fwd, re:cross breeds
The Bagwells
it with the group.
-------------------
William,
I'm replying to your post directly, not through either group.
(because
I'm flame shy for what I'm about to say...)
There are two main points I'd like to make:
1) all camelids are cross fertile. Any member of either the camel
or lama
families can produce a fetile offspring when bred to a member of one
of the
other groups. (i.e. when llamas have been crossed with camels,
guanacoes or
alpacas, the offspring are fertile. I know of successful breedings
in all
of these cases but I don't know of a case history for a vicuna x
llama - it
probably has happened but I don't have personal knowledge of it.)
Here comes the flame sensitive part: In the llama world, there
is a
tremendous question about "paco llamas" which are the cross of an
alpaca
with a llama. These animals are also called huarizos. Many people
have
suspected that many of the very small, very wolly "llamas" imported
from
South America in the last 15 or so years are actually crossbreeds due
to
their lack of guardhair, exceptional wooliness and diminuitive size
(all
alpaca traits). At least one scientist has declared one "llama"
import to
be a crossbreed. This animal had been bought by a zoo in New Mexico,
sight
unseen. When the animal arrived it was very small and looked like an
alpaca. The zoo investigated and the above conclusion was reached
based on
DNA analysis. I think that school is still out on this subject but
I've
heard of albout a half dozen groups of scientists currently studying
llama/alpaca DNA who may soon come up with difinitive information.
These
groups are located in Callifornia, Kentucky?? Japan, two in South
America
and one in either New Zealand or Austrailia.
that's about all I know,
hope it helps,
(name withheld) forwarded with permission by William Bagwell
R.D.
I have questioned for some time now whether these "paca/llamas" were
conceived in SouthAmerica accidentally, or were intentionally bred this way.
Several people I have questioned who have been involved in llamas far longer
than I have given the impression that these crosses are in fact
intentional.
Did the gentleman who e-mailed you mean that llamas being produced today
with no guard hair must be a product of a cross breeding ? or could we have
intentionally bred animals with a predisposition to the softer, non guard
hair type to achieve this ? I know when I was building my herd I went for
the animals with little or no guard hair. Now through my breedings I have
animals without any guard hair what so ever! and as a matter of fact, I am
now trying to bred back a little guard hair since
a llama without any guard hair is far more difficult to take care of than
one with a little guard to protect the fleece from dirt, vegetation and
matting.
I also wonder if any farms in the US have done cross breeding and how would
these animals be able to become registered as "llamas" ? please give me your
thoughts on the subject.
Robin
The Bagwells wrote in message <01beae26$143a2de0$2913...@mypc.tds.net>...
The Bagwells
R.D. <robl...@enter.net> wrote in article
<375a...@news3.enter.net>...
> William:
> I have questioned for some time now whether these "paca/llamas"
were
> conceived in SouthAmerica accidentally, or were intentionally bred
this way.
> Several people I have questioned who have been involved in llamas
far longer
> than I have given the impression that these crosses are in fact
> intentional.
Just a guess, Think that years ago most were accidents now that the
ranchers in S. A. know what the "rich gringos" want they are probable
doing it intentionally. I can't blame them and would do the same
thing if I were in there shoes. I think the issue is weather or not
the importers know that the llamas they are bringing in have some
alpaca blood. To me it's no big deal, have a sweet old gal out of
Chilean import parents. And if I found out she was 25% alpaca I would
be happy, as I can not afford an alpaca at today's prices.
> Did the gentleman who e-mailed you mean that llamas being produced
today
> with no guard hair must be a product of a cross breeding ?
I get the impression he means just that, that "some" recent imports
have "some" alpaca in them, as to what percentage "some" means this
will be answered by DNA testing. Unfortunately this may cause a rash
of lawsuits by people who might be offended that there expensive
llama is not pure. That is the gentleman's main concern and BTW he
has been in the biz a lot longer than I.
> or could we have
> intentionally bred animals with a predisposition to the softer, non
guard
> hair type to achieve this ? I know when I was building my herd I
went for
> the animals with little or no guard hair. Now through my breedings
I have
> animals without any guard hair what so ever! and as a matter of
fact, I am
> now trying to bred back a little guard hair since
> a llama without any guard hair is far more difficult to take care
of than
> one with a little guard to protect the fleece from dirt, vegetation
and
> matting.
If your grooming for shows, you have my sympathy. We have a
mother/daughter with almost no guard hair, while the mom stays
relatively clean her girl rolls in everything! And unlike her mom
(who will stand with no halter) thinks we are killing her shearing
for heat stress.
> I also wonder if any farms in the US have done cross breeding and
how would
> these animals be able to become registered as "llamas" ? please
give me your
> thoughts on the subject.
> Robin
I too am hoping to hear from people who are raising cross's, that's
why I asked in the first place. (... well that and stirring up
interest in the group <G>) Before the registry closed I think all
that was required was to send a picture and some money, and bingo you
had a registered "llama" Now all you can do is list them. Also on the
subject of purity, have read that most of the classic North
Americans, i.e. those descended from llamas in this country since the
thirties have some guanaco in them.
This is getting long for this hunt and peck typist, maybe my
incomplete answers will drive a few more lurkers out of hiding.
William