Theory on Dr Who origin
David Crone
1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
secrets of the Time Lords.
2) He objected to some restructuring activity that the Agency was about
to undertake using the Hand of Omega and Nemesis (both powerful and
destructive devices)
3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
4) He then proceeded to hide both devices somewhere in time and space
(why choosing Earth for these hiding places I don't know -
probably because this planet was a backwater)
5) Nemesis was hidden in 17th Century England but then put in comet orbit
due to Lady Peintforth's interference.
6) The Hand of Omega was hidden in 1963 England in the Undertakers and
was to be buried.
7) This could not be successfully carried out due to the arrival of
Stephen and Barbara following Susan (Unearthly Child)
8) .... Credits role on 26 years of time travelling adventures ....
"Evidence" for this theory:
a) It is well known that Dr Who had stolen the TARDIS and was on the
run from the Time Lords.
b) McCoy version Doctor went back to retrieve the HoO.
etc...
"Problems":
a) Who is Susan?
b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
David.
Do you fear for your child?
>"Problems":
>
>a) Who is Susan?
We'll never know.
>b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
Well, what makes you say that it's "such an antique"? The fact that
he didn't know how to steer it or the fact that the chameleon circuit
had broken? First, you must remember that at least up until An
Unearthly Child, the chameleon circuit worked perfectly - because when
they arrived in prehistoric earth, The Doctor mutters to himself "It's
still a police box! Why didn't it change? Oh dear, oh dear..." A
few stories later, Susan tells Ian and Barbara about the time it was
disguised as an iron maiden...
As for the inability to steer it, we have every reason to believe that
it was the Doctor's own incompetence that made it unpredictable. He
said "The problem is that this isn't working properly. Or should I
say that the CODES ARE STILL A SECRET..." (emphasis mine). Obviously,
if you watch the show nowadays, the Doctor has the ability to steer it
absolultely perfectly. He must have learned along the way, right?
+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ----------------------+
| | |\ | j...@gaffa.mit.edu | "I can say with confidence I know a |
| \|on |/rukman | j...@umass.bitnet | fair bit about LSD." -- Dan Rather |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Guitarist from hell
>
>1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
> Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
> secrets of the Time Lords.
This makes sense and would explain some points of ambiguity. But then again,
why didn't the Doctor know of the Daleks then when he first confronts them.
I would assume that the CIA would know all about the Daleks, Cybermen and
so on. The Doctor did know about Sontarans and I would think that the
Daleks were a much greater threat for the CIA to worry about than the
Sontarans. (of course, we'll never clear that up as it [the fact that
the Doctor didn't know about Daleks or Cybermen until he first met them]
an inconsistancy due to the writers not thinking ahead).
>
>2) He objected to some restructuring activity that the Agency was about
> to undertake using the Hand of Omega and Nemesis (both powerful and
> destructive devices)
>
>3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
> the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
It is not clear how he winds up with these artifacts. Based on Remembrance
of the Daleks, I think that he took the Hand of Omega when he fled
Gallifrey, but the Nemesis statue is another story. We our not certain
that it is even of Gallifreyan origin.
>4) He then proceeded to hide both devices somewhere in time and space
> (why choosing Earth for these hiding places I don't know -
> probably because this planet was a backwater)
>
Well, since the Doctor couldn't control the Tardis at that point in his life,
he probably landed on Earth in the 60's and decided it was as good of a place
as any to hide the Hand of Omega.
>5) Nemesis was hidden in 17th Century England but then put in comet orbit
> due to Lady Peintforth's interference.
>
Which may be an entire story that we have yet to see???? Or then again...
>6) The Hand of Omega was hidden in 1963 England in the Undertakers and
> was to be buried.
>
>7) This could not be successfully carried out due to the arrival of
> Stephen and Barbara following Susan (Unearthly Child)
>
Actually, that was the arrival of Ian and Barbara. And yes, they screwed
up the Doctor's plans (this was a marvelous little ploy in the Remembrance
of the Daleks, showing us that the Doctor had to return to finish some
interrupted business).
>8) .... Credits role on 26 years of time travelling adventures ....
>
>"Evidence" for this theory:
>
>a) It is well known that Dr Who had stolen the TARDIS and was on the
> run from the Time Lords.
>b) McCoy version Doctor went back to retrieve the HoO.
> etc...
>
We also know that the Doctor is a well known and possibly powerful Time Lord.
He was President for a while due to his direct descendance from Rassilon (we
know this from the episode The Invasion of Time).
>"Problems":
>
>a) Who is Susan?
as someone else already suggested, probably a stow away when the Doctor
left. My main question is was she a Time Lord (Time Lady) or human or
something else? She implies being from Gallifrey but we don't know that.
Since we didn't know about Time Lords at the time she left the show, we
never knew if she was one or not.
>b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
Probably the only thing around. If you recall from the Deadly Assassin,
all Time Capsules had been recalled except for the Doctor's. At the time
he left Gallifrey, I'm sure the time capsules that were there were under
guard of some kind.
One of my biggest problems is one that I stated already. The inconsistancy
of the knowledge of Daleks, Cybermen, and many other occurances which should
have been known to the Doctor (or at least to the High Council on Gallifrey).
>David.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Fox | fo...@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Laboratory for Artificial Intelligence |
Research | from the depths of the
The Ohio State University | Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, the toilet went crazy yesterday afternoon,
the plumber he says 'never flush a tampoon'
This great information cost me half a week's pay
and the toilet blew up later on the next day"
-- Flakes, Frank Zappa
Loren (Buck) Buchanan
>1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
> Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
> secrets of the Time Lords.
[[[stuff deleted about Omega and Nemesis]]]
I agree with your comments on the Hand of Omega, but I am not so certain
about Nemesis. I believe the metal that makes Nemesis is not of Gallefrean
origin. I do believe though that the Doctor was fully involved with
others in hiding it, as if only the Doctor knew about it how did the
Cybermen learn about it. I am not certain about when (which regeneration)
actually hid the Nemsis. Remember, Lady Peintforth knew what the current
Doctor looked like. But she may be also able to recognize Time Lords
after a regeneration. There is also that business about the painting
of Ace in period costume. The whole Nemesis story is a can of worms.
