bahai leaders preach tacit anti-Americanism to flock (pusallanimity of Baha'i administration)
Freethought110
fyi
From: Juan Cole jrcole@u....
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:28 am
Subject: pusallanimity of Baha'i administration
I have seen a directive from the US NSA instructing Baha'is not to say the
"prayer for America" publicly in response to the horrid assault on our
country of September 11. Apparently this instruction derives from a fear
that Baha'is will be seen as pro-American, which in turn might endanger
Baha'is living in Muslim countries.
I will try to restrain myself from a Dennis Miller rant on this subject,
but this message is the height of yellow-bellied cowardice, rank
ingratitude, and unpatriotic near-treason. The prayer for America was
revealed to celebrate its commitment to human liberty, that same liberty
that was the target of the terrorists on Black Tuesday. It was revealed to
be read *precisely* in such moments as these.
The United States Congress and State Department have been *indefatigable*,
moreover, in defending the Baha'is of Iran when they were attacked by the
Ayatollahs. Please note that they did not quake in their booties that
maybe taking up such unpopular causes as the Baha'is might endanger the
lives of Americans in the Middle East (though, that was obviously a
possibility). Americans put themselves on the line for the Baha'is. But
now that we Americans need all the allies we can get, what is the response
of the Baha'i administration? "Sorry, folks, you're on your own. We won't
risk anything for you, the way you risked for us."
Moreover, this pretext of the poor Baha'is in Muslim countries that keeps
being trotted out to justify whatever weird policies get into Ali
Nakhjavani's head is rather thin. Uh, get a clue guys. Baha'is are not
welcome in Muslim countries *already*. You might have noticed that 200
were killed in Iran in the past 20 years and they have been banned in
Egypt, Libya, Indonesia, etc., etc. They are viewed as dangerous heretics
attempting to undermine the Muslim religion. So, that they object to 6000
innocent civilians being butchered and vaporized is a little unlikely to
matter much one way or another to their Muslim critics! But if they
*don't* object to it, and publicly, then they have acquiesced in
barbarism. Yet, when *they* were being killed in Iran, they ran around
insisting that the European Union and the US Congress and everyone else
under the sun stridently denounce the ayatollahs!
I am sickened by this level of hypocrisy and selfishness on the part of the
more cult-like elements in our religion, which have so inexplicably grabbed
the reins of power. And, I have an even more unsettling suspicion that
some of the more extreme cultists among them, the Ian Semples, Farzam
Arbabs, Peter Khans, Doug Martins--are secretly joyous that the United
States, bastion of evil Western liberal values such as freedom of speech
and "immature" separation of religion and state, has been humiliated and
weakened. That is, I suspect that in the Baha'i Far Right the response to
all this has been somewhat similar to that of the Taliban themselves. And
that is the real reason they don't want Baha'is reading the prayer for
America. They despise America, unlike the Baha'i Holy Figures who praised
it and held it up as an exemplar.
cheers Juan Cole
Roger Reini
Freethought110 wrote:
>
> fyi
>
> From: Juan Cole jrcole@u....
> Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:28 am
> Subject: pusallanimity of Baha'i administration
>
> I have seen a directive from the US NSA instructing Baha'is not to say the
> "prayer for America" publicly in response to the horrid assault on our
> country of September 11. Apparently this instruction derives from a fear
> that Baha'is will be seen as pro-American, which in turn might endanger
> Baha'is living in Muslim countries.
I am aware of no such instructions from the US National Spiritual
Assembly. I see no such instructions on the US Baha'i administrative
Website. I call on Mr. Cole to produce the statement, if it exists.
Roger (ro...@rreini.com)
Dermod Ryder
"Roger Reini" <ro...@rreini.com> wrote in message
news:3BD23B6D...@rreini.com...
So you're back then! How long do have we to put up with you this time
before you take a wee sulking fit and bugger off again!
Interesting letter from the NSA - is it not?
I don't think you're in the loop to receive this letter, Roger. In the
scheme of things you're not that important.
This seems to be one of those items which is prepared for a select circle
who shall then instruct the great unwashed in compliance with its aims.
Looks as if one of that circle has had an attack of conscience and "leaked"
it to Dr. Cole. I must check with my own sources - for my own edification
and not to be shared with the likes of you.
Dermod.
Freethought110
"Roger Reini" <ro...@rreini.com> wrote in message
news:3BD23B6D...@rreini.com...
> I am aware of no such instructions from the US National Spiritual
> Assembly. I see no such instructions on the US Baha'i administrative
> Website. I call on Mr. Cole to produce the statement, if it exists.
