L68K: Re: linux on Hades 060?
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 16:09:40 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> I am really in doubt to sell my Medusa and to leave L68k. My time is
> very short and my work here at the university needs some more and my
> PC at home is so much faster ...
Sounds disappointed... :-(
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Thorsten Floeck <flo...@wctc6.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:38:58 +0200 (MET DST)
Hi Roman,
> I've seen some docs (tnx to Thorsten Floeck and Freddi himself), and I
> can tell you: chances are low to port Linux to the Hades, and if
> somebody tries, he'll have a lot of work and will need a lot of time :-((
>
> The most severe problem is SCSI: Freddi left out the DMA chip, thus
> the OS has to do PIO... Furthermore, the interrupt for this is autovec
> #2, i.e. what HSYNC is on all other machines. Even if someone should get
> this running, it will be damn' slow :-(
>
> But there are also some other points that require much reworking in
> Linux, e.g. memory layout, PCI and ISA slots, completely different
> floppy, and so on...
I just want to write nearly the same. IMHO it's better you buy a Medusa for the
development of L68k. May be my one? I am really in doubt to sell my Medusa and
to leave L68k. My time is very short and my work here at the university needs
some more and my PC at home is so much faster ...
Floecki
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 15:05:48 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> This question was asked several times AFACR, however I wonder if
> someone has an acces to some detailed specifications and
> documentations so he can say something more about chances of
> developing linux for Hades and also about expected amount of work
> needed to make linux running on that interesting platform.
I've seen some docs (tnx to Thorsten Floeck and Freddi himself), and I
can tell you: chances are low to port Linux to the Hades, and if
somebody tries, he'll have a lot of work and will need a lot of time :-((
The most severe problem is SCSI: Freddi left out the DMA chip, thus
the OS has to do PIO... Furthermore, the interrupt for this is autovec
#2, i.e. what HSYNC is on all other machines. Even if someone should get
this running, it will be damn' slow :-(
But there are also some other points that require much reworking in
Linux, e.g. memory layout, PCI and ISA slots, completely different
floppy, and so on...
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: be...@phil.uni-sb.de (Benjamin Lorenz)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 16:26:29 +0200
Roman Hodek <linux...@phil.uni-sb.de> wrote:
>> I am really in doubt to sell my Medusa and to leave L68k. My time is
>> very short and my work here at the university needs some more and my
>> PC at home is so much faster ...
>
>Sounds disappointed... :-(
Just have to say something here:
I finally have got a new (old) TT (thanks, Ton!!) and will continue
playing with Linux/68k (perhaps even working.. :))
I was a hard time, the last 6 weeks without Atari...
Benni
--
/'^'\
( o o ) Benjamin Lorenz, Saarbruecken
-oOOO--(_)--OOOo---- be...@phil.uni-sb.de, 0681/372253
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Thorsten Floeck <flo...@wctc6.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:45:57 +0200 (MET DST)
> Sounds disappointed... :-(
Yes, i am little bit disappoint. L68k is a great project,
no doubt. Even the Medusa is a fine computer, no doubt.
I have, like you, a big time problem. By the development
of L68k for Ataris in the last time, it took me a lot of time
to hold the line and i am realy confused about several points
what happened with L68k. Jes does a great job (even the other
guys) but the problems which still remain in L68k are terrible for me.
At the meeting in Oldenburg was the decision to develop only 2.0.x
further on, this based on the hope, that some of the old problems
would disappear (wild pointer e.g.). The same happened some time ago
by the switch to 1.2. In fact, the old problems didn't disappear and
new appears. What's about the memory bug in 2.0.x on Ataris? What's
about the serial problems? What's about the development of X11 (yes
i know Geert is working on it)? In general i see the problem, that most
of the workers develop and develop, but they take no time or say better
less time, to do a 'code freeze' and do some debugging on the current state
and e.g. in the case of X11 to make a new 'distribution' and an easy to read
documentation? Documentation is another big problem for L68k ...
It's really fine that there is some progress for the 68060 processor,
but wouldn't it better, to make the older processors cleanly runable?
