Bobby Fischer is playing Chess on ICS
Nuki Kensa
vze2...@mail.verizon.net
with another guest as described here. Playing openings like f3, Kf2, Ke3
as white, and e6, Qe7, Qf6 as black, he thoroughly trashed my 2400 rated
friend numerous times. If it's a hoax, it's a highly elaborate and
successful one.
ICS Administrator wrote:
> A N N O U N C E M E N T
>
> Since January 2001, the former World Chess Champion "Bobby" Fischer
> may have been regularly playing chess on several chess servers.
>
> He connects either using a Hungarian ISP (isys.hu), a German ISP, a
> French ISP or an English ISP. Apparently, he connects to "foreign"
> ones using a G.S.M. phone connection as the lag is unacceptable when
> connecting from Budapest. This "Fischer" plays only anonymously, and
> either refuses to give any identity, or refers to himself as "Mister
> James". Several of his opponents have liaised with GM Peter Leko, who
> is the only chess player with whom Fischer is in regular contact: it
> is reported that Leko has confirmed that Fischer is so playing.
>
> He plays at medium time controls (3 mins/game, or slower) and either
> plays Fischerandom(TM) chess or employs strange openings which often
> appear very insulting to his opponents. For example, he has been
> known to castle his King and Queen (f3 Kf2 Ke3 c3 Kd3 Kc2 Qe1 Kd1) -
> at least once followed by the same maneuver with his Queen - or to
> play his King to h4 or g5 within the first seven moves. He also has
> been known to play 1 min/game chess against anonymous opponents.
>
> Apparently, he has employed these bizarre techniques to great effect
> against many of the world's strongest players. It is understood that
> he has annihilated all his opposition to date, including the top GMs
> Shirov, Morozevich, Short, Piket and many others, utilizing exactly
> these openings. Certain GMs with FIDE ratings of 2700+ have been
> "crushed" (his term) with scores of 10-0 or worse.
>
> He is reported as having insisted on anonymity for different reasons:
> he doesn't wish his games to be reporoduced without royalty payments,
> he doesn't wish to contribute to the coffers of "Jewish-owned" chess
> servers, he doesn't wish his few losses to be reported without due
> prominence being given to his far more numerous victories - or he
> doesn't wish to encourage enforcement of the international arrest
> warrant for sanction-breaking that was served on him. He appears to
> be enraged if the subject of the identity of the World Champion is
> brought up, and expresses himself most strongly if reminded of Garry
> Kasparov's comment at a press conference on leaving an "old man" with
> his dignity. Great exception was taken to this remark, it seems.
>
> The possibility that this is some form of hoax has been investigated
> at great length by many chess experts, including the possibility that
> it is a very strong GM (but not Fischer) perhaps alternating in some
> way with a very powerful chess computer (a man-machine hybrid/cyborg).
> The moves of the known games have been fed to all of the leading
> computer chess "engines" (the top 20 on the last two "S.S.D.F" lists)
> and no match that is even remotely close has been identified. The
> games do contain mistakes, oversights and apparent mouse slips by the
> player from Hungary.
>
> A number of cynical GMs have put questions (of the sort only the
> genuine article would be expected to answer) to the person believed
> to be Fischer, and there have been no reports of any incorrect or
> avoided answers. For example, he is reported to have immediately
> correctly identified the Adams Mark Hotel as being the venue of a
> particular event, and recognized similarities between encountered
> positions and obscure past games played by Bobby Fischer, and of
> names and details of people and events in the life of Fischer.
>
> I am a US National Master and an administrator at the most popular
> Internet chess server. I have examined the connection and interface
> logs for this person both on "my" server and on that of FICS. It is
> my considered opinion that the chess-playing is 100% human and that
> the person is (one or more) phenomenally strong GM(s). I believe it
> is a distinct likelihood that at least some of the games were indeed
> played by Bobby Fischer, and that he is at least as strong as he was
> in that first game at Sveti Stefan in 1992. To be honest, I cannot
> imagine that any other player besides Kasparov could play this way
> and still win almost all the games, and Garry would have absolutely
> no conceivable motivation for such an action.
>
> I am making this announcement in the public interest. I am doing so
> anonymously as I may be wrong and as it is a breach of my contract
> to reveal clues as to the identity of a player derived from the
> information sent to the chess server by the client chess interface.
>
> Whoever or whatever it is playing these games, most of them are
> absolute gems. I have collected almost 100 of them and am very
> tempted to publish them.
>
> I cannot tell you how excited I am at this. Fischer may well be mad
> - but he is back.
>
> Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
Ashton Anderson
Ashton
ICS Administrator wrote in message
<1WOUUDF33701...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org>...
CCCage
Why do you choose to remain anonymous ??
Unless you can prove your assertion, it is just an assertion and nothing
more.
Regards,
CCCage
"ICS Administrator" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:1WOUUDF33701...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org...
EZoto
as contradicting yourself knowing he can't stand that in the first place.
EZoto
Mig
reason whatsoever not to post these games, the ICC usernames, and
other details if indeed they existed. Without them, we have to assume
they do not exist.
Aside from all the typical hoax waffle (dozens of details that would
not be known if others were not, legend-style crap about beating the
best players in the world with bizarre moves, assertions mixed with
guesses, lots of "apparently" and "reportedly" and "it is understood"
when no doubts would be present if such information were available), a
few factual problems:
A wander through the database at the ICC shows no anonymous player
with a decent rating playing 1.f3 or other A00 openings with white.
The lag from a GSM phone connection would be worse than most any other
method of connecting to an ISP.
If he wanted to stay anonymous he would not engage in revealing
chit-chat with others.
Other than that, why would Fischer playing online be a shock? If he
wanted to remain anonymous, without admins, GMs, or anyone else
knowing, it would not be hard at all. I'd be surprised if he did not
play online, but that doesn't mean anything in this post makes any
sense at all.
Mig
On 7 May 2001 21:34:01 -0000, Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header
vze2...@mail.verizon.net
Mig wrote:
>
> when no doubts would be present if such information were available), a
> few factual problems:
>
> A wander through the database at the ICC shows no anonymous player
> with a decent rating playing 1.f3 or other A00 openings with white.
>
He, or the hoax perpetrator, played as a guest. I saw the games. I have
no interest in making this up. Im not saying its Fischer either, but it
was someone damn good.
Paul Onstad
>
> A N N O U N C E M E N T
> I am a US National Master and an administrator at the most popular
> Internet chess server. I have examined the connection and interface
Yes, and I'm the Pope.
-Paul
rmoskovi
-Ron
Jidan
of course he plays FischerRandom on a chess server, where else is he
going to find people to
play it with.
Post the games with the header stripped, though I doubt Fischer would log
in with the same name time after time.
let the world decide if the games are 2700+ srength
--
***********************************************
* "If we ever control Jerusalem, it will be fought over until *
* Judgment day --Muhammed (SAW) *
* email: Yusuf at velocitus dot
net *
* play chess at www.freechess.org
*
***********************************************
Tyler Bischel
can join it too. I find this post intriguing, and see it as entirely
plausable that a man who's livelyhood once was obsessed with the pursuit of
the game could find a nitch online for anonymous play. I suggest instead of
deriding these claims as spectical you open your imagination to the
posibilities of a return of a man whos legacy will never die.
"CCCage" <chessboa[nospam]@anonymous.to> wrote in message
news:oIHJ6.40176$2_.13...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Jidan
Tyler Bischel wrote:
> Internet Chess Server, the only server worth playing on. 40 bucks and you
> can join it too.
Free Internet Chess Server,
Internet Chess Club you mean
Kristian Ronge
> Y'ah what ICS are you with ??
>
> Why do you choose to remain anonymous ??
>
> Unless you can prove your assertion, it is just an assertion and nothing
> more.
Yes, but even so - it's a fascinating series of events.
/ Kristian
+-------------------------------------------------------+
|Kristian Ronge |
|zuc...@bigfoot.com d99...@nada.kth.se |
|(civil) (skola) |
| |
|d99, datateknik, KTH (Kungliga Tekniska Högskolan) |
|d99, Computer Science, Royal Institute of Technology |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
S519219
As far as your theory on the unknown player(s) is concerned: I am afraid
that it is even more complicated than you can possibly see. From a
reliable source (actually this source is former US president Kennedy,
whom everybody thinks was killed in Dallas, but that was just a look-
alike!), I have heard that the unknown player that you mention is
actually several players, amongst whom Fischer, Princes Di, Elvis,
and several other people that we all think are dead.
These people have been selected by the CIA to become avengers
of Russian chess. For years they have studied chess, and played
against each other. Now the time is right and after their practise on
ICS, they will the new top players. (On the FIDE, as well as the BGN
rating list!).
So you see that it is quit understandable that they want to remain
anonimous for some while.
Geetings,
M.L. King
B.t.w. I hope that the food in the nuthouse is ok.
