Comments wanted re towing a 5th wheel with 2500 Ram diesel
RamRider2000
I have a 1999 Dodge 2500 4x4 p/u with an 8ft bed. The axle ratio is 3.55. I
would like to get a 5th wheel camper trailer that would weight about 10,500
pound loaded. My owner's manual says I can pull a trailer with a max weight of
9,400 pounds and a gross combined weight of pickup with trailere of 16,000 lbs.
I know I would not have trouble pulling 10,500 pounds on level roads, but I
know I probably will be in mountain country some day,... and that's a different
story! My owner's book gives specs for a truck with a 4.10 axle ratio and
rates that for a trailer weighing 11,400 pounds. Would like comments from
folks who pull 5th wheels with a pickup like mine and what kind of weight they
can handle. Also would appreciate any comments on mechanical changes I could
make to beef up my truck to deal with heavier loads.
Thanks all... Kenny S, Long Island, N.Y.
JimmyJoeRussBob
>My owner's manual says I can pull a trailer with a max weight of
>9,400 pounds
You'd be overloaded, simple as that
As Smokey Yunick said "The price of progress is trouble and as the monkey took
a whiz into the cash register drawer, it's going to run tnto money."
Greg Surratt
wrote:
>I'm new to this group and hoping someone can help me out on this:
>I have a 1999 Dodge 2500 4x4 p/u with an 8ft bed. The axle ratio is 3.55. I
>would like to get a 5th wheel camper trailer that would weight about 10,500
>pound loaded. My owner's manual says I can pull a trailer with a max weight of
>9,400 pounds and a gross combined weight of pickup with trailere of 16,000 lbs.
>I know I would not have trouble pulling 10,500 pounds on level roads, but I
>know I probably will be in mountain country some day,... and that's a different
>story! My owner's book gives specs for a truck with a 4.10 axle ratio and
>rates that for a trailer weighing 11,400 pounds. Would like comments from
>folks who pull 5th wheels with a pickup like mine and what kind of weight they
>can handle. Also would appreciate any comments on mechanical changes I could
>make to beef up my truck to deal with heavier loads.
>Thanks all... Kenny S, Long Island, N.Y.
I just pulled a 34 foot 5th wheel from Arizona to Virginia with a '98
3500 Ram, Cummins, Auto, 3.54 rears. The GCWR was 17780 - so my setup
is very close to what you are looking at - minus the 4x4 option but
with dual rear wheels.
The first two days, I wanted to see what the truck was capable of so I
towed in overdrive with the cruise set between 65 and 70 (1750-1800
rpm). I found it "acceptable" in that I could maintain better than 55
in most conditions, with a downshift occurring at 50 mph on some of
the steeper hills. I got down to 40 in second pulling the grade
northbound out of Las Cruces (but still passed a couple of semis.) On
flat ground, when I chose to pass, I could tromp on the accelerator
and accelerate with no problem to speeds in excess of 80 mph.
The rest of the trip, I dropped out of overdrive to direct, set the
cruise on 55 (2250-2300 rpm). I found this to be more comfortable and
was able to maintain a constant 55 mph regardless of conditions
including the mountains in East Tennessee and I-81 in Virginia. This
was because the engine makes more power at the higher rpm. This also
made my right hand passenger (she who must be obeyed) a lot more
comfortable.
Greg
RedNeck from Hell
>I just pulled a 34 foot 5th wheel from Arizona to Virginia with a '98
>3500 Ram, Cummins, Auto, 3.54 rears. The GCWR was 17780 - so my setup
>is very close to what you are looking at - minus the 4x4 option but
>with dual rear wheels.
>
>
I didn't know 2500's came with dual rear wheels.
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm
Happiness is driving an ass kicking big block Mopar
Greg Surratt
wrote:
Then read it again. :)
I said I have the duals on my 3500 4x2 - the original poster has a
2500 with singles and a 4x4.
Something else I forgot to mention was stopping power. I originally
planned on getting an exhaust brake installed. Dodge says they won't
honor warranties on the automatics with exhaust brakes and torque
converter lockup switches.
