comp.lang.lisp.revenge?
jos...@corporate-world.lisp.de
Erik Naggum <er...@point-blank.org> wrote:
> Now that Rainer Joswig and Erik Naggum have quieted down and this whole
> disgusting debacle is hopefully nearing an end, I'd like to make a simple
> comment. Early in the war, Rainer made a stink about some personal mail
> that Erik had sent him a long time ago. I sort of remember that because it
> was so wild.
Dejanews will help you to remember my remark a bit more like
just "sort of". How about a quote of it?
> What does old personal mail have to do in a newsgroup? The
> purpose of a newsgroup is to make giant minds clash in entertaining ways,
> it seems, but Rainer wanted _revenge_ in public for some private matter,
> and dug up as much irrelevant dirt as he could. Character assassination
> like that is neither a giant mind at work nor very entertaining, is it?
> Why do so many people accept it?
>
> Rainer is not alone, though. Just watching some of the recent flamewars,
> it's clear that ganging up on Erik is a fair and just and legitimate sport
> in this newsgroup, but I'm left with this sinking feeling that those who do
> it have no more noble a purpose than to get revenge for something or other.
> I don't care to read about revengeful people, especially not about those
> who have to dredge up old, hard feelings to fuel their own flames. I don't
> care to read about some revengeful little man who uses "netiquette" to get
> his revenge, either. That's a flagrant violation of netiquette just there!
>
> Since so many people need to use comp.lang.lisp to take revenge over Erik,
> maybe we could get a newsgroup for them? I suggest comp.lang.lisp.revenge,
> moderated. I nominate Rainer for moderator, so Erik wouldn't be allowed to
> post any of his vitriolic defenses. They only make more people want more
> revenge, and there's no point letting him defend himself, anyway, since
> none of the revengers care what they do to him. Left to themselves, the
> revengeful mob could then freely post the most tasteless personal attacks
> with impunity and assassinate Erik's character completely. Maybe they'll
> manage to get it out of their system, eventually, too. (But who cares?)
>
> And _maybe_ we could talk about Lisp here among people who don't have such
> an irritating problem separating the public from the private domains.
>
> --
> gunm...@point-blank.org. We aim to please.
Hey, this is a weird message if I've ever seen one.
Do we have two Eriks?
Erik talking about Erik in the third person?
AI at work?
Let's see what whois says:
$ whois -h whois.networksolutions.com POINT-BLANK.ORG
[...]
Registrant:
NAGGUM SOFTWARE (POINT-BLANK4-DOM)
Boks 1570 Vika
NO, Oslo N-0982
NO
NO
Domain Name: POINT-BLANK.ORG
Administrative Contact:
Naggum, Erik (EN9) er...@NAGGUM.NO
Naggum Software
[...]
Record last updated on 08-Jan-2001.
Record expires on 27-Dec-2001.
Record created on 27-Dec-2000.
Database last updated on 26-Jan-2001 09:51:26 EST.
[...]
Hmm...
Rainer Joswig
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
glauber
Erik Naggum <er...@point-blank.org> wrote:
> Now that Rainer Joswig and Erik Naggum have quieted down and this whole
> disgusting debacle is hopefully nearing an end, I'd like to make a simple
> comment. Early in the war, Rainer made a stink about some personal mail
glauber thought this message was pretty strange or pretty funny. He hasn't
decided which, yet.
[...]
> gunm...@point-blank.org. We aim to please.
That's like what i saw in the men's room in a restaurant once:
"We aim to please. You aim too, please!"
--
Glauber Ribeiro
thegl...@my-deja.com http://www.myvehiclehistoryreport.com
"Opinions stated are my own and not representative of Experian"
Peter Wood
> Do we have two Eriks?
> Erik talking about Erik in the third person?
> AI at work?
C'mon, Rainer! Everyone knows "Erik Naggum" is an AI program written
by Kent Pitman. I thought you guys were testing it in this thread.
(No sentient being would have made that silly remark about Kant's
"thing in itself". Back to the drawing board, eh, Kent?)
Regards,
Peter
Ps. Don't feed the lawyers; they just lose their fear of humans.
glauber
Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.net> wrote:
> * glauber <thegl...@my-deja.com>
> | glauber thought this message was pretty strange or pretty funny. He hasn't
> | decided which, yet.
>
> program had actually been willing to do what I told it to do. Sigh.
Tsk Tsk...
You should use your powers for good, not for evil.
Rainer Joswig
wrote:
> * jos...@corporate-world.lisp.de
> | Hey, this is a weird message if I've ever seen one.
>
> Well, it worked about _half_ its magic. Pity _you_ saw it, though.
No magic, no fun - just sadness.
> Since this here incredibly annoying news program won't help me lie about
> my identity even though I _own_ the goddamn machine it runs on, let me
> just crack it all open. With clever little boys who actually know how to
> invoke the whois service and who have just enough smarts to post the
> result, taking the fun out of everyhing for everybody like clever little
> boys always do, I might as well chip in and take away the rest of the
> fun. Here's what I intended the stupid losing From header to look like.
> [Those of you prejudiced fools who have by now demonstrated that you know
> much better than I do what I _intended_ to do, should post your moronic
> rejoinders to the proposed new newsgroup instead of here, thank you.]
>
> From: G I Gunmaker <gunm...@point-blank.org>
>
> Now for the extra big surprise that will astonish everybody with its wit:
> That's an _anagram_ of my name! Gee, was _I_ hiding behind that? Let's
> ask Rainer, the brilliant little boy genius who is just _one_ notch too
> smart for his own good. Would he get it if he couldn't find an anagram
> server on the Net to help him expose the fun for everybody else?