>"Problems":
>a) Who is Susan?
His granddaughter. She may have been his assistant, or more likely
she had stowed away on the TARDIS before the doctor made his escape.
>b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
It may be the only one that was available to the Doctor at the time.
Possibly it was the hot model from his childhood (I have freinds
that still drool over 57 Chevys).
B Cing U
Buck
Loren "Buck" Buchanan | internet: bu...@drax.gsfc.nasa.gov | standard disclaimer
CSC, 1100 West St. | uucp: ...!ames!dftsrv!drax!buck | "By the horns of a
Laurel, MD 20707 | phonenet: (301) 497-2531 or 9898 | sky demon..."
Jay Hinkelman
>>b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
>Well, what makes you say that it's "such an antique"? The fact that
>he didn't know how to steer it or the fact that the chameleon circuit
>had broken? First, you must remember that at least up until An
>Unearthly Child, the chameleon circuit worked perfectly - because when
>they arrived in prehistoric earth, The Doctor mutters to himself "It's
>still a police box! Why didn't it change? Oh dear, oh dear..."
Various Time Lords, including the Doctor and (I believe) the Master,
have referred to the Type 40 as being "old" or "antiquated" or have
used other, less polite terms. 8-) The Doctor, in addition, once
said that the model he stole was made "before they did the chameleon
conversions". I believe the story in question MAY be "Logopolis",
which would make sense; I know in any case that it was a Tom Baker
story.
--
Jay Hinkelman, a...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
"If da Sea King found out about dis, you know wot he'd say? He'd say
he gonna kill himself a crab, dat's wot he'd say!"
-- Sebastian, "The Little Mermaid"
Jay Hinkelman
>>a) Who is Susan?
>My main question is was she a Time Lord (Time Lady) or human or
>something else? She implies being from Gallifrey but we don't know
>that.
1) She states in "An Unearthly Child" that she is from "another time,
another world". This generally rules out humanity -- even if she was
from a future human colony, one would be hard pressed to really
believe this is what the script-writers had in mind.
2) In "The Five Doctors", she clearly recognizes the Death Zone on
Gallifrey. Since the Doctor could hardly have taken her for a visit
after he left 8-), I doubt he picked her up during his exile.
>Richard Fox
Paul Christopher Workman
> >Here is a theory:
> >
> >1) Hartnall's Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
> > Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
> > secrets of the Time Lords.
>
> This makes sense and would explain some points of ambiguity. But then again,
> why didn't the Doctor know of the Daleks then when he first confronts them.
> I would assume that the CIA would know all about the Daleks, Cybermen and
> so on. The Doctor did know about Sontarans and I would think that the
> Daleks were a much greater threat for the CIA to worry about than the
> Sontarans. (of course, we'll never clear that up as it [the fact that
> the Doctor didn't know about Daleks or Cybermen until he first met them]
> an inconsistancy due to the writers not thinking ahead).
Actually, the general impression that I got from Hartnell's Doctor
was that he was a sort of bureaucrat or lower-level politician,
with little or no scientific knowledge, and thus couldn't
really operate the TARDIS (this is of course contradicted by
later episodes when we're told he majored in Astrophysics,
or such, in the Academy ("Time and the Rani", I believe)).
Following this theory, one could argue that he was with
the Gallifrean government (probably a very Kafka-esque one),
working in some uninteresting corner of the organization,
when he discovered the existence of the Celestial
Intervention Agency. Finding it morally reprehensible,
(dirty dealing between CIA and Sontarans?), he steals
their tools and weapons, and a TARDIS, and runs off with
his granddaughter Susan, worring that she might be used
as a hostage. Perhaps the Master was in the CIA, and
the Doctor confronted him, before fleeing, when he left evidence
of CIA wrongdoings (which were lated blamed on CIA evil-
guy-turned-CIA-scapegoat, the Master).
How's this theory? Fun, but I'm sure several
of you can punch it full of holes.
--paul
Philip Stephens
> Here is a theory:
[details of theory deleted]
Yes, this sounds like a solid theory, and fits the facts quite well.
> "Problems":
>
> a) Who is Susan?
Although I haven't seen the first Doctor Who story, as I understand it
Susan was the Doctor's grandchild. In the book "The key to Time" (which
contains production notes for the first 21 years of the show) it was mentioned
that Susan was made out to be the Doctor's granddaughter, due to the fact that
it was not "proper" for a young girl to be roaming around in the presence of
an old man!
As to whether this was mentioned in the TV show itself, is another matter
entirely.
> b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
The TARDIS happened to be in dry-dock at the time of the Doctor's escape,
and so it was basically the only time machine available for him to "borrow".
That is why the chameon (sp?) circuit packed up soon after, when the Doctor
landed on the planet earth for his first adventure; it is also the reason for
it's unreliability.
As we know, the Doctor has attempted to fix the TARDIS many a time (how
often have we seen the console in bits and pieces, eh?).
>
> David.
>
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_ Philip J. Stephens -_- `My Apple II+ may only have 64K, one _-_
_-_ Department of Computer Science -_- 5 1/4 " drive, a stuffed joystick, _-_
_-_ University College, Canberra -_- and run at 1 MHz; but it's mine!!!' _-_
Michael Lee
|>Here is a theory:
|>1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
|> Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
|> secrets of the Time Lords.
|
|This makes sense and would explain some points of ambiguity. But then again,
|why didn't the Doctor know of the Daleks then when he first confronts them.
|I would assume that the CIA would know all about the Daleks, Cybermen and
|so on. The Doctor did know about Sontarans and I would think that the
|Daleks were a much greater threat for the CIA to worry about than the
|Sontarans. (of course, we'll never clear that up as it [the fact that
|the Doctor didn't know about Daleks or Cybermen until he first met them]
|an inconsistancy due to the writers not thinking ahead).
