LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
Jonathan Frain
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SPOILERS
A not so ringing review has been posted for the upcoming movie. I'm hoping
the reviewer has a strong bias against B5. I unfortunately have a very
strong bias against Crusade. I taped every episode and have yet to rewatch
or have the desire to rewatch any of them. I have also been VERY
disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception of In the Beginning.
With respect to details listed in the review:
If there truly is a scene with someone handling the ships guns via a VR
bubble, I'll be extremely disappointed. Hopefully it won't be as tacky as
it sounds.
If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
If this telefilm tanks, I'd honestly be open to the idea of someone else
taking over the universe from Joe. There should have been someone or
several someones in place to let Joe know what was wrong with Thirdspace,
river of souls and especially Crusade. Crusade wasn't an aberration, there
were precedents for it with the telefilms and parts of season 5. I dearly
want LOTR to kick total ass. I like what I've seen of the new captain, and
sincerely look forward to having a new alien powerhouse on the block. The
drakh just don't inspire fear.
Chris Applegate
news:001301c1572b$cf1b7d20$91401f42@zathras...
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> SPOILERS
>
> A not so ringing review has been posted for the upcoming movie. I'm
hoping
> the reviewer has a strong bias against B5. I unfortunately have a very
> strong bias against Crusade. I taped every episode and have yet to
rewatch
> or have the desire to rewatch any of them. I have also been VERY
> disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception of In the
Beginning.
>
> With respect to details listed in the review:
>
> If there truly is a scene with someone handling the ships guns via a VR
I read up to this point before I realized I wasn't on
rec.arts.books.tolkien.
Chris
Pål Are Nordal
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Jonathan Frain wrote:
>
> If there truly is a scene with someone handling the ships guns via a VR
> bubble, I'll be extremely disappointed.
You can see a few glimpses of it in the trailer. I expect there'll be a
few bugs they'll need to work out at first, but I think it'll look cool.
> Hopefully it won't be as tacky as it sounds.
I bet there were a lot people who said the exact same thing when hearing
about B5 using CGI instead of models.
> If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
> shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
> easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
Why must toughness be proportional to destructive power? A guy with a
nuke strapped to his back can still be clubbed to death.
> If this telefilm tanks, I'd honestly be open to the idea of someone else
> taking over the universe from Joe.
Why?
B5 *is* Joe. If he isn't doing it more, then I'll say goodbye and
cherish the memories. And I'll continue to enjoy Joe's non-B5 work, like
I'm doing now with Amazing Spider-Man and Midnight Nation.
Besides anybody good enough to take over the B5 universe, is good enough
to create something new from scratch.
> There should have been someone or
> several someones in place to let Joe know what was wrong with Thirdspace,
> river of souls and especially Crusade. Crusade wasn't an aberration, there
> were precedents for it with the telefilms and parts of season 5.
Well sorry, but I liked Gideon. I liked Max. I thought "To the Ends of
the Earth" was excellent. I also happen to think that season 5 contained
a number of good episodes, and many of the best moments series.
I am however not blind to their faults (which there are more of then
there should have been). Neither is jms, if you'd paid attention to
what's said about them lately.
--
Run a screensaver that helps cancer research: http://www.ud.com/
(and join the "Excalibur" team)
Pål Are Nordal
dr...@spamcop.net
Timothy Fleming
I thought that "A CAll to ARMS" was the very best of
the telefilms.
-Tim
On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Jonathan Frain wrote:
>I have been very disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception
>of In the Beginning.
>
yawnmoth
I know plenty of people who did that with the first few eps of B5, who
were never able to enjoy the series for what it was...
John Hammel
and publications as well, do not carefully watch an episode or movie very carefully. Many times I
can recall reading a review after seeing a movie and realizing the critic missed subtle plot
points and even apparently whole stretches of a film or tv episode. I tend rather to trust my own
eyes. Let's wait and see before agonizing. One of the things I appreciate about JMS' writing is
that he does not always hit you over the head with the story. He draws things out and makes you
think about what's going on. Many, not all, people want things dropped right in their laps.
As far as Crusade bashers are concerned, I would point out that Crusade was only a part of the B5
universe, but not a necessarily familar part. Watching the episodes in order on Sci-Fi, bless
them, makes me wish even more for a continuance. The characters were developing, always important
in the B5 universe, and the main plotline was just beginning to gel. Given a real chance it would
have been wonderful.
Just my two cents.
Dylan Hankel
overobsessed Buffy fans. They consistently rate Buffy higher than any other
show they cover. Especially their head informant "Hercules" who gives pretty
much every episode of Buffy he sees 5/5 stars. The forums are filled with
people who think jms came up with B5 by watching DS9. I never read their
reviews anymore nor will I read this one due to the fact that I almost never
read spoilers and I don't need my enjoyment of this show (which looks
mindblowing from the trailer) to be ruined by folks who'd rather watch the
worst Buffy episodes or discuss what happened on Survivor than watch Severed
Dreams or Sleeping in Light. It took them FOREVER to even mention LoTR when
it was first announced because they were so busy posting Buffy spoiler
stories or covering MTV's the Real World. And I'm not slamming Buffy, or any
other show it's just that they cover it way too much. AICN is run by very
biased and overly critical people and is not what I'd call a serious
journalisitc effort by any stretch of the imagination. The way to decide if
a new show is good is on your own.
Dylan H.
horizon
>
>
> A not so ringing review has been posted for the upcoming movie. I'm
hoping
> the reviewer has a strong bias against B5. I unfortunately have a very
> strong bias against Crusade. I taped every episode and have yet to
rewatch
> or have the desire to rewatch any of them. I have also been VERY
> disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception of In the
Beginning.
Yeah, I've never been enamored with the movies either.
> With respect to details listed in the review:
Assuming the reviewer saw something close to the final cut, it doesn't sound
promising at all. Disappointing.
Matt C
Kathryn Huxtable
news:9qkl57$d33$1...@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu...
> > If there truly is a scene with someone handling the ships guns via a VR
>
> I read up to this point before I realized I wasn't on
> rec.arts.books.tolkien.
Yes, I've had that reaction to the acronym LotR, too. The Tolkien fans have
been using that acronym for decades.
-K
James Bell
get some decent advance information at times but that doesn't make them
experts in any way.
Jim
"Dylan Hankel" <dyl...@ndak.net> wrote in message
news:tss0id9...@corp.supernews.com...
Jms at B5
>the reviewer has a strong bias against B5. I unfortunately have a very
>strong bias against Crusade.
Let's see...a reviewer who goes under the handle Captain Christopher Pike (a
classic Star Trek character), compares everything in B5 to Star Trek, and is
subbing for another so-called reviewer called Herc who is a bigtime B5 hater
from way back...AND he posts a negative "review" of B5: Rangers?
I'm shocked...shocked, I tell you.
Lemme give you a heads-up here...there is a qualitative difference between an
actual reviewer and the kind of jumped up fanboy who posts a message on this
kind of system specifically for the purpose of trashing something out of the
usual fanboy feud shit we've seen over the last seven years. (And then, from
what I've heard, pops on over to b5lr.com to get reactions because he wants to
get his jollies.)
This is not a review. It's not even close to a review, and this kind of crap
is what totally destroys and has destroyed any hope of legitimacy that aicn
has, which is why just about everybody in the business now totally writes them
off. It started off as a news site, now it's a fanboy site with clearly
distinguished biases.
They don't like that I say this? Tough. It's my review of their performance.
Look, how about we actually *see* the thing? I think it may be one of the best
things B5 we've ever done. WB had NO NOTES on the thing. SFC had ONE note, to
make one word (entil'zha) a bit louder because it's kind of a plot point. Both
places referred to it as stunning and beautiful and maybe our best work to
date.
So for some cretin as this to come out and try to torpedo something out of the
same crap feud that's been out there for seven years, and for people like you
to actually *fall* for this crap and post things like....
>If this telefilm tanks, I'd honestly be open to the idea of someone else
>taking over the universe from Joe.
...demonstrates a degree of credulity bordering on the mind-boggling.
This happens every time we do anything B5 related, it happened every season of
the show ("We've seen scripts for season three and it's going to be just
action, no more character stuff") and you'd think sooner or later people would
learn not to fall for the okeydoke especially when a piece like this is SO
obviously a plant by someone with an anti-B5 bias (a prior aicn review that
slipped in, from someone WITHOUT any B5 bias, LOVED the film and this was
before the EFX were even in the damned thing).
Jesus, Jonathan, get a grip and use a little critical thinking once in a
while....
jms
(jms...@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)
Mac Breck
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
See http://www.b5lr.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000390.html
Mac Breck
------------------------
Vorlon Empire
"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/ http://www.b5lr.com/
Tammy Smith
some Trek fans to trash B5, & I couldn't understand why they would do
this. I still don't--it's stupid & pointless. I don't like Trek as
much as I used to, but I don't go to Trek sites & trash it. I guess
I'll never understand what motivates these people.
Tammy
Larry Kramer
> strong bias against Crusade. I taped every episode and have yet to rewatch
> or have the desire to rewatch any of them. I have also been VERY
> disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception of In the Beginning.
I agree with you that the B5 telefilms (except ITB) were a bit
disappointing. They were generally *at best* about the quality of a
average B5 episode, whereas I would have expected a bit better.
My *initial* reactions to Crudade were also poor, based like many on
seeing the first few episodes TNT aired. However, I taped the recent
SciFi channel marathon and have watched the first two so far ("Racing
he Night" and "The Needs Of Earth"). I enjoyed both alot and think
these (which I believe reflected more of JMS's hand instead of TNT
influence) were well done.
Crusade as a whole likely could have been a very good series given the
time and creative freedom to make it so. Unfortunately it was not to
be.....
Hope TLOTR is better than the reviewer makes it sound since I have
hopes it will launch a new "B5" universe series!
Mac Breck
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Thanks. That's what a lot of us have suspected over at the Rangers
Discussion page at b5lr.com. Some of us are trying to keep things on a
positive note, but it's tough when the downer is in the thread title, and
that doesn't go away (scroll or get modified).
br...@blindpanic.com
>This happens every time we do anything B5 related, it happened every season of
>the show ("We've seen scripts for season three and it's going to be just
>action, no more character stuff")
(possible spoilers for those that have not, as yet, seen season three
episodes)
Hopefully that's enough. Can't be too careful though....let's give a
bit more room...
I missed season 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 when it originally aired. Living
in a place where fire is one of those new-fangled things does have
some disadvantages.
Recently a friend of mine gave me season 3 and 4 on tape, and I watch
one episode per day (while I eat lunch). It has been many years since
I got so caught up in a book or a movie that I forgot I was reading,
or watching.
I've recently watched the episode where B5 breaks away from the Earth
alliance. But I went from near despair to almost euphoria at the end,
when B5 was about to fall...and Delenn shows up to save the station.
I am so very glad I never heard or listened to the people who
critisized this series. I've been able to watch it cold, and I have
been amazed.
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Frain" <jonf...@mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
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> SPOILERS
>
>
> I unfortunately have a very
> strong bias against Crusade. I taped every episode and have yet to
rewatch
> or have the desire to rewatch any of them.
I wonder why that is. Personally, I've found that Crusade gets better with
successive viewings. Like B5, little details appear that you didn't see the
previous time.
> I have also been VERY
> disappointed with the B5 telefilms, with the exception of In the
Beginning.
Not me. The only one I was somewhat disappointed in was River of Souls. I
loved In the Beginning, my biggest gripe with A Call to Arms was the
occasional cheesy line (e.g. Pizza Delivery Trucks). Thirdspace was over
too fast, and suffered an almost Trek-like last minute wrap-up. I also wish
they'd gone into Vorlon/Thirdspace alien history more. The other thing that
could have helped Thirdspace was connections to B5 episodes, especially at
the beginning and at the end, just some ties here and there to make it seem
like more a part of the series history.
> With respect to details listed in the review:
>
> If there truly is a scene with someone handling the ships guns via a VR
> bubble, I'll be extremely disappointed. Hopefully it won't be as tacky as
> it sounds.