I know, none of the problems isn't so easy.
Sorry my mood isn't so good today ...
Floecki
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Geert Uytterhoeven <Geert.Uyt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:31:54 +0200 (MET DST)
Topi Kanerva wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Roman Hodek wrote:
> > > I am really in doubt to sell my Medusa and to leave L68k. My time is
> > > very short and my work here at the university needs some more and my
> > > PC at home is so much faster ...
> >
> > Sounds disappointed... :-(
>
> but is the truth... however, there's still something you can do with a
> 68040/40MHz... Phase5 is selling cheapo 040/40 boards (700DM or so) so I
> might want to get one and later upgrade it to a 68060 :) but well I've
> been thinking of getting an alpha. Never a PC, no way, but alphas are
> nice, fast and also quite cheap. So I'll be developing Linux for alphas
> then, however, it's a shame that m68k platforms and alphas have so little
> common :(
Yeah, life is hard. PCs are bad (little endian) and if you're used to an Amiga,
you'll miss that beast and it's Plug-'n-Play. Even PCI sucks a bit (my opinion:
it took me many hours to get a PCI Ethernet board to work on the brand new PC
at home. Why can I do `insmod ariadne' on m68k, and should I do `insmod de4x5
io=0x012 de4x5_autosense=4' on i386???).
But PCs (Pentium [Pro]) are about the only (cheap, i.e. reasonable priced)
machines you can buy. The only viable alternative might be a PowerPC: a 604@225
MHz should scream under Linux.
When I bought my A4000 (nearly 4 years ago), I said: in 36 months I'll buy my
next computer. It still hasn't happened... Nothing serious has originated in
the computer world...
Greetings,
Geert
P.S. Still active in Linux/m68k development. That's the reason I keep my
computer... What should I do else???
--
Geert Uytterhoeven Geert.Uyt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be
Wavelets, Linux/m68k on Amiga http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~geert/
Department of Computer Science -- Katholieke Universiteit Leuven -- Belgium
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:52:50 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Topi Kanerva <to...@susanna.oulu.fi>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> When I bought my A4000 (nearly 4 years ago), I said: in 36 months I'll buy my
> next computer. It still hasn't happened... Nothing serious has originated in
> the computer world...
hehe same here with my A3000 :) but well, talking about the performance...
look at this:
time dd if=/dev/sda4 of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=10
10+0 records in
10+0 records out
0.05user 20.82system 0:31.23elapsed 66%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (67major+272minor)pagefaults 0swaps
time dd if=/dev/sda5 of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=10
10+0 records in
10+0 records out
0.06user 8.87system 0:11.55elapsed 77%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (67major+272minor)pagefaults 0swaps
any explanations? both partitions reside on same disk. sda5 is albeit
smaller, but i tried also sda1 which is as small as sda5 but didn't get
the same speed. susanna is reading from sda4 at a "blazing" 500k/s, but
oh well oh well! what's so special with the sda5 partition so that it's
screaming at 1.2 MEGABYTES/second!? :)
i'd like to see that kind of performance for all my partitions :I
also another curiosity; look at the cpu time used! and yes this is dma, we
are merely using no cpu time for the transfer; only some for processing
the scsi interrupts, etc.
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Thorsten Floeck <flo...@wctc6.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:38:25 +0200 (MET DST)
> Phase5 is selling cheapo 040/40 boards (700DM or so) so I
> might want to get one and later upgrade it to a 68060 :) but well I've
> been thinking of getting an alpha.
I have my Medusa no over 3 years, with an 040/32. I was fascinated of the speed
for a long time ...
> Never a PC, no way, but alphas are
> nice, fast and also quite cheap. So I'll be developing Linux for alphas
> then, however, it's a shame that m68k platforms and alphas have so little
> common :(
I have a realy nice PC now at home, the people which was at Oldenburg know catan.
