Sir Robert Goushill
Leo van de Pas
Question 1. Does anyone know who his first three wives were?
Question 2. From the 4th marriage there were two daughters,
Joan and Elizabeth. Elizabeth is shown as born 'circa 1402' does this
mean Joan was the younger of the two? When was Joan born? Was there
time for a third child?
In "The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz, wife of Reverend John Owsley" by
Ronny Bodine and Brother Thomas W. Spalding Jr. :
Elizabeth Fitzalan (nr.631 and 722) is recorded as having been married
only three times (1) Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk (2) Sir Robert Goushill
and (3) (not mentioned by name) Sir Gerard Ufflete.
In the Complete Peerage under Norfolk, she is given a first husband, William de Montagu, and she is married to the three others mentioned as well.
Question 3. Which is correct?
Question 4. If married to William de Montagu, was there any offspring?
In this book by Ronny Bodine, as nr.1262 Sir Richard Fitzalan, 11th Earl of Arundel and Earl of Surrey, "born before 1347" is mentioned and with it is a very interesting observation: "being apparently the illegitimate son of his parents". If he was apparently illegitimate, how could he have become Earl of Arundel?
According to CP volume I pages 243 and 244, Richard Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel
(father of the Richard mentioned) as a child was married to Isabel Le Despencer
and fathered two children. Then after the fall of the Despencers, he requested an annulment of that marriage, which he received as well as the declaration that the two children were illegitimate and "married secondly 5 February 1344/5 at Ditton (a lady with whom he had previously cohabited), Eleanor of Lancaster.
Their son, our Richard, was born in 1346 (Ronny Bodine has 'before 1347')
In my opinion, our Richard was legitimate, perhaps not the rightful heir to the Earldom, which, perhaps, should have been his elder brother, who was diddled out of his inheritance with connivance of the Pope.
Can anyone elaborate what is correct here?
Leo van de Pas
U...@aol.com
leov...@iinet.net.au writes:
<< Sir Robert Goushill, who died of wounds, 21 July 1403, sustained at the
battle of Shrewsbury. As his fourth wife, he married before 19 August 1401
Elizabeth Fitzalan.
Question 1. Does anyone know who his first three wives were?
Question 2. From the 4th marriage there were two daughters,
Joan and Elizabeth. Elizabeth is shown as born 'circa 1402' does this
mean Joan was the younger of the two? When was Joan born? Was there
time for a third child? >>
Descendants of Robert Goushill, Sir
1 Robert Goushill, Sir b: in of Hoveringham, NTT, ENG d: 21
July 1403 in Shrewsbury, Salop, ENG; Was knighted and received control of her
dower land; died of wounds sustained at the Battle of Shrewsbury leaving 2
daughters and co-heiresses.
.. +Elizabeth FitzAlan b: Abt. 1375 m: Aft. 1399 d: 08 July 1425;
She was married for the third time, without the King's licence, before 19
Aug., 1401 [when her dower lands were ordered back into the King's hands] to
Robert Goushill, Esq. of Hoveringham, co. nottingham. She was pardoned 28
September 1401 and her lands were restored.
2 Joan Goushill b: Abt. 1401
.. +Thomas Stanley, Sir b: 1406 d: 1459
2 Elizabeth Goushill b: Abt. 1402
.. +Robert Wingfield, Sir b: Abt. 1403 in of Letheringham, SFK, ENG
d: 1451
Sources: CP 4:205, 9:604, 12(1):251
F 106-107
Unusual that Faris does not mention former wives of Robert. Also identifies
2 daughters by Elizabeth as co-heiresses, implying no previous children.
Always optimistic--dave
RBodine996
>>Sir Robert Goushill, who died of wounds, 21 July 1403, sustained at the
battle of Shrewsbury. As his fourth wife, he married before 19 August 1401
Elizabeth Fitzalan.
Question 1. Does anyone know who his first three wives were?
Question 2. From the 4th marriage there were two daughters,
Joan and Elizabeth. Elizabeth is shown as born 'circa 1402' does this
mean Joan was the younger of the two? When was Joan born? Was there
time for a third child?
REPLY: I am unable, at this time, to name the other wives, as I appear to have
misfiled some of my documents somewhere amongst more than 1000 file folders.
With regard to his offspring, his IPM (CIPM 18: no. 908) states his heirs were
his daughters Joan and Elizabeth aged 2 years and more and 1 year and more.
The Thurgarton Cartulary (by Trevor Foulds, 1994), p. 154 adds a third
daughter, Joyce, apparently born posthumously.
>>In "The Ancestry of Dorothea Poyntz, wife of Reverend John Owsley" by
Ronny Bodine and Brother Thomas W. Spalding Jr. :
Elizabeth Fitzalan (nr.631 and 722) is recorded as having been married
only three times (1) Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk (2) Sir Robert Goushill
and (3) (not mentioned by name) Sir Gerard Ufflete.
>>In the Complete Peerage under Norfolk, she is given a first husband, William
de Montagu, and she is married to the three others mentioned as well.
Question 3. Which is correct?
Question 4. If married to William de Montagu, was there any offspring?
REPLY: All the spouses for all persons named are not included. The entry for
no. 722, Sir Thomas Mowbray, reads "Married 2ndly, July 1384:" and his wife,
no. 723, reads: "Elizabeth FitzAlan. She was married 3rdly, before 19 Aug
1401, to Sir Robert Goushill (see No. 630) and after his death in 1414,
remarried again. See No. 641." That indicates she was married a 4th time.
The cited references, CP, 9: 601-604 and OGHBE: 391, answer your questions. CP
names her four husbands. And in the footnote on page 604, footnote c, is the
anser to your Question 4: "He was only s. and h. ap. of William (de Montagu),
earl of Salisbury (d. 1397). He d.v.p. and s.p., 6 Aug 1382." The
abbreviation d.v.p. indicates he died in the lifetime of his father and s.p.
(sine parole) that he died without issue.
>>In this book by Ronny Bodine, as nr.1262 Sir Richard Fitzalan, 11th Earl of
Arundel and Earl of Surrey, "born before 1347" is mentioned and with it is a
very interesting observation: "being apparently the illegitimate son of his
parents". If he was apparently illegitimate, how could he have become Earl of
Arundel?
>>According to CP volume I pages 243 and 244, Richard Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel
(father of the Richard mentioned) as a child was married to Isabel Le Despencer
and fathered two children. Then after the fall of the Despencers, he requested
an annulment of that marriage, which he received as well as the declaration
that the two children were illegitimate and "married secondly 5 February 1344/5
at Ditton (a lady with whom he had previously cohabited), Eleanor of Lancaster.
Their son, our Richard, was born in 1346 (Ronny Bodine has 'before 1347')
In my opinion, our Richard was legitimate, perhaps not the rightful heir to the
Earldom, which, perhaps, should have been his elder brother, who was diddled
out of his inheritance with connivance of the Pope.
REPLY: The citation for that entry includes CP, 1: 244-245, 14: 38. You only
referred to vol. 1. Vol. 14, p. 38 gives a lengthy explanation referring to
several fines in 1347 and 1354 on the settlement of the Arundell property,
which begins with "He appears to have been the illegit. s. of his parents..."
and includes the change of his birth from 1346 to "before 1347."
Hopefully this has provided some clarification.
Ronny Bodine