Good and Evil, Fascism and Hogwarts
Richard Harter
Harry Potter is definitely in. The intellectuals have
abandoned their customary seats in the ivory tower from which
they look down upon the hoi polloi to take their place in
the stands at the quidditch match. The professional sneerers,
they with the permanently curled lips, content themselves with
muttering about Rowling being a pedestrian writer and not nearly
as worthy an author of young adult fantasy as others whom they
are only to willing to name. Harry Potter is in. That seems to
settle it and yet ...
Perhaps it is time to look at the seamier side of Rowling's
engaging fantasies. These magic folk are an unsavory lot. Their
society includes integral and unremarked slavery. Hermione
Grainger recognizes this and is indignant. That she can see that
the house elves are no more than slaves can be explained by her
being of muggle parentage. She didn't have the chance to absorb
the cultural values of the magic folk. It is notable that her
abolitionism is treated as a joke by all and sundry. The social
conscience of the best of the wizards and witches is lamentable;
it goes downhill from there.
The magic folk are real ubermensch; they have talents and
abilities beyond those of ordinary human beings. One might
expect great things from them. One would be disappointed. Quite
clearly they do not use their abilities for the betterment and
welfare of humanity in general. We are told that they retreat
into their enclaves (rather like gated communities) because they
do not want to be bothered by muggles who would want them to do
useful magic.
They are not culturally productive in their hidden fastnesses.
Their games, culture, artifacts, and practices are cribbed from
the larger muggle culture - suitably modified, of course, to
reflect their peculiar abilities. In short, culturally speaking,
they are parasites. One suspects that they are economic
parasites as well, leaching off the muggle world. One would
expect them to be - they have the slaveholding mentality - but
there is not enough evidence in the extant narratives from which
to make a judgement.
Indeed the very lack of evidence tells its own tale. Nobody is
interested in where the wealth comes from. There are no
occupations except institutional roles - bureaucrats and
academics. The attitudes are those of the feudal landed
aristocracies including the emphasis on blood, i.e., ancestry
within the privileged class.
It would be unfair and incorrect to characterize Hogwarts as
being fascist - its attitudes and practices are direct
equivalents of older traditions, albeit ones no less unsavory
than those of fascism. On the other hand Voldemort will do very
well as a Hitler figure and the death eaters as fascists.
The question presents itself: Why is the magic community
susceptible to the disease of fascism? Among the muggles the
fascist movements were natural children of the earlier age of
aristocracy - racism is little more than a modernized version of
noble blood, and force applied to one's lessers was the basis for
aristocratic privilege. One recognizes in the Malfoys and
company the privileged classes, disaffected by modernism, who
flocked to the support of the Hitlers and Mussolinis.
There are differences though. The magic folk do not seem to have
a lumpen proletariat to serve as the body of the movement. (The
muggles clearly are not a substitute.) The movement seems to be
making do with the resentful old aristocracy. Seemingly with
magic that is enough. One infers, though, that the old
aristocracy has reason for resentment which implies that they are
losing power and privilege as a consequence of social forces that
they do not understand.
Where does Harry Potter fit in this? Harry clearly is a
Machiavellian lion, brave, filled with the knightly virtues,
accepting privilege without question, and not too bright. Yes,
Harry is somewhat of a boob. In book I whatever did he think he
was going to accomplish in that last desperate adventure? Did he
think that he was up to confronting Snape? (Quirrell and
Voldemort as it turned out - another error by Harry.) Indeed his
actions gave Voldemort the chance to acquire the stone - without
Harry on the scene the stone was quite safe. Harry, of course,
has something much better and much more effective than brains -
he has luck and the blessing of destiny.
In the movie (but not in the book) Voldemort tells Harry, "There
is no good and evil; there is only power and those too weak to
seek it." That addition is comic book morality and yet it is a
real truth. The magic folk exist by and live by the privilege of
power. There "good and evil" is little more than social
conventions to ensure the stability of the society that their
power-grasping parasitism has produced.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, http://www.varinoma.com
Remember: If you're going to practice cannibalism, do so responsibly.
Friends don't let friends eat friends. - Richard Clayton
--
Posted from mail.sbtc.net [137.118.129.5]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
John McCarthy
Besides all that, their Mafia, i.e. Voldemort and his minions, are a
danger of taking over the country. Muggles we may be, but in our
society, the Mafia is a minor nuisance.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
Paul Ilechko
John McCarthy wrote:
>
>
> Besides all that, their Mafia, i.e. Voldemort and his minions, are a
> danger of taking over the country. Muggles we may be, but in our
> society, the Mafia is a minor nuisance.