After this trip, I have decided that by dropping into direct and
letting the torque converter "work in reverse", the engine will
provide adequate braking power for most situations. In those rare
situations where I need to descend a 6% forever long grade, I will
just have to take it a bit slower and pay close attention to my
ability to pull over and cool the brakes if necessary.
In other words, after doing a bit of "risk assessment", I've decided
the tradeoff in cost of an exhaust brake vs the number of times I
would really use it is out of proportion.
Greg
Mike Simmons
I am sorry to report that your truck is not up to the task of handling the
fiver your are contemplating purchasing. The max weight Chryco recommends
is just that, the MAX weight. I would not recommend exceeding that. I
suspect from your description that you have the 5.9L V8 engine and with the
3.55 axle you will be disappointed when it comes to hills.
Chryco Service Manager
Member SAE
RamRider2000 <ramrid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000623002047...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
Brent
RedNeck from Hell <mopa...@aol.comxxx> wrote in message
news:20000623112213...@ng-cp1.aol.com...
> >
> >I just pulled a 34 foot 5th wheel from Arizona to Virginia with a '98
> >3500 Ram, Cummins, Auto, 3.54 rears. The GCWR was 17780 - so my setup
> >is very close to what you are looking at - minus the 4x4 option but
> >with dual rear wheels.
> >
> >
>
> I didn't know 2500's came with dual rear wheels.
>
>
> Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm
> Happiness is driving an ass kicking big block Mopar
>
Read it again. He said his truck was similar (powertrain), he also
wrote that his was a 3500.
Brent
ASE and Gold Certified
Chrysler Technician
Joe B.
wrote:
>>
>>I just pulled a 34 foot 5th wheel from Arizona to Virginia with a '98
>>3500 Ram, Cummins, Auto, 3.54 rears. The GCWR was 17780 - so my setup
>>is very close to what you are looking at - minus the 4x4 option but
>>with dual rear wheels.
>>
>>
>
>I didn't know 2500's came with dual rear wheels.
What he said was.... he didn't have 4X4 and did have dual wheels.
Learn to read the post before you comments.
John Lindsey
rec.outdoors.rv-travel Safety is a big issue and they'll point you to
specific URLs.
We have a 2000 Ram 2500 QC LB,4x2, trailer towing package, anti sway bars,
4.01, auto tranny pulling a 10500 GVW Arctic Fox and we are under, but
close. Towing is not the problem, stopping is - downhill on mountain roads
and panic stops when jerks pull out in front of you.
The following issues also come to mind: RV manufacturers and truck salesmen
are infamous for lying about weight - weigh everything loaded on a scale.
Your 4x4 may not match the 5er height and one may need raised/lowered. If
you have an manual tranny you can get an exhaust brake which may help. If
you get generator added to the 5er and/or auxiliary fuel tank or storage box
added to the truck, weight goes up.
Good Luck!
John
RamRider2000 wrote in message
<20000623002047...@ng-bk1.aol.com>...
RedNeck from Hell
>What he said was.... he didn't have 4X4 and did have dual wheels.
>Learn to read the post before you comments.
I did moron
I don't recall asking for your opinion.
The original poster has a single rear wheel truck. The reply was how well a
dually pulls a load. I suppose using your moronic logic, I should have told
him how well my dually 4.X 4 pulls a load too.
Any other "bright" comments?????
RamRider2000
engine is a diesel, but I failed to put that in the body of the posting.
RedNeck from Hell
>wrote that his was a 3500.
>
> Brent
(sigh)
The original poster had a 2500. As you know they are single rear wheels. He
wanted to know about pulling with it;
The 2nd poster tells him how well his 3500
tows a camping trailer. If I thought the original poster wanted to know how
well a 3500 towed I'd have told him about my 3500 4 X 4 and towing.
This is about a stupid as last winter some guy wants to know how well a 2 wheel
drive dually would do in the snow and everybody with a 4 X 4 proceeds to tell
him how well they do in the snow. REAL helpful. Just like your post.
Mike Simmons
part. The Cummins will definitely help but a lower axle ratio would be
helpful. The brakes and suspension are also marginal for this application.
Finally, RV makers are VERY optimistic when rating their coach's weights.
