Daylight Saving Time
Elroy Willis
Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
new applications are being deployed.
One guy said that the reason it first started was to protect children
who were waiting for their school buses in the morning. I'd heard
that explanation before, and when I mentioned that moving the clock
*forward* an hour in the spring actually makes it get light *later*,
not *earlier*, so kids would be standing in the dark at the bus stop.
"But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time
1/2 hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but
I wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some
Googling around and some reading and found the following link.
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
"In Israel, ultra-Orthodox Sephardic Jews have campaigned against
daylight saving time because they recite Slikhot penitential prayers
in the early morning hours during the Jewish month of Elul."
Look at that; another Babylonian El god.
"A writer in 1947 wrote, "I don't really care how time is reckoned so
long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told
that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me
that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication
that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun
has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence
of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of
the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of
Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up
earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of
themselves." (Robertson Davies, The Diary of Samuel Marchbanks,
1947, XIX, Sunday.)"
The above link goes into some detail about the energy savings
during DST, which was what I thought was the main reason for
it in the first place. That and people liking an extra hour of
daylight at the end of their workday during the summer months
to do stuff outside.
Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
just leaving it there from then on.
What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
it's worth?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
georgann
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
georgann:
I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops. That's just their
excuse. Its really for all the golfers to have more daylight after dinner in
the Spring and Summer. That's why it keeps flipping back the other
direction.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
"Creation, the Movie" (sketches) in QuickTime ...
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/creation/Genesis.mov.zip
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_IntroII.html
(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด `'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)
jan_49
Rationale & original idea
The main purpose of Daylight Saving Time (called "Summer Time" many places
in the world) is to make better use of daylight. A poll done by the U.S.
Department of Transportation indicated that Americans liked Daylight Saving
Time because "there is more light in the evenings / can do more in the
evenings." A 1976 survey of 2.7 million citizens in New South Wales found
68% liked daylight saving.
Daylight Saving Time also saves energy. Studies done by the U.S. Department
of Transportation show that Daylight Saving Time trims the entire country's
electricity usage by a significant, but small amount, of less than one
percent each day with Daylight Saving Time. We save energy in both the
evening and the morning because we use less electricity for lighting and
appliances. Similarly, In New Zealand, power companies have found that power
usage decreases 3.5% when daylight saving starts. In the first week, peak
evening consumption commonly drops around 5%.
Energy use and the demand for electricity for lighting our homes is directly
connected to when we go to bed and when we get up. Bedtime for most of us is
late evening through the year. When we go to bed, we turn off the lights and
TV. In the average home, 25 percent of all the electricity we use is for
lighting and small appliances, such as TVs, VCRs and stereos. A good
percentage of energy consumed by lighting and appliances occurs in the
evening when families are home. By moving the clock ahead one hour, we can
cut the amount of electricity we consume each day.
--
jan
Atheist #2028
"I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout
the region." - President GW Bush, Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
"Elroy Willis" <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:E97360BB21161F25.80B76B87...@lp.airnews.net...
William Wingstedt
wrote:
Wow. My eact thoughts today! I also decided to split the difference,
go for the half hour and then leave it alone.
Vic Sagerquist
"Elroy Willis" <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:E97360BB21161F25.80B76B87...@lp.airnews.net...
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
>
Daylight savings time is my favorite time of year. When you set the clocks
ahead, I get to drive to work in the dark, avoiding the traffic jams caused
by sun-in-the-eyes syndrome. When I get off work, there's still time to get
as many as a dozen holes of golf in after twilight rates apply.
Vic Sagerquist
aa # 2011
Vic Sagerquist
"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B8D3BC7B.8B4B5%chen...@mindspring.com...
> Elroy Willis:
> > Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> > the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> > just leaving it there from then on.
>
> > What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> > it's worth?
>
> georgann:
> I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
> about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops. That's just
their
> excuse. Its really for all the golfers to have more daylight after dinner
in
> the Spring and Summer.
There ya go. For twilight golf I don't mind changing my clock once every
182.5 days...
Kerry
<snip>
> http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
>
> "In Israel, ultra-Orthodox Sephardic Jews have campaigned against
> daylight saving time because they recite Slikhot penitential prayers
> in the early morning hours during the Jewish month of Elul."
>
> Look at that; another Babylonian El god.
I read the other day that the word 'Israel' is from 'IS' - the moon,
'RA' - the sun, & 'EL' - god of the morning sun. As much sense as any.
>
<snip>
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
New Zealand have been on 1/2 hour ahead of standard time all year since
at least WWII and it also means that they are 12 hours ahead of GMT,
but back in the late 60's or early 70's they went for the six months
of DST, which works quite well for the southerly 40s they are located,
and means in their summer they are 1 and a 1/2 hours ahead.
Here in Australia its a mixed bag as in NSW we have 5 months starting
end of October and finishing last weekend on Sunday, 31st March. In the
tropical north - Queensland, Northern Territory, and all of the western
continent, called imaginatively <sarcasm> Western Australia, do not waste
time with it as the length of the tropical day doesn't change enough to
warrant any change, and Western Australia has most of it's population in
only one city - Perth. Tasmania has a whole six months down there to enjoy
their relatively (by Sydney standards) chilly summer evenings.
The comment in another post about how 68% of NSW residents favoured it
reflects the number of people who live in the major city - Sydney and it's
environs which are the only ones that it makes any sense for. Country folk
don't care for it all, as the idea of enduring an extra hour of heat up in
the high 30s Celcius (90 - 100 F) doesn't have much appeal, and they are
already forced to get up early all year as the time zone is centred close
to the east coast where most of the people live. City versus country.
I personally loathe it as it takes away the best hour of the day for the
grind of work, and unless you live right close to the ocean, or enjoy a
swimming pool in private, it is sheer murder trying to drive or travel
anywhere when most of the drivers in this 4 million people burg of Sydney
are trying to get home in the often extreme heat of summer.
Kerry
aa 1773
Meteorite Debris
Willis<e...@airmail.net> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
deep space -._. - ._. - ._. - ._. - ._. - ._.
<snipped>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
I had thought as a child, based on reading about DST in a 1961
Children's Britannica encyclopedia, that is started in WW1 to save on
electricity for the war effort. The Howstuffworks site seem to confirm
that.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/time4.htm
To get rid of DST you would not have to move the clock 1/2 hour. Non
DST zones are based on Greenwich time at the prime meridian so that
would be the correct time to keep as permanent time.
Time is works in funny ways around the world. In South Oz we have a
1/2 hour offset for CST from EST instead of the normal hour. Some Oz
states have DLT and others don't. In China the whole country has only
one time zone although it is bigger than Australia in geographical
size.
--
apatriot #1, atheist #1417, rot-13 on email reply
EAC Bicycle Salesman to marine vertebrates -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~meteorite/atheism/
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
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Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis:
>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>> just leaving it there from then on.
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
> georgann:
> I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
> about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops. That's just their
> excuse.
Who do you think was pushing that idea? I can remember hearing
it from somewhere other than the guy at work, but I can't remember
the first time I heard it.
> Its really for all the golfers to have more daylight after dinner in
> the Spring and Summer. That's why it keeps flipping back the other
> direction.
Good one. :-)
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
> Daylight savings time is my favorite time of year. When you set the clocks
> ahead, I get to drive to work in the dark, avoiding the traffic jams caused
> by sun-in-the-eyes syndrome. When I get off work, there's still time to get
> as many as a dozen holes of golf in after twilight rates apply.
A half-dozen wouldn't be enough?
Elroy Willis
> In China the whole country has only one time zone although it is bigger
> than Australia in geographical size.
Interesting, I didn't know that.
Vic Sagerquist
> Vic Sagerquist <vic...@dontspamme.inreach.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>
> >> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> >> it's worth?
>
> > Daylight savings time is my favorite time of year. When you set the
clocks
> > ahead, I get to drive to work in the dark, avoiding the traffic jams
caused
> > by sun-in-the-eyes syndrome. When I get off work, there's still time to
get
> > as many as a dozen holes of golf in after twilight rates apply.
>
> A half-dozen wouldn't be enough?
Once I played 36 in one day. It took the whole day, of course....
Meteorite Debris
Debris<aby...@qvatboyhr.arg.nh.ROT13> sent a radio signal across the
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:36:43 -0600 the ET form known as Elroy
> Willis<e...@airmail.net> sent a radio signal across the vast expanse of
> deep space -._. - ._. - ._. - ._. - ._. - ._.
>
> <snipped>
>
> > What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> > it's worth?
>
> I had thought as a child, based on reading about DST in a 1961
> Children's Britannica encyclopedia, that is started in WW1 to save on
> electricity for the war effort. The Howstuffworks site seem to confirm
> that.
>
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/time4.htm
>
> To get rid of DST you would not have to move the clock 1/2 hour. Non
> DST zones are based on Greenwich time at the prime meridian so that
> would be the correct time to keep as permanent time.
>
> Time is works in funny ways around the world. In South Oz we have a
> 1/2 hour offset for CST from EST instead of the normal hour. Some Oz
> states have DLT and others don't. In China the whole country has only
> one time zone although it is bigger than Australia in geographical
> size.
