Sushi eating HOWTO
ghost
at the request of several friends i put together a "sushi eating HOWTO"
document; it covers basic protocol and food at the sushi bar. if you
have a chance, could you please have a look and provide your feedback?
http://lavender.cime.net/~ciurana/sushi-eating-HOWTO.html
it began as an email to my brother. later many of my friends wanted a
copy of it, so i decided to make it more formal.
this is not a commercial advertising for anything. i really just want to
improve the content. the style of the document, jokingly, resembles a
UNIX HOWTO manual. it has lots of bullet points and is very concise.
if you like it and find it accurate, i would probably convert it to an
ASCII file and post it in this newsgroup. i'm also planning Spanish,
Russian and French translations.
thanks in advance, and best wishes,
pr3d4t0r
"Use simple tools and superior grey matter to
figure out what's wrong." -- Mattew Strebe
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> greetings,
>
> at the request of several friends i put together a "sushi eating HOWTO"
> document; it covers basic protocol and food at the sushi bar. if you
> have a chance, could you please have a look and provide your feedback?
>
> http://lavender.cime.net/~ciurana/sushi-eating-HOWTO.html
>
> it began as an email to my brother. later many of my friends wanted a
> copy of it, so i decided to make it more formal.
>
> this is not a commercial advertising for anything. i really just want to
> improve the content. the style of the document, jokingly, resembles a
> UNIX HOWTO manual. it has lots of bullet points and is very concise.
>
> if you like it and find it accurate, i would probably convert it to an
> ASCII file and post it in this newsgroup. i'm also planning Spanish,
> Russian and French translations.
>
> thanks in advance, and best wishes,
Normally I think these kinds of things suck, but yours seems to start
off pretty well. I haven't read it all. I find the "rules" a bit
rigid. I'd suggest a precursor that any suggestion can be inapplicable
based on time and place, but if you see it violated keep your eyes
open. I don't agree with this one:
> 10.The morsels of fish atop nigiri pieces are so large that you can barely see
> the rice underneath (believe it or not, some people think that the sushi place
> is good because you get big pieces of fish)
Though at one time I thought this was the case I have since run into
quite good sush places where the chef is inclined to over run the ends
of the rice.
Also I have not gotten to the point that if I can't SEE the sushi cef
and the activity I don't order sushi. If it's done in the kitchen I
wouldn't order even a California roll.
I've never heard the word "shokunin". I've always herad the word
itamae.
Besides sushi from the chef I also order sashimi, salads, some cooked
items (baked mussels) and in some places many other cooked items are
supervised and delivered by the sushi chef.
Why do you order Sho chiko bai hot? Me I'd recommend never drinking
hot sake unless you're impervious to headache from cheap sake. But if
condoned it I would order a call-sake (is that why you mention it?) and
indicate it should not be served hot, but warm, and ordered this way.
No mention of making a distinct attempt to talk casually with those
around you. I find it really creepy when people at the sushi bar
(usually Americans) try to make imaginary boundaries among themselves.
Just a casual comment or two among one another makes the environment so
much more enjoyable. Unlike many places in america where you're
expected to pretend you are alone, a sushi bar is not one of these.
You say:
> 19. Tips: The shokunin and rest of the staff are tipped separately must go to
> the shokunin. Don't leave it on the bar. Fold the bills in a small packet
> and hand them over to the chef over the counter, with your palm on top so the
> bills aren't visible. Thank him as he palms the money in his hand.
We've had un-ending discussion on this. I have never tipped directly,
but on the tab, and have rarely ever seen the chef and wait-staff
tipped separately. I have seen the chef tipped directly and seen the
money then gathered by or handed to the waitperson as the patron
leaves.
I would never hand a sushi chef money directly. I've seen it all of
about 4 or 5 times in my life and it always looks awkward. But the main
thing is I don't want money--passed through a jillion hands--put into
the hands of the guy working my fish. He'll just have to wash his
hands again. For this reason, don't shake his hand either.
I don't have time for more but will continue later. I would only
counsel that the document could easily be a third the size. Most of
the info is quite applicable and true, for most who would need or could
use such a document there is hardly any point in giving them this
abundance of information, as it's too much to remember. You might
consider a doc for total beginners, ("How to avoid looking like an
idiot") and one for those who've removed the training wheels ("How to
find the secret treasurers"). In either case it could be whittled to a
thrid the word count.
Dan Logcher
> greetings,
>
> at the request of several friends i put together a "sushi eating HOWTO"
> document; it covers basic protocol and food at the sushi bar. if you
> have a chance, could you please have a look and provide your feedback?
>
> http://lavender.cime.net/~ciurana/sushi-eating-HOWTO.html
Not bad at first glance. I'll take a longer look later.
So where did you get your info?
--
Dan
Predator
says...
> Normally I think these kinds of things suck, but yours seems to start
> off pretty well. I haven't read it all. I find the "rules" a bit
thanks for your feedback. i appreciate the time you took in reading the
document.
> rigid. I'd suggest a precursor that any suggestion can be inapplicable
> based on time and place, but if you see it violated keep your eyes
> open. I don't agree with this one:
>
> > 10.The morsels of fish atop nigiri pieces are so large that you can barely see
> > the rice underneath (believe it or not, some people think that the sushi place
> > is good because you get big pieces of fish)
>
> Though at one time I thought this was the case I have since run into
> quite good sush places where the chef is inclined to over run the ends
> of the rice.
>
some of my favourite chefs do overrun the ends (axially) of the rice; i
was talking about a couple of places in silicon valley where you really
cannot see the rice at all. the quality of the fish is so-so, and they
seem to try to make up for it by giving you more.
> Also I have not gotten to the point that if I can't SEE the sushi cef
> and the activity I don't order sushi. If it's done in the kitchen I
> wouldn't order even a California roll.
it's there in a succint way; i mentioned something like "if you eat a
table, take a quick stroll to the sushi bar to check what's available."
no sushi bar, don't order; it's kind of implied but i will probably spell
it out.
> I've never heard the word "shokunin". I've always herad the word
> itamae.
will make the correction; i was told last night by my japanese sushi bar
neighbours that shokunin is too formal and that i should use itamae.
shokunin is equivalent to "craftsman" and may be applied to other high-
skill occupations.
> Besides sushi from the chef I also order sashimi, salads, some cooked
> items (baked mussels) and in some places many other cooked items are
> supervised and delivered by the sushi chef.
sushi + sashimi + salads = OK if you can see that food at the bar or in
the sushi bar menu. everything else get from the waiters.
i should probably change the wording to "if it's at the sushi bar, order
it from the itamae..." and explicitly say "don't order items from the
restaurant menu like sukiyaki from the itamae".
> Why do you order Sho chiko bai hot?
to evaporate any residual ethil alcohol left from the fermentation
process. the guys from Takara (makers of this sake and with at least two
restaurants in the SF Bay Area) recommend it hot.
> No mention of making a distinct attempt to talk casually with those
> around you. I find it really creepy when people at the sushi bar
> (usually Americans) try to make imaginary boundaries among themselves.
> Just a casual comment or two among one another makes the environment so
> much more enjoyable. Unlike many places in america where you're
> expected to pretend you are alone, a sushi bar is not one of these.
agreed. i forgot the golden rule of sushi bars: it's all about
community!
> > 19. Tips: The shokunin and rest of the staff are tipped separately must go to
> > the shokunin. Don't leave it on the bar. Fold the bills in a small packet
> > and hand them over to the chef over the counter, with your palm on top so the
> > bills aren't visible. Thank him as he palms the money in his hand.
> We've had un-ending discussion on this. I have never tipped directly,
> but on the tab, and have rarely ever seen the chef and wait-staff
> tipped separately. I have seen the chef tipped directly and seen the
> money then gathered by or handed to the waitperson as the patron
> leaves.
>
> I would never hand a sushi chef money directly. I've seen it all of
> about 4 or 5 times in my life and it always looks awkward. But the main
> thing is I don't want money--passed through a jillion hands--put into
> the hands of the guy working my fish. He'll just have to wash his
> hands again. For this reason, don't shake his hand either.
when in Japan, do as the Japanese do. i've seen this done and asked
about it to my Japanese friends and they insist that this is the correct
protocol for two reasons:
1. you're tipping the skill of the chef, attained after many year of
constant practice, and you recognize him as "special".
2. if the shokunin (or ita-san [learned that one last night when
talking to him directly] or itamae) took really good care of
you, he should get the lion share of the tip, i.e. no pooling.
one thing that i didn't mention in the HOWTO is one of my uber rules:
preferably, your sushi chef is Japanese. there are very good chefs from
other nationalities, but the subtlety of some of the traditions (like how
and why you tip a certain way) is lost in them. i didn't mention it
because i was already getting hell from some people because of the
assumption that the chef is male. there are exceptions to this. my
friend James from Arai/NYC is Korean and Sizuko/Moscow is a girl. i had
very good sushi made by a mexican chef at the Nikko hotel Mexico City
last wk. i never ever had outstanding sushi prepared by a westerner,
though. only a Japanese sushi chef, preferably one that learned how to
make sushi through apprenticeship rather than at the culinari academy,
gets the tip ritual right away. as you say, people always get funny when
money discussions are involved. i think the best advise is to do what
you feel comfortable with in your locale.
i believe that, if you are eating sushi at a 100% Japanese sushi bar, and
if you stick to the Japanese traditions, you'll be recognized as someone
who understands and respects them (i'm a total gaijin who gets a good rap
in many establishments in SF Japan Town) and this leads to a more
satisfying experience.
ok -- enough nitpicking :)
> I don't have time for more but will continue later. I would only
> counsel that the document could easily be a third the size. Most of
> the info is quite applicable and true, for most who would need or could
> use such a document there is hardly any point in giving them this
> abundance of information, as it's too much to remember. You might
> consider a doc for total beginners, ("How to avoid looking like an
> idiot") and one for those who've removed the training wheels ("How to
> find the secret treasurers"). In either case it could be whittled to a
> thrid the word count.
i will work on reducing the word count and making the document more
succint.
as i said before, the document is written based on the model of a UNIX
manual. a tradition in that world is to list the names and/or email
addresses of the contributors who made the document revisions. would you
care to be included in the contributor list for the next revision? how
would you like to be identified? send me an email with this information
if you don't want it broadcast all over the USENET.
happy sushi,
Predator
says...