Does that mean you don't count Bob Barr and Tom DeLay as Mafia ?
Bloke Down The Pub
"Richard Harter" wrote:
snip
Thank you for that insightful review.
smw
Indeed. I've long wondered what the fantasy genre would be without the
nostalgia
for decent domestic help.
Arindam Banerjee
"Richard Harter" <c...@tiac.net> wrote in message
news:3c1b1414...@mail.SullyButtes.net...
>
>
>
> Harry Potter is definitely in.
He is also definitely on single bed sheet sets, sold at
Myer and other departmental stores, along with a
whole host of other commercial products.
Harry Potter will also be translated into Greek and
Latin, to increase interest in these dead languages,
according to the Herald-Sun of 4 Dec.
Arindam Banerjee.
Richard Harter
> In the movie (but not in the book) Voldemort tells Harry, "There
> is no good and evil; there is only power and those too weak to
> seek it."
Minor error: The cited line occurs in the book; however Quirrell rather
than Voldemort speaks it.
Richard Harter
Much the same, I would imagine. Few readers of fantasy have any experience
with domestic help other than their mothers. There is an ancient mot that
the golden age of science fiction is thirteen; much the same is true for
fantasy. Likewise few of the authors of genre fantasy have experience with
domestic help.
One might propose that genre fantasy reflects a yearning for a romanticized
past in which there was decent domestic help in counterpoint to undesired
realities of domestic tasks, but I think that that proposal is well off the
mark. Genre fantasy creates secondary universes in which the mundane is
erased; it is not relevant. Servants, where present, are not there because
it would be nice to have servants but because servants are part of the
costuming.
Ide Cyan
> Harry Potter is definitely in. The intellectuals have
> abandoned their customary seats in the ivory tower from which
> they look down upon the hoi polloi to take their place in
> the stands at the quidditch match.
Are you a big fan of The The?
I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post.
Ide
--
"I knew a girl at school called Pandora.
Never got to see her box, though."
- Spike, Notting Hill.
Francis Muir
Ide Cyan wrote:
>
> Richard Harter outgrabe:
> > Harry Potter is definitely in. The intellectuals have
> > abandoned their customary seats in the ivory tower from which
> > they look down upon the hoi polloi to take their place in
> ......................^^^^^^^
> > the stands at the quidditch match.
>
> Are you a big fan of The The?
Another who does not understand that logic does not rule in English.
Everyone and his dog knows that "hoi" is Greek for "the", nevertheless
custom has it to treat "hoi polloi" as just another word for "common
folk" where the addition of "the" is totally appropriate.
Michael Zeleny
Count on Fideaux to prescribe custom to hoi polloi.
--
cordially, -- Mikhail Zel...@math.ucla.edu
7576 Willow Glen Rd, Hollywood, CA 90046 323-876-8234 323-363-1860
All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter.
Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett
Lewis Mammel
Michael Zeleny wrote:
>
> Count on Fideaux to prescribe custom to hoi polloi.
Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
Yes, "hoi" means "the" in Greek, but the first 5 citations in the
OED, and the most famous use of this phrase in English (in Gilbert
and Sullivan's operetta Iolanthe), put "the" in front of "hoi".
Michael Zeleny
Another who does not understand that neither dictionaries nor logic
rule in English. Fideaux does.
Richard Harter
> Richard Harter outgrabe:
> > Harry Potter is definitely in. The intellectuals have
> > abandoned their customary seats in the ivory tower from which
> > they look down upon the hoi polloi to take their place in
> ......................^^^^^^^
> > the stands at the quidditch match.
>
> Are you a big fan of The The?
Would that be the rock group by that name? No, I am not;
their attempts to combine Gregorian chants and heavy metal
are at best interesting failures. If, however, you are
referring to Andre The The, I must admit to admiring his
"Small fictions for small minds."
> I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post.
Oh, please do. We have so much to learn from you.
Francis Muir
Michael Zeleny wrote:
>
> Lewis Mammel <l.ma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Michael Zeleny wrote:
>
> >> Count on Fideaux to prescribe custom to hoi polloi.
>
> >Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
> >
> > Yes, "hoi" means "the" in Greek, but the first 5 citations in the
> >OED, and the most famous use of this phrase in English (in Gilbert
> >and Sullivan's operetta Iolanthe), put "the" in front of "hoi".
>
> Another who does not understand that neither dictionaries nor logic
> rule in English. Fideaux does.
And don't you bloody well forget it.
Feedo, Fido, Fodo, Fumbo. I smell the blood of an English mumbo.
