Laos, Sarin, SOGs
Donald L Ferry
Ralph McGehee <rmcg...@igc.org> wrote:
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> Laos, Sarin, and Special Operations Groups (SOGs)
>
> I do not have any knowledge one way or another about the use of
>Sarin gas in Laos per the recent news items. Below is some information
>from CIABASE about SOG operations in Laos and Vietnam. For brievity's sake
>I include only the most relevant entries.
>
>Ralph McGehee CIABASE
> Vietnam, MACV SOG, 64-81 studies and observation group executed special
> operations and missions under guise of MACV. MACV SOG a joint service high
> command unconventional warfare task force engaged in highly classified ops
> thru out southeast asia. area responsibility included burma, Cambodia,
> Laos, north and south Vietnam and provinces of yunnan, kwangsi, kwangtung
> and hainan island in china. activated 1/24/64 subordinate MACV command not
> a special forces unit but used special forces personnel. cross-border
> reconnaissance and intel ops into Laos under project shining brass. placed
> anti-personnel devices, engaging vc and nva or pathet lao in combat,
> controlled air strikes. shining brass renamed prairie fire in 68 and phu
> dung in 4/81. most MACV SOG sites with special forces camps along svnese
> border. for a detailed description see stanton, s.l. (1985). green berets
> at war 230-6
>
Really! I saw a special on PBS! They had a Hot Dog CIA guy who
bragged about mailing ears to those questioning his stats. I guess he
was a part of this unit!
XYZ
What the hell does the collection of ears, which did occur, have to do with
the use of Sarin gas, which wasn't used??? BTW, CIA personnel had very
little to do with operational conduct of MACV-SOG operations, i.e. military
personnel conducted ops either with CCN, CCC, or CCS. SOG operators were
the were among the most highly decorated during the war. The sacrifices
that these personnel made is an inspiration to any "meat-eater". To
disparage their contributions is at the best ill-informed and at the worst
gutless.
J.A.
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358996eb...@news.mindspring.com>...
CShank9487
>What the hell does the collection of ears, which did occur, have to do with
>the use of Sarin gas, which wasn't used??? BTW, CIA personnel had very
>little to do with operational conduct o
I agree that Sarin gas was not used in Laos by the USAF. I will say this
though, I was in NKP in 1969 and we had quite a collection of Chinese and
Russian made 37mm and 57mm anti aircraft guns. These were taken away from
their gun crews and flown out of Laos to NKP by helicopter. The crews were
gassed, but not with a lethal gas, it was a temporary disabling gas which
caused vomiting and temporary incapacitation (or so I was told). Of course we
also used CBU's to kill the crews if we could see them. As far as I know, no
binary gas bombs, such as Sarin we even on NKP, we didn't have the equipment
there to safely handle the stuff. Non toxic gas agents were there. As well as
baby huey bombs and daisy cutters, which both have lethal and explosive gas
within them. Oh well enuff of the good ole days, excuse the interupption and
go on with the exploits of MACVSOG.
Donald L Ferry
"XYZ" <X...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>What the hell does the collection of ears, which did occur, have to do with
>the use of Sarin gas, which wasn't used??? BTW, CIA personnel had very
>little to do with operational conduct of MACV-SOG operations, i.e. military
>personnel conducted ops either with CCN, CCC, or CCS. SOG operators were
>the were among the most highly decorated during the war. The sacrifices
>that these personnel made is an inspiration to any "meat-eater". To
>disparage their contributions is at the best ill-informed and at the worst
>gutless.
>J.A.
Well this Yahoo was on the PBS show bragging about the ears he
collected. Now if the POW-MIA people got wind of a Col> NVA who
bragged about collecting American ears, his head would be demanded.
You can't make moral statements if you are unwilling to follow them!
WmWallace
Sure you can! It happens all the time. Look at Slick Willy--he goes
to church, proclaims the adherence to the 10 Commandments as defined
by the Bible. He also "preached" in a black Pentecostal church while
campaigning--yet he commits adultery which is a sin specifically
listed in the Old Testament and the New as a sin the Lord HATES. So
if Slick can do it, we all can can't we? C'mon, he's the
Coward-in-Chief! The man in command who sits in the Oral Orifice--ah
Oval Office.
WmWallace!
