holmganga traditions
of a "community".
A "community" should be defined in terms of its Sovereigns, their Things
and the form of Holmganga they chose.
Normally, some of the worst conflicts would be avoided by the simple
expedient of separating incompatible types into separate communities.
This is the essential virtue of separatism -- it prevents violence by
avoiding unnecessary friction between incompatible types. For example,
some of the people in this newsgroup who I would challenge to a Holmganga
due to their dishonorable conduct would probably not end up in the same
community with me. In this case, the "laboratory of the communities"
would decide which communities were viable and which were doomed to
failure -- not via rhetorical device, but via actual living experiments
in community values. Naturally no one is going to invest their life in a
community that they feel is nonviable -- therefore we should see very
sincere experiments in alternative community formation. Universalists
would simply separate from Ancestralists and within each classification
of opinion, there would be many subclasses -- each experimenting with
their own beliefs, theologies and values. THIS is the essence of
Winterland individualism, freedom of association and freedom of religion
-- values that are horrendous to the theocracies of Rome and the Levant.
This is the true original of "diversity" as a cultural value -- not
forced integration of all with all.
(*) For the best draft of rules governing single combat and social
contracts in preChristian Northern Europe, I recommend approximately 40
pages of reading from:
"Valoric Fire And a Working Plan for Individual Sovereignty" by the
Valorian SocietyISBN 0-914752-18-9
pages 77 though 113, which is the section titled "Individual
Sovereignty".
This book is available for $5.00 from:Sovereign Press326 Harris Rd.
Rochester, WA 98579
Ann Getty
wgrey...@cs.com (Greyrover) wrote:
>In article <8ca657$fij$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "The Glenallan"
><rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>>
>>The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
>>and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>>
>>No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>>
>>Cheers
>>The Glenallan
>>
>
>Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the early
>to
>mid 60's.
They were shown in reruns after that, so "The Bowery Boys" are not
completely unfamiliar to me. In fact, IIRC, Bowery Boys reruns were
shown right after "Little Rascals" reruns in my neck of the woods...
Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
Hiker Boy
when China attacks the feminized west with China's enormous
surplus of young men and discplined technologists."
<snip lameness>
Wow a chauvanist as well as a racsist and a complete nutball to
boot.
ROTFLMAO!
Sean MacUisdin
> : because you flood this ng with a number of racist posts about poor
> : 'whites' in Zimbabwe
>
> And which of us first disassociated ourselves from the word 'white' by
> placing it within quotations? Which of us routinely uses the word "race"
> in their posts?
>
> I will pull out the archives if you like.
>
> :>Careful now, Sean, archives of this stuff are being kept.
> :> dude named Bubba E. Lee from South Carolina!
>
> : racist stereotype. Is all this getting through to that little pea brain
> : of yours, Jim? I'll type slower if I must, just give the word.
>
> Exactly the sort of stereotype a "racist" would fear -- I was speaking
> of a hypothetical mental image you might have of your future clan Chief --
> the hypothesis being that you were actually a closet "racist".
Ahh, but a closet racists would be upset by this, Jim. I on the other
don't care what the colour of skin is.
> Is all this getting through to that little pea brain of yours, Sean?
> I'll type slower if I must, just give me the word.
LOL - it didn't take you too long to run low on wit I see, Jim.
> : -------------------
> : If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
> : bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
>
> Clan Uisdin? Is this a clan recognized by Lord Lyons Office? Or are
> you, as I suspected in issuing my challenge to a Y chromosome degree of
> relatedness test, a pretender?
If you are indeed unaware of Clan Uisdin, Jim, then you have proven
beyond a doubt who the pretender is.
> : ... The heroes of the race of Conn are dead,
> : How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them!
>
> Does your above usage of the word "race" have nothing to do with
> genetic heritage?
Nope. It's a quote from a very nice and very old poem.
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
... The heroes of the race of Conn are dead,
How bitter to our hearts is the grief for them!
