The pot/CEL Rush deck (was Re: Manuvers vs Rush)
Derek Ray
wrote:
>of a pot/CEL deck, and wanted to see how such a theoretical deck would work.
>The crypt is, I think, pretty solid (if a tad big for a Rush deck), and I'll
>use my own POT/obf Rush deck as a template, just to make a lot of the design
>decisions easier:
>
>1x Dr. Dre, Leader of the Chronic (3) pot, cel
>1x Dr. Dre's !Bru twin (3) pot, cel
>2x Jimmy Dunnnn (4) POT, CEL
>2x Victor Toliver (4) pot, CEL
>2x Black Cat (5) pot, CEL
why not 2x Rigby (5) pot, CEL, who adds to your !Bru quotient for WMO?
Or 1x of each, to reduce duplication risk?
>2x Commander Sela (5) pot, CEL
>2x Volker (5) pot, CEL
>
>Average of 4.33, which is slightly on the heavy side, but not so bad.
>
>4x Haven
>3x Potence
>3x Blood Doll
>2x Sphinx
>1x Fame
>1x Waste Management Operation (with 5 !Bru, not too difficult to get out, and
>really good for a Rush deck)
Jolly. How about 6x Blood Doll instead? :) Blur doesn't cost THAT
much, and Dre/Jacob can still whack for 4 with a Signpost/Blur, even
both at inferior... ;) Or maybe 5x Blood Doll and 1x Potence?
>12x Bum's Rush
>8x Taste of Vitae
>12x Immortal Grapple
>12x Torn Signpost
>6x Fists of Death (maybe 10/8 of these two? But even I don't have 8 FoD...)
These all look basically sane. 6x is probably best for FoD because of
the blood cost; with pot/CEL, you do 6, remember, so you don't have to
jack it up TOO high. :)
>4x Decapitate
You have no built-in POT though. Bag these. Sure it's fun to burn
vamps, but if you just knock their heads off, it'll work almost as
well. :) Besides, waiting for a skill card sucks, and discarding
Decapitates sucks too.
>4x Disarm
Entertaining, but they're going to torpor anyway. Maybe 2x Disarm,
leaving room for:
>6x Flash
>6x Pursuit
>6x Blur
12x Blur, taken from the Decap and Disarm quotient. Now everyone gets
to have a beating of their very own.
>This hypothetical deck looks moderately solid, but probably could have various
>numbers tweaked up and down. It looks like, however, it will be very reliant on
>the CEL cards to do damage--without POT, it can only do, at max, 3 damage per
Exactly why I added in 6 extra Blurs. Now you have 12 complete
combats consisting of TS/IG/Blur, which is 6 points of damage on the
installment plan. Inferior Fortitude can now officially fuck off.
Superior Fortitude always screwed everyone but the Tremere and
Assamites anyway. :)
>strike, and it needs the FoD and Blur/Pursuit to do really serious damage to
>anyone. It'll probably have not much trouble against non combat decks, and has
>a lot of manuvers available and a good chunk of possible pressess, but against
>another combat deck, it is defenitely going to run into the "Yeek--I have been
>sent into torpor on the first strike again!" problem. It might want to have
Against plain old Potence it will get whacked, you mean. I don't know
of many other combat deck types that can do significant first-strike
hand damage. The Tzimisce or Gangrel will eat it alive, but you can
at least dodge the Tzimisce strike; plain old Potence has much the
same trouble with the Tzimisce since they tend to drop things like
Carrion Crows, ruining all that handy Taste. And the Gangrel just
prevent you and laugh.
>some Side Slips to avoid the Gangrel, but what to take out to fint in, like, 6
>of them?
I like dumping the Fists of Death, first off. There just aren't THAT
many vampires who'll have more than 6 blood on them, and you can
always press. Maybe dump 4x Fists of Death and 2x Pursuit, and add in
6x Sideslips, which with that crypt can always be cycled at superior
to prevent the hand-strike-for-1.
I would like to find someplace to stick in 2x or 4x Psyche, just for
the extra presses and the restart-combat to get rid of things like
Guard Dogs/Terror Frenzy/Carrion Crows, but it's getting a bit
card-full already. Maybe yank out 2 Blurs and the remaining 2 Disarms
(in that order, since you have 4x Pursuit) for 4 of those?
It's possible that Atlanta's average vampire size is smaller than
yours; I think ours is probably right around a 4.5/5? Often if we're
using big-ass vamps, we tend to be wanting to spend the blood off
them, too; so it's not at all uncommon to find a 7 or 8-cap with 4-5
blood after an action or two.
-- Derek
Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- C. Darwin, 1871
Derek Ray
wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>>>why not 2x Rigby (5) pot, CEL, who adds to your !Bru quotient for WMO?
>Or 1x of each, to reduce duplication risk?>>
>
>I think I meant 2x Rigby instead of 2x Comander Sela--Rigby is the 5 with pot,
>CEL, and Commander Sela is a 6 with some other stats, da? Pretend I wrote 2x
>Rigby instead of those 2x Selas :-)
*cough* So noted. :) Especially since Sela is POT/cel and doesn't
fit too well. ;) If you want a 6-cap that badly, I'd be tempted to
throw Binaca (sic) in for one Volker... her +1 strength lets you Bum's
Rush/Pursuit and whack someone for 4 who isn't expecting it. Or you
can give her a Torn Signpost and it's almost like POT/CEL! :)
>>>Jolly. How about 6x Blood Doll instead? :) Blur doesn't cost THAT
>much, and Dre/Jacob can still whack for 4 with a Signpost/Blur, even
>both at inferior... ;) Or maybe 5x Blood Doll and 1x Potence?>>
>
>I figured the Pot masters were still useful. 6 Blood Dolls are also useful, but
>Idon't think as much.
Blood Dolls = Pool Gain. Blood Dolls R00l. Especially when you're
about guaranteed to get one in the first few hands.
This could just be a reflex from using all the 5 and 6-caps that I'm
used to in my frisbee decks; a 6-cap is at "operating capacity" when
he's down to 2 blood, so you NEED a blood doll on him fast to get him
down there to begin with; esp when you're spending for a 5/6/5 and
have just coughed up 16 pool. Or all that blood sits there wasted,
and a Taste is silly. With 8x Taste, I'd use 5x Blood Dolls and 1x
Potence. With 6x Taste, I'd drop down to 4x, 2x, and two other Fun
Toys.