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358af6a...@news.mindspring.com>...
Donald L Ferry
"WmWallace" <W...@wallace.com> wrote:
>Sure you can! It happens all the time. Look at Slick Willy--he goes
>to church, proclaims the adherence to the 10 Commandments as defined
>by the Bible. He also "preached" in a black Pentecostal church while
>campaigning--yet he commits adultery which is a sin specifically
>listed in the Old Testament and the New as a sin the Lord HATES. So
>if Slick can do it, we all can can't we? C'mon, he's the
>Coward-in-Chief! The man in command who sits in the Oral Orifice--ah
>Oval Office.
>WmWallace!
>
I wouldn't even begin to compare adultry to what this CIA person did.
If so one can say well than person jaywalked = so I get to rape all
his pretty daughters = I think not!!!
WmWallace
We weren't comparing acts. You gratuitously asserted that, "You can't
make moral statements if you are unwilling to follow them!"
A gratuitous assertion is one unsupported by facts that makes a
blanket statement on a subject. Your statement qualifies as such an
assertion.
I gratuitously denied the assertion. However, I also specifically
denied the assertion by pointing to relevant, factual examples to
support my position--which you did not. My response remains the same,
we CAN make moral statements and be unwilling to follow them. It's
called lying and the Commander in Chief does it all the time.
Next.
WmWallace!
, you just made a gratuitous statement regarding morality
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358b1616...@news.mindspring.com>...
XYZ
Good Point!!!...(LOL).....But I'll keep my zipper up!!!
WmWallace wrote in message ...
>Sure you can! It happens all the time. Look at Slick Willy--he goes
>to church, proclaims the adherence to the 10 Commandments as defined
>by the Bible. He also "preached" in a black Pentecostal church while
>campaigning--yet he commits adultery which is a sin specifically
>listed in the Old Testament and the New as a sin the Lord HATES. So
>if Slick can do it, we all can can't we? C'mon, he's the
>Coward-in-Chief! The man in command who sits in the Oral Orifice--ah
>Oval Office.
>WmWallace!
>
>
>>"XYZ" <X...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What the hell does the collection of ears, which did occur, have to
>do with
>>>the use of Sarin gas, which wasn't used??? BTW, CIA personnel had
>very
>>>little to do with operational conduct of MACV-SOG operations, i.e.
>military
>>>personnel conducted ops either with CCN, CCC, or CCS. SOG
>operators were
>>>the were among the most highly decorated during the war. The
>sacrifices
>>>that these personnel made is an inspiration to any "meat-eater".
>To
>>>disparage their contributions is at the best ill-informed and at
>the worst
>>>gutless.
>>>J.A.
>>
>>
>>Well this Yahoo was on the PBS show bragging about the ears he
>>collected. Now if the POW-MIA people got wind of a Col> NVA who
>>bragged about collecting American ears, his head would be demanded.
XYZ
Donald, Ever hear the saying "don't believe everything you read ^ hear in
the media" ? I suppose the National Enquirer is a fact based publicaion
to you................................
Donald L Ferry wrote in message <358b1616...@news.mindspring.com>...
>"WmWallace" <W...@wallace.com> wrote:
>
>>Sure you can! It happens all the time. Look at Slick Willy--he goes
>>to church, proclaims the adherence to the 10 Commandments as defined
>>by the Bible. He also "preached" in a black Pentecostal church while
>>campaigning--yet he commits adultery which is a sin specifically
>>listed in the Old Testament and the New as a sin the Lord HATES. So
>>if Slick can do it, we all can can't we? C'mon, he's the
>>Coward-in-Chief! The man in command who sits in the Oral Orifice--ah
>>Oval Office.
>>WmWallace!
>>
XYZ
WmWallace: Excellent point!!!!! I've done that my entire career..(lol)
Its much easier for some some to except idiotic assertations, than to
search for facts.
To Donald Ferry: Were you involved in operations or are your "facts"
derived from manure that you have been told about or seen on the tube??
(I'd expect the latter of the two!!!)
WmWallace wrote in message ...
>make moral statements if you are unwilling to follow them!"
>
>blanket statement on a subject. Your statement qualifies as such an
>assertion.
