Fredless (minor spoiler)
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Another good ep, this is turning into a great season, although perhaps it
didn't shine as much as last weeks, although I would have to watch it again
before OMWF, how could anything follow that?
Anyway back to the point, did anyone else notice JW reference to his movie
writing? I think it was Fred's mum that said something like, "...he was
always into them Alien movies all blood and slime, apart from that boring
last one, he fell asleep through that". (JW wrote Alien Resurrection in case
anyone didn't know) There the kind of nice touches that really set JW's
writing apart from the rest.
I was going to add something else, but I've forgotten what it was :-(
Tafka
-0000 in uk.media.tv.angel said:
>Anyway back to the point, did anyone else notice JW reference to his movie
>writing? I think it was Fred's mum that said something like, "...he was
>always into them Alien movies all blood and slime, apart from that boring
>last one, he fell asleep through that". (JW wrote Alien Resurrection in case
>anyone didn't know) There the kind of nice touches that really set JW's
>writing apart from the rest.
Just to include this:
"Episode 5, Season 3
Title: "Fredless"
Written by: Mere Smith"
:P
But it was a nice reference, all the same.
-Tafka-
It's a great thing when you realize you still have the ability to
surprise yourself.
Dan Milburn
Unless it's merely one of Joss' pseudonyms.... She did write the only
episode of 'Buffy' or 'Angel' he's directed but not written after all.
;)
OTOH, Joss has been somewhat vocal about his (entirely justified)
hatred of the movie, so maybe that's not it. :D
Dan
Tafka
GMT in uk.media.tv.angel said:
Like as in half of umta being Niall? Sounds reasonable :P
BTW; Which episode was it (MS wrote, JW directed)? I'm awful with
remembering things.
>OTOH, Joss has been somewhat vocal about his (entirely justified)
>hatred of the movie, so maybe that's not it. :D
Totally.
Including - at some point - being asked if he wrote an episode of a TV
show (I forget which) and then denying having ever written any script
for this TV show. This didn't stop the man claiming he preferred it to
A:R, though. :)
-Tafka-
"I meant to say, he's my favoritest character since Doyle."
"That's it, Angel's eating it." - Tim Minear
Dan Hartland
Hey! Watch it! I'm not me ... I mean, uh, Niall. I mean, uh, me. I mean ...
Curses!!!
:P
Dan
Dan Milburn
<snip>
>BTW; Which episode was it (MS wrote, JW directed)? I'm awful with
>remembering things.
It was 'Untouched'. :)
>
>>OTOH, Joss has been somewhat vocal about his (entirely justified)
>>hatred of the movie, so maybe that's not it. :D
>
>Totally.
>
>Including - at some point - being asked if he wrote an episode of a TV
>show (I forget which) and then denying having ever written any script
>for this TV show. This didn't stop the man claiming he preferred it to
>A:R, though. :)
Oh yeah, it was an episode of 'Boy Meets World' I think. He's also
considered doing a lecture tour using it for discussion of how not to
direct a movie.
Dan
Chris Ashby
Tafka <ta...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote in message
news:9ngo6u8339q52sa8r...@4ax.com...
Surely we've heard enough about the writing process by now, to realise that
the "written by" credit does not represent the person who conceived and
entirely scripted each episode.
AFAIAK it goes like this
writers meet as a team, to come up with themes and ideas for an ep. They
then break it down into act break events, and then scene beats. What each
character is doing is decided, until they have a step by step breakdown of
the episode.
The episodes are then handed over to one (sometimes two) of the writers to
write the dialogue, and flesh out the scenes. Then they scripts are given a
final re-write by JW, or DG, or both maybe?
So although the episode was "written by" Mere Smith, it doesn't necessarily
mean that he/she wrote that line. (Is mere a girl's name or a boy's name??)
The commentaries on the Buffy DVDs have a lot of instances of "Joss wrote
that whole scene", "that's a line Joss put in, in the re-write", "i'm often
getting complemented on a really great line, but if that happens it's
usually a Joss line"
Chris Ashby
"Untouched"
Tim Minear
the "written by" credit does not represent the person who conceived and
entirely scripted each episode.<<
True, as a rule. However, Mere wrote "Fredless." Joss conceived the story,
and Joss and I pretty much broke it over lunch.
>>writers meet as a team, to come up with themes and ideas for an ep. They
then break it down into act break events, and then scene beats. What each
character is doing is decided, until they have a step by step breakdown of
the episode.<<
That's about right, actually.
>>The episodes are then handed over to one (sometimes two) of the writers to
write the dialogue, and flesh out the scenes.<<
Actually, we, as a staff, break the beats, then the writer usually then writes
a more detailed scene-for-scene outline, then, after notes on the outline, goes
off and writes the script, which is more than just writing dialogue or simply
"fleshing out" scenes -- it's writing. But you are, in essence, correct.
