[OT] Funny dream...
Joona I Palaste
was there... only Timothy Rue was invisible. I also thought it was
perfectly natural for Timothy Rue to be invisible. He lay on my father's
couch, got himself wrapped up in a blanket, and accidentally fell to the
floor. Then his hand started showing. I said "Timothy Rue, your hand is
showing". Then I woke up.
This is the weirdest CSAM-related dream (OK, OK, the only CSAM-related
dream) I've had so far.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"My absolute aspect is probably..."
- Mato Valtonen
Uffe Holst
In an article of 2 Oct 2001 Joona I Palaste wrote:
> Last night I dreamt I was visiting my father's home, and Timothy Rue
> was there... only Timothy Rue was invisible. I also thought it was
> perfectly natural for Timothy Rue to be invisible. He lay on my father's
> couch, got himself wrapped up in a blanket, and accidentally fell to the
> floor. Then his hand started showing. I said "Timothy Rue, your hand is
> showing". Then I woke up.
> This is the weirdest CSAM-related dream (OK, OK, the only CSAM-related
> dream) I've had so far.
Have you forgotten to take you medication yesterday, Joona?
--
Uffe Holst
John Burns
>was there... only Timothy Rue was invisible. I also thought it was
>perfectly natural for Timothy Rue to be invisible. He lay on my father's
>couch, got himself wrapped up in a blanket, and accidentally fell to the
>floor. Then his hand started showing. I said "Timothy Rue, your hand is
>showing". Then I woke up.
>This is the weirdest CSAM-related dream (OK, OK, the only CSAM-related
>dream) I've had so far.
Yikes, that ain't a dream, it's a nightmare ;)
But when you start to dream about c.s.a.m maybe it's time to ease up on
usenet for a bit?
Timothy Rue
>Last night I dreamt I was visiting my father's home, and Timothy Rue
>was there... only Timothy Rue was invisible. I also thought it was
>perfectly natural for Timothy Rue to be invisible. He lay on my father's
>couch, got himself wrapped up in a blanket, and accidentally fell to the
>floor. Then his hand started showing. I said "Timothy Rue, your hand is
>showing". Then I woke up.
>This is the weirdest CSAM-related dream (OK, OK, the only CSAM-related
>dream) I've had so far.
hmmm, casually within the house of he who is your maker. Wrapped up in a
blanket of christian and maybe a touch of jewish religion coverings that
entangles me enough in trying to get comfortable. Upon falling off the
couch due to the entanglement, my hand comes out from within the blanket
to protect me from the short fall.
In hindsight, there has been this matter of Jesus Christ, a saviour, and
things I have said. (i.e. The saviour is not comming for he doesn't want
to take your self esteam away from you, doesn't want you to become lazy,
spoiled and again evil, and I'm sure many other things I have said that
in the eyes of some here in this newsgroups, aren't what they preceive
their saviour to be. Even things I've said regarding father physics and
mother nature, the unavoidable checks and balances. Not to mention the
nines action constants we all uses and the self reflective potential of
these in use through computers. etc..)
Then comes along an act of death and destruction, a fall of two towers
dealing with world trade. And the religion of those acting this tragedy
out is said to be muslim or at least a religion being used as an excuse.
Point being that the religion of muslim is now brought to the attention
of the world.
Having for the first time in my life read the koran just a few nights ago,
and compairing it's content to things I have communicated over the years,
I'm not at all supprised that in becomming unentangled from that blanket,
I appear to be muslim and visable. As it seem that both christianity and
judism might be fluffy cover distortions of muslim.
Or maybe in the house of God, my hand shows?
But I gotta ask, did I have anything in my hand, like the key to the
christain described bottomless pit, so that I might close it up and lock
it? Or would that be part of the invisable security blanket allowing me to
be lazy enough to be lying around on your fathers couch and floor?
:)
or maybe killfiles don't work, people see my hand, even when they don't
want to.