>
>I gratuitously denied the assertion. However, I also specifically
>denied the assertion by pointing to relevant, factual examples to
>support my position--which you did not. My response remains the same,
>we CAN make moral statements and be unwilling to follow them. It's
>called lying and the Commander in Chief does it all the time.
>
>Next.
>
>WmWallace!
>
>
>
>, you just made a gratuitous statement regarding morality
XYZ
CShank, Your comments are well based. Were you ever up to Site 32, in Laos
on the N.Viet border??
J.A.
CShank9487 wrote in message
<199806192208...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>What the hell does the collection of ears, which did occur, have to do
with
>>the use of Sarin gas, which wasn't used??? BTW, CIA personnel had very
Edward
See page 141, The Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIAs Crusades."Present
at the sessions was Col John Singlaub, head of the top secret Studies and
Observation Group......Singlaub kept Shackley(read CIA) posted on the SOG's
actions in Laos." As part of the Country Team the CIA, Embassy, MACV, and
other members got and pretended that each did not know anything about what
the others were doing.
.............
XYZ wrote in message <6mgf01$esr$1...@strato.ultra.net>...
Donald L Ferry
"XYZ" <X...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>WmWallace: Excellent point!!!!! I've done that my entire career..(lol)
>Its much easier for some some to except idiotic assertations, than to
>search for facts.
>To Donald Ferry: Were you involved in operations or are your "facts"
>derived from manure that you have been told about or seen on the tube??
>(I'd expect the latter of the two!!!)
Yea I was in the field in Vietnam! Co C 1/46 - 196LIB - Americal
Division 69-70.
I know enough that in the Americal Training Division we were told to
get enemy documents. And these documents would be carried by
vietnamese women. So to find these documents we were to take these
women (especially the pretty ones) and search them for these
documents. They said that the women would carry these documents in
their orifices. And we were to probe these orifices with out penis or
our bayonett. In any case we were to probe until we were "satisfied."
I learned enough about the BS officers in Nam to know what liars and
cowards a lot of them were! To me they were not even concerned about
GI lives much less how any Vietnamese was killed!
WmWallace
Actually, I've never been concerned about how the enemy was killed
either, so long as they were dead and didn't threaten me or my team
mates any longer.
What's your beef? You apparently participated in following orders from
your superiors which amount to war crimes. Therefore, if you did you
are a war criminal yet to be punished. Why does that make you any
better than those who told you to do it? You chose to do it, knowing
what you were doing to those folks. Why whine about it now? You
should have whined about it then. Lame.
WmWallace!
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358c05b9...@news.mindspring.com>...
Donald L Ferry
"WmWallace" <calv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Actually, I've never been concerned about how the enemy was killed
>either, so long as they were dead and didn't threaten me or my team
>mates any longer.
>What's your beef? You apparently participated in following orders from
>your superiors which amount to war crimes. Therefore, if you did you
>are a war criminal yet to be punished. Why does that make you any
>better than those who told you to do it? You chose to do it, knowing
>what you were doing to those folks. Why whine about it now? You
>should have whined about it then. Lame.
>WmWallace!
Exactly where do I say I or anyone in my unit participated in such?
In any case choosing women at random to rape is hardly "killing" the
enemy = in your mind it may be. I related what the Americal Division
training center told people was acceptable behavior.
Now while out in the field, another medic in the 3rd platoon was
wounded. I was sent to replace him. There was a one person called
Mad Dog out there. While out on patrol with the 3rd platoon, I
witnessed him kill unarmed civilians. Back at based I tried to report
war crimes. I was not only not allowed to see the Col. but I was
Helicoptered back to my platoon even though I was still suppose to be
on stand down with the 3rd platoon.
A few months later I was sent forward to tend to a wounded NVA
officer. I bandaged his wounds. We wrapped a pouncho around two tree
trunks we cut down and started to take him to the evac area. The flap
of the pouncho got caught in the wind and blew over the NVA's face. I
was on one corner of the litter and the company commander told me I
was being court martialed for war crimes since I had tried to smuther
the NVA officer. That just shows you how banal and corrupt the
command structure of the Americal Division was = the worst division in
Vietnam!
WmWallace
So did you get dumped on by the UCMJ or not?
