Mother of Hildebrante of France
KHF333
An extensive ahnentafel file on the Capetians posted by a researcher named
Zerbst to the America Online Lineage Library show Robert I's other spouse
Aelis being the mother of his daughter Hildebrante of France (as well as
another daughter, Emma) rather than Beatrice of Vermandois. Does anyone know
who the true mother of Heldebrants was? And what is the source?
- Ken
Richard Borthwick
Liegarde] dau. of Robert I (d.923) king of France by his first wife Aelis.
Robert I's second wife (m. about 890) was Beatrix de Vermandois, paternal
aunt of Hildebrante/Adela, that is dau. of Heribert I de Vermandois. Aelis'
identity is unknown.
ES II:10, III/1:49
>
KHF333
In a message dated 4/1/98 1:08:51 AM, I wrote:
An extensive ahnentafel file on the Capetians posted by a researcher named
Zerbst to the America Online Lineage Library show Robert I's other spouse
Aelis being the mother of his daughter Hildebrante of France (as well as
another daughter, Emma) rather than Beatrice of Vermandois. Does anyone know
who the true mother of Heldebrants was? And what is the source?
- Ken
REPLY:
Heribert II de Vermandois (d.943) m. before 907 Hildebrante [aka Adela aka
Liegarde] dau. of Robert I (d.923) king of France by his first wife Aelis.
Robert I's second wife (m. about 890) was Beatrix de Vermandois, paternal
aunt of Hildebrante/Adela, that is dau. of Heribert I de Vermandois. Aelis'
identity is unknown. Source: ES II:10, III/1:49
Richard Borthwick <rg...@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
REPLY II:
There seems to be no reason to believe that her name was Heldebrants.
Philippe Lauer in Le Régne de Louis IV d'Outre-Mer (Paris, 1900), p. 8, n.
4, states, in reference to Herbert of Vermandois, whose wife was the
daughter of King Robert, "Les auteurs de l'Art de vérifier les dates (éd. De
1784, t. II, p. 246) l'appellent Hildebrante d'après Du Bouchet. L'autorité
de se généalogiste est bien faible; aucun text ne confirme son dire. Hugues
le Grand était l'avunculus des fils d'Herbert II (Flodoard). Cf. D'Arbois
de Jubainville, ibid., p. 76. La femme d'Herbert II est mentionnée sans nom
in 931 dans Flodoard." In his edition of Flodoard's Annals (Les Annales de
Flodoard, Paris, 1905), Lauer twice states that this daughter of Robert is
called Hildebrante "sans preuves" (p. 40 n. 4, 51 n. 4).
Michel Bur, in his La formation du comté de Champagne (Nancy, 1977), states
that Herbert II of Vermandois was married to Adèle, "née du premier marriage
du roi Robert Ier" (p. 89). In the accompanying genealogical chart (p. 88),
the name of the mother of Robert's daughters Adele and Emma is given as
unknown.
For her name as Adela, see Karl Ferdinand Werner, "Untersuchungen zur
Frühzeit des französischen Fürstentums," in Die Welt als Geschichte, 2
(1960), p. 96, with a discussion of the sources in n. 35.
Steve Fanning
sfan...@uic.edu
Ahh, the fun of medieval genealogy.
- Ken
Kenneth Harper Finton
Editor, THE PLANTAGENET CONNECTION
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Todd A. Farmerie
KHF333 wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/1/98 1:08:51 AM, I wrote:
>
> An extensive ahnentafel file on the Capetians posted by a researcher named
> Zerbst to the America Online Lineage Library show Robert I's other spouse
> Aelis being the mother of his daughter Hildebrante of France (as well as
> another daughter, Emma) rather than Beatrice of Vermandois. Does anyone know
> who the true mother of Heldebrants was? And what is the source?
[snip]
> Michel Bur, in his La formation du comté de Champagne (Nancy, 1977), states
> that Herbert II of Vermandois was married to Adèle, "née du premier marriage
> du roi Robert Ier" (p. 89). In the accompanying genealogical chart (p. 88),
> the name of the mother of Robert's daughters Adele and Emma is given as
> unknown.
>
FWIW, in an article discussing some southern wives (Barcelona, Urgel,
Toulouse, Rouergue, etc.) Vajay speculates that the mother of "Adele" (I
don't recall the name he uses for her) and Emma was daughter of Louis
the German by the Welfin Emma. This was based solely on nomenclature,
and the paper as a whole should be taken with a few grains of salt (the
word Pacific comes to mind).
taf