Resist the temptation. The POT is not necessary. You must merely hit
them lots. :) All your guys can hit them lots. This is good. :)
>>>Entertaining, but they're going to torpor anyway. Maybe 2x Disarm,
>leaving room for:>>
>
>Dude. The Disarms? So good. Always. They let Dre send Arika to torpor. Even
>without a blur. Always use all the Disarms possible. I have 4. Thus 4 :-)
But Arika just self-rescues next turn when Dre (or anyone) does this.
Not so good. Sure, you get to rush her again, but you have to knock
all the blood off of her eventually; might as well do it on the first
rush with a press :) 6 and 6 will empty her, and you just need to
spend a Flash/IG/Blur to make sure of it, and then she SITS THERE
looking like a big bleed for 11.
That's the biggest problem I have with agg-rush and why I think it'll
never fly on its own; you whack someone with agg on your turn, they
come back out on their turn, you've slowed them DOWN, but all their
untap and non-combat defense still works just fine. Eventually you
run out of Rush, or they find their combat defense, or... you get the
idea. The Gangrel do much better as a bruise-and-bleed or
intercept-and-poke clan, IMO (because you can intercept the
self-rescue, and because torporized vampires do not block bleeds =)
Also, with POT, you have Hasina Kesi, Lupo, and Koko handy to go eat
Arika, and she goes away forever. With pot/CEL, you don't have
vampires handy to commit diablerie. Your guys have to stay yours to
give out beatings. :) As fun (and powerful) as Disarm is, it's not
all that fitting in this deck.
>>>12x Blur, taken from the Decap and Disarm quotient. Now everyone gets
>to have a beating of their very own.>>
>
>Ya think? I figured that the 6 Blurs and 6 Pursuits were sufficient--maybe not.
Without additional strikes, you only hit for 2, which is sort of, um,
puny. You -have- to hit for lots in here; you even mentioned it above
in your original post, that your damage comes from the CEL, not from
the POT. :) If you get caught without a Blur or Pursuit... icky!
Put another way, my pitch deck was caught against Superior Mettle
without a Blur for about 20 cards. After 7 rounds, Quentin finally
went to torpor, STILL without me seeing a Blur. But plenty of Flashes
and Gates and the like. Whee! Blur necessary. Very.
>>>It's possible that Atlanta's average vampire size is smaller than
>yours; I think ours is probably right around a 4.5/5? Often if we're
>using big-ass vamps, we tend to be wanting to spend the blood off
>them, too; so it's not at all uncommon to find a 7 or 8-cap with 4-5
>blood after an action or two. >>
>
>Whoa. I like my Rush crypts to average under 4--faster to start, less pool
>spent. I generally expect to spend 14 pool on 4 vamps (and usually do to a T),
>but other folks I know (Josh -n- James) use bigger crypts than me, and they do
>ok too.
Hmm. Let me rephrase that one. I think the OVERALL vampire size is
4.5/5, meaning you're rarely going to encounter someone who 6 points
of damage won't torporize. I was thinking more of the opposing minion
situation as opposed to your own crypt. :)
I mean, c'mon. We have Mike "the WeenieMonger" Perlman here, after
all. :) Maybe he alters the average a bit. ;) But we don't usually
see TOO many 7 and 8-caps; certainly not enough that a well-used Haven
or casual 2nd Rush wouldn't take care of.
Peter D Bakija
>>Okay. Granted. Fake Out sucks like a thing that sucks very
much.>>
And a sucky thing it is--I tried out an all Pot deck with Fake Outs once, and
playing a combat where you have a hand size of three is not a good thing, I'll
tell you what.
>>But don't be dissing on Blur. Or Sideslip. Or Pursuit.
Or Side Strike.>>
Yeah, ok. No dissing here. I wouldn't want to incur another fatwa or something
:-)
>>All of these things (a) help you increase your chances of not getting kilt by
some random combat-having deck and (b) benefit you in a
serious-combat-vs-serious-combat deck matchup.>>
Ya think? The CEL will work just as well vs non combat decks, but generally I
find that the decks with CEL do worse mano-y-mano vs a POT aimed deck, due to
not having enough damage focused in the first strike. Yeah, the Blur will yet
you do 9 damage int he long run, but in the short run, you are doing 3 on your
first strike, while Agatha is doing 7.
>>Because you don't lose enough crypt size by dropping OBF, right?
Which is exactly why I like using Pot/Cel rather than just Pot.>>
I'm telling you, man, the POT/obf is all about Agatha and Olivia and Nigel.
He's shunned, ya know...
>>Sure, you're making that trade, but I don't know how big a trade
it is; your vamps don't get *that* much bigger (avg four is still
fairly low) and there probably aren't more than three extra skill
cards involved (and possibly less - I have 3 POT/3 CEL where you'd
probably have just 3 or 4 POT).>>
Yeah, I got 3 Pot masters. What is your Master selection? I'm currently
running:
4 Haven
3 Pot
3 Blood Doll
2 Sphinx
1 Fame
1 Storm Sewers
>>Ah, I see you know bitter when you see it.>>
I know all about bitter, baby.
>>I do have one Disarm now (from my two boxes of Sabbat War boosters), but
now I'll probably always be bitter because I didn't get to use them when they
were still usable by a vamp going to torpor...>>
Dude. That change was so wank. Hesina is less uber useful than before.
So anways, on the topic of the thread title. I was thinking about Sorrow's idea
of a pot/CEL deck, and wanted to see how such a theoretical deck would work.
The crypt is, I think, pretty solid (if a tad big for a Rush deck), and I'll
use my own POT/obf Rush deck as a template, just to make a lot of the design
decisions easier:
1x Dr. Dre, Leader of the Chronic (3) pot, cel
1x Dr. Dre's !Bru twin (3) pot, cel
2x Jimmy Dunnnn (4) POT, CEL
2x Victor Toliver (4) pot, CEL
2x Black Cat (5) pot, CEL
2x Commander Sela (5) pot, CEL
2x Volker (5) pot, CEL
Average of 4.33, which is slightly on the heavy side, but not so bad.
4x Haven
3x Potence
3x Blood Doll
2x Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Waste Management Operation (with 5 !Bru, not too difficult to get out, and
really good for a Rush deck)
12x Bum's Rush
8x Taste of Vitae
12x Immortal Grapple
12x Torn Signpost
6x Fists of Death (maybe 10/8 of these two? But even I don't have 8 FoD...)