I agree with this...I think, in fact, he was the head of the C.I.A. - it makes
it even more clear why he would be president (CIA is probably just as good a
route up as being head of an academy) I think we can throw out the Doctor's
ignorance (acted?) of the Daleks and Cybermen as something that made sense at
first, but later information made impractical. In fact, the Doctor already
knew that the Daleks were what the hand should get BEFORE THE DALEKS...so I think
it is safe to assume he "played" ignorant. However, I doubt he knew the true
origin of the Daleks and about Davros until after he witnessed it - In fact, it
is likely no Time Lord knew the whole story until then. I think this is
supported by the fact that the Doctor did not, even in Rememberence, know about
two rival Dalek factions.
|
|>3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
|> the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
|
|It is not clear how he winds up with these artifacts. Based on Remembrance
|of the Daleks, I think that he took the Hand of Omega when he fled
|Gallifrey, but the Nemesis statue is another story. We our not certain
|that it is even of Gallifreyan origin.
It's been a while since I've seen Silver Nemesis, but the Hand of Omega is such
a strong item that he must have been either given it (and been a high figure) orstolen it.
|
|>8) .... Credits role on 26 years of time travelling adventures ....
Actually, more like 520 years of "who" time - Does anyone remember if
Romana says in Ribos Operation how many years it's been since the Doctor
stole his TARDIS --- that'd be a real good figure, (more likely double that
amount)
|>"Evidence" for this theory:
|>
|>a) It is well known that Dr Who had stolen the TARDIS and was on the
|> run from the Time Lords.
|>b) McCoy version Doctor went back to retrieve the HoO.
|> etc...
|>
|We also know that the Doctor is a well known and possibly powerful Time Lord.
|He was President for a while due to his direct descendance from Rassilon (we
|know this from the episode The Invasion of Time).
It isn't, to my knowledge, a requirement to be a descendent of Rassilon to be
president. I wouldn't be surprised that he (and for that matter, the Master)
are likely decendents of Rassilon, but that doesn't mean they necessarily are.
|
|>"Problems":
|>
|>a) Who is Susan?
|as someone else already suggested, probably a stow away when the Doctor
|left. My main question is was she a Time Lord (Time Lady) or human or
|something else? She implies being from Gallifrey but we don't know that.
|Since we didn't know about Time Lords at the time she left the show, we
|never knew if she was one or not.
I actually believe, in fact, that she is his grandaughter. I don't see any
reason to believe she is not, and if, as has been hinted, (as recently as
Season 26, if I remember right) that the rest of his immediate family faced
a tragic (and unknown) fate, and he is still reluctant to discuss it.
|>b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
|Probably the only thing around. If you recall from the Deadly Assassin,
|all Time Capsules had been recalled except for the Doctor's. At the time
|he left Gallifrey, I'm sure the time capsules that were there were under
|guard of some kind.
If, there was, as has been suggested at various times, a violent upheaval on
Gallifrey that killed off the Doctor's immediate family, he likely took thei
first thing he could get.
|
|One of my biggest problems is one that I stated already. The inconsistancy
|of the knowledge of Daleks, Cybermen, and many other occurances which should
|have been known to the Doctor (or at least to the High Council on Gallifrey).
Simple, at first, until he was caught at the end of his second incarnation, he
did not want to discuss his knowledge of certain events to be revealed to either
his enemies or his companions. This may especially be true that he wanted this
kept secret from Susan, Ian, and Barbara.
This may sound stupid, but what, in fact, do we know (or are fairly sure) we know about the Doctor - why not compile a simple 'list' of facts we can be fairly
(75%) confident that we know the answer.
Michael Lee
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one:
Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it"
1767, from a letter to M. Damilaville (from Voltaire).
Jeff Standish
Well, the story of the Doctor's origin (as presented in the RPG, and I beleive
it is confirmed in some episodes) as I have heard it is that the Master
organized some type of revolt at the Prydonian Academy where the doctor was
a professor. At least I believe he was a teacher of some sort, which would
provide one reason for his taking the name "Doctor." In any case, when
this revolt was put down by the Citadel Guards, many students and other people
slain, along with most of the Doctor's family. For this and other reason's
I do not recall offhand, the Doctor stole a TARDIS and fled Galifrey with
his only remaining family member, his grand-daughter, "Susan."
Jeff Standish / Dreamwalker
Guitarist from hell
>> b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
>
> The TARDIS happened to be in dry-dock at the time of the Doctor's escape,
>and so it was basically the only time machine available for him to "borrow".
>That is why the chameon (sp?) circuit packed up soon after, when the Doctor
>landed on the planet earth for his first adventure; it is also the reason for
>it's unreliability.
Not true. Based on some of the comments made by the Doctor and Susan,
they did not land in England 1963 right after leaving Gallifrey. They had
some adventures and made it to at least some earlier period in Earth's
history as the Doctor (or maybe Susan) had commented about the Tardis taking
on the shape of a pillar or something like that. Only after several months
of journeying did they wind up in England 1963 where the Chamelion Circuit
picked the shape of a Police Box and got subsequently stuck. They stayed
in 1963 for several months while Susan enrolled in the nearby school.
> As we know, the Doctor has attempted to fix the TARDIS many a time (how
>often have we seen the console in bits and pieces, eh?).
Well, he tried to fix it at least once in Attack of the Cybermen where he
was successful although the Circuit did not find a shape that blended in
with its surroundings. I do not believe the Doctor ever tried to fix it
on any other occasion except for Logopolis when he went to Earth to
meassure a real Police Box. He did not dissassemble the console though on
that occasion.
>_-_ Philip J. Stephens -_- `My Apple II+ may only have 64K, one _-
>_-_ Department of Computer Science -_- 5 1/4 " drive, a stuffed joystick, __
>_-_ University College, Canberra -_- and run at 1 MHz; but it's mine!!!' _-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Fox | fo...@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Laboratory for Artificial Intelligence |
Research | from the depths of the
The Ohio State University | Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"For all of you French people who think that you're outta sight
and for all the people in Spain who think that French people are
where its at" -- A Little Green Rosetta, Frank Zappa
Mike Benefield
>> >Here is a theory:
>> >
>> >1) Hartnall's Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
>> > Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
>> > secrets of the Time Lords.
>>
>> This makes sense and would explain some points of ambiguity. But then again,
>> why didn't the Doctor know of the Daleks then when he first confronts them.