:)
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<
William F. Maddock
>:)
Very interesting, Tim. What I have found *more* interesting lately is
Isaiah 30. Oh, and before anyone jumps on it, Judaism and Christianity
cannot possibly be distortions of Islam since both existed *before*
Islam was begun in around AD 600. We now have a complete scroll of the
Book of Isaiah from the time of Christ. While I have not seen it myself,
several in my Sunday School class have seen it, including the
instructor, who is an archeaologist, and who is involved with digs in
Jordan---Dr. W. Harold Mare.
Anyway, back to Chapter 30 of Isaiah. It is a prophecy that has close
resemblance to our time, right down to "the day the towers fall".
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 4-Oct-1 21:06:28 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
1 Chronicles 1:8 The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put and Canaan.
John Burns
>>Last night I dreamt I was visiting my father's home, and Timothy Rue
>>was there... only Timothy Rue was invisible. I also thought it was
>>perfectly natural for Timothy Rue to be invisible. He lay on my father's
>>couch, got himself wrapped up in a blanket, and accidentally fell to the
>>floor. Then his hand started showing. I said "Timothy Rue, your hand is
>>showing". Then I woke up.
>>This is the weirdest CSAM-related dream (OK, OK, the only CSAM-related
>>dream) I've had so far.
>hmmm, casually within the house of he who is your maker. Wrapped up in a
>blanket of christian and maybe a touch of jewish religion coverings that
>entangles me enough in trying to get comfortable. Upon falling off the
>couch due to the entanglement, my hand comes out from within the blanket
>to protect me from the short fall.
No, that's not what he said.
>:)
>:)
Tim what is this rambling about religion to do with the original post? The guy
had a dream in which you appeared - simple really, no mention of religion or
God/Saviours - these are subjects which you have brought up for your own purposes
and then proceeded to make assumptions on. Arguing with oneself is rather silly,
if not schizophrenic.
Timothy Rue
[snip - see thread!]
>Very interesting, Tim. What I have found *more* interesting lately is
>Isaiah 30. Oh, and before anyone jumps on it, Judaism and Christianity
>cannot possibly be distortions of Islam since both existed *before*
>Islam was begun in around AD 600.
Hmmm, If Bill Gates had only been so wise, we'd only had version 1 or
2 of windows? Maybe Commodore wouldn't have given us AOS3.0?
How about backward compatability? Could have the Jews (MS) wrote custom
hardware hitting code, for their personal use? And Christians (Amiga), did
they forget to fully debug there work, perhaps at least enough to see it
wasn't a complete package, fully integrated?
Maybe it's time to recompile monolithic linux? But in any case Islam is
backward compatable, so far as core values go.
Ok, so maybe the perfect god would have gotten it right the first time,
only he gave us free will and told us to use our hand to write down his
words. And how many have mis-interpreted the VIC?
> We now have a complete scroll of the
>Book of Isaiah from the time of Christ. While I have not seen it myself,
>several in my Sunday School class have seen it, including the
>instructor, who is an archeaologist, and who is involved with digs in
>Jordan---Dr. W. Harold Mare.
>Anyway, back to Chapter 30 of Isaiah. It is a prophecy that has close
>resemblance to our time, right down to "the day the towers fall".
Oh how I often find chapters and verses of the bible overlay, like in
looking at communications written on clear plastic sheets, stacked.
http://www.bartleby.com/108/23/29.html verse 1-12, verse 16
http://www.bartleby.com/108/23/30.html verse 8 - 14
20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of
affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more,
but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
21 and thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way,
walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the
left.
25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill,
rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the
towers fall.
verse 26-27
28 and his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of
the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be
a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.
Hmmm, "causing them to err"..... sifting to find the Vanity bridle...
sifting is a process of extracing a value from more than just that value.
In this case the value extracted is Vanity. The Value that is then used
to stear the words spoken by the people. Words of vanity caused them to
err.
So what was the rest, that was sifted out, discarded?
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20413.677T968T12754314threeseas%40earthlink.net
Timothy Rue
>>want to.