Dr Stupid
>
>He, or the hoax perpetrator, played as a guest. I saw the games. I have
>no interest in making this up. Im not saying its Fischer either, but it
>was someone damn good.
and earlier wrote
> I have a Senior Master friend on ICC who played as a guest, several games
> with another guest as described here. Playing openings like f3, Kf2, Ke3
> as white, and e6, Qe7, Qf6 as black, he thoroughly trashed my 2400 rated
> friend numerous times. If it's a hoax, it's a highly elaborate and
> successful one.
Post one then. Did your friend not keep a record of such a remarkable
game? I certainly would have if someone had beaten me with 1.f3 -
2.Kf2!
I'm not implying any dishonesty here, just that you can't blame people
to remain sceptical until they "see the money"..
The Masked Bishop
>instead of deriding these claims as spectical you open your imagination to
>the posibilities of a return of a man whos legacy will never die.<
I suggest that you are really goofy. Open your imagination to the
possibility that you need to get out more.
li...@ork.net
Pope Paul? How are you?
Laurent Selvi
--
Laurent Selvi
Paris, France
CCCage <chessboa[nospam]@anonymous.to> a écrit dans le message :
oIHJ6.40176$2_.13...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> Y'ah what ICS are you with ??
>
> Why do you choose to remain anonymous ??
Another element for this mystery file : French GM Laurent Fressinet
concurs - have a look at :
http://www.sportechecs.com/article/article.php?IdArticle=43
Laurent Selvi
http://www.sportechecs.com/article/article.php?IdArticle=43
--
Laurent Selvi
Paris, France
ICS Administrator <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> a écrit dans le
message : U9WHG1RJ3701...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org...
> On Tue, 08 May 2001 14:20:26 +0200 in article <3AF7E48A...@KUB.NL>
> S519219 <G.H.F....@KUB.NL> wrote...
>
> >Dear ICS Administrator,
> >
> >As far as your theory on the unknown player(s) is concerned: I am afraid
> >that it is even more complicated than you can possibly see. From a
> >reliable source (actually this source is former US president Kennedy,
> >whom everybody thinks was killed in Dallas, but that was just a look-
> >alike!), I have heard that the unknown player that you mention is
> >actually several players, amongst whom Fischer, Princes Di, Elvis,
> >and several other people that we all think are dead.
> >These people have been selected by the CIA to become avengers
> >of Russian chess. For years they have studied chess, and played
> >against each other. Now the time is right and after their practise on
> >ICS, they will the new top players. (On the FIDE, as well as the BGN
> >rating list!).
> >So you see that it is quit understandable that they want to remain
> >anonimous for some while.
> >
> >Geetings,
> > M.L. King
> >
> >B.t.w. I hope that the food in the nuthouse is ok.
>
> I was somewhat more skeptical than this when a GM on my server first
> brought the games of Mr. X to my attention. So, no offense taken.
>
> If I am in a nuthouse, I am in the excellent company of dozens of GMs
> (including two in the top handful on the FIDE list), IMs etc. who
subscribe
> to the same theory. I have named a few of them in my other messages.
>
> Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Roman M. Parparov
> Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
Another one bites the killfile.
Who showed him USENET anyways? What a waste of bandwidth.
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame21.html
--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: ro...@empire.tau.ac.il
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)54-629-884 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann
Michael Cummings
<Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>The contents of note 5 of the username "mihiz(GM)" (a GM whose name I am
>not at liberty to disclose) on ICC have just been brought to my attention.
>Skeptics should read that first.
OK, it says this:
>see you friends! btw my dupe accounts are smoothg and watauba!
What does that mean? I'm probably just dense, but I don't get it.
--
,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> Mike Cummings | "What is wanted is not the will to believe, <
> mi...@annihilator.net | but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite."<
> ICQ #34152632 | -- Bertrand Russell <
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Ashton Anderson
ICS you mean, ICC right? It used to be called ICS
Ashton
PS And by your quips and style of writing I could take a wild guess and
might know which admin you are, but of course I wouldn't say that. If you
are who I think you are, you're a funny person, why would I get fired anyone
so funny asyou?
:-)
ICS Administrator wrote in message ...
>On Mon, 07 May 2001 23:04:57 GMT in article
><tSFJ6.10665$Hk4.1...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com> "Ashton Anderson"
><shee...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
>>What is ICS? Is that FICS?
>>
>>Ashton
>
>ICS is the generic name and stands for "Internet Chess Server". The "F"
>stands for "Free".
>
>Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
>
>
Rob Fatland
However, from my background I have to admit to a degree of skepticism.
(My background is science, and the plan there is generally to require
folks to back up their claims.) Now since this is a rather
extraordinary claim, as they would say at JREF, 'extraordinary claims
require extraordinary proof.' I'll suggest a simple idea to ICS Admin:
Publish a few of these games here.
If you do this, with the names of the ICC opponents, then great, you've
backed up your claim. We can collectively continue to pursue the idea
from there.
If you come up with reasons, no matter how elegant, noble, or
self-serving, for not doing this, then you've just told an interesting
yarn, but it has no more credibility than any other story, or the claims
of psychic dowsers for that matter. (By the way, saying 'if you don't
believe me go ask so-and-so doesn't count, because the burden of proof
is on you, not us.)
In the event that, as I suspect, you decide not to publish here, well,
then best wishes to you, but it's too bad you did all of this. If you
do publish some of these games, many thanks.
-DRF
Rob Fatland
>
> In the event that, as I suspect, you decide not to publish here, well,
> then best wishes to you, but it's too bad you did all of this.
Ah, I see that you have decided (other posts) to demur. Someone as
intelligent as you claim to be could easily figure out how to publish
without getting fired. Invoking wicked employers furthermore earns you
no sympathy; "only a fool" and so on.
So: sorry, you're a crank. Thanks for playing.
Michael Cummings
>I admire the enthusiasm of 'ICS Admin', the idea is intriguing.
>However, from my background I have to admit to a degree of skepticism.
>(My background is science, and the plan there is generally to require
>folks to back up their claims.) Now since this is a rather
>extraordinary claim, as they would say at JREF, 'extraordinary claims
>require extraordinary proof.'
I feel the same way, but then again, I don't think saying BF is playing on
ICC is an extraordinary claim. We know he's alive, he's in Hungary or
thereabouts, they have Internet access there, and he plays chess. So I
wouldn't hold him to as high a standard of proof as psychic dowsers or
iridologists, or the like.
>I'll suggest a simple idea to ICS Admin:
>Publish a few of these games here.
>
>If you do this, with the names of the ICC opponents, then great, you've
>backed up your claim. We can collectively continue to pursue the idea
>from there.
I think part of his post was to get some help obtaining these games
outside of his role at ICC. This is at least consistent.
>If you come up with reasons, no matter how elegant, noble, or
>self-serving, for not doing this, then you've just told an interesting
>yarn, but it has no more credibility than any other story, or the claims
>of psychic dowsers for that matter. (By the way, saying 'if you don't
>believe me go ask so-and-so doesn't count, because the burden of proof
>is on you, not us.)
Like I said, I don't think saying BF is playing, and playing well, on ICC
is actually on a par with dowsing. You give the dowsers too much credit.
:)
But I agree that more evidence is needed. I'd like to see some of these
alleged games, especially the one with f3, Kf2, Ke3, Kd3, c3, Kc2, Qe1,
Kd1.
--
,-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
> Mike Cummings | "There's a fine line between fishing and just <
> mi...@annihilator.net | standing on the shore like an idiot." <
> ICQ #34152632 | --Steven Wright <
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
rmoskovi
ICS Administrator <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>What do you mean, "even worse"? Can't you read?
<snip>
>Though the dejanews links I used to consult seem no longer to be
>operational, you _are_ that USCF _clerk_ Johnson, aren't you? The
>_seriously_ dumb dude who keeps saying online chess has no future, that the
>USCF is on the rise, etc.?
The old ad hominem attack.
Combined with an anonymous email source.
Hmm...that doesn't strike me as trollish.
Let this yahoo scream into the void, people.
-Ron
"I have a secret plan to bring Fischer back to chess. Elect me president
and I'll tell you."
-Ron
Mig
are a troll, even if there is something to be found in your story.
I have connected via GSM phone, thank you very much, and am quite
aware of the poor user experience such connections offer compared to
direct line connections from five or six countries, including several
"third world" ones. Vomiting pseudo-science in an attempt to confuse
the issue and sound authoritative is more typical hoax waffle.
I'm quite familiar with the ICC and every other ICS. Your insults are
also typical of hoax BS, trying to distract from the many holes in
your posts. Or you might just be a jerk; I wouldn't want to jump to
conclusions. And you can stop talking "Fischer insanity" to me. I met
him and worked with him in 1996 and rather doubt you can say the same.
Though barmy, paranoid, and ranting on occasion, he was quite lucid
and capable of going on about chess for a long time, including showing
analysis of recent games and flaws he had found in the analysis of
others. There was no question that his interest in chess was still
taking up almost all of his time, which is why I have little doubt
that he plays online.