More on DLT
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/index.html
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/e.html
Ben Franklin first dreamed up the concept to save daylight.
Seems to be energy savings arguments in favour of it with the Standard
Time ACT of 1918 which included war time DLT and the Daylight Saving
Time Energy Act of 1973 both centred around the energy issue.
Jeff Graham
wrote:
>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>it's worth?
I like DST because the extra hour of evening daylight in summer (when
it's nice and warm out) allows me to spend extra time playing my
guitar out on the front porch...
Jeffrey L. Graham - a.a.# 1946
folk singer/songwriter; cartoonist
High Priest of Guinubis
http://hometown.aol.com/jeffreygraham62/myhomepage/personal.html
http://jeff_9921.tripod.com/templeofguinubis/
http://jeff_9921.tripod.com/religioushumour/
"Remember next time someone pisses you off that it takes 43
muscles to smile, but only 4 muscles to reach out and
bitch-slap the motha f***er."
(my 12-year-old son)
personal replies may also be crossposted to
alt.fan.jeffrey-graham
(if your usenet provider doesn't have it, ask for it).
lisac77
"Jeff Graham" <jeffrey...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:gg1tau0ih7l2v8oj8...@4ax.com...
I'm from north Texas, and, lemme tell ya, the whole "it gives us an extra
hour of warm summer evening" reasoning really, really flops here. It's warm
all right -- about 100 degrees (38 C) warm. Actually if you use that logic,
it would be better for Texans to stay on Standard Time all year around, as
it would get darker -- and cooler -- an hour earlier. In the summertime,
after dark is the only time I can spend any time outside because I am so
sensitive to sunburns. Therefore I cast my vote for getting rid of daylight
savings time.
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Lisa C.
a.a#2017
"Explain to me the exact scientific nature of 'the whammy.'" - Agent Scully
to Agent Mulder, The X-Files
johac
<E97360BB21161F25.80B76B87...@lp.airnews.net>,
Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote:
Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
anyone else hear of this?
>
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
Remebering when to switch and which way to turn the clocks is kind of
a pain, but I do like the extra daylight in the evenings. I guess I'm
one of those diurnal critters.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).
*nemo*
<snip>
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
>
You may be interested to know that daylight savings time was first proposed
by Ben Franklin, as a way to cut lamp-oil consumption in cities during the
summer. It was instituted briefly during WW I and became a permanent fixture
(IIRC) during WW II.
It's a pain, sure. But it balances out. I get an extra hour of fun in the
fall.
> --
> Elroy Willis
> EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
> http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
>
--
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**************************************************
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**************************************************
John Hattan
>Elroy Willis:
>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>> just leaving it there from then on.
>
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
>
>georgann:
>I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
>about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops.
Of course you also think that Jesus, who is represented by the number
219, is a capstone on a pyramid.
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
jo...@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
chibiabos
> Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
> why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
> have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
> change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
> new applications are being deployed.
>
> One guy said that the reason it first started was to protect children
> who were waiting for their school buses in the morning.
Wrong. It's to give us more daylight hours to drink beer.
Of course, in the winter, I merely start earlier. :]
-chib
--
Member of SMASH:
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
(email: change out to in)
Ted King
johac <jha...@remove.ixpres.com> wrote:
Having grown up in Iowa knowing a lot of family farmers, I don't think
DST and getting more leisure time are much of a consideration. Family
farms tend to have a rhythm almost independent of clocks. During some
seasons, there never seems to be enough time. If a heavy rain is likely
the next day during plowing time, they just turn on the lights and keep
plowing.
I don't know why it got started, but I suspect one of the biggest
factors DST stays the way it is, is because of retail businesses. A
significant amount of the the "staying outside" because of the extra
daylight time after work is in stores and restaurants spending money. In
the USA (and probably many other places), if you want an explanation for
a public policy, looking for where the money flows will often provide
much of that explanation, IMHO.
Ted
Rawley
news:3CAE62D5...@bigpond.net.au:
> I read the other day that the word 'Israel' is from 'IS' - the moon,
> 'RA' - the sun, & 'EL' - god of the morning sun. As much sense as any.
>
El seems to have been the word for any god. Elohim is a plural word
meaning a group of gods. Technically Israel was the new name Jacob
received from God. Sometimes it has been thought to mean 'that who
prevails with God'. I'm not sure about the 'Is' syllable, but following
your reason, it could be thought of as 'god of the sun and the moon'.
Have a shpadoinkle day!
-Rawley a.a #2029
--
What would Jesus do?
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to
the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a
sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his
father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-
in-law against her mother-in-law - a man's enemies
will be the members of his own household."
(Matthew 10:34-36)
Rawley
59E132.235...@news.ixpres.com:
> Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
> that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
> so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
> another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
> anyone else hear of this?
>
Yea, that's the only reason my mom ever gave me. Both my sets of
grandparents were farmers and thought that was why too.
Ichimusai
> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time 1/2
> hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but I
> wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some Googling
> around and some reading and found the following link.
I want to do away with the entire system we have. I'll go for
beats. We are global enough to not have to dabble with time zones any
more.
Ichimusai's conversion page
http://ichimusai.org/beat/
Swatch who invented the beats concept
http://www.swatch.com/
--
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Necrohippoflagellation, theists can't refuse it!
-- Liz, alt.atheism
Mike Ruskai
[snip]
>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>it's worth?
Well, first, the actual reason for DST is agricultural. The idea was that
during the growing season, farmers would have the maximum amount of daylight
with which to work, without having to get up earlier. The stuff you quoted
was without a doubt a bunch of nonsense (especially the reference to
Puritans).
I don't think it's particularly relevant these days, but I also don't find it
particularly perplexing.
--
- Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> writes:
>> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time 1/2
>> hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
>> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but I
>> wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some Googling
>> around and some reading and found the following link.
> I want to do away with the entire system we have. I'll go for
> beats. We are global enough to not have to dabble with time
> zones any more.
But there would still have to be time zones, even if the below
concept were adopted, right?
> Ichimusai's conversion page
> http://ichimusai.org/beat/
> Swatch who invented the beats concept
> http://www.swatch.com/
That's an interesting concept. I wonder if it'll catch on?
Elroy Willis
> johac <jha...@remove.ixpres.com> wrote:
>> Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
>> that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
>> so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
>> another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
>> anyone else hear of this?
> Having grown up in Iowa knowing a lot of family farmers, I don't think
> DST and getting more leisure time are much of a consideration. Family
> farms tend to have a rhythm almost independent of clocks. During some
> seasons, there never seems to be enough time. If a heavy rain is likely
> the next day during plowing time, they just turn on the lights and keep
> plowing.
I'd think sunrise and sunset would pretty much drive the life of a
farmer for the most part and not so much the time on some clock.
> I don't know why it got started, but I suspect one of the biggest
> factors DST stays the way it is, is because of retail businesses. A
> significant amount of the the "staying outside" because of the extra
> daylight time after work is in stores and restaurants spending money. In
> the USA (and probably many other places), if you want an explanation for
> a public policy, looking for where the money flows will often provide
> much of that explanation, IMHO.
I guess a poll of the people who run those businesses would reveal
if that's true or not. I don't know how many people actually care if
it's dark when they go shopping or out to eat these days.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
><snip>
>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>> just leaving it there from then on.
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
> You may be interested to know that daylight savings time was first proposed
> by Ben Franklin, as a way to cut lamp-oil consumption in cities during the
> summer. It was instituted briefly during WW I and became a permanent fixture
> (IIRC) during WW II.
It seems that the energy saved today is measurable, but not really
all that significant.
> It's a pain, sure. But it balances out. I get an extra hour of fun in the
> fall.
How?
Ichimusai
> Ichimusai <ic...@ichimusai.org> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> writes:
>
> >> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time 1/2
> >> hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
> >> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but I
> >> wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some Googling
> >> around and some reading and found the following link.
>
> > I want to do away with the entire system we have. I'll go for
> > beats. We are global enough to not have to dabble with time
> > zones any more.
>
> But there would still have to be time zones, even if the below
> concept were adopted, right?
No, there would not be any time zones. The Internet time is the same
all over the world, that is the point of it. What does it matter if
you go to bed at @800 or at @375?
What matters is that if you decide to meet someone on the net his
clock will show @400 the same time as yours irregardless of where he
is.
> > Ichimusai's conversion page
> > http://ichimusai.org/beat/
>
> > Swatch who invented the beats concept
> > http://www.swatch.com/
>
> That's an interesting concept. I wonder if it'll catch on?
It already has to some extent... My Ericsson T29s mobile phone shows
time in beats. I have a wristwatch that does it and I have a hack to
my Palm III that changes the diary to show times in beats. Not that
difficult. One hour is roughly 40 beats, 20 is 30 minutes and 10 is a
quarter of an hour. It is pretty simple to change to it.
And on the computer I use my conversion utility I wrote in JavaScript
:)
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>> Vic Sagerquist <vic...@dontspamme.inreach.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>>>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>>> it's worth?