It all depends on the execution, and *we* haven't *seen* that yet. It would
ring false if they had no outside shots of the ship firing as well.
Hopefully, there will be a fairly even balance between the types of shots.
Right now, it sounds like a much fancier version of the Minbari sensor
display, with VR interaction added.
> If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
> shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
> easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
Hard to imagine anything *that* powerful, but then again, everything has
vulnerabilities.
> There should have been someone or
> several someones in place to let Joe know what was wrong with Thirdspace,
> river of souls and especially Crusade.
OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
Crusade?
> Crusade wasn't an aberration, there
> were precedents for it with the telefilms and parts of season 5. I dearly
> want LOTR to kick total ass. I like what I've seen of the new captain,
and
> sincerely look forward to having a new alien powerhouse on the block.
The only thing that was bad about Season 5 was a good bit of the
Byron/telepath arc (but we know why that happened), and the pacing caused by
not knowing there was even going to *be* a Season 5 until the last minute.
> The
> drakh just don't inspire fear.
Have you read the Centauri Prime trilogy yet?
Dylan Winslow
someone took away their exclaimation point?
--
Dylan Winslow
dyl...@xmission.com
"People who say, 'You're either part of the solution or part of the
problem,' are themselves, part of the problem."
--Robert Anton Wilson
Jonathan Frain
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JMS,
AICN has lost my respect, especially due to the Hercules centric views of
shows and films. Every week is spent discussing a handfull of shows he
loves such as roswell, buffy and the west wing. I boycotted their site for
a while because of their complete snubbing of Babylon 5 and Farscape. They
haven't lost all credibility as Harry was given access to the Lord of the
Rings set for some major scenes.
I do believe that the reviewer, who isn't hercules, does have a gripe with
B5 to some extent. I love B5 and continue watching my tapes and catch it
sometimes on sci fi and I believe I am thinking critically when it comes to
Crusade. You yourself have mentioned that a close friend revealed to you
that he/she felt you had overextended yourself and that Crusade suffered. I
accept the fact that B5 was exactly what I was looking for in a show and
that no other show that is ever made will affect me and reach me the way B5
did.
I no longer get excited about future B5 projects. There have been several
B5 related projects that you were really excited about and felt had turned
out great, that have been disappointing to me personally. It is from this
disappointment that my pessimism stems. (It may also have to do with
growing up in Red Sox country where the team always finds ways to mess up in
the end.) After the debacle that was "The Phantom Menace", it's kind of
hard for me to get excited for episode II. But i'll still pay to see it and
hopefully will be pleasantly surprised.
Jonathan Frain
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> There should have been someone or
> several someones in place to let Joe know what was wrong with Thirdspace,
> river of souls and especially Crusade.
>>OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
>>Crusade?
I'll just answer with respect to Crusade for now.
1) Music
I'm sorry but Evan's music only served to distract me most of the time.
Music and
atmosphere can server to aid in telling the story or to distract from the
story.
2) Special Effects
Just as Evans music tended to distract me from the story, the special
effects seemed
to have the same effect too many times. The effects team was extremely
ambitious
with Crusade, although the writer takes the burden there as they can only
portray
what is written on the page. The scense that come to mind are
1) The drakh that had crashed landed on a planet and were seen firing
from
the ground at a shuttle. Human-like movement is very difficult to render
authentically, as could be seen in a pivotal scene in "in the shadow of
z'ha'dum".
2) The technomage alter ego that was walking around the planet -
I believe he had projected himself.
3) The scene where Gideon is on a hoverbike of some sort and fleeing an
attacking ship, where we see him look back over his shoulder tosee
if
he's still being chased. The scene just wasn't very believable to
me - visually speaking.
4) I honestly feel that B5's special effects quality went down with the
departure of
Foundation. I also believe that their ambition went up at the same
time making for
some awkward special effects scenes
3) Character/Casting:
Part of my feelings here may stem from the list of characters JMS
mentioned might be in the series including a warrior caste minbari and a
member of zathras's species. Regardless, several cast members just
didn't seem to pull their weight.
The actress portraying the Doctor just did a terrible job, she was
incapable of expressing emotion. Her scenes with Richard Biggs
demonstrated her complete and utter lack of presence. She's
beautiful without a doubt, but lacks any and all charisma.
The archaeologist had definite signs of becoming interesting as a
character, whether the actor could have pulled it off I'm not so sure.
Carrie Dobro did a good job with what she was given, a very
good job in fact. It's just that her character is taken right out
of a D&D campaign.
The character of Gideon struck me as being fairly impotent.
Gary Cole is an excellent actor, I just don't think he was
given much to work with in terms of being a leader.
The character of Matheson was portrayed subtly and
quite well in my opinion.
I defer comment on the technomage - as I haven't seen the episodes
in the desired order - which would make his appearances less frequent
at certain points. Part of me felt that just as Data was created to be
sort of a new spock for TNG, the technomage functioned as sort of a
new Kosh.
> Crusade wasn't an aberration, there
> were precedents for it with the telefilms and parts of season 5. I dearly
> want LOTR to kick total ass. I like what I've seen of the new captain,
and
> sincerely look forward to having a new alien powerhouse on the block.
>>The only thing that was bad about Season 5 was a good bit of the
>>Byron/telepath arc (but we know why that happened), and the pacing caused
by
>>not knowing there was even going to *be* a Season 5 until the last minute.
> The drakh just don't inspire fear.
>>Have you read the Centauri Prime trilogy yet?
Actually I have. They are terrorists, pure and simple. If you're alone
with a Drakh
and they have no power over your loved ones, I don't think they'd inspire as
much
fear as being stuck alone with an angry narn.
Travers Naran
news:20011018031452...@mb-ma.aol.com...
> Jesus, Jonathan, get a grip and use a little critical thinking once in a
> while....
Critical thinking? On USENET!? Surely, you jest, Mr. Straczynski. :-)
Jeff Vavasour
> classic Star Trek character), compares everything in B5 to Star Trek, and is
> subbing for another so-called reviewer called Herc who is a bigtime B5 hater
> from way back...AND he posts a negative "review" of B5: Rangers?
Can't remember Herc being a B5-hater but AICN Coaxial was originally run by
Glen Oliver who was totally devoted to B5. It then got turned over to Dave
"El Cosmico" Alvarado who was also a B5 devotee, though Herc seems, for
practical purposes, to be in charge of AICN Coaxial now. (I believe there are
other proponents of B5 there too such as "Robogeek".) IIRC, Herc's been too
gaga over Buffy to really say much bad about B5.
> This is not a review. It's not even close to a review, and this kind of
crap
> is what totally destroys and has destroyed any hope of legitimacy that aicn
> has, which is why just about everybody in the business now totally writes
them
> off. It started off as a news site, now it's a fanboy site with clearly
> distinguished biases.
Funny, I thought AICN was always a fanboy site, an interesting fanboy site
with an atypical profile, but a fanboy site nonetheless. (Ironically, I found
it many years ago because of Glen Oliver's Coaxial section.)
Anyway, FTR, on July 20th, there was a review posted by another author which
read in part "...after some apprehension about the series, I was actually
impressed."
> Look, how about we actually *see* the thing?
Honestly, perhaps sadly, that's not enough. Some people simply don't have the
time to watch everything on TV without some promise that it'll be worth the
time, hence the need for (p)reviewers.
The scenes shown in Vancouver, though a great treat (due to the intimate
nature of the presentation, not due to the content), did not do it for me.
The plot as outlined brought to mind hints of Thirdspace and the scenes such
as the G'Kar monologue a certain sense of deja vu. The only reason I'm
interested in watching is that you (jms) assure us that these impressions are
incorrect. Nonetheless, you've got to ask if everything is going right if
these are the leading impressions. (For reference, I was an
absolutely-devoted B5 fan. I thought it was the best thing on television, so
this impression is possible even with an audience where the odds are stacked
in your favour.)
Incidentally, Enterprise promised to be something different than the leading
impressions too. I gave it the pilot and one episode. Haven't watched since.
It all comes down to who you trust to present the "real deal": one-shot
anonymous reviewers with no track record, or the work's own author? It could
easily be a tough call. I trust jms's assurances enough to give it a shot.
Afterwards, I'll know if that trust was well-placed or should be reconsidered.
But either way, I'm not going to get more worked up about it than a TV show
warrants. I'm certainly not signing any petitions to get title music
changed... :-)
- Jeff
p.s. Speaking of impressions, the VR combat sounds a bit... gimmicky... more
of a "wouldn't it be cool" moment than meaningful to the setting. We'll see,
though.
Mike Ross
<jonf...@mediaone.net> wrote:
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>
>SPOILERS
>
>
>If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
>shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
>easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
Excuse me, if the Shadows didn't 'look like insects' then what the
hell did they look like?
And there's a difference between being individually powerfull and
being made powerfull by technology...
Has this reviewer ever seen any B5 I wonder?
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
Rangers Catering Corps - 'we boil for the One, we fry for the One'
LK
<jonf...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>I do believe that the reviewer, who isn't hercules, does have a gripe with
>B5 to some extent. I love B5 and continue watching my tapes and catch it
>sometimes on sci fi and I believe I am thinking critically when it comes to
>Crusade. You yourself have mentioned that a close friend revealed to you
>that he/she felt you had overextended yourself and that Crusade suffered. I
>accept the fact that B5 was exactly what I was looking for in a show and
>that no other show that is ever made will affect me and reach me the way B5
>did.
There's an incredible difference between a close friend [paraphrasing]
saying, "Your exhaustion and war wounds were slipping through and you
needed a break, " and telling someone they aren't capable of working
again in their own universe. It sounds like you keep suggesting that
JMS "sell" B5 universe to "new blood." Kinda like telling an
overworked parent someone else needs to permanently take over rearing
the children for them because they've been through rough times for
awhile, and though things are still busy and life's easier now...well,
you didn't do "good enough" back then so you can't be trusted to do
good enough in the present or in the future.
In both cases the "well meaning" concern and the advice is lousy and
isn't worth the waste of oxygen used to speak it or the strokes of
engery on the keyboard.
LK
Who has heard similar advice myself about a variety of projects and I
perservered and suceeded, while those "concerned" people have faded
into the past and remain stuck in their timid roles of finding others
they can pretend to support while they offer affection and loyalty
with the back of a hand.
Jonathan Kass
shining brilliant moments of one of the truly shining brilliant episodes of
the entire series - saw that clip at a couple of cons back when the show was
airing, it always brought people to their feet cheering... and one of the
greatest quotable speeches in the entire series as well (If you value your
lives, Be Somewhere Else - just wonderful... - you'll get another moment
that is very similar to this down the line - female character will deliver a
drop-dead straight on solid statement in a similar standoff - won't spoil it
further, but I think you'll know it when you hear it...)
And I'm a near-original trekkie (I'm pretty sure it was trekkie before
trekker before whatever is in vogue now), and its not a competition, but
there are few lines in all the series combined that come to mind that
quickly (perhaps "lets get the hell out of here" from city on the edge of
forever, but that's cheating, cause there are two shows both influenced by a
common artist as well...)
oh well just wanted to tell you it was a good pick IMHO :)
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Frain" <jonf...@mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: RE: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
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>
> > There should have been someone or
> > several someones in place to let Joe know what was wrong with
Thirdspace,
> > river of souls and especially Crusade.
>
> >>OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
> >>Crusade?
>
>
> I'll just answer with respect to Crusade for now.
>
> 1) Music
>
> I'm sorry but Evan's music only served to distract me most of the time.
> Music and
> atmosphere can server to aid in telling the story or to distract from the
> story.
I've found that to be the case only in a few specific places, and next time
I watch the episodes, I'll have to note them. All I can recall at this
moment is the loud clangs which very nearly drown out Eilerson's lines a few
times. Since, I really like Eilerson's character, and he gets some *great*
lines, I want to *hear* those lines, not *struggle to hear* them through
some distracting, loud clangs. I've always said this, ever since I first
saw Crusade on TNT, though not in this much detail.