> So where did you get your info?
much of it through a course i took in 1992 when i was slated to live in
Japan and had to learn the polite way of living in that culture. the
rest was a refinement process that took 10 years of really working at
enjoying the sushi experience.
also, i never stop asking questions. and i'll eat anything, the weirder
the better. in the establishments where i'm known, i point blank ask
questions to the chef, the owner and other staff as to exactly how would
something be done. i cross-referenced their answers with infos i got
from my many Japanese friends. a couple of things i looked up in my
Japanese school manuals.
cheers!
April
I found the info you provided for thoughtful and made for easy
reading. I'm a sushi novice and after reading your article, I realize
there is much more to experiance and learn.
Thank you for putting it together.
April
ghost <tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote in message news:<MPG.16a9797b2...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>...
Kory K
> In article <120120020851079991%222...@adelphia.net>, 222...@adelphia.net
> says...
>
> >> Why do you order Sho chiko bai hot?
>
> to evaporate any residual ethil alcohol left from the fermentation
> process. the guys from Takara (makers of this sake and with at least two
> restaurants in the SF Bay Area) recommend it hot.
I have a feeling that Sho Chiku Bai is making a sake that is expressly made for
drinking warm. I don't like the word hot 'cause I doubt that anyone would serve sake
that heated. If you want something hot, drink tea. Premium sakes are almost always
served slightly chilled. Like drinking a fine wine and champagne, if you drink it ice
cold the bouquet will not be as intended by the maker.
> > > 19. Tips: The shokunin and rest of the staff are tipped separately must go to
> > > the shokunin. Don't leave it on the bar. Fold the bills in a small packet
> > > and hand them over to the chef over the counter, with your palm on top so the
> > > bills aren't visible. Thank him as he palms the money in his hand.
>
> > We've had un-ending discussion on this. I have never tipped directly,
> > but on the tab, and have rarely ever seen the chef and wait-staff
> > tipped separately. I have seen the chef tipped directly and seen the
> > money then gathered by or handed to the waitperson as the patron
> > leaves.
> >
> > I would never hand a sushi chef money directly. I've seen it all of
> > about 4 or 5 times in my life and it always looks awkward. But the main
> > thing is I don't want money--passed through a jillion hands--put into
> > the hands of the guy working my fish. He'll just have to wash his
> > hands again. For this reason, don't shake his hand either.
Exactly. Even if this is a very world wide custom nowadays you should never shake
hands with a sushi chef. A long deep bow is more courteous and fondly accepted by
sushi chefs.
> when in Japan, do as the Japanese do. i've seen this done and asked
> about it to my Japanese friends and they insist that this is the correct
> protocol for two reasons:
>
> 1. you're tipping the skill of the chef, attained after many year of
> constant practice, and you recognize him as "special".
>
> 2. if the shokunin (or ita-san [learned that one last night when
> talking to him directly] or itamae) took really good care of
> you, he should get the lion share of the tip, i.e. no pooling.
At most sushi bars I frequent in the US I don't know of any sushi chef that handles
money. Even at smaller, more intimate sushi restaurants the hostess will bring and
collect the check even when you are sitting at a sushi bar. Since I'm a regular at
most places I dine I always hand the tips to the hostess or manager separately and
designate how much is going to the sushi chef.
I've also seen people put money in the change plate for the chef and a seperate tray
for the wait help. Never put money atop the show case or anywhere that food goes.
It's very disrespectful to the establishment and to the customer coming to sit in the
seat after you. If you have one of those folders that the bill comes in I know that
the standard in the US is to have the money stick out a little to show your server
that you wish her to collect the bill. If you choose to do that, have the folder hang
off the table so the money doesn't touch it or hold it in your hand until your server
picks it up.
> > I don't have time for more but will continue later. I would only
> > counsel that the document could easily be a third the size. Most of
> > the info is quite applicable and true, for most who would need or could
> > use such a document there is hardly any point in giving them this
> > abundance of information, as it's too much to remember. You might
> > consider a doc for total beginners, ("How to avoid looking like an
> > idiot")
"Sushi for Dummies"? tm Sounds like a good one.
Kory
werewolf
> Greetings!
>
> I found the info you provided for thoughtful and made for easy
> reading. I'm a sushi novice and after reading your article, I realize
> there is much more to experiance and learn.
>
> Thank you for putting it together.
>
> April
>
>
Yes, that was a really excellent treatise on sushi eating.
ww
Predator
coco...@webtv.net says...
> Greetings!
>
> I found the info you provided for thoughtful and made for easy
> reading. I'm a sushi novice and after reading your article, I realize
> there is much more to experiance and learn.
>
> Thank you for putting it together.
you're very welcome :)
i'm getting all kinds of good feedback from the readers of this forum.
while we're arguing a lot about when and how and who to tip, i think
everything else is accurate.
happy sushi outings and check the page frequently! i'll probably update
it shortly with updated infos after all the excellent feedback i'm
getting here.
cheers!
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> > > 19. Tips: The shokunin and rest of the staff are tipped
> > > separately must go to the shokunin. Don't leave it on the bar.
> > > Fold the bills in a small packet and hand them over to the chef
> > > over the counter, with your palm on top so the bills aren't
> > > visible. Thank him as he palms the money in his hand.
>
> > We've had un-ending discussion on this. I have never tipped
> > directly, but on the tab, and have rarely ever seen the chef and
> > wait-staff tipped separately. I have seen the chef tipped directly
> > and seen the money then gathered by or handed to the waitperson as
> > the patron leaves.
> >
> > I would never hand a sushi chef money directly. I've seen it all of
> > about 4 or 5 times in my life and it always looks awkward. But the
> > main thing is I don't want money--passed through a jillion
> > hands--put into the hands of the guy working my fish. He'll just
> > have to wash his hands again. For this reason, don't shake his hand
> > either.
>
> when in Japan, do as the Japanese do. i've seen this done and asked
> about it to my Japanese friends and they insist that this is the
> correct protocol for two reasons:
As I said we've discussed this endlessly. I will still continue to
correct anyone about the process which just follows simple logic. Most
of your candidate audience will eat it outside Japan not in the native
land. In the native land I also never saw this kind of tipping. Lastly
I'll defer to the myriad instruction I myself have rec'd from others
that it's inappropriate.
Another though. Note the sushi-chef's name, and refer to him with the
suffix san. It isn't much, but it seems to mean a lot.
> one thing that i didn't mention in the HOWTO is one of my uber rules:
> preferably, your sushi chef is Japanese.
Excellent advice. For me it isn't preferable, it is mandatory. I just
lose to much ancillary culture (words, translations, descriptions,
chatter about where in Japan they are from, what's going on back home,
et al). This isn't food, admittedly, but it's part of the gestalt for
me.
> would you care to be included in the contributor list for the next
> revision?
Not until my contribution is something more substantive. Put me in the
nameless kvetcher list...
Dan Logcher
> In article <3C40778E...@mediaone.net>, dlogcher*xspam*@mediaone.net
> says...
> > So where did you get your info?
>
> much of it through a course i took in 1992 when i was slated to live in
> Japan and had to learn the polite way of living in that culture. the
> rest was a refinement process that took 10 years of really working at
> enjoying the sushi experience.
I took a sushi course, but it was prep only and not much on the
proper ways of eat etc.
> also, i never stop asking questions. and i'll eat anything, the weirder
> the better. in the establishments where i'm known, i point blank ask
> questions to the chef, the owner and other staff as to exactly how would
> something be done. i cross-referenced their answers with infos i got
> from my many Japanese friends. a couple of things i looked up in my
> Japanese school manuals.
I'm the same way. I always ask questions about what is being prepared
for me. I will also eat anything, wierder the better.
--
Dan
calt...@earthlink.net
about the bit about "do as the Japanese do". Tipping is not a
Japanese custom. (I was born and raised in Japan.) So is yet another
thing the Japanese have adopted from the States?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 04:36:46 GMT, Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
Nazodesu
<dlogcher*xspam*@mediaone.net> wrote:
> I always ask questions about what is being prepared for me. I will
> also eat anything, wierder the better.
I think this is key to getting some good food and to getting the
confidence of the sushi chef. I also work this way. On the other hand,
despite how "wierd" something was I've rarely had anything that really
put me off that much, other than with issues of freshness and such.
Admittedly if I'm with someone new I say up front I don't like natto or
grated yamaimo, but otherwise everything else is fine.
Nazodesu
<calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Whereas it's important to tip in restaurants in America, I'm wondering
> about the bit about "do as the Japanese do". Tipping is not a
> Japanese custom. (I was born and raised in Japan.) So is yet another
> thing the Japanese have adopted from the States?
I'm not sure that it is. The point here is that someone told someone
that this is the way they do it in Japan. I'm not sure that this is
true; and if it is to which circumstances it could truly be applied. So
from where it was not adopted would be moot.
When in Japan last October I was accutely aware of those opportunities
when I might be able to tip and was thwarted at one and all. I was
informed that I could tip a porter in a hotel for example. Nobody told
the porter, and he gently declined.
Allison
allisoba
"ghost" <tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote in message
news:MPG.16a9797b2...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
Predator
the tipping section of the Sushi Eating HOWTO caused quite a stir. that
leads me to think that most of everything else is accurate (yeah!) and
that i better head to Japan Town and figure out (again) what would be the
correct protocol. i guess i'll just have to go eat more sushi...
the tipping discussion is beginning to sound like the arguments raising
when speculating how many angels fit on a pinhead...
someone said that in Japan you don't even tip; agreed, very few places
have picked up the custom. ditto for Europe (except for a few countries
like Russia) where tipping is non-existent, or where you just live small
change for the food server.
at any rate, i believe the tipping section applies to the US sushi bars
tended by Japanese chefs. this section will definitely get reworked.
thanks to all for your great feedback (hi allisoba!) and keep it coming!
i'll work on an update very soon.