Guest's games against titled players are archived in the ICC, and are
searchable by non-admins. And guest-guest games are useless by their
very nature. In fact, many of the nonsensical-style games you speak of
are there, although not against the players you name.
In fact, with several elements being true, I wonder why you would make
up so much accompanying junk and then defend it so loudly and
constantly. With so many games available, you could have posted a few
like the one below. Smells like teen agenda... Sticking to the very
limited facts instead of stretching things to fit your theory for
publicity would make for a better case.
Here is one of the games you are talking about, many similar ones are
easy to find by typing "search guest A00". Note that except for one
move, not counting the crazy stuff in the opening, ALL of the other
white moves are first picks by Fritz 6. That's 19/20 of the final 20
moves.
[Event "ICC 3 0 u"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2001.05.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "guest59"]
[Black "JackHenry"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ICCResult "Black resigns"]
[BlackElo "2880"]
[Opening "Sicilian defense"]
[ECO "B20"]
[NIC "SI.48"]
[Time "19:17:57"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
1. e4 c5 2. Ke2 e6 3. Ke3 Nc6 4. d3 Nf6 5. Kd2 d5 6. exd5 Nxd5 7. Ke1
Be7 8.Nc3 O-O 9. Ne4 b6 10. g3 Bb7 11. Bg2 h6 12. Kf1 Qd7 13. a3 Rad8
14. h3 c4 15. Qd2 cxd3 16. cxd3 Nd4 17. Qd1 f5 18. Nd2 Qc6 19. Ndf3
Nc2 20. Rb1 e5 21.Bd2 e4 22. Ne5 Qc7 23. Ng6 exd3 24. Nxf8 Bxf8 25.
Rc1 Re8 26. Nf3 Qc6 27.Kg1 Qf6 28. Qf1 Re2 29. Rxc2 dxc2 30. Qxe2 Qxb2
31. Qe6+ Kh8 32. Ne5 c1=Q+ 33. Bxc1 Qxc1+ 34. Kh2 Qc5 35. Ng6+ Kh7 36.
Qxf5 Kg8 37. Rc1 {Black resigns} 1-0
On 8 May 2001 17:01:42 -0000, Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header
(ICS Administrator) wrote:
>On Tue, 08 May 2001 04:41:09 GMT in article
><3af772fb....@news.newsguy.com> m...@spam.me.not.kcnewyork.com (Mig)
>wrote...
>
>>Blah blah blah. Since you posted via anonymous remailer, there is no
>>reason whatsoever not to post these games, the ICC usernames, and
>>other details if indeed they existed. Without them, we have to assume
>>they do not exist.
>
>Well, I have also posted the ICC "usernames" of (just) 3 of the leading GMs
>with whom you can verify matters.
>
>There is at least one other poster here (vze2...@mail.verizon.net -
>whether he is a "regular" or not I have not checked) who is directly
>verifying from observation that such games exist. This person is not using
>a remailer.
>
>As to the ICC: I see from what you write further down that you are
>unfamiliar with it. Let me assure you that were I to show here which guest
>games I have stored, I would be identifying myself immediately to my
>employer(s).
>
>>Aside from all the typical hoax waffle (dozens of details that would
>>not be known if others were not, legend-style crap about beating the
>>best players in the world with bizarre moves, assertions mixed with
>>guesses, lots of "apparently" and "reportedly" and "it is understood"
>>when no doubts would be present if such information were available), a
>>few factual problems:
>>
>>A wander through the database at the ICC shows no anonymous player
>>with a decent rating playing 1.f3 or other A00 openings with white.
>
>I am sorry, but you are sadly misinformed, and have thoroughly confused
>yourself. In three ways too Read my announcement again, and then direct
>your mind at this question:-
>
>To which "database at the ICC" do you have access that contains EITHER:
>
>a) any "guest versus guest" games at all;
>
>or
>
>b) games at "bullet" time controls?
>
>or
>
>c) games where one player was a "guest" but that player has "a decent
>rating" (guests only play unrated, and therefore cannot even acquire a
>"this session only" rating, let alone a persistent one)?
>
>:)
>
>You are confused.
>
>>The lag from a GSM phone connection would be worse than most any other
>>method of connecting to an ISP.
>
>I am somewhat taken aback by your assertion, and will re-evaluate your
>journalistic judgments in the light of what I now know. I shall endeavor to
>make this simple enough for you to understand.
>
>Almost all "lag" arises from the parts of the Internet system which exclude
>the phone connection between the machine of the user and that of his or her
>ISP.
>
>The delay imposed because of the "local" (including G.S.M.) phone
>connection is minimal. Electromagnetic waves propagate in air and vacuum at
>186 miles per millisecond. The extra delay imposed by earth-satellite
>distances and associated signal processing is therefore miniscule - under
>50 milliseconds.
>
>The lag caused by poor ISP connectivity (hub problems, bandwidth
>restrictions, poor routing etc.) for many ISPs in third-world countries
>(including many ex-communist states) is potentially fifty times that
>amount, and not untypically ten times that amount.
>
>You are therefore totally wrong. I eat, breathe and sleep "lag": please, do
>your research first next time.
>
>>If he wanted to stay anonymous he would not engage in revealing
>>chit-chat with others.
>
>I did not say that he wanted to stay anonymous. While I cannot read his (or
>her) mind, I imagine there is a very large middle-ground between wishing to
>be unidentified and not willing for his identity to be verifiable.
>
>As a note, I am told that the chit-chat developed over the months. At first
>it was chess only.
>
>>Other than that, why would Fischer playing online be a shock? If he
>>wanted to remain anonymous, without admins, GMs, or anyone else
>>knowing, it would not be hard at all. I'd be surprised if he did not
>>play online
>
>I would not. Are you not aware that during 19 of his ~20 "purdah" years
>(1972-1992) there is no record at all of his playing _any_ first-class
>chess? And that was before the days of internet chess and anonymity.
>
>I think the guy is nuts in ways that you and I cannot even begin to fathom.
>All the lawsuits and controversy into which he has been embroiled have only
>strengthened his genetic paranoia.
>
>>, but that doesn't mean anything in this post makes any sense at all.
>
>If so, you have singularly failed to demonstrate it.
>
>>
>>Mig
>
>I understand your hostility. Log in to ICC as a guest (late evenings and
>nights CET) and regularly play 1 0; it may both serve to channel any
>aggression into chess, and bring you into contact with the subject of this
>post. Believe you me, when you play him you will make the connection.
>
>Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
>
>
Martin Sims
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Round "-"]
[White "guest1470"]
[Black "Rabin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ICCResult "Black resigns"]
[Opening "Gedult's opening"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Time "18:01:55"]
[TimeControl "180+0"]
1. f3 d5 2. c3 c5 3. Qc2 Nc6 4. Qd3 e5 5. Qe3 Nf6 6. Qf2 Be7 7. Kd1 O-O 8.
Qe1 e4 9. d3 d4 10. fxe4 dxc3 11. Nxc3 c4 12. Nf3 Bg4 13. h3 Bxf3 14. gxf3
cxd3 15. exd3 Ne5 16. Qe2 Qa5 17. d4 Rfd8 18. d5 Rac8 19. Qg2 g6 20. Bd2 Nc4
21. Bxc4 Rxc4 22. Ke1 Bb4 23. Rc1 Re8 24. Rd1 Bxc3 25. Bxc3 Qa6 26. Kd2 Nd7
27. Ra1 Nc5 28. Qe2 b5 29. b3 Nxe4+ 30. fxe4 Rcxe4 31. Qd3 Qd6 32. Rae1 Qf4+
33. Kc2 Qf2+ 34. Qd2 Re2 35. Kc1 f5 36. d6 Rxd2 37. Rxe8+ Kf7 38. Re7+ Kf8
39. Bxd2 Qc5+ 40. Kd1 Qd5 41. Rhe1 Qxd6 42. Rxa7 Qd3 43. Kc1 Qxh3 44. Bb4+
{Black resigns}
1-0
"Mig" <m...@spam.me.not.kcnewyork.com> wrote in message
news:3af87780...@news.newsguy.com...
Gymrat
You must be a really fast typist or spend a great deal of time online
:)
Visit the Burlington Chessclub at
http://members.home.net/gymrat45/chessclub.html
Dimitri
like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
I just can't believe all the abusive and negative feedback in this group.
Why all the name-calling and finger pointing? The point is what he is
saying "could" be possible. Who can say for sure that it is not?
His concern for anonymity and policy of privacy for users seems consistent
with one who works at an ICS.
gymrat4...@home.net (Gymrat) wrote in <3af8d69c.58808460
@news.brlgtn1.ia.home.com>:
TOIB
>>That's the tradeoff, bud...if you want the gem, you are gonna get
>>overwhelmed in the crud.
> Since I have now reminded you of the question, do share with us which of
> Fischer's published blitz games is "crud" - and you need for these games to
> be the overwhelming majority.
I am sorry, but what does Bobby Fischer have to do with rapid time
controls? Please try to stay on topic.