> 2) Special Effects
>
> Just as Evans music tended to distract me from the story, the special
> effects seemed
> to have the same effect too many times. The effects team was extremely
> ambitious
> with Crusade, although the writer takes the burden there as they can only
> portray
> what is written on the page. The scense that come to mind are
> 1) The drakh that had crashed landed on a planet and were seen firing
> from
> the ground at a shuttle. Human-like movement is very difficult to render
> authentically,
War Zone:
So you're talking about the few seconds that showed that one Drakh soldier
firing at the shuttle? It was only on screen for a short time, so I don't
have a problem with that.
The Drakh soldiers being shot off the cliff by Thunderbolt Starfuries? That
was also a quick, relatively distant scene, so again, I have no problem with
it. The same could be said for the distant shots of the underground city
that showed people movement (or the distant overhead of Mars traffic inside
the dome).
CGI was used to depict sets that they obviously could not physically build.
The people movement in these sets, that was CGI people movement was almost
always at a *distance* when the people were *supposed* to be *real* people
(as distinguished from Galen's homonculous, sp?, in Racing the Night). I
thought the CGI sets in The Memory of War were great (Dureena admiring the
view, the moon going across the buildings/sky at night, the final explosion
with the Technomage's face in the cloud of smoke and flame among the CGI
buildings).
> as could be seen in a pivotal scene in "in the shadow of
> z'ha'dum".
Scenes of the Icarus crew walking across the surface, to the caves? That
was also a quick, relatively distant scene, so I have no problem with it.
> 2) The technomage alter ego that was walking around the planet -
> I believe he had projected himself.
No big deal. He's not supposed to look "perfectly" like Galen, just enough
to fool the robotic ship's sensors, not a sentient being standing close to
the homonculous (sp?).
> 3) The scene where Gideon is on a hoverbike of some sort and fleeing
an
> attacking ship, where we see him look back over his shoulder tosee
> if
> he's still being chased. The scene just wasn't very believable to
> me - visually speaking.
It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't bad either. Maybe there was a little
flicker in the buildings there, and maybe the lighting on Gideon and the
buildings could have been closer in color and brightness, and maybe they
could have put in a bit of echo as he yelled to the ships, but it was a fast
scene and this is *really* picking nits. If you can't suspend disbelief
even a little bit, I don't see how you could enjoy *any* Sci-Fi.
> 4) I honestly feel that B5's special effects quality went down with
the
> departure of
> Foundation. I also believe that their ambition went up at the
same
> time making for
> some awkward special effects scenes
What was the switchover point between Ron Thornton/Foundation and Netter
Digital? I'll have to pay some attention to this, but right now, if there
was any degradation, it seems to have been slight.
> 3) Character/Casting:
> Part of my feelings here may stem from the list of characters
JMS
> mentioned might be in the series including a warrior caste minbari and a
> member of zathras's species. Regardless, several cast members just
> didn't seem to pull their weight.
>
> The actress portraying the Doctor just did a terrible job, she was
> incapable of expressing emotion. Her scenes with Richard Biggs
> demonstrated her complete and utter lack of presence. She's
> beautiful without a doubt, but lacks any and all charisma.
She was my least favorite character as well. The term "wooden" comes to
mind. Perhaps, she would have grown into the role. It couldn't have been
easy, you know, given the environment they were all working in, with TNT.
Maybe she let it get to her more than Peter Woodward, David Allen Brooks,
Daniel Dae Kim, and Carrie Dobro.
> The archaeologist had definite signs of becoming interesting as a
> character, whether the actor could have pulled it off I'm not so sure.
I *am* sure. To me he was 100% believable.
> Carrie Dobro did a good job with what she was given, a very
> good job in fact. It's just that her character is taken right out
> of a D&D campaign.
Agreed that she did a very good job. Her interactions with the rest of the
crew, especially Gideon and Galen were interesting.
> The character of Gideon struck me as being fairly impotent.
> Gary Cole is an excellent actor, I just don't think he was
> given much to work with in terms of being a leader.
I've never been a big fan of Gary Cole. In most of his films (Office Space,
A Simple Plan) and TV appearances (American Gothic, Midnight Caller,
Crusade), he appears to be 99% the same guy, the wise-cracking, smart alec
who thinks he's superior to everybody else. (Bear in mind that I have
*never* seen a Brady Bunch TV show or movie. NOT my kind of show. I also
haven't seen Midnight Caller or American Gothic in YEARS.)
> The character of Matheson was portrayed subtly and
> quite well in my opinion.
I agree, *especially* in The Needs of Earth.
> I defer comment on the technomage - as I haven't seen the episodes
> in the desired order - which would make his appearances less frequent
> at certain points.
> Part of me felt that just as Data was created to be
> sort of a new spock for TNG, the technomage functioned as sort of a
> new Kosh.
He does have some elements of that (being Kosh-like, knowing more than the
others, being cryptic, etc.), but if you read the books, you'll see that
there's a LOT more to it than that (far, far too much to explain here, and I
don't want to issue spoilers, anyway).
To know Galen, you must watch The Geometry of Shadows, A Call to Arms, the
Crusade Episodes in JMS's order, read the Technomage Books (1 & 2 currently
available), and the Centauri Prime trilogy (Galen is there a few times.),
and then rewatch the Galen episodes (except War Zone). Trust me, it's worth
it. Pay close attention to what's said. There are links/references
everywhere.
> > Crusade wasn't an aberration, there
> > were precedents for it with the telefilms and parts of season 5. I
dearly
> > want LOTR to kick total ass. I like what I've seen of the new captain,
> and
> > sincerely look forward to having a new alien powerhouse on the block.
>
> >>The only thing that was bad about Season 5 was a good bit of the
> >>Byron/telepath arc (but we know why that happened), and the pacing
caused
> by
> >>not knowing there was even going to *be* a Season 5 until the last
minute.
Oh, I forgot. IMHO, Tracy Scoggins portrayal of Lochley (in Season 5, River
of Souls, and Crusade) is on par with Marjean Holden's portrayal of Dr.
Chambers, and Michael O'Hare's portrayal of Sinclair (in a couple of scenes
in the Pilot ONLY), which is to say, "wooden" (not emoting, or not
believably emoting). Part of it might be the characters themselves. Some
people have a protective shell around them, and doctors can be known to be
callous sometimes, but usually, over time, the protective layer thins with
regard to their friends, and they let people in. Sinclair did this
believably and gradually. Lochley didn't do it much at all, and when she
did, it was in fits and spurts (momentary times when the wall was down, but
it soon went back up again, almost to the same height). Chambers was always
the doctor, and sometimes the doctor trying to act human (trying to put on
the false facade of a bedside manner).
> > The drakh just don't inspire fear.
>
> >>Have you read the Centauri Prime trilogy yet?
>
> Actually I have. They are terrorists, pure and simple. If you're alone
> with a Drakh
> and they have no power over your loved ones,
And don't the Drakh always seek to ensure that they have power over your
loved ones? The Drakh would make sure that you had something, other than
your own life, to lose.
> I don't think they'd inspire as much
> fear as being stuck alone with an angry narn.
I disagree. With an angry Narn, you'd likely die quickly. A Drakh would
likely torture you for days, weeks, or years before you were killed. The
Drakh have access to shadowtech (keepers, etc.), and other shadow allies
(the surgeons, the soldiers of darkness). Hell, the Drakh would probably
take you slowly and painfully to the edge of death, and then heal you, only
so he could take you slowly and painfully to the edge of death, over and
over again. I'd prefer the Narn. It'd be quicker, and more straightforward.
Stanley Friesen
<Spoiler Space>
<Spoiler Space>
<Spoiler Space>
>As far as Crusade bashers are concerned, I would point out that Crusade was only a part of the B5
>universe, but not a necessarily familar part. Watching the episodes in order on Sci-Fi, bless
>them, makes me wish even more for a continuance. The characters were developing, always important
>in the B5 universe, and the main plotline was just beginning to gel. Given a real chance it would
>have been wonderful.
>
Having read the scripts of the two unfilmed episodes while they were
available on the Web before this latest round of rewatching the released
episode, I can say that there is more going on in some of those episodes
than originally met the eye.
At the end of the episode where Galen tricks Gideon into finding the
place where he left his girlfriend's ashes, he makes a promise to
Gideon. In the unfilmed season finale, he keeps it, against his own
best interests. WOW!
Then there is the episode with the mind healer in a sealed bubble. The
section about Gideon's witnessing of his former ship's destruction was
more than just background. The mystery ship that destroyed it plays a
BIG role in the season ending (both of the unfilmed episodes involved
that ship).
I am REALLY unhappy at the series being canceled now. Crusade, while
different than B5, had the same sorts of subtle intertwining threads.
[OK, so I cannot remember episode titles].
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
Simon Lipscomb-Allhouse
[snip]
Reminds me of an article in The Onion a few weeks ago: "Fans Argue Over
Which Unmade Sci-Fi Film is Better."
Oh, and by the way, the sky is falling. I know for a fact. I read it
over on www.chickenlicken.com.
---Dr. Simon Lipscomb-Allhouse, Univ. Labs of Physiology. Oxford.----
No-one is completely useless-
They can always serve as a bad example.
Stanley Friesen
>(possible spoilers for those that have not, as yet, seen season three
>episodes)
>
>
>
>
>
>Hopefully that's enough. Can't be too careful though....let's give a
>bit more room...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I missed season 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 when it originally aired. Living
>in a place where fire is one of those new-fangled things does have
>some disadvantages.
>
>Recently a friend of mine gave me season 3 and 4 on tape, and I watch
>one episode per day (while I eat lunch). It has been many years since
>I got so caught up in a book or a movie that I forgot I was reading,
>or watching.
>
>I've recently watched the episode where B5 breaks away from the Earth
>alliance. But I went from near despair to almost euphoria at the end,
>when B5 was about to fall...and Delenn shows up to save the station.
>
Delenn: "Only one human has defeated a Minbari warship, he is behind me,
you are in front of me."
[I think I got that a bit wrong - sigh].
Chilling.
That whole sequence of episodes was a real roller coaster ride.
Me, I will watch at *least* the LOTR movie and (if aired) two regular
episodes. And then, unless is sucks (fat chance), I will watch every
remaining episode. Reviews? I don't need no stinkin' reviews.
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> jha...@home.com (John Hammel) wrote:
>
>
>
> <Spoiler Space>
>
>
>
>
> <Spoiler Space>
>
>
>
>
> <Spoiler Space>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >As far as Crusade bashers are concerned, I would point out that Crusade
was only a part of the B5
> >universe, but not a necessarily familar part. Watching the episodes in
order on Sci-Fi, bless
> >them, makes me wish even more for a continuance. The characters were
developing, always important
> >in the B5 universe, and the main plotline was just beginning to gel.
Given a real chance it would
> >have been wonderful.
> >
>
> Having read the scripts of the two unfilmed episodes while they were
> available on the Web
There were more than two unfilmed episodes, the two available for a short
time for viewing-only on Bookface, and Fiona Avery's script (Value
Judgements, which I bought from her). Then there were the three episodes of
the Dureena arc (her quest, and how she got a sword), but I don't think they
were ever available anywhere. I think "Tried and True" was the title of one
of the Dureena arc episodes.
> before this latest round of rewatching the released
> episode, I can say that there is more going on in some of those episodes
> than originally met the eye.
>
>
> At the end of the episode where Galen tricks Gideon into finding the
> place where he left his girlfriend's ashes, he makes a promise to
> Gideon. In the unfilmed season finale, he keeps it, against his own
> best interests. WOW!
While I don't doubt this, I'm having a hard time remembering it, and don't
remember if it was in To the Ends of the Earth (Ep. 14), or End of the Line
(Ep.22).
> Then there is the episode with the mind healer in a sealed bubble. The
> section about Gideon's witnessing of his former ship's destruction was
> more than just background. The mystery ship that destroyed it plays a
> BIG role in the season ending (both of the unfilmed episodes involved
> that ship).
>
> I am REALLY unhappy at the series being canceled now. Crusade, while
> different than B5, had the same sorts of subtle intertwining threads.
Same here. I've been really unhappy about Crusade being cancelled for a
long time.