I have this PC for free at home while i am working for a friend of mine who sells
PCs. IMHO nearly everybody was surprised about the speed of catan. If you watch the
thread about the compiling speeds here, i could only laugh. Yesterday catan needs
for a 'make depend; make' less than 10 minutes for 2.0.11-11. It's possible to
get this kernel later the day here on wctc6.
Floecki
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 10:50:33 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> If you watch the thread about the compiling speeds here, i could
> only laugh. Yesterday catan needs for a 'make depend; make' less
> than 10 minutes for 2.0.11-11.
Laughing, too :-) Nearly 10 min.s ?? :-) Get more RAM...
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: be...@phil.uni-sb.de (Benjamin Lorenz)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: 30 Aug 1996 11:19:10 +0200
>> If you watch the thread about the compiling speeds here, i could
>> only laugh. Yesterday catan needs for a 'make depend; make' less
>> than 10 minutes for 2.0.11-11.
*smile*
Solaris2.5, UltraSparc 167MHz: 5 min for make, 25 seconds for make
depend... ;-)
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:49:00 +0200 (MET DST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kolbj=F8rn_Barmen?= <ko...@nvg.unit.no>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
>=20
> P.S. Still active in Linux/m68k development. That's the reason I keep m=
y
> computer... What should I do else???
MultiUserFileSystem2.0 ?? =3D)
Kolbj=F8rn Barmen /\=AF\ "I met the Amiga and fell in love..." // T e=
a m
ko...@nvg.unit.no \/_/ <http://www.nvg.unit.no/~kolla/> \XX/ A M I G =
A
Nettverksgruppa NVG Norvegian University of Science and Technology NTN=
U
Sad (l)user of the month, September'96, Amiga Format =3D)
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: be...@phil.uni-sb.de (Benjamin Lorenz)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: 30 Aug 1996 12:37:51 +0200
Thorsten Floeck wrote:
>May be this is true for the Amiga, but if i look around, it isn't true
>for the Ataris. 1.2.13 has no problems with the TT-Ram, 2.0.x does!
Well, but beside that I am very happy with my 2.0.11 kernel...
I don't think that the Atari-Linux/68k world is so black as you
see it. We too have a lot of kernel hackers around, perhaps not
as much as there are amiga hackers, but who cares about the
exact number?...
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 96 11:26:06 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> Catan runs during the compiling another big job and does streaming
> to a DAT-streamer. So 48 MB would be enough.
Emilio now has > 32 MB buffers during compiling :-) Nice if all
headers are finally in the cache... :-) In a second run, the only disk
accesses are caused by the 'sync's in the kernel Makefiles. Memory is
(was) so cheap, I just had to buy more... ;-)
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Thorsten Floeck <flo...@wctc6.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:25:31 +0200 (MET DST)
> I do understand your frustration, and I know what you mean. I do try
> to track down the bugs I encounter, and several other guys do the same
> (sometimes I get the feeling that some even hunt for the bugs). I
May be, i am such a hunter for bugs. Yesterday i tried 2.0.11-pl11. I see
with this kernel nothing better, than with 2.0.8. Even a single task like
top crashes after some time. Okay i might do a strange thing with running
this top with a refresh of 0, but my PC doesn't hurt on it.
> consider 2.0.x to be very stable, a lot more than 1.2.13 in fact
May be this is true for the Amiga, but if i look around, it isn't true
for the Ataris. 1.2.13 has no problems with the TT-Ram, 2.0.x does!
> as far as I understand you have some special Medusa related problems
> which are quite hard to fix when one does not have access to such a
> beast.
Yes i know, that i am nearly alone to track down the Medusa related bugs
in the kernel but IMHO this problem would be less strange, if the normal
Ataris would work proper.
> When it comes to documentation and distribution I do agree that we
> seriously need more work to be done in those areas. Chris has done a
> nice job on the documentation and Joerg maintains the FAQ, but still
> we could use more voulenteers. The Debian project looks very promising
> as well, so I wont say we are moving in the wrong direction.
The last FAQ by Joerg is some time ago, yes? The work of Chris is mostly related
to Amigas, not Ataris. You see the problem? Almost most of the things happened
in this time are related to Amigas. But this is the same problem we talked
at Oldenburg about, the Atari people doesn't show such an enthusiastic behaviour
as the Amiga people or you.