>
> Roger (ro...@rreini.com)
Let the denials begin...
--
Freethought110
Roger Reini
Of course I'll deny it, for I have no evidence that it is true. It is
reasonable for me to believe that such instructions would be conveyed to
the general Baha'i community via the adminstrative Website. Other
instructions relating to the events of September 11 have been put on the
site for rapid dissemination to the friends.
As of yesterday evening, I have seen no instructions to the friends to
refrain from reciting the Prayer for America in a public gathering. If
you claim that such instructions exist, then produce them.
Roger (ro...@rreini.com)
>
> --
> Freethought110
Graham Sorenson
"Freethought110" <freetho...@bohemian.org> wrote in message
news:9quep7$kj6$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
You made the allegations so please provide the proof for your allegations.
This is all I ask. I too have seen nothing in all of the Baha'i mailing
lists or any official site.. (Or any other site for that matter).
So.. cough up the proofs or retract your allegations.
Matt Menge
If Dr. Cole wants to prove something, why doesn't he give us something
more solid? What's the point of arguing about something that may not
even exist? And even if it did exist, the details would be pretty
important, don't you think?
These attempts to monopolize information are pretty common among
liberals, and I don't like it one bit. What do they have to hide?
Regards,
Matt
Dermod Ryder
"Dermod Ryder" <Grim_Re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9qu9bi$pqr3i$1...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de...
Well lads,
Further to what I said earlier, I hear distinct rumblings that it's out
there and genuine!
Be patient!
Pat Kohli
to work.
B. I've heard "God Bless America" sung by a lot of folks who are too
chicken to fly.
Therefore: C: I'm overdosed on cowardly shows of patriotism.
Oh, BTW, I'm not referring to you personally in this matter, Nima, since as
far as I know, you are not an American.
Freethought110 wrote:
> "Roger Reini" <ro...@rreini.com> wrote in message
> news:3BD23B6D...@rreini.com...
>
> > I am aware of no such instructions from the US National Spiritual
> > Assembly. I see no such instructions on the US Baha'i administrative
> > Website. I call on Mr. Cole to produce the statement, if it exists.
Obviously, if someone is preaching to you Roger, you should have gotten
word by now, despite Dermod's denial that you would get it
>
> Let the denials begin...
Dermod's was first. You are too late.
Pat Kohli
Graham Sorenson wrote:
> "Freethought110" <freetho...@bohemian.org> wrote in message
> news:9quep7$kj6$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
>
> >
> > Let the denials begin...
>
> You made the allegations so please provide the proof for your allegations.
> This is all I ask. I too have seen nothing in all of the Baha'i mailing
> lists or any official site.. (Or any other site for that matter).
>
> So.. cough up the proofs or retract your allegations.
Actually, Nima did not make the allegation; Juan Cole did. Nima is simply
passing it along.
Folks in the US have been acting strangely over the past several weeks. I
really would not be surprised if this thing is for real. Things will get
sorted out, though.
Blessings!
- Pat
ko...@ameritel.net
Randy Burns
in Australia. Have no further information, so it is possible that the
instruction is only for Baha'is in other countries. If it hasn't been
issued to Baha'is in the U.S. then perhaps it is not applicable here. Maybe
the Aussie NSA is the only one to issue this?
Randy
--
Roger Reini <ro...@rreini.com> wrote in message
news:3BD23B6D...@rreini.com...
BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship
"Freethought110" <freetho...@bohemian.org> wrote in message
news:9qt2to$1uh$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
Dave Fiorito
Sounds like you might be barking at shadows.
Cheers,
Dave
Pat Kohli
Randy Burns wrote:
> Someone mentioned that the Australian NSA sent this news to the U.S. Embassy
> in Australia. Have no further information, so it is possible that the
> instruction is only for Baha'is in other countries. If it hasn't been
> issued to Baha'is in the U.S. then perhaps it is not applicable here. Maybe
> the Aussie NSA is the only one to issue this?
>
> Randy
When you refer to "this news" is that this rumor that the US NSA is directing
American Baha'is _not_ to publically recite a given prayer?
I'm unclear as to what you are saying here.
Blessings!
- Pat
ko...@ameritel.net
Pat Kohli
Matt Menge wrote:
> ...These attempts to monopolize information are pretty common among
> liberals ...
"Liberals"? It looks to me like someone is trying to start a rumor. I am appalled that you suggest that this is
somehow "liberal". Folks in the US have been upset, and apparently this has effected Dr. Cole. It certainly
doesn't make him a liberal in some respect or another.