Congratulations for attempting to report the problems. You initial
post sounded as I noted in my earlier post. Thank you for your
service to our country Don. I love medics (corpsmen, etc.)! I've had
numerous times to rely on their outstanding bravery and expertise and
have never had a complaint. They were a bit rough with the Atro at
times, but hey the wound hurt worse.
Take care ol'soldier.
WmWallace!
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358c2bcf...@news.mindspring.com>...
Donald L Ferry
"WmWallace" <calv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>So did you get dumped on by the UCMJ or not?
>Congratulations for attempting to report the problems. You initial
How could they bring something so absurd against me. My Sergeant told
me afterwards I should of Verbally went after him in the field right
away. He told me I should have done it till he did remove me from the
field for war crimes or insubordination or have him eat his words. In
any case, he said the whole unit would have testified for me at the
trial.
WmWallace
Yep, should have fragged him.
:)
WmWallace!
Donald L Ferry wrote in message
<358c434a...@news.mindspring.com>...
Donald L Ferry
"WmWallace" <calv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yep, should have fragged him.
>:)
>WmWallace!
>
There was one Fragging in the 1/46th while I was in NAM. It was
directed at an officer and killed a popular Sergeant and wounded
another two people. The Sergeant was an old timer who knew the ropes
and was instrumental in helping a lot of people to survive their tour.
That kind of stuff to me was really out of order.
XYZ
I had a good friend in the Americal Div about the same time. I'm not
certain of the unit. Were you at the "hill"?
J.A.
Donald L Ferry
"XYZ" <X...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
LZ Professional and then LZ Mary Anne = Which was later famous for
being over run by the NVA while the soldiers hundered down in the
bunkers!
WmWallace
CShank9487
>>LZ Professional and then LZ Mary Anne = Which was later famous for
>>being over run by the NVA while the soldiers hundered down in the
>>bunkers!
>
>
What is "hundered down" Willie? Do you have the foggiest idea of what a
fragging or what it is like to hunker down?
Donald L Ferry
XYZ
Roger that!!! I was about to ask, CShank.....lol
J.A.
CShank9487 wrote in message
Donald L Ferry
"XYZ" <X...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>Roger that!!! I was about to ask, CShank.....lol
>J.A.
Roger what bub? I suggest you start to make some sense also. Or are
you just a piece of hype also!
CShank9487
>
>Nope never was fraggged nor didI frag!
>
>
Well to educate Willie, a fragging is to throw a grenade into the tent or
latrine (preferably while it is occupied by someone whom you dislike )., it is
also a good holloween prank to do it with a cherry bomb or an m-80. To hunker
down is to duck when whitey comes around looking for you. Got it now willie?
.
Edward
I "hunked" down a few times and I am White.
............
CShank9487 wrote in message
<199806291708...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
<snip>
Donald L Ferry
cshan...@aol.com (CShank9487) wrote:
>>
>>Nope never was fraggged nor didI frag!
>>
>>
>
>Well to educate Willie, a fragging is to throw a grenade into the tent or
>latrine (preferably while it is occupied by someone whom you dislike )., it is
>also a good holloween prank to do it with a cherry bomb or an m-80. To hunker
>down is to duck when whitey comes around looking for you. Got it now willie?
>.
So how does that dispute anything I said. By the way the person
fragged in the 1/46 in my Battalion in Vietnam was fragged in a
trench. I also hunkered down quite a few times in Vietnam. I
remember when we were shelled by our own 105's. You not only hunder
down you dig a hole fast = Ya got that Willie!!!!!!
Oh there was some counter-fraggin in Nam also!!! Sleep sound
Willie!!!!
CShank9487
Tee Seep Gi's Koon pen number ten. Koon pen ba!!!! Pom luck poo ying mock
mock. :) Read that Willie.
WmWallace!
READ THIS: You mother was good last night.
WmWallace!
CShank9487 wrote in message
<199806292329...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
WmWallace!
Me boom-boom 'yo momma san poontang buku time lass nigh...she fuckee
fuckee like reel shank hor...suckee suckee fuckee fuckee...yum yum.
CShank9487
>
>Me boom-boom 'yo momma san poontang buku time lass nigh...she fuckee
>fuckee like reel shank hor...suckee suckee fuckee fuckee...yum yum.
>WmWallace!
Oh I see Willie likes to go to the movies. What an amatuer effort, Loser, ha
ha ha.