> One doesn't need to be the greatest programmer in the world in order
> to contribute (heck, then I wouldn't be allowed to do so ;). Everyone
> out there who doesn't feel like they are up to tracking bugs in the
> kernel, maybe you can help with something else: was the installation
> guide sufficient for you, what problems did you encounter when
> installing X etc. .... we can use a lot of these experiences in order
> to improve our documentation and ease the process for all the future
> users.
I am realy no great programmer, but i have a lot of experience with Linux at all.
May be i get some time this weekend to check some things in the kernel, but be
sure, you will read one more message from me about a problem with the Afterburner
and the hint, how it could be solved!
> PS: Yes, the last part was meant as a "get on with it, we know you
> can do it, there is no excuse not to participate" kinda thing.
I hink, i have no chance to leave L68k ...
Floecki
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Thorsten Floeck <flo...@wctc6.chemie.uni-wuppertal.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:02:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Hi Roman,
> Laughing, too :-) Nearly 10 min.s ?? :-) Get more RAM...
Catan runs during the compiling another big job and does
streaming to a DAT-streamer. So 48 MB would be enough.
Floecki
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
From: Jes Degn Soerensen <j...@kom.auc.dk>
Date: 30 Aug 1996 14:50:41 +0200
>>>>> "Benjamin" == Benjamin Lorenz <be...@phil.uni-sb.de> writes:
Benjamin> Thorsten Floeck wrote:
>> May be this is true for the Amiga, but if i look around, it isn't
>> true for the Ataris. 1.2.13 has no problems with the TT-Ram, 2.0.x
>> does!
Benjamin> Well, but beside that I am very happy with my 2.0.11
Benjamin> kernel...
Benjamin> I don't think that the Atari-Linux/68k world is so black as
Benjamin> you see it. We too have a lot of kernel hackers around,
Benjamin> perhaps not as much as there are amiga hackers, but who
Benjamin> cares about the exact number?...
Its kinda strange though, because it used to be the other way round.
Jes
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
From: Jes Degn Soerensen <j...@kom.auc.dk>
Date: 30 Aug 1996 14:48:32 +0200
>>>>> "Szymon" == Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl> writes:
Szymon> It was me, who started this topic and let me explain why I'm
Szymon> so impressed about Hades:
Szymon> 5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM
Szymon> while here in Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE
Szymon> + (keyb, case, mouse, etc; excluding ED drive) costs
Szymon> 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95 ?! - *never*)
Where do you plan to buy that 133MHz 68060 CPU? Motorola only promised
that they would produce 66MHz parts.
Szymon> 6) mc68060 is a bit faster than basic PPC. Also linux
Szymon> development for PPC is now 'under controll' of Motorola and
Szymon> Apple, however PPC linux have very interesting microkernel
Szymon> thechnology applied (but afaik they don't have shared libs
Szymon> yet!).
Wrong, Apple and OSF handle mkLinux, aka. Linux running on top of the
Mach micro-kernel. Some other people are working on a native PPC port,
which has nothing to do with Apple and OSF.
Jes
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:22:26 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Hi!
On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> Topi Kanerva wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Roman Hodek wrote:
> > > > I am really in doubt to sell my Medusa and to leave L68k. My time is
> > > > very short and my work here at the university needs some more and my
> > > > PC at home is so much faster ...
> > >
> > > Sounds disappointed... :-(
> >
> > but is the truth... however, there's still something you can do with a
> > 68040/40MHz... Phase5 is selling cheapo 040/40 boards (700DM or so) so I
> > might want to get one and later upgrade it to a 68060 :) but well I've
> > been thinking of getting an alpha. Never a PC, no way, but alphas are
> > nice, fast and also quite cheap. So I'll be developing Linux for alphas
> > then, however, it's a shame that m68k platforms and alphas have so little
> > common :(
>
> Yeah, life is hard. PCs are bad (little endian) and if you're used to an Amiga,
> you'll miss that beast and it's Plug-'n-Play. Even PCI sucks a bit (my opinion:
> [...]