>> I would assume that the CIA would know all about the Daleks, Cybermen and
>> so on. The Doctor did know about Sontarans and I would think that the
astrophysics at some university. Being a very reclusive researcher,
he only used a TARDIS on rare research expeditions (even then he
probably wouldn't pilot it). At some point during his peaceful life
at the university, he discovered something that the Celestail
Intervention Agency was doing with the Hand Of Omega (like use it to
manipulate the Sontarans, which would explain his knowledge of them).
The CIA became aware that the Dr. had discovered their evil doings (I
got it, they were selling cheap imitations of the HoO to the Sontarans
in exchange for hostages, then using the profits to fund the Thals in
their war against the Daleks!! :-)
Anyway, when the CIA found out that he had been snooping
around, the staged the riots (mentioned in an earlier post) with the
intention of killing him. He escaped with Susan in a stolen TARDIS
after brilliantly stealing the HoO, and exposing the head of the CIA,
the Master! (would this mean that Ollie North was an early incarnation
of the Master? it would explain alot! :-})
This would explain some of the HoO stuff. It would explain
why the Master is obsessed with killing the Dr. etc....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Benefield
UUCP: (seismo!umcp-cs | allegra!hopkins)!jhunix!someone
Internet: som...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | zap!pow!boom!bang
^^^^^^^ this isn't a joke
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Jay Thomsen
The inconsistencies throughout Dr. Who history could possibly be the
result of the doctor meeting himself in the various anniversary shows.
If your time line converges from five different places at once there must
be some kind of backlash in the time-space continuum that is going to
cause all kinds of inconsistencies like the grandfather paradox.
Thus two conflicting explanations could true during different parts
of the Doctor's time stream.
To justify that something really nasty happens when you loop your time
stream consider this:
There have been countless times that the Doctor could have looped back
on his time stream and saved lives. Adric's death is a prime example.
The Doctor tells Tegan and Nyssa that he just go back in time and save Adric.
The Master could also use this technique to pop back to any one of his
numerous defeats by the Doctor and prevent the Doctor from winning. Thus there
must be very good reasons why an individual can not loop back on their own
time stream. Inconsistency or a fuzzy time stream could be the result.
Dan Thomsen
tho...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu
hon...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
The rebellion theory also appears in the short story in the 20th anniversary
magazine, which also has a list of all episodes through Davison's last season,
and a list of companions as well. Curiously, they said that Susan was the
last remaining descendant of Rassilon...
Travis Butler
Loren (Buck) Buchanan
[[[lots of stuff deleted]]]
>I agree with this...I think, in fact, he was the head of the C.I.A. - it makes
generation Time Lord.
I would also suspect that the Doctor may have had little or no dealings with
the Daleks unitl "The Daleks". They would not have been a universal threat
until after they had devloped the means for space travel. All of this is
rather difficult to discuss with out an accurate time line (and even then
with the Doctors bopping back an forth throughout other planets history
it would be rather tough to follow).
>This may sound stupid, but what, in fact, do we know (or are fairly sure) we
>know about the Doctor - why not compile a simple 'list' of facts we can be
>fairly (75%) confident that we know the answer.
A lot less than we would like to know, but we are working on it.
Paul Christopher Workman
> Curiously, they said that Susan was the
> last remaining descendant of Rassilon...
That means that the Doctor isn't descended from Rassilon,
but he married (or at least reproduced with) someone
who was!
Perhaps that's the key to the whole thing: the Doctor
married into a sort of royal family, i.e., the family
of direct lineage to Rassilon. After a while, he
couldn't take the lack of attention he got (in contrast
to the gobs of attention the Gallifreyan media gave
his wife) so he got steamed, kidnapped their granddaughter,
and ran off in a Tardis!
And the program that we call "Doctor Who" is really
entitled "Gallifrey's Most Wanted"! What's the 800 number?
--paul
Richard Ney
> > As we know, the Doctor has attempted to fix the TARDIS many a time (how
> >often have we seen the console in bits and pieces, eh?).
>
> Well, he tried to fix it at least once in Attack of the Cybermen where he
> was successful although the Circuit did not find a shape that blended in
> with its surroundings. I do not believe the Doctor ever tried to fix it
> on any other occasion except for Logopolis when he went to Earth to
> meassure a real Police Box. He did not dissassemble the console though on
> that occasion.
Well I am not one for naming every single time the Dr. tried to fix the Tardis
but I recall that he had the console in pieces during the "Horn of the Nimon"
and several Jon Pertwee episodes (Though I do admit the Jon Pertwee era was
more of trying to get the tardis working again), but I do remember other
occassions that the Doctor was working on the tardis from Pertwee on.
James Seidman
>> Curiously, they said that Susan was the
>> last remaining descendant of Rassilon...
>That means that the Doctor isn't descended from Rassilon,
>but he married (or at least reproduced with) someone
>who was!
Um, I think there's some really faulty logic there. Remember, the Doctor is
Susan's grandfather, not father (at least for the sake of this argument).
Therefore, she could have gotten her Rassilonian blood from her other parent
(the one who wasn't the Doctor's progeny).
By the way, is being a Time{Lord|Lady} hereditary, or something you become
by graduating from the academy, or what? Because I believe that it's only
the Time{Lords|Ladies} who get to regenerate, and not Gallifreyans at large.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Seidman, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711. (714) 621-8000 x2026
DISCLAIMER: I don't even know if these are opinions, let alone those of
anyone other than me.
Kevin R. Grazier
>Well, the story of the Doctor's origin (as presented in the RPG, and I beleive
>it is confirmed in some episodes) as I have heard it is that the Master
>organized some type of revolt at the Prydonian Academy where the doctor was
>a professor.
That's a simliar story as given by Eric Saward in the story he wrote
for the 20th Anniversary Magazine, except for the fact that the
Doctor was a Tardis engineer instead of a professor (thus giving him
easy access to a Tardis).
> In any case, when
>this revolt was put down by the Citadel Guards, many students and other people
>slain, along with most of the Doctor's family. For this and other reason's
>I do not recall offhand, the Doctor stole a TARDIS and fled Galifrey with
>his only remaining family member, his grand-daughter, "Susan."
I'm not so sure about this. In "The Curse of Fenric," the Doctor is
asked "Don't you have a family?" The Doctor replies sort of wistfully:
"I don't know." He doesn't say "they're dead" nor does he make any mention
of Susan (then, again, I don't think she was actually his granddaughter
anyway -- I think Susan used "grandfather" the way many people use "uncle").