>>> Daylight savings time is my favorite time of year. When you set the
>>> clocks ahead, I get to drive to work in the dark, avoiding the traffic jams
>>> caused by sun-in-the-eyes syndrome. When I get off work, there's still
>>> time to get as many as a dozen holes of golf in after twilight rates apply.
>> A half-dozen wouldn't be enough?
> Once I played 36 in one day. It took the whole day, of course....
Same here, back in my teen years during the summer. I pretty
much lived on the golf course. Didn't even have to wear a glove
back then.
stillsunny
wrote:
>*nemo* <nemo...@yahoo.Spambgone.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>
>><snip>
>
>>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>>> just leaving it there from then on.
>
>>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>> it's worth?
>
>> You may be interested to know that daylight savings time was first proposed
>> by Ben Franklin, as a way to cut lamp-oil consumption in cities during the
>> summer. It was instituted briefly during WW I and became a permanent fixture
>> (IIRC) during WW II.
>
>It seems that the energy saved today is measurable, but not really
>all that significant.
Here:
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/e.html
The significance would have been greater if you were a country at war,
an dependent on oil sorts of things for heat and light in the
evenings.
To be honest, I *like* daylight saving time. My body adjusts quite
well to it. I only wish they'd quit switching it around -- it's a
pain.
Sunny
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis wrote:
> [snip]
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
> Well, first, the actual reason for DST is agricultural. The idea was that
> during the growing season, farmers would have the maximum amount of
> daylight with which to work, without having to get up earlier.
The amount of daylight is irrespective of the time on some clock.
When the sun rises and the rooster crows, it's time to get up,
regardless of the time on some man-made clock. I don't see why
farmers would even bother with DST unless it involved having to deal
with workers who had to be at work on-time according to some
man-made clock.
> The stuff you quoted was without a doubt a bunch of nonsense
> (especially the reference to Puritans).
> I don't think it's particularly relevant these days, but I also don't find it
> particularly perplexing.
It's not a big deal I suppose, but I wouldn't mind if it was done away
with by some sort of compromise.
Bored With the Bitch
>
>Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
>why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
>have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
>change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
>new applications are being deployed.
>
>One guy said that the reason it first started was to protect children
>who were waiting for their school buses in the morning. I'd heard
>that explanation before, and when I mentioned that moving the clock
>*forward* an hour in the spring actually makes it get light *later*,
>not *earlier*, so kids would be standing in the dark at the bus stop.
>
>"But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
>
>When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
>didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
>bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
>
>Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time
>1/2 hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
>more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but
>I wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some
>Googling around and some reading and found the following link.
>
>http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
>
>"In Israel, ultra-Orthodox Sephardic Jews have campaigned against
>daylight saving time because they recite Slikhot penitential prayers
>in the early morning hours during the Jewish month of Elul."
>
>Look at that; another Babylonian El god.
>
>"A writer in 1947 wrote, "I don't really care how time is reckoned so
>long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told
>that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me
>that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication
>that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun
>has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence
>of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of
>the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of
>Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up
>earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of
>themselves." (Robertson Davies, The Diary of Samuel Marchbanks,
>1947, XIX, Sunday.)"
>
>The above link goes into some detail about the energy savings
>during DST, which was what I thought was the main reason for
>it in the first place. That and people liking an extra hour of
>daylight at the end of their workday during the summer months
>to do stuff outside.
>
>Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>just leaving it there from then on.
>
>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>it's worth?
Yes, to me, it is. The pain comes in two flavours: The first is the
twice-annual exercise of having to run all over the house and reset all the
damn clocks. The second is more esoteric, but bear with me. When you "spring
forward", an hour is skipped, and likewise, when you "fall back", an entire
hour disappears. If you are doing -anything- that requires keeping records
with a timestamp, be it manual or automated, you have to account for the
disappearing and re-appearing hour at the boundaries. For this reason, when i
do -anything- that involves timestamping a record, I use UTC time which does
not shift in accordance with DST rules. (Which I understand differs from one
jusrisdiction to another, and not all jurisdictions even bother with DST.)
I for one would just like to set the clocks and leave them.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
| -- Bardic Motto
Awarded title of "Defacto CLuM" by "kansan" 2001-05-12
======
At one point in time, many of us actually had Jesus as
our personal lord and saviour. Unfortunately, we later
had to dismiss him for incompetence, gross negligence,
misconduct and consistent failure to show up for work.
======
Religious people believe IN god.
The religious right believes they ARE god.
======
"Hey, who needs a conscience when jeezuz died for our sins?"
-- Ahriman
====
Awarded "Brazen Sinner Medal First Class" 2002-02-09 by Georgann Chenault
Bored With the Bitch
>georgann <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> Elroy Willis:
>>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>>> just leaving it there from then on.
>
>>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>> it's worth?
>
>> georgann:
>> I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
>> about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops. That's just their
>> excuse.
>
>Who do you think was pushing that idea? I can remember hearing
>it from somewhere other than the guy at work, but I can't remember
>the first time I heard it.
I think it was originally instigated to give farmers and other rural types an
extra hour to do thier chores.
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/ discusses the matter.
http://www.time.gov/exhibits.html covers general timekeeping through the
ages.
Bored With the Bitch
wrote:
I'm from south Texas where the temps sometimes get up to 46C (115F) and I
would like to se it done away with as well. That and the hassle of messing
with the clocks.
Bored With the Bitch
>Ted King <lod...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>> johac <jha...@remove.ixpres.com> wrote:
>
>>> Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
>>> that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
>>> so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
>>> another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
>>> anyone else hear of this?
>
>> Having grown up in Iowa knowing a lot of family farmers, I don't think
>> DST and getting more leisure time are much of a consideration. Family
>> farms tend to have a rhythm almost independent of clocks. During some
>> seasons, there never seems to be enough time. If a heavy rain is likely
>> the next day during plowing time, they just turn on the lights and keep
>> plowing.
>
>I'd think sunrise and sunset would pretty much drive the life of a
>farmer for the most part and not so much the time on some clock.
They do, and that is one of the reasons for DST. Standard time zones came
about because it made the railroad company's lives easier.
*nemo*
We get a 25-hour Sunday in October, of course...
>
> --
> Elroy Willis
> EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
> http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
>
--
Bored With the Bitch
>Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> writes:
>
>> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time 1/2
>> hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
>> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but I
>> wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some Googling
>> around and some reading and found the following link.
>
>I want to do away with the entire system we have. I'll go for
>beats. We are global enough to not have to dabble with time zones any
>more.
>
>Ichimusai's conversion page
>http://ichimusai.org/beat/
>
>Swatch who invented the beats concept
>http://www.swatch.com/
There already is a universal time standard, called UTC ("Coordinated Universal
TIme") which IIRC, is GMT minus the summertime adjustements. It is what all
the other time scales are derived from.
The Plasmatron
> Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
> why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
> have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
> change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
> new applications are being deployed.
> One guy said that the reason it first started was to protect children
> who were waiting for their school buses in the morning. I'd heard
> that explanation before, and when I mentioned that moving the clock
> *forward* an hour in the spring actually makes it get light *later*,
> not *earlier*, so kids would be standing in the dark at the bus stop.
> "But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
> When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
> didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
> bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time
> 1/2 hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but
> I wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some
> Googling around and some reading and found the following link.
> http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
> "In Israel, ultra-Orthodox Sephardic Jews have campaigned against
> daylight saving time because they recite Slikhot penitential prayers
> in the early morning hours during the Jewish month of Elul."
> Look at that; another Babylonian El god.
> "A writer in 1947 wrote, "I don't really care how time is reckoned so
> long as there is some agreement about it, but I object to being told
> that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me
> that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication
> that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun
> has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence
> of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of
> the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of
> Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up
> earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of
> themselves." (Robertson Davies, The Diary of Samuel Marchbanks,
> 1947, XIX, Sunday.)"
> The above link goes into some detail about the energy savings
> during DST, which was what I thought was the main reason for
> it in the first place. That and people liking an extra hour of
> daylight at the end of their workday during the summer months
> to do stuff outside.
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
Why even fuck around with a half hour? Just do away with it. Just
don't turn it on any more at all. As I recall not all american states do
it, and I sure doubt other countries do it, so why be a half hour off from
the rest of the world to give some half satisfaction to a bunch of
puritanical jackoffs?
I say it's a confusing bit of crap, and worthless in modern times, so
why don't we just stop doing it? Anyway, like you mentioned, it makes the
kids get to the bus stops while it's still dark and they're hard to
see. Think of the children ;)
--
The Left Reverend Plasm...@godisdead.com
Surely it was a conversation between a Muslim and a Hindu that ran:
"There is one God."
"How odd, I know of hundreds."
"My God is the only God."
"I know a dozen 'only' Gods."
There's no more proof for the existence of God than there is for the
existence of the Easter Bunny. That's right. The Easter Fucking Bunny.
-- Stryder, on alt.atheism
Ichimusai
> On 06 Apr 2002 17:46:13 +0200, Ichimusai <ic...@ichimusai.org> wrote:
>
> >Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> writes:
> >
> >> Anyway, we all were in agreement that we'd accept a one-time 1/2
> >> hour time change and then just do away with it all together. No
> >> more changing the clock twice a year. That was our solution, but I
> >> wondered what other people thought about DST, so I did some Googling
> >> around and some reading and found the following link.