Folks at work try to send me e-mail on anthrax, even the company security manager. I tried to explain to her
that she is stirring up hysteria while the country is trying to fight a war on terrorism - she should choose our
side, not theirs. She insisted that she is just doing her job. Matt, I think there is just a lot of silliness,
not liberalism, at work here.
Blessings!
- Pat
ko...@ameritel.net
Randy Burns
is a rumor going around the community, i.e. that Baha'is are not supposed to
say the Prayer for America (presumably in public) because it would make us
look pro-American. But if there is no official news, then there is only
rumor. Unless of course this was sent from the UHJ to NSA's. When they do
that they often add that it is up to each NSA to pass this news along as
they see fit and perhaps the NSA's are not seeing fit to pass this along.
Let me emphasize that I personally have no hard facts on this at all, so I
can't help clear it up. I can help obfuscate, of course, and I am pleased
to do so! You can help obfuscate too, thanks.
Cheers, Randy
--
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:3BD4BD89...@ameritel.net...
> Allahu Abha!
Pat Kohli
to beat my fist on the table top and demand "Evidence! Show me the evidence!"
With the anthrax scare, mail is delayed. We did not get our feast letter for
Ilm (last week) until today and it was postmarked 4 October. There was no
direction not to recite any prayers in that leeter, so I am increasingly
suspicious.
When nothing materializes, Juan will pat himself on the back for goading the NSA
to its senses, or something. Pusallanimity ... give me a break!
As you know, I think folks are restless, and I suspect that this thing is really
a premature discharge over a rumor.
Blessings!
- Pat
ko...@ameritel.net
Freethought110
Posted on NSA site 14/9/01
"To Public Information Representatives, Local Spiritual Assemblies, and
Individual Bahá'ís:
All of us have been deeply affected by the tragic events in Washington DC,
Pennsylvania, and New York. Without question, many Bahá'ís will yearn to
make some response to demonstrate their wish that Bahá'u'lláh's healing
message might reach every corner of this nation. In the words of the
National Spiritual Assembly in its message to the American Bahá'í community,
"The Bahá'í spirit of universal love and assistance are more urgently needed
now than ever before." What is needed now is for us to act as true Bahá'ís,
as true servants to humankind.
The Office of External Affairs has received requests for guidance on such
matters as whether it is appropriate to submit prayers to their local
newspapers, the appropriateness of writing letters to the editor in response
to these tragic events and other similar inquiries.
We take this opportunity to remind the friends of the policy of the National
Spiritual Assembly on writing articles to local newspapers:
* Individual Bahá'ís must first seek the approval of the local Spiritual
Assembly before submission to the newspaper if the person is writing as a
Bahá'í.
* Bahá'ís are free to write letters to the editors of publications to
express their personal views if they do not identify themselves as Bahá'ís,
imply that they represent the Faith or a Bahá'í community, or discuss the
Bahá'í Faith.
* Individuals or local Spiritual Assemblies wishing to submit articles to
national publications must first seek the approval of the Office of External
Affairs.
* If individuals are uncertain about the relationship of their letters to
the interest of the Faith, they should consult with their local Spiritual
Assembly.
* Any local Spiritual Assembly that wishes to contact local government
officials including for the purpose of presenting Bahá'í materials should
first consult with the Office of External Affairs.
Because of the politically sensitive nature of these recent tragic events,
we ask that local Spiritual Assemblies consult with the Office of External
Affairs before submitting anything to a local newspaper. The Office of
External Affairs can be reached by phone at (202) 833-8990 or e-mail at
usns...@usbnc.org. Please note that the Office of Public Information in
New York City is currently experiencing difficulty in receiving telephone
and e-mail communications.
General guidelines for appropriate tone of communications to the media:
Any Bahá'í-connected message to the public should try to elevate the
response to the attacks to a higher, more spiritual level that is above
hatred and recrimination, above any mention whatsoever of government
actions, assignment of blame, and above the attempt to use this tragedy as
an opportunity to advance our own interests. It would also not be
appropriate to cite apocalyptic references from the Bahá'í writings or to
submit prayers which contain language that could seem threatening to
non-Bahá'ís.
We welcome you to contact the Office of External Affairs anytime with your
questions.