4x Decapitate
4x Disarm
6x Flash
6x Pursuit
6x Blur
This hypothetical deck looks moderately solid, but probably could have various
numbers tweaked up and down. It looks like, however, it will be very reliant on
the CEL cards to do damage--without POT, it can only do, at max, 3 damage per
strike, and it needs the FoD and Blur/Pursuit to do really serious damage to
anyone. It'll probably have not much trouble against non combat decks, and has
a lot of manuvers available and a good chunk of possible pressess, but against
another combat deck, it is defenitely going to run into the "Yeek--I have been
sent into torpor on the first strike again!" problem. It might want to have
some Side Slips to avoid the Gangrel, but what to take out to fint in, like, 6
of them?
Comments? Ideas?
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
http://www.geocities.com/bakija6
"Why so many swords?"
"I must kill many."
-Kikuchiyo
Peter D Bakija
>>why not 2x Rigby (5) pot, CEL, who adds to your !Bru quotient for WMO?
Or 1x of each, to reduce duplication risk?>>
I think I meant 2x Rigby instead of 2x Comander Sela--Rigby is the 5 with pot,
CEL, and Commander Sela is a 6 with some other stats, da? Pretend I wrote 2x
Rigby instead of those 2x Selas :-)
>>Jolly. How about 6x Blood Doll instead? :) Blur doesn't cost THAT
much, and Dre/Jacob can still whack for 4 with a Signpost/Blur, even
both at inferior... ;) Or maybe 5x Blood Doll and 1x Potence?>>
I figured the Pot masters were still useful. 6 Blood Dolls are also useful, but
Idon't think as much.
>>You have no built-in POT though. Bag these. Sure it's fun to burn
vamps, but if you just knock their heads off, it'll work almost as
well. :) Besides, waiting for a skill card sucks, and discarding
Decapitates sucks too.>>
Good point. I just templated them in without thinking about it. Thereis room
for 4 Side Slips right off!
>>Entertaining, but they're going to torpor anyway. Maybe 2x Disarm,
leaving room for:>>
Dude. The Disarms? So good. Always. They let Dre send Arika to torpor. Even
without a blur. Always use all the Disarms possible. I have 4. Thus 4 :-)
>>12x Blur, taken from the Decap and Disarm quotient. Now everyone gets
to have a beating of their very own.>>
Ya think? I figured that the 6 Blurs and 6 Pursuits were sufficient--maybe not.
>>It's possible that Atlanta's average vampire size is smaller than
yours; I think ours is probably right around a 4.5/5? Often if we're
using big-ass vamps, we tend to be wanting to spend the blood off
them, too; so it's not at all uncommon to find a 7 or 8-cap with 4-5
blood after an action or two. >>
Whoa. I like my Rush crypts to average under 4--faster to start, less pool
spent. I generally expect to spend 14 pool on 4 vamps (and usually do to a T),
but other folks I know (Josh -n- James) use bigger crypts than me, and they do
ok too.
Peter D Bakija
>>*cough* So noted. :) Especially since Sela is POT/cel and doesn't
fit too well. ;) If you want a 6-cap that badly, I'd be tempted to
throw Binaca (sic) in for one Volker... her +1 strength lets you Bum's
Rush/Pursuit and whack someone for 4 who isn't expecting it. Or you
can give her a Torn Signpost and it's almost like POT/CEL! :)>>
Sela was all wrong. It was Rigby all along. (hey--it is like I wrote a song or
something!) Certainly don't want any 6 capacities in this deck. I can get away
with all 5's and smaller, thus I shall. I always kinda liked Bianca, but the
line has been drawn! No 6 pointers! Ever! Bwaaaaaaaa!
Ahem. Sorry. I'm much better now.
>>Blood Dolls = Pool Gain. Blood Dolls R00l. Especially when you're
about guaranteed to get one in the first few hands.>>
Oh, yeah, no one is dissing the Blood Dolls. I suspect that in this particular
deck (the pot/CEL), you are correct and the skill cards aren't particularly
necessary, as 10 of the 12 vamps inthe crypt have all the disciplines I should
ever need. Perhaps, like, 4-5 Blood Dolls and one or two other good Masters
(Fragment, Library, Barrens?).
>>But Arika just self-rescues next turn when Dre (or anyone) does this.
Not so good. Sure, you get to rush her again, but you have to knock
all the blood off of her eventually; might as well do it on the first
rush with a press :) 6 and 6 will empty her, and you just need to
spend a Flash/IG/Blur to make sure of it, and then she SITS THERE
looking like a big bleed for 11.>>
Ahh, see--I am still confused by the lack of POT. Without POT, you can't send
Agatha to Rush Arika (who, ya know, is out of fortitude or something...), hit
her for 3-5, disarm her, taste, and decapitate her. Poof. The pot/CEL deck is
losing out on this angle, sadly, but I think it can still work out just fine.
>>Without additional strikes, you only hit for 2, which is sort of, um,
puny. You -have- to hit for lots in here; you even mentioned it above
in your original post, that your damage comes from the CEL, not from
the POT. :) If you get caught without a Blur or Pursuit... icky!>>
Strong point. So I guess this deck is going to be all about the Blurs (and with
all the CEL, I suppose that is only right).
Now on a hypothetical level, however, this brings up another problem (at least
in my mind) of this deck, as opposed to a POT/something deck--you are far more
reliant on card combos than even the regular POT deck. You need *both* Torn
Signpost and Blur (along with the IG, Rush card, and whatever other manuvers
and stuff you need) to hurt someone--just the TS won't do it, and neither will
just the Blur. And if you are stuck playing the Blur without the TS, and manage
to draw the TS after, it doesn't help you. With just the POT causing the
damage, any of the cards (TS, FoD, US) are good on their own, in combination,
and in pretty much any order in a given combat. With this deck, the pot isn't
really good without the CEL, and the CEL isn't really good without the pot. You
need al the right cards at the right time, or you stall out. Not a huge issue,
but I think a little more significant in this deck than just the POT deck.
Joshua Duffin
Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 07 Dec 2000 03:37:07 GMT, pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija)
> wrote:
>
> >Derek wrote:
> >>>12x Blur, taken from the Decap and Disarm quotient. Now everyone
gets
> >to have a beating of their very own.>>
> >
> >Ya think? I figured that the 6 Blurs and 6 Pursuits were sufficient--
maybe not.
>
> Without additional strikes, you only hit for 2, which is sort of, um,
> puny. You -have- to hit for lots in here; you even mentioned it above
> in your original post, that your damage comes from the CEL, not from
> the POT. :) If you get caught without a Blur or Pursuit... icky!
>
> Put another way, my pitch deck was caught against Superior Mettle
> without a Blur for about 20 cards. After 7 rounds, Quentin finally
> went to torpor, STILL without me seeing a Blur. But plenty of Flashes
> and Gates and the like. Whee! Blur necessary. Very.