>>:)
>Tim what is this rambling about religion to do with the original post? The
>guy had a dream in which you appeared - simple really, no mention of religion
>or God/Saviours - these are subjects which you have brought up for your own
>purposes and then proceeded to make assumptions on. Arguing with oneself is
>rather silly, if not schizophrenic.
And then there are those who don't use kill files...but still only see
just the part they want (vanity?).
Just how old are you John? (2)
Had you been around longer you might better understand. Given the past
where so many have stated "You're not christ Tim" when I have never made
such a claim or denied being christ but have responded, "Why aren't you?"
and in rare cases adding "too".
And now, a possibility that others can understand, can figure it out.
Jews preceive Christ as a Teacher, though insignificant. But then why
aren't you a teacher of God's Laws?
The christians preceive Christ as the Saviour, but one who also taught
others to follow the laws of God like he does (giving example), though
even his apostles (sp?) failed him and themselves. Is this why you are
not a teacher of Gods Laws?
Islam is about honoring the laws of God. They see Jesus as a profit
(spelling incorrect) following Gods Laws. So do you? Are you Christ like?
.
.
.
.
Well?
What does this have to do with csam? It is here where so many have made
the statement "Tim, you are not christ." And it is here in csam, where you
are like a small dog following around my feet trying to trip me, barking
at my heals for bits of food to chew on. To small to handle the whole
steak, for you haven't been here long enough to see it wasn't I who
started the association of christ to I. Though this is not the only place
this association has happened by the hands of others, shall I address the
association in someplace it has not been made?
A teacher gives you homework, do you not take your study proof back to
them, to be graded?
John Burns
>>>want to.
>>>:)
>>Tim what is this rambling about religion to do with the original post? The
>>guy had a dream in which you appeared - simple really, no mention of
>>religion or God/Saviours - these are subjects which you have brought up for
>>your own purposes and then proceeded to make assumptions on. Arguing with
>>oneself is rather silly, if not schizophrenic.
>And then there are those who don't use kill files...but still only see
>just the part they want (vanity?).
Vanity? Check the archives I've posted quite a bit recently to this group,
csaa and csag. Trying to insinuate that I am only seeing your posts is neither
truthful nor honest is it. It would appear that it is your vanity which is
apparant in assuming that I only have Łeyes for you". Thankfully, nothing could
be further from the truth as I have a life outside of these newsgroups. I don't
normally use a killfile as I only download the threads which I am either
interested in reading or already actively taking part in.
>Just how old are you John? (2)
42, Though I hardly see the relevance.
>Had you been around longer you might better understand. Given the past
>where so many have stated "You're not christ Tim" when I have never made
>such a claim or denied being christ but have responded, "Why aren't you?"
>and in rare cases adding "too".
Oh I think I've been around long enough.
>And now, a possibility that others can understand, can figure it out.
>Jews preceive Christ as a Teacher, though insignificant. But then why
>aren't you a teacher of God's Laws?
>The christians preceive Christ as the Saviour, but one who also taught
>others to follow the laws of God like he does (giving example), though
>even his apostles (sp?) failed him and themselves. Is this why you are
>not a teacher of Gods Laws?
>Islam is about honoring the laws of God. They see Jesus as a profit
>(spelling incorrect) following Gods Laws. So do you? Are you Christ like?
>.
>.
>.
>.
>Well?
Actually the question is irrelevent since I am an atheist and therefore do not
subscribe to any religious beliefs/fairy tales. However, on reflection one of
the reasons why some may use this analogy is that you have yet to admit that you
are wrong in any of the claims which you make and since by definition "to err
is human" by never being wrong one must assume that you are "above" the normal
human state or to put it another way "Godlike".
>What does this have to do with csam? It is here where so many have made
>the statement "Tim, you are not christ." And it is here in csam, where you
>are like a small dog following around my feet trying to trip me, barking
>at my heals for bits of food to chew on. To small to handle the whole
>steak, for you haven't been here long enough to see it wasn't I who
>started the association of christ to I. Though this is not the only place
>this association has happened by the hands of others, shall I address the
>association in someplace it has not been made?