> >
> >I want to do away with the entire system we have. I'll go for
> >beats. We are global enough to not have to dabble with time zones any
> >more.
> >
> >Ichimusai's conversion page
> >http://ichimusai.org/beat/
> >
> >Swatch who invented the beats concept
> >http://www.swatch.com/
>
> There already is a universal time standard, called UTC ("Coordinated Universal
> TIme")
Universal Time Coordinate
> which IIRC, is GMT minus the summertime adjustements.
Rather GMT is defined from UTC
> It is what all the other time scales are derived from.
That depends if you are talking mathematically or socially :)
It still suffers from having 60 s / minute and 60 minutes / hour and
24 hours a day.
One beat is a 1/1000 of one day (24 h) and works better IMHO.
Ted King
> Mike Ruskai wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> >> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> >> it's worth?
>
> > Well, first, the actual reason for DST is agricultural. The idea was that
> > during the growing season, farmers would have the maximum amount of
> > daylight with which to work, without having to get up earlier.
>
> The amount of daylight is irrespective of the time on some clock.
> When the sun rises and the rooster crows, it's time to get up,
> regardless of the time on some man-made clock. I don't see why
> farmers would even bother with DST unless it involved having to deal
> with workers who had to be at work on-time according to some
> man-made clock.
>
A lot of people keep saying DST was at least partially due to farmers
wanting the change so there might be something to it; but I'm with
you, I just don't see why a farmer would change his farming routine
that much because of a time change in clocks.
Here's an interesting short history:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html
An interesting excerpt:
"Following the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo, Congress put most of the nation
on extended Daylight Saving Time for two years in hopes of saving
additional energy. This experiment worked, but Congress did not
continue the experiment in 1975 because of opposition -- mostly from
the farming states."
It seems if farmers were so gung-ho to have DST it sure would have
been odd for there to have been so much opposition from farming states
to keeping the extended DST.
Ted
[snip]
Ted King
>
> > Elroy Willis wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> >> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> >> it's worth?
>
> > Well, first, the actual reason for DST is agricultural. The idea was that
> > during the growing season, farmers would have the maximum amount of
> > daylight with which to work, without having to get up earlier.
>
> The amount of daylight is irrespective of the time on some clock.
> When the sun rises and the rooster crows, it's time to get up,
> regardless of the time on some man-made clock. I don't see why
> farmers would even bother with DST unless it involved having to deal
> with workers who had to be at work on-time according to some
> man-made clock.
>
And here's another quote that supports the notion that farmers aren't
the ones pushing DST:
"Another complaint is sometimes put forth by people who wake at dawn,
or whose schedule's are otherwise tied to sunrise, such as farmers.
Farmers often dislike the clocks changing mid year. Canadian poultry
producer Marty Notenbomer notes, "The chickens do not adapt to the
changed clock until several weeks have gone by so the first week of
April and the last week of October are very frustrating for us."
From:
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
Ted
Bored With the Bitch
Yeah, while we're at it, lets start measuring angles in grads.
>One beat is a 1/1000 of one day (24 h) and works better IMHO.
Didn't the French try that about the same time they invented the metric
system? Something like a 10 hour day, with each hour subdivided into 100
minutes and each minute further subdivided into 100 seconds, each 864ms in
duration according to the current time scale.
I don't have a problem with either way as long as it is universally agreed on.
Since anyone can set thier conputer's clock to UTC (as opposed to searching
out or creating a bit of software to count beats), I would tend to favour UTC.
At any rate, you've given me an idea for another 8052 project. ;-)
Ichimusai
No! NO! Radians!
> >One beat is a 1/1000 of one day (24 h) and works better IMHO.
>
> Didn't the French try that about the same time they invented the
> metric system? Something like a 10 hour day, with each hour
> subdivided into 100 minutes and each minute further subdivided into
> 100 seconds, each 864ms in duration according to the current time
> scale.
The french revolutionary calendar. Yep. Did not gain much of success
though unfortunately. I don't know about the details and if they
changed their time as well as the calendar... There is probably
something about it on the wibble but I am too lazy to look it up right
now.
> I don't have a problem with either way as long as it is universally
> agreed on. Since anyone can set thier conputer's clock to UTC (as
> opposed to searching out or creating a bit of software to count
> beats), I would tend to favour UTC.
Well that is another solution :)
> At any rate, you've given me an idea for another 8052 project. ;-)
:-)
--
AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
Support the ASCII ribbon campaign - No HTML, RTF or MS Word in mail
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"Plagues are good and God knows this. Without them he couldn't teach
us how to stop them."
-- Jerry Myers, alt.atheism
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote
> http://www.energy.ca.gov/daylightsaving.html
> An interesting excerpt:
Perhaps we can get some input from Mr. Douglas, our resident
Pstychologist to see how pigs react to daylight saving time.
stoney
Bitch"), Message ID:
<7C775F286341667B.4F02C4B7...@lp.airnews.net>
wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 21:21:59 -0600, Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote:
>
>>georgann <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>>
>>> Elroy Willis:
>>>> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>>>> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>>>> just leaving it there from then on.
>>
>>>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>>> it's worth?
>>
>>> georgann:
>>> I think its a royal pain. And I never did believe that baloney they give
>>> about it being for the sake of the children at bus stops. That's just their
>>> excuse.
>>
>>Who do you think was pushing that idea? I can remember hearing
>>it from somewhere other than the guy at work, but I can't remember
>>the first time I heard it.
>
>I think it was originally instigated to give farmers and other rural types an
>extra hour to do thier chores.
That was my understanding as well.
(snip)
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
Mark Richardson
wrote:
>
>Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
>why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
>have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
>change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
>new applications are being deployed.
>
>One guy said that the reason it first started was to protect children
>who were waiting for their school buses in the morning.
I've never heard that before - and it doesn't make sense.
>The above link goes into some detail about the energy savings
>during DST, which was what I thought was the main reason for
>it in the first place. That and people liking an extra hour of
>daylight at the end of their workday during the summer months
>to do stuff outside.
That is the reason I hear most often - that it gives you more time to
enjoy "outside daylight activities" after work.
Get down to the beach and get in an extra hours surfing dude!
I don't surf.
>Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
>the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
>just leaving it there from then on.
>
>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>it's worth?
DST is an irritation - I would rather it was done away with
altogether.
In my original home state of Western Australia they don't have DST -
several times they have held a referendum to ask people if they want
it and every time it has been rejected.
The more populous states of australia all have it - and probably the
majority of people like it - although their "reasons" are mostly
rubbish in my humble opinion.
I don't see any advantages to it and the (admittedly minor)
disadvantages are enough to make me want it to go away.
Mark.
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson
wrote:
>http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
>
>Rationale & original idea
>The main purpose of Daylight Saving Time (called "Summer Time" many places
>in the world) is to make better use of daylight. A poll done by the U.S.
>Department of Transportation indicated that Americans liked Daylight Saving
>Time because "there is more light in the evenings / can do more in the
>evenings." A 1976 survey of 2.7 million citizens in New South Wales found
>68% liked daylight saving.
>
That happens in summer anyway.
In my home state of Western Australia they don't have daylight savings
time and every summer the days are longer and the light lasts into the
evening.
I wonder if people who have lived all their lives in places with
daylight saving realize that the tilt of the earth on its axis of
rotation has anything to do with what they *percieve* as a benifit of
DST?
>Daylight Saving Time also saves energy. Studies done by the U.S. Department
>of Transportation show that Daylight Saving Time trims the entire country's
>electricity usage by a significant, but small amount, of less than one
>percent each day with Daylight Saving Time. We save energy in both the
>evening and the morning because we use less electricity for lighting and
>appliances. Similarly, In New Zealand, power companies have found that power
>usage decreases 3.5% when daylight saving starts. In the first week, peak
>evening consumption commonly drops around 5%.
>
I can understand the evening reduction but why the morning reduction?
"Gee its dark - i'll leave the lights off" ?????
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Do you have an explanation?
>Energy use and the demand for electricity for lighting our homes is directly
>connected to when we go to bed and when we get up. Bedtime for most of us is
>late evening through the year. When we go to bed, we turn off the lights and
>TV. In the average home, 25 percent of all the electricity we use is for
>lighting and small appliances, such as TVs, VCRs and stereos. A good
>percentage of energy consumed by lighting and appliances occurs in the
>evening when families are home. By moving the clock ahead one hour, we can
>cut the amount of electricity we consume each day.
I can see that this could work.
This is the only "advantage" of DST I have ever heard of that isnt
purely based on subjective opinion.
I am impressed.
Mark Richardson
wrote:
>Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
>that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
>so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
>another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
>anyone else hear of this?
>
That is odd.
I have heard exactly the oposite - that farmers don't like DST because
they have cows that cant read clocks and they get used to being milked
at a certain time of day - they wander towards the milking sheds on
their own etc.
Whenever they try and introduce DST in Western Australia and hold a
referndum on it the change is largely supported in the coastal cities
and oppossed in the inland country and farming area's.