David Lutjen
news:130120020915534654%222...@adelphia.net...
> In article <3c41addf...@news.earthlink.net>,
> <calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Whereas it's important to tip in restaurants in America, I'm wondering
> > about the bit about "do as the Japanese do". Tipping is not a
> > Japanese custom. (I was born and raised in Japan.) So is yet another
> > thing the Japanese have adopted from the States?
>
> I'm not sure that it is. The point here is that someone told someone
> that this is the way they do it in Japan. I'm not sure that this is
> true; and if it is to which circumstances it could truly be applied. So
> from where it was not adopted would be moot.
Every table in every restaurant in Japan is a "no tipping" table. There are
situations where a tip is nice gesture but completely unrelated to sushi.
Dave
> could you please have a look and provide your feedback?
I think your article is good, however I take exceptions to a few of your
comments:
1) <Nobu is arguably the best sushi chef in the world, and has opened a
chain of small but high-quality> I find this comment interesting in many
aspects. A few lines later you instruct not to go to chain restaurants.
In addition, I have eaten this guy¹s sushi, and its imaginative to say the
least, and not to my particular taste. However that is neither here nor
there. Later in the article you state <People who know how to eat sushi
don't order California rolls. They're for wimps who can't handle raw
fish. Rule of thumb: if it has mayonnaise or tomatoes, or if it's cooked
and lacks an exotic name like ankimo, it's not real sushi. > Well if one
follows that course of thought, almost nothing Nobu makes will qualify as
sushi. With all the stuff this guy adds to untraditional sushi, I am lost
on all of your advice stated above.
2) <The morsels of fish atop nigiri pieces are so large that you can
barely see the rice underneath (believe it or not, some people think that
the sushi place is good because you get big pieces of fish)> I have been
eating sushi for approximately 30 years. I believe at this point I can
figure what is good and bad in quality. We go to one place in particular
here in Los Angeles, and these guys cut fish so generously you really
cannot order too many things unless you share. At the same time, the
quality of the fish they serve is hard to match. BTW, this place is not
cheap!
3) Back to <People who know how to eat sushi don't order California
rolls. They're for wimps who can't handle raw fish.> If you go to Japan
and eat sushi, you know that California Rolls are even popular there. It
does not happen to be something I order often, but I do consider it sushi
nonetheless. I do not believe all sushi has to be traditional in order to
qualify as good, but I do prefer traditional style. Again, that is
neither here nor there.
4) <You must prepare some soy sauce for dipping your sushi; this is done
by dabbing a bit of wasabi (the bright green dough on your plate) onto a
small saucer provided to you next to your bigger plate. Add some soy
sauce for dipping.> For sashimi this works, for sushi I believe the chef
applies what he believes is the correct amount of wasabi to the sushi, you
should only use soy.
I think your article is very informative and can help neophytes. These
are just my observations and opinions.
--
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish,
and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
calt...@earthlink.net
I was back in Japan not too long ago and I can confirm that you do
*not* place wasabi in your soy sauce.
If the itamae-san is any good, the statement about the amount of
wasabi being correct applies.
Ken Blake
news:3c42285d...@news.earthlink.net...
> >In article <MPG.16a9797b2...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net>,
ghost
> ><tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> >
> >
> >4) <You must prepare some soy sauce for dipping your sushi;
this is done
> >by dabbing a bit of wasabi (the bright green dough on your
plate) onto a
> >small saucer provided to you next to your bigger plate. Add
some soy
> >sauce for dipping.> For sashimi this works, for sushi I
believe the chef
> >applies what he believes is the correct amount of wasabi to
the sushi, you
> >should only use soy.
> >
>
> I was back in Japan not too long ago and I can confirm that you
do
> *not* place wasabi in your soy sauce.
>
> If the itamae-san is any good, the statement about the amount
of
> wasabi being correct applies.
If you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce, why does the
itamae-san put wasabi on your plate?
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
Nazodesu
Dave <mo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> 4) <You must prepare some soy sauce for dipping your sushi; this is done
> by dabbing a bit of wasabi (the bright green dough on your plate) onto a
> small saucer provided to you next to your bigger plate. Add some soy
> sauce for dipping. For sashimi this works, for sushi I believe the chef
> applies what he believes is the correct amount of wasabi to the sushi, you
> should only use soy.
Along these lines some other things should be noted. Some times sushi
comes already "dressed". Frequently this is the case with albacore
sushi; it is not placed on the geta but on a separate dish. I see this
with salmon too but not as consistently. Anyway they will already
dress this with greenery and roe and ponzu or some such. These you do
not dip.
Also there are other options. As my palatte has matured I find myself
using far less wasabi and far less shoyu. Anymore I rarely put wasabi
in the dish, or if I do I prefer a sloped dish, and put a little wasabi
at the side so I can "grade" the heat.
In any case in the US freqentuly folks put wasabi in their shoyu as a
matter of course. Again, it's an option.
With many things sashimi now I use lemon. With scallop (hotegai) I
always prefer just a little lemon. The same with many white fishes.
These I do not dunk in shoyu, just a shpritz of lemon. This is no rule,
but it should be covered among the myriad options.
Nazodesu
<calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I was back in Japan not too long ago and I can confirm that you do
> *not* place wasabi in your soy sauce.
Certainly not unless you like a lot of wasabi. And you can have as
much as you like anywhere you go.
> If the itamae-san is any good, the statement about the amount of
> wasabi being correct applies.
It applies to his taste of course, and you can add more if you like
more anywhere you go.
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> at any rate, i believe the tipping section applies to the US sushi bars
> tended by Japanese chefs.
I've eaten at probably 100 sushi bars in California and half that many
on the east coast and midwest. I think the tip in these areas still
goes on the tab, not in a hand or on a counter.
But others can weigh in as they see fit.
Predator
mo...@mindspring.com says...
> I think your article is good, however I take exceptions to a few of your
> comments
thanks :) i appreciate your feedback.
> 1) <Nobu is arguably the best sushi chef in the world, and has opened a
> chain of small but high-quality> I find this comment interesting in many
> aspects. A few lines later you instruct not to go to chain restaurants.
> In addition, I have eaten this guy¹s sushi, and its imaginative to say the
> least, and not to my particular taste. However that is neither here nor
> there. Later in the article you state <People who know how to eat sushi
> don't order California rolls. They're for wimps who can't handle raw
> fish. Rule of thumb: if it has mayonnaise or tomatoes, or if it's cooked
> and lacks an exotic name like ankimo, it's not real sushi. > Well if one
> follows that course of thought, almost nothing Nobu makes will qualify as
> sushi. With all the stuff this guy adds to untraditional sushi, I am lost
> on all of your advice stated above.
"What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the student.
You must understand Tao before trascending structure." -- The Tao of
Programming.
Nobu understands what sushi is about and has the chutzpah to create
fantastic sushi that, while non-traditional, is still some of the best
you can find. my issue here is that some people confuse stuffing fish in
a roll or atop a rice ball and calling it sushi.
i don't think any sushi from Nobu's has mayonaisse of tomatoes, btw. and
yes, his lobster ceviche is great.
> 2) <The morsels of fish atop nigiri pieces are so large that you can
> barely see the rice underneath (believe it or not, some people think that
> the sushi place is good because you get big pieces of fish)> I have been
> eating sushi for approximately 30 years. I believe at this point I can
> figure what is good and bad in quality. We go to one place in particular
> here in Los Angeles, and these guys cut fish so generously you really
> cannot order too many things unless you share. At the same time, the
> quality of the fish they serve is hard to match. BTW, this place is not
> cheap!
i think we can find exceptions to every rule. the problem is that some
places want to substitute quantity with quality.
> 3) Back to <People who know how to eat sushi don't order California
> rolls. They're for wimps who can't handle raw fish.> If you go to Japan
> and eat sushi, you know that California Rolls are even popular there. It
> does not happen to be something I order often, but I do consider it sushi
> nonetheless. I do not believe all sushi has to be traditional in order to
> qualify as good, but I do prefer traditional style. Again, that is
> neither here nor there.
if memory doesn't fail me, they don't use mayonnaise in Japan for
California rolls. they do use avocados.
anyway, real men avoid California rolls. is like driving a Mazda Miata:
sure, the car is nice looking, but real men don't drive them ;)
(too bad if one of 'em reader's doesn't share my sensayuma)
> 4) <You must prepare some soy sauce for dipping your sushi; this is done
> by dabbing a bit of wasabi (the bright green dough on your plate) onto a
> small saucer provided to you next to your bigger plate. Add some soy
> sauce for dipping.> For sashimi this works, for sushi I believe the chef
> applies what he believes is the correct amount of wasabi to the sushi, you
> should only use soy.
thanks for the correction and you (and Nazodesu) are correct on that
point. will make the correction in the HOWTO.
> I think your article is very informative and can help neophytes. These
> are just my observations and opinions.
thank you; i'll make the corrections and let you guys know when they're
posted. probably next week. no, i won't want you to read the whole
thing all over again (though it will be shorter), i'll post a list of
corrections to this newsgroup.
cheers!
Trinker
I've seen places that have a tip jar of some sort on the counter.
Predator
says...