Sean MacUisdin
> : Clan Uisdin? Is this a clan recognized by Lord Lyons Office? Or are
> : you, as I suspected in issuing my challenge to a Y chromosome degree of
> : relatedness test, a pretender?
>
> It turns out Sean MacUisdin is of the "Hustons". "Huston" is Strathclyde
> Briton from Renfrewshire. There is some dispute over whether it is a
> clan in its own right or a sept of clan Donald.
>
> http://clanhuston.com/messages/478.html
> Sean MacUisdin is clearly damaged in a profound way and, as a relative of
> mine, an adult male weilding authority in a community, killing him would
> be merciful to him, but more importantly, to the community. To be
> killed by him in challenging him to fair contest would be a clear
> statement of moral resolve that he must be removed from the,
> unfortunately hypothetical, community.
LOL - oh, Jim, if only you were here in person to say such things
instead of cowering behind the supposed safety of
usenet....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
(snip)
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
CandL Garrett
Ann Getty wrote in article <
oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
--
Lena G
>
Jim Bowery
: Jim Bowery wrote:
:> Sean MacUisdin is clearly damaged in a profound way and, as a relative of
:> mine, an adult male weilding authority in a community, killing him would
:> be merciful to him, but more importantly, to the community. To be
:> killed by him in challenging him to fair contest would be a clear
:> statement of moral resolve that he must be removed from the,
:> unfortunately hypothetical, community.
: LOL - oh, Jim, if only you were here in person to say such things
: instead of cowering behind the supposed safety of
: usenet....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
You will not think it funny when governments devolve and/or when China
attacks the feminized west with China's enormous surplus of young men and
discplined technologists.
Those are the fruits of your corruption.
Shawn Kilpatrick
Jim Bowery wrote in message <8cegvj$6jn$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>...>:> Sean MacUisdin is clearly damaged in a profound way and, as a relative
of
>:> mine, an adult male weilding authority in a community, killing him would
>:> be merciful to him, but more importantly, to the community. To be
>:> killed by him in challenging him to fair contest would be a clear
>:> statement of moral resolve that he must be removed from the,
>:> unfortunately hypothetical, community.
>
>: instead of cowering behind the supposed safety of
>:
usenet....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahaha.....
>
>You will not think it funny when governments devolve and/or when China
>attacks the feminized west with China's enormous surplus of young men and
>discplined technologists.
>
>Those are the fruits of your corruption.
Hee hee hee.. this guy's a riot! Funnier than Akins even, much as I hate to
admit it. I wonder when the ranting about black helicopters and the Federal
Emergency Management Agency is going to start? :)
SK
Ann Getty
<C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Ann Getty wrote in article <
>>
>> Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
>
>oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
>--
>Lena G
Not 'til August... Still a few months away, but it's creeping ever
closer... ;-)
Ann
Todd
lands were
confiscated in 1712 by James Montrose 1st Duke of Montrose. He lived
under the protection
of John Campbell 2nd Duke of Argyll under the name of Robert Campbell
(his mother was a
Campbell). Sir Walter Scott wrote about this man in his novel Rob Roy.
He was imprisoned
in the 1720's by the English (hollywood didn't show us this) and I
wondered if anyone had
information on the rest of his life and why and how the English took
him.
Todd
Kitten
writes:
>Rob Roy MacGregor (1671-1734) was a member of the outlawed Clan and his
>lands were
>confiscated in 1712 by James Montrose 1st Duke of Montrose. He lived
>under the protection
>of John Campbell 2nd Duke of Argyll under the name of Robert Campbell
>(his mother was a
>Campbell). Sir Walter Scott wrote about this man in his novel Rob Roy.
>He was imprisoned
>in the 1720's by the English (hollywood didn't show us this) and I
>wondered if anyone had
>information on the rest of his life and why and how the English took
>him.