>
> [OK, so I cannot remember episode titles].
To the Ends of the Earth
End of the Line
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Kass" <jonath...@mediaone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> what an excellent example of what this show can be - one of the truly
> shining brilliant moments of one of the truly shining brilliant episodes
of
> the entire series - saw that clip at a couple of cons back when the show
was
> airing, it always brought people to their feet cheering... and one of the
> greatest quotable speeches in the entire series as well (If you value your
> lives, Be Somewhere Else - just wonderful...
That one, combined with the music, is extremely powerful. There are quite a
few such moments in B5.
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "LK" <founta...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> There's an incredible difference between a close friend [paraphrasing]
> saying, "Your exhaustion and war wounds were slipping through and you
> needed a break, " and telling someone they aren't capable of working
> again in their own universe. It sounds like you keep suggesting that
> JMS "sell" B5 universe to "new blood." Kinda like telling an
> overworked parent someone else needs to permanently take over rearing
> the children for them because they've been through rough times for
> awhile, and though things are still busy and life's easier now...well,
> you didn't do "good enough" back then so you can't be trusted to do
> good enough in the present or in the future.
>
> In both cases the "well meaning" concern and the advice is lousy and
> isn't worth the waste of oxygen used to speak it or the strokes of
> engery on the keyboard.
>
> LK
> Who has heard similar advice myself about a variety of projects and I
> perservered and suceeded, while those "concerned" people have faded
> into the past and remain stuck in their timid roles of finding others
> they can pretend to support while they offer affection and loyalty
> with the back of a hand.
Very well said!
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ross" <aba...@attglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:50:09 -0400, "Jonathan Frain"
> <jonf...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> > [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
> > [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
> > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
> >
> >SPOILERS
> >
> >
>
> >If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
> >shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
> >easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
>
> Excuse me, if the Shadows didn't 'look like insects' then what the
> hell did they look like?
Where's your smiley? We're talking metaphorically, not literally.
> Mike
> http://www.corestore.org
> Rangers Catering Corps - 'we boil for the One, we fry for the One'
Stop. You're making me hungry. :-)
LK
<macb...@access995.com> wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jonathan Frain" <jonf...@mediaone.net>
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
>Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:36 PM
>Subject: RE: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
[snip]
>> I don't think they'd inspire as much
>> fear as being stuck alone with an angry narn.
>
>I disagree. With an angry Narn, you'd likely die quickly. A Drakh would
>likely torture you for days, weeks, or years before you were killed. The
>Drakh have access to shadowtech (keepers, etc.), and other shadow allies
>(the surgeons, the soldiers of darkness). Hell, the Drakh would probably
>take you slowly and painfully to the edge of death, and then heal you, only
>so he could take you slowly and painfully to the edge of death, over and
>over again. I'd prefer the Narn. It'd be quicker, and more straightforward.
Isn't this a form of racial or speices predjudice? Just because a
Narn is angry, that doesn't mean you are the target of their anger
nor does it mean they can't control themselves.
Unless you are usable by the Drakh they don't bother with you. They
seek to become masters and if you kill all the servants you have no
one to master. Plus not everyone is willing to sacrifice their
individual self for the good of the many i.e., fear, intimidation, and
torture has worked on human prisoners of war and political prisoners
and victims of domestic violence. IOW you do not need to threaten
loved one and friend to get fear and obidience.
If that's too much of a stretch think back to when you were bullied by
a bigger kid or intimidated by a coach.
I am so surprised some people e.g., J F want bigger and badder aliens
to shake their bones, while totally forgetting being human. In
person, at the scene, in real time is a helluva lot different than
insulated by a book or a TV. IOW open your eyes and your mind and
feel, empathize, sympathize, pay attention and stop demanding
artifical terror. ...Remember the news, real life? Don't demand
fiction scare you or move your heart more than reality. That's not
why fiction exsists.
That's why music exsists ;->
LK
LK
<macb...@access995.com> wrote:
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>
>Thanks. That's what a lot of us have suspected over at the Rangers
>Discussion page at b5lr.com. Some of us are trying to keep things on a
>positive note, but it's tough when the downer is in the thread title, and
>that doesn't go away (scroll or get modified).
>
>Mac Breck
>------------------------
I thought it dignified a sound "Ingnore," but since J F is
peristing...
to be continued in another response in this thread.
LK
LK
<je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>"Jms at B5" <jms...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20011018031452...@mb-ma.aol.com...
>> Look, how about we actually *see* the thing?
>
>Honestly, perhaps sadly, that's not enough. Some people simply don't have the
>time to watch everything on TV without some promise that it'll be worth the
>time, hence the need for (p)reviewers.
Promise? Not everybody likes the same thing, so how can anyone
promise it will be worth the time?
Big difference between review and critque and trashing something.
For some reason this reminds me of years ago when a Seattle Times
newspaper reviewer attended a concert by the rock group Heart and the
reviewer glossed over the music and seem to spend paragraphs harping
about how much lead singer Ann Wilson weighed at the time. A lot of
great singers are not svelt figures and it has little to do with their
with singing ability. But the reviewer seemed to be looking for
something to complain about it and was bored by having to sit through
the show and offended because Wilson didn't come over as his version
of a sexy rock singer. The reviewer even complained her weight
distracted him from the music and the show. Not professional behavior
on his part.
On top of everything else one could spend as much time reading all or
many reviews of something in order to find out if it worth you time to
actually watch; for that amount of time you might as well watch the
show or record it watch later when you do have the time.
LK
Adam Canning
macb...@access995.com says...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Frain" <jonf...@mediaone.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:36 PM
> Subject: RE: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
>
>> The character of Matheson was portrayed subtly and
>> quite well in my opinion.
>I agree, *especially* in The Needs of Earth.
Only missed opportunity with him was the lack of a Yamato reference.
Of the crew he or Eilerson would be the best one for such I suspect.
Adam
John W. Kennedy
> Jesus, Jonathan, get a grip and use a little critical thinking once in a
> while....
>
>
> (jms...@aol.com)
> (all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
> permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
> and don't send me story ideas)
On USENET? Ha! Try checking out
news:humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare -- half the regular posters
there are actually certifiable. (I often mention you there, by the way,
as an example of What Writers Are Actually Like, as opposed to What
Demented Conspiracy Theorists Think The Author Of Shakespeare's Plays
Must Have Been Like, i.e., a handsome, brooding, upper-class playboy.)
I must confess that there's a moment in the second LotR trailer that
gives me a certain shivery sense that I'm looking at "Babylon's Creek"
-- but then I think, "JMS? Doing a WB-style teen-angst show?
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-hahhhh!", take a Bromo, and feel better.
Roll on, January.
--
John W. Kennedy
(If they had taught Ernie Pyle in high school English,
I'd feel better about American Lit)
Jeff Vavasour
news:pnk0tt8fe9cc7t3f9...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:10:22 GMT, "Jeff Vavasour"
> <je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
> >Honestly, perhaps sadly, that's not enough. Some people simply don't have
the
> >time to watch everything on TV without some promise that it'll be worth the
> >time, hence the need for (p)reviewers.
>
> Promise? Not everybody likes the same thing, so how can anyone
> promise it will be worth the time?
You misunderstood. Promise as in "showing promise" not "giving a promise".
(From dictionary.com, def. 3: "Indication of future excellence or success: a
player of great promise.")
Re: not everyone liking the same thing, that's why you find shop around until
you find a reviewer whose taste seems consistent with your own.
- Jeff
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Canning" <da...@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Alright, WHOOSH, I'm missing this one. Yamato? Referring to what, the
Japanese Admiral in WWII, the Japanese WWII battleship, Conspiracy or
Contagion (the TNG episodes)?
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "LK" <founta...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
What? No, it is assumed that both the Drakh and the Narn were out to get
you for some reason. I'm saying that the comparitively speaking, the Narn
would be more direct and less likely to put you through Hell. I know,
you're thinking of Tupari and what he did to G'Kar. Look at what the
Shivkala did to Londo over the course of years.
> Unless you are usable by the Drakh they don't bother with you.
They'd likely use you for something. They are very resourceful and devious.
Even G'Kar in the early days was not nearly so devious.
> They
> seek to become masters and if you kill all the servants you have no
> one to master.
Some servents are expendable. Remember the Centauri miners?
> Plus not everyone is willing to sacrifice their
> individual self for the good of the many i.e., fear, intimidation, and
> torture has worked on human prisoners of war and political prisoners
> and victims of domestic violence. IOW you do not need to threaten
> loved one and friend to get fear and obidience.
The Drakh, at least some of them, appear to be masters of torture.
> If that's too much of a stretch think back to when you were bullied by
> a bigger kid or intimidated by a coach.
>
> I am so surprised some people e.g., J F want bigger and badder aliens
> to shake their bones, while totally forgetting being human. In
> person, at the scene, in real time is a helluva lot different than
> insulated by a book or a TV. IOW open your eyes and your mind and
> feel, empathize, sympathize, pay attention and stop demanding
> artifical terror. ...Remember the news, real life? Don't demand
> fiction scare you or move your heart more than reality. That's not
> why fiction exsists.
Fiction is a release.
Pål Are Nordal
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Jeff Vavasour wrote:
>
> It then got turned over to Dave
> "El Cosmico" Alvarado who was also a B5 devotee,
You sure about that? I'm recalling multiple "I don't really care for the
show, but here's some news because you guys seem so excited about it."
He was the reason I stopped visiting the site.
--
Run a screensaver that helps cancer research: http://www.ud.com/
(and join the "Excalibur" team)
Pål Are Nordal
dr...@spamcop.net
Brian Stinson
damn good, because I thought Crusade was great.
Stanley Friesen
>
>There were more than two unfilmed episodes, the two available for a short
>time for viewing-only on Bookface,
Those are the two I was talking about, and that is where I read them.
I never meant to imply these were the only two unfilmed episodes that
*existed*, only that they were the two that were (at least temporarily)
available publicly.
>and Fiona Avery's script (Value
>Judgements, which I bought from her).
However, if this one has been published in any sense, I would have to
revise my statement.
<Spoiler Space>
<Spoiler Space>
<Spoiler Space>
>
>> before this latest round of rewatching the released
>> episode, I can say that there is more going on in some of those episodes
>> than originally met the eye.
>>
>>
>> At the end of the episode where Galen tricks Gideon into finding the
>> place where he left his girlfriend's ashes, he makes a promise to
>> Gideon. In the unfilmed season finale, he keeps it, against his own
>> best interests. WOW!
>
>While I don't doubt this, I'm having a hard time remembering it, and don't
>remember if it was in To the Ends of the Earth (Ep. 14), or End of the Line
>(Ep.22).
Note, I am not sure the promise was *explicitly* mentioned - it is just
that it forms part of the character background that helps explain
Galen's actions.
As to which episode, I kinda thought it was Ep. 22 where Galen helped
Gideon scout the base from which the mystery ship came - leading to
Gideon's discovery of the source of the technomage's tech.
[Major Spoiler]
[The whole bit of Gideon allowing himself to be captured, with Galen as
the pre-planned escape hatch was a real classic - it really caught me by
surprise].
>
>Same here. I've been really unhappy about Crusade being cancelled for a
>long time.
And it keeps getting *stronger*.
Sigh.
One thing I liked about "To the Ends of the Earth" and "The End of the
Line" is that they revealed that the story of Crusade wasn't "really"
about the search for the cure, but actually about something else.
LK
<je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>"LK" <founta...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:pnk0tt8fe9cc7t3f9...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:10:22 GMT, "Jeff Vavasour"
>> <je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>> >Honestly, perhaps sadly, that's not enough. Some people simply don't have
>the
>> >time to watch everything on TV without some promise that it'll be worth the
>> >time, hence the need for (p)reviewers.
>>
>> Promise? Not everybody likes the same thing, so how can anyone
>> promise it will be worth the time?
>
>You misunderstood. Promise as in "showing promise" not "giving a promise".
>(From dictionary.com, def. 3: "Indication of future excellence or success: a
>player of great promise.")