Ide Cyan
> Another who does not understand that logic does not rule in English.
> Everyone and his dog knows that "hoi" is Greek for "the", nevertheless
> custom has it to treat "hoi polloi" as just another word for "common
> folk" where the addition of "the" is totally appropriate.
You've never heard of Matt Johnson's band?
E. coli
Kermit's French I believe.
But isn't it pronounced "hee" and not "hoy"? Even the ancient Greeks didn't
pronounce it "hoy", despite Hanson and Heath's complaint (re: _Who Killed
Homer_) that modern Greeks insist on pronouncing all vowels like "ee". (It just
seems like "all vowels" to them.) The Athenian pronunciation may have been
something like "hwee", or approximately the English word "whee". But in Greece,
one quickly learns that the natives don't like being told how to pronounce their
own language by foreigners, and understandably so.
jimC
Michael S. Morris
Tuesday, the 18th of December, 2001
Jim Collier:
But isn't it pronounced "hee" and not "hoy"?
I don't know. But, what is clear is that modern Greek
is different than ancient, and there are excellent
arguments to be had around the reasons for and against
the "received" pronunciation of ancient Greek (Attic,
say). Such arguments would entrain ancient sources on
rhetoric, including some which discuss letters and
the pronunciation thereof, transliterations of Greek
words into Latin, as well as Latin and Sanskrit words
derived from a common root in Indo-European. Personally,
the British pronunciation works just fine (with perhaps
the modern emendation of zeta as an "sd")---it has the
merit of clear correspondence between the written
and spoken forms. I.e., I'll stick with "hoy".
Mike Morris
(msmo...@netdirect.net)
j...@radidelmex.net
> Another who does not understand that logic does not rule in English.
> Everyone and his dog knows that "hoi" is Greek for "the", nevertheless
> custom has it to treat "hoi polloi" as just another word for "common
> folk" where the addition of "the" is totally appropriate.
Gilbert & Sullivan "Iolanthe"
PEERS. Distinction ebbs
Before a herd
Of vulgar plebs!
FAIRIES. (A Latin word.)
PEERS. 'Twould fill with joy,
And madness stark
The hoi polloi!
FAIRIES. (A Greek remark.)
Paul Ilechko
Ide Cyan wrote:
> You've never heard of Matt Johnson's band?
As he hasn't made a good album in almost 20 years, who cares ?
tejas
"Paul Ilechko" <pile...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3C1FB18D...@att.net...
>
>
> Ide Cyan wrote:
>
> > You've never heard of Matt Johnson's band?
>
> As he hasn't made a good album in almost 20 years, who cares ?
Now this is wonderfully Brit-cryptic. Where's Nick Hornby when you need 'im?
ObNothing: The Kinks covers CD
ObSomething: EASTER EVERYWHERE by The 13th Floor Elevators
ObBook: _At The Bottom Of The Garden: A Dark History Of
Fairies, Hobgoblins, and Other Troublesome Things
by Diane Purkiss
--
Ted Samsel
tbsa...@infi.net
http://home.infi.net/~tbsamsel
Michael Zeleny
>>>Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
English mumbo indeed. Google counts 2,980 hits for "muir oxford".
Stateside, the correlative tradition calls for politely answering
all postgraduate identity queries with "a small college back East".
Laura F Spira
>
> Francis Muir <fra...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> >Michael Zeleny wrote:
> >>Lewis Mammel <l.ma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>Michael Zeleny wrote:
>
> >>>>Count on Fideaux to prescribe custom to hoi polloi.
>
> >>>Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
>
> >>> Yes, "hoi" means "the" in Greek, but the first 5 citations in the
> >>>OED, and the most famous use of this phrase in English (in Gilbert
> >>>and Sullivan's operetta Iolanthe), put "the" in front of "hoi".
>
> >>Another who does not understand that neither dictionaries nor logic
> >>rule in English. Fideaux does.
>
> >And don't you bloody well forget it.
> >
> >Feedo, Fido, Fodo, Fumbo. I smell the blood of an English mumbo.
>
> English mumbo indeed. Google counts 2,980 hits for "muir oxford".
>
>
carries any authority. But I only get 90 Google hits for "muir oxford".
None of them relate to Francis, as far as I can see. I must be missing
the point.
ObBook: The Tyranny of Numbers by David Boyle
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Michael Zeleny
>>>>>Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
Did you try Google Groups?
>ObBook: The Tyranny of Numbers by David Boyle
ObNumbers: Innumeracy
Laura F Spira
>
> Laura F Spira <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
> >Michael Zeleny wrote:
> >>Francis Muir <fra...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> >>>Michael Zeleny wrote:
> >>>>Lewis Mammel <l.ma...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>Michael Zeleny wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Count on Fideaux to prescribe custom to hoi polloi.