>> Then they scripts are given a
final re-write by JW, or DG, or both maybe?<<
Not always. Not in the case of "Fredless," as for example. Mere did all the
rewrites, with one exception, I think. Joss did take his hand to one scene,
that was really more a speech than a scene.
>>So although the episode was "written by" Mere Smith, it doesn't necessarily
mean that he/she wrote that line.<<
She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
>> (Is mere a girl's name or a boy's name??)<<
Hottie girl.
Helen H
<snip>
>
>>>So although the episode was "written by" Mere Smith, it doesn't necessarily
>mean that he/she wrote that line.<<
>
>She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
Well could you thank her for me. I've been somewhat (cough, cough,
splutter) critical of Fred up to this point. But "Fredless" has
converted me .... I've put my thoughts in other threads but basically
I thought this was a really cleverly written and executed episode. My
favourite of S3 so far (notwithstanding your most worthy TOGOM).
>
>>> (Is mere a girl's name or a boy's name??)<<
>
>Hottie girl.
>
Bet ya' say that to all the writers.
Helen
Loz Pycock
(Tim Minear) mumble, "Gordon's alive!" mumble, mumble wrote:
<SNIPping for the important stuff>
>
>>> (Is mere a girl's name or a boy's name??)<<
>
>Hottie girl.
>
So how is it pronounced, 'Meer' or 'Me-ray' or what?
Loz
'The happy ending is justly scorned as a misrepresentation; for the
world, as we know it... yields but one ending: death, disintegration,
dismemberment, and the crucifixion of our heart with the passing of
the forms that we have loved.' Joseph Campbell, The Hero With a
Thousand Faces
Niall Harrison
>> Then they scripts are given a
>> final re-write by JW, or DG, or both maybe?
>
> Not always. Not in the case of "Fredless," as for example. Mere did all the
> rewrites, with one exception, I think. Joss did take his hand to one scene,
> that was really more a speech than a scene.
I'm gonna guess...the scene between Angel and Fred in Fred's room?
>>So although the episode was "written by" Mere Smith, it doesn't necessarily
>>mean that he/she wrote that line.
>
> She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
Dang, now I can't tell whether you're serious or just messing with us!
Niall
--
We've got the dreamer's disease.
Niall Harrison
> Mumble, mumble, 16 Feb 2002 08:59:12 GMT mumble, timm...@aol.com
> (Tim Minear) mumble, "Gordon's alive!" mumble, mumble wrote:
> <SNIPping for the important stuff>
>>
>>>> (Is mere a girl's name or a boy's name??)<<
>>
>>Hottie girl.
>
> So how is it pronounced, 'Meer' or 'Me-ray' or what?
Well, there was an interview with her on City of Angel a while back in
which the phrase 'mere-bear' was used. So I've always assumed it's
supposed to rhyme with the 'were' in 'werewolf'.
Niall
--
Activate the omega-13!
Tim Minear
"Mere" rhymes with "hair." Short for Meredith.
Steve Farrell
somebody called Tim Minear made the following views known to all at
uk.media.tv.angel:
>>>So how is it pronounced, 'Meer' or 'Me-ray' or what?<<
>
>"Mere" rhymes with "hair." Short for Meredith.
>
I always pronounced it Mere and assumed it was a man. I have been proven
wrong. By someone who ought to know.
Steve
--
'I tried being patient, but it took too long' - Anya, BtVS
Tim Minear
> rewrites, with one exception, I think. Joss did take his hand to one scene,
> that was really more a speech than a scene.
Niall>>I'm gonna guess...the scene between Angel and Fred in Fred's room?<<
Nope. Try again.
>
> She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
Niall>>Dang, now I can't tell whether you're serious or just messing with us!<<
Yes.
Niall Harrison
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Previously, on uk.media.tv.angel - Tim Minear wrote:
>> Not always. Not in the case of "Fredless," as for example. Mere did all the
>> rewrites, with one exception, I think. Joss did take his hand to one scene,
>> that was really more a speech than a scene.
>
> Niall>>I'm gonna guess...the scene between Angel and Fred in Fred's room?<<
>
> Nope. Try again.
OK...something that's more a speech than a scene...
The options that come to mind: Lorne's little rant at Angel, and Fred's
breakdown in the bus station. Everything else I can think of off the top
of my head falls more into 'scene' than 'speech', I would have thought.
Out of those, I'm gonna go for Lorne's rant.
>> She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
>
> Niall>>Dang, now I can't tell whether you're serious or just messing with us!<<
>
> Yes.