Here's some sites about Rob:
http://www.scotsmart.com/info/histfigures/robroy.html
http://www.tartans.com/articles/famscots/robroy.html
http://www.scotclans.com/clans/1671.htm
and if you want to see where he resides today:
http://www.findagrave.com/pictures/2856.html
sla\inte
Kitten
Guma fada be/o thu is ce/o as ur taigh
Lang may yer lum reek :-)
Todd
depicts
the Duke of Argyll as a man of integrity. The first reference you submitted
states otherwise.
Rev Timothy N Nurse
<Thank you Kit but every story gives a different answer.
Most of it, including Scott, highly romaticised. McGregor's initial wealth
is thought to have come as a result of murdering a neighbour and stealing
his cattle. Nothing was ever proven, but McGregor seemed to prosper whilst
cattle rustling rose in the area. He persuaded the Duke of Montrose that
he was a successful cattle trader and invited him to invest. The money
disappeared, along with some of Montrose's cattle. McGregor claimed that
they had been robbed whilst droving the cattle south however some time later
one of McGregor's men was spotted at Lanark market selling Montrose's cattle
and a warrant was issued for McGregors arrest. He then went on the run and
found shelter in Breadalbane's lands in the Trossachs. Breadalbane was no
friend of Montrose and encouraged McGregor to conduct raids on Montrose's
property. None of this endeared McGregor to the authorities.
In the 1715 Jacobite uprising, McGregor played things close to chest, turning
up late for the final battle at Sherrifmuir, outside Stirling. It was said
at the time that he turned up late was a deliberate ploy to avoid having to
make a choice as to who he would fight for. Up until that point it was unclear
which side McGregor would join.
He eventually surrendered to General Wade, was pardoned and spent the rest
of his life quietly, dying in Balquiddher. His two sons, however, carried
on
the McGregor tradition and ended their days on the gallows after abducting
a young girl and forcing her into marrying one of them.
The hollywood version
<depicts
<the Duke of Argyll as a man of integrity. The first reference you submitted
<states otherwise.
Yes, well, the Hollywood version is noted for it's fantasy. Argyll was as
much a crook as McGregor and Montrose.
--
-------------------------------------------
Visit my exciting new *improved* web pages at:
http://members.xoom.com/The_Minister
-------------------------------------------
Todd
Todd
Sean MacUisdin
> :> Sean MacUisdin is clearly damaged in a profound way and, as a relative of
> :> mine, an adult male weilding authority in a community, killing him would
> :> be merciful to him, but more importantly, to the community. To be
> :> killed by him in challenging him to fair contest would be a clear
> :> statement of moral resolve that he must be removed from the,
> :> unfortunately hypothetical, community.
>
> : instead of cowering behind the supposed safety of
> : usenet....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
>
> You will not think it funny when governments devolve and/or when China
> attacks the feminized west with China's enormous surplus of young men and
> discplined technologists.
>
> Those are the fruits of your corruption.
LOL - Well......... not much I can really add.
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
Jim Bowery
:> attacks the feminized west with China's enormous surplus of young men and
:> discplined technologists.
:>
:> Those are the fruits of your corruption.
: LOL - Well......... not much I can really add.
From
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/04/09/stifgnusa02003.html
April 9, 2000
US Navy on alert as sex war hits subs
by Matthew Campbell, Washington
...
Even more alarming for military planners are the lower training standards
evolved to accommodate women: the obstacle course at one base has been
renamed a "confidence course" so as not to intimidate women; and while
men must be able to throw a grenade 35 metres, women can pass muster by
tossing it over a concrete wall.
It does not bode well, say critics, for America's combat readiness.
"When we are involved again in a real war," writes Gutmann, "the
fiercer, angrier, most blood-lusting force will win." That is not a
description of America's new age army.
Sean MacUisdin
> :> You will not think it funny when governments devolve and/or when China
> :> attacks the feminized west with China's enormous surplus of young men and
> :> discplined technologists.
> :>
> :> Those are the fruits of your corruption.
>
> : LOL - Well......... not much I can really add.