>
> >>>>>Cf. http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxthethe.html :
>
> >>>>> Yes, "hoi" means "the" in Greek, but the first 5 citations in the
> >>>>>OED, and the most famous use of this phrase in English (in Gilbert
> >>>>>and Sullivan's operetta Iolanthe), put "the" in front of "hoi".
>
> >>>>Another who does not understand that neither dictionaries nor logic
> >>>>rule in English. Fideaux does.
>
> >>>And don't you bloody well forget it.
> >>>
> >>>Feedo, Fido, Fodo, Fumbo. I smell the blood of an English mumbo.
>
> >>English mumbo indeed. Google counts 2,980 hits for "muir oxford".
>
> >I'm always interested when posters refer to Google hits as if the number
> >carries any authority. But I only get 90 Google hits for "muir oxford".
> >None of them relate to Francis, as far as I can see. I must be missing
> >the point.
>
> Did you try Google Groups?
Yes, that throws up 5. Being a precise sort of person, I was searching
for "muir oxford", not muir oxford. francis muir oxford gives 1,460 but
even those include some irrelevancies
(if that matters to whatever point you were making.)
Paul Ilechko
tejas wrote:
> "Paul Ilechko" <pile...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:3C1FB18D...@att.net...
> >
> >
> > Ide Cyan wrote:
> >
> > > You've never heard of Matt Johnson's band?
> >
> > As he hasn't made a good album in almost 20 years, who cares ?
>
> Now this is wonderfully Brit-cryptic. Where's Nick Hornby when you need 'im?
Matt Johnson, sole proprieter of 80's band "The The". Had two very good songs,
Uncertain Smile and Perfect, on the halfway decent album Soul Mining, then spent
years churning out worse and worse tripe. Actually with the original vinyl
album, Perfect was on a bonus EP. Who needs Nick Hornby?
Paul Ilechko
Richard Harter wrote:
>
> > Are you a big fan of The The?
>
> Would that be the rock group by that name? No, I am not;
> their attempts to combine Gregorian chants and heavy metal
> are at best interesting failures.
That would be the Electric Prunes you're thinking of.
j...@radidelmex.net
> Much the same, I would imagine. Few readers of fantasy have any experience
> with domestic help other than their mothers.
Do families in the South still have cooks? My grandfather had one, but that
was before civil rights.
Matt Silberstein
<sm...@umich.edu>:
Much poorer as we would lack _The Charwoman's Shadow_ by Lord Dunsany.
--
Matt Silberstein TBC HRL OMM LotL
There is safety in numbers and people and things
And big wads of money and great big diamond rings
J.O.
Richard Harter
I dunno. A friend-of-mine's family had a cook in the 60's. That was in
Philadelphia. I suppose there are still people that keep servants, but I
don't know any people like that. I suppose nowadays servant-keepers are
mostly Californians stocking their houses with illegal Mexicans.
j...@radidelmex.net
> I dunno. A friend-of-mine's family had a cook in the 60's. That was in
> Philadelphia. I suppose there are still people that keep servants, but I
> don't know any people like that. I suppose nowadays servant-keepers are
> mostly Californians stocking their houses with illegal Mexicans.
Servants don't seem to have last names. Jeeves ... My grandad's cook was
named Hattie. In the "Optimist's Daughter" the maid was Missouri. Then
there's Florida in "Good Times". Can't remember the name of the chauffeur
in "Driving Miss Daisy".
Richard Harter
I have the impression that there are social distinctions to account for.
Servants addressed by last name have more status than those addressed by
first name. Aren't butlers usually addressed by last name, e.g., Hudson
in "Upstairs, downstairs". Miss Marple always addressed her domestic help
by their first names; since they came from the local orphanage they might
not have properly had last names, of course. Poirot's valet is always
addressed by first name (does he have a last name?) In Georgette Heyer's
novels, mushrooms pushing up into the gentility are perplexed by the
question of how to treat servants. Those raised with a tradition of family
servants know how to treat them familiarly and yet keep them in their place.
It is (or was) apparently a delicate balancing act.
David J. Loftus
Paul Ilechko
to be indoor help ?
smw
Richard Harter wrote:
> smw <sm...@umich.edu> wrote in message news:<3C1BE526...@umich.edu>...
> > Bloke Down The Pub wrote:
> >
> > > "Richard Harter" wrote:
> > > snip
> > >
> > > Thank you for that insightful review.