*thwap*
Niall
--
Can you take me where you're going if you're never coming back?
Tim Minear
>
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>>Fred's breakdown in the bus station. <<
Bingo.
pikelet
slowdancing for the pleasure of uk.media.tv.angel, Niall Harrison
<s...@tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk> declared:
>> Niall>>Dang, now I can't tell whether you're serious or just messing with us!<<
>>
>> Yes.
>
>*thwap*
*boggle*
Are you allowed to thwap your hero, Niall?
Tim.
--
God didn't create the world in six days.
He partied for five and then pulled an
all-nighter.
Tafka
Do you think we could get Tim to write a *thwap* into his final
episode perchance?
Perhaps someone could *thwap* someone and kill them.
It could be Fred's new signature move.
A good old *thwap* to the back of the neck and it could kill 'em,
y'know.
-Tafka-
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say if all you're gonna do is
switch back to brood mode, we'd rather have you evil. Then at least,
you'd be in leather pants.
Andrew Poulter
"pikelet" <timothy...@hertford.ox.ac.uk.iss.me.not.with.spammy.lips>
wrote in message news:atrv6uoifhr53t490...@4ax.com...
I was about to ask the same question! :-)
AJP
Chris Ashby
Tim Minear <timm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020216035912...@mb-ca.aol.com...
Thanks for the reply. I'd based my info on interviews and the DVD
commentaries, and some stuff from "The Watcher's Guide" books.
Tim Minear
commentaries, and some stuff from "The Watcher's Guide" books.<<
And I thought you pretty much nailed it, as well. Just giving you a bit of the
inside view on this particular ep.
Chris Ashby
In the UK, series are often written by just one writer (or a partnership),
usually the show creator, which leads to 6 episodes a season, and a 2-3 year
wait between each season! Regulatory body rules put into place many
restrictions on where and when ad breaks are placed, which prevents the sort
of scene cliffhangers that are prevelant on US shows.
And, of course, with the BBC there are no adverts, so no ad breaks.
I'm curious to see how Joss would tackle this with "Ripper" or whatever he's
calling it. that's assuming it ever happens!
Niall Harrison
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>>>Fred's breakdown in the bus station. <<
>
> Bingo.
I believe that was the scene I described elsewhere as 'overly
melodramatic'.
My estimation of Ms Smith has just gone up a little. ;-)
Niall
--
Catch the sun, find where it goes.
Niall Harrison
Hey, he was asking for it.
Niall - breaking taboos since, well, a couple of days ago.
--
Fire, walk with me.
Niall Harrison
> On 16 Feb 2002 08:59:12 GMT, timm...@aol.com (Tim Minear) wrote:
> <snip>
>>>>So although the episode was "written by" Mere Smith, it doesn't necessarily
>>mean that he/she wrote that line.<<
>>
>>She did write the ep. The joke, however, was mine. Mwa ha ha.
>
> Well could you thank her for me. I've been somewhat (cough, cough,
> splutter) critical of Fred up to this point. But "Fredless" has
> converted me .... I've put my thoughts in other threads but basically
> I thought this was a really cleverly written and executed episode. My
> favourite of S3 so far (notwithstanding your most worthy TOGOM).
As long as we're praising people, I'd like to put in another shout for Rob
Kral. The guy's great - his scores are one of the reasons I can watch some
episodes so many times without getting bored. 'Fredless' isn't his best
score, I don't think, but even there there are a couple of times the piano
theme they used for Fred in Pylea comes in, subtly varied. Neat.
Niall
--
Do I want the dreams?
Iain Clark
<s...@tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>Previously, on uk.media.tv.angel - Tim Minear wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>>>>Fred's breakdown in the bus station. <<
>>
>> Bingo.
>
>I believe that was the scene I described elsewhere as 'overly
>melodramatic'.
<g>
I think her performance in that scene made it feel more
melodramatic. She's normally a very good actress and she very
nearly nailed the scene for me, but I think she went a tad too
far. I was conscious of someone "acting" at me.
Iain
--
"Signs, portents, dreams...next thing
we'll be reading tea leaves and chicken entrails."
Mattia Valente
Good Grief....is *this* what happens when I'm outta the country for a
few days?
> Hey, he was asking for it.
He was? Well...hmm...true. But isn't that whole 'Evil/messing with your
head/mwah hah hah' vibe part of who he is?
> Niall - breaking taboos since, well, a couple of days ago.
Was it the booze?
Mattia
--
"My beagle went swimming today and now he's typing on my keyboard with
his ample nose. Oh, and he's the bestest handsomeest beagle EVER."
--Tim Minear, Salon.com, May 2001