> But PCs (Pentium [Pro]) are about the only (cheap, i.e. reasonable priced)
> machines you can buy. The only viable alternative might be a PowerPC: a 604@225
> MHz should scream under Linux.
>
> When I bought my A4000 (nearly 4 years ago), I said: in 36 months I'll buy my
> next computer. It still hasn't happened... Nothing serious has originated in
> the computer world...
It was me, who started this topic and let me explain why I'm so impressed
about Hades:
1) It is much faster then Medusa with same CPU. In Medusa you have still
mostly 16bit BUS while in Hades there is almost everywhere 32bit BUS
(AFAIK there is only 16bit bridge to FDI and some similar ST hardware)
and comparing official GEM bench tests 133MHz Hades it is about 100
times faster then plain Falcon!
2) PCI is good or not but it *is* the standard. And IMO it has future.
Also if there is a driver for PCI, there will be no problem to
install one of plenty PCI graphics cards available under linux.
3) It is cheaper then Medusa. And even when comparing to Pentium
- 133MHz Hades shoud have performance of about 150MHz Pentium (much
more in fp. operations, a bit less in others).
4) over 200MB/s BUS, 10MB/s EIDE, 7MB/s SCSI2 (right - SCSI performance is
not so impressive)
5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM while here in
Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE + (keyb, case, mouse,
etc; excluding ED drive) costs 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95
?! - *never*)
6) mc68060 is a bit faster than basic PPC. Also linux development for PPC
is now 'under controll' of Motorola and Apple, however PPC linux have
very interesting microkernel thechnology applied (but afaik they don't
have shared libs yet!).
So personally if I've found the cash, I would buy the Hades and try to
start developing linux on it.
best regards,
Szymon.
BTW: on Falcon 030@50MHz (16bit BUS@25MHz, 14MB RAM) kernel compilation
time (make dep, make, make modules) takes about 4.25 hours.
;)
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: mu...@cs.utk.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 04:01:45 -0400
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Just out of curiousity, what kind of engineer would design
a system without DMA? Granted, Linux has very little support for zero
copy operation like Mach, Solaris, HPUX and AIX but still...
??
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:37:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: Petr Stehlik <ste...@cas3.zlin.vutbr.cz>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Szymon Stasik wrote:
Hi Szymon,
> It was me, who started this topic and let me explain why I'm so impressed
> about Hades:
I have direct access to Hades060 (one of my friends bought it month ago).
> 1) It is much faster then Medusa with same CPU. In Medusa you have still
> mostly 16bit BUS while in Hades there is almost everywhere 32bit BUS
there's a 64-bit data bus AFAIK.
> 3) It is cheaper then Medusa. And even when comparing to Pentium
it is much cheaper than Medusa.
> 5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM while here in
> Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE + (keyb, case, mouse,
> etc; excluding ED drive) costs 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95
> ?! - *never*)
the prices seem ok to me. That's why my friend bought it - because it's
worth the price.
> So personally if I've found the cash, I would buy the Hades and try to
> start developing linux on it.
It would be a very long and hard work, if there's no DMA, different
floppy, memory and other things. But it should be possible, if Freddi
patched the TOS 3.06 to work on Hades060! Even HDDRIVER works there, so
other people already succeeded on Hades..
But I personally would suggest you to buy an AfterBurner - your Falcon
stays with you (games, demos, sound, DSP) but you'll get a REAL SPEED for
less than 1000 DM :-)
Petr
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| ste...@cas3.zlin.vutbr.cz -- 2:421/3...@fidonet.org -- 90:1200/2...@nest.ftn |
| Falcon030+AfterBurner040/80MHz/20MB RAM/1080MB IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM 4x/Tower |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 11:34:01 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Topi Kanerva <to...@susanna.oulu.fi>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Szymon Stasik wrote:
> 2) PCI is good or not but it *is* the standard. And IMO it has future.