> I've eaten at probably 100 sushi bars in California and half that many
> on the east coast and midwest. I think the tip in these areas still
> goes on the tab, not in a hand or on a counter.
i live in san francisco and have eaten sushi up and down the state.
in places that i don't frequent i tip on the tab, and i purposely tip in
the credit card so i don't have to single anyone out.
i only follow the "tip ritual" when:
a) the sushi is particularly outstanding and
b) the shokunin goes out of his way to make me feel at home
according to my Japanese friends this afternoon, and because of the
difference in tipping between Japan and the US, *they follow the 'ritual'
i described in the HOWTO because 1) they want to acknowledge the chef's
good job and 2) they came up with this little ritual among the Japanese
community here in the Bay Area*.
i've seen several Japanese (including friends of mine from Nagasaki) do
this.
this is a question then for the Japanese and Japanese immigrants out
there among the visitors to this newsgroup (gaijins like me should have
no say): what is the correct style for tipping when you get
*outstanding* service?
thanks,
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> this is a question then for the Japanese and Japanese immigrants out
> there among the visitors to this newsgroup (gaijins like me should have
> no say): what is the correct style for tipping when you get
> *outstanding* service?
Well then what does it matter what any of us here in the US say or do,
if the final arbiter is what they say and do somewhere else?
calt...@earthlink.net
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
>
>anyway, real men avoid California rolls. is like driving a Mazda Miata:
>sure, the car is nice looking, but real men don't drive them ;)
>
>(too bad if one of 'em reader's doesn't share my sensayuma)
>
I agree in that I don't consider California rolls real sushi, but
making it a "real man" issue seems silly. As is the idea that cars
have anything to do with manliness. As far as I'm concerned, being a
man has little to do with this "real man" stuff, which was old when
the expression was in vogue thirty years ago.
calt...@earthlink.net
calt...@earthlink.net
discussing.
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:58:39 GMT, Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
calt...@earthlink.net
On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 20:23:03 -0800, Trinker <trinke...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
werewolf
I agree with Mr Nazodesu. I HATE tipping, and if it's gotta be so
esoteric and complicated as giving seperate tips to this or that, or
maitre d's, or car park dudes, or sushi chefs, and handing the money
over in a very special way so that the bill is concealed and my pinky
is extended or something, then, hey, I'd rather stay home.
ww
Nazodesu
<trinke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I've seen a tip jar probably 4-5 times. The only two that had one at
the sushi station (as opposed to the cash-register) the sushi-chef was
not Japanese. One Korean (Dallas), one Chinese (Chicago area). I have
no idea of the relevance of this.
Also, I didn't mean to say that of my "vast" experience, I had never
seen tipping; I have. I've seen direct tipping to the chef maybe 6-8
times. Probably 3-4 of those times the waitperson scurried over and
took the relay. I've also seen hand-shakes 2-3 times. All looked most
awkward.
Nazodesu
<calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I wouldn't call fried chicken sushi either, but that doesn't keep me
from enjoying it.
Nazodesu
<calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Beats me. Many places in Japan don't.
>
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:00:52 -0700, "Ken Blake"
> <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >If you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce, why does the
> >itamae-san put wasabi on your plate?
Name five!
Ken Blake
news:3c42e28b...@news.earthlink.net...
> Beats me. Many places in Japan don't.
True. But some do. And in the US, many, if not most, do.
My point is a simple one: if the itame-san puts it there, he's
inviting you to use it, and won't be offended if you do. Therfore
the "rule" that you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce is a
fake rule.
As far as I'm concerned, it's like salt in a French restaurant.
The chef adds the amount that he thinks is correct. If your taste
is different from his and you'd like more, there's a salt shaker
on the table to accomodate you. There's no offense in using it.
We don't all have to have identical taste in saltiness or in
spiciness.
Ken Blake
At least in the US, most do, in my experience.
Chills716
at the bar. At the end of the meal I left the waitress $1 tip and the chef a
larger one since I was a regular. The waitress followed us outside complaining
to me all she gets is 50% of the tip you leave the other 50% goes to the chef
in the back. The thing is all she did was fill our drinks! And this is an owned
and run by Japanese establishment
Stone
"A man against world peace simply because of all the lost jobs"
Nazodesu
<chil...@aol.com> wrote:
> I went to a sushi bar with a few friends, all of us ordering sushi, and
> sitting
> at the bar. At the end of the meal I left the waitress $1 tip and the chef a
> larger one since I was a regular. The waitress followed us outside complaining
> to me all she gets is 50% of the tip you leave the other 50% goes to the chef
> in the back. The thing is all she did was fill our drinks! And this is an
> owned
> and run by Japanese establishment
Lots of establishments have lots of ways of doing lots of things. I
try to avoid involving myself in management and bookkeeping by putting
the tip on the tab.
Nazodesu
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> My point is a simple one: if the itame-san puts it there, he's
> inviting you to use it, and won't be offended if you do. Therfore
> the "rule" that you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce is a
> fake rule.
Not to quibble but to expand:
"Itame" above should be "itamae", pronounced ee-tah-ma-eh or in usage
ee-tah-my. If the honorific "san" is the equivalent of saying
"Mister", then itamae-san (as I call a chef whose name I do not know),
is equivalent to saying Mr. Chef, which is apparently just fine with
them.
One can also shorten it to ita-san, with no apparent loss of esteem in
the process.
Saying "the itamae-san" would be equivalent to saying "The Mr. Chef".
That is, to make it honorific (with the "san") isn't necessary outside
the context of addressing the man directly or referring to a specific
chef. Thus "itamae-san at my favorite restaurant" or "the itamae at
any local restaurant".
For the japanese speakers out there, hontoo desu ka?
Nazodesu
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
Bad newsreader formatting. The "Name five" challenge goes to the
responde that "Many places in Japan don't" provide wasabi is not
provided.
n_cr...@spampacbell.net
> [ah] I
> try to avoid involving myself in management and bookkeeping by putting
> the tip on the tab.
Most of the time my 'bar bill' is half of my bill, so I tend to tip 20 to
25%, depending on overall quality, fun and service. If I'm paying by credit
card, I'll put an 8% tip on the bill (that's what the IRS assumes they got)
and the rest in cash. I don't leave a separate tip for itamae-san, although
I may buy him/them sake or beer along the way.
--
Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley www.boonchoo.com
"Giving violent criminals a government guarantee that their intended
victims are defenseless is bad public policy."
- John Ross, "Unintended Consequences"
Predator
chil...@aol.com says...
> I went to a sushi bar with a few friends, all of us ordering sushi, and sitting
> at the bar. At the end of the meal I left the waitress $1 tip and the chef a
> larger one since I was a regular. The waitress followed us outside complaining
> to me all she gets is 50% of the tip you leave the other 50% goes to the chef
> in the back. The thing is all she did was fill our drinks! And this is an owned
> and run by Japanese establishment
i heard that from two establishments i frequent in San Francisco, both
Japanese owned and managed. that's why i recommend leaving the tips
separately. becoming a regular eventually lets you catch a glimpse of
the inner workings of the restaurant.
i used to have a bussboy at one of the establishments who really took
excellent care of me: cleaned the bar promptly when it was my turn,
always made sure i had a full cup of green tea, etc. etc. he's the one
who told me about the whole tipping arrangement with the sushi bar; then
i noticed some Japanese patrons leaving the two separate tips and the
ceremony of passing the carefully folded bills to the chef, tipping the
waiters separately, etc.
cheers!
calt...@earthlink.net
approval for this. I guess you're not saying that "the itamae" has
any kind of honorific about it, so that's OK, too. I would call the
sushi chef itamae-san whether I know him/her or not.
This is not to make fun of anyone, because we all make slips in
spelling, but "itame-san" would mean something like "Mr. Saute".
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:37:23 GMT, Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
calt...@earthlink.net
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:32:13 GMT, Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
calt...@earthlink.net
like your response if there is any implication that California rolls
are not really sushi.
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:32:13 GMT, Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
>In article <3c42e1dc...@news.earthlink.net>,
Predator
first, because I think this reply summarizes a lot of insightful
thinking:
In article <u462jii...@corp.supernews.com>,
kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com says...
> As far as I'm concerned, it's like salt in a French restaurant.
> The chef adds the amount that he thinks is correct. If your taste
> is different from his and you'd like more, there's a salt shaker
> on the table to accomodate you. There's no offense in using it.
> We don't all have to have identical taste in saltiness or in
> spiciness.
you're right on with this comment, Ken. kampai! to you :)
it seems like this thread developed two branches that caused much
contention about two small points in the Sushi Eating HOWTO: tipping and
wasabi usage.
the HOWTO was written in the spirit of a UNIX HOWTO guide, I.e. a concise
guide that will tell you how to accomplish something correctly and with a
minimum of training. if you want to learn more about a topic, either you
go dig into the task's specific documentation, experiment with the system
or (if you're trying to become the expert on the matter) read the source
code.
this thread carries a lot of messages with excellent information that
will help fine-tune the Sushi Eating HOWTO when I have a chance to review
it toward the end of the wk. there is also a lot of quibbling from guys
who probably have more experience than me at the sushi bar (or who think
they do) or in Japan. either way, remember the Tao:
"What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the student.
You must understand Tao before transcending structure."
if you are a Sushi Master you know that the whole point of sushi is
sharing a good time with your friends in a comfortable environment.
transcend structure. do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable.
I believe that, overall, the information in the HOWTO is accurate. let
me know (other than tipping, California rolls, and wasabi ::wink::) if
there is anything else that you don't agree with and *why* so I can
reflect it on the document. yes, you will definitely be mentioned as a
contributor when I update the document. no, the fact that you've done
the same thing for 10 years and it's different than what I presented in
the HOWTO is not enough. I would like to understand *why* what you
suggest is accurate because (1) i'll learn something new and (2) that
information will one day help me win the final Jeopardy round. I had
enough dogma for two lifetimes when I went through Catholic church.
we all have better (or quirkier) ways of doing things, but the target
audience for the HOWTO, I.e. the guys who seldom visit, or have never
been before, or were just recently introduced to a sushi bar may find it
useful. even the die-hards who eat sushi every day may find a good
nugget of knowledge in it that they didn't have before (like i've found
in reading this newsgroup). the HOWTO may help the newbies avoid
behaviour that may offend the sushi chef or the establishment or
(horror!) it may save them some personal embarrassment. there are
sections in the HOWTO specific for Sushi Masters, dealing with fugu, uni,
hebo, amaebi, odori, inago, etc. did you know the right way to eat fugu?
can you suggest something that wasn't quoted in the HOWTO and that you'd
experienced before? no, California rolls Your Way doesn't count as
exotic.
as for the tipping and the wasabi threads:
1. I will review the tipping method described in the HOWTO with extensive
input from my Japanese and Japanese-immigrant friends in addition to
the comments in this newsgroup thread. for the time being, though, I
stick to my description of the tipping process because as of today's
lunch (I donated blood and required a "hearty meal"; my favourite
sushi bar happens to be on the way back...) I found it not
embarrassing
or rude in any way. an older Japanese lady sitting next to me at the
bar followed exactly the same protocol that I described. besides,
I love controversy.