>
>Re: not everyone liking the same thing, that's why you find shop around until
>you find a reviewer whose taste seems consistent with your own.
>
>- Jeff
"Shop for a reviewer?" You begrude the time to actually watch a TV
show but you're willing to shop around for a reviewer?
Ah, the days of leisure and boredom. " Well, honey, I'm off for a few
days to find a reviewer whose tastes seem consistant with my own.
Sure I hope I find one. Theses little excursions are cutting into my
bridge time."
I can think of 20 different things I'd rather spend my unpaid time on.
Like recording "Mystery Science Theater 3K" for my son who doesn't
have cable TV and gives me sit down time to finish the quilt for his
Christmas gift.
LK
Mike Ross
<macb...@access995.com> wrote:
> [ The following text is in the "Windows-1252" character set. ]
> [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
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>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Ross" <aba...@attglobal.net>
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
>Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 10:48 PM
>Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
>
>
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:50:09 -0400, "Jonathan Frain"
>> <jonf...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>>
>> > [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
>> > [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
>> > [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>> >
>> >SPOILERS
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
>> >shadows "look like insects", then they sure as hell had better not be as
>> >easy to kill as the reviewer states they are.
>>
>> Excuse me, if the Shadows didn't 'look like insects' then what the
>> hell did they look like?
>
>Where's your smiley? We're talking metaphorically, not literally.
Grrrrrr it fell off. Point I was trying to make was that it isn't a
very good analogy to use - makes one wonder if the reviwer had ever
actually *seen* a Shadow!
LK
<macb...@access995.com> wrote:
Well, I wasn't, but the context seemed lacking like a form of racial
profiling. I agree the Londo situation.
>
>> Unless you are usable by the Drakh they don't bother with you.
>
>They'd likely use you for something. They are very resourceful and devious.
>Even G'Kar in the early days was not nearly so devious.
To me it didn't seem as "devious" as thoroughly efficent i.e., "In
what way can we get blood out of turnips and bioengineering is an
option?"
>
>> They
>> seek to become masters and if you kill all the servants you have no
>> one to master.
>
>Some servents are expendable. Remember the Centauri miners?
Yes.
>
>> Plus not everyone is willing to sacrifice their
>> individual self for the good of the many i.e., fear, intimidation, and
>> torture has worked on human prisoners of war and political prisoners
>> and victims of domestic violence. IOW you do not need to threaten
>> loved one and friend to get fear and obidience.
>
>The Drakh, at least some of them, appear to be masters of torture.
So are some book clubs when their records indicte you never paid them
and they are right becasue you returned to the book to them 3 months
ago saying "No thanks," and have no proof that you returned the book.
>
>> If that's too much of a stretch think back to when you were bullied by
>> a bigger kid or intimidated by a coach.
>>
>> I am so surprised some people e.g., J F want bigger and badder aliens
>> to shake their bones, while totally forgetting being human. In
>> person, at the scene, in real time is a helluva lot different than
>> insulated by a book or a TV. IOW open your eyes and your mind and
>> feel, empathize, sympathize, pay attention and stop demanding
>> artifical terror. ...Remember the news, real life? Don't demand
>> fiction scare you or move your heart more than reality. That's not
>> why fiction exsists.
>
>Fiction is a release.
For me it's more like adventure and joy in words. Music is expression
and release.
LK
Mac Breck
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> "Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> wrote:
> >
> >There were more than two unfilmed episodes, the two available for a short
> >time for viewing-only on Bookface,
>
> Those are the two I was talking about, and that is where I read them.
>
> I never meant to imply these were the only two unfilmed episodes that
> *existed*, only that they were the two that were (at least temporarily)
> available publicly.
>
> >and Fiona Avery's script (Value
> >Judgements, which I bought from her).
>
> However, if this one has been published in any sense, I would have to
> revise my statement.
Value Judgements was available to the public at Scripts from the Lot
http://www.sff.net/people/chris-tsirbas/sftl.html
when that site was up. I filled out the order form, requested that Fiona
autograph them, sent her the filled-out order form with a check, and got my
signed copies of Value Judgements, The Well of Forever, and Patterns of the
Soul, about two weeks later.
Yes, it keeps getting stronger with each novel of the Centauri Prime and
Technomage trilogies that I read. It's too bad we can't have the all the
trilogy novels turned into theatrical movies (maybe not on a 1 novel to 1
movie basis, but you get the idea). Just imagine that!
> One thing I liked about "To the Ends of the Earth" and "The End of the
> Line" is that they revealed that the story of Crusade wasn't "really"
> about the search for the cure, but actually about something else.
Kinda makes me wonder what the second season opening theme would have said.
Hopefully, we'll all see it some day.
Laura Appelbaum
news:002501c158d0$7ac1d610$3fd5c997@MACBRECK...
> > Only missed opportunity with him was the lack of a Yamato reference.
> Alright, WHOOSH, I'm missing this one. Yamato? Referring to what, the
> Japanese Admiral in WWII, the Japanese WWII battleship, Conspiracy or
> Contagion (the TNG episodes)?
As in "Starship Yamato" as in "Star Blazers." As in the "Wave Motion
Gun" -- the big honking weapon that knocks out all the systems in your ship
when you use it.
It's one thing when a conceit that stupid appears in a '70s bubblegum anime.
It's another when a show thirty years later purporting to be for adults
presents the same nonsense and expects anyone to take it seriously.
LMA
Patrick MARCEL
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Le 20/10/01 15:38, Mike Ross a écrit :
>>>> If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make the
>>>> shadows "look like insects"
>>> Excuse me, if the Shadows didn't 'look like insects' then what the
>>> hell did they look like?
>> Where's your smiley? We're talking metaphorically, not literally.
> Grrrrrr it fell off. Point I was trying to make was that it isn't a
> very good analogy to use
Harkens back to the catchphrase on the poster of MONTY PYTHON - HOLY GRAIL!:
"The film that makes BEN-HUR look like an epic!"
Patrick
--
Reason is only a drug, and its effects cannot be permanent.
- Hope Mirrlees -
Jeff Vavasour
> "Shop for a reviewer?" You begrude the time to actually watch a TV
> show but you're willing to shop around for a reviewer?
It's not like it's a major engagement. You just glance at a review of
something that you were going to watch anyway to see if they're consistent
with what you thought of the show. If not, next time pick a different
reviewer and try again. Two minutes, tops.
Alternatively, sometimes I read spoiler sites on iffy shows. Back to AICN, it
takes a couple minutes to read Herc's synopsis of a 45-minute episode of
Enterprise, and has been enough *despite his unrestrained endorsement of the
show* for me to be convinced that I don't want to watch it. (Actually,
practically, I guess I also read reviews which aren't consistent with my
tastes, but I know enough about the reviewer's biases to re-interpret.)
Both exercises are not much more involved than reading TV Guide.
> Ah, the days of leisure and boredom.
I do this because I don't have time to watch TV. I've committed to watching
about two hours a week and that's it. This way is faster.
In fact, I'm spending more time replying to this thread than I would reading
reviews. (Three replies, incidentally.) At least reading, being online, etc.
is less dissatisfying to do in starts and stops.
- Jeff
Herranen Henrik
> OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
> Crusade?
Thirdspace was all wrong, and The River of Souls was boring.
Want specifics? I'll take only Thirdspace:
- The HyperSpaceThingie (HST) is brought very close to Babylon 5
although it can be anything, including a weapon
- Lyta scribbling "There is danger". A very stupid way for the
Vorlons to program a telepath.
- Sheridan practically _knows_ that Trent is up to no good, and
does nothing.
- The ever-lasting Zack and Lyta scene, where the lift is fully
lit and it is impossible for Zack from his watching angle
_not_ to notice that Lyta is mumbling all the time. The whole
scene is just embarrassing in a way that only the steam gun
and parts of Infection are.
- After Lyta almost destroys the potentially very valuable HST,
she is not arrested. Sheridan's ridiculous "due process" speech
have no resemblence to the things that happened.
- Sheridan knows that Trent is hiding many things and lying, and
still doesn't take her off the case.
- The 3Space aliens are "pure evil" who "hate all life". Yeah.
- Draal is never called. It's only the end of the known universe,
so why disturb him?
- After everything, Trent is only given a mild verbal reprimand.
- And nobody ever talked about it again. Ever. Not even when they
remember the most dangerous situations of the past year in the
5th season.
My conclusion is that Turdspace is something that accidentally
got switched with something that came from an alternate universe
where Trek stories are engaging and interesting and where Babylon
5 is the great franchise that has one lame and predictable story
after another.
(And yes, I did take my B5 portion today. After a long pause looked
at three season 1 episodes on LD.)
- Henrik
--
Blib
Richard Tibbetts
[...]
Oh no! Joe said "fanboy", twice! Everybody in the fish tank and
sing....
>Look, how about we actually *see* the thing?
But *when* in the UK?? Tomorrow's fine by me ;-)
--
Richard Tibbetts
http://www.primepeace.ltd.uk/
Jeff Vavasour
news:tt3ma4c...@corp.supernews.com...
> the big honking weapon that knocks out all the systems in your ship
> when you use it.
> It's one thing when a conceit that stupid appears in a '70s bubblegum anime.
> It's another when a show thirty years later purporting to be for adults
> presents the same nonsense and expects anyone to take it seriously.
YMMV. There are much more naive things done in sci-fi than that. Relatively
speaking, I don't think the "big gun" is a big deal.
- Jeff
Mac Breck
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Appelbaum" <l-app...@mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> "Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> wrote in message
> news:002501c158d0$7ac1d610$3fd5c997@MACBRECK...
>
> > > Only missed opportunity with him was the lack of a Yamato reference.
>
> > Alright, WHOOSH, I'm missing this one. Yamato? Referring to what, the
> > Japanese Admiral in WWII, the Japanese WWII battleship, Conspiracy or
> > Contagion (the TNG episodes)?
>
> As in "Starship Yamato" as in "Star Blazers." As in the "Wave Motion
> Gun" -- the big honking weapon that knocks out all the systems in your
ship
> when you use it.
OK, never saw that. Never have been a fan of anime, at all. You're
referring to the Excalibur's main gun. I was looking for a Matheson
connection in The Needs of Earth, and the main gun wasn't used in that ep.
Don't recall it being discussed in that ep. either.
> It's one thing when a conceit that stupid appears in a '70s bubblegum
anime.
> It's another when a show thirty years later purporting to be for adults
> presents the same nonsense and expects anyone to take it seriously.
Well, JMS can't exactly have the Excalibur going around with a fully fledged
Vorlon beam weapon (exactly as seen used by Vorlon transports and
battleships). After all, what would be the challenge? He had to put *some*
limits on it's use (~1.5 seconds per shot with a 60 second recharge time).
I do wish the limits would have been *less drastic* though. I remember a
certain Vorlon battleship using it's beam as a slicer (Deathwalker), though
with only a 1.5 second duration, the Excalibur's weapon couldn't be anything
other than a direct shot kind of thing.
It is absolutely stupid how Sheridan used the main gun in "A Call to Arms"
(firing while still in motion toward the null field), and how Gideon used it
in "Racing the Night" (in that gravametric field).
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick MARCEL" <mant...@wanadoo.fr>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
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Le 20/10/01 15:38, Mike Ross a écrit :
>>>> If the new aliens are described as being so powerfull that they make
the
>>>> shadows "look like insects"
>>> Excuse me, if the Shadows didn't 'look like insects' then what the
>>> hell did they look like?
>> Where's your smiley? We're talking metaphorically, not literally.
> Grrrrrr it fell off. Point I was trying to make was that it isn't a
> very good analogy to use
Harkens back to the catchphrase on the poster of MONTY PYTHON - HOLY GRAIL!:
"The film that makes BEN-HUR look like an epic!"
...but was the reviewer trying to *be* funny?
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Herranen Henrik" <leo...@assari.cc.tut.fi>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> "Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> writes:
> > OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
> > Crusade?
>
> Thirdspace was all wrong, and The River of Souls was boring.
>
> Want specifics? I'll take only Thirdspace:
> - The HyperSpaceThingie (HST) is brought very close to Babylon 5
> although it can be anything, including a weapon
Didn't appear to be all that close to the station, to me.