You were using the same newsreader (-> same headers), the same newsserver
(-> message-id, path), a real email-domain (-> MX records), the same language
and formatting, the content and speech, the gun reference, the
stupid "From: " mistake, ...
When there was ever a lame attempt to forge a Usenet presence, then it was
this. Do you have others - more clever - going? I was suspecting one
(similar headers, Norway in the path) - but for now I don't know.
> The really sad part is that trying to have fun with you morons is such a
> drag. You really are just a revengeful bunch of hateful losers. Go die
> or something. Especially you, Rainer. I have such overpowering pity for
> the miserable life you must have I can't describe it. All you can do is
> destroy something other people try to do, especially if it's a little
> up-beat and intended to be humorous. You deserve what you have, though.
>
> *sigh*
Yeah, *sigh*.
Rainer Joswig
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: mailto:jos...@corporate-world.lisp.de
Jochen Schmidt
> Now that Rainer Joswig and Erik Naggum have quieted down and this whole
> disgusting debacle is hopefully nearing an end, I'd like to make a simple
> comment. Early in the war, Rainer made a stink about some personal mail
> that Erik had sent him a long time ago. I sort of remember that because
> it
> was so wild. What does old personal mail have to do in a newsgroup? The
> purpose of a newsgroup is to make giant minds clash in entertaining ways,
> it seems, but Rainer wanted _revenge_ in public for some private matter,
> and dug up as much irrelevant dirt as he could. Character assassination
> like that is neither a giant mind at work nor very entertaining, is it?
> Why do so many people accept it?
>
> Rainer is not alone, though. Just watching some of the recent flamewars,
> it's clear that ganging up on Erik is a fair and just and legitimate sport
> in this newsgroup, but I'm left with this sinking feeling that those who
> do it have no more noble a purpose than to get revenge for something or
> other. I don't care to read about revengeful people, especially not about
> those
> who have to dredge up old, hard feelings to fuel their own flames. I
> don't care to read about some revengeful little man who uses "netiquette"
> to get
> his revenge, either. That's a flagrant violation of netiquette just
> there!
>
> Since so many people need to use comp.lang.lisp to take revenge over Erik,
> maybe we could get a newsgroup for them? I suggest
> comp.lang.lisp.revenge,
> moderated. I nominate Rainer for moderator, so Erik wouldn't be allowed
> to
> post any of his vitriolic defenses. They only make more people want more
> revenge, and there's no point letting him defend himself, anyway, since
> none of the revengers care what they do to him. Left to themselves, the
> revengeful mob could then freely post the most tasteless personal attacks
> with impunity and assassinate Erik's character completely. Maybe they'll
> manage to get it out of their system, eventually, too. (But who cares?)
>
> And _maybe_ we could talk about Lisp here among people who don't have such
> an irritating problem separating the public from the private domains.
Sorry I can't help but this is absolute bullshit - not only are you trying
to throw a torch into a tank of fuel you are also making prejudiced
assumptions upon people (Erik, Rainer and all other Participants)
Maybe you think in terms of "revenge", but as I have seen it neither Erik
nor Rainer try to take "revenge" for anything done to them. They are
expressing their opinions very heated - ok but that is something completely
different.
What I miss in your post is a more explicit "IMHO" as your assumptions are
all other than facts - this is what _I_ learned from this discussion maybe
you learn it too someday.
It's a thing between Erik and Rainer and I don't think it is any good to
mix into this dispute when you not feel personaly attacked.
Counting collaborateurs does not get us any further and I for my part have
heard enough opinons on that topic that I can clearly say that I don't need
_your_ opinions.
If this post has attacked any of your feelings, feel free to open YET
ANOTHER OFF TOPIC TOPLEVEL THREAD (YAOTTT ?) To bash me down.
Regards,
Jochen
Rainer Joswig
<j...@dataheaven.de> wrote:
Jochen, it was Erik. He was forging his name...
David Allen
<gunm...@point-blank.org> wrote:
> And _maybe_ we could talk about Lisp here among people who don't have such
> an irritating problem separating the public from the private domains.
You're posting in part about a post that was about
past posts that were flames.
Frankly, I'm tired of the whole damn thing. Jumping
down 2 more meta-levels of posting about flame wars
doesn't make any of it any more on-topic. So here
I am, posting about a post which was about posts
written about previous posts, and nobody has or is
going to mention anything even vaguely related to
lisp in any of these threads. And when most of the
active posters to the ng are all playing around with
these threads, you can't even killfilter everybody
whose offtopic. (Those people now include me,
thank you very much)
Make as many newsgroups as you want. Can we just
drop this though? I don't give a crusty fuck what
Erik or Rainer's problems are, and I'm not about
to go diving into Deja archives just so I too can
participate in the meta-meta-meta discussion of
flaming and Erik in c.l.l.
But who am I kidding? This is usenet.
--
David Allen
http://opop.nols.com/
Geoffrey Summerhayes
"G I Gunmaker" <gunm...@point-blank.org> wrote in message
news:31895385...@point-blank.org...
*SNIP*
> Since so many people need to use comp.lang.lisp to take revenge over Erik,
> maybe we could get a newsgroup for them? I suggest
comp.lang.lisp.revenge,
> moderated. I nominate Rainer for moderator, so Erik wouldn't be allowed
to
> post any of his vitriolic defenses. They only make more people want more
Well, you're reappearing in threads at home, anyway.
I nominate G.I. for moderator, if he can't stop Erik,
no-one can. :-)
Geoff (back to lurking)
Fernando
>Do we have two Eriks?
>Erik talking about Erik in the third person?
>AI at work?
"In 1989, a program like Henley was used to simulate netnews postings by
well-known flamers. (...) the study of the former might be called artificial
stupidity."
Ansi Common Lisp, Paul Graham, pp 407.
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------