2. the HOWTO states "The right ratio of wasabi to soy sauce is up
to you". that ranges from none at all to lots of it (i'm known as
wasabi-san in some dark corners of SF Japan Town and NYC; guess
why). the point of that section of the HOWTO was to prevent people
from doing what someone I know did: she exclaimed "guacamole!"
and popped the whole thing in her mouth before I could warn her.
it was pretty funny, yeah :). knowing what to do with the
"guacamole", particularly not popping the whole mound in your
mouth, may be useful information for a newbie. have you noticed how
some Japanese sushi chefs don't put wasabi in the nigirisushi when
they run into a new face at the bar?
3. real Sushi Masters don't eat California rolls. eating them is like
eating Mexican food with ketchup, chasing your cognac with hot
cocoa, eating Thai food with chopsticks, or men driving Mazda
Miatas*. it's just unnatural.
*i'm guilty having done more than one of these. I asked around, though,
what was the proper way to do each; right, monsieurs Minodier and Dumois?
yes, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder; who doesn't have an ego
anyway?
and yes, I have a weird Sensayuma.
Terry Egan
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote concerning the SUSHI HOWTO:
< bunch o'stuff elided >
>3. real Sushi Masters don't eat California rolls. eating them is like
> eating Mexican food with ketchup, chasing your cognac with hot
> cocoa, eating Thai food with chopsticks, or men driving Mazda
> Miatas*. it's just unnatural.
>
>*i'm guilty having done more than one of these. ...
>
I'm guilty of a few of these too, but I was unaware that
eating Pad thai or Angel WIngs w/chopsticks was unnatural. Could you
explain? (Chasing cognac w/cocoa? Shudder...)
>yes, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder; who doesn't have an ego
>anyway?
>
>and yes, I have a weird Sensayuma.
All the best have what could be termed 'a weird Sensayuma';
only the ig^w, stu^w, uneducated hoipolloi aren't at least curious.
>
>cheers!
>
Gombei!
-
Terry Egan
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm
not sure about the universe. " --Albert Einstein
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> i used to have a bussboy at one of the establishments who really took
> excellent care of me: cleaned the bar promptly when it was my turn,
> always made sure i had a full cup of green tea, etc. etc. he's the one
> who told me about the whole tipping arrangement with the sushi bar; then
> i noticed some Japanese patrons leaving the two separate tips and the
> ceremony of passing the carefully folded bills to the chef, tipping the
> waiters separately, etc.
As you know I disagree with this as a default tipping method--but
you're incidentally pointing out one of the key elementes in maximum
sushi-bar enjoyment: play the cards that are on the table!
If someone wises you to how THIS joint works relative to tipping,
smoking, dancing or any other damn thing--that's the reality. No other
need exist.
Trinker
Nazodesu wrote:
> Saying "the itamae-san" would be equivalent to saying "The Mr. Chef".
> That is, to make it honorific (with the "san") isn't necessary outside
> the context of addressing the man directly or referring to a specific
> chef. Thus "itamae-san at my favorite restaurant" or "the itamae at
> any local restaurant".
Because it's not an actual case of addressing the person in question
with "the itamae-san", I would tend to write it as "the itamae-san".
I also write "the friendly omawari-san..." I do this so that English
speakers remain aware that the proper way to use the title is *with*
the -san, because I find that if I don't leave it in, they will
inevitably use the title bare, which is worse. And "itamae-san"
sounds too much to English speakers like an actual surname.
> For the japanese speakers out there, hontoo desu ka?
(spelling nitpick -- I'm sure you mean "honto".)
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> it seems like this thread developed two branches that caused much
> contention about two small points in the Sushi Eating HOWTO: tipping
> and wasabi usage.
If you google this group you'll find that quite possibly most of the
chatter has been on these two "small" topics. There are some other
aspects involving etiquette that also get disproportionate amounts of
time which could be better spent discussing dishes, but these two get
the lion's share of wasted energy. Does it warrant it? Hell no. Go
figure.
> either way, remember the Tao:
>
> "What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the
> student. You must understand Tao before transcending structure."
Well, as this discussion has pointed out, one must also be able to
differentiate between master and student. The HOWTo is aimed at one,
and by default intends to act as the other, oh wise one.
> if you are a Sushi Master you know that the whole point of sushi is
> sharing a good time with your friends in a comfortable environment.
> transcend structure. do whatever makes you feel the most
> comfortable.
True, as stated many times. I guess there are some people, I'm among
them, that feel that two general concepts are to be noted within this
approach:
Gauchness is to be avoided. When demonstrated by gaijin it drags us all
down, and can be embarrassing. And the good time *I* might have is
lessened by people who don't give a good goddam about any rules and
make folks uncomfortable. How important is this? I don't know.
Fun and food are to be maximized, if you're knotting your napkin in
anguish because over adherence to rules clearly you're following the
wrong rules. How important is this? Nothing is more important.
> I believe that, overall, the information in the HOWTO is accurate.
> let me know (other than tipping, California rolls, and wasabi
> ::wink::) if there is anything else that you don't agree with and
> *why* so I can reflect it on the document.
In all candor--and I think this is important--you should point out that
just these issues are points of distinction in philosophy. If everybody
agrees on something it's pretty easy to present. But if there is
adamant exception taken to an issue or two, as in these cases, I
wouldn't think you should blithly disregard the fact that it is a
matter of contention. I think a newbie should know that.
> I would like to understand *why* what you suggest is accurate because
> (1) i'll learn something new and (2) that information will one day
> help me win the final Jeopardy round. I had enough dogma for two
> lifetimes when I went through Catholic church.
A perfect example of why you shouldn't be selecting from the
viewpoints, but offering them for consideration. I haven't had a chance
to get back to your page, but as an example there is no need to say
that one MUST use hands or chopsticks with sushi. Both are fine. In
either case you shouldn't dunk the rice, but the fish.
> 1. I will review the tipping method described in the HOWTO with
> extensive
input from my Japanese and Japanese-immigrant friends in addition to
the comments in this newsgroup thread.
If, with or without the counsel of "experts" or sushi masters, you
decided to present it to them as if there were not disagreement it
would be not be helpful to your intent.
> have you noticed how some Japanese sushi chefs don't put wasabi in
> the nigirisushi when they run into a new face at the bar?
Never.
> 3. real Sushi Masters don't eat California rolls.
Preposterous of course. One should eat what they like without worry
about their rating in the competition. When did this become a
hierarchical social standing?!
Sometimes I don't WANT a roll with fish in it. I usually order a
vegetable roll. Or tell him I want a roll with ume in it and see what
else he adds. But there's nothing wrong with crab and avocado. I
suppose a soft-shell crab roll should be down-classed to "training
wheels" status too, huh? It's not really that much different is it? I
mean the "black mark" on the California roll is that it's "safe" right?
But I get the basic point that you're making here: there is a school of
thought that accords "class" and "cool" and "hip" to various otherwise
innocuous aspects like California rolls. A lot of people like them
(what the hell's not to like?!), and they allow them to work through
the mine field of scary foods early on.
If your document purports to rid stones from the pathway of neophytes I
certainly wouldn't quibble about California rolls except for one
reason: there's too much of it. Better to get two handrolls of
something you never heard of, than any large roll of a known
ingredient.
Nazodesu
<trinke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Saying "the itamae-san" would be equivalent to saying "The Mr.
> > Chef". That is, to make it honorific (with the "san") isn't
> > necessary outside the context of addressing the man directly or
> > referring to a specific chef. Thus "itamae-san at my favorite
> > restaurant" or "the itamae at any local restaurant".
>
> I do this so that English speakers remain aware that the proper way
> to use the title is *with* the -san, because I find that if I don't
> leave it in, they will inevitably use the title bare, which is worse.
> And "itamae-san" sounds too much to English speakers like an actual
> surname.
Excellent rationale.
> > For the japanese speakers out there, hontoo desu ka?
>
> (spelling nitpick -- I'm sure you mean "honto".)
I meant "truth". I'm looking at a dictionary (Merriam-Webster
Japanese-English) and it's spelled hontoo in romaji if one does not use
special characters. But if I could I'd use the "elongator" symbol over
the final "o". Since I can't I stayed true to the pronunciation. Which
is four units of the syllabary: ho-n-to-u.
Are we technically mired yet, Trinker-san? :-)
Nazodesu
<te...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> I'm guilty of a few of these too, but I was unaware that eating Pad
> thai or Angel WIngs w/chopsticks was unnatural. Could you explain?
> (Chasing cognac w/cocoa? Shudder...)
They just use forks in Thailand I guess, not chopsticks. Certainly they
use forks in their UnitedStatesian restaurants. I've always found it
curious and whenever I'm eating thai food I feel a little
uncomfortable. All that rice and no chopsticks!
Predator
says...
> Preposterous of course. One should eat what they like without worry
> about their rating in the competition. When did this become a
> hierarchical social standing?!
oh, it's not a hierarchy. i was actually going to write "real men don't
eat California rolls" but then i realized that many women *love* sushi.
it's so hard to please everyone...
have you watched David Letterman recently? my stance on California rolls
is like his take on Oprah Winfrey.
one (i really hope) final note.
i think California rolls are like tandem skydiving (i.e. when you skydive
as a passenger attached by a harness to a professional skydiver). yes,
you rode on the plane. yes, you jumped. but you didn't really need to
understand what was going on, how to use the equipment, how to judge the
winds on the ground, etc. only if you do AFF or static lines do you
fully understand what skydiving is all about. skydivers are the only
people who know why birds sing because we're the only ones who know what
flying feels like (skydiving cliche no. 1); and if you call riding a
plane flying, you must call riding a boat swimming (cliche no. 2).