Well, your deck didn't *actually* need the Blur in that particular
combat, because you had Psyches left and right which you kept
using for presses instead of to restart combat and lose that
pesky Superior Mettle. But Psyches aren't going in this deck,
so never mind that. ;-)
Josh
tattletale of washington dc
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joshua Duffin
pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) wrote:
> Derek wrote:
> >>Blood Dolls = Pool Gain. Blood Dolls R00l. Especially when you're
> about guaranteed to get one in the first few hands.>>
>
> Oh, yeah, no one is dissing the Blood Dolls. I suspect that in this
particular
> deck (the pot/CEL), you are correct and the skill cards aren't
particularly
> necessary, as 10 of the 12 vamps inthe crypt have all the disciplines
I should
> ever need. Perhaps, like, 4-5 Blood Dolls and one or two other good
Masters
> (Fragment, Library, Barrens?).
You just have something against playing 6 Blood Dolls, don't
you? C'mon. Give it up. Put in all six. It's good with
Tastes...
> >>Without additional strikes, you only hit for 2, which is sort of,
um,
> puny. You -have- to hit for lots in here; you even mentioned it above
> in your original post, that your damage comes from the CEL, not from
> the POT. :) If you get caught without a Blur or Pursuit... icky!>>
>
I don't think this is really the case. In the POT deck, while
any of TS, FoD, and US are good on their own, they are *not*
good in any order. If you maneuver to close, Grapple, and then
draw the TS or FoD, you are sad. Being screwed by not having
TS and drawing into it on Blur is no worse than being screwed
by not having TS and drawing into it on Undead Strength - in
both cases you can press; with POT with the Grapple, with CEL
with the Flash. Likewise, for a "good" combat with POT you
need Rush, Signpost, possible maneuver, Grapple, Undead Strength.
(lose a key card and you're doing 3 damage, which sucks.) For a
"good" combat with pot/CEL you need Rush, Signpost, possible
maneuver, Grapple, Blur. Lose a key card and you're doing 3 max
damage (sup Blur no Post, or 2 if you have Post no Blur) - the 2
max possibility sucks slightly more, but not that much more.
And the 7-damage POT case is harder to draw (since you're not
playing 12 FoD) than the 6-damage pot/CEL case (since you are
playing 12 TS/Blur).
Josh
being contrary again
Joshua Duffin
pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) wrote:
> >>Okay. Granted. Fake Out sucks like a thing that sucks very
> much.>>
>
> And a sucky thing it is--I tried out an all Pot deck with Fake Outs
once, and
> playing a combat where you have a hand size of three is not a good
thing, I'll
> tell you what.
How true that is. This may have been my problem with the
weenie-potence-rush deck I tried to make - no support
discipline = no maneuvers except Fake Out. (and the ones
on the Rushes of course.)
> >>But don't be dissing on Blur. Or Sideslip. Or Pursuit.
> Or Side Strike.>>
>
> Yeah, ok. No dissing here. I wouldn't want to incur another fatwa or
something
> :-)
You'll get the death sentence on twelve systems!
> >>All of these things (a) help you increase your chances of not
getting kilt by
> some random combat-having deck and (b) benefit you in a
> serious-combat-vs-serious-combat deck matchup.>>
>
> Ya think? The CEL will work just as well vs non combat decks, but
generally I
> find that the decks with CEL do worse mano-y-mano vs a POT aimed
deck, due to
> not having enough damage focused in the first strike. Yeah, the Blur
will yet
> you do 9 damage int he long run, but in the short run, you are doing
3 on your
> first strike, while Agatha is doing 7.
Seven my potent ass. You've only got, like, four Fists of Death
in there, don't you? Doing 5, now, that's likely, and still not
good. But the pot/cel deck is fairly likely to have 5 on the
first strike itself, with the same Signpost/Undead Strength
thing, and if we both go to torpor, well, that's not as bad as
just me going to torpor.
And in any case, when two pot-based rush combat decks sit next
to each other and feel the need to fight, (a) they will both
end up somewhat screwed, and (b) they will go to torpor quite
a bit but probably be able to rescue most of the time, as long
as they don't totally run out of blood on vampires. I think
we demonstrated these principles more than a couple times in
Ithaca when you, me, and James sat down for some insane three-
combat-decks game...
> I'm telling you, man, the POT/obf is all about Agatha and Olivia and
Nigel.
> He's shunned, ya know...
He certainly is. I know I wouldn't want to be seen with him. ;-)
> Yeah, I got 3 Pot masters. What is your Master selection? I'm
currently
> running:
>
> 4 Haven
> 3 Pot
> 3 Blood Doll
> 2 Sphinx
> 1 Fame
> 1 Storm Sewers
I've got
4 Haven
3 Pot
3 Cel
3 Blood Doll
1 Fragment
I am not manly enough to use Fame or Sphinx. Sphinx cause
I still don't own any, Fame cause I don't want to put in a
fifteenth master card or something.
My crypt is doubtless larger than yours, possibly by as much
as a half-point, but probably has fewer duplicates, which
will sometimes mean that I don't pay the penalty point and
turn to get a fourth non-dupe vamp. Should be something like
1 Lupo the Butcher (2)
1 Kokinator (2)
2 Dr. Dre (3)
1 Jacob Bragggg (3)
1 Victor Tolliver (4)
2 Jimmy Dunn (4)
1 Volker the Puppet (5)
2 Anvil (6)
1 Bianca (6)
1 Cmdr. Sela (6)
avg. 4.15, 3 duplicates in 13 vamps.
> >>Ah, I see you know bitter when you see it.>>
>
> I know all about bitter, baby.
You are like the king of bitter.
> >>I do have one Disarm now (from my two boxes of Sabbat War
boosters), but
> now I'll probably always be bitter because I didn't get to use them
when they
> were still usable by a vamp going to torpor...>>
>
> Dude. That change was so wank. Hesina is less uber useful than before.
I blame the vast anti-Hasina conspiracy.
[snip the hypothetical pot/CEL deck]
> Comments? Ideas?
I think that's been covered just about enough elsewhere.
Josh
posting way too many times today
Derek Ray
wrote:
>> Put another way, my pitch deck was caught against Superior Mettle
>> without a Blur for about 20 cards. After 7 rounds, Quentin finally
>> went to torpor, STILL without me seeing a Blur. But plenty of Flashes
>> and Gates and the like. Whee! Blur necessary. Very.