--
Sean McFee
vze2...@mail.verizon.net
addresses/phone, so I have to wait till the next time he contacts me as a
guest. But when I do get in touch with him, Ill ask him for one.
Paul Rubin
> Boy, I for one am very interested in what ICS Administrator has to say. I,
> like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
I'm enjoying reading this thread as ICS Administrator's posts are
entertaining. But I'm sure it's a hoax.
Paul Rubin
> <3af87780...@news.newsguy.com> m...@spam.me.not.kcnewyork.com (Mig)
> wrote...
> >Here is one of the games you are talking about, many similar ones are
> >easy to find by typing "search guest A00". Note that except for one
> >move, not counting the crazy stuff in the opening, ALL of the other
> >white moves are first picks by Fritz 6. That's 19/20 of the final 20
> >moves....
> >1. e4 c5 2. Ke2 e6 3. Ke3 Nc6 4. d3 Nf6 5. Kd2 d5 6. exd5 Nxd5 7. Ke1
> >Be7 8.Nc3 O-O 9. Ne4 b6 10. g3 Bb7 11. Bg2 h6 12. Kf1 Qd7 13. a3 Rad8
> >14. h3 c4 15. Qd2 cxd3 16. cxd3 Nd4 17. Qd1 f5 18. Nd2 Qc6 19. Ndf3
> >Nc2 20. Rb1 e5 21.Bd2 e4 22. Ne5 Qc7 23. Ng6 exd3 24. Nxf8 Bxf8 25.
> >Rc1 Re8 26. Nf3 Qc6 27.Kg1 Qf6 28. Qf1 Re2 29. Rxc2 dxc2 30. Qxe2 Qxb2
> >31. Qe6+ Kh8 32. Ne5 c1=Q+ 33. Bxc1 Qxc1+ 34. Kh2 Qc5 35. Ng6+ Kh7 36.
> >Qxf5 Kg8 37. Rc1 {Black resigns} 1-0
>
> This is _not_ one of the games I would consider to be a candidate. You _do_
> know what f3 Kf2 means......do you?
So there's a simple way to test the theory. Set up a 10-game, 3
minute per game match between Fritz 6 and some GM, with Fritz's first
few moves forced to be f3 Kf2 etc. See what the results are. I think
the more thoroughly the game can be turned into a tactical mess in the
opening, the bigger Fritz's advantage at 3 minute time controls.
Remco Gerlich
> Hmm...that doesn't strike me as trollish.
>
> Let this yahoo scream into the void, people.
Come on, it's probably a troll, but he's a lot better than the trolls
we normally get...
--
Remco Gerlich
Mig
adulation didn't last long, so it's back the usual insults and
silliness. I get abused by professionals, I don't need it from amateur
name-callers like you. Instead of simply posting some interesting
information, you tried to play the big-shot know it all
top-sikrit-super-spy and only ended up looking like the ass you are.
And in record time! And insulting me in almost every post, how sweet.
Flowers would be nicer though, I'm already used to the attention of
punks here. Sorry, but I'm just another loudmouth here in rgcm, and
attacking me, particularly anonymously, doesn't make you a big-shot.
If you don't see how the game I posted fits your description, add
"Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess" to your Amazon.com order for "The Miss
Manners Guide to Etiquette." It shows a guest beating a strong GM
after moving his king e1-e2-e3-d2-e1 in the first seven moves! If this
game is not from your mystery superstar, and you say it isn't, it
rather blows a hole in the "only Fischer or Kasparov could win after
blah blah" story. There are quite a few more, by the way.
Dropping names? You claimed insight into Fischer's mental state, I
provided facts. You have yet to do the same about anything. You seem
more interested in telling other people they don't have information
than providing any.
As the eternally wise Rob Fatland pointed out, this could have been an
interesting thread with the information you brought up. The motive and
logic for Fischer playing online are clear. (Theories have been tossed
around here many times before.) Several GMs have told me Fischer plays
online, and the first of these comments go back to 1999. And so what?
Circumstantial and anecdotal evidence for Fischer playing online would
be interesting, especially if backed up by some research. You seem
close to providing some interesting clues here, but the gaps and
telltale hoax signs are also plentiful in your posts. And you attempt
to cover up the lack of facts with childish bluster and the usual "I
know more but can't share it with you idiots" crapola. (Only
guest-guest games that only you can see, of course! As if the admins
at the ICC don't know who you are. Doh.) Whether this is due to
invention, exaggeration, or delusions of grandeur, we may never know.
The theory is quite plausible, but since you refuse to provide, or are
incapable of providing, facts or evidence of any kind, you are just
another name-caller with a theory.
You have not attempted to do anything other than accuse anyone who
doubts you, or points out the flaws in your arguments, of stupidity.
Anonymous jerks are the worst jerks. Welcome to the killfile.
Mig
Akorps
Ke3, Kd3, c3, Kc2, Qe1, Kd1.
I haven't seen any falsifiable information
yet, so unfortunately I have to assume it
is a Troll. Would be nice if it were true.
But personally, I would have to have heavy
evidence before I would believe Fischer
would play that f3 stuff, since it was his
characteristic to play with absolute
precision in the opening. So that is what
convinced me that it was just a cleverly
designed Troll.
(for the record, the Troll would have to give
us something we could test and prove
false, that would tell if he was lying or not,
otherwise we have to assume we are just
being duped again).
Another thing that is admirable about this
Troll, is that it does take some things
which are quite plausible, like Fischer
playing over the internet, and Fischer
prefering Fischer Random, but the absurd
openings gave the Troll away, so design it
more carefully next time. I don't think you
can fool strong players using such an
absurd opening, its just not plausible that
Fischer could crush 2700 rated players with
that opening system.
"Perception = checking internal images against sensory data"
Phil Innes
spic...@home.com (Dimitri) wrote:
> Boy, I for one am very interested in what ICS Administrator has to say. I,
> like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
There have been some soundings about a match. Whatever is true in this case,
practicing on-line is consistent with that.
2 weeks ago I wrote here that the two people I would least like to see on
the other side of the board would be Alekhine or Fischer. They both wanted
to solve it on the board, regardless of black or white or precedent. As an
indicator of player-type here is a clue.
Cordially, Phil
Martin Sims
Ridiculous openings like those described are not as easy to bust as you
might think. It is quite plausible that a GM (or anyone else) would be upset
and insulted that an opponent would play such an opening against them, and
play badly as a result. It is also quite plausible that Fischer wants to
avoid playing cutting edge theory lines with which he is unfamiliar, and
humiliate his opponents at the same time.
Stefan Bremer
When I have a Trail-Account at ICC, my rating in bullet is betwenn 2250
and 2400.
Half a year ago(when i was only guest) i played a few times(1Minute) at
different days with another guest how plays such obscure openings;
I lost every game... I don't know how it is, but that he is a good
grandmaster is for sure.
Stefan
WhoCares
wrote:
by the way once i played a couple of blitz games against a guest that
challenged me i was around 2100 blitz then and he played f3 Kf2 and
massacrated me in both games after ive seen his history he had won
every game he played against 2400 ++ opossition i have no doubt that
he was a gm i can search for the games.
Martin Sims
Kf2 (or ...f6 ...Kf7) with a strong computer program (Yace) running in the
background. "I" played a few 2000+ players at 5 minute games, and won almost
every one (except for one where I lost on time in a won position). If a
2500-ish computer program can win from these openings, it wouldn't be a
problem for Fischer.
Brian Sumner
Administrator's posts to be interesting, consistent, and genuine. If
Fischer is actually playing these games, that would be quite a story and
the games themselves, if they are ever made available, would be
incredibly interesting.
From my point of view as a professional C/UNIX programmer, he seems to
have a very good working knowledge of internet chess servers and the
internet in general.
The interview with the French GM, which he referenced, also supports his
story. I don't believe that he could convince a GM to cooperate in a
public hoax of this magnitude, as that GM's credibility and reputation
would be indelibly tarnished from then on, should a deception be
revealed.
His reluctance to reveal his identity is also credible, as any of the
specific information (times/dates/IP addr/game scores, etc) which he is
withholding could be used to determine his identify and then terminate
his employment by ICS management.
Roman M. Parparov
This is the very point. But misunderstood.
I is suspected that a COMPUTER was playing these games.
I'd say Fischer like any other flesh and blood player would have extreme
difficulties against a computer in a bullet game, as well as
blitzes.
The Masked Bishop
surely better than >chewing the cud< or >milking the bishop<
Well, we see what's on your mind. Sorry, Onan, I'm not buying it.
R. Christian Call
> I am making this announcement in the public interest. I am doing so
> anonymously as I may be wrong and as it is a breach of my contract
> to reveal clues as to the identity of a player derived from the
> information sent to the chess server by the client chess interface.
So your ethics go something like this:
1) You pledged, when you took the job, that you wouldn't use your
position as an administrator to reveal people's identities.
2) But you don't mind violating that agreement, as long as you think
you can't get caught.
If you are indeed an ICS admin, you've just demonstrated that the ICS
privacy policy is a joke to those who run ICS.
