Damn jugging is hard!
Fritz Lowrey
Ok, I'll admit it, I suck at jugging.
This weekend me and my big wall dreams headed out to Stoney Point
to learn how to jug. I'd read Long/Middendorf "Big Walls", I had my
ascenders, and I'd just bought a nifty new pair of aiders. I figured I
was ready.
- Fix the rope. No problem (west face, so all of the cars on
Topanga could see how cool I am)
- Rap down. No sweat.
- Whip out the gear... here's where things started to go wrong.
I suppose that perhaps I was asking too much of my ascenders. I've got
one Rock Exotica Microscender and one, <cough>, Wild Country Rope Man.
These have been fine tools when I solo fairly low angle stuff that doesn't
call for aiders, but I digress.
I hook up the daisy + aider + ascenders. I adjust them so it
appears that I won't be over extending the upper arm. I pull out the
slack from the rope and take my first vertical jugging step.
Man! As if getting the coordination between hands and feet
wasn't hard enough, the lower ascender (the RE) didn't want to disengage
and slide up. I had to manually disengage the jaw and slide the gizmo up.
Of course, I'd placed the upper ascender too far out on the daisy so I
wound up overextended on every move. I wound up making about 8 inches
per cycle.
Eventually I made it up 90' in about 15 minutes. Dead vertical
without having to clean anything. Nobody will want me for a quick trip
up the Nose!. Today I have a great collection of blisters from rubbing
the rope and an equally interesting set of nicks out of my knuckles from
gouging them on the rough sandstone. My shoulders are sore from the
push-yank-grab-push stuff and my knees are mutilated. Yes, I had a good
time. Mostly.
So here's the question: could handled ascenders have made my life
easier? I know that they're mandatory if you have to clean while jugging,
but do they also make it easier to slide along the rope? Are there
tricks that an experienced jugger could provide to an eager novice? For
the sake of my typing and piano playing, please help!
Fritz (ouch!)
"I'll gently raise and softly call, | Fritz Lowrey
Goodnight my friends, and joy to all."| Internet: jlo...@ucs.usc.edu
"A Parting Glass", Irish Traditional|
Chris Weaver
Fritz Lowrey <jlo...@ucs.usc.edu> wrote in article
<3454d0be....@nnrp.usc.edu>...
> So here's the question: could handled ascenders have made my life
> easier? I know that they're mandatory if you have to clean while
jugging,
> but do they also make it easier to slide along the rope? Are there
> tricks that an experienced jugger could provide to an eager novice? For
> the sake of my typing and piano playing, please help!
Fritz;
I'm not an "experienced" jugger, I've just practiced on fixed lines as you
have. I'm sure others, such as Dr. Coomer can give you more effective and
precise advice.
I never found it as much trouble as you describe. In fact, my first time
out I made such quick time up the rope that it almost seemed a waste of my
time to set it up in the first place. I have Petzls, and the handle helped
a lot (especially concerning barked knuckles), but I think you may want to
examine the process you are using also.
I've done this with two different methods. The first one I tried was one in
which I had one aider per ascender, with the upper ascender clipped to the
length of my reach, and the other one clipped so that when I stood in the
upper aider, the lower ascender would go just up to the upper ascender then
come tight on the daisy. I then selected the proper rungs for each foot so
that I could raise my feet as though I was walking up stairs (lowest rung
on top aider, 2nd or 3rd step in lower aider I think). Then off I went,
looking as though I were on a Versaclimber machine. On less than
overhanging rock, this was really fast - something like 40 feet in about
30-45 seconds. Also note: it's much faster to jug this way if you tie a
knot in the foot loops you'll be using so that your feet don't slip out as
easily. The first time I did this I found that I spent a lot of time
putting my feet back in the stirrups after they came out.
The other method I used, which wasn't as fast but would probably work
better on overhanging stuff, was the following: Both aiders on lower
ascender, daisied in close. No aider on upper ascender, just daisied in to
the length of my reach. With this method, you let your harness take ALL of
the weight for most of the time. Basically, you sit down on the lower
daisy, push the top ascender up until you can just transfer your weight to
that daisy. Weight the top daisy and lift up the lower ascender. With this
technique, you are able to stand up with both feet at once, then sit, push
with both feet, sit, etc.