The impression I'm getting from the past couple seasons ("The Greatest
Show in the Galaxy," "Silver Nemesis," and especially "Fenric"), is
that not only do we not know the Doctor's origins, but he is just now
starting to become aware -- or he's beginning to remember -- just
who (no pun intended) and what he is.
If the new producers follow this thread, things could get REAL interesting
in the near future.
Kevin R. Grazier Purdue: the home of astronauts
Purdue University and quarterbacks.
Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
INTERNET: gra...@physics.purdue.edu
Number 6
1) A group of people back in 1963 had a cute idea for a historical drama
series for children.
2) They wanted to be able to show the kids scenes from many periods of
history, thus they required time travel.
3) They hired Hartnell to be the gruff-old father-figure he was (but with a
heart of gold, of course), and added Susan to give the kids someone to
relate to, and Barbara and Ian to give them the educational stuff.
4) Unfortunately for the show's original concept (but fortunately for us
devoted fans) they hired Terry Nation to write the second episode.
The Daleks were born and Dr. Who became a "future" show as much as an
historical one.
5) 26 years of hacking by other script writers, producers, directors, and
story editors have fleshed out the character somewhat, little by little.
Not all of their innovations were well thought out, and many of them
contridict each other, but hey, it's been 26 years -- that's a lot of
writing.
6) Like the ancient story tellers, neither the BBC nor anyone else anywhere
in the galaxy knows who Dr. Who is, where or when he came from, or
what he's going to do next. But with each tale, they plan on giving
us, the viewers, more mysterious details to ponder and discuss.
btw: Concerning the Doctor's stealing the Tardis: Remember that originally,
the Doctor told Barb and Ian that he'd *built* the Tardis.
==============================================================================
| Greg Anderson | hpdsla!grega | gr...@hpdsla.HP.COM |
==============================================================================
Philip Stephens
>
> they did not land in England 1963 right after leaving Gallifrey. They had
> some adventures and made it to at least some earlier period in Earth's
> history as the Doctor (or maybe Susan) had commented about the Tardis taking
> on the shape of a pillar or something like that. Only after several months
> of journeying did they wind up in England 1963 where the Chamelion Circuit
> picked the shape of a Police Box and got subsequently stuck. They stayed
> in 1963 for several months while Susan enrolled in the nearby school.
Sorry, let me clarify that point for you: by first adventure, I meant the
first televised adventure! I realise that the TARDIS functioned reasonably
well until they landed on earth, at which point the Chamelion Circuit gave up
the ghost and has never worked since. It seems to be one of those circuits
that the Doctor _doesn't_ know how to fix ;-)
In any case, the TARDIS was in dry-dock awaiting repairs; obviously the
previous owner knew there were problems with the machine, even if they hadn't
completely manifested themselves at that stage. Call it a 1000-year checkup
:-) The Time Lords were never in the habit of leaving working TARDIS around
Gallifrey for people to just pick up and stroll off with.
> >As we know, the Doctor has attempted to fix the TARDIS many a time (how
> >often have we seen the console in bits and pieces, eh?).
>
> Well, he tried to fix it at least once in Attack of the Cybermen where he
> was successful although the Circuit did not find a shape that blended in
> with its surroundings. I do not believe the Doctor ever tried to fix it
> on any other occasion except for Logopolis when he went to Earth to
> meassure a real Police Box. He did not dissassemble the console though on
> that occasion.
Apart from "Attack of the Cybermen" and "Logopolis", I do remember one time
during Tom Baker's rein when the Doctor had dismantled the console and opened
a few portals on the wall in an attempt to do something about the Chamelion
Circuit (although my memory on what he was attempting to fix may be faulty).
As well as this, he has dismanted the console many a time to fix one thing or
another, which is what I was refering to.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
_-_ Philip J. Stephens -_- `My Apple II+ may only have 64K, one _-_
_-_ Department of Computer Science -_- 5 1/4 " drive, a stuffed joystick, _-_
_-_ University College, Canberra -_- and run at 1 MHz; but it's mine!!!' _-_
John Woods
> In article <AZnUU8O00...@andrew.cmu.edu> pw...@andrew.cmu.edu (Paul Christopher Workman) writes:
> >> Curiously, they said that Susan was the
> >> last remaining descendant of Rassilon...
> >That means that the Doctor isn't descended from Rassilon,
> >but he married (or at least reproduced with) someone
> >who was!
> Um, I think there's some really faulty logic there. Remember, the Doctor is
> Susan's grandfather, not father
Rassilon could have married the Doctor's daughter, making Susan Rassilon's
daughter, or the Doctor could have married Rassilon's daughter, making Susan
Rassilon's great-granddaughter, or the Doctor could be Rassilon's father.
All of these would make Susan, but not the Doctor, a descendant of Rassilon.
(Assuming, of course, that "granddaughter" wasn't just a term of affection,
and that the statement that Susan is a descendant of Rassilon is true)
--
John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (508) 626-1101
...!decvax!frog!john, jo...@frog.UUCP, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, j...@eddie.mit.edu
J G Miller
(Daniel Jay Thomsen) writes:
>There have been countless times that the Doctor could have looped back
>on his time stream and saved lives. Adric's death is a prime example.
>The Doctor tells Tegan and Nyssa that he just go back in time and save Adric.
What I could never understand was why the Doctor did not zoom over
to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
--
++++++++: J G Miller mail: Room 024, Chemistry Building
InterNet: <a4...@uwocc1.uwo.CA> University of Western Ontario
NetNorth: <A4...@UWOCC1.BITNET> LONDON, Ontario, N6A 5B7
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Cliff Chen
>In article <1990Feb5.1...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu> tho...@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu
>(Daniel Jay Thomsen) writes:
>>There have been countless times that the Doctor could have looped back
>>on his time stream and saved lives. Adric's death is a prime example.
>>The Doctor tells Tegan and Nyssa that he just go back in time and save Adric.