>
>Well, your deck didn't *actually* need the Blur in that particular
>combat, because you had Psyches left and right which you kept
>using for presses instead of to restart combat and lose that
>pesky Superior Mettle. But Psyches aren't going in this deck,
>so never mind that. ;-)
hehehe. Turned out good for me, though; after 20 cards I still only
had 2 Legals and one Rush action in hand. Apparently I was somewhat
short on actual ACTION cards, not to mention Blurs. :)
Xian
"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@aol.comANTISPAM> wrote in message
news:20001207215044...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
> I'm curenntly standing at:
>
> 2x Hesina (1)
> 2x KoKo-liscious (2)
> 2x Duck (3)
> 2x Agatha (4)
> 1x Olivia (5)
> 1x Nigel (5)
> 1x Ox (6)
> 1x Beast (7)
>
> avg of 3.58 with duplication like you wouldn't believe. Oh, wait. You would.
Just cause I want to compare...
2x Hasina
2x Koko
1x Lupo
2x Duck
1x Watenda
1x Agatha
2x Olivia
1x Beast
12, average of 3.17...Watenda for kicks...
Xian
Derek Ray
wrote:
>Sela was all wrong. It was Rigby all along. (hey--it is like I wrote a song or
>something!) Certainly don't want any 6 capacities in this deck. I can get away
>with all 5's and smaller, thus I shall. I always kinda liked Bianca, but the
>line has been drawn! No 6 pointers! Ever! Bwaaaaaaaa!
not even anvil? ;) (actually, anvil would be much better than
binaca. he doesnt have the bonus +1 but he does have POT; and he does
have that important vote that you can cast for Bribes.)
>Ahem. Sorry. I'm much better now.
I see that. If you ever set a Rush deck tune to that Gilbert and
Sullivan piece about a "modern Major-General", I shall send a large,
hairy minion to slap you soundly.
>>>Blood Dolls = Pool Gain. Blood Dolls R00l. Especially when you're
>about guaranteed to get one in the first few hands.>>
>
>Oh, yeah, no one is dissing the Blood Dolls. I suspect that in this particular
>deck (the pot/CEL), you are correct and the skill cards aren't particularly
>necessary, as 10 of the 12 vamps inthe crypt have all the disciplines I should
>ever need. Perhaps, like, 4-5 Blood Dolls and one or two other good Masters
>(Fragment, Library, Barrens?).
Well, I like one Potence master, actually. If you get it, it's kinda
neat, and it doesn't get in the way of the Blood Dolls. I don't like
the Fragment as much because people always come to get your Fraggie,
and you can't necessarily spend actions to get it back. Granted,
nobody will BLOCK your actions, but the action to take a tapped
Fraggie away from the deck that played it is usually worth more than
the action to take the tapped Fraggie BACK. The Barrens is always
good; both it and the Library live in my pitch deck, mostly because
the Library doesn't get contested as much as the Barrens/Fraggie do.
You already have a Fame in there. Maybe an Anarch Troublemaker to
erase any pesky equipment your prey might be able to produce, or to
tap him out if he takes a risk and drops himself within striking
distance?
>Ahh, see--I am still confused by the lack of POT. Without POT, you can't send
>Agatha to Rush Arika (who, ya know, is out of fortitude or something...), hit
>her for 3-5, disarm her, taste, and decapitate her. Poof. The pot/CEL deck is
>losing out on this angle, sadly, but I think it can still work out just fine.
Right. :) It can't burn vamps, ever. You kind of get used to that.
No ripping arms off, no ripping heads off. Just beatings. Lots of
beatings. Really, it should be called "pummelling" in this; more
...descriptive? Anyway.
>Strong point. So I guess this deck is going to be all about the Blurs (and with
>all the CEL, I suppose that is only right).
The whole idea is TS/IG/Blur. Very basic, and only three cards, so
it's difficult to NOT have one in your hand at any given moment. All
the rest are optional window dressing.
>Now on a hypothetical level, however, this brings up another problem (at least
>in my mind) of this deck, as opposed to a POT/something deck--you are far more
>reliant on card combos than even the regular POT deck. You need *both* Torn
>Signpost and Blur (along with the IG, Rush card, and whatever other manuvers
>and stuff you need) to hurt someone--just the TS won't do it, and neither will
>just the Blur. And if you are stuck playing the Blur without the TS, and manage
>to draw the TS after, it doesn't help you. With just the POT causing the
>damage, any of the cards (TS, FoD, US) are good on their own, in combination,
>and in pretty much any order in a given combat. With this deck, the pot isn't
>really good without the CEL, and the CEL isn't really good without the pot. You
>need al the right cards at the right time, or you stall out. Not a huge issue,
>but I think a little more significant in this deck than just the POT deck.
Yep. It's easier to hit for something significant in a POT deck;
TS/IG still does 3 points of damage, which I consider to be the bare
minimum of worthwhile Rushness. You can play an IG/Blur in this deck
and hit for 3, although frankly, with 12/12/12 of each, the odds of
you never having it in hand or being unable to draw up to it are going
to be fairly slight. Even in a POT deck you have to play TS/FoD, IG,
US in that order; and if you're out of IG then people seem to find all
sorts of nasty things to do that don't involve them dying.
The real worries about hand-jam I'd see would be getting stuck on too
many maneuvers (too few maneuvers is only a problem when you don't
catch them, and even then you usually have a very nice pile of combat
in hand), and maybe too many toys or Masters. The maneuvers you can't
do much about, since you need what we got; at least some of them can
be burned for additional strikes. The toys and Masters, well... there
aren't too many toys in the deck anymore (Taste and Sideslip are
pretty much 'it', and both of those can be cycled freely at the end of
any combat round ("i prevent your 1 and Taste the 1 I did to you."),
but you are running 14 Masters. =/ The Dreams help out on that
enormously, of course, since you just tap to increase your hand size
every time you begin a new round of beatings (and ditch what you can't
use or don't need), but I only run 10 Masters in my pitch deck. :) I
guess drop the Waste Management and the other toy first if you start
running into Master jam, but I don't see much that can really "go" in
the Masters pile. Hmph.
Peter D Bakija
>>Seven my potent ass. You've only got, like, four Fists of Death
in there, don't you?>>
Hey! I could have, like, 6 or something!
>>Doing 5, now, that's likely, and still not good. But the pot/cel deck is
fairly likely to have 5 on the first strike itself, with the same
Signpost/Undead Strength
thing, and if we both go to torpor, well, that's not as bad as
just me going to torpor.>>
Ahh--you are using Undead Strength in there, aren't you. The hypothetical deck
we are monkeying withhas none, only TS and FoD. I don't know is that is such a
good idea, but that is what we have going.