Of course, you may not be an ICS admin at all--in which case the users
of ICS need not be concerned about their privacy.
--
Chris
(Remove the magic word in my email address to reply.)
li...@ork.net
> Bobby then came back and busted Spassky in Sveti Stefan '92, and a couple
> of the games there were real gems. Like Game 1.
Most, however, were of a level of a strong IM or a middling GM.
If that.
li...@ork.net
> Hey, weren't you the guy who was laughing at those rumors that Bobby was
> going to stage a comeback in '92?
Some comeback.
He destroyed all good feelings we used to have towards him. (Or, rather,
the good feelings of those that hadn't heard of his anti-semitic ravings
of the intervening years).
And also proved what we all suspected--reading and publishing anti-semitic
literature does not help support a world level chess ability.
li...@ork.net
> ** the some of the games I have had sequences like f3 Kf2 c4 Ke3 Kd3 Kc2
> Qe1 Qf2 Kd1 Qe3 Qd3 Qc2 Ke1 Qd1 or similar
> ** the games were not against 2000+ ICC players, but against top GMs, with
> ICC ratings of over 3000. Even over 3200. Even one who was... 3400 at the
> time (reconnected as a guest)
Bullshit.
You play that sequence against a 3000+ GM on ICS, you die.
Remco Gerlich
> On Tue, 08 May 2001 17:07:33 -0600 in article <3AF87C35...@vexcel.com>
> Rob Fatland <fat...@vexcel.com> wrote...
>
> >I admire the enthusiasm of 'ICS Admin', the idea is intriguing.
> >However, from my background I have to admit to a degree of skepticism.
> >(My background is science, and the plan there is generally to require
> >folks to back up their claims.) Now since this is a rather
> >extraordinary claim, as they would say at JREF, 'extraordinary claims
> >require extraordinary proof.'
>
> chess so amazing.
The amazing thing is that he would play nonsense openings, and beats top
class GMs with it. That's far beyond amazing.
> Not just ICC. And most of the worthy opponents are famous GMs who
> reconnected as guests (we know from the IP - AND MORE) who placed trust in
> the security of the ICSs concerned that such guest identities could never
> be revealed.
You have quite some nerve, proudly explaining that you cheated on their
trust here. Asshole.
> Not only would I get found out for sure and fired, but my "boss(es)" and I
> might get sued too. I'm no lawyer, don't want to learn the hard way.
You would deserve it though, you know you are wrong, you know the
consequences, and still you brag about it on Usenet.
--
Remco Gerlich
Paul Rubin
> "Last month ago, I surfed the Internet, as usual.. The players of the whole
> world clash there at blitz .. 5 minutes per game: "a test of the reflexes."
> I do that 6-7 hours at a stretch. That day, an opponent challenges me.. The
> opponent plays the first two most improbable moves (f3, King f2), sometimes
> waits almost a minute before playing its first move..
This sounds like a computer to me. The first move takes a while because
somebody has to figure out how to type it into the program.
> "I took the beating of my life: 15-0 .. I never felt such a force, nor ever
> felt such a humiliation."
> A computer? "Not, not their style."
Well, how about arranging a blitz match against a known computer and
seeing how it compares.
Ashton Anderson
Paul Rubin wrote in message <7xheyub...@ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
>Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (ICS Administrator) writes:
>> "Last month ago, I surfed the Internet, as usual.. The players of the
whole
>> world clash there at blitz .. 5 minutes per game: "a test of the
reflexes."
>> I do that 6-7 hours at a stretch. That day, an opponent challenges me..
The
>> opponent plays the first two most improbable moves (f3, King f2),
sometimes
>> waits almost a minute before playing its first move..
>
>This sounds like a computer to me. The first move takes a while because
>somebody has to figure out how to type it into the program.
???? How about Fischer giving someone time-odds to the player as he
famously did with GMs back in the 60s?? (and beating them mercilessly, too)
>
>> "I took the beating of my life: 15-0 .. I never felt such a force, nor
ever
>> felt such a humiliation."
>> A computer? "Not, not their style."
>
>Well, how about arranging a blitz match against a known computer and
>seeing how it compares.
I think someone who blitzes 6-7 hours at a stretch knows the style of a
computer. If he says it isn't their style, then believe me, it really isn't
there style. A proffesional chess player might know more than you think.
Ashton
Mike
about forty, the guest wins virtually all using these bizarre openings against many of the
highest rated regulars of icc. haven't had time to analyze them yet but it is incredible that
anyone can play these openings and win 95% against the top blitz playres on icc
Mike
Paul Rubin
> The report goes on to say that Fischer asked Berndsen to give his regards
> to Saemi Rock, popular Elvis-style rock dancer and the policeman in
> charge of his security while playing in the 1972 match against Spassky.
> ...
> Birgir Berndsen is a genuine chessplayer (I apologize to him if this news
> account is a hoax, or satirical). I do not know anything about Saemi Rock -
> can someone check whether this is true?
That Fischer got to be friends with his Reykjavik bodyguard is a true
story, described in the 2nd edition of Profile of a Prodigy. I don't
remember the bodyguard's name though, and am not sure if it's
mentioned in the book.
Paul Rubin
> I think someone who blitzes 6-7 hours at a stretch knows the style of a
> computer. If he says it isn't their style, then believe me, it really isn't
> there style. A proffesional chess player might know more than you think.
I think it's not in the style of most computers to play f3 Kf1. But
if the operator overrides the computer's opening choices, what happens
to the computer's style the rest of the game? Especially after the
weird double castling, you no longer have a normal chess position,
and human players' intuition may not operate as well as usual.
rmoskovi
ICS Administrator <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote:
>On 8 May 2001 01:05:10 -0700 in article <9d89bm$8nn$1...@aludra.usc.edu>
>rmos...@aludra.usc.edu (rmoskovi) wrote...
>
>> I thought April Fools Day was /last/ month.
>>
>> -Ron
>
>GM Nigel D Short and GM James Plaskett, whose "no secret" handles on ICC
>are "NDShort" and "Parsifal" respectively, both regularly play the guest -
>I know from the IP logs.
>
>Perhaps they too do not have calendars?
They're not publicaly claiming that their opponent is FIscher, and
that they've seen (publicaly searchiable) proof which they can't
show for private reasons.
If they've played him, then it was in their history, and thus could
easily be found by anyone. Therefore anyone could post it from an
anonymous email account and claim complete innocense in the matter.
In other words, if what you're claiming is true, you're doing a
phenominally bad job of convincing us.
rmoskovi
Dimitri <spic...@home.com> wrote:
>Boy, I for one am very interested in what ICS Administrator has to say. I,
>like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
>
>Why all the name-calling and finger pointing? The point is what he is
>saying "could" be possible. Who can say for sure that it is not?
No one.
But almost all of the people who post on the usenet claiming to have
seen secret information are full of it. And this guy isn't convincing
anyone otherwise with his claims of having seen secret databases,
and studying IP logs.
Mig, among others, has posted information which implies that the only
way this could be happening if Fischer and all these GM opponents
were all playing as guests. But why would Short and others play
as guests? What is their incentive?
I'm very willing to believe this, if I see some CREDIBLE information
to that effect. Claiming that GM Short has played games against
a strong guest does not in any way qualify as reasonable evidence that
argues for Fischer's return.
-Ron
TOIB
>>I am sorry, but what does Bobby Fischer have to do with rapid time
>>controls? Please try to stay on topic.
> I quite understand you are only Canadian (and a troll at that, but is that
> the best you can come up with?
My being Canadian, and your claim of my being a troll, has nothing
to do with whether Bobby Fischer is playing Chess on ICS. I remind you
again to stay on topic.
> Try to get your head out of your ass. You will find nothing useful up your
> ass. You might find "Mig" (1400 ELO). As I said, you'd find nothing useful.
Why must you keep posting about my ass? Frankly you are starting
to creep me out. If you could stick to the topic I would appreciate it. My
ass has very little to do with Bobby Fischer, or with "Mig" (1400 ELO), or
with the quality of on-line chess.
Thanks,
--
Sean McFee
Brian Karen
1: Robert James Fischer from Hungary (Bobby to my chess friends!). I love to
chat but please no questions about my interviews, those are lies spread by
the Goyim controlled press.
2: To set the record straight, the reason I quit chess was because I was
bothered by the the harm I caused the former Soviet Union.... Besides it was
starting to become obsessive.
3: BTW I love ChessOpeningTheory! Feel free to talk to me about it.
Favorite opening, the Nadjorf Sicillian !!!
4: I will normally grant takebacks on mouseslips, if they are obvious
slips. I don't mind it if you say "thanks" or "good game", win or lose.
Just try to be a good sport :)!
5: Currently enrolled in an assertiveness training course so forgive me if
I am terse at times (and yes its helping!).
6: Remember, its not whether you win or lose, we are all here to have fun !
(Disclaimer for the 1% who havent realized: This is a joke :))
TOIB
> Mig, among others, has posted information which implies that the only
> way this could be happening if Fischer and all these GM opponents
> were all playing as guests. But why would Short and others play
> as guests? What is their incentive?