I can't imagine any possible advantage for farmers.
>Remebering when to switch and which way to turn the clocks is kind of
>a pain, but I do like the extra daylight in the evenings. I guess I'm
>one of those diurnal critters.
I have trouble sleeping at the best of times, and the 1 hour change is
enough to upset my sleep patterns for about a week.
I am one of these people that often wakes 30 seconds before my alarm
goes off - when I change the clocks I cant simply change my internal
one - it takes about a week to adjust my "internal clock".
Meteorite Debris
Richardson<m.rich...@utas.edu.au> sent a radio signal across the
vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
> On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:52:33 GMT, "jan_49" <tpowers_@_justice.com>
> wrote:
>
> >http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html
> >
> >Rationale & original idea
> >The main purpose of Daylight Saving Time (called "Summer Time" many places
> >in the world) is to make better use of daylight. A poll done by the U.S.
> >Department of Transportation indicated that Americans liked Daylight Saving
> >Time because "there is more light in the evenings / can do more in the
> >evenings." A 1976 survey of 2.7 million citizens in New South Wales found
> >68% liked daylight saving.
> >
> That happens in summer anyway.
> In my home state of Western Australia they don't have daylight savings
> time and every summer the days are longer and the light lasts into the
> evening.
> I wonder if people who have lived all their lives in places with
> daylight saving realize that the tilt of the earth on its axis of
> rotation has anything to do with what they *percieve* as a benifit of
> DST?
I lived in WA for 10 years and they tried DST for one year but most
people did not like it. I don't have any probs with DST myself. I like
the 1 hr extra of sunlight. I do not turn my lights until 8.30 in
summer. The only time I did not like DST was during an electricity
shortage when I was living in Sydney. DST was extended by about 1
month and by the end the mornings were getting dark.
--
apatriot #1, atheist #1417, rot-13 on email reply
EAC Bicycle Salesman to marine vertebrates -
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Kerry
>
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:55:19 -0800, johac <jha...@remove.ixpres.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
> >that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
> >so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
> >another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
> >anyone else hear of this?
> >
> That is odd.
> I have heard exactly the oposite - that farmers don't like DST because
> they have cows that cant read clocks and they get used to being milked
> at a certain time of day - they wander towards the milking sheds on
> their own etc.
That is true with a mature herd. The older cows do start heading for the
milking shed on their own and the younger ones go with the herd. We used
to let the dogs go and get them on their own and all that was necessary
for us was open the appropriate gates between their paddock and the shed.
> Whenever they try and introduce DST in Western Australia and hold a
> referndum on it the change is largely supported in the coastal cities
> and oppossed in the inland country and farming area's.
> I can't imagine any possible advantage for farmers.
It's mostly a curse because the kids (if any) have to go to school an hour
earlier in the morning, and then come home in the heat of what is actually
right in the hottest part of the day. In a rural town like Dubbo in NSW,
the sun rises about twenty minutes later than it does in Sydney which means
that in *real* local time the kids are heading home at about 2 pm and then
they have another 5 hours of temperatures averaging +30C (above 90F) for
more than 100 days of their summer. The other thing that annoys the rural
farmers (as opposed to the rural townies) is that all the nearest towns
close for business an hour earlier, which to put it in a city dweller's
terms is like having everything shut shop about 3-30 pm in Sydney. Mad.
> >Remembering when to switch and which way to turn the clocks is kind of
> >a pain, but I do like the extra daylight in the evenings. I guess I'm
> >one of those diurnal critters.
>
> I have trouble sleeping at the best of times, and the 1 hour change is
> enough to upset my sleep patterns for about a week.
> I am one of these people that often wakes 30 seconds before my alarm
> goes off - when I change the clocks I cant simply change my internal
> one - it takes about a week to adjust my "internal clock".
>
> Mark.
For years (at least 12) I have started my day, when working on a building
contract, at 3 am. I have never, to my recollection, ever been asleep when
the alarm goes off. There have been many times when I have woken up just
a minute or so before it was due to find I hadn't even set it. Mostly I
look at it, put my hand over the kill button, and let it make just one beep.
My little kelpie dog and me both take a week or so to adjust because I feed
her at the same time I have a beer at 4 pm - by the clock. I still have to
fit my daily routine around the rest of the community, so the dog is still
confused from last week's change as to why the food isn't coming. She paws
at the cupboard door where her food is for a few days, sticks real close for
a few more, and then after about a week seems to be settling, but not quite.
Kerry
johac
Richardson <m.rich...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:55:19 -0800, johac <jha...@remove.ixpres.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Another reason that I heard of, but is not mentioned in the link, is
> >that farmers advocated the switch becuase they did not like getting up
> >so early in the morning to take care of their livestock. DST gave them
> >another hour in the evenings which they could use for leisure. Did
> >anyone else hear of this?
> >
> That is odd.
> I have heard exactly the oposite - that farmers don't like DST because
> they have cows that cant read clocks and they get used to being milked
> at a certain time of day - they wander towards the milking sheds on
> their own etc.
The In summer, the sun rises earlier, but the cows don't know that.
they probably just go by the amount of daylight. DST wouldn't affect
the cows, but it would alow the farmers to get another hour of sleep.
> Whenever they try and introduce DST in Western Australia and hold a
> referndum on it the change is largely supported in the coastal cities
> and oppossed in the inland country and farming area's.
> I can't imagine any possible advantage for farmers.
If the farmer had to get up earlier, he would likely want to go to bed
earlier too. The change might give him a little more time to do things
in the evening. I believe, however, that on a small family farm,
there wouldn't much leisure time anyway. Personally, I think that the
energy saving idea is the more likely reason for DST.
>
> >Remebering when to switch and which way to turn the clocks is kind of
> >a pain, but I do like the extra daylight in the evenings. I guess I'm
> >one of those diurnal critters.
>
> I have trouble sleeping at the best of times, and the 1 hour change is
> enough to upset my sleep patterns for about a week.
> I am one of these people that often wakes 30 seconds before my alarm
> goes off - when I change the clocks I cant simply change my internal
> one - it takes about a week to adjust my "internal clock".
Same here, but I do like having the extra hour of sunlight in the
evening.
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
>
> Member of S.M.A.S.H.
> (Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).
Antoon Pardon
>
> Personally, I wouldn't mind doing away with it and just moving
> the clock forward 1/2 hour at some future beginning of DST and
> just leaving it there from then on.
>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
I think it is more of a pain than it's worth.
First of all it's the kids. People like to have the extra hour
of light in the evening. Well this extra hour of light makes
it more difficult for the kids to go asleep in time because they
have to wake in time the next morning.
The kids are also less responsive in school, less attentive more cranky and
more prone to fall asleep during class. Kids also take less notice of
the clock and are hungry when their stomach tells them so and not
because the clock says it is dinner time.
Second there are the older and sick people. People who already have
enough helath problems without some artificially clock change which
means they are suddenly woken up an hour earlier.
For all those who like to have an extra hour of light, get up
an hour early, it is what you do with DST anyway, without forcing
other to do so too.
--
Antoon Pardon
Chas Douglass
[snip]
>
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
>
I hate it. Do away with it. I've argued against it for years.
I think we are stuck in a "we've always done it this way". I've never
found a convincing reason to continue doing it (the last time I researched
it, several years ago, the most believable explanation I found was the
farmers of some years ago getting an extra hour for chores).
I would join a "do away with DST" movement in a heartbeat.
Chas Douglass
Randy Day
Heh. One of the few benefits of living where
I do is that I don't have to contend with the
twice-yearly Changing of the Clocks. I don't
hear the farmers complaining about lost
productivity, either.
Of course, the rest of you get me back by
changing the times of all my favorite shows... :p
>
> Chas Douglass
R
Atheist Chair,
EAC Disciplinary Committee
--
Remove any occurrence of the letter 'x'
from my email address to send me email.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in
>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>> it's worth?
> I hate it. Do away with it. I've argued against it for years.
> I think we are stuck in a "we've always done it this way". I've never
> found a convincing reason to continue doing it (the last time I researched
> it, several years ago, the most believable explanation I found was the
> farmers of some years ago getting an extra hour for chores).
I don't think farmers are for it. From what I've read so far, most
of 'em seem to be against it. If you're talking about gardeners
who like the extra hour to work in their vegetable or flower gardens,
that's a different things.
> I would join a "do away with DST" movement in a heartbeat.
I don't absolutely hate it, but I find it inconvenient. I'd probably
vote for getting rid of it if a vote was ever taken.
Elroy Willis
> Of course, the rest of you get me back by
> changing the times of all my favorite shows... :p
That's what VCR's are for. :-)
Ted King
:)
Ted
MrD. Pstychologist
I'm currently involved in a multimillion microcent study of the daylight
saving time question.
I have seperated the pigs into different 'time zones' within the building
and have noticed that those that prefer to get up early in the morning and
go right to work are all assholes.
Those that prefer to sleep in, slowly get up, eat, then laze about all day,
then do just a bit of work late in the evening are seemingly the best sort
of pigs around.
Of those pigs, I told some of them that they'd have to get up an hour
earlier cuz the clock said something different, and they said.. yeah.. oink
this, human.