> Also if there is a driver for PCI, there will be no problem to
> install one of plenty PCI graphics cards available under linux.
well yes there are some things need to be taken care about. but basically,
yes it is possible to take the source for some pci-based ethernet board,
integrate the source to m68k tree, and then make the board run...
> 4) over 200MB/s BUS, 10MB/s EIDE, 7MB/s SCSI2 (right - SCSI performance is
> not so impressive)
over 200MB/s pci bus? this is the PCI64 standard, it differentiates from
PCI, and is only used on high-end Alphas.
normal PCI (in PC's and other home computers) offers 132MB/s peak
bandwidth.
> 5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM while here in
> Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE + (keyb, case, mouse,
> etc; excluding ED drive) costs 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95
> ?! - *never*)
AFAIK 133MHZ 060's don't exist.
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 11:26:15 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Topi Kanerva <to...@susanna.oulu.fi>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Roman Hodek wrote:
> > If you watch the thread about the compiling speeds here, i could
> > only laugh. Yesterday catan needs for a 'make depend; make' less
> > than 10 minutes for 2.0.11-11.
>
> Laughing, too :-) Nearly 10 min.s ?? :-) Get more RAM...
laughing here, too :-) I compile my kernels on a dual processor
Ultra-2 workstation with 316 megs of RAM... It takes 2 minutes and
11 seconds to compile the damn kernel :)
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Martin...@hn.maus.de (Martin Rogge)
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 96 10:58:00 +0200
TFF>Yes, i am little bit disappoint. L68k is a great project,
I can feel with you, I was at that point nearly a year ago.
TFF>The same happened some time ago
TFF>by the switch to 1.2. In fact, the old problems didn't disappear and
TFF>new appears.
What really pisses me off is the interrupt structure. L68K is the only
operating system I know that sometimes even misses a keyboard stroke.
After completely redoing the 68K interrupt structure (I don't think I posted
the diffs) it became obvious that the problem is in the intel code only.
Since I started a job at the sime time I retreated from L68K development. I am
atill keeping an eye on the mailng list but...
TFF>The last FAQ by Joerg is some time ago, yes? The work of Chris is
TFF>mostly related to Amigas, not Ataris. You see the problem? Almost
TFF>most of the things happened in this time are related to Amigas. But
TFF>this is the same problem we talked at Oldenburg about, the Atari
TFF>people doesn't show such an enthusiastic behaviour as the Amiga
TFF>people or you.
That is typical for the whole Atari scene, I think. People are more willing to
move to new machines than the Amiga freaks.
cu Martin
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Geert Uytterhoeven <Geert.Uyt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:17:31 +0200 (MET DST)
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kolbj=F8rn_Barmen?= wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 1996, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> >
> > P.S. Still active in Linux/m68k development. That's the reason I keep my
> > computer... What should I do else???
>
> MultiUserFileSystem2.0 ?? =)
Who needs MultiUser under AmigaOS if he can have the real thing under
Linux/m68k? :-)
Greetings,
Geert
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Geert Uytterhoeven <Geert.Uyt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:19:46 +0200 (MET DST)
Benjamin Lorenz wrote:
> >> If you watch the thread about the compiling speeds here, i could
> >> only laugh. Yesterday catan needs for a 'make depend; make' less
> >> than 10 minutes for 2.0.11-11.
>
> *smile*
>
> Solaris2.5, UltraSparc 167MHz: 5 min for make, 25 seconds for make
> depend... ;-)
Are you trying to tell me I have to try a cross-compiler (make -j) on our new
bi-CPU (2x167MHz) UltraSparc to keep the benchmarking guys happy?
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 96 11:44:45 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> laughing here, too :-) I compile my kernels on a dual processor
> Ultra-2 workstation with 316 megs of RAM...
^^^
Ok, I'm giving up :-)
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 96 13:05:31 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> I'm not, all summer I built MIPS/Linux kernels on a 250MHZ 36
> processor SGI Challenge with 5 gigs of ram, 42 second parallel Linux
> kernel builds baby!!! ;-)
But you don't have to pay for that hardware, have you? :-)
Roman
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:46:13 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Petr Stehlik wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Szymon Stasik wrote:
>
> > 1) It is much faster then Medusa with same CPU. In Medusa you have still
> > mostly 16bit BUS while in Hades there is almost everywhere 32bit BUS
>
> there's a 64-bit data bus AFAIK.