> - Lyta scribbling "There is danger". A very stupid way for the
> Vorlons to program a telepath.
Well, the artifact was interfering with her. It could have been more than
just her Vorlon programming that was causing her to act like that. Maybe,
that was a combination of the effects of the artifact *and* her Vorlon
programming. She clearly wasn't herself for a good deal of the time, until
the artifact was destroyed.
> - Sheridan practically _knows_ that Trent is up to no good, and
> does nothing.
Well, Sheridan sometimes does stupid things. (Just look at A Call to Arms,
firing the main guns while he's still moving toward the null field.)
> - The ever-lasting Zack and Lyta scene, where the lift is fully
> lit and it is impossible for Zack from his watching angle
> _not_ to notice that Lyta is mumbling all the time. The whole
> scene is just embarrassing in a way that only the steam gun
> and parts of Infection are.
He doesn't know if she might not be preoccupied with something else, or
maybe she's not taking him seriously. He clearly thinks that he's no big
catch for her, and is really self-depricating here. He probably doesn't
want to look too close. It *is* an awkward situation for him, and he's kind
of shy when it comes to Lyta. Who wouldn't be, asking the Red-Haired
Goddess for a date? :-)
> - After Lyta almost destroys the potentially very valuable HST,
> she is not arrested. Sheridan's ridiculous "due process" speech
> have no resemblence to the things that happened.
Well, he doesn't want to give in to Trent, and would protect one of his own
from her. Lyta's saved his butt how many times? He probably suspects
there's a good "Vorlon" reason for what Lyta tried to do. Granted, Sheridan
protecting Lyta is highly uncharacteristic of him, especially since
Thirdspace takes place after Epiphanies
(http://www.dscga.com/lurk/guide/073.html).
> - Sheridan knows that Trent is hiding many things and lying, and
> still doesn't take her off the case.
Who does he have to put *on* the case? Himself? He's not qualified.
> - The 3Space aliens are "pure evil" who "hate all life". Yeah.
Hate all life **that is not like their own**. Yeah, we've *never* run
across *anybody* like that.<s> Bester-to-mundanes, Nightwatch-to-all
non-humans, Osama Bin Laden-to-The West, Hitler-to-the Jews, etc.).
> - Draal is never called. It's only the end of the known universe,
> so why disturb him?
Draal's link with the Great Machine is to a certain extent telepathic
(Remember what he said to Susan as she was removing herself from the
machine?). The artifact amplified the Thirdspace aliens' telepathic powers,
and allowed them to control some of the **Vorlons**. Therefore, the
artifact may be affecting Draal. It may *also* be jamming B5's
communications.
> - After everything, Trent is only given a mild verbal reprimand.
Well, she *was* under the influence of the artifact, as were a *lot* of
people.
> - And nobody ever talked about it again. Ever. Not even when they
> remember the most dangerous situations of the past year in the
> 5th season.
Now I sort of agree with this. It just rings false that there aren't more
links from the B5 episodes to Thirdspace. It's too much of a free-floating
standalone, not very well anchored to the episodes. It "could" *only* be
mentioned in episodes or movies shot *after* Thirdspace. However, where
would they drop in the references, and why? It would *have* to make sense
to mention it in an episode (a reason the episode needed it), in *addition*
to providing a link for Thirdspace.
> My conclusion is that Turdspace is something that accidentally
> got switched with something that came from an alternate universe
> where Trek stories are engaging and interesting and where Babylon
> 5 is the great franchise that has one lame and predictable story
> after another.
My conclusion is that you're overlooking the above explanations, and want to
elevate yourself by denigrating somebody else's work.
Jeff Teunissen
spoiler space
Stanley Friesen wrote:
[snip]
> Delenn: "Only one human has defeated a Minbari warship, he is behind me,
> you are in front of me."
> [I think I got that a bit wrong - sigh].
"Only one human captain has survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind
me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else."
> Chilling.
Indeed.
--
| Jeff Teunissen -=- Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing -=- deek @ d2dc.net
| GPG: 1024D/9840105A 7102 808A 7733 C2F3 097B 161B 9222 DAB8 9840 105A
| Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/
| Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://www.d2dc.net/~deek/
Adam Canning
macb...@access995.com says...
> [ The following text is in the "Windows-1252" character set. ]
> [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
> [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Canning" <da...@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
>
>
> > In article <005b01c158a1$fb97c0d0$2bd5c997@MACBRECK>,
> > macb...@access995.com says...
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jonathan Frain" <jonf...@mediaone.net>
> > > Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:36 PM
> > > Subject: RE: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> > >
> >
> >
> > >> The character of Matheson was portrayed subtly and
> > >> quite well in my opinion.
> >
> > >I agree, *especially* in The Needs of Earth.
> >
> > Only missed opportunity with him was the lack of a Yamato reference.
> >
> > Of the crew he or Eilerson would be the best one for such I suspect.
>
> Alright, WHOOSH, I'm missing this one. Yamato? Referring to what, the
> Japanese Admiral in WWII, the Japanese WWII battleship, Conspiracy or
> Contagion (the TNG episodes)?
>
Consider the following description
The most advanced ship in the Human fleet constructed with advanced alien
technologies including a new drive system and a giant spinal weapon that
shuts almost all power on the ship down when it is fired. The ship is
sent on a long range and time limited mission to acquire alien technology
that might prevent all life on earth from being destroyed. Along the way
it destroys multiple squadrons of enemy ships and encounters strange and
exotic alien worlds, while suffering from tension among its senior
mission personnel.
Is it
A] the EarthForce Destroyer Excalibur with only 5 years to look for a
cure for the Drahk Virus
or
B] EDF Space Battlecruiser Yamato with only a year to do the run to
Iscandar for the Cosmic DNA. [Which was supposedly built from the hull of
the original IJN Yamato]
or
C] EDFS Yamato renamed Argo for American consumption.
Of course the Yamato/Argo does get to blow away a Gamilion squadron,
who've been reading the history tapes and who replicate the American
attack on its previous version, as well as win a Gamilion replay of
Midway.
But first they have to do Gun on Ice Planet Zero/Cylon Death Machine so
the Galactica will know what to do.
Adam
--
1 point for either A or B, no points for C.
LK
<je...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
>I do this because I don't have time to watch TV. I've committed to watching
>about two hours a week and that's it. This way is faster.
>
>In fact, I'm spending more time replying to this thread than I would reading
>reviews. (Three replies, incidentally.) At least reading, being online, etc.
>is less dissatisfying to do in starts and stops.
>
>- Jeff
>
Not with the problems I've having with too many ads that pop-up. Most
sites I've seen with reviews are like billboard heaven.
LK
LK
<leo...@assari.cc.tut.fi> wrote:
>"Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> writes:
>> OK, what was wrong with Thirdspace, The River of Souls, and "especially"
>> Crusade?
>
>Thirdspace was all wrong, and The River of Souls was boring.
>- The ever-lasting Zack and Lyta scene, where the lift is fully
> lit and it is impossible for Zack from his watching angle
> _not_ to notice that Lyta is mumbling all the time. The whole
> scene is just embarrassing in a way that only the steam gun
> and parts of Infection are.
It's embarrassing because it hits too close home. That's why it is
good. Zack is determined to get his speech out, so he is focused
inward on steeling himself to get through it. If he lookes at her,
he'll chicken out and he's afraid he may never get the courage again.
And he's so focused on his own discomfort he doesn't notice what's
really going on with her. (Of course, he hasn't seen her acting
strange before this so he no reason to suspect something is wrong with
her.)
It's a great scene. It is well written and well acted.
I think it's the highlight of "Thirdspace" and a good example of real
feeling, real love, and nailing one's feet to the floor. Declarations
like that can be just as hard as telling someone another relationship
is over.
LK
Mac Breck
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "LK" <founta...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
That would be billboard hell, right? :-)
I guess it just depends on your perspective.
Mac Breck
OK, vaguely recall seeing the PC game (B) but never bought it or got closer
than a few feet to the box . Saw it, browsing fast, at a PC show about 6
months ago.
I quit playing PC games when I installed Windows 2000 (NT5). Although, I
may have to buy a new PC to run the new B5 games. I'm currently using a 4
year old Pentium II 266, 128MB RAM (the max limit), and expanded about as
far as it can go.
Mac Breck
----- Original Message -----
> > - The ever-lasting Zack and Lyta scene, where the lift is fully
> > lit and it is impossible for Zack from his watching angle
> > _not_ to notice that Lyta is mumbling all the time. The whole
> > scene is just embarrassing in a way that only the steam gun
> > and parts of Infection are.
>
> He doesn't know if she might not be preoccupied with something else, or
> maybe she's not taking him seriously. He clearly thinks that he's no big
> catch for her, and is really self-deprecating here. He probably doesn't
> want to look too close. It *is* an awkward situation for him, and he's
kind
> of shy when it comes to Lyta. Who wouldn't be, asking the Red-Haired
> Goddess for a date? :-)
Wait a minute, he was almost proposing. If not marriage, at the very least,
he was going for a long-term monogamous relationship. Yeah, I could see him
being nervous, and anticipating the dreaded, "like you like a friend or
brother" speech. Ouch!
Pål Are Nordal
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Herranen Henrik wrote:
>
> - Draal is never called. It's only the end of the known universe,
> so why disturb him?
1. He's sitting on one of the most advanced information gathering
devices in the series. Do you think he *needs* to be called? I'd say he
was doing what he could off screen.
2. And just how much did you expect him to do? The great machine is
*not* a weapon. It's an information gathering device with some self
defence mechanisms.
We've seen it fire atmospheric missiles, *one* shadowship like beam, and
knock out the power of moderately advanced ships in it's vicinity. Even
if the battle was within range, that would hardly change the scales much.
Herranen Henrik
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"Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> writes:
> > - And nobody ever talked about it again. Ever. Not even when they
> > remember the most dangerous situations of the past year in the
> > 5th season.
> Now I sort of agree with this. It just rings false that there aren't more
> links from the B5 episodes to Thirdspace. It's too much of a free-floating
> standalone, not very well anchored to the episodes. It "could" *only* be
> mentioned in episodes or movies shot *after* Thirdspace. However, where
> would they drop in the references, and why? It would *have* to make sense
> to mention it in an episode (a reason the episode needed it), in *addition*
> to providing a link for Thirdspace.
Haven't watched the 5th season episodes for a while, but there is a
scene where they remember all the incidents where lots of Whitestars
were lost. Some squirmishes smaller than Thirdspace are mentioned,
and that would have been a perfectly good time to mention it. Actually,
it _should_ have been mentioned, because it was the biggest danger to
the universe ever. (And yes, 5th season was shot _after_ Thirdspace.)
And as said, not even mentioning Draal or trying to contact him is
such a cardinal sin. Never would his help have been more needed. Even
mentioning that "We cannot connect to Draal due to X" would have
sufficed to some extent.
> My conclusion is that you're overlooking the above explanations, and want to
> elevate yourself by denigrating somebody else's work.
Well, your conclusion couldn't be much further from the truth. Please
read and UNDERSTAND the following text so that you won't make this
claim again.
I love Babylon 5. I leaned on the national Finnish broadcasting company
Yleisradio for years to get the show on the air. I subtitled four
episodes (with an Amiga program I wrote myself) in Finnish during the
3rd season's longest break and (with a help from friends) send them
to Yleisradio. Never done that before or after. Also, do notice that
I had already seen all episodes broadcast in the US, so I didn't do
this all for myself.
When we finally got Babylon 5 on the air (I never knew if my campaign
helped with it, but who cares?), I founded Finland's second moderated
newsgroup ever, sfnet.viestinta.tv.babylon5. You may try to make a
guess what that newsgroup was about. It was founded when I thought
the unmoderated group was getting a bit thick with intentional spoilers
by some nasty individuals.
All in all, claiming that I say Thirdspace is bad only because I want
to denigrate JMS's work, is utter and pure crap. Sorry to be this
blunt, but that's how it is.