The more strongly our anonymous friend insults "Mig", the more
credibility he gives him. I wonder if he realizes this.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Gymrat
abusive, given negative feedback, or pointed my finger. I simply
pointed out the guy has been busy..I even added a little smiley face
so no offense would be taken....I had no idea anybody would be so
hypersensative.
On Wed, 09 May 2001 06:35:11 -0000, spic...@home.com (Dimitri)
wrote:
>Boy, I for one am very interested in what ICS Administrator has to say. I,
>like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
>
>I just can't believe all the abusive and negative feedback in this group.
>Why all the name-calling and finger pointing? The point is what he is
>saying "could" be possible. Who can say for sure that it is not?
>
Jidan
remained silent
******************************************************************
*"If we ever control Jerusalem, it will be fought over until *
* Judgment day --Muhammed (SAW) *
* email: Yusuf at velocitus dot net *
* play chess at www.freechess.org *
****************************************************************8*
vze2...@mail.verizon.net
TOIB wrote:
> In rec.games.chess.misc rmoskovi <rmos...@aludra.usc.edu> wrote:
> > Mig, among others, has posted information which implies that the only
> > way this could be happening if Fischer and all these GM opponents
> > were all playing as guests. But why would Short and others play
> > as guests? What is their incentive?
>
>
Strong players play as guests all the time. It avoids them being harrassed
by fans, or by being observed by unscrupulous opponents looking to pick up
style or opening tips.
TOIB
>>credibility he gives him.
> Only fools lend credibility to someone who states or implies that:
> ** anonymous guests have ICS ratings (False)
> ** fast bullet games are stored on ICC (False)
> ** [if one of the players is titled] (False)
> ** A game e4 c5 Ke2 e6 Ke3 Nc6 is "A00" (False)
> ** G.S.M. phones cause appreciable lag!! (False)
I sure hope you've mastered cut-and-paste, or else your fingers
must be awful tired.
If Mig is so wrong, then why do you have to repeat this three
dozen times in the thread? This seems more the tactic of one who has
nothing to say, so instead buries people in the same old trash over and
over.
> Now, you wouldn't be so easily manipulatable, would'ya?
It looks like you're the one who is easily
manipulatable. Disappointing, almost.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Roman M. Parparov
> Bullshit.
Obviously, computer was playing these games. Such an opening suggests
a GM going for attack, i.e. for tactics... And the CPU waits for him there.
Akorps
Parparov is IM strength.
Roman M. Parparov
>>But, of course you must be stronger than he is, Mr. Parparov!
> Parparov is IM strength.
Sorry, is the clown responding to me? I made clear that he is in the
killfile and I will not respond to ANY of his messages. I wonder why
people still talking to him. ICS is a well-run BUSINESS, and I doubt
that Darooha would allow any crap like that to start here.
So, an obvious troll. Possibly, the clown was the very person logging
as guest, using a good chess engine, and "beating" the GMs.
Sam Sloan
>If anyone is interested i can post a few examples
>
Yes. We are interested. Please post a few.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
wrote:
If you had been realing my website you would have known that the
bodyguard's name was Simonar Palsson.
Sam Sloan
ches...@mindspring.com
Sam Sloan wrote in message <3afa66ec...@nntp.mindspring.com>...
I think the bodyguard's name is in Brad Darrach's book as well. I no longer
own this volume, so I cannot be sure. Could someone check this please?
Neil Brennen
Phil Innes
Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header (ICS Administrator) wrote:
>>Online chess can also *be* OTB Eric, the only differences are that games
>>>are unmonitored by a TD and times typically faster.
>
> Exactly so. Phil Innes, you do realize you are talking to ECJ, an idiot?
This comment does not address Eric's ideas, it belittles his appreciation of
on-line play.
IMO, people think Eric is 'difficult' because he finds a value in
traditional OTB chess that is sometimes discounted elsewhere. Inasmuch as
you and I agree about the very evident potential of net-play, we must admit
that almost all games are a departure from normal OTB chess because the
netgames are unmonitored, and unratable in the same way.
So what is similar is not the same - and differentiating between the two is
a mark of intelligence, no?
I am afraid that I cannot agree with you for both these reasons, even while
I might think Eric a bit reactionary about net-play and discount his views
on that to the same degree, everyone fostered in the nest of corporatist
USCF centrism acts in a similar and overcontrolling way.
This is where that organisation has consistently missed the boat, no?
If you do not like someone's [or of organisational behavior] views the best
comeback is to offer them an appreciation of what they have expressed and
compare it to what else there is.
In the case of USCF there is very much left out - but I do not condemn it
for what it /does/ achieve, and certain individuals still speak for what is
good in traditional OTB chess, and speak for these values better than you or
I.
Cordially, Phil Innes
> Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
TOIB
>>>>I am sorry, but what does Bobby Fischer have to do with rapid time
>>>>controls? Please try to stay on topic.
>>
>>> that the best you can come up with?
>>
>> My being Canadian, and your claim of my being a troll, has nothing
>>to do with whether Bobby Fischer is playing Chess on ICS. I remind you
>>again to stay on topic.
> Yes, that clearly was the best you could come up with.
>>> Try to get your head out of your ass. You will find nothing useful up
>>> your ass. You might find "Mig" (1400 ELO). As I said, you'd find nothing
>>> useful.
>>
>> Why must you keep posting about my ass?
> Because it is the only highly visible part of you?
Once again, this post is completely off-topic. It is to weep,
frankly.
--
Sean McFee
Mike
work, but will post a few after work, 5 pm EST or so
I searched the iccc database only for A00 games, not other irregular
openings, which i will do later. The off-beat sicilian posted earlier by
mig might well be from the same player so there may be more to find
there.
I have no idea who this guy is, certainly a strong blitz player, i see
no reason why it couldn't be Fischer, but what I find interesting, even
compelling, is that someone can have such utter disregard for
conventional opening theory and yet have such OVERWHELMING success. And
aren't we all a little tired of GM games where there is an opening
"novelty" reported on the 20th move of some boring opening like the
Berlin Defense.
S
Turkish Gold
Mike
> Actually, BY FAR the best games are the ones you won't have, Mike. They are
> the ones at the bullet time controls, or where both players are playing as
> guests (but one is a top GM who reconnected), or both. Some of the stuff in
> them is absolutely magical.
>
> Yes i imagine they would be interesting but with no way to confirm the
> identity of at least one of the players it would be easy to pass these off as
> "contrived" or hoax games. I realize you may have the ability to ascertain the
> id of these guests but i don't. And as you said, the guest vs guest games
> don't seem to be in the database.
But here is an example of one i have found:
White guest571
Black GM Yuri Razuvaev 2949 (ICC)
3 2 blitz
1. f3 e5 2. Kf2 d5 3. e3 Nf6 4. d4 ed4 5. ed4 c5 6. Qe2+ Be6 7. Qb5+ Nc6 8. Qb7+
Nd4 9. Na3 Rb8 10. Qa7 Bd6 11. c3 Nc6 12. Qa4 Bd7 13. Nb5 Be5 14. Be3 d4 15. Bd2
O-O 16. Qc2 Qb6 17. c4 Nb4 18. Bb4 cb4 19. Bd3 Rbc8 20. Qd2 Bb5 21. cb5 Nd5 22.
Ne2 Ne3 23. h3 Qh6 24. g3 Rfe8 25. f4 Bd6 26. Rac1 Bc5 27. a4 Qe6 28. a5 Qd5 29.
Rh2 g6 30. a6 Bb6 31. Rc8 Rc8 32. Qb4 Nc2 33. Qe7 Bc5 34. Qe5 Qb3 35. Nc1 Qb2
36. Rh1 Ne3+ 37. Ne2 Qd2 38. Qe4 Nd1+ 39. Rd1 Qd1 40. f5 Qd2 41. Kg2 Kf8 42. fg6
hg6 43. Qf3 Re8 44. Bc4 Re7 45. h4 Qc2 46. Bd3 Qd2 47. Kh3 Re3 48. Qd5 Ba7 49.
Bc4 1-0
Hopefully I have no typos here, let me know if there are any; i thought an
interesting game, some blunders but fast time control, let me know what you
think, I am posting some more but my typing is very slow; might be quicker to
enter moves into my comp and save/post as chessbase or pgn files?!
This may not be best example of the games in question but I am starting with it
because of the black player, Razuvaev, whi has a fairly impressive chess
pedigree. Also it seems that the openings are getting stranger progressively,
this one is fairly mild cpmpared to some...
Rob Fatland
>
> hypersensative.
>
YOU PHILISTINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry Gymrat, what I questionably call my sense of humour got the
better of me. I hope you will take this in the spirit of the theatre of
the absurd in which it is intended, best regards. -rob)
Mike
Here is another...