>>I've got
4 Haven
3 Pot
3 Cel
3 Blood Doll
1 Fragment>>
Yeah, I get a Storm Sewers (which is good), a Fame (which is also good--the
"lather, rinse, repeat" part is hysterical if you can get it to work...), and
an extra card cycler (2 Sphinx instead of 1 Fragment). And those three cards
will be the key to my ultimate victory, and why you shall be denied :-)
>>1 Lupo the Butcher (2)
1 Kokinator (2)
2 Dr. Dre (3)
1 Jacob Bragggg (3)
1 Victor Tolliver (4)
2 Jimmy Dunn (4)
1 Volker the Puppet (5)
2 Anvil (6)
1 Bianca (6)
1 Cmdr. Sela (6)
avg. 4.15, 3 duplicates in 13 vamps.>>
I'm curenntly standing at:
2x Hesina (1)
2x KoKo-liscious (2)
2x Duck (3)
2x Agatha (4)
1x Olivia (5)
1x Nigel (5)
1x Ox (6)
1x Beast (7)
avg of 3.58 with duplication like you wouldn't believe. Oh, wait. You would.
>>You are like the king of bitter.>>
Bitter like a really bitter guy. Have I told you lately that I go to the school
of the damned?
Joshua Duffin
pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) wrote:
> >>Seven my potent ass. You've only got, like, four Fists of Death
> in there, don't you?>>
>
> Hey! I could have, like, 6 or something!
Yeah, but do you? And even if you did it wouldn't be that
likely, would it.
[re my actual pot/cel deck vs all-pot]
> Ahh--you are using Undead Strength in there, aren't you. The
hypothetical deck
> we are monkeying withhas none, only TS and FoD. I don't know is that
is such a
> good idea, but that is what we have going.
Yeah, I dunno, for rush decks I have never been a big fan
of trying to start with all-superior of some particular
discipline on your vamps. I find it gives me a happier
vampire selection to use the smaller guys with inferiors
and play with a few more skill cards. For non-rush decks
I think it can be a better plan, since having small vamps
isn't necessarily so key, and you may have much better uses
for the master slots. But even there it can get you into
bad vamp choices - I'm working on a dom/for bleed/Dawn Op/
prevent/Grave Rob deck; the first incarnation had all superiors
of both DOM and FOR, and all the vamps were huge, and it
never worked even once (it also had 5ths/Taps in that version,
and part of the problem was that people would block the 5ths,
and the Dawn Ops weren't enough deterrent for that). Its
new version has smaller vamps, none bigger than 6, and it
seems to work a little better (though still not well enough,
at least yet), although I do keep running into not being
able to Govern superior onto a 6-cap when my 6-cap already
out has superior of both and can't get bigger with a skill
card (oh Vanessa, you're so good and so bad at the same time).
> Yeah, I get a Storm Sewers (which is good), a Fame (which is also
good--the
> "lather, rinse, repeat" part is hysterical if you can get it to
work...), and
> an extra card cycler (2 Sphinx instead of 1 Fragment). And those
three cards
> will be the key to my ultimate victory, and why you shall be denied :-
)
Curse you, dog-man! You and the Sphinxes you rode in on!
> I'm curenntly standing at:
>
> 2x Hesina (1)
> 2x KoKo-liscious (2)
> 2x Duck (3)
> 2x Agatha (4)
> 1x Olivia (5)
> 1x Nigel (5)
> 1x Ox (6)
> 1x Beast (7)
>
> avg of 3.58 with duplication like you wouldn't believe. Oh, wait. You
would.
Heh. Actually I guess 4 in 12 isn't all *that* much worse than
3 in 13. I could hypothetically go to 2 in 12 if I dropped a
Dre, although it would marginally raise my average.
> >>You are like the king of bitter.>>
>
> Bitter like a really bitter guy. Have I told you lately that I go to
the school
> of the damned?
The school of the damned? Really? Sounds evil. You'll have
to tell me about it next week...
Josh
everything in its own time
Xian
Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> bad vamp choices - I'm working on a dom/for bleed/Dawn Op/
> prevent/Grave Rob deck; the first incarnation had all superiors
> of both DOM and FOR, and all the vamps were huge, and it
> never worked even once (it also had 5ths/Taps in that version,
> and part of the problem was that people would block the 5ths,
> and the Dawn Ops weren't enough deterrent for that). Its
> new version has smaller vamps, none bigger than 6, and it
> seems to work a little better (though still not well enough,
You aren't playing with Iliana? She is *the* vampire in my dom/for/tha
deck. She's better than Cardan^H^H^H^H^H^H...I mean, I am Cardano's
bitch, and Iliana is the second-best vampire in the deck.
Iliana - 7 Gangrel PRO DOM FOR tha (no contracts on her)
Dude, you should be playing Iliana, and the two 7 Ventrue princes. If
you don't, you are smoking lots and lots of crack. Even if you just
use them as your largest vampires and switch them out for 3 in your
current crypt. Also, I'd go with Blood Dolls instead of MTaps/5ths, as
you need a pile of blood on you vampires in this style deck. GtUs
cost, combat/prevent costs, rescuing costs...
Of course, Dawn Op/Skin of Night/Weather Control is more sure-fire
torpor-licious, if more fragile.
Xian
--
But rain falls down and I feel cold
A cold that sleeps within my heart
It tears the earth and sun apart
--New Order, "Shellshock"
Pat Ricochet
> of trying to start with all-superior of some particular
> discipline on your vamps. I find it gives me a happier
> vampire selection to use the smaller guys with inferiors
> and play with a few more skill cards. For non-rush decks
> I think it can be a better plan, since having small vamps
> isn't necessarily so key, and you may have much better uses
> for the master slots.
into place) on the use of skill cards. Right now our metagame is really
heavy on Sudden Reversals, so Skill Card decks just aren't a good option
these days. Minion Tap is also a bad idea, these days. Blood Dolls are ok,
though I Suddened two of Davila's in consecutive turns last game. (two in
my opening hand. The smack talk was fun, though:
"Blood Doll on..."
"Sudden."
"No problem, I'll just play another next turn."
"No problem, I'll just Sudden that one, too."
"Yeah, right."
(time passes)
"Blood Do.."
"Sudden!"
"F*ck you, Pat."
Maybe he was more polite about it. Maybe not. =)
Though, recently, the all-powerful Direct Intervention has been getting
a lot more play. Played poorly, that card really isn't too powerful,
costing a pool and all. Played well . . . hoo boy can that card make so
many decks' strategy come to a screeching halt.