That's why it's so fast while comparing to Falcon or TT...
> the prices seem ok to me. That's why my friend bought it - because it's
> worth the price.
>
> > So personally if I've found the cash, I would buy the Hades and try to
> > start developing linux on it.
>
> It would be a very long and hard work, if there's no DMA, different
> floppy, memory and other things. But it should be possible, if Freddi
> patched the TOS 3.06 to work on Hades060! Even HDDRIVER works there, so
> other people already succeeded on Hades..
If it works on Medusa, it will work on Hades after hard but not so long
(I hope) work...
regards,
Szymon.
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:31:45 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On 30 Aug 1996, Jes Degn Soerensen wrote:
> >>>>> "Szymon" == Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl> writes:
>
> Szymon> 5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM
> Szymon> while here in Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE
> Szymon> + (keyb, case, mouse, etc; excluding ED drive) costs
> Szymon> 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95 ?! - *never*)
>
> Where do you plan to buy that 133MHz 68060 CPU? Motorola only promised
> that they would produce 66MHz parts.
Sorry, I am talking about the internal speed which seems to be right
choise if you want to compare 060 and Pentium (even then 060 is faster).
> Szymon> 6) mc68060 is a bit faster than basic PPC. Also linux
> Szymon> development for PPC is now 'under controll' of Motorola and
> Szymon> Apple, however PPC linux have very interesting microkernel
> Szymon> thechnology applied (but afaik they don't have shared libs
> Szymon> yet!).
> Wrong, Apple and OSF handle mkLinux, aka. Linux running on top of the
> Mach micro-kernel. Some other people are working on a native PPC port,
> which has nothing to do with Apple and OSF.
Yes, you are right --- my fault.
Szymon.
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 14:52:24 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Szymon Stasik <ss15...@students.mimuw.edu.pl>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
On Sat, 31 Aug 1996, Topi Kanerva wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Szymon Stasik wrote:
>
> > 4) over 200MB/s BUS, 10MB/s EIDE, 7MB/s SCSI2 (right - SCSI performance is
> > not so impressive)
>
> over 200MB/s pci bus? this is the PCI64 standard, it differentiates from
> PCI, and is only used on high-end Alphas.
>
> normal PCI (in PC's and other home computers) offers 132MB/s peak
> bandwidth.
over 200MB/s is the speed of mainboard bus, not PCI.
> > 5) the price itself: AFAIK 133MHz Hades 060 is about 3700DM while here in
> > Poland 150MHz Pentium + mainboard + SCSI2 + EIDE + (keyb, case, mouse,
> > etc; excluding ED drive) costs 3000DM. (and what about second OS? win95
> > ?! - *never*)
>
> AFAIK 133MHZ 060's don't exist.
again: I was talking about internal speed.
regards,
Szymon.
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
From: Geert Uytterhoeven <Geert.Uyt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 15:10:28 +0200 (MET DST)
Roman Hodek wrote:
> > I'm not, all summer I built MIPS/Linux kernels on a 250MHZ 36
> > processor SGI Challenge with 5 gigs of ram, 42 second parallel Linux
> > kernel builds baby!!! ;-)
>
> But you don't have to pay for that hardware, have you? :-)
Probably he's got payed for playing with that machine...
Roman Hodek
(Forwarded from the linux-m68k mailing list)
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 96 15:49:47 +0200
From: Roman Hodek <rnh...@faui21j.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Subject: Re: L68K: linux on Hades 060?
> If it works on Medusa, it will work on Hades after hard but not so
> long (I hope) work...
Medusa and Hades are quite different machines... though both are by
Freddi Aschwanden. The Medusa tries to be rather close to standard
Atari machines, whereas the Hades drops lots of the compatibility
stuff...
Roman