>
>What I could never understand was why the Doctor did not zoom over
>to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
>*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
>
He explains the reasons in the episode immediately following
Earthshock. However, I don't remember them. I believe that the Doctor
explained it as impossible to do. Because it would cause him to rematerialize
in too close a space as himself at the same time. And as we all know, there
can't be two Doctors at any one time and space, unless of course, it is a
useful plot device and if the circumstances are dire enough (i.e. all of the
episodes titled: "The <n> Doctors").
Raleff the Wanderer
ral...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
James Seidman
>to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
>*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
If I remember correctly (which is not at all guaranteed), he could not get a
fix on the ship because of its erratic spiralling backwards through time.
If you'll remember, the cybermen really wanted him to fix on the ship, even
going so far as to threaten Tegan's life. The Doctor explained that it just
wasn't possible given the circumstances.
Erik Warren Selberg
What I could never understand was why the Doctor did not zoom over
to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
>>>
because (a) Matthew Waterhouse (sp?) wanted to leave the show in a bang and
because (b) we wanted Adric to die.
#========##========##========##========*========##========##========##========#
# MegaloErik: Loosing contact with VICE 10... Welcome to Andrew! #
# ARPA: es...@andrew.cmu.edu Fido: 129/107 BBS: Mac @ Night (412) 268-8974 #
# GEnie: E.SELBERG Delphi: LORDERIK CIS: 71470,2127 MacList: 6009/1 #
#========##========##========##========*========##========##========##========#
...48 hours of continuous study have proven that Elvis is alive and teaching
math at CMU.
Gary Duzan
=><<<
=>What I could never understand was why the Doctor did not zoom over
=>to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
=>*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
=>>>>
=>
=>because (a) Matthew Waterhouse (sp?) wanted to leave the show in a bang and
=>because (b) we wanted Adric to die.
=>
And (c), I believe the console had just been blasted with one of those neat
new Cyber-guns. It would be rather tricky to rapair the TARDIS & rescue Adric
in that short a time.
Gary Duzan
Time Lord
Third Regeneration
gdt...@freezer.it.udel.edu
_o_ -------------------------- _o_
[|o o|] "My field is blood and guts programming." -- Me [|o o|]
|_O_| "Don't listen to me; I never do." -- Doctor Who |_O_|
Speaker for the Dead
>In article <YZp83ga00...@andrew.cmu.edu> es...@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:
>=>because (a) Matthew Waterhouse (sp?) wanted to leave the show in a bang and
>=>because (b) we wanted Adric to die.
>new Cyber-guns. It would be rather tricky to rapair the TARDIS & rescue Adric
>in that short a time.
The TARDIS is a time machine. There's no rush. The doctor could repair the
console and return to rescue Adric any time he wanted, even this season.
--
"The fascination of what's difficult has dried the sap out of my veins" - Yeats
E-MAIL: L.Nicholas...@Mac.Dartmouth.EDU
Jay Hinkelman
>to the space ship in the Tardis, pull Adric in, then dematerialize,
>*before* the ship crashed into the planet in the original time frame.
Because there were Cybermen on board the TARDIS with itchy trigger
fingers.
--
Jay Hinkelman, a...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
"Can you imagine wot King Triton woud say? I tell you wot he woud say
-- he'd say he's gonna kill himself a crab, dat's wot he'd say!"
Anthony Lee
>The TARDIS is a time machine. There's no rush. The doctor could repair the
>console and return to rescue Adric any time he wanted, even this season.
Wait a minute, what on earth are you talking about ! I remember at the end
of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
"don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
Anthony
--
Anthony Lee (Humble PhD student) (Alias Time Lord Doctor)
ACSnet: ant...@batserver.cs.uq.oz TEL:+(61)-7-371-2651
Internet: ant...@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au +(61)-7-377-4139 (w)
SNAIL: Dept Comp. Science, University of Qld, St Lucia, Qld 4067, Australia
Speaker for the Dead
>l...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Speaker for the Dead) writes:
>Wait a minute, what on earth are you talking about ! I remember at the end
>of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
>"don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
>is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
>
is possible. The laws of time I think you refer to are a sort of codified
non-interventionist stance of the time lords. I don't think they are actually
physical laws that can't be overcome. I think the Doctor may be worried about
possible repercussions (alteration of history, etc.).
Wayne Hudson
>I don't think it's a matter of opportunity. In a time machine, almost anything
>is possible. The laws of time I think you refer to are a sort of codified
>non-interventionist stance of the time lords. I don't think they are actually
>physical laws that can't be overcome. I think the Doctor may be worried about
>possible repercussions (alteration of history, etc.).
Well he's also said that if he were to violate the laws of time, the Time
Lords would know immediately, via the Matrix. (And it DOESN'T lie! :-))
--
umhu...@ccu.umanitoba.ca "The more things change, the more they stay insane."
Speaker for the Dead
>In article <19...@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> l...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Speaker for the Dead) writes:
> Well he's also said that if he were to violate the laws of time, the Time
>Lords would know immediately, via the Matrix. (And it DOESN'T lie! :-))
Well, that's not the same as a temporal impossibility. It is the legislated
position of the Time Lords which prohibits him from rescuing Adric. Remember,
he's broken the "laws" of the _Time Lords_ before. I doubt if he has ever
broken the laws of _time_. I don't think that the two sets of laws are
equivalent because the Time Lords are not omnipotent.
Joseph Poirier
>of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
>"don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
>is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
>
Hogwash. The Doctor could easily go back to a point before "Earthshock"
ever happened at all. Then what? The premise at the end of Earthshock
is that the explosion wiped out the dinosaurs. Now: clearly we
exist. Let's assume for the moment, in the interests of sci-fi, that
the explosion DID cause the extinction of the dinosaurs. If the Doctor
were to go back and save Adric before he died, then how can you explain
our history (i.e. if there was no explosion, then the dinosaurs would
not have been wiped out).
I think it points towards multiple time-lines... ultimately. Maybe I'll
post my thoughts on this...
Joseph
--
Joseph Poirier
Internet: j...@cs.purdue.edu UUCP: ...!{decwrl, ucbvax}!purdue!jrp
CS 180 Lab TA, PUCC General Consultant, "Have Senior Attitude, Will Travel"
Gordon Cross
+ You have a time machine. You got back in time to before you are born.