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
Joshua Duffin
Pat Ricochet <sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote:
> I've waffled back and forth and back again (and still haven't
settled
> into place) on the use of skill cards. Right now our metagame is
really
> heavy on Sudden Reversals, so Skill Card decks just aren't a good
option
> these days. Minion Tap is also a bad idea, these days. Blood Dolls
are ok,
> though I Suddened two of Davila's in consecutive turns last game.
(two in
> my opening hand. The smack talk was fun, though:
> "Blood Doll on..."
> "Sudden."
> "No problem, I'll just play another next turn."
> "No problem, I'll just Sudden that one, too."
> "Yeah, right."
> (time passes)
> "Blood Do.."
> "Sudden!"
> "F*ck you, Pat."
> Maybe he was more polite about it. Maybe not. =)
Nice one. :-)
> Though, recently, the all-powerful Direct Intervention has been
getting
> a lot more play. Played poorly, that card really isn't too powerful,
> costing a pool and all. Played well . . . hoo boy can that card make
so
> many decks' strategy come to a screeching halt.
I noticed this - at Crusade Columbia last weekend there were
a number of Atlantans present, and the Suddens and DIs were
flying. There were 3 DIs played in the final (though one was
Suddened, and one was played by a Marylander).
In my group, most people aren't playing that many Suddens
that often. Personally I almost never do; I always find
myself getting angry at them for sitting there clogging up
my hand instead of being playable right away. Then I start
frothing at the mouth, rip up the Sudden, and draw a new
card. That'll solve the problem eventually, of course, since
I won't have any more Suddens to accidentally put into my
decks, but I think the frothing is worrying my opponents.
Suddens are nice for Minion Taps, of course, but I've been
finding it more satisfying to block the 5ths than try to
Reverse the Taps. (and if they're not 5thing, the Taps
aren't all that bad - unhappy if you're their predator,
but happy, sometimes, if you're their prey...)
Josh
probably not as crazy as mike ooi, but pretending
Joshua Duffin
xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote:
[snip re my dom/for deck]
> You aren't playing with Iliana? She is *the* vampire in my
dom/for/tha
> deck. She's better than Cardan^H^H^H^H^H^H...I mean, I am Cardano's
> bitch, and Iliana is the second-best vampire in the deck.
>
> Iliana - 7 Gangrel PRO DOM FOR tha (no contracts on her)
>
> Dude, you should be playing Iliana, and the two 7 Ventrue princes. If
> you don't, you are smoking lots and lots of crack. Even if you just
> use them as your largest vampires and switch them out for 3 in your
> current crypt. Also, I'd go with Blood Dolls instead of MTaps/5ths,
as
> you need a pile of blood on you vampires in this style deck. GtUs
> cost, combat/prevent costs, rescuing costs...
Mmmm. Crack.
I do *like* Iliana and Sir Walter Nash (Nash Nash, all dressed
in black, black, black) and Timothy Crowley ('s dead, na na-na-
na na naa na, Timothy Crowley). But I'm not using Protean,
Thaumaturgy, Presence, or Animalism. And Tim doesn't have DOM.
And both Tim and Sir Walter would be contestable far too often.
And their skills aren't any better than Vanessa's, and only
marginally better than Lucia's or Marlene's, and if I replaced
smaller vamps with 'em I'd be back to the all-big-vamp crypt.
> Of course, Dawn Op/Skin of Night/Weather Control is more sure-fire
> torpor-licious, if more fragile.
Yeah. Much more fragile. And nobody will *ever* block you
again if you do it once. Which is okay if you can plan for
it, but the thing is, if you have enough non-combo cards to
have plenty to do when you're not being blocked, you probably
don't have enough copies of the combo to do it reliably when
you want to. I've been running into that problem enough
already just with DOM/FOR - not enough Governs *plus* I don't
always have a Dawn Op when I want it. *And* there's not enough
vampire blood-gain in the deck - definitely ought to put in
a Hunting Ground at least; my vamps kept running way low from
Blood Dolls and not having enough ways to fill up. Should put
in a few more Restorations too I guess. (I have indeed been
using Blood Dolls w/the smaller-vamp crypt...)
Josh
bogarting the crack pipe
Xian
Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Mmmm. Crack.
Tell it, brother!
> I do *like* Iliana and Sir Walter Nash (Nash Nash, all dressed
> in black, black, black) and Timothy Crowley ('s dead, na na-na-
> na na naa na, Timothy Crowley). But I'm not using Protean,
That last one was a bit of a stretch...
> Thaumaturgy, Presence, or Animalism. And Tim doesn't have DOM.
So include Animalism! That's what you need. More disciplines to
fatten up your crypt! Yum...DotB...
> > Of course, Dawn Op/Skin of Night/Weather Control is more sure-fire
> > torpor-licious, if more fragile.
>
> Yeah. Much more fragile. And nobody will *ever* block you
> again if you do it once. Which is okay if you can plan for
My last version had 8 of each (well, 10 WC)...I think I'm going to drop
it to 6 each. That should be enough to reliably get it, and not make
up *too* much of the library.
> it, but the thing is, if you have enough non-combo cards to
> have plenty to do when you're not being blocked, you probably
> don't have enough copies of the combo to do it reliably when
> you want to. I've been running into that problem enough
I know, I know...oh how it pains me. I really misjudged the level of
play for our first tournament. I'd swept with the deck two months
before, hadn't played it since, and figured that they'd keep blocking
me. This turned out to not be the case. Well, plus I got a bleed
deflected to me, and the Malk (on approximately the 5th turn) had
decided that *I* was "a big threat", and so when I declined to block
his deflected bleed, he threw down a superior Conditioning on top of
it. Cross-table!!!
Anyway. They still let people cycle stealth, but they've learned to
stop blocking the Dawn Op/Weather Control jive. I don't know what's up
with that.
Of course, I still love it...the damage prevention and Majesties they
pack do nothing against those morning thunderstorms.
> already just with DOM/FOR - not enough Governs *plus* I don't
> always have a Dawn Op when I want it. *And* there's not enough
How many Dawn Ops do you have in the deck? 8 or so?
> vampire blood-gain in the deck - definitely ought to put in
> a Hunting Ground at least; my vamps kept running way low from
> Blood Dolls and not having enough ways to fill up. Should put
> in a few more Restorations too I guess. (I have indeed been
> using Blood Dolls w/the smaller-vamp crypt...)
Restorations are all good. Or if your're in torpor a lot, Regeneration
is nice...but it'll fill most of your vampires *all* the way up.
Xian
Still thinks Brad Pitt's best role was in True Romance...