[yes, BASE jumps count; this is about free falling and opening a
parachute or just being a passenger. whether you jumped out of an
airplane or off a building isn't the point. it's like arguing about
whether dynamite roll is better as makisushi or as temaki. besides,
wouldn't it be weird if we had Yet Another Thread on the fine points of
BASE jumping in this newsgroup?]
Exercise:
1. read the following paragraph:
i've never done a tandem jump. my first skydive was an AFF level 1 in
1994. i managed to keep on jumping worldwide and almost every weekend
since. i recommend tandem jumps for people like my 64-year-old Mum. she
wants the experience but didn't necessarily want to become a jumper. and
she had a blast! she now wants to become a skydiver, but that's another
story. if you are serious about becoming a skydiver you learn how and
leave the tandem jumps behind.
2. substitute "sushi", "eating sushi" for "skydiving", "skydive" and
"jumper" in the previous sentences and "California roll" for
"tandem jump".
3. read the paragraph again.
I CONFESS! the first time i ate sushi was in July of 1988. i didn't
really begin to learn in earnest about manners, etc. until 1993 so i had
plenty of time to screw up. i ate my share of California rolls during
those five years because i liked the way tobiko popped in my mouth.
loved the crab. loved the avocado. the mayonnaise always seemed out of
place, though. one day i wound up having a Japanese culture course, two
sushi outings with my teachers, yada yada yada, and then i understood Tao
and why it isn't in the California roll.
i hope we aren't taking ourselves too seriously here. i know i'm not :)
flame away if you think i am; i can take it.
Ken Blake
> In article <o0u64ucrllntd0onv...@4ax.com>, Terry
Egan
> <te...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm guilty of a few of these too, but I was unaware that
eating Pad
> > thai or Angel WIngs w/chopsticks was unnatural. Could you
explain?
> > (Chasing cognac w/cocoa? Shudder...)
>
> They just use forks in Thailand I guess, not chopsticks.
Spoons and forks together actually. You eat with the spoon, and
use the fork in your left hand to push the food onto the spoon.
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup
Ken Blake
OK. Thanks for the clarification.
Trinker
Just as a side note, I think it's ridiculous to single out
California rolls (which, when made without mayo, fall into
the "unusual but not outside of the usual Japanese palate"
category, IMO), and not some of the more ridiculous things
like spicy rolls, rolls with cream cheese, etc.
I suspect this is one of those "reformed [ ]" things, where
you feel a need to repent for your years of California roll
eating.
Trinker
Ken Blake wrote:
> > They just use forks in Thailand I guess, not chopsticks.
>
> Spoons and forks together actually. You eat with the spoon, and
> use the fork in your left hand to push the food onto the spoon.
...but not necessarily when eating long noodles.
Trinker
Nazodesu wrote:
>
> In article <3C438234...@yahoo.com>, Trinker
> <trinke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > For the japanese speakers out there, hontoo desu ka?
> >
> > (spelling nitpick -- I'm sure you mean "honto".)
>
> I meant "truth". I'm looking at a dictionary (Merriam-Webster
> Japanese-English) and it's spelled hontoo in romaji if one does not use
> special characters.
Well, with *certain* romanization systems. My apologies, it just
looked so weird to me that I didn't stop to think about why you'd
done it that way. It looked to me like "ho n to o".
glenn tsunekawa
"Ken Blake" <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> <calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Beats me. Many places in Japan don't.
> True. But some do. And in the US, many, if not most, do.
I have *never* been to a sushi restaurant in Japan where extra wasabi is
provided by the itamae. Then again, I haven't been to all of them. Yet.
:-)
A mound of wasabi is always provided with sashimi, but not sushi.
glenn
A.K.
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
>Exercise:
<snip>
>
>3. read the paragraph again.
On re-reading I see that your attitude towards sky diving is as
eletist and silly as your attitude towards food.
Not that I have every sky dived. I find the idea of jumping out of a
perfectly good airplane frightening and unnecesary.
But what the hell is up with this "sushi master" business. No one
calls themselves a "french fries" master because they snob McDonalds
and eat exclusive belgian fries from fancy-pants belgian fries places.
Sushi is food. One eats it because it's good. One eats it for fun.
One tests out new flavors because it's exciting to try new food.
"Sushi master" implies some kind of special skill. Terms like that, I
think, should be reserved for people who make the sushi. Not for
people who just like to eat the stuff.
>I CONFESS! the first time i ate sushi was in July of 1988. i didn't
>really begin to learn in earnest about manners, etc. until 1993 so i had
>plenty of time to screw up. i ate my share of California rolls during
>those five years because i liked the way tobiko popped in my mouth.
>loved the crab. loved the avocado. the mayonnaise always seemed out of
>place, though. one day i wound up having a Japanese culture course, two
>sushi outings with my teachers, yada yada yada, and then i understood Tao
>and why it isn't in the California roll.
That's pretty pretentious of you. "Those who speak do not know. Those
who know do not speak". If you understood the Tao you'd never talk
about it. And the Tao isn't Japanese anyway.
>i hope we aren't taking ourselves too seriously here. i know i'm not :)
>flame away if you think i am; i can take it.
You do seem to be taking yourself way too seriously. Maybe something
of your intended humor is lost, but you just come across as a silly
sushi snob. The point is to eat things one likes. If that's california
rolls, than what the hell is wrong with that? How is it a "mistake" to
eat something that tastes good?
Tempura was brought to Japan by the Portugese. Does this make tempura
an inauthentic Japanese food?
Anyway, I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, so I'll just
stop.
}..{
Agnieszka
Predator
> I suspect this is one of those "reformed [ ]" things, where
> you feel a need to repent for your years of California roll
> eating.
it is indeed. i just hope the Universe has in it to forgive my past lack
of awareness... that's why i started my pilgrimage to bring people back
from the Dark Side and enjoy pure, uncorrupted sushi...
Predator
> On re-reading I see that your attitude towards sky diving is as
> eletist and silly as your attitude towards food.
some people cannot recognize sarcasm when they see it.
repeat after me: Eugene (Predator or pr3d4t0r or wasabi-san or whatever
you want to call me) is just making fun of the guys (including
himself) who began taking this thing too seriously to begin with.
> Not that I have every sky dived. I find the idea of jumping
> out of a perfectly good airplane frightening and unnecesary.
yeah, that's how some people feel about eating grasshoppers and live
lobsters too. don't let me get started about eating dogs in Thailand...
though they're yummy. and durian... yummy too if you're into that kind
of thing.
can't we all just get along? relax. have fun. the whole "California
roll debate" was funny to begin with.
if you'd read all the other postings you'd realized by now that the
"Sushi Master" thing was also a joke. like the bit about Mazda Miata's
and hot cocoa chasers for cognac.
btw: California rolls still suck.
calt...@earthlink.net
gross.
To answer another post, no, it's not coolness. I don't do cool and
real man. It's just not sushi. As someone pointed out, it's like
Mexican with ketchup, etc.
While I don't care what anyone else eats and enjoys, I take exception
to placing these in the same category as traditional sushi.
...along with the ritual I have een many perform - ordering gobs of
sushi (mostly things like Bronco Rolls - don't ask) and scarfing them
down. (And then they complain that sushi is expensive.)
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:39:00 -0800, Trinker <trinke...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Dave
Hey, are worms on the menu????????? I just made statement on the wasabi,
as I was commenting on your web page, nothing is written in stone. Add
salt, add pepper, add saltpeter if you will. Hell on some rolls, I will
take the wasabi and just put it on the damned roll!
Eat California rolls till they are coming out of your ears! I go to a
place that makes them so well, you think you have died and gone to heaven.
Regarding Nobu, you are not alone in thinking he is a Godsend. If you
were, he would not have those places all over the Earth! Just not my
taste. Who cares about my taste?????????? lol
I just tried to comment on your page, per your request.
Cheers!
Dave
--
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish,
and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
Predator
In article <moi2-14010...@user-2iniv3h.dialup.mindspring.com>,
mo...@mindspring.com says...
> Well I see I opened up a wholeeeeeeeeeeeeee can o worms. Yihaaaaaaaa!
> Hey, are worms on the menu????????? I just made statement on the wasabi,
> as I was commenting on your web page, nothing is written in stone. Add
> salt, add pepper, add saltpeter if you will. Hell on some rolls, I will
> take the wasabi and just put it on the damned roll!
indeed. if you're into worms, you may want to try chinicuiles, a cactus
worm eaten in Mexico. my girlfriend from the Czech Republic just tried
them in Querétaro on 29.Dec.2001. She liked them, along with escamoles
or red ant caviar.
mind you, this is not food that you find at your local taquería. both of
these delicacies are in the $20/serving range; the worms are abundant
(you get a whole salad plateful) but the caviar is barely enough for a
couple of small tacos. both are served with a side of guacamole and corn
tortillas. you should also get at least two different salsas for
dressing them.
> Eat California rolls till they are coming out of your ears! I go to a
> place that makes them so well, you think you have died and gone to heaven.
let me know the place if it's somewhere in SF, LA/BH/Orange, San Diego
California, Chicago or NYC (my usual places) and i'll give them a try :)
email those infos to me if you want. after all, we don't want everyone
else on this newsgroup to know that i'd be eating that...
(let me know anyway if it's elsewhere. i might one day wind up there as
well)
> Regarding Nobu, you are not alone in thinking he is a Godsend. If you
> were, he would not have those places all over the Earth! Just not my
> taste. Who cares about my taste?????????? lol
i care now. you sound like a cool guy :)
Nobu's restaurants are kool and they make also *awesome* sushi if you
warn your itamae that you want the traditional stuff. at BH/La Cienega
ask to be seated at the sushi bar; find Katsu, and let him get creative
on you. he'll come up with great traditional sushi and not too many
Nobu-isms if you don't want them. try his scallops if they're in season.