Be sure that the weight you are quoting is accurate with the real world. I
have found that the "quoted" weight from the mfr. and the "real world"
weight vary by well over 1000 lbs.
Mike
RamRider2000 <ramrid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000623230201...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
Greg Surratt
wrote:
>(sigh)
>The original poster had a 2500. As you know they are single rear wheels. He
>wanted to know about pulling with it;
>The 2nd poster tells him how well his 3500
>tows a camping trailer. If I thought the original poster wanted to know how
>well a 3500 towed I'd have told him about my 3500 4 X 4 and towing.
>This is about a stupid as last winter some guy wants to know how well a 2 wheel
>drive dually would do in the snow and everybody with a 4 X 4 proceeds to tell
>him how well they do in the snow. REAL helpful. Just like your post.
>
>
>Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm
>Happiness is driving an ass kicking big block Mopar
Join in. I answered about my 3500 because, since he was giving weight
information on his rig, he was probably (ok I ASSumed) looking for
power and speed information. Had he asked about stability, I have no
basis for comparison and would have kept silent.
Your rig is even closer to the original than mine is, since you have a
4x4 which means you COULD provide some constructive input to this
thread. I'm sure that the two extra wheels don't provide any
significant power loss between your rig and the original poster if you
were both hooked to the same heavy trailer and pulling the same steep
grade.
Greg
Greg Surratt
<nospamj...@home.com> wrote:
>The following issues also come to mind: RV manufacturers and truck salesmen
>are infamous for lying about weight
Not just salemen and RV manufacturers. My father under-stated the
weight of the fifth wheel he sold me by 2,000 lbs. He had owned the
trailer for 11 years, pulling with a '91 Dodge 250 Cummins/Auto/3.54.
He had never run it across the scales.
Weigh it yourself! And be very liberal with the weight of the "stuff"
you intend to load so you can work with a "worst case" scenario during
your planning/shopping phase.
Greg
Fitch R. Williams
>I'm new to this group and hoping someone can help me out on this:
>I have a 1999 Dodge 2500 4x4 p/u with an 8ft bed. The axle ratio is 3.55. I
>would like to get a 5th wheel camper trailer that would weight about 10,500
>pound loaded. My owner's manual says I can pull a trailer with a max weight of
>9,400 pounds and a gross combined weight of pickup with trailere of 16,000 lbs.
>I know I would not have trouble pulling 10,500 pounds on level roads, but I
>know I probably will be in mountain country some day,... and that's a different
>story! My owner's book gives specs for a truck with a 4.10 axle ratio and
>rates that for a trailer weighing 11,400 pounds. Would like comments from
>folks who pull 5th wheels with a pickup like mine and what kind of weight they
>can handle. Also would appreciate any comments on mechanical changes I could
>make to beef up my truck to deal with heavier loads.
>Thanks all... Kenny S, Long Island, N.Y.
In terms of power - I have only 2WD trucks so can't comment on stability,
etc. for the 4 x 4 - the Cummins will handle your trailer with a 3.55 axle
and a 5 spd, but not nearly as well as it would with a 4.10 axle and a 5
spd. I don't know if you have a stick or an automatic (or if you posted
that fact I missed it). This makes a huge difference. Dyno testing (see
table below - set news reader display to courier font) shows that the stick
puts about 30% more power to the road. This data is from dyno testing at a
Cummins distributor on a chassis dyno. All dyno numbers are rear wheel hp,
the advertised numbers are flywheel hp. The performance of the trucks
equipped with an automatic is truly disappointing compared with the manual
transmission. None of the data is for CA emission equipped vehicles -
which would be less powerful - at least the 12Vs in the 96/97 model years.
>All tests run in direct drive, overdrive is not used, torque converters are
>locked.
> Year Advertised Observed Calculated Ratio
> flywheel BHP ground WHP Efficiency Manual/Auto
>94-95 auto 160 115 72%
>94-95 manu 175 150 86% 1.30
>96-97 auto 180 125 69%
>96-97 manu 215 190 88% 1.52
>98-00 auto 215 135 63%
>98-00 manu 235 175 74% 1.30
The automatic is weaker (less pull and more prone to failure) in OD so you
will effectively have a 3 speed transmission if you use an automatic to
pull this trailer.