--
But rain falls down and I feel cold
A cold that sleeps within my heart
It tears the earth and sun apart
--New Order, "Shellshock"
James Coupe
>I mean, I am Cardano's
>bitch
Careful. Andrew will try and troll with his "No poofters" remark again.
--
James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D
"It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back again,
it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with
being poor." - James, "Sit Down"
Joshua Duffin
xi...@waste.org (Xian) wrote:
> In article <90rmt5$99m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> > Mmmm. Crack.
>
> Tell it, brother!
Joshua Duffin has reserved some virtual crack rock for you!
To pick it up, all you need to do is point your web browser at:
Your dealers pager number is: 714-3582
Your dealer will hold on to this crack for 30 days from the date
of this notification. Your crack will be re-sold or smoked
after that date.
> > I do *like* Iliana and Sir Walter Nash (Nash Nash, all dressed
> > in black, black, black) and Timothy Crowley ('s dead, na na-na-
> > na na naa na, Timothy Crowley). But I'm not using Protean,
>
> That last one was a bit of a stretch...
What?? A stretch? Come on! They both end in "ly", they both
have the first name Timothy, "Crowley" has the right number of
syllables...
> > Thaumaturgy, Presence, or Animalism. And Tim doesn't have DOM.
>
> So include Animalism! That's what you need. More disciplines to
> fatten up your crypt! Yum...DotB...
Yes. Because bigger vampires are always better.
> > > Of course, Dawn Op/Skin of Night/Weather Control is more sure-fire
> My last version had 8 of each (well, 10 WC)...I think I'm going to
drop
> it to 6 each. That should be enough to reliably get it, and not make
> up *too* much of the library.
Six each might not be enough for a three-card combo. Could be,
though, if you don't have to use it too often.
> > it, but the thing is, if you have enough non-combo cards to
> > have plenty to do when you're not being blocked, you probably
> > don't have enough copies of the combo to do it reliably when
> > you want to. I've been running into that problem enough
>
> I know, I know...oh how it pains me. I really misjudged the level of
> play for our first tournament. I'd swept with the deck two months
> before, hadn't played it since, and figured that they'd keep blocking
> me. This turned out to not be the case. Well, plus I got a bleed
> deflected to me, and the Malk (on approximately the 5th turn) had
> decided that *I* was "a big threat", and so when I declined to block
> his deflected bleed, he threw down a superior Conditioning on top of
> it. Cross-table!!!
Heh. I hate that when that happens. Nobody likes an unpreventable
combo, you know. ;-)
> Anyway. They still let people cycle stealth, but they've learned to
> stop blocking the Dawn Op/Weather Control jive. I don't know what's
up
> with that.
They know it's bad to have their vamps sent to torpor (or burned)
but haven't wised up that it's bad to lose pool? Probably not
that surprising, really, since you can keep playing your game
with low pool right up until you get whacked.
> Of course, I still love it...the damage prevention and Majesties they
> pack do nothing against those morning thunderstorms.
Yeees.
> > already just with DOM/FOR - not enough Governs *plus* I don't
> > always have a Dawn Op when I want it. *And* there's not enough
>
> How many Dawn Ops do you have in the deck? 8 or so?
Nine, last time I played it. Might add one, might not. Definitely
seem to need more +bleed, kept having none and bleeding for one.
Definitely don't like the unblockable mods in this deck (forgot
if I mentioned that before); sending my vamps to torpor with
Day Op/Daring the Dawn is just not cool, they get low enough on
blood just from the Governs and Skins of Steel w/o also having to
pay two to rescue (or have to draw the Rapid Healing).
> Restorations are all good. Or if your're in torpor a lot,
Regeneration
> is nice...but it'll fill most of your vampires *all* the way up.
The only thing I don't like about Regeneration is, your vamp
is still in torpor afterwards, so either you leave them in
an extra turn (asking for diablerie) or rescue with another
vamp (using an extra action). It's interesting how they balanced
the different Fortitude actions: Restoration gives you 2/3 up
front, no strings; Regeneration gives you 4/5 if you're in torpor,
which is enough additional to pay for the rescue; Rapid Healing
gives you 0/1 and brings you out of torpor, saving you the 2 for
the rescue. As if they should all be equivalent to Restoration
or something. So clever. ;-)
> Xian
>
> Still thinks Brad Pitt's best role was in True Romance...
True Romance? You didn't like him in Fight Club? Though I
actually haven't seen True Romance, so maybe I shouldn't talk.
Josh
when I was little someone pointed out to me
some constellations but the big dipper's all I could see
Sorrow
> to have a beating of their very own.>>
> Ya think? I figured that the 6 Blurs and 6 Pursuits were sufficient--maybe
not.
Maybe 4 Pursuits and 8 Blurs, but the Pursuit's should definitely stay.
Flash is good for the Manuever/Press, but Pursuit can also be used
as a Maneuver. A good backup of Flash isn't in hand. Or even better,
if Blur isn't in hand. The dual usefulness of this card just cannot be
passed up, especially not in a CEL deck.
Sorrow
---
If you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on,
you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made
your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you
from the earth.
^
|-- Jacob's Ladder, too, Xian. You should see it if you
haven't already.
Sorrow
> max possibility sucks slightly more, but not that much more.
> And the 7-damage POT case is harder to draw (since you're not
> playing 12 FoD) than the 6-damage pot/CEL case (since you are
> playing 12 TS/Blur).
Another thing to consider is that basic Fortitude will screw over
POT while it will not screw over CEL.
Sorrow
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"No, you're insane" -Tyler Durden
Derek Ray
>> >>12x Blur, taken from the Decap and Disarm quotient. Now everyone gets
>> to have a beating of their very own.>>
>> Ya think? I figured that the 6 Blurs and 6 Pursuits were sufficient--maybe
>not.
>
>Maybe 4 Pursuits and 8 Blurs, but the Pursuit's should definitely stay.
>Flash is good for the Manuever/Press, but Pursuit can also be used
>as a Maneuver. A good backup of Flash isn't in hand. Or even better,
>if Blur isn't in hand. The dual usefulness of this card just cannot be
>passed up, especially not in a CEL deck.
12 Blurs *and* 6 Pursuits was what I was suggesting.
Sorrow
> >Flash is good for the Manuever/Press, but Pursuit can also be used
> >as a Maneuver. A good backup of Flash isn't in hand. Or even better,
> >if Blur isn't in hand. The dual usefulness of this card just cannot be
> >passed up, especially not in a CEL deck.
> 12 Blurs *and* 6 Pursuits was what I was suggesting.
Ahh, my bad. It didn't seem like that was the case. Leave it to me
to misinterpret.
Sorrow
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"...but you know, evil is an exact science..."