> I just tried to comment on your page, per your request.
that was the whole point of the posting. i appreciate your comments *a
lot*. i will have a hell of a time winnowing the two or three comments
that pertain the HOWTO from the 65+ others where we were discussing the
Tao of sushi. i'll let you know when the HOWTO is updated.
cheers and have fun!
A.K.
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
>In article <3c439bf6.3998399@localhost>, ak...@nyu.edu says...
>> On re-reading I see that your attitude towards sky diving is as
>> eletist and silly as your attitude towards food.
>
>some people cannot recognize sarcasm when they see it.
Sarcasm just doesn't come across well in this medium. It places a
greater burden on the writer, not the reader, to fix this problem.
>repeat after me: Eugene (Predator or pr3d4t0r or wasabi-san or whatever
>you want to call me) is just making fun of the guys (including
>himself) who began taking this thing too seriously to begin with.
>
>> Not that I have every sky dived. I find the idea of jumping
>> out of a perfectly good airplane frightening and unnecesary.
>
>yeah, that's how some people feel about eating grasshoppers and live
>lobsters too. don't let me get started about eating dogs in Thailand...
>though they're yummy. and durian... yummy too if you're into that kind
>of thing.
I tried that. It looks like scrambled eggs, smells like garbage, and
tastes like mild custard. My senses were confused.
>can't we all just get along? relax. have fun. the whole "California
>roll debate" was funny to begin with.
>
>if you'd read all the other postings you'd realized by now that the
>"Sushi Master" thing was also a joke. like the bit about Mazda Miata's
>and hot cocoa chasers for cognac.
The humor is lost in the translation. I see that you were trying to
be funny and not actually being snobish, but it was just completely
lost. Humor, especially of the dry or sarcastic variety, is damn hard
to convey in this medium. Sorry to say, but I think you failed :-)
>
>btw: California rolls still suck.
They are certainly not my favorite, but if people like them, who am I
to stop them?
}..{
Agnieszka
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> In article <140120021731087656%222...@adelphia.net>, 222...@adelphia.net
> i ate my share of California rolls during
> those five years because i liked the way tobiko popped in my mouth.
> loved the crab. loved the avocado.
Then allow others to like them without your judgement littering their
path.
> the mayonnaise always seemed out of
> place, though. one day i wound up having a Japanese culture course, two
> sushi outings with my teachers, yada yada yada, and then i understood Tao
> and why it isn't in the California roll.
No, what's in the roll is crab and avocado and roe. Tao doesn't make
much of a meal. But it works as good as any other bludgeon for making
your opinion something *more* than opinion.
Nazodesu
> >btw: California rolls still suck.
>
> They are certainly not my favorite, but if people like them, who am I
> to stop them?
A Tao-informed sushi master?
Nazodesu
<photo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What's on the geta? Just the ginger?
Trinker
I attempt to imagine Lao-Tzu lecturing someone on the evil of
California rolls, and instead end up laughing at the very concept.
Fuminori Takeda
222...@adelphia.net wrote:
Yes. Sushi and gari.
I never dip sushi in wasabi mixed with soy (or soy mixed with wasabi).
Ken Blake
news:3C439684...@yahoo.com...
I guess not. I can't imagine eating noodles with a spoon. It
might be like eating soup with a fork.
Ken Blake
news:a206gq$tin2j$1...@ID-85450.news.dfncis.de...
> "Ken Blake" <kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> > <calt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > Beats me. Many places in Japan don't.
>
> > True. But some do. And in the US, many, if not most, do.
>
> I have *never* been to a sushi restaurant in Japan where extra
wasabi is
> provided by the itamae. Then again, I haven't been to all of
them. Yet.
> :-)
Perhaps my memory is faulty; I haven't been in Japan for 20
years. But I thought I remembered seeing it there.
At any rate, it's very common in the USA.
Predator
> I attempt to imagine Lao-Tzu lecturing someone on the evil of
> California rolls, and instead end up laughing at the very concept.
>
have fun,
James Silverton
tribal people who don't normally use chopsticks, employ them for
noodles. It would be quite a struggle to eat Vietnamese Pho noodle soup
with only a spoon and everyone that I know uses chopsticks as well.
Jim.
--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland.
Nazodesu
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> I guess not. I can't imagine eating noodles with a spoon. It
> might be like eating soup with a fork.
Think of how you eat spaghetti.
Nazodesu
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> Perhaps my memory is faulty; I haven't been in Japan for 20
> years. But I thought I remembered seeing it there.
I saw it in every sushi place I ate last October (maybe three). So the
next assertion would logically be that the sushi chef was making
special accomodation for what he perceived as unsophisticated gaijin.
Thomas Gilg
>> I was back in Japan not too long ago and I can confirm that you
>> do *not* place wasabi in your soy sauce.
>
> If you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce, why does the
> itamae-san put wasabi on your plate?
A sushi book I bought says that you only mix soy and
wasabi when eating sashimi, and that for sushi where the
chef has already applied wasabi, you should only dip in
pure soy. The book also says that if you start out eating
sashimi, it is appropriate to ask for a clean soy bowl
before moving to sushi.
Thomas Gilg
Ken Blake
news:a21pvj$1t1$1...@hpcvnews.cv.hp.com...
> Ken Blake wrote:
> >> I was back in Japan not too long ago and I can confirm that
you
> >> do *not* place wasabi in your soy sauce.
> >
> > If you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce, why does the
> > itamae-san put wasabi on your plate?
>
> A sushi book I bought says that you only mix soy and
> wasabi when eating sashimi, and that for sushi where the
> chef has already applied wasabi, you should only dip in
> pure soy.
You've apparently come late to the thread. Yes, many people, and
many books, say that. That was the assertion I was replying to
when I made the above statement.
I was pointing out that that assertion makes no sense in an
environment where the sushi chef puts wasabi on your sushi plate.
It's clearly there for you to use if you want more.
Ken Blake
If you mean with a spoon against which to twirl the spaghetti
held in the fork, no I don't eat spaghetti that way. It's a
thoroughly un-Italian way of eating spaghetti. I use a fork
alone, as Italians do.
No Name
designated as Kappa-maki. If memory serves, Kappa , mythologically, are
Japanese water imps with a keenness for cucumber. I apologize if this has
been mentioned already. I near-fainted when I saw that this board had
around 400 unread posts on it since my last check. I'm used to you guys
only posting a few times a day!
On an unrelated note, I find unagi to taste somewhat (don't ask how...) like
bacon. A good way to get someone to try it. I've converted a few people
this way.
Predator
nos...@none.com says...
howdy!
thanks for the infos. i'll update the HOWTO this coming Thursday evening
or so.
best wishes,
No Name
knows the parts to a Futo Maki roll, let alone enjoys it. Our Ita-san gives
me an odd look when I order it. Apparently, it's not that popular. Ah
well. More for me!
PS: Is salmon roe supposed to be THAT fishy? If so..Whew. Overwhelming.
Nazodesu
<kbl...@this.is.an.invalid.domain.com> wrote:
> > > I guess not. I can't imagine eating noodles with a spoon. It
> > > might be like eating soup with a fork.
> >
> > Think of how you eat spaghetti.
>
> If you mean with a spoon against which to twirl the spaghetti
> held in the fork, no I don't eat spaghetti that way. It's a
> thoroughly un-Italian way of eating spaghetti. I use a fork
> alone, as Italians do.
Same here. I like the idea of using the spoon, but I always forget and
find it kind of unnecessarily "tidy" anyway. It's like cheating
somehow. In any case it's an option.
asah...@mac.com
ghost <tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> greetings,
>
> at the request of several friends i put together a "sushi eating HOWTO"
> document; it covers basic protocol and food at the sushi bar. if you
> have a chance, could you please have a look and provide your feedback?
>
> http://lavender.cime.net/~ciurana/sushi-eating-HOWTO.html
>
> it began as an email to my brother. later many of my friends wanted a
> copy of it, so i decided to make it more formal.
>
> this is not a commercial advertising for anything. i really just want to
> improve the content. the style of the document, jokingly, resembles a
> UNIX HOWTO manual. it has lots of bullet points and is very concise.
>
> if you like it and find it accurate, i would probably convert it to an
> ASCII file and post it in this newsgroup. i'm also planning Spanish,
> Russian and French translations.
>
> thanks in advance, and best wishes,
>
> pr3d4t0r
> "Use simple tools and superior grey matter to
> figure out what's wrong." -- Mattew Strebe
One thing I noticed, and forgive me if it has been mentioned, was the
part about grabbing sushi from a shared plate with one's hashi. Isn't it
best to use the opposite end(top) of the hashi to grab the sushi from a
shared plate? If so, maybe that should be more clear on that part. Also,
I thought sake was more of a before and/or after drink. I read somewhere
since it is made from rice it doesn't mix well with sushi which is also
made with rice. I always see biiru and agari(green tea?) being the main
things to drink during a sushi meal. Sorry if this is all wrong just
trying to add some input and learn some.
Scott
Ken Blake
To an Italian, it's about the equivalent of eating peas with a
knife.
Predator
asah...@mac.com says...
> One thing I noticed, and forgive me if it has been mentioned, was the
> part about grabbing sushi from a shared plate with one's hashi. Isn't it
> best to use the opposite end(top) of the hashi to grab the sushi from a
> shared plate? If so, maybe that should be more clear on that part. Also,
> I thought sake was more of a before and/or after drink. I read somewhere
> since it is made from rice it doesn't mix well with sushi which is also
> made with rice. I always see biiru and agari(green tea?) being the main
> things to drink during a sushi meal. Sorry if this is all wrong just
> trying to add some input and learn some.
1. correct on the use of hashi; i forgot to indicate that you should
use the opposite end to pick things up from someone's plate.