Loving Bahá'í greetings,
Office of External Affairs
OFFICE OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
1320 19th Street NW, Suite 701
Washington, DC 20036-1610
Phone: 202-833-8990
Fax: 202-833-8988
__________________
"Prayers for America"
"This [Cleveland, Ohio] is a beautiful city; the climate is
pleasant; the views are charming. All the cities of America seem to be
large and beautiful, and the people appear prosperous. The American
continent gives signs and evidences of very great advancement; its future
is even more promising, for its influence and illumination are
far-reaching, and it will lead all nations spiritually. The flag of
freedom and banner of liberty have been unfurled here, but the prosperity
and advancement of a city, the happiness and greatness of a country
depend upon its hearing and obeying the call of God. The light of
reality must shine therein and divine civilization be founded; then the
radiance of the Kingdom will be diffused and heavenly influences
surround." (`Abdu'l-Baha: Promulgation of Universal Peace, Page:104)
"Ya-Baha'u'l-Abha! Abdu'l-Baha did not rest a moment until He had
raised Thy Cause and the Standard of the Kingdom of Abha waved over the
world. Now some people have arisen with intrigues and evil aspirations
to trample this flag in America, but My hope is in Thy confirmations.
Leave Me not single, alone and oppressed! As Thou didst promise,
verbally and in writing, that Thou wouldst protect this deer of the
pasture of Thy love from the attacks of the hounds of hatred and
animosity, and that Thou wouldst safeguard this persecuted sheep from the
claws and teeth of the ferocious wolves, - now do I await the appearance
of Thy bounties and the realization of Thy definite promise. Thou art
the true Protector, and Thou art the Lord of the Covenant! Therefore,
protect this Lamp which Thou hast lighted, from the severe winds."
(`Abdu'l-Baha: Baha'i World Faith, Page: 433)
--
Freethought110
"Pat Kohli" <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:3BD4C30C...@ameritel.net...
BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing
> some of the more extreme cultists among them, the Ian Semples, Farzam
> Arbabs, Peter Khans, Doug Martins--are secretly joyous that the United
> States, bastion of evil Western liberal values such as freedom of speech
> and "immature" separation of religion and state, has been humiliated and
> weakened. That is, I suspect that in the Baha'i Far Right the response to
> all this has been somewhat similar to that of the Taliban themselves.
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship
Freethought110
--
Freethought110
"Roger Reini" <ro...@rreini.com> wrote in message
news:3BD2D8CC...@rreini.com...
BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing
of the Wronged One has come to this sorry state of affairs
at the hands of the Taliban in Wilmette, Illinois and Haifa, Israel....
More control, deceit, suppression, and coercion, just what
Baha'u'llah proclaimed....
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship
"Freethought110" <freetho...@bohemian.org> wrote in message
news:9r2hm0$isv$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
Ron House
>
> Someone mentioned that the Australian NSA sent this news to the U.S. Embassy
> in Australia. Have no further information, so it is possible that the
> instruction is only for Baha'is in other countries. If it hasn't been
> issued to Baha'is in the U.S. then perhaps it is not applicable here. Maybe
> the Aussie NSA is the only one to issue this?
I mentioned the Aus NSA on Talisman. I sighted their letter, which was
only a short paragraph followed by the prayer. I am not getting the
Bulletin at present owing to a major foulup in the NSA computer system,
but I might have seen it at someone else's place in their copy. I'll
chase it up.
--
Ron House ho...@usq.edu.au
http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/house
Roger Reini
Website. However, it does not explicitly forbid the recitation of the
Prayer for America in public. That is an inference that someone has
made, an inference that is not justified by the text.
Roger (ro...@rreini.com)
Dave Fiorito
reference to it at all. All I see is advice on using media outlets
during this crisis.
I think you are barking at shadows.
Cheers,
Dave
Dave Fiorito
> Juan Cole wrote:
yada yada yada ...
Sorry bud, but there is no ban on the public recitation of the Prayer for America.
Nima Hazini
that would also include the prayer for America. Duh!
cheers,
Nima
"Dave Fiorito" <bighapp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0853486.01102...@posting.google.com...
Randy Burns
Are you saying that the Baha'i Faith has not officially commented on the WTC
attacks? It seems to me that most other organizations have. What was the
statement issued, did it fall short of condemning the attacks?
Randy
--
Nima Hazini <lotu...@wxc.com.au> wrote in message
news:9r4t4k$ml8$1...@gnamma.connect.com.au...
> If Baha'is are prohibited from making *any* public statements about 9-11,
> that would also include the prayer for America. Duh!
>
> cheers,
> Nima
>
> "Dave Fiorito" <bighapp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:f0853486.01102...@posting.google.com...
>
BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing
> made, an inference that is not justified by the text.
Pat Kohli
Wow, so do you now deny there is "a directive from the US NSA instructing
Baha'is not to say the "prayer for America" publicly in response to the horrid
assault on our country of September 11." Instead, do you agree that Juan's
message was an "attempt to use this tragedy as an opportunity to advance"
someone's personal interests?
Hey, if you are going to flip flop, I'll give you points for minimal prodding.