+You then procede to try to kill your parents, grandparents, etc - generally
+prevent your birth.
+
+ Can you? If you succede you cannot then got back in time and succede ie.
+you need to be born to prevent yourself being born.
+
+ Conclusion - there are some physical laws of time, and some moral laws
+of time - the latter when broken presumably incurr the wrath of the high
+council and the CIA, unless they do it themselves of course :-)
+
+[Of course this is only a TV program, this is not yet a "real" physics
+problem, more a scripwriting problem.]
There does exist a *real* physical theory that resolves the time paradox you
are describing. It would allow me to *actually succeed* in preventing my own
birth and yet continue to exist!! Further explainations upon request ...
--
Gordon Cross UUCP: uunet!ingr!crossgl "all opinions are
111 Westminister Way INTERNET: cro...@ingr.com mine and not those
Madison, AL 35758 MA BELL: (205) 730-7842 of my employer."
News Administrator
fools as the first Doctor. Trying to stop the ship from crashing had already
failed. ( we're dealing with time travel here ). Given the facts...
1) In the distant past something crashed,, exploded into the Earth. Causing the death of the dinosaurs and allowing the evolution of man .....
2) You're on something traveling into the past and about to crash, explode into
the Earth...
Do you try and stop it ?
I think the Doctor had it figured out.
From: im...@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Path: imcc
Iain....
Timothy Bruening
> Here is a theory:
>
> secrets of the Time Lords.
>
> to undertake using the Hand of Omega and Nemesis (both powerful and
> destructive devices)
>
> 3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
> the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
>
> 4) He then proceeded to hide both devices somewhere in time and space
> (why choosing Earth for these hiding places I don't know -
> probably because this planet was a backwater)
>
> 5) Nemesis was hidden in 17th Century England but then put in comet orbit
> due to Lady Peintforth's interference.
>
> 6) The Hand of Omega was hidden in 1963 England in the Undertakers and
> was to be buried.
>
> 7) This could not be successfully carried out due to the arrival of
> Stephen and Barbara following Susan (Unearthly Child)
>
> 8) .... Credits role on 26 years of time travelling adventures ....
>
> "Evidence" for this theory:
>
> a) It is well known that Dr Who had stolen the TARDIS and was on the
> run from the Time Lords.
> b) McCoy version Doctor went back to retrieve the HoO.
> etc...
>
> "Problems":
>
> a) Who is Susan?
> b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
And then in a very weird twist, the Doctor has learned that SHE had many incarnations BEFORE the Hartnell one! At one such incarnation worked for the Division, which seems similar to the CIA.
Timothy Bruening
> >Here is a theory:
> >
> >1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
> > Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
> > secrets of the Time Lords.
>
> why didn't the Doctor know of the Daleks then when he first confronts them.
> I would assume that the CIA would know all about the Daleks, Cybermen and
> so on. The Doctor did know about Sontarans and I would think that the
> Daleks were a much greater threat for the CIA to worry about than the
> Sontarans. (of course, we'll never clear that up as it [the fact that
> the Doctor didn't know about Daleks or Cybermen until he first met them]
> an inconsistancy due to the writers not thinking ahead).
> >
> >2) He objected to some restructuring activity that the Agency was about
> > to undertake using the Hand of Omega and Nemesis (both powerful and
> > destructive devices)
> >
> >3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
> > the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
>
> of the Daleks, I think that he took the Hand of Omega when he fled
> Gallifrey, but the Nemesis statue is another story. We our not certain
> that it is even of Gallifreyan origin.
>
> >4) He then proceeded to hide both devices somewhere in time and space
> > (why choosing Earth for these hiding places I don't know -
> > probably because this planet was a backwater)
> >
> he probably landed on Earth in the 60's and decided it was as good of a place
> as any to hide the Hand of Omega.
> >5) Nemesis was hidden in 17th Century England but then put in comet orbit
> > due to Lady Peintforth's interference.
> >
> >6) The Hand of Omega was hidden in 1963 England in the Undertakers and
> > was to be buried.
> >
> >7) This could not be successfully carried out due to the arrival of
> > Stephen and Barbara following Susan (Unearthly Child)
> >
> up the Doctor's plans (this was a marvelous little ploy in the Remembrance
> of the Daleks, showing us that the Doctor had to return to finish some
> interrupted business).
>
Why didn't the 1st Doctor take care of the Hand of Omega matter when he was on 1960s Earth at the end of "The Chase"?
The Doctor
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
All appears to change when we change. -Henri-Fr=C3=A9d=C3=A9ric Amiel
The Doctor
stephen.w...@gmail.com
>>was on 1960s Earth at the end of "The Chase"?
>
>Was he there?
The Doctor
tsbru...@gmail.com
> l...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Speaker for the Dead) writes:
> >The TARDIS is a time machine. There's no rush. The doctor could repair the
> >console and return to rescue Adric any time he wanted, even this season.
> Wait a minute, what on earth are you talking about ! I remember at the end
> of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
> "don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
> is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
tsbru...@gmail.com
solar penguin
were photographed next to...? Maybe it was the imposter's
TARDIS...?
--
solar penguin
tsbr...@gmail.com
The Doctor
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Nova Scotia on 17 Aug 2021 vote Liberal! Beware https://mindspring.com
The Doctor
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
The Doctor
The Doctor
tsbr...@gmail.com
> In article <f55a2ed1-95f8-45cb...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >2635, 2636, 2637 On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:05:40 PM UTC-7,
> >stephen.w...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Yads yapped:
> >> >>Why didn't the 1st Doctor take care of the Hand of Omega matter when he
> >> >>was on 1960s Earth at the end of "The Chase"?
> >> >
> >> >Was he there?
> >> No. We know now that it wasn't really the 1st Doctor.
> >
> >Am imposter 1st Doctor was there?
> Yes. Engineered by the Daleks.
tsbr...@gmail.com
> In article <70138f55-7753-432d...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >2634, 2635, 2636 On Monday, February 12, 1990 at 4:14:46 AM UTC-8,
> >Anthony Lee wrote:
> >> l...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Speaker for the Dead) writes:
> >> >The TARDIS is a time machine. There's no rush. The doctor could repair the
> >> >console and return to rescue Adric any time he wanted, even this season.