2. sake: may be ingested before, during, or after the meal. beer is also
very common. what you don't want is softdrinks or anything else that
will do a number on your palate.
cheers!
Nona Myers
>It's hard being most likely the only 16 year old on the East Coast that
>knows the parts to a Futo Maki roll, let alone enjoys it. Our Ita-san gives
>me an odd look when I order it. Apparently, it's not that popular. Ah
>well. More for me!
I would not worry about it. Kappa maki is popular low-cost sushi in
Japan. It was my favorite (still like it) when I was growing up in
Japan and I also think that it's a nice way to end my sushi eating
ritual. As far as him giving you odd looks it may be due to the fact
that it's not often ordered in the U.S. or perhaps his training and
experience is limited to the U.S. and not in Japan. Kids seem to like
kappa maki as well as kanpyo maki in Japan. I personally don't like
any other type of maki found here in the U.S. though.
Nona Shinagawa Myers
(another foodie and hapa)
Nona Myers
>It's hard being most likely the only 16 year old on the East Coast that
>knows the parts to a Futo Maki roll, let alone enjoys it. Our Ita-san gives
>me an odd look when I order it. Apparently, it's not that popular. Ah
>well. More for me!
I would not worry about it. Kappa maki is popular low-cost sushi in
Celine Allan
>
> If you should not add wasabi to your soy sauce, why does the
> itamae-san put wasabi on your plate?
>
That's a good question, Ken. I personally don't like to add wasabi to
soy. I tried it once and didn't care for the combination in one little
dish. However, I have been known to spread a bit more wasabi on the
bottom of my ikura sushi with a chopstick and then dip into the soy. I
can only assume that in good bars the sushi chef prepares your order the
way he thinks it should be, but finally leaves it to the discretion of
the diner.
Celine
Nazodesu
<tek...@NO.bluemail.SPAM.ch> wrote:
> > Also,
> > I thought sake was more of a before and/or after drink. I read somewhere
> > since it is made from rice it doesn't mix well with sushi which is also
> > made with rice. I always see biiru and agari(green tea?) being the main
> > things to drink during a sushi meal. Sorry if this is all wrong just
> > trying to add some input and learn some.
>
> 1. correct on the use of hashi; i forgot to indicate that you should
> use the opposite end to pick things up from someone's plate.
>
> 2. sake: may be ingested before, during, or after the meal. beer is also
> very common. what you don't want is softdrinks or anything else that
> will do a number on your palate.
I agree, and prefer cold sake. There is a view, though, that since
sake is a rice product that to eat it with rice is like having "liquid
rice" with rice. Some consider it an uninformed selection with sushi
proper.
On the other hand I don't eat that much sushi, mostly eat sashimi,
cooked foods, and such rarely eat that much rice anyway. So maybe I'm
safe.
spam]@world.std.com Blair P. Houghton
>I agree, and prefer cold sake. There is a view, though, that since
>sake is a rice product that to eat it with rice is like having "liquid
>rice" with rice. Some consider it an uninformed selection with sushi
>proper.
Considering the number of Japanese I've seen who drink sake
while eating sushi, I think it's kind of moot.
I was finally called on the practice of ordering both
beer and hot sake at the sushi bar, by a nice Japanese
gentleman I'd sat next to. He wasn't reproaching, just
a bit surprised.
I explained (a) I know it's supposed to be eccentric to do
that; (b) I get the beer to go with the sushi and edamame
while the sake goes with the sashimi, sunomono, etc., and
covers the periods when there's waiting to be done; (c) I'd
always done it that way and I just don't have the right
sensation on the drive home if I haven't had both, or if I
haven't got any tobiko to find then in my teeth; but (d)
there are people who drop the sake cup *in* the beer to
make a Sake Bomber, and I refuse to do that.
I think he was convinced. Or maybe just amused that I'd
gone so deeply into it.
--Blair
"I bet the people who think sake doesn't
go with sushi wouldn't like finding out
there's tofu in their miso soup..."
Fuminori Takeda
> I saw it in every sushi place I ate last October (maybe three). So the
> next assertion would logically be that the sushi chef was making
> special accomodation for what he perceived as unsophisticated gaijin.
I guess the chef just followed a simple rule;
It is up to you whether you use it or not.
Nona
> I noticed that the author of the guide did not know why cucumber rolls are
> designated as Kappa-maki. If memory serves, Kappa , mythologically, are
> Japanese water imps with a keenness for cucumber.
Yes, that is correct. Kappa always reminded me of half human and turtle.
Nona
Nazodesu
spam]@world.std.com> wrote:
> Nazodesu <222...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> >I agree, and prefer cold sake. There is a view, though, that since
> >sake is a rice product that to drinking it with rice is like having
> >"liquid rice" with rice. Some consider it an uninformed selection
> >with sushi proper.
>
> Considering the number of Japanese I've seen who drink sake while
> eating sushi, I think it's kind of moot.
Get serious! Almost every aspect of every discussion in this group is
moot.
> I was finally called on the practice of ordering both beer and hot
> sake at the sushi bar, by a nice Japanese gentleman I'd sat next to.
> He wasn't reproaching, just a bit surprised.
>
> I explained (a) I know it's supposed to be eccentric to do that; (b)
> I get the beer to go with the sushi and edamame while the sake goes
> with the sashimi, sunomono, etc., and covers the periods when there's
> waiting to be done; (c) I'd always done it that way and I just don't
> have the right sensation on the drive home if I haven't had both, or
> if I haven't got any tobiko to find then in my teeth; but (d) there
> are people who drop the sake cup *in* the beer to make a Sake Bomber,
> and I refuse to do that.
Points for you for doing whatever the hell you damn well please.
I've seen folks bring in a really good French wine and drink it with
their food, pour a glass for the chef and chat about it at length.
I've seen that a couple of times. If you can work that into your act I
feel sure you'll make even more friends at dinner.
Digital Dreamer
You are correct in your assumption. Our ita-san was trained in the USA, if
I remember correctly. Despite his training in the states, he still makes
very good sushi and sashimi. However, I doubt that anyone could really make
me enjoy salmon roe. To me, it has an overwhelming salty/fishy taste. I'm
not big on roe. It's a shame that very few people, if any, on the East
coast actually make their tamago on the premises. I've gotten 'the look' at
two places, now. I suppose that not too many people like it.
Respectfully,
The Poster Without a Name.
Nazodesu
<wak...@noon.com> wrote:
> You are correct in your assumption. Our ita-san was trained in the
> USA, if I remember correctly. Despite his training in the states, he
> still makes very good sushi and sashimi. However, I doubt that
> anyone could really make me enjoy salmon roe. To me, it has an
> overwhelming salty/fishy taste.
Jeez, I've never thought of it that way. I like a salty/fishy taste,
as with saba for instance. But "overwhelming". I don't see it that
way. Have you had it very often? Maybe you got a different batch.
> I'm not big on roe. It's a shame that very few people, if any, on
> the East coast actually make their tamago on the premises. I've
> gotten 'the look' at two places, now. I suppose that not too many
> people like it.
I can't imagine why they'd being sending out for tamago. That doesn't
sound right at all. Though I can't be sure, but I've always thought
that at even even semi-serious places it was done on site.
I use to ask about the saba, whether it was pickled there and it was
almost always the case. I'd ask, if they said yes it was my first order
of sashimi. Recently one very nice place said no, they only pickle it
during certain times of the year when it was of a certain grade. I
thought that surprising. But tamago? It seem relatively cheap to do
on site It use to be my long-standing closing item. Just a block or
two of tamago, no rice.
Nona Myers
wrote:
>You are correct in your assumption. Our ita-san was trained in the USA, if
>I remember correctly.
Some that I tried in the U.S. are not bad, but for me it's hard to
compare with some places in Japan though. However, in August last
year I had some good sushi in Las Vegas (Ceasar's Palace). The four
itamae were all Japanese (two recently came within 4 months, one
within 2 years, and the 4th itamae has been in U.S. for 16 years).
and oDespite his training in the states, he still makes
>very good sushi and sashimi. However, I doubt that anyone could really make
>me enjoy salmon roe. To me, it has an overwhelming salty/fishy taste. I'm
>not big on roe.
I'm also not too keen on roes either, but I do like uni either as
sushi or in broth (gives broth wonderful taste). My mother on other
hand loves roes but can't stand uni. But, we both love natto. (g)
It's a shame that very few people, if any, on the East
>coast actually make their tamago on the premises. I've gotten 'the look' at
>two places, now. I suppose that not too many people like it.
I used to watch lotsa Japanese videos related to food and food
establishments. In one video about sushi places the itamae was
explaining that how tamago is made on premise is a good indicator of
how good sushi or sashimi will be served since tamago is normally
considered such a lowly item and if it is treated with respect in
proper preparation then other items should be good. Sounds right to
me.
Digital Dreamer
Perhaps you are right. I may have just had a so-so batch. But having very
little roe experience, perhaps I was just unprepared for it. I consider
myself fairly adventurous, but even I can't help but feel a bit squeamish
about Uni, as well. I'll give it another try. As for Tamago, I just assumed
that many places order it because of it's less popular status. Not to
mention it sounds like it'd be a slight pain to run back and forth from the
bar to the kitchen. Plus, tamago pans are in limited quantity, I guess.
Nona,
I also have read about Tamago being a good standard to judge an
establishment by. I also read, in the same source, that it no longer
applies to today, because few actually make it on the premisis anymore.
I would love to visit one of these days. My father has a few friends in
Japan, though I cannot remember exactly where. They have offered room and
board for a vacation if I wished to come. I know a few of the customs, and
pretty sure I can make it from place to place without horribly offending
anyone or making a spectacle out of myself.I'd love to try the other foods
over there, as well as sushi.
I also have read about Tamago being a good standard to judge an
establishment by. I also read, in the same source, that it no longer
applies to today, because few actually make it on the premisis anymore.
But...
Natto? Eeeeeeaugh! It looks like baked beans mixed with caramel...and the
smell...
I suppose it's an acquired taste.