I hope this helps somewhat. The descriptions might be a bit hard to follow.
Chris Weaver
Aklindsay1
Subject: Damn jugging is hard!
From: jlo...@ucs.usc.edu (Fritz Lowrey)
Date: Mon, Oct 27, 1997 11:04 AM
Message-id: <3454d0be....@nnrp.usc.edu>
Yo Fritz,
i won't call myself an expert but I can certainly relate. I remember my first
try, what a mess. It ended up as free-air and I had a pack on. Yikes!!
It does get easier as you slowly get your system dialed in
I noticed a couple of things that will help. First, start on low angle stuff,
so your toes can be on the rock and almost yopu can almost walk up as you jug.
That helps get the rythmn down. Also, I girth hitch the aiders to my foot,
keeps me from stepping out of them as I step up.
My high jug often ends up too high due to the harness sagging away from me.
Especially if you're hanging on the jug, allow for the stretch. I clip my
daisies to shorten and lengthen as I go.
It's nice to have gloves. Even with some handled ascenders, (yes, they will
help alot) I end up scrapping my knuckles along the rock.
I'm not familiar with the devices you used, I don't know how they compare, but
the lower ascender always carries the rope up with it until you get up aways.
Add some weight to the loop, or reach over and hold it down, or maually
release the catch as you did. Jumar brand are especially nice for this.
Have fun,
Alan Lindsay, Salt Lake City
AKLin...@AOL.com
Nate
maohai huang wrote:
> have you checked out the Russian made Ti ascenders that Ushba sells? i
> bought a pair for a friend. they are teeth-free hence must be very rope
> friendly. The finish and workmanship look impressive.
> Ushba claims that they work well when the rope is iced or mudded. but i
> didn't test them on that aspect before i sent them away. I only jugged up
> on a fix rope with them. the way they work is different from those made by
> Petzl etc. when they are weighted, the handle is paralelle to the ground.
Those things suck ass. Have your friend get a refund before they die in
an accident. I doubt the designer has ever jugged a rope in real life.
I'm an engineer, and it took me 5 mins to even figure out how they
work. They are dangerous, IMO. Forget passing pieces with any
efficiency, it takes two hands to disengage the rope. There is nothing
positive to grab the rope either. They force the rope to snake and bend
through the device. I would like to see wet/icy rope test results.
I'll take the proven cam with teeth design like on every other ascender
on the market, thank you.
--
Nathanial Beckwith - Boulder, CO
http://www.netone.com/~nate
Clyde Soles
Nate <na...@NOSPAM.netone.com> wrote:
> Those things suck ass. Have your friend get a refund before they die in
> an accident. I doubt the designer has ever jugged a rope in real life.
> I'm an engineer, and it took me 5 mins to even figure out how they
> work. They are dangerous, IMO. Forget passing pieces with any
> efficiency, it takes two hands to disengage the rope. There is nothing
> positive to grab the rope either. They force the rope to snake and bend
> through the device. I would like to see wet/icy rope test results.
> I'll take the proven cam with teeth design like on every other ascender
> on the market, thank you.
I guess that's where theory diverges from reality. I've used them, on
icy ropes even, and they work fine. Didn't take long to figure out
(essentially a handled Hiebler), they slide up and down very easiily but
grab when loaded, they far exceed CEN specs, and have the most ergonomic
grip of all. The old version was difficult to pass a piece with but it
wasn't too bad with practice, even one-handed, the new model has been
improved in this respect. Mind you I still like the new Petzls the best
but the Ushba is a decent choice...also has the distinction of being the
only ascender that is supposed to save you if your fixed line gets cut
(I wasn't about to test that!). I have had old Petzl's ice up on me and
slip btw.
FWIW, the original poster didn't mention hanging a weight on the bottom
of the rope before starting up. Helps a lot.
maohai huang
Nate <na...@NOSPAM.netone.com> wrote:
> Those things suck ass. Have your friend get a refund before they die in
> an accident. I doubt the designer has ever jugged a rope in real life.
My friend specifically asked for them. He is an engineer. ( They will
serve him right ;-) Russia sure has a lot of excellent climbers.
> I'm an engineer, and it took me 5 mins to even figure out how they
> work. They are dangerous, IMO.
but once you have figured it out it is not bad, as long as you always
weight it on the handle.