In yet another words:
Most of Babylon 5 varies from good to great, sometimes pure
genius. I've never been so excited afront my TV tube than when
watching stories like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Z'ha'dum",
and "The Long, Twilight Struggle". Nevertheless, this doesn't
utomatically make anything that have the "Babylon 5" stamp on it
infallible and great. In my opinion, Thirdspace should never
have been done. It's outright stupid.
Now I've come full circle, so I can stop.
- Henrik
--
Lässyn lässyn ja mussun mussun
AndrSwllw
<macb...@access995.com> writes:
>
>Well, he doesn't want to give in to Trent, and would protect one of his own
>from her. Lyta's saved his butt how many times? He probably suspects
>there's a good "Vorlon" reason for what Lyta tried to do. Granted, Sheridan
>protecting Lyta is highly uncharacteristic of him, especially since
>Thirdspace takes place after Epiphanies
>(http://www.dscga.com/lurk/guide/073.html).
>
>
Sheridan protected Lyta in Epiphanies - he waited until Bester was
out of the way before telling her off. This meant that Psi Corps
could not claim her.
Sheridan spotted that Z'Ha'Dum was about to explode too quickly,
had he felt Lyta's strong transmissions? She may have hidden
the psi transmissions from Bester but I suspect that she did not
bother when dealing with people she thought were mundanes.
Andrew Swallow
Adam Canning
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Canning" <da...@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:55 AM
> Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
>> B] EDF Space Battlecruiser Yamato with only a year to do the run to
>> Iscandar for the Cosmic DNA. [Which was supposedly built from the hull
>> of the original IJN Yamato]
>>
>> or
>>
>> C] EDFS Yamato renamed Argo for American consumption.
>>
>>
>> Of course the Yamato/Argo does get to blow away a Gamilion squadron,
>> who've been reading the history tapes and who replicate the American
>> attack on its previous version, as well as win a Gamilion replay of
>> Midway.
>> But first they have to do Gun on Ice Planet Zero/Cylon Death Machine
>> so the Galactica will know what to do.
> OK, vaguely recall seeing the PC game (B) but never bought it or got closer
> than a few feet to the box . Saw it, browsing fast, at a PC show about 6
> months ago.
Mostly actually the Anime, which is one of the Great Japanese Anime
series along with Macross and GUNDAM [I saw SBC Yamato while I was young
in Japanese with Chinese subtitles, so it was years before I understood
it.]
Starblazers [The US translation] seems to loose some of the flavour and a
few of the scenes.
The Computer game I've never seen.
> I quit playing PC games when I installed Windows 2000 (NT5). Although, I
> may have to buy a new PC to run the new B5 games. I'm currently using a 4
> year old Pentium II 266, 128MB RAM (the max limit), and expanded about as
> far as it can go.
Adam
Kathryn Huxtable
news:vmysncc...@assari.cc.tut.fi...
> In yet another words:
> Most of Babylon 5 varies from good to great, sometimes pure
> genius. I've never been so excited afront my TV tube than when
> watching stories like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Z'ha'dum",
> and "The Long, Twilight Struggle". Nevertheless, this doesn't
> infallible and great. In my opinion, Thirdspace should never
> have been done. It's outright stupid.
I agree with you. And I certainly am not trying to elevate myself. JMS is a
very good writer, but even Jove nods.
For those of you who like Thirdspace, well, it's a good thing we don't all
like the same things. There'd be shortages.
-K
Jeff Vavasour
> Not with the problems I've having with too many ads that pop-up. Most
> sites I've seen with reviews are like billboard heaven.
They're often pretty trivial to stop. Check around for info.
- Jeff
Pelzo63
>From: "LK" <founta...@yahoo.com>
>> Not with the problems I've having with too many ads that pop-up. Most
>> sites I've seen with reviews are like billboard heaven.
>That would be billboard hell, right? :-)
well, unfortunately with the collapse of internet advertising revenues, the
popup ads are the only ways for sites to get paid now days, either that or
charge us an access fee. i personally don't mind popup ads*, they usually go
behind the browser window you're looking at, it's merely 1 more click for me to
get rid of it after i'm done, compared to a fee for accessing the site, it's
better for me(someone has to get paid for the content afterall)
*as long as they're not the neverending circle ads.
...Chris
Mac Breck
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pelzo63" <pel...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
What I most dislike about the ads. is that they delay the delivery of the
screen you're actually waiting for, the "content" screen. Ever notice that
Sci-Fi always makes sure the ads. show up first?
What's most annoying are the Flash Ads like the "13 Ghosts" one on
scifi.com. I removed Flash just to make the damn thing shut up. It comes
on loud and chaotic, and the first time it happens, it makes you think some
obnoxious virus has attacked your PC. After the first time, it's just a
nuisance.
Werner Spahl
> Herranen Henrik wrote:
> >
> > - Draal is never called. It's only the end of the known universe,
> > so why disturb him?
>
> 1. He's sitting on one of the most advanced information gathering
> devices in the series. Do you think he *needs* to be called? I'd say he
> was doing what he could off screen.
Maybe, but then in contrary to ST is was normaly one of the better ways
of Babylon 5 that we would have actually heard about things off screen!
> 2. And just how much did you expect him to do? The great machine is
> *not* a weapon. It's an information gathering device with some self
> defence mechanisms.
The self defence mechanisms of the GM could have been easily diminished
by something like "out of range" but it should have been considered. What
would have been so problematic about a single comment of Sheridan or some
scenes of beams firing from the surface? New viewer would probably just
suppose that these were other defence systems of B5 ;). Either way, also
regarding the fun-aspect JMS always mentioned about TS, in the earlier
seasons of B5 even in fun and independent episodes, the background was
correct which made a lot of difference to the usual ST inconsistencies.
Regretfully this went downhill towards the 5. season, just compare the
background actions of "Now for a word" and "View from a gallery" :(...
--
Werner Spahl (sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Mac Breck
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Canning" <da...@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> In article <002b01c15a64$9fca4fb0$60d5c997@MACBRECK>,
> macb...@access995.com says...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Adam Canning" <da...@dahak.free-online.co.uk>
> > Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> The Computer game I've never seen.
It has the "starship" Yamato on the box cover. The W.W.II battleship Yamato
(Grey top/Red bottom) is depicted in outer space.
While I was into W.W.I and W.W.II Combat Flight Sims for a long time, and
Space Combat Sims as well, I've never been into such a mix of the W.W.II
stuff and the futuristic space stuff. Seems just too incongruous and silly.
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn Huxtable" <kat...@kathrynhuxtable.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> "Herranen Henrik" <leo...@assari.cc.tut.fi> wrote in message
> news:vmysncc...@assari.cc.tut.fi...
> > In yet another words:
> > Most of Babylon 5 varies from good to great, sometimes pure
> > genius. I've never been so excited afront my TV tube than when
> > watching stories like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Z'ha'dum",
> > and "The Long, Twilight Struggle". Nevertheless, this doesn't
> > automatically make anything that have the "Babylon 5" stamp on it
> > infallible and great. In my opinion, Thirdspace should never
> > have been done. It's outright stupid.
>
> I agree with you. And I certainly am not trying to elevate myself. JMS is
a
> very good writer, but even Jove nods.
Yes, everybody makes mistakes. That's when it'd be nice to have somebody
there to make a suggestion (truly *constructive* criticism to *improve* the
project), or at least bring up the deficiency in time to think up a good
solution and steer the project away from the pitfalls (plot holes, errors in
physics, conflicts/continuity errors with already existing B5-stuff, etc.).
Didn't they have anybody serving in this capacity on Thirdspace?
JPL was serving in somewhat this capacity on Crusade, and still Gideon
shooting the main guns at the planet got into the episode! The Excalibur
was being pulled toward the planet even though resisting with 100% engine
power. Gideon fires the main guns (and so loses all engine power to resist
the pull), and *isn't* pulled more rapidly toward the planet. How'd JPL
miss this? Hell, how'd *anybody* miss this? Now *that's* right up there
with bullets that fire because of being heated by steam.
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "AndrSwllw" <andr...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
> In article <002001c159e3$86db93f0$4bd5c997@MACBRECK>, "Mac Breck"
> <macb...@access995.com> writes:
>
> >
> >Well, he doesn't want to give in to Trent, and would protect one of his
own
> >from her. Lyta's saved his butt how many times? He probably suspects
> >there's a good "Vorlon" reason for what Lyta tried to do. Granted,
Sheridan
> >protecting Lyta is highly uncharacteristic of him, especially since
> >Thirdspace takes place after Epiphanies
> >(http://www.dscga.com/lurk/guide/073.html).
> >
> >
>
> Sheridan protected Lyta in Epiphanies - he waited until Bester was
> out of the way before telling her off. This meant that Psi Corps
> could not claim her.
...but he didn't support her in any other capacity, and this leads to her
having to sign that contract with Bester, driving her further away and
closer to the edge.
About all he and Lochley didn't do was call Bester and have him try to pick
up Lyta from her cell in Objects in Motion, but that's because it would have
been a bloodbath and might have destroyed the station, and because G'Kar
stepped in with an ingenius solution.
Mac Breck
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[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Story Idea Deleted.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herranen Henrik" <leo...@assari.cc.tut.fi>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
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"Mac Breck" <macb...@access995.com> writes:
Are you conceding all the stuff that should have gone in this space? I
doubt it, but before you respond, read the rest.
> > > - And nobody ever talked about it again. Ever. Not even when they
> > > remember the most dangerous situations of the past year in the
> > > 5th season.
> > Now I sort of agree with this. It just rings false that there aren't
more
> > links from the B5 episodes to Thirdspace. It's too much of a
free-floating
> > standalone, not very well anchored to the episodes. It "could" *only*
be
> > mentioned in episodes or movies shot *after* Thirdspace. However, where
> > would they drop in the references, and why? It would *have* to make
sense
> > to mention it in an episode (a reason the episode needed it), in
*addition*
> > to providing a link for Thirdspace.
> Haven't watched the 5th season episodes for a while, but there is a
> scene where they remember all the incidents where lots of Whitestars
> were lost.
Right before Delenn goes to Minbar to discuss the building of the Destroyer
Class of Whitestar (which eventually turns into the Victory Class)?
> Some squirmishes
Another sarcastic reference, or just a typo?
> smaller than Thirdspace are mentioned,
> and that would have been a perfectly good time to mention it.
Agreed.
> Actually,
> it _should_ have been mentioned, because it was the biggest danger to
> the universe ever. (And yes, 5th season was shot _after_ Thirdspace.)
> And as said, not even mentioning Draal or trying to contact him is
> such a cardinal sin. Never would his help have been more needed. Even
> mentioning that "We cannot connect to Draal due to X" would have
> sufficed to some extent.
Agreed.
> > My conclusion is that you're overlooking the above explanations, and
want to
> > elevate yourself by denigrating somebody else's work.
> Well, your conclusion couldn't be much further from the truth. Please
> read and UNDERSTAND the following text so that you won't make this
> claim again.
Well that's what the general tone of the post, and "Turdspace" sounded like.
> I love Babylon 5. I leaned on the national Finnish broadcasting company
> Yleisradio for years to get the show on the air. I subtitled four
> episodes (with an Amiga program I wrote myself) in Finnish during the
> 3rd season's longest break and (with a help from friends) send them
> to Yleisradio. Never done that before or after. Also, do notice that
> I had already seen all episodes broadcast in the US, so I didn't do
> this all for myself.
> When we finally got Babylon 5 on the air (I never knew if my campaign
> helped with it, but who cares?), I founded Finland's second moderated
> newsgroup ever, sfnet.viestinta.tv.babylon5. You may try to make a
> guess what that newsgroup was about. It was founded when I thought
> the unmoderated group was getting a bit thick with intentional spoilers
> by some nasty individuals.
> All in all, claiming that I say Thirdspace is bad only because I want
> to denigrate JMS's work, is utter and pure crap. Sorry to be this
> blunt, but that's how it is.