I thought this would go on for two weeks, or more.
Thanks for the clarification. Feel free to forward to Talisman, or wherever the
source was where you got the root message of this thread.
Khoda Negahdar!
- Pat
ko...@ameritel.net
Nima Hazini
Henderson unequivocally condemning it. So this new policy statement makes no
sense whatsoever. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is *not* coming from
the US nsa.
cheers,
Nima
"Randy Burns" <randy....@gte.net> wrote in message
news:6wnB7.267$Iv.7...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
Pat Kohli
as an opportunity to advance"
Pat Kohli
"If"? No need for "If". You pasted the letter in! I can read it to you,
now!
XA: "The Bahá'í spirit of universal love and assistance are more urgently
needed
now than ever before." What is needed now is for us to act as true Bahá'ís,
as true servants to humankind."
XA: "Any Bahá'í-connected message to the public should try to elevate the
response to the attacks to a higher, more spiritual level that is above
hatred and recrimination, above any mention whatsoever of government
actions, assignment of blame, and above the attempt to use this tragedy as
an opportunity to advance our own interests."
1) It is from the office of External Affairs, not the NSA. Does your source
not know the difference, or do they insist that they are identical?
2) The letter calls for the friends to act even more as the true servants of
mankind, and not use the tragedy to advance our own interests. Which of
these two would you like to misconstrue as a prohibition on *making* *any*
*public* *statement*?
3) One of the Baha'is in the northern part of the county was invited to read
a prayer at a masjid in the next county. *Nobody* coached him on what to
read. I find it really disgusting that you and your pals choose this
opportunity to foist off these exaggerations at this time.
4) N*a*k*e*d B*a*h*a*'*i w*o*m*e*n! Get off it, or get in line with the far
fringe of blatantly ludicrous disinformation.
Nima Hazini wrote:
> If Baha'is are prohibited from making *any* public statements about 9-11,
> that would also include the prayer for America. Duh!
>
> cheers,
> Nima
Juan farted and Nima parroted:
>>>> JC: I have seen a directive from the US NSA instructing Baha'is not to
say the
>>>> JC: "prayer for America" publicly in response to the horrid assault on
our
>>>> JC: country of September 11.
Pat Kohli
Nima Hazini wrote:
> I posted something here some 4 weeks ago. A statement on 9-11 by Bob
> Henderson unequivocally condemning it. So this new policy statement makes no
> sense whatsoever. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is *not* coming from
> the US nsa.
Oooops! I've made some rather unkind comments on the impression that you were
presenting the External Affairs memo as the directive from the NSA that Juan
claims to have seen. My bad. Still, I am not sure if you are coming or going
on this one, yet.
Pat Kohli
gone off a bit prematurely.
Pat Kohli wrote:(my bad)
Dermod Ryder
> The letter is authentic and is available on the US administrative
> Website. However, it does not explicitly forbid the recitation of the
> Prayer for America in public. That is an inference that someone has
> made, an inference that is not justified by the text.
So be a good lad and write to the OEA asking if you can publish the Prayer
for America in your local rag and trot down to City Hall and recite it in
public before the teeming masses. Let's know the result of your enquiry!
Dermod.
PS I thought you had left here for good! Shurely shome mishtake!
Dave Fiorito
> that would also include the prayer for America. Duh!
Nima,
The instructions are for the use of the media. The Baha'is have
people that specifically work with the media to make those kinds of
public statements. If I go to a public memorial I can say the Prayer
for America a dozen times if I want.
Those instructions are just about the use of the media - that's all.
Cheers,
Dave
Frederick Glaysher
Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
Frederick Glaysher
Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message:
Frederick Glaysher
Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
Frederick Glaysher
> Sorry. I have not heard of this, nor have I seen any such statement.
Dave Fiorito
> bighapp...@yahoo.com (Dave Fiorito) wrote in message news:<f0853486.01102...@posting.google.com>...
> > So, Fred - where exactly does that letter ban the prayer. I see no
> > reference to it at all. All I see is advice on using media outlets
> > during this crisis.
> >
> > I think you are barking at shadows.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dave
>
> Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
That is all fine and good Fred but it does not address my question.
Sheesh
Frederick Glaysher
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
>
>
> That is all fine and good Fred but it does not address my question.
>
> Sheesh
Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
Frederick Glaysher
Dave Fiorito
right - there is no ban on the Prayer for America. Thank you for your
silent affirmation.
Cheers,
Dave
Frederick Glaysher
Dave Fiorito
Frederick Glaysher
> Yup, complete avoidence. Could not have expected more.
Want to understand bahai fundamentalism? Read this message: