[EE]: USB options for a hobbyist
wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman
have found the philips PDIUSBD11 ($3.05 at arrow). Anything cheaper? Is the
USB-PIC available yet? Is a price set for it?
Wouter van Ooijen
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler for PIC uC's: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal
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Andrew Warren
> What are the currently available options for a PIC hobbyist to go
> USB?
Wouter:
WARNING! I'm not totally unbiased, as I work for Cypress
Semiconductor, the leading manufacturer of USB microprocessors.
The only USB-capable PIC in production is low-speed only, and it
costs more than comparable chips from other vendors.
> I have found the philips PDIUSBD11 ($3.05 at arrow).
Yuck.
> Anything cheaper?
You might want to look at Cypress's USB micros; we have a full
line, from the low-speed chips that are used in
Microsoft/Logitech/Apple mice all the way up to high-speed (480
Mbit/sec) USB micros.
The low-speed micros are REALLY cheap, and they need no external
oscillator, reset circuit, etc.
> Is the USB-PIC available yet? Is a price set for it?
The full-speed (12 Mbit/sec) PIC? No, not available yet.
-Andy
=== Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.Cut.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
Chetan Bhargava
I have done a small research on Cypress USB devices and found that they are
only available in OTP (not even window cerdip). People at Cypress suggested
me to buy a development kit and that is too expensive for a hobbyist. I
would say that even the PIC is low speed, but good for a hobbyist. USB PIC
is available in window cerdip and soon be available with flash ! :)
Thanks.
Chetan Bhargava
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Warren" <a...@CYPRESS.RemoveThis.COM>
To: <PIC...@MITVMA.Fight.Spam.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: USB options for a hobbyist
> wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman <PIC...@mitvma.NoThiS.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > What are the currently available options for a PIC hobbyist to go
> > USB?
>
> Wouter:
>
> WARNING! I'm not totally unbiased, as I work for Cypress
> Semiconductor, the leading manufacturer of USB microprocessors.
>
> The only USB-capable PIC in production is low-speed only, and it
> costs more than comparable chips from other vendors.
>
> > I have found the philips PDIUSBD11 ($3.05 at arrow).
>
> Yuck.
>
> > Anything cheaper?
>
> You might want to look at Cypress's USB micros; we have a full
> line, from the low-speed chips that are used in
> Microsoft/Logitech/Apple mice all the way up to high-speed (480
> Mbit/sec) USB micros.
>
> The low-speed micros are REALLY cheap, and they need no external
> oscillator, reset circuit, etc.
>
> > Is the USB-PIC available yet? Is a price set for it?
>
> The full-speed (12 Mbit/sec) PIC? No, not available yet.
>
> -Andy
>
>
> === Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.RemoveThis.com
Andrew Warren
> I have done a small research on Cypress USB devices and found that
> they are only available in OTP (not even window cerdip). People at
> Cypress suggested me to buy a development kit and that is too
> expensive for a hobbyist. I would say that even the PIC is low
> speed, but good for a hobbyist. USB PIC is available in window
> cerdip and soon be available with flash ! :)
Chetan:
True, Cypress's low-speed USB micros are available only in OTP.
Mostly, that's because those parts are designed for use in very high-
volume applications like mice and keyboards, so the cost of an
emulator and/or a few tubes of OTP parts is trivial.
If you're a hobbyist who wants to make a USB device, though, I would
HIGHLY recommend Cypress's full-speed "EZ-USB" micros over the low-
speed parts. Low-speed USB is dumb; full- and high-speed USB
(especially with the "smart" SIE in the EZ-USB parts) is MUCH nicer.
The EZ-USB parts are RAM-based, so you only need to buy one. Code is
downloaded to them either over the USB connection or from a serial
EEPROM.
An EZ-USB development kit is available from Cypress for around $400;
if that's too expensive, there are a number of third-parties who sell
<$100 EZ-USB development boards.
-Andy
=== Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.NoThiS.com
Herbert Graf
> Mostly, that's because those parts are designed for use in very high-
> volume applications like mice and keyboards, so the cost of an
> emulator and/or a few tubes of OTP parts is trivial.
>
> If you're a hobbyist who wants to make a USB device, though, I would
> HIGHLY recommend Cypress's full-speed "EZ-USB" micros over the low-
> speed parts. Low-speed USB is dumb; full- and high-speed USB
> (especially with the "smart" SIE in the EZ-USB parts) is MUCH nicer.
>
> The EZ-USB parts are RAM-based, so you only need to buy one. Code is
> downloaded to them either over the USB connection or from a serial
> EEPROM.
>
> An EZ-USB development kit is available from Cypress for around $400;
> if that's too expensive, there are a number of third-parties who sell
> <$100 EZ-USB development boards.
Unfortunately that still remains WAY to expensive for a hobbiest. I'm not
trying to slam the product of the company you work for, but as a hobbiest
myself spending $100 on a product that I may not find good for my uses is
simply not worth it. It cost me a total of about $10 to start with PICs, and
that was the cost of the PIC. Just my opinion. TTYL
Andrew Warren
> [$100 for a development board] still remains WAY to expensive for a
> hobbiest. .... It cost me a total of about $10 to start with PICs,
> and that was the cost of the PIC.
Herbert:
Ok, so you already had a power supply, LEDs, breadboard, oscillator,
etc., so starting with PICs only cost $10.
If you already have that stuff, starting with the EZ-USB is just as
inexpensive; the dev boards are really only necessary for people who
need a complete, assembled board.
-Andy, who really didn't mean for this to become an EZ-USB discussion
=== Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.RemoveThis.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
--
Scott Newell
>inexpensive; the dev boards are really only necessary for people who
>need a complete, assembled board.
Then I'm gonna look into it too.
>-Andy, who really didn't mean for this to become an EZ-USB discussion
I, for one, am glad it did.
newell
Bob Ammerman
which is all you typically need for HID devices, _is_ available. For
example, at http://www.digikey.com:
PIC16C745-I/SP is available for 8.60 in singles.
This chip has 8K of instructions, 256 bytes of RAM, 22 i/o pins, 5 channel
8bit A/D, runs at 20Mhz and fits in a 28 pin package.
Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Warren" <a...@CYPRESS.CounterSpam.COM>
To: <PIC...@MITVMA.CounterSpam.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: USB options for a hobbyist
> wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman <PIC...@mitvma.Fight.Spam.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > What are the currently available options for a PIC hobbyist to go
> > USB?
>
> Wouter:
>
> WARNING! I'm not totally unbiased, as I work for Cypress
> Semiconductor, the leading manufacturer of USB microprocessors.
>
> The only USB-capable PIC in production is low-speed only, and it
> costs more than comparable chips from other vendors.
>
> > I have found the philips PDIUSBD11 ($3.05 at arrow).
>
> Yuck.
>
> > Anything cheaper?
>
> You might want to look at Cypress's USB micros; we have a full
> line, from the low-speed chips that are used in
> Microsoft/Logitech/Apple mice all the way up to high-speed (480
> Mbit/sec) USB micros.
>
> The low-speed micros are REALLY cheap, and they need no external
> oscillator, reset circuit, etc.
>
> > Is the USB-PIC available yet? Is a price set for it?
>
> The full-speed (12 Mbit/sec) PIC? No, not available yet.
>
> -Andy
>
>
> === Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.NoSpam.com
> === Principal Design Engineer
> === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
> ===
> === Opinions expressed above do not
> === necessarily represent those of
> === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
>
Bob Ammerman
their website (at least they promised it would be posted when I took the USB
class at the Masters) it would be VERY EASY for a relative beginner to get a
HID device working with the mChip devices.
Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Warren" <a...@CYPRESS.RemovE.COM>
To: <PIC...@MITVMA.Extra.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: USB options for a hobbyist
> Chetan Bhargava <PIC...@mitvma.Take.This.Out.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > I have done a small research on Cypress USB devices and found that
> > they are only available in OTP (not even window cerdip). People at
> > Cypress suggested me to buy a development kit and that is too
> > expensive for a hobbyist. I would say that even the PIC is low
> > speed, but good for a hobbyist. USB PIC is available in window
> > cerdip and soon be available with flash ! :)
>
> Chetan:
>
> True, Cypress's low-speed USB micros are available only in OTP.
> Mostly, that's because those parts are designed for use in very high-
> volume applications like mice and keyboards, so the cost of an
> emulator and/or a few tubes of OTP parts is trivial.
>
> If you're a hobbyist who wants to make a USB device, though, I would
> HIGHLY recommend Cypress's full-speed "EZ-USB" micros over the low-
> speed parts. Low-speed USB is dumb; full- and high-speed USB
> (especially with the "smart" SIE in the EZ-USB parts) is MUCH nicer.
>
> The EZ-USB parts are RAM-based, so you only need to buy one. Code is
> downloaded to them either over the USB connection or from a serial
> EEPROM.
>
> An EZ-USB development kit is available from Cypress for around $400;
> if that's too expensive, there are a number of third-parties who sell
> <$100 EZ-USB development boards.
>
> -Andy
>
>
> === Andrew Warren -- a...@cypress.NotNeeded.com
wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman
things that would 'traditionally' use a serial port like a PIC programmer,
F877 bootloader, DMX interface etc. 'low' speed USB is quite high-speed for
this type of applications!
So the Cypress USB micro's might be interesting, but where can I buy a few
(<10) and at what price?
The USB PIC is another alternative, but not very cheap. And I'll wait for a
flash version.
An any other solutions?
Wouter van Ooijen
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler for PIC uC's: http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal
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http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
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Josh Koffman
> things that would 'traditionally' use a serial port like a PIC programmer,
> F877 bootloader, DMX interface etc. 'low' speed USB is quite high-speed
<snip>
Just out of curiousity, have you done any DMX work already Wouter?
Josh Koffman
Wollenberg, Frank
> You might want to look at Cypress's USB micros; we have a full
> line, from the low-speed chips that are used in
> Microsoft/Logitech/Apple mice all the way up to high-speed (480
> Mbit/sec) USB micros.
Andrew,
what about development tools (assembler, C-compiler, simulator, emulator)?
What are their prices (round about) ?
Regards,
Frank
GSP Sprachtechnologie GmbH
Frank Wollenberg
HW-Entwicklung
Tel.: +49 (0)30 769929-78
Fax: +49 (0)30 769929-12
eMail: f.woll...@gsp-berlin.NO.SPAM.de
--
GSP Sprachtechnologie GmbH
Teltowkanalstr.1, D-12247 Berlin
Tel.: +49 (0)30 769929-0
Fax: +49 (0)30 769929-12
eMail: In...@gsp-berlin.Take.This.Out.de
Web: http://www.gsp-berlin.de
Walter Banks
on the Cypress WEB site.
w..
"Wollenberg, Frank" wrote:
>
> Andrew Warren [mailto:a...@CYPRESS.We.Hate.SP.AM.COM] wrote
>
> > You might want to look at Cypress's USB micros; we have a full
> > line, from the low-speed chips that are used in
> > Microsoft/Logitech/Apple mice all the way up to high-speed (480
> > Mbit/sec) USB micros.
>
> Andrew,
> what about development tools (assembler, C-compiler, simulator, emulator)?
> What are their prices (round about) ?
>
> Regards,
> Frank
>
> GSP Sprachtechnologie GmbH
> Frank Wollenberg
> HW-Entwicklung
> Tel.: +49 (0)30 769929-78
> Fax: +49 (0)30 769929-12
> eMail: f.woll...@gsp-berlin.NoSpam.de
>
> --
> GSP Sprachtechnologie GmbH
> Teltowkanalstr.1, D-12247 Berlin
> Tel.: +49 (0)30 769929-0
> Fax: +49 (0)30 769929-12
> eMail: In...@gsp-berlin.NotNeeded.de