> >
> > Indeed. I've long wondered what the fantasy genre would be without the
> > nostalgia for decent domestic help.
>
> Much the same, I would imagine. Few readers of fantasy have any experience
> with domestic help other than their mothers.
Nostalgia is the desire for a past that never was, dear. Surely, the genre is
permeated by fantasies of a lower class that does the dishes and happily so.
Rowling, bless her, sends this up brilliantly.
s
Robert St. Amant
> Richard Harter <c...@tiac.net> wrote:
>
> > I dunno. A friend-of-mine's family had a cook in the 60's. That was in
> > Philadelphia. I suppose there are still people that keep servants, but I
> > don't know any people like that. I suppose nowadays servant-keepers are
> > mostly Californians stocking their houses with illegal Mexicans.
>
> Servants don't seem to have last names. Jeeves ...
If I recall correctly, Bertie Wooster's gentleman's gentleman's full
name was Reginald Jeeves.
--
Rob St. Amant
ArtflDodgr
> Richard Harter wrote:
>
> > smw <sm...@umich.edu> wrote in message news:<3C1BE526...@umich.edu>...
> > > Bloke Down The Pub wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Richard Harter" wrote:
> > > > snip
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for that insightful review.
> > >
> > > Indeed. I've long wondered what the fantasy genre would be without the
> > > nostalgia for decent domestic help.
> >
> > Much the same, I would imagine. Few readers of fantasy have any experience
> > with domestic help other than their mothers.
>
> Nostalgia is the desire for a past that never was, dear.
No it isn't.
--
A.
Larisa
> "Richard Harter" <c...@tiac.net> wrote in message
> news:3c1b1414...@mail.SullyButtes.net...
> >
> >
> >
> > Harry Potter is definitely in.
>
> Myer and other departmental stores, along with a
> whole host of other commercial products.
>
> Harry Potter will also be translated into Greek and
> Latin, to increase interest in these dead languages,
> according to the Herald-Sun of 4 Dec.
But not Sanskrit? Ah well. It's not really a dead language, I guess.
LM
ObBook: Hebrew translation of Harry Potter
Arindam Banerjee
Sanskrits don't die, they just become out of date.
Arindam Banerjee.
Stephen Hayes
Paul Ilechko wrote in a message to All:
PI> From: Paul Ilechko <pile...@att.net>
PI> Richard Harter wrote:
> > Are you a big fan of The The?
>
> Would that be the rock group by that name? No, I am not;
> their attempts to combine Gregorian chants and heavy metal
> are at best interesting failures.
PI> That would be the Electric Prunes you're thinking of.
I rather liked the Electric Prunes, still do, in fact.
Keep well
Steve Hayes
WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
E-mail: haye...@yahoo.com
FamilyNet <> Internet Gated Mail
http://www.fmlynet.org
j del col
> Ide Cyan wrote:
> >
> > Richard Harter outgrabe:
> > > Harry Potter is definitely in. The intellectuals have
> > > abandoned their customary seats in the ivory tower from which
> > > they look down upon the hoi polloi to take their place in
> ......................^^^^^^^
> > > the stands at the quidditch match.
> >
> > Are you a big fan of The The?
>
> Everyone and his dog knows that "hoi" is Greek for "the", nevertheless
> custom has it to treat "hoi polloi" as just another word for "common
> folk" where the addition of "the" is totally appropriate.
Far more distressing is the common belief that "hoi polloi" refers
to an elite. The --Charleston Gazette--, the only rag in
WV that can sometimes be a decent newspaper, once ran an article
about overpriced japanese pond carp under the headline "Koi Polloi."
I wrote them a letter suggesting that if they really wanted the
"hoi polloi" of carp, they should try using doughballs
and chicken livers in the Kanawha River.
J. Del Col
Francis Muir
Distressing indeed. The expression is sufficiently common in England -
perhaps largely thanks to Schwenk - that everyone - including those
designated know that it refers to the Common Folk; the Man on the
Clapham Bus, &c., &c.
Stephen Hayes
Francis Muir wrote in a message to All:
FM> From: Francis Muir <Fra...@stanford.edu>
> Are you a big fan of The The?
FM>
FM> Another who does not understand that logic does not rule in
FM> English. Everyone and his dog knows that "hoi" is Greek for "the",
FM> nevertheless custom has it to treat "hoi polloi" as just another
FM> word for "common folk" where the addition of "the" is totally
FM> appropriate.
Other examples of this are "ATM machine" and "PIN number". Pedants may object
that they are illogical, but, as you say, logic does not rule in English and
the hoi polloi continue to say them.