> >> Wait a minute, what on earth are you talking about ! I remember at the end
> >> of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
> >> "don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
> >> is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
> >
> >Why should that stop the Doctor? He has little regard for rules!
> 31 years later.
The Doctor
The Doctor
tsbru...@gmail.com
> In article <f1285160-e46d-4229...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >2690 On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 2:32:28 PM UTC-7, netk...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> In article <70138f55-7753-432d...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >2634, 2635, 2636 On Monday, February 12, 1990 at 4:14:46 AM UTC-8,
> >> >Anthony Lee wrote:
> >> >> l...@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Speaker for the Dead) writes:
> >> >> >The TARDIS is a time machine. There's no rush. The doctor could
> >repair the
> >> >> >console and return to rescue Adric any time he wanted, even this season.
> >> >> Wait a minute, what on earth are you talking about ! I remember at the end
> >> >> of that episode, Tagen asked the Doctor to save Adric and the Doctor,
> >> >> "don't ever ask him to do that again". I hope you realised that there
> >> >> is such a thing as the laws of time even to the Time Lords.
> >> >
> >> >Why should that stop the Doctor? He has little regard for rules!
> >> 31 years later.
> >
> >No time limit on replies.
> But you want Adric rescued.
The Doctor
solar penguin
> In article <f55a2ed1-95f8-45cb...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2635, 2636, 2637 On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:05:40 PM UTC-7,
>> stephen.w...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Yads yapped:
>>>>> of Omega matter when he was on 1960s Earth
>>>> at the end of "The Chase"?
>>>>
>>>> Was he there?
>>>
>>> No. We know now that it wasn't really the 1st Doctor.
>>
>> Am imposter 1st Doctor was there?
>
> Yes. Engineered by the Daleks.
Or did they make another one?
--
solar penguin
solar penguin
> In article <eaab7204-d942-48f4...@googlegroups.com>,
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2689 On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 2:32:57 PM UTC-7, netk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> In article <f55a2ed1-95f8-45cb...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2635, 2636, 2637 On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:05:40 PM UTC-7,
>>>> stephen.w...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Yads yapped:
>>>>>>> of Omega matter when he was on 1960s Earth
>>>>>> at the end of "The Chase"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was he there?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. We know now that it wasn't really the 1st Doctor.
>>>>
>>>> Am imposter 1st Doctor was there?
>>>
>>> Yes. Engineered by the Daleks.
>>
>> I hadn't known that said imposter had made it to Earth.
>
> This is the Chase we talk about.
--
solar penguin
The Doctor
The Doctor
solar penguin
> In article <se2l8r$hs1$1...@dont-email.me>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.con> wrote:
>> The Idiot insisted:
>>
>>> In article <f55a2ed1-95f8-45cb...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2635, 2636, 2637 On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:05:40 PM UTC-7,
>>>> stephen.w...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Yads yapped:
>> [Tim typed:]
>>>>>>> Why didn't the 1st Doctor take care of the Hand
>>>>>>> of Omega matter when he was on 1960s Earth
>>>>>> at the end of "The Chase"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was he there?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. We know now that it wasn't really the 1st Doctor.
>>>>
>>>> Am imposter 1st Doctor was there?
>>>
>>> Yes. Engineered by the Daleks.
>>
>> On 1960s Earth? Is this the same one that was on Mechanus?
>> Or did they make another one?
>>
>
> That should be the right one!
>
--
solar penguin
solar penguin
> In article <se2l8s$hs1$2...@dont-email.me>,
> solar penguin <solar....@gmail.con> wrote:
>> The Idiot insisted:
>>
>>> In article <eaab7204-d942-48f4...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 2689 On Friday, July 30, 2021 at 2:32:57 PM UTC-7, netk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> In article <f55a2ed1-95f8-45cb...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> tsbru...@gmail.com <tsbru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 2635, 2636, 2637 On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 11:05:40 PM UTC-7,
>>>>>> stephen.w...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Yads yapped:
>> [Tim typed:]
>>>>>>>>> Why didn't the 1st Doctor take care of the Hand
>>>>>>>>> of Omega matter when he was on 1960s Earth
>>>>>>>> at the end of "The Chase"?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Was he there?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. We know now that it wasn't really the 1st Doctor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am imposter 1st Doctor was there?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. Engineered by the Daleks.
>>>>
>>>> I hadn't known that said imposter had made it to Earth.
>>>
>>> This is the Chase we talk about.
>>
>> Where in The Chase does the robot Doctor make it to Earth?
>>
>
> Tim is mixed up as usual!
Tim claimed that the real Doctor was on 1960s Earth at the
end of The Chase. You and Stephen Wilson then claimed
that it was actually an imposter (probably the Daleks' robot
double of the Doctor.)
You're all wrong. No Doctor or imposter was seen on Earth
at the End of The Chase. The double died on Mechanus
and the real Doctor visited Earth in the middle of the story,
not the end.
--
solar penguin
The Doctor
The Doctor
tsbru...@gmail.com
> Here is a theory:
> 1) Hartnall Version of Dr. Who was/is a member of the Gallifreian Celestial
> Intervention Agency. Consequently he is privy to MOST of the important
> secrets of the Time Lords.
> to undertake using the Hand of Omega and Nemesis (both powerful and
> destructive devices)
> 3) He fled Gallifrey, but only by stealing an old Mark3 TARDIS, with
> the Hand of Omega and Nemsis.
> (why choosing Earth for these hiding places I don't know -
> probably because this planet was a backwater)
> due to Lady Peintforth's interference.
> was to be buried.
> 7) This could not be successfully carried out due to the arrival of
> Stephen and Barbara following Susan (Unearthly Child)
> "Evidence" for this theory:
> a) It is well known that Dr Who had stolen the TARDIS and was on the
> run from the Time Lords.
> b) McCoy version Doctor went back to retrieve the HoO.
> etc...
> "Problems":
> a) Who is Susan?
> b) Why did the Doctor steal such an antique time capsule?
Theory boosted by a pre-Hartnall incarnation fleeing the Division and hiding on Earth as a human named Ruth in Fugitive of the Judoon.
The Doctor
tsbru...@gmail.com
The Doctor
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
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