>
> From
>
> http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/04/09/stifgnusa02003.html
>
> April 9, 2000
> US Navy on alert as sex war hits subs
> by Matthew Campbell, Washington
> ...
> Even more alarming for military planners are the lower training standards
> evolved to accommodate women: the obstacle course at one base has been
> renamed a "confidence course" so as not to intimidate women; and while
> men must be able to throw a grenade 35 metres, women can pass muster by
> tossing it over a concrete wall.
>
> It does not bode well, say critics, for America's combat readiness.
>
> "When we are involved again in a real war," writes Gutmann, "the
> fiercer, angrier, most blood-lusting force will win." That is not a
> description of America's new age army.
> The promotion of politics exterminates apolitical genes in the population.
> The promotion of frontiers gives apolitical genes a route to survival.
> Change the tools and you change the rules.
Another personal problem for you, Jim.
--
Air muir 's air tir,
Sean of Clan Uisdin
-------------------
If anyone is looking for Sean of Clan Uisdin, he can be found in the
bathtub mulling over his thoughts wi' a dram o' Glen Ord.
Remove 'mac' to reply.
Hiker Boy
Tiss
Greyrover wrote:
> In article <8ca657$fij$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "The Glenallan"
> <rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
> >
> >The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> >and they were from Noo Yoik.!
> >
> >No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
> >
> >Cheers
> >The Glenallan
> >
>
> Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the early to
> mid 60's.
>
> Greyrover
I wonder if I'm the only one here that saw them first run at the movies. I loved
them. They were usually shown as an extra with the Saturday double feature .
Sometimes we got the Three Stooges. instead.
Tiss
Tiss
Ann Getty wrote:
> In article <01bf9f07$8355f7e0$d77936cb@default> , "CandL Garrett"
> <C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >Ann Getty wrote in article <
>
> >>
> >> Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
> >
> >oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
> >--
> >Lena G
>
> Not 'til August... Still a few months away, but it's creeping ever
> closer... ;-)
>
> Ann
Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date. However,
I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
Bothwell Grange
Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in message news:38F449A6...@i1.net...
I wish I was :-((
--
Greetings & Salutations
from Eileen & Roger
in the heart of Tasmania
>
anne.burgess
"Tiss" wrote
> Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date. However,
> I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
I share your date (29th) but not your month. And I'm not going to be 40
either.
Anne
CandL Garrett
Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in article <38F42255...@i1.net>...
(sshhhh... I've never heard of them.... !) LOL
--
Lena G>
CandL Garrett
Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in article <38F449A6...@i1.net>...
> Ann Getty wrote:
> > In article <01bf9f07$8355f7e0$d77936cb@default> , "CandL Garrett"
> > <C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Ann Getty wrote in article <
> > >> Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
> > >
> > >oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
> > >--
> > >Lena G
> >
> > Not 'til August... Still a few months away, but it's creeping ever
> > closer... ;-)
> >
> > Ann
>
> Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date. However,
> I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
I'm a Virgo, too... 9th September. Tiss by your photo I'd reckon you to be
45- 50 yo. .... now if you're any older than that you'd have to be a cradle
snatcher...!!! ;-) LOL
--
Lena G
>
CandL Garrett
anne.burgess <anne.b...@newscientist.net> wrote in article
<38f45...@news1.vip.uk.com>...
>
> "Tiss" wrote
>
> > Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date.
However,
> > I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
>
> I share your date (29th) but not your month. And I'm not going to be 40
> either.
>
> Anne
>
What month? I liked being 40yo... it was a good year for me... but I
couldn't stand the number 41 for some reason... it sounded strange. So I
said I was 42 for 2 years !!! LOL I thought it would be to vain to stay
40 when I wasn't. It is the only time I have had a problem with my age and
certainly the only time I have tampered with it! 8^)
--
Lena G
CandL Garrett
Bothwell Grange wrote in article
> Tiss > wrote in message
> > Ann Getty wrote:
> > > In article , "CandL Garrett" wrote:
> > > >Ann Getty wrote in article <
> > > >>
> > > >> Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
> > > >
> > > >oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
> > > >--
> > > >Lena G
> > >
> > > Not 'til August... Still a few months away, but it's creeping ever
> > > closer... ;-)
> > >
> > > Ann
> >
> > Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date.
