Could someone please verify this
Dave Kifer
>
>"A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
>exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from
>the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the
>candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the
>result that a Democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always
>followed by dictatorship." - English historian, Alexander Fraser Tyler
>
>I recall it somwhat differently. I also thought the originator's name was
>Tytler, not Tyler.
I have it only slightly different, two additional words that don't
really change the meaning. I have a source, but it is one I don't
have access to, so I can't verify what follows what you have:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse
from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes
for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury
with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy
always to be followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world's
greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Those nations always progress
through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith,
from spiritual faith to great courage,
from great courage to liberty,
from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness,
from selfishness to complacency,
from complacency to dependency,
from dependency back into bondage."
--Alexander Fraser Tytler Lord Woodhouselee (1748-1813), "The Decline
and Fall of the Athenian Republic" , Scottish historian at Edinburgh
University
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]
Bud Buehler
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from
the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the
candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the
result that a Democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always
followed by dictatorship." - English historian, Alexander Fraser Tyler
I recall it somwhat differently. I also thought the originator's name was
Tytler, not Tyler.
--
Thanks, Bud
Pennsylvania
Note:. To foil spammers, omit the numbers from my return address.
4bue...@4enter.net
The Sanity Inspector
>"A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
>exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from
>the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the
>candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the
>result that a Democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always
>followed by dictatorship." - English historian, Alexander Fraser Tyler
>
>I recall it somwhat differently. I also thought the originator's name was
>Tytler, not Tyler.
Tytler it is. The American radio talk show host Neal Boortz
regularly mangles his name, or attributes the quote to Burke,
Tocqueville, Dr. Johnson, etc., thus adding to the confusion.
--
bruce
The dignified don't even enter in the game.
--The Jam
William C Waterhouse
Dave Kifer <dki...@valunet.com> writes:
>... I have a source, but it is one I don't
> have access to, so I can't verify what follows what you have:
>
> for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury
> with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy
> always to be followed by dictatorship. The average age of the world's
> greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Those nations always progress
> through the following sequence:
> From bondage to spiritual faith,
> from spiritual faith to great courage,
> from great courage to liberty,
> from liberty to abundance,
> from abundance to selfishness,
> from selfishness to complacency,
> from complacency to dependency,
> from dependency back into bondage."
> --Alexander Fraser Tytler Lord Woodhouselee (1748-1813), "The Decline
> and Fall of the Athenian Republic" , Scottish historian at Edinburgh
> University
This has been around for a few years. I think it's phony.
There certainly was a Scotsman of that name and those years.
He did indeed teach Universal History at Edinburgh, though he
was mainly a lawyer (his "Lord Woodhouselee" title comes from
his appointment to a judgeship in Scotland).
He certainly did NOT write a book called "The Decline and
Fall of the Athenian Republic" (would anyone have dared to
do so, that close to the time of Gibbon?). The account in
_Dictionary of National Biography_ lists some shorter
articles and pamphlets, but none resembles such a title.
He DID write one book on history, based on his lectures; the copy in
our library (a later edition) is called
Universal history, from the creation of the world
to the beginning of the eighteenth century.
It does (of course) discuss ancient Athens, and the author
certainly is a defender of limited monarchy as opposed to democracy.
But he does not use anything much like the words in question, and the
ideas are somewhat different. Here is a brief bit from his discussion
of ancient Greece as a whole (Book II, Chapter VI):
...patriotic spirit and the love of ingenuous freedom...became
gradually corrupted as the nation advanced in power and splendor.
Selfish ambition and the desire for rule in the commonwealth
came in place of the thirst for national glory; and at length
the enthusiasm for freedom...gave place to an enthusiasm of
another kind, still of an ingenuous nature, though far less
worthy in its aim, -- an admiration of thje fine arts...and
all those refinements which are the offspring of luxury.
...
Greece...lost with her ancient poverty her ancient virtue.
Venality and corruption pervaded every department of her
states, and became the spring of all public measures...
The idea that wealth brings less military enthusiasm and more
corruption among the leaders of government is not of course an
idea of his own; he takes it from Tacitus and other writers in
antiquity.
It is also true that the language in the supposed quotation would
ill-suit Athens. The Athenian Assembly did not vote for a "candidate
promising benefits"; it passed laws itself. It's also hard to see how
Athens's losing the battle of Chaeronea and falling under the hegemony of
King Philip of Macedon could be described as "democracy ... collaps[ing]
over loose fiscal policy ... followed by dictatorship".
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Dave Kifer
>
>Dave Kifer <dki...@valunet.com> writes:
>> "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
>> --Alexander Fraser Tytler Lord Woodhouselee (1748-1813), "The Decline
>> and Fall of the Athenian Republic" , Scottish historian at Edinburgh
>> University
>
>This has been around for a few years. I think it's phony.
[snip, after saving, rest of discussion]
Bummer! It was such a nice quote. It's going to be tough to convince
everyone, though. I have heard that it is in a quote book used by
Congresscritters (or their speechwriters, more likely).
Dave [p&e]
Stuart L. Anderson
is listed as "attributed" to Tytler and "unverified" by Respectfully
Quoted (Suzy Platt ed.) Barnes and Noble Books, 1993, item 424.
--Stu Anderson
______________________________________________________________________
Stu & Karen Anderson Renton, Washington, USA
That's Washington State, not Washington DC
stua...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/stuander/