But whether or not others have likened you thus in the past is neither here nor
there. As I pointed out it is you who brought the subject of religion into _this_
thread - two wrongs don't make a right, Tim. If you don't like the analogy others
have made in the past fine - but why rekindle it.
Furthermore since I joined this thread before you it would seem that your accusation
that I am following you around is just another of those little untruths which you
like to use
>A teacher gives you homework, do you not take your study proof back to
>them, to be graded?
Yes of course one does but you are neither in actuality, nor in capability, My Teacher.
Timothy Rue
>>>>or maybe killfiles don't work, people see my hand, even when they don't
>>>>want to.
>>>>:)
>>>Tim what is this rambling about religion to do with the original post? The
>>>guy had a dream in which you appeared - simple really, no mention of
>>>religion or God/Saviours - these are subjects which you have brought up
>>>for your own purposes and then proceeded to make assumptions on. Arguing
>>>with oneself is rather silly, if not schizophrenic.
>>And then there are those who don't use kill files...but still only see
>>just the part they want (vanity?).
>Vanity? Check the archives I've posted quite a bit recently to this group,
>csaa and csag. Trying to insinuate that I am only seeing your posts is
>neither truthful nor honest is it.
Trying to bury your crap little doggie?
Timothy Rue
[snip]
>Actually the question is irrelevent since I am an atheist and therefore do
>not subscribe to any religious beliefs/fairy tales. However, on reflection
>one of the reasons why some may use this analogy is that you have yet to
>admit that you are wrong in any of the claims which you make and since by
>definition "to err is human" by never being wrong one must assume that you
>are "above" the normal human state or to put it another way "Godlike".
Being Atheist neither let's you off the hook or pronounces you perfect.
If you'd been around long enough, or have the ability to honestly
comprehend what has been communicated, that you indeed have read, you'd
know this:
Neo.................tech
[snip]
>But whether or not others have likened you thus in the past is neither here
>nor there. As I pointed out it is you who brought the subject of religion
>into _this_ thread - two wrongs don't make a right, Tim. If you don't like
>the analogy others have made in the past fine - but why rekindle it.
Actually here (in this newsgroup) and there (in the archives of this
newsgroup) is precisely the fact of which even you have contributed.
But then why are you pursuing it here, if this is what you "believe" about
what you think I think? If it is so wrong, why are you continuing it here?
Atheist or not, you seem to be just as capable of distortion and
dishonesty as anyone else. For your words above are certainly proof of
such intent.
>Furthermore since I joined this thread before you it would seem that your
>accusation that I am following you around is just another of those little
>untruths which you like to use
And you say you are 42? Ok, exactly where was my first appearance in this
thread? Or is such a thing invisiable to you?
>>A teacher gives you homework, do you not take your study proof back to
>>them, to be graded?
>Yes of course one does but you are neither in actuality, nor in capability,
>My Teacher.
can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn. A student only by choice.
you see what you want to John, and your reason shows within your comments.
Being Atheist is no excuse to try and deceive, John. It only means that
you have another word or phrase for "laws of god" that you are subjected
to. Father Physics and Mother Nature just are, no matter how well you
recognize them or not.
Tell me who you think I am and what my "religion" is.
So many in the computer industry seem to want to say that the consumer
doesn't want to program, yet the genuine science of computing is not one
of creating such false biased contraints, but rather identifying and
applying the computer logic that removes such false biased constraints.
Perhaps the only support the industry gets for such a broad constrained,
no exception handling, perspective, is that which is generated by applying
over-complexity in programming language creation. Making certain that most
users don't have the time to learn how to use it, and much less, would
want to use such over-complexity.
So tell me John, who do you think I am and what do you think my "religion"
is?