> There is nothing
> positive to grab the rope either. They force the rope to snake and bend
> through the device.
that is a feature! Doesn't most belay/rapel devices bend the rope?
on the down side, though, they are heavier than the Petzl even though they
are made with titanium. hey, you should see those huge russian figure 8s.
btw, the "Basic" version of Ushba ascender can work on 6mm ropes.
Daniel Engovatov
MadBolter wrote:
> mhu...@bu.edu (maohai huang) wrote:
>
> >btw, the "Basic" version of Ushba ascender can work on 6mm ropes.
>
> Who the hell wants to jug on a 6 mm rope!???!!! Give me a fat 11mm anyday when
> I'm hanging 2,000 feet off the deck! Ropes that thin (6mm) are one way tickets
> to the hereafter!
>
> -Rex Pieper
Aha.. Try hauling few hundred meters of 11mm for your fixed lines. Then
advertize your opinion.
Take care.
D.
Daniel Engovatov
Nate wrote:
> Daniel Engovatov wrote:
> >MadBolter wrote:
>
> >>Who the hell wants to jug on a 6 mm rope!???!!! Give me a fat 11mm anyday when
> >>I'm hanging 2,000 feet off the deck! Ropes that thin (6mm) are one way tickets
> >>to the hereafter!
>
> >Aha.. Try hauling few hundred meters of 11mm for your fixed lines. Then
> >advertize your opinion.
>
> I'm guessing Dan was perhaps one of the bright ones to climb the Free
> Blast with 5 ropes on their back. I can't think of any other possible
> situation. Maybe Dan can post something with more detail.
I was talking about alpine situation. 6mm is used relatively often.
Not for jugging as usual, but for that as well.
No, I did not jug vertically on 6 myself. I have friend who did,
they did not enjoy that, but that was a reasonable choice.
Daniel.
Brent Ware
Nate <na...@NOSPAM.netone.com> writes:
> Daniel Engovatov wrote:
> >MadBolter wrote:
>
> >>Who the hell wants to jug on a 6 mm rope!???!!! Give me a fat 11mm anyday when
> >>I'm hanging 2,000 feet off the deck! Ropes that thin (6mm) are one way tickets
> >>to the hereafter!
>
> >Aha.. Try hauling few hundred meters of 11mm for your fixed lines. Then
> >advertize your opinion.
6-7mm ropes aren't called `Harlin lines' for nothing.
-bw
maohai huang
MadBolter (madb...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: Who the hell wants to jug on a 6 mm rope!???!!! Give me a fat 11mm anyday when
: I'm hanging 2,000 feet off the deck! Ropes that thin (6mm) are one way tickets
: to the hereafter!
you are talking about climbing walls. if the parking lot is just 200 feet
away from the base, or you can afford to hire some locals to carry gears
for you when climbing big mountains, you can probablly bring a lot of heavy
overkill equipment.
the 6 mm cord is light, and strong enough for haulling half a ton ( Mummut
6mm breaks at 1,800 lb ). it's often used as safty ropes or retreat line
over crevasses and exposed sections of an alpine climb. it's the standard
rope to make a prussik knot. chances are that you always have some of it
with you. a light ascender that can work on a 6mm cord can be very handy in
awkward situations such as during a rescue. ascenders are not only for
jugging up verticle lines. these light and versatile gears are the least
likely to be left behind when trimming weight of your pack.
Daniel Engovatov
MadBolter wrote:
> Aha.. Try jugging a few hundred meters off the deck on your fixed lines. Then
> advertise your opinion.
>
> -Rex Pieper
Not on 6 in THIS (my) case. Otherwise - I had not any problems with that...
My point was about possibilty of using 6mm. Look for a recent post
by maihai for additional arguements.
Take care.
Daniel.
maohai huang
Michael John Bannister (gte...@prism.gatech.edu) wrote:
: Let's see... 6mm rope... few calculations... !!! You could also
: use some nice 2mm accesory cord for prussiks in case you dropped
: your ascenders. Fun!
the point is that with an ascender that can handle it, if you have to
ascend or lock off on a 6mm, you can. ( or you can use your shoe lace to
make a Klemheist -- another reason to use flat tape-like shoelace ;-)