White guest 1212
Black Boaz (IM Emmanuel Berg) 2990 (ICC)
3 0
1. f3 e5
2. Kf2 d5
3. a4 Nc6
4. a5 Bc5+
5. e3 Nf6
6. c3 d4
7. Qc2 0-0
8. cd4 Bd6
9. de5 Be5
10. d4 Nd4
11. ed4 Bd4+
12. Ke1 Re8+
13. Be2 Nd5
14. Nc3 Nb4
15. Qd2 Bf5
16. Ne4 Be4
17. fe4 Qh4+
18. Kd1 Rad8
19. Nf3 Qf6
20. Ke1 Bf2+
21. Kf2 Rd2
22. Bd2 Nc6
23. a6 Qb2
24. Rhb1 Qc2
25. ab7 Qe4
26. Bb5 Rb8
27. Rc1 Nd8
28. Re1
1-0
Staunton
> >>
> >>That Fischer got to be friends with his Reykjavik bodyguard is a
true
> >>story, described in the 2nd edition of Profile of a Prodigy. I
don't
> >>remember the bodyguard's name though, and am not sure if it's
> >>mentioned in the book.
"The policeman was Saemunder Paalson.(...)'Sammy' accompanied Fischer
everywhere.(...)The friendship continued after the match ended. When
Fischer left Iceland, Sammy and his wife went with him to New York. For
a while, there was speculation that Sammy would stay with Fischer in
America, as his combination companion-chauffeur-bodyguard." (pp.
234-235)
> >
> >If you had been realing my website you would have known that the
> >bodyguard's name was Simonar Palsson.
>
>
> I think the bodyguard's name is in Brad Darrach's book as well. I no
longer
> own this volume, so I cannot be sure. Could someone check this please?
>
"Bobby had an affinity for men like "Saemi" (pronounced Symie)
Palsson...(...) In his middle twenties, Palsson was a well-known pop
singer and Iceland's leading rock dancer. At twenty-seven, he won his
diploma as a master builder, a title that certifies proficiency as a
carpenter, mason, roofer, electrician and plumber. When he joined the
police force he took judo training and in less than a year, though he
rates only an orange belt, defeated several black-belt players and
placed second in the Icelandic championships. (...) Palsson presented
himself as a simple, friendly cop with a pretty wife and four very
pleasant children [Brady mentions 5 children]. But most Icelanders knew
about Palsson's lifelong hunger for fame. "Turn on a spotlight anywhere
in Reykjavik," said a man who had known him for years, "and in five
minutes Saemi will be standing in it."" (pp. 125-6)
> Neil Brennen
>
>
Staunton
cannot
> find it on the search engine @ http://www.chesscafe.com
Yes, this article appeared at the Chesscafe, in a short-lived section
whose name eludes me. At the time, I'm pretty sure I followed the link
up. Alas, I didn't make a record of it. Some other things were
distracting me around this time.
helmet
have probably beaten my three year old record for number of
posts in a thread.
Secondly its good to see a little intrigue remains on the chess
servers, nothing like a little mystery to liven up this otherwise boring
group.
Thirdly, speaking of boredom wouldnt someone of Fishers
abilities soon tire of opening games with f3 and kf2?
This opening is used online either by computers (probably)
or by players trying to gain on the clock. As fisher was always
very fast he would have no need to resort to that opening.
He would be much better to start with the vastly superior 1.a3 !!!
Most GMs tend to use the net for trying out noveties etc
clearly not the case here. Far more likely to be a computer program,
maybe a cheat with a conscience who only uses his computer when
logging on as a guest.
helmet
ps hi phil good to see you still posting to the group. Where is the real
pope? Rolf
Paul Rubin
> Thanks for that. Another pebble in the pond, I know. Now I happen to
> believe (from the modus operandi that seemed to be being employed around
> then) that those games were guest vs guest games (Berndsen should be
> contacted for confirmation - no privacy issue is involved, he went to the
> press!). If so, it seems pretty significant that this mystery player could
> come up with details like that "out of the blue" - probably only just
> having come to know the domicile of his opponent. Think about it.
> Especially if the name is not there. I have done a huge web and net search
> for it, and I have come up with nothing.
Why don't you look in Brady's book. Does it occur to you that the
hoaxster might have read that book?
Ed Seedhouse
>The more strongly our anonymous friend insults "Mig", the more
>credibility he gives him. I wonder if he realizes this.
Mig's credibility is already reasonably high, with me anyway, because of
his past contributions to these newsgroups and chess in general.
Anonymous' name calling doesn't increase Mig's credibility so much as
destroys whatever little credibility he has himself.
Ed Seedhouse
"Seedhouse" on ICC
CFC Rating: 2050
helmet
annotations as his own?
helmet
Gymrat
(ICS Administrator) wrote:
>On Wed, 09 May 2001 05:34:13 GMT in article
><3af8d69c...@news.brlgtn1.ia.home.com> gymrat4...@home.net
>(Gymrat) wrote...
>
>>You are one VERY prolific poster!
>>You must be a really fast typist or spend a great deal of time online
>>:)
>
>You do understand what "ICS Administrator" means, don't you? :-)
>
>Such persons tend to be really fast typists, prolific communicators, and
>spend a great deal of time online with lots of spare time on their hands.
>
>They're even paid to do it. Or at least some of them do.
>
>Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
hmmm...I see that bore repeating :)
http://members.home.net/apa.iowa/MainPage.html
Personal site
http://members.home.net/gymrat45/HomePage.htm
http://www.aswonline.com
Gymrat
wrote:
>Boy, I for one am very interested in what ICS Administrator has to say. I,
>like many, would love to see Fischer back in action (quirks and all).
>
>I just can't believe all the abusive and negative feedback in this group.
>Why all the name-calling and finger pointing? The point is what he is
>saying "could" be possible. Who can say for sure that it is not?
>
>His concern for anonymity and policy of privacy for users seems consistent
>with one who works at an ICS.
>
I responded to this earlier but for some reason it never showed up..so
here is my response again.....Since you are replying to my post, I
would like you to point out ANYTHING abusive or negative in my post, I
would also like to know where I was name calling or finger pointing.
The only name I called him was a prolific poster...The only finger
pointing I did was to point at the fact that he must be a fast typist
or have a lot of spare time....are you aware that ":)" is a smiley
face? You need to chill out and not be so hypersensative before you
have a stroke or heart attack.
Gymrat
(ICS Administrator) wrote:
>On Thu, 10 May 2001 05:12:53 GMT in article
><3afa22f4...@news.brlgtn1.ia.home.com> gymrat4...@home.net
>(Gymrat) wrote...
>
>>Since you are replying to my post...please tell me where I have been
>>abusive, given negative feedback, or pointed my finger. I simply
>>pointed out the guy has been busy..I even added a little smiley face
>>so no offense would be taken....
>
>I am sure Dimitri did not mean to suggest that you had been at all like
>this - he was referring to a minority of posters here, who now wish they
>had not been so categorical in their attacks.. as a lot of confirmations
>have poured into these forums. :-)
>
>>I had no idea anybody would be so hypersensative.
>
>Don't get too hypersensitive yourself, pal! :-)
>
Now I feel silly for reposting when my original post never showed up
on my reader or at deja.com...oh well...dimitri can enjoy it twice as
much.
Phil Innes
wrote:
<...>
> As fisher was always
> very fast he would have no need to resort to that opening.
> He would be much better to start with the vastly superior 1.a3 !!!
> Most GMs tend to use the net for trying out noveties etc
> clearly not the case here. Far more likely to be a computer program,
> maybe a cheat with a conscience who only uses his computer when
> logging on as a guest.
you've posted this to every ng in creation, my 'andsum. youms'll be in for
it now!
but as openings go, against computer or real coves, getting the other guy
out of the book in fast chess is always an advantage
1.a3!! is good for that - i've had some success with the great crab as white
- getting in b4 and g4 early :) and playing it at 27xx at less than 10min
games
i have also tried the great crab at longer times against master players -
what it seems to do is challenge the other player to make strategic or
tactical decisions over the board, and to trash preparation - this sorts out
about half of all players immediately, even very strong players struggle
between finding tactical refutations and 'doing the right thing'
strategically by builing the centre, <grin>
there is a russian bloke i write with name of Chepukaitis who is a real
speed demon - he describes his own play as being 'profoundly awkward' to
deal with
1.g5 as black or even the <laugh> preparatory h6 also allows people to
'refute' it, even by winning a pawn or two
perhaps fishy likes f3 not for his own speed, but to challenge the other
guy's speed immediately
i still play some lines in the sveshnikov which have the same effect, but
the pause appears at about move 15. watching white decide what to do and
waiting for the 'nothing move' is the thing - then a little bit of
consolidation and piece coordination give all the chances to black in an
objectively 'equal' situation
i think some people sense it coming and don't know what to do, so 'thrash'
- and this is when black can do better than be equal in a dynamically
balanced position
are you ever going to write "The Carn Brea Variation" or is this a big
secret
cordially, my cocker
phil
> helmet
> ps hi phil good to see you still posting to the group. Where is the real
> pope? Rolf
>
rolf is in arcadia ego
JDM
will post again in this thread:
No one has answered the valid question of "Even if it IS Bobby Fischer, if
he decides to play as a guest, what right do we have to try to strip away
the anonymity that he (or she, or it, or whoever this guest really is) seems
to desire?"