All in all, I think more money should be spent, because I ran out of
beverages with any alcohol content and that was an important part of the
next test.
Please send donations.
MrD Pstychologist.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote
>> Perhaps we can get some input from Mr. Douglas, our resident
>> Pstychologist to see how pigs react to daylight saving time.
> :)
I guess Doug hasn't been reading the group lately.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in message
>> lod...@yahoo.com (Ted King) wrote in alt.atheism
<snip>
>>> It seems if farmers were so gung-ho to have DST it sure would have
>>> been odd for there to have been so much opposition from farming
>>> states to keeping the extended DST.
>> Perhaps we can get some input from Mr. Douglas, our resident
>> Pstychologist to see how pigs react to daylight saving time.
> I'm currently involved in a multimillion microcent study of the daylight
> saving time question.
Oink oink?
> I have seperated the pigs into different 'time zones' within the building
> and have noticed that those that prefer to get up early in the morning
> and go right to work are all assholes.
Ah yes, that'd be the McEarlyOinker clan and their ilk.
> Those that prefer to sleep in, slowly get up, eat, then laze about all day,
> then do just a bit of work late in the evening are seemingly the best sort
> of pigs around.
Ah, that's the McMellowOinker clan. I hear there's a battle going on
between the two groups of oinkers. McMellowOinker meat is said to be
much more tender than McEarlyOikner meat.
> Of those pigs, I told some of them that they'd have to get up an hour
> earlier cuz the clock said something different, and they said.. yeah.. oink
> this, human.
Those were obviously the McMellowOinkers.
> All in all, I think more money should be spent, because I ran out of
> beverages with any alcohol content and that was an important part
> of the next test.
Oh my, we can't have that.
> Please send donations.
</me Paypal's some beer money to Mr. D>
The Plasmatron
I despise it. I loathe it. I may get into politics just so I can get
a vote going on it.
Well, that wouldn't be the *only* reason, but it sure seems like a
good one right now :P
Orhan Orgun
wrote:
>
>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>it's worth?
Nope, I love DST.
My idea is this: try to keep it light as late as possible in the
evening while not keeping it dark too long in the morning.
If we suppose that 6 am is the absolute latest hour in the morning
when we want no more darkness (say), then the idea is this: it does
not improve your quality of life to get it to be light at four in the
morning--who gives a fuck, really. But to have it light until 9 pm as
oppose to 8 pm, well, that is a major improvement. Further, that's not
just a little whim either. For those of us stricken with seasonal
affective disorder, DST is actually quite a life saver.
__________________________________________
Orhan Orgun aa#1867
Relax, don't worry, have a home-brew
Note: you need to de-"bug" the e-mail address to e-mail me!
Warner
want to get credit for it. I don't like for somebody to be calling it 6.
MrD. Pstychologist
> lod...@yahoo.com (Ted King) wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote
>
> >> Perhaps we can get some input from Mr. Douglas, our resident
> >> Pstychologist to see how pigs react to daylight saving time.
>
> > :)
>
> I guess Doug hasn't been reading the group lately.
Yes, you'd be right!
I just stumbled across this.
Hard to read them all.
MrD Pstychologist
Beowulf
>
>Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
>why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
>have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
>change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
>new applications are being deployed.
I hate DST. I also happen to hate DST. Oh and by the way, I hate
DST. There's nothing quite like state-mandated jet-lag for no good
reason other than, and I quote a roommate from college, so there's an
extra hour to play golf in the summer.
It's utterly stupid. Leave the fucking clock alone!
---
EAC Eater of Meatpies
Atheist #1942, Zymurgist #9
"It is the dice, in fact, that play God with the universe."
tos...@aol.com ab...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com
ab...@msn.com ab...@sprint.com ab...@earthlink.com u...@ftc.gov
postm...@attglobal.net ab...@pacbell.net live...@icrmedia.org
Chas Douglass
I don't think it makes a difference at all to modern farmers. My point
was "farmers of some years ago" as in "before electricity was common in
rural (farm) areas".
Chas Douglass
Chas Douglass
news:a8tv5h$ocs$1...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu:
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:14:40 -0500 Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>
> wrote:
>> Chas Douglass <ch...@nospam.floogle.net> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>>> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in
>
>>>> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>>> it's worth?
>
>>> I hate it. Do away with it. I've argued against it for years.
>
>>> I think we are stuck in a "we've always done it this way". I've
>>> never found a convincing reason to continue doing it (the last time
>>> I researched it, several years ago, the most believable explanation
>>> I found was the farmers of some years ago getting an extra hour for
>>> chores).
>
>> I don't think farmers are for it. From what I've read so far, most
>> of 'em seem to be against it. If you're talking about gardeners
>> who like the extra hour to work in their vegetable or flower gardens,
>> that's a different things.
>
>>> I would join a "do away with DST" movement in a heartbeat.
>
>> I don't absolutely hate it, but I find it inconvenient. I'd probably
>> vote for getting rid of it if a vote was ever taken.
>
> I despise it. I loathe it. I may get into politics just so I can
> get
> a vote going on it.
> Well, that wouldn't be the *only* reason, but it sure seems like a
> good one right now :P
>
You have my vote.
Chas Douglass
Mr. Vega
...
> What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
> it's worth?
I don't like it, esp. if you have to drive to or from work from E-W, and
the sun comes up at a time where it's in your eyes. Basically, the sun
becomes a problem, then the problem is over, then they switch the clocks,
and you get to go through the whole thing again. I'm too lazy to remember
the details of this, but it was a problem a few years back.
Another thing is what it does to your waking cycle. Yesterday, I slept
through my alarm (which was correctly put ahead) and woke up at the same
time I usually do (by the old time.) It's funny... I came in to work an
hour late, and people figured I didn't set my clocks. In fact, I did,
but my body didn't adjust.
And now it's a real pain. Yesterday, I slept a few hours after work, and
couldn't sleep at all last night. I got, what, 4 hours over 2 days? And
all this pissing around for no discernable reason? I say, scrap it.
Jack.
Bored With the Bitch
wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:36:43 -0600, Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>it's worth?
>
>
>Nope, I love DST.
>
>My idea is this: try to keep it light as late as possible in the
>evening while not keeping it dark too long in the morning.
>
>If we suppose that 6 am is the absolute latest hour in the morning
>when we want no more darkness (say), then the idea is this: it does
>not improve your quality of life to get it to be light at four in the
>morning--who gives a fuck, really. But to have it light until 9 pm as
>oppose to 8 pm, well, that is a major improvement. Further, that's not
>just a little whim either. For those of us stricken with seasonal
>affective disorder, DST is actually quite a life saver.
Leaving full spectrum lights on 24/7 also helps.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
| -- Bardic Motto
Awarded title of "Defacto CLuM" by "kansan" 2001-05-12
======
At one point in time, many of us actually had Jesus as
our personal lord and saviour. Unfortunately, we later
had to dismiss him for incompetence, gross negligence,
misconduct and consistent failure to show up for work.
======
Religious people believe IN god.
The religious right believes they ARE god.
======
"Hey, who needs a conscience when jeezuz died for our sins?"
-- Ahriman
====
Awarded "Brazen Sinner Medal First Class" 2002-02-09 by Georgann Chenault
Mike Ruskai
>I am not in favor of daylight saving time. If I get up at 5 in the morning, I
>want to get credit for it. I don't like for somebody to be calling it 6.
Ah, but what if you stay up until 5, and get credit for staying up until 6?
--
- Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
Elroy Willis
> On 8 Apr 2002 23:54:24 -0700, Warner wrote:
>> I am not in favor of daylight saving time. If I get up at 5 in the morning, I
>> want to get credit for it. I don't like for somebody to be calling it 6.
> Ah, but what if you stay up until 5, and get credit for staying up until 6?
Heh.
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> ejaculated:
>> Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
>> why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
>> have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
>> change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
>> new applications are being deployed.
> I hate DST. I also happen to hate DST. Oh and by the way, I hate
> DST. There's nothing quite like state-mandated jet-lag for no good
> reason other than, and I quote a roommate from college, so there's an
> extra hour to play golf in the summer.
> It's utterly stupid. Leave the fucking clock alone!
Does that mean you're against it?
The Plasmatron
> Mike Ruskai wrote in alt.atheism
>> On 8 Apr 2002 23:54:24 -0700, Warner wrote:
>>> I am not in favor of daylight saving time. If I get up at 5 in the morning, I
>>> want to get credit for it. I don't like for somebody to be calling it 6.
>> Ah, but what if you stay up until 5, and get credit for staying up until 6?
> Heh.
Bah. Staying up is easy. It's trying to get to sleep before dawn
that kills me off.
David Empey
> "But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
>
> When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
> didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
> bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
>
I doubt that DST was started to help school children, but I feel
obliged to point out that putting clocks back an hour in the fall
allows children to go to school an hour later--i.e. when it's
lighter.
My own favorite scheme is that we should all go to a 25-hour day.
Just think, an extra hour of sleep every night! I bet people
would look forward to the weekends when they could go to bed early.
Of course we'd only be in sync with the sun for a few days every
3 or 4 weeks, but that's why Edison invented the light bulb, right?