However,
> > I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
>
> I wish I was :-((
> --
> Greetings & Salutations
> from Eileen & Roger
> in the heart of Tasmania
<gbg> Hi Eileen !!
--
Lena G
anne.burgess
"CandL Garrett" wrote
> What month?
Ssssshhhhh - January.
> I liked being 40yo... it was a good year for me... but I
> couldn't stand the number 41 for some reason... it sounded strange. So I
> said I was 42 for 2 years !!! LOL I thought it would be to vain to stay
> 40 when I wasn't.
I've enjoyed every age so far better than all the previous ones.
Anne
Bothwell Grange
CandL Garrett <C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:01bfa5a4$cf6b5280$LocalHost@default...
>
>
> Bothwell Grange wrote in article
> > --
> > Greetings & Salutations
> > from Eileen & Roger
> > in the heart of Tasmania
>
> <gbg> Hi Eileen !!
> --
> Lena G
OOPS!! Shows what effect age has on my mentality <GBG>
from E Jay Cee
CandL Garrett
anne.burgess <anne.b...@newscientist.net> wrote in article
You and me both.. ! Life gets richer at it accumulates! <g>
--
Lena G
CandL Garrett
Bothwell Grange <both...@heritagebandb.com> wrote in article
> CandL Garrett <C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> > Bothwell Grange wrote in article
> > > > I wish I was :-((
> > > --
> > > Greetings & Salutations
> > > from Eileen & Roger
> > > in the heart of Tasmania
> >
> > <gbg> Hi Eileen !!
> > --
> > Lena G
>
> OOPS!! Shows what effect age has on my mentality <GBG>
Age can hide a multitude of sins..! <g>
--
Lena G
Tiss
CandL Garrett wrote:
They were hoodlums. They were the equilvalent of "gangs" today, but they were
made to look funny. Maybe you had to know something about New York City.
They were'nt full lenth movies, but lasted for maybe 20 minutes. Was there
much importing-exporting of movies then? Probably not. It is another thing
that grew out of the *Depression* of the 30's
Tiss.
Tiss
CandL Garrett wrote:
> Tiss <ejth...@i1.net> wrote in article <38F449A6...@i1.net>...
> > Ann Getty wrote:
> > > In article <01bf9f07$8355f7e0$d77936cb@default> , "CandL Garrett"
> > > <C.P.G...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Ann Getty wrote in article <
> > > >> Ann (under 40, but not for much longer)
> > > >
> > > >oooh...! when 's the b'day <gbg>
> > > >--
> > > >Lena G
> > >
> > > Not 'til August... Still a few months away, but it's creeping ever
> > > closer... ;-)
> > >
> > > Ann
> >
> > Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date. However,
> > I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
>
> I'm a Virgo, too... 9th September. Tiss by your photo I'd reckon you to be
> 45- 50 yo. .... now if you're any older than that you'd have to be a cradle
> snatcher...!!! ;-) LOL
> --
> Lena G
>
>
> >
Lena, I love you! Try adding about 15 years to that.
Tiss
Tiss
CandL Garrett wrote:
> anne.burgess <anne.b...@newscientist.net> wrote in article
> <38f45...@news1.vip.uk.com>...
> >
> > "Tiss" wrote
> >
> > > Oh, when in August? Mine is Aug. 29. Not many share my date.
> However,
> > > I'm not going to be 40! ha, ha
> >
> > I share your date (29th) but not your month. And I'm not going to be 40
> > either.
