Seth Shaw injured?
Ted Compton
it. If so, best wishes, good luck.
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
Chris Harmston
Seth was climbing the first pitch of the Angel of Fear (WI6+ conditions
this year). It had only touched down for a week. The first pitch is a
pillar about 120 feet long with a small attachment 15 feet off the deck
and about a 1 foot diameter attachment at the bottom. It was about 20
feet thick at the top attachment. The route had been climbed the weekend
prior by Doug Heinrich and two partners. The week in between was very
warm. It got cold again the day prior to when Seth was on it. Seth said
it looked weak and so had his belayer well off to the side anchored to a
tree. Will Gadd had established a new mixed route (Lucifer-M8) earlier
this winter before the pillar had touched down. Seth had climbed the
pillar and was clipping these bolts for pro. He was about 50 feet out and
15 feet out from a bolt. He was about to clip another bolt. He set his
axe one more time and the pillar broke off. He indicated that it was like
being Wiley Coyote in that the pillar fell below him while he stayed
suspended whipping his arms and legs in the air. The pillar smashed into
the ground and stopped momentarily. Seth landed on top of it. He even
thinks the pillar bounced back up at him. When he landed on it he broke
two ribs and wrenched his body pretty hard. The pillar then exploded and
he fell the rest of the way onto the bolt. He fell about 40 feet total.
He was able to crawl/walk out. Doug Heinrich and myself retrieved their
packs the next day. Seth will be ok in a few more weeks. chris
Chris Harmston (chr...@bdel.com).
Quality Assurance Manager. Materials Engineer BS, ME.
Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
2084 East 3900 South, SLC, UT 84124 phone: 801-278-5552
DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise indicated, this correspondence is personal
opinion and NOT an official statement of Black Diamond Equipment Ltd.
rata...@zdnetmail.com
supertape and tacked spectra runners girth hitched together, and found them
to be 70% as strong as a single tacked runner, I was curious as to how strong
a tied Supertape runner is. So I took the same spool of 11/16" nylon
Supertape and tied up some runners using a well-dressed water knot.
3-19-99 TD 14787
Results: ( all values in lbf )
3798, 4067, 4423, 4585, 3988. All broke where the web enters the knot.
AVG = 4172
sigma(n-1) = 323
Rating = 2911 ( Rating is AVG less 3.9*sigma(n-1) )
Compare to the Tacked runners in the same material ( TD 14742):
AVG = 5713
sigma(n-1) = 156
Rating = 5105
Results: 1. Tied Nylon Runners tested on average 73% of the strength of a
sewn runner in the same material. 2. Variance in a tied runner is pretty
high. The rating of the tied runner is only 57% of the rating of the tacked
runner.
Conclusions: 1.You lose a lot when using a tied runner. About the same loss
as when girth hitching them together to make them longer. 2.The tied runner
variance is pretty high. The knot 'system' is not a consistent system.
My Personal Opinions:
1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've been
using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
2.I would be careful about tying runners out of low-strength materials like
9/16" supertape. Yeah, we thought they were strong. But they are not that
strong.
Tom Jones
BDEL Harness guy
t...@bdel.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Karl Lew
>1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've been
>using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
>2.I would be careful about tying runners out of low-strength materials like
>9/16" supertape. Yeah, we thought they were strong. But they are not that
>strong.
>
>Tom Jones
>BDEL Harness guy
>t...@bdel.com
I think the nylon tape I sent Chris was 5/8 or 9/16 supertape. When did BD
switch over to the heftier 11/16"?
--Karl
maohai huang
: 1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've been
: using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
I speculate in real falls the impact is so short that the melting that
breaks the tape doesn't do as much damage as the prolonged stretching
machine ( or what it is called ) used in lab tests.
rata...@zdnetmail.com
"Karl Lew" <karl...@intuit.com> wrote:
> >My Personal Opinions:
> >1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've been
> >using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
> >9/16" supertape. Yeah, we thought they were strong. But they are not that
> >strong.
> >
> >Tom Jones
> >BDEL Harness guy
> >t...@bdel.com
>
> I think the nylon tape I sent Chris was 5/8 or 9/16 supertape. When did BD
> switch over to the heftier 11/16"?
> --Karl
>
We dropped the 9/16" supertape a few years ago from the sewn sling program,
but we still sell it on the spool for the few die-hards that want it. 11/16"
has been the standard for a while. This is partly due to CEN standards that
call for a sling strength of 22kN - hard enough to achieve with 11/16".
It's also hard to tell the 9/16" and 11/16" apart, since they both vary in
width by more than 1/16". I was wondering why you sent in that wimpy 9/16"
supertape matched with the burliest Spectra stuff available.
t...@bdel.com
(These are my personal opinions, on some occasions shared by my employer,
sometimes not.)
rata...@zdnetmail.com
mhu...@bu.edu (maohai huang) wrote:
> rata...@zdnetmail.com wrote:
> : 1.Tied runners are probably all right most of the time. After all, we've
been
> : using them for years and we don't see many break in the field, do we?
>
> breaks the tape doesn't do as much damage as the prolonged stretching
> machine ( or what it is called ) used in lab tests.
>
This topic has been discussed at length. Speculate all you want, but the
test machine does a good job of modeling what happens out on the crag. You
pull on it, it breaks. As those more versed in dynamics than I have stated,
the loading rate to create a 'dynamic' load is in general far in excess of
the loading rate seen in the field, and thus the slow loading seen on a
"Tensile Test Machine" give good results.
Are you in engineering school there at BU? Looking for a Bachelor's thesis?
Jratus Utahnus
(t...@bdel.com)
Karl Lew
>supertape matched with the burliest Spectra stuff available.
I bought that 9/16" supertape ages ago (10 years?) and used it
to keep my then very young son from wandering off the trails
on Yosemite's cliffs. I rediscovered it and decided to have it
die an honorable death. One of the unexpected benefits of sending
BD the weaker supertape was that it really demonstrated how
asymmetric the girth hitch is. The supertape held up surprisingly
well (93% baseline) when girthed with spectra. What I'd expected
was a dramatic failure caused by spectra/nylon interaction. When
the nylon held up, I had to blink 'n think.
BTW, I've been dying to know why your handle is Jratus Utahnus.
Please explain for a slow guy like me?
8*) Karl
Michael Riches
<karl...@intuit.com> wrote:
Hey Karl.......Make him tell you the story behind Ratagonia also. It
seems Utah is full of us rats.......Along with Karl, I want to say thanks to
all the B.D. people too. You all do a great job. (Tell Liz I still want
those Ski's.)
Thanks
The Rockrat
maohai huang
: As those more versed in dynamics than I have stated,
: the loading rate to create a 'dynamic' load is in general far in excess
of
: the loading rate seen in the field, and thus the slow loading seen on a
: "Tensile Test Machine" give good results.
"far in excess". yeah, sure. How far is it, without resorting to
speculation? With enough samples empirical correlation can be made between
static test results and drop test results.
:
: Are you in engineering school there at BU? Looking for a Bachelor's thesis?
:
Too late. But if you have the funding for a post-doctorial position I am
interested. Then again I am thinking about moving to the Alps.