--
Dave Empey
Orhan Orgun
the Bitch") wrote:
>On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:22:49 -0700, Orhan Orgun <orhanb...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:36:43 -0600, Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>>it's worth?
>>
>>
>>Nope, I love DST.
>>
>>My idea is this: try to keep it light as late as possible in the
>>evening while not keeping it dark too long in the morning.
>>
>>If we suppose that 6 am is the absolute latest hour in the morning
>>when we want no more darkness (say), then the idea is this: it does
>>not improve your quality of life to get it to be light at four in the
>>morning--who gives a fuck, really. But to have it light until 9 pm as
>>oppose to 8 pm, well, that is a major improvement. Further, that's not
>>just a little whim either. For those of us stricken with seasonal
>>affective disorder, DST is actually quite a life saver.
>
>Leaving full spectrum lights on 24/7 also helps.
>
>
Yeah, but not enough. It just frickin kills me when it's already dark
when I leave my office. It's like life has already ended by the time
I'm done with work. What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland
in the summer and in Australia during *their* summer.
The Plasmatron
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in
> news:E97360BB21161F25.80B76B87...@lp.airnews.net:
>> "But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
>>
>> When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
>> didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
>> bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
>>
> I doubt that DST was started to help school children, but I feel
> obliged to point out that putting clocks back an hour in the fall
> allows children to go to school an hour later--i.e. when it's
> lighter.
> My own favorite scheme is that we should all go to a 25-hour day.
> Just think, an extra hour of sleep every night! I bet people
> would look forward to the weekends when they could go to bed early.
Actually you'd have to go to more than 25 to get that effect. Our
natural rhythem is a 25 hour day, so a 26 hour day would have us looking
forward to going to bed early.
> Of course we'd only be in sync with the sun for a few days every
> 3 or 4 weeks, but that's why Edison invented the light bulb, right?
Sounds good to me :)
Alan Dechert
>It still suffers from having 60 s / minute and 60 minutes / hour and
>24 hours a day.
>
Suffers? 60 is a good number since it has many factors. It is evenly
divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, and 12.
1000 is evenly divisible by 2, 4, 5, 8, and 10 but not 3, 6, nor 12.
This is one of the main reasons metric time is not very popular.
Here is a page on metric time.
http://www.zapatopi.net/metriclink.html
As has been pointed out, to eliminate time zones is a no-brainer: you can just
use UTC.
--Alan Dechert
http://www.go2zero.com/adechert/
David Empey
news:Xns91EBEA99497A...@216.148.53.84:
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in
> news:E97360BB21161F25.80B76B87...@lp.airnews.net:
>
>> "But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
>>
>> When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
>> didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
>> bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
>>
>
> I doubt that DST was started to help school children, but I feel
> obliged to point out that putting clocks back an hour in the fall
> allows children to go to school an hour later--i.e. when it's
> lighter.
>
Oops. I just realized that this is irrelevant to your argument.
Never mind!
--
Dave Empey
Elroy Willis
> David Empey <dem...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote in
>>> "But it helps in the winter because it's lighter earlier, he claimed."
>>> When I pointed out that DST was turned ON in the spring, he
>>> didn't have a reply. If it were instituted to protect children at the
>>> bus stops, it would have been turned ON in the fall, not OFF.
>> I doubt that DST was started to help school children, but I feel
>> obliged to point out that putting clocks back an hour in the fall
>> allows children to go to school an hour later--i.e. when it's
>> lighter.
But that's the point. The clock goes back to normal in the
fall. You aren't rolling the clock back an hour, you're just
setting it back to standard time. I guess some people don't
seem to understand that.
>> My own favorite scheme is that we should all go to a 25-hour day.
>> Just think, an extra hour of sleep every night! I bet people
>> would look forward to the weekends when they could go to bed early.
> Actually you'd have to go to more than 25 to get that effect. Our
> natural rhythem is a 25 hour day, so a 26 hour day would have us looking
> forward to going to bed early.
>> Of course we'd only be in sync with the sun for a few days every
>> 3 or 4 weeks, but that's why Edison invented the light bulb, right?
> Sounds good to me :)
That might work on something like a space station, but not here
on Earth unless you just don't really care about the sun at all.
Elroy Willis
> David Empey <dem...@cruzio.com> wrote in
>> I doubt that DST was started to help school children, but I feel
>> obliged to point out that putting clocks back an hour in the fall
>> allows children to go to school an hour later--i.e. when it's
>> lighter.
> Oops. I just realized that this is irrelevant to your argument.
> Never mind!
Figured it out for yourself, eh? :-)
Elroy Willis
> What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland in the summer
> and in Australia during *their* summer.
What's stopping you?
stoney
<orhanb...@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<vdq8buofh5oimf5fp...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 21:36:57 GMT, fire...@airmail.net ("Bored With
>the Bitch") wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 10:22:49 -0700, Orhan Orgun <orhanb...@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:36:43 -0600, Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>What do others think about this? Is DST more of a pain than
>>>>it's worth?
>>>
>>>
>>>Nope, I love DST.
>>>
>>>My idea is this: try to keep it light as late as possible in the
>>>evening while not keeping it dark too long in the morning.
>>>
>>>If we suppose that 6 am is the absolute latest hour in the morning
>>>when we want no more darkness (say), then the idea is this: it does
>>>not improve your quality of life to get it to be light at four in the
>>>morning--who gives a fuck, really. But to have it light until 9 pm as
>>>oppose to 8 pm, well, that is a major improvement. Further, that's not
>>>just a little whim either. For those of us stricken with seasonal
>>>affective disorder, DST is actually quite a life saver.
>>
>>Leaving full spectrum lights on 24/7 also helps.
>>
>>
>
>
>Yeah, but not enough. It just frickin kills me when it's already dark
>when I leave my office. It's like life has already ended by the time
>I'm done with work. What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland
>in the summer and in Australia during *their* summer.
/me blinks and has trouble with 'summer' and 'Scotland' in the same
sentence *especially* when an Australian summer is mentioned too.
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
Dave W
I gather that summer in Scotland is not so summer-ish...
--
Dave W a.a. #1967
ROT e-mail addy in header
Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?
I think so Brain, but this time you put the trousers on the chimp.
The Plasmatron
I hate the sun. It hurts my skin and eyes to be exposed to it even
when I wear glasses and apply sunblock. I do not ever wish to be exposed
to direct sunlight ever again for any reason.
Orhan Orgun
> stoney wrote in alt.atheism:
>
> >>
> >>Yeah, but not enough. It just frickin kills me when it's already dark
> >>when I leave my office. It's like life has already ended by the time
> >>I'm done with work. What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland
> >>in the summer and in Australia during *their* summer.
> >
> > /me blinks and has trouble with 'summer' and 'Scotland' in the same
> > sentence *especially* when an Australian summer is mentioned too.
> > --
> >
> >
> I gather that summer in Scotland is not so summer-ish...
It's very nice and summerish. The best.
It rains a little everyday ands a lot on many days.
However, that ain't no problem for me. Scotland is far enough to the
north that sunset isn't until some insane hour in the summer. If yuou
go up to the Orkneys, which is the farthest north I've been, then 10
to 11 pm is when it finally gets dark. Lovely!
Besides, I really love Scotland. What a beautiful place. Not like
California or the SW, where you go to special places, say wow, then go
back home. In Scotland, every friggin place you go to (with the
exception of a couple of cities whose names need not be mentioned) is
really beautiful. Every day, everthing you look at... Really makes a
difference for me. That and the long days.
In this context, it should make sense that I would want to go as far
South as possible during winter in the Northern hemisphere. Add to
that the restriction that I would like to live in an English speaking
country, you'll see that Australia is a good choice. The *south* of
Australia, of course.
Orhan Orgun
> Orhan Orgun <orhanb...@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
> > What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland in the summer
> > and in Australia during *their* summer.
>
> What's stopping you?
job... Linguistics is a very small field. Phonology is a *tiny* field.
When I got this job at Davis, there were about 100 of us looking for
jobs in the US and Canada, and a grand total of *six* permanent
positions. 67 people applied for the job I got that year. The job
market being this way, I would not dream of going anywhere now that I
managed to got me this job.
Of course there is the option of going into a different line of work,
but I feel that for someone suffering from seratonin deficiency, it's
probably a good idea to not quit a line of work that he really really
enjoys.
Dave W
> Dave W <yermon...@mydoor.netinvalid> wrote in message
> news:<Xns91ED99866...@199.45.49.11>...
>> stoney wrote in alt.atheism:
>>
>> >>
>> >>Yeah, but not enough. It just frickin kills me when it's already
>> >>dark when I leave my office. It's like life has already ended by
>> >>the time I'm done with work. What I'd *really* like to do is live
>> >>in Scotland in the summer and in Australia during *their* summer.
>> >
>> > /me blinks and has trouble with 'summer' and 'Scotland' in the same
>> > sentence *especially* when an Australian summer is mentioned too.
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> I gather that summer in Scotland is not so summer-ish...
>
> It's very nice and summerish. The best.