Often it seems that people who write the most *scathing* reviews, who list
only what they dislike and do *not* try to see the other side of the coin
and come up with any possible reasons *why* the movie was done that way, and
who use words like "stupid," and who spell the title in a cute, sophomoric
way to make the movie seem like a steaming pile of excrement, *are* in
effect saying "If *I'd* done the movie, *I'd* never have done it this way,
because **I** would have known better." Then, they walk off with their nose
held high in the air.
So, please, present your arguments in the areas of our disagreement from my
Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:50 PM post, the area you completely snipped.
Personally, I don't *especially* like Thirdspace either, but I can see some
story-related reasons for the things you dislike about it. What I don't
like about it is that the whole thing's too simplistic (People find
artifact. Artifact controls people. People activate artifact. Bad aliens
start to come through. People blow up artifact.). It's less complex than
any B5 episode. It's like an episode with the B-thread and tons of
details/references subtracted, and then the remaining A-thread is stretched
out from 45 minutes to 90 minutes. Where there should be details given,
there aren't any. Instead, things are glossed over.
I am *not* averse to being critical of Thirdspace or any project, regardless
of whether it's a JMS project or not. I just object to not trying to
present a balanced review and coming off like an sarcastic reviewer.
> In yet another words:
> Most of Babylon 5 varies from good to great, sometimes pure
> genius. I've never been so excited afront my TV tube than when
> watching stories like "And the Sky Full of Stars", "Z'ha'dum",
> and "The Long, Twilight Struggle". Nevertheless, this doesn't
> automatically make anything that have the "Babylon 5" stamp on it
> infallible and great. In my opinion, Thirdspace should never
> have been done. It's outright stupid.
It is lacking, the way it was done. We're used to the density of
information presented in the average B5 episode (at least two main threads
and lots of detail and foreshadowing in those threads), and Thirdspace
didn't have that. This is probably one of the reasons why we miss all the
tie-ins to the B5 episodes, and one of the reasons why it resembles Trek
(the other reason being the quick, Trek-like wrap-up). Thirdspace seemed
like a low density story, like there was not much really there, and that it
was written quickly under a deadline and padded with Ooh-Aah CGI and music.
The bottom line is that JMS has us spoiled rotten. We *expect* a B5-level
of detail, foreshadowing (things that could have been put in Thirdspace that
could have paid off in Season 5 episodes, Crusade, B5:LotR, etc. etc.), and
links to past episodes. When we get a low density, "for fun," Trek-like
tale, we're disappointed.
LK
<macb...@access995.com> wrote:
>JPL was serving in somewhat this capacity on Crusade, and still Gideon
>shooting the main guns at the planet got into the episode! The Excalibur
>was being pulled toward the planet even though resisting with 100% engine
>power. Gideon fires the main guns (and so loses all engine power to resist
>the pull), and *isn't* pulled more rapidly toward the planet. How'd JPL
>miss this? Hell, how'd *anybody* miss this? Now *that's* right up there
>with bullets that fire because of being heated by steam.
>
Hey, I believed it when John Steed stuck a bullet into a knot hole and
set it off by hitting it with his shoe or nail or something :-)
For some characters it's charisma that bends physics.
LK
LK
<sp...@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>Regretfully this went downhill towards the 5. season, just compare the
>background actions of "Now for a word" and "View from a gallery" :(...
I'd rather have lunch with Mac and Bo than the perky reporter Ivanova
was about to deck.
LK
Mac Breck
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----- Original Message -----
From: "LK" <founta...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR review up at aint it cool news (SPOILERS)
Well, as long as the nail hit the right area, hard enough, the primer would
be ignited, and the bullet would go off (almost certainly with disastrous
results for Steed). This is a Maxwell Smart kind of move. :-)
Steam is *nowhere near* hot enough, especially at ~atmospheric pressure, to
cause a bullet to go off. In the flames of a fire, maybe, but not the way
Garibaldi used 'em! <shudder>
Didn't the scene in Racing the Night bother anybody else? Did JPL just miss
it, or did they bring it up and were overruled for creative license/story
reasons?
Lisa Coulter
> Thank you, JMS! When I first got online, I noticed this tendency with
> some Trek fans to trash B5, & I couldn't understand why they would do
> this. I still don't--it's stupid & pointless. I don't like Trek as
> much as I used to, but I don't go to Trek sites & trash it. I guess
> I'll never understand what motivates these people.
>
> Tammy
I agree 100 % Tammy. I can't wait to see B5: LOTR. My husband, after
watching "Angel" last night, said "How about a jms and Whedon
network?"
Well, we can fantasize at least (though Joe tops Whedon IMHO, but
Whedon *is* good.)
As for Trek, I really liked Next Gen. I don't like the recent stuff
too much, but I have many beeter things to do with my time than go to
Trek sites and annoy people about it - that's just plain silly, and a
waste of the moments we do have in life. Who has time?
Lisa Coulter
Jake Patterson
> Not with the problems I've having with too many ads that pop-up. Most
> sites I've seen with reviews are like billboard heaven.
Turn off JavaScript.
Either that, or use iCab, which is a browser that allows you to tell it to
let JavaScript do anything it can normally do except open another window.
I think Opera can also do that little trick.
No more pop-ups!
Lisa Coulter
> On 18 Oct 2001 07:14:52 GMT, jms...@aol.com (Jms at B5) wrote:
>
> >This happens every time we do anything B5 related, it happened every season of
> >the show ("We've seen scripts for season three and it's going to be just
> >action, no more character stuff")
>
>
> (possible spoilers for those that have not, as yet, seen season three
> episodes)
>
>
>
>
>
> Hopefully that's enough. Can't be too careful though....let's give a
> bit more room...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I missed season 3 and 4 of Babylon 5 when it originally aired. Living
> in a place where fire is one of those new-fangled things does have
> some disadvantages.
>
> Recently a friend of mine gave me season 3 and 4 on tape, and I watch
> one episode per day (while I eat lunch). It has been many years since
> I got so caught up in a book or a movie that I forgot I was reading,
> or watching.
>
> I've recently watched the episode where B5 breaks away from the Earth
> alliance. But I went from near despair to almost euphoria at the end,
> when B5 was about to fall...and Delenn shows up to save the station.
>
> I am so very glad I never heard or listened to the people who
> critisized this series. I've been able to watch it cold, and I have
> been amazed.
Great! I just love it when we get some new people on here with fresh
insight - it's almost like the rest of us watching it for the first
time again. And S3 and $ are tops (IMHO). Please feel free to post
your thoughts as you go through them!
Lisa Coulter
"In the end, theere is always the sunrise...."
Lisa Coulter
This is completely unrelated (sorry Mac) but I've been looking for a
way to
interject it... so
Am I the only one who is highly diverted by the fact that TWO
Rodenberry - inspired shows in the past week featured male
pregnancies? Perhaps it's ok to rip off each other <g>
(Well, ok, they are done differently but stilll...)
May be my sense of humor has just been scrambled.
Lisa Coulter
Craig Powers
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:36 PM
>
> > 4) I honestly feel that B5's special effects quality went down with
> the
> > departure of
> > Foundation. I also believe that their ambition went up at the
> same
> > time making for
> > some awkward special effects scenes
>
> What was the switchover point between Ron Thornton/Foundation and Netter
> Digital? I'll have to pay some attention to this, but right now, if there
> was any degradation, it seems to have been slight.
I think it was after season 3, and before season 4. If I'm right, then
there's a noticeable change in style, as post-Foundation they tend to
forget and show stuff that looks more like space-as-a-viscous-fluid.
It was interesting, watching stuff from season 1 when it re-aired
recently, to see just how good the effects were.
Consequently, I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed by
Jonathan.
br...@blindpanic.com
>Great! I just love it when we get some new people on here with fresh
>insight - it's almost like the rest of us watching it for the first
>time again. And S3 and $ are tops (IMHO). Please feel free to post
>your thoughts as you go through them!
>
>Lisa Coulter
>
>"In the end, theere is always the sunrise...."
(Forgive the spelling errors on some characters & locations; I don't
have a refernce handy to look them up)
Well, to be completely honest I saw some of the shows during the first
run. I have a pretty good idea how it all turns out (I have seen
Sleeping in Light).
I very much agree that season 3 and 4 (at least the first few shows)
seem to be the best. I've heard grumblings about season 5 but have
steadfastly refused to listen to them.
One thing I did find odd. I just finished watchin Z'ah'duum, the last
episode of Season 3. In this episode Sheriden tells Delenn that, in
the future, she told him not to go to Z'ha'duum. But then he got to
thinking...what if he had listened to her, and that was the reason the
Centuri Prime had fallen?
My first thought was "well, if you didn't go, then she wouldn't bloody
well be telling you not to go...because you didn't. " A very minor
quibble in an otherwise excellent story.
The only other problem I have with the story overall is the fact that
they never call Draal. I know that JMS is very reluctant to have a
"Deux ex Machina" type of a story, but there were parts where they
REALLY needed to call Draal & didn't. I'm hoping this will be
explained in the later episodes..again, time will tell.
On an entirely unrelated note: I was watching a Star Trek: The Next
Generation rerun not too long ago (gads, I hope this doesn't stir up a
flame war. I like Star Trek...really, I do...you *can* like both
shows, honest). But there was a scene where Diana was telling Worf
"You feel doscomfort" or some such. He denied it, and she kept
pushing. The only thing I could think of was, put in the same
position, I might have had to tell her (in no uncertain terms) to
stay the heck OUT of my head unless she's invited.
(Lyta Alexander, on the other hand, is welcome to root around in
anything of mine she likes, any time).
If telepaths existed I could certainly see the need for something like
the Psi Corps, or at least some way to keep them from rooting around
in my brain. It would be terribly invasive.
E. John Roth III
Ok I know Enterpirse had one - what was the other show?
E. John Roth III
Simo Aaltonen
>Well, your conclusion couldn't be much further from the truth. Please
>read and UNDERSTAND the following text so that you won't make this
>claim again.
Your problem, Henrik, is that you come off extremely arrogant in your
posts, here and elsewhere.
>I love Babylon 5. I leaned on the national Finnish broadcasting company
>Yleisradio for years to get the show on the air. I subtitled four
>episodes (with an Amiga program I wrote myself) in Finnish during the
>3rd season's longest break and (with a help from friends) send them
>to Yleisradio. Never done that before or after. Also, do notice that
>I had already seen all episodes broadcast in the US, so I didn't do
>this all for myself.
Great. But just because you did these things doesn't mean your opinion is
any more valid than anyone else's. I *know* you don't believe you think that
way, but you do. Methinks you protest altogether too much.
>When we finally got Babylon 5 on the air (I never knew if my campaign
>helped with it, but who cares?), I founded Finland's second moderated
>newsgroup ever, sfnet.viestinta.tv.babylon5. You may try to make a
>guess what that newsgroup was about. It was founded when I thought
>the unmoderated group was getting a bit thick with intentional spoilers
>by some nasty individuals.
That group was not terribly receptive to dissenting opinions either. Or,
in order not to generalise too much, at least not to my opinions. I
remember how I was called a blind fanboy just because I actually dared to
*look forward* to Crusade, based on the quality of JMS's previous work.
Most on that group, the so-called Old Timers (the founders of the group,
the Old Ones), were very quick on the draw with negative opinions, far
moreso than with positive ones. That was characteristic of the Finnish
group, and your attitude in general, Henrik--you believe negative
criticism is *more* important than positive comments. It isn't. It's *as*
important. I don't believe we'd have gone to the moon if there weren't
those saying "yes, we are ready to do this" to balance out those who were
saying "there's still a lot of room for improvement in our technology".
>All in all, claiming that I say Thirdspace is bad only because I want
>to denigrate JMS's work, is utter and pure crap. Sorry to be this
>blunt, but that's how it is.
*In Your Opinion.* You never seem to make that distinction, even in your
own mind. Nothing is *ever* "just so". These are opinions, not facts,
Henrik.
Just my two cents. I hope you don't take these comments as attacks, since
that's not how they're meant. They are constructive criticism, something
you are a self-avowed proponent of. However, nothing I have said should
be taken as factual, objective claims. These are opinions.
-Simo Aaltonen-
--
P.S. It's rather a tourist thing to do to have signature files in Finnish
when posting to an English-speaking newsgroup.