If you have a stick, you could install a US Gear under drive auxiliary
transmission (the under drive ratio is 1.25 which gives you effectively a
4.43 rear axle) and use it like a split shifted transmission. If the only
difference between your truck and one that is rated to pull 11,400 lb
trailer is the axle ratio - adding the under drive auxiliary transmission
will solve that problem. I don't know how having a 4 x 4 affects using an
under drive transmission.
I think you could use the US gear aux with an automatic - it may not be
useful for split shifting, but I would think you could put it in the low
range and just drive when hauling. The effective 4.43 axle ratio would
make life much easier for an automatic transmission in a couple of ways.
Again, I only have 2WD trucks - and the fact that you have a 4 x 4 may make
this information useless.
I have pulled a 10,000 lb bumper pull with both my 1999 3500 and my 1995
2500 trucks with no problems. The 1995 truck has a 4.10 axle and actually
comes up the grapevine out of Bakersfield (7 miles of nonstop 6% and 7%
grade topping out at 4,000 ft) faster even though it has (on paper at
least) less power than my 1999 with the 3.55 axle. Why? Because the 4.10
and the direct drive 4th gear let the engine hit full power at 55 mph - so
it climbs that 7% grade for miles in a row at 55 - 58 mph nice as you
please, keeps cool on a 105F day, etc. The 1999 truck comes up the same
grade, same trailer, same load, only 90F outside, 10 mph slower and a gear
lower because it has the 3.55 axle and forces the engine below its power
band in 4th gear. If the 1999 truck had a 4.10 axle it would climb the
grade faster.
Fitch
In So. Cal. High Desert
1995 Reg. Cab 2WD 2500SLT/12V/5spd/4.10/Turnover Ball gooseneck hitch/Tekonsha Sentinel
1999 QC 2 WD 3500SLT/24V/5spd/3.55/customized mirrors/Turnover Ball gooseneck hitch/
Tekonsha Sentinel/Class IV DrawTite rear hitch/RhinoLiner.
Fitch R. Williams
>I've already spoke to a mechanic who says there's no
>problem in changing my 4x4 3.54 axle ratio to 4.10
Both axles ... right? <BG>
RamRider2000
message. I probably will end up getting a trailer that has a DryGrossWeight of
7473 lbs. and try to keep it's loaded weight under the 9400 pound limit for my
Ram.
I just wish there was an easy way to turn my 2500 into a 3500 with dual rear
wheels. Is that possible? I've already spoke to a mechanic who says there's no
problem in changing my 4x4 3.54 axle ratio to 4.10
Thanks again,... Kenny S - Long Island NY
Greg Surratt
wrote:
But doesn't the 3500 have bigger brake surfaces or larger rear wheel
cylinders?? Adding two tires doesn't necessarily compensate for other
"short-comings" in the weight department.
Greg
RedNeck from Hell
>Your rig is even closer to the original than mine is, since you have a
>4x4 which means you COULD provide some constructive input to this
>thread.
Guess I didn't mention having towed my same trailer with a 2500 4 X 2 or a 350
4 X 4with SRW, and using a friend's 2500 extended cab Cummins.
Actually my very first post said it all, he'd be overloaded.
> I'm sure that the two extra wheels don't provide any
>significant power loss between your rig and the original poster
I don't know, there's another post in here where the guy claims the 2 extra
wheels increase resistance 50%!!!!!!!!
ROFLMAO at the one!!!!!!!!
Greg Surratt
wrote:
>> I'm sure that the two extra wheels don't provide any
>>significant power loss between your rig and the original poster
>
>I don't know, there's another post in here where the guy claims the 2 extra
>wheels increase resistance 50%!!!!!!!!
>ROFLMAO at the one!!!!!!!!
WOW!! Maybe I'll just pull the outside duallies off mine next time I
pull the fiver and see if I can go really, really fast without the
extra resistance! :)
Or else still tow at 55 mph and get really, really good fuel mileage?
Greg
RamRider2000
transmissin with overdrive.