I guess it would be nice compared to sweaty Sac-ramento...;)
>
> It rains a little everyday ands a lot on many days.
I often work (when not laid off) outside... I am not really impressed with
rain at this point.
>
> However, that ain't no problem for me. Scotland is far enough to the
> north that sunset isn't until some insane hour in the summer. If yuou
> go up to the Orkneys, which is the farthest north I've been, then 10
> to 11 pm is when it finally gets dark. Lovely!
>
> Besides, I really love Scotland. What a beautiful place. Not like
> California or the SW, where you go to special places, say wow, then go
> back home. In Scotland, every friggin place you go to (with the
> exception of a couple of cities whose names need not be mentioned) is
> really beautiful. Every day, everthing you look at... Really makes a
> difference for me. That and the long days.
Living in SoCal I will agree with your California assessment but IMHO
Arizonia is a beautiful state.
Scotland is one of the places I would love to see.
June Gill
<beowulf_i...@hotmail.com> writes
>On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:36:43 -0600, Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net>
>ejaculated:
>
>>
>>Some of us were talking about Daylight Saving Time at work today and
>>why it was started, and if we'd mind if it was done away with. We
>>have to make sure all our software applications will handle the time
>>change without any bugs, so it's sort of a pain sometimes when
>>new applications are being deployed.
>
>I hate DST. I also happen to hate DST. Oh and by the way, I hate
>DST. There's nothing quite like state-mandated jet-lag for no good
>reason other than, and I quote a roommate from college, so there's an
>extra hour to play golf in the summer.
>
>It's utterly stupid. Leave the fucking clock alone!
I think I must be in a minority of one - I love DST. Here in the north
of England, the lack of daylight in the evenings - from about 4 pm - is
depressing and it's a real boost when the clock goes forward and all the
neighbours start coming out into their gardens: we often have impromptu
parties if the weather is nice, just to enjoy being outside in daylight.
I've heard that the biggest party people in the world are Icelanders
because they appreciate the daylight so much that they go almost mad in
their celebration of it.
There's also the fact that in summer it gets light far too early here,
like 2.45 am, so making that 3.45 am does give some of us a chance to
get to bed in the dark.
Apparently during WWII the clocks were put forward two hours, not just
one (maybe it was WWI as well) as an economy measure to cut down on the
use of electricity.
--
June G
# 364
http://www.jgdodworth.demon.co.uk
Lord Calvert
>one (maybe it was WWI as well) as an economy measure to cut down on the
>use of electricity.
There was a time here when we went to Daylight Savings Time year round. They
decided it was a bad idea when the fatality rate of school children went
through the roof after being struck by school buses and other vehicles in the
dark because they now started school before dawn, particularly in the northern
parts of the country.
While DST may indeed be good for many things it is murder to school-age
children.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"If there is a god, must it be sane?" - Lucien LaCroix [Nigel Bennett] from
"Forever Knight"
stoney
<yermon...@mydoor.netinvalid>, Message ID:
<Xns91EE1CA72...@199.45.49.11> wrote in alt.atheism;
That's a different type of beauty.
>Scotland is one of the places I would love to see.
Indeed. Very highly recommended. Especially if you get off the 'beaten
track.'
If you do a web search on 'castles' then look for Scotland you'll see
pics of many different ones and many have links to pics of the local
area as well.
stoney
Message ID: <3c225542.02041...@posting.google.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
>Dave W <yermon...@mydoor.netinvalid> wrote in message news:<Xns91ED99866...@199.45.49.11>...
>> stoney wrote in alt.atheism:
>>
>> >>
>> >>Yeah, but not enough. It just frickin kills me when it's already dark
>> >>when I leave my office. It's like life has already ended by the time
>> >>I'm done with work. What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland
>> >>in the summer and in Australia during *their* summer.
>> >
>> > /me blinks and has trouble with 'summer' and 'Scotland' in the same
>> > sentence *especially* when an Australian summer is mentioned too.
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> I gather that summer in Scotland is not so summer-ish...
>
>It's very nice and summerish. The best.
Temps are more like a cool spring day in the U.S.
>It rains a little everyday ands a lot on many days.
Yeppers.
>However, that ain't no problem for me. Scotland is far enough to the
>north that sunset isn't until some insane hour in the summer. If yuou
>go up to the Orkneys, which is the farthest north I've been, then 10
>to 11 pm is when it finally gets dark. Lovely!
>
>Besides, I really love Scotland. What a beautiful place. Not like
>California or the SW, where you go to special places, say wow, then go
>back home. In Scotland, every friggin place you go to (with the
>exception of a couple of cities whose names need not be mentioned) is
>really beautiful. Every day, everthing you look at... Really makes a
>difference for me. That and the long days.
That is certainly a fact-the sheer beauty of the place. I was stationed
there for a year and a half back in the mid-70's. I went back for a
couple weeks back in '98 and even spent several hours in the area where
I was stationed and had a beer at a pub I used to frequent. :)
>In this context, it should make sense that I would want to go as far
>South as possible during winter in the Northern hemisphere. Add to
>that the restriction that I would like to live in an English speaking
>country, you'll see that Australia is a good choice. The *south* of
>Australia, of course.
--
Ted King
orhan...@hotmail.com (Orhan Orgun) wrote:
How about the New Zealand? Isn't that even further south; especially the
south island? A friend of mine just came back from there and said it was
beautiful and the critters were very pleasant; you hear a lot of
baa-baaing but you can usually find a few that speak English.
Ted
Orhan Orgun
Oh, I'd like that. Or, as they might say there in NZ, "yiis" (like
"yeast" w/o the [t]). I heard a buncha good stuff about NZ. And they
have a good linguistics dept somewhere in some univ too. Wait, do they
also have something close to gay marriage? There is a famous linguist
there who has a hyphenated last name, his and his mate's. Maybe he
just changed his name, but I wonder...
Meteorite Debris
Richardson<m.rich...@utas.edu.au> sent a radio signal across the
vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
> Whenever they try and introduce DST in Western Australia and hold a
> referndum on it the change is largely supported in the coastal cities
> and oppossed in the inland country and farming area's.
> I can't imagine any possible advantage for farmers.
When I lived in Perth most city folk were against the 1991 trial. With
Perth having over 72% of WA's population it was not only the rural
people who sank the subsequent referendum at the end of that trial.
Working shifts at the time myself, DST did not worry me. When you
change 8 hours every week a one hour adjustment at the start and end
of summer is nothing.
--
apatriot #1, atheist #1417, rot-13 on email reply
EAC Bicycle Salesman to marine vertebrates -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
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Al Klein
<ju...@jgbudworth.demon.co.uk> posted in alt.atheism:
>I think I must be in a minority of one - I love DST. Here in the north
>of England, the lack of daylight in the evenings -
Make that a minority of two, June. I look forward to it for weeks.
It's so nice to get out of the office when it's still light.
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
Zymurgist # 2
Ted King
Dunno; but I did find this web site:
Ted
Michelle Malkin
"Al Klein" <ruk...@pern.org> wrote in message
news:98tjbucp0csn9bhf9...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:22:03 +0100, June Gill
> <ju...@jgbudworth.demon.co.uk> posted in alt.atheism:
>
> >I think I must be in a minority of one - I love DST. Here in the north
> >of England, the lack of daylight in the evenings -
>
> Make that a minority of two, June. I look forward to it for weeks.
> It's so nice to get out of the office when it's still light.
Make that a minority of three. I hate coming home from work
in the dark. And, I like having time to start working on my
'garden' again when I can see what I'm doing. (At least, most
of the weeds have been replaced by grass. Progress, I guess.)
--
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
Kerry
That's the best laugh I've had so far today. Not *at* you, but what you
just wrote made me think.... some of the sheep "a few that speak English"
brings the perennial jokes about Kiwis and their sheep :) Thanks for that.
I spent the first 25 years of my life in NZ and the last few before 1968 were
in Christchurch in the South Island where the summers are very gentle and
the days 16 hours long. I don't know if the fact that 'Xena' and 'Hercules'
TV shows were all produced in Aotearoa (NZ) as well as 'Lord of the Rings'
movie just released have been seen by yourself or any reader but the scenery
*is* even better than it looks on the screen. My favourite spot; Queenstown.
Kerry
aa #1773
Elroy Willis
> Elroy Willis <e...@airmail.net> wrote
>> Orhan Orgun <orhanb...@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>>> What I'd *really* like to do is live in Scotland in the summer
>>> and in Australia during *their* summer.
>> What's stopping you?
> job... Linguistics is a very small field. Phonology is a *tiny* field.
> When I got this job at Davis, there were about 100 of us looking for
> jobs in the US and Canada, and a grand total of *six* permanent
> positions. 67 people applied for the job I got that year. The job
> market being this way, I would not dream of going anywhere now that I
> managed to got me this job.
> Of course there is the option of going into a different line of work,
> but I feel that for someone suffering from seratonin deficiency, it's
> probably a good idea to not quit a line of work that he really really
> enjoys.
Which area of phonology are you working in?
Orhan Orgun
The phonology-morphology interface, from a sign-based perspective.
Lately I've been branching out into SLA, though.
Why, you a phonologist too?