I say we leave him/her/it alone until he/she/it decides to reveal
themselves. As far as I am concerned, it is just another guest on an
unnamed chess server. Really not worth all of this fuss...
-- JDM
Mike
where the play is totally crazy in the opening in some games and just a bit odd
in others. In one group, his opponent uses the same opening against him and
loses! i think it was an f6 Kf7 etc opening
ICS Administrator wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2001 21:27:15 GMT in article <3AFB0877...@nbnet.nb.ca>
> Mike <mik...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote...
>
> Thanks, Mike.
>
> >But here is an example of one i have found:
> >
> >White guest571
> >Black GM Yuri Razuvaev 2949 (ICC)
> >1-0
> >1. f3 e5 2. Kf2 d5
>
> >some blunders but fast time control, let me know what you think,
>
> Looks plausible at first sight.
>
> >This may not be best example of the games in question but I am starting
> >>with it because of the black player, Razuvaev, whi has a fairly impressive
> >chess pedigree. Also it seems that the openings are getting stranger
> >>progressively, this one is fairly mild cpmpared to some...
>
> And that is putting it mildly. The opening looks totally reasonable to me.
> :-)
>
> Some of the guest-guest ones I have acquired, where one of the guests have
> ICS ratings over 2900 (sometimes, a lot over 2900) which start with some
> variation of f3 c3 and then the K followed by the Q do a walk (passing d3
> and e3, without the e or d pawn being advanced) so they end up on their
> original squares) - SOMETIMES MORE THAN ONCE - are incredible.
>
> Sd ................
> ICS Administrator
> searchingforb...@hotmail.com
> But remove Mig before emailing!
>
> WARNING!
> ICS stands for Internet Chess Server.
> There are many such Internet Chess Servers.
> One of them is "ICC". It is not the only one,
> nor is it the one to which most comments apply.
Mike
opening play by "castling" king and queen over the first 8 moves and still win
against strong opposition, 95% or more, is very interesting in itself
Mike
move choices of the opponents of our mystery guest so it seems unlikely to be a
computer - or even a human using some computer help, in a 3 minute game it would
be difficult to enter into computer, then evaluate the computers choice and
possibly reject at least some computer moves in favor of your own?! Of course it
could be new computer program, but what sort of algorithms is it programmed
with??
ICS Administrator wrote:
> g.co.nz>
> Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address.
> It was automatically remailed by one or more anonymous mail services.
> You should NEVER trust ANY address on Usenet ANYWAYS: use PGP !!!
> Get information about complaints from the URL below
> X-Remailer-Contact: http://yi.org/frogadmin/
>
> On Fri, 11 May 2001 13:42:48 +1200 in article
> <9dfg0m$qsi$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz> "helmet" <acu...@es.co.nz> wrote...
>
> > Firstly, congratulations ICS administrator, i think you
> >have probably beaten my three year old record for number of
> >posts in a thread.
>
> Thanks, just getting started. Eventually, someone else who _can_ will
> access and reproduce here the guest-guest games where the really fantastic
> action occurs.
>
> > Thirdly, speaking of boredom wouldnt someone of Fishers
> >abilities soon tire of opening games with f3 and kf2?
>
> I just mentioned f3 Kf2 because they are a common theme. What usually
> follows is a K-march and dance, or a K-Q double castling or quadruple
> castling. In the attack that follows, the mystery player loses pawns and
> opens lines. Then he uses those opened lines.
>
> > As fisher was always very fast he would have no need to resort to that
> > opening.
>
> Maybe, but when you are winning 95% (quoting someone else, I think it is
> closer to 90%) a practical player has little cause to make him shift. Not
> to forget it is a big insult to the opposition too. Like arriving 59
> minutes late for your game in a key match or tournament, now who used to do
> that? :-)
>
> >maybe a cheat with a conscience who only uses his computer when logging on
> >as a guest.
>
> Maybe. But lots of GMs who have been "Fischered" don't agree. And the guest
> games don't match any of the top program's choices well at all.
Ed Seedhouse
> Is this the same Mig who once tried to pass fritz
> annotations as his own?
I wouldn't know. However if it's a question of Mig's credibility versus
"helmut"s, I know who wins so far as I am concerned anyway.
Jeroen ;-}
> Gymrat wrote:
> >
> > hypersensative.
> >
>
> YOU PHILISTINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be so hypersansetive.
rmoskovi
>>Strong players play as guests all the time. It avoids them being
>>>harrassed by fans, or by being observed by unscrupulous opponents looking
>>to pick up style or opening tips.
>
>Absolutely correct. Additionally, I am informed that Fischer (or whoever is
>this guest) insists on anon (guest vs guest) playing almost from the start.
>But don't bother Ron with facts.
It just takes more than claims from an anonymous jackass for me to take
something as a fact.
helmet
couldnt agree more, never trust a german, that Helmut sounds
a beastly chap.
Question for you ed, is there any particular reason why your
bullet rating on ICC is 1508 (snigger like mutley) yet your standard
over 2000?
This wide discrepancy is normally only seen by players
who use computer help.
HelmEt
helmet
Wat be this great crab you be talkin of. It do sound like
load of pollocks to me boy.
Be bout time we was meetin up for some games on that there ICC.
Never know who we might be seein. Some emmet did try that f3
nonsense, i did scat e doun with 1.....a6 That fischer he not been up
carn brae me ansome
helmets parrot
helmet
his bumbling goes back years. From his boot licking of anyone with a title
to his highly suspicious friendship with his silicon superior, fritz.
I just checked his ICC notes and was somewhat suprised
to find that his blitz rating has shot up to over 2500 !!!!
I have played mig often over the years on ICC and remember him
as a stodgy 2000 player at best. Could it be his relationship with fritz
has taken a more sinister turn? Note he is another with a blitz rating
500 points higher than his bullet.
His notes are also rather unbecoming for a self styled chess
messiah.
=================================================
Note 6 I respect your right to win at all costs, despite the
complete
lack of chess from your random flailings (thats respect?) but i also
reserve the right never to play you again ( diddums little miggys havin a
tantrum)
=================================================
Note 5 if you cant at least attempt to play chess, as opposed to
random mouse wank ( the mind boggles) , you will enter my no play
list ( its not fair , im takin my set home )
===================================================
Its so unfair of all those beastly opponents to move so fast, poor
little miggy simply dosent have time to enter all the moves into fritz
helmet
> I agree, Mr Seedhouse. After Mig, the _webmaster_ of a leading chess site,
> publicly argued that GSM phone lines are a more major contributor to
> internet lag (if one connects via GSM) than having a poorly-connected ISP,
> it sure is hard to take Mig seriously!
>
> And that is not to mention all Mig's other errors, including the "game as
> proof" which proved pretty much the opposite. :-)
>
> I agree, Mr Seedhouse - Mig's credibility is darned close to zero, now.
>
> >Ed Seedhouse
> >"Seedhouse" on ICC
> >CFC Rating: 2050
>
> Please observe netiquette and stop snipping relevant newsgroups. And it is
> worse if you do not document it.
Staunton
ICS Administrator <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in
message news:VKS6899V3702...@frog.nyarlatheotep.org...
> On Fri, 11 May 2001 00:35:35 +0100 in article
> <9df8fu$odo$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com> "Staunton"
> <howard_...@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
> >> There was a suggestion that the article is from Chesscafe, but I
> >>cannot find it on the search engine @ http://www.chesscafe.com
> >
> >Yes, this article appeared at the Chesscafe, in a short-lived section
> >whose name eludes me. At the time, I'm pretty sure I followed the
link up.
>
> mystery GM would be helpful.
>
> Also to GM Fressinet, who seems to be saying that he reached the
conclusion
> himself (without any specific disclosure by the opponent) that he was
> playing Bobby.
http://www.sportechecs.com/article/article.php?IdArticle=43
>
I was chatting earlier with Gentleman Jim Plaskett (Parsfial) on ICC
about this. I think I'm free to relate that our mystery guest beat
Plaskett 14-0 with 1 draw. Apparently, he/it crushed Short 8-0. All
these games were 3 0 , I believe.
Short believes that it is Fischer. Plaskett doesn't, he thinks it must
be a GM working with a computer (as the play is not routinely
computer-like). But what computer it could be, he doesn't know. He
called the whole thing 'astounding'. The subject was discussed a little
at the recent 4NCL event; both Rowson and McShane doubt that it's
Fischer.
Two other clues - Plaskett knows quite a lot about Fischer, and
mentioned Elizabeth Targ (Fischer's niece - Joan, Bobby's sister was
married to Russell Targ) - our guest appeared not to know the name.
Hardly conclusive though if Fischer is playing games. He also said that
Fischer is in Japan. I knew that Fischer was there, but he may now be
back in Hungary.
Mike
find the whole sereies