> >
> > Anne
> >
> What month? I liked being 40yo... it was a good year for me... but I
> couldn't stand the number 41 for some reason... it sounded strange. So I
> said I was 42 for 2 years !!! LOL I thought it would be to vain to stay
> 40 when I wasn't. It is the only time I have had a problem with my age and
> certainly the only time I have tampered with it! 8^)
> --
> Lena G
Ed has been 39 for many many years. LOL I never think of age, in fact I
sometimes have to do some arithmetic to figure how old I am. 6o was my worst
year, but I think it was because that was when everything started breaking
down, such as my back.
Tiss
SilntThnkr
>> > > <rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
>> > > >and they were from Noo Yoik.!
>> > > >
>> > > >No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
>> > > >
>> > > >Cheers
>> > > >The Glenallan
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the
>> early to
>> > > mid 60's.
>> > >
>> > > Greyrover
>>
I remember the Bowery boys well into the 60's and even early 70's shown on T.V.
on slow, boring Saturday afternoons. Of course I was not around to wattch
them at the movies in the 40's but oh well.
-David of the Clan Gunn
Kenneth McMaster
>
> Greyrover wrote:
>
> > In article <8ca657$fij$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "The Glenallan"
> > <rmb...@clydesdale.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > >
> > >The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> > >and they were from Noo Yoik.!
> > >
> > >No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
> > >
> > >Cheers
> > >The Glenallan
> > >
> >
> > Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the early to
> > mid 60's.
> >
> > Greyrover
>
> them. They were usually shown as an extra with the Saturday double feature .
> Sometimes we got the Three Stooges. instead.
>
> Tiss
You're not the only one that saw their
first runs. The good old days
when you walked in to the theatre in the
middle of a movie and just stayed for
the second showing until you got to the
part you had already seen. Was it done
that way in Scotland?
Kenneth
Helen Ramsay
> Tiss wrote:
> >
> > Greyrover wrote:
> >
> > > "The Glenallan" wrote
> > > >The only 'Bowery' I ever heard of were "The Bowery Boys"
> > > >and they were from Noo Yoik.!
> > > >
> > > >No one under 55 will have a clue what I'm talking about
> > >
> > > Maybe under _45_ because their movies were shown on television in the
early to
> > > mid 60's.
> > >
> > I wonder if I'm the only one here that saw them first run at the
movies. I loved
> > them. They were usually shown as an extra with the Saturday double
feature .
> > Sometimes we got the Three Stooges. instead.
> >
> You're not the only one that saw their
> first runs. The good old days
> when you walked in to the theatre in the
> middle of a movie and just stayed for
> the second showing until you got to the
> part you had already seen. Was it done
> that way in Scotland?
Yep! This is where I came in ;-)
Cheers,
Helen
You don't stop laughing because you grow old;
you grow old because you stop laughing.
CandL Garrett
Kenneth McMaster <dim...@igalaxy.net> wrote in article
<38FE7B12...@igalaxy.net>...
> Tiss wrote:
<snip>
> > I wonder if I'm the only one here that saw them first run at the
movies. I loved
> > them. They were usually shown as an extra with the Saturday double
feature .
> > Sometimes we got the Three Stooges. instead.
> >
> > Tiss
>
> You're not the only one that saw their
> first runs. The good old days
> when you walked in to the theatre in the
> middle of a movie and just stayed for
> the second showing until you got to the
> part you had already seen. Was it done
> that way in Scotland?
> Kenneth
We had Newsreel theatrettes that did that. Ran without a break, it
consisted of Movietone (etc) News, short documentaries, and cartoons.. the
cycle lasted about an hour/ hour and a half. The Movies.. which we called
the 'pictures' or the 'flicks' had a News, a serial, a cartoon and the
supporting B Grade movie. Then we had a 20 minute break to buy a drink,
Minties, Jaffas or some other lolly, or an choc-dipped ice-cream. This was
followed by the feature film and ended with the Anthem (God Save the Queen)
which you always stood for... and didn't dare walk out on!
Oh..!! the good old days. LOL
--
Lena G