John Burns
>[snip]
>>Actually the question is irrelevent since I am an atheist and therefore do
>>not subscribe to any religious beliefs/fairy tales. However, on reflection
>>one of the reasons why some may use this analogy is that you have yet to
>>admit that you are wrong in any of the claims which you make and since by
>>definition "to err is human" by never being wrong one must assume that you
>>are "above" the normal human state or to put it another way "Godlike".
>Being Atheist neither let's you off the hook or pronounces you perfect.
Actually in the context of the question to which I was replying my answer was
quite valid. Also I never, nor have I ever, stated that I was perfect. Why
do you insist on making these statements, eh?
>If you'd been around long enough, or have the ability to honestly
>comprehend what has been communicated, that you indeed have read, you'd
>know this:
>Neo.................tech
If you had any grasp of the language in which you write you would know that this
is not a valid sentence or statement, in fact it's just a peice of gibberish.
>[snip]
>>But whether or not others have likened you thus in the past is neither here
>>nor there. As I pointed out it is you who brought the subject of religion
>>into _this_ thread - two wrongs don't make a right, Tim. If you don't like
>>the analogy others have made in the past fine - but why rekindle it.
>Actually here (in this newsgroup) and there (in the archives of this
>newsgroup) is precisely the fact of which even you have contributed.
IIRC you are referring to the "Is Tim really 2000 years old" thread - come on
now Tim can't you see that this was a joke - no-one really believes you are any
sort of messianic figure. I believe it was sarcasm i.e we were taking the
p**s out of you.
>But then why are you pursuing it here, if this is what you "believe" about
>what you think I think? If it is so wrong, why are you continuing it here?
Oh right, Tim said something so best not critisise even if it is wrong.
>Atheist or not, you seem to be just as capable of distortion and
>dishonesty as anyone else. For your words above are certainly proof of
>such intent.
Yeah that's why you snipped the questions to which I was replying so that you
could concoct an argument out of context to suit yourself. However given your
track record for mistruth and deception in arguments I'll take your comments
as a compliment from a master of the art.
>>Furthermore since I joined this thread before you it would seem that your
>>accusation that I am following you around is just another of those little
>>untruths which you like to use
>And you say you are 42? Ok, exactly where was my first appearance in this
>thread? Or is such a thing invisiable to you?
A quick check of the archive shows that this thread was started by Joona on 2 Oct
I posted to it on the same date and you first posted on the 3 Oct. So what is
hard to understand about that proving that I did not follow you here. An attempt
at deception was it Tim? Oh and since you question my age I was born in Dec '58
so go figure.
>>>A teacher gives you homework, do you not take your study proof back to
>>>them, to be graded?
>>Yes of course one does but you are neither in actuality, nor in capability,
>>My Teacher.
>can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn. A student only by choice.
Firstly, you have to have something worthy of being learnt and secondly all
students are so through choice at least in my experience.
>you see what you want to John, and your reason shows within your comments.
At least I do not ignore that which I would rather not see or face up to.
>Being Atheist is no excuse to try and deceive, John. It only means that
>you have another word or phrase for "laws of god" that you are subjected
>to. Father Physics and Mother Nature just are, no matter how well you
>recognize them or not.
Physics governs everything including nature and apart from being genderless it
only shows your lack of knowledge that you should quote these as being separate
entities. Funny but this latest example of your lack of knowledge somewhat fails
to amaze me.
>Tell me who you think I am and what my "religion" is.
I actually don't care what your religion is. Who you are is a different question
I think you are a misguided individual who due to lack of education is unable or
unwilling to accept any fact which contradicts the beliefs which you hold.
>So many in the computer industry seem to want to say that the consumer
>doesn't want to program, yet the genuine science of computing is not one
>of creating such false biased contraints, but rather identifying and
>applying the computer logic that removes such false biased constraints.
Your view, and rather a sweeping generalisation which of course you are unable
to substantiate as usual.
>Perhaps the only support the industry gets for such a broad constrained,
>no exception handling, perspective, is that which is generated by applying
>over-complexity in programming language creation. Making certain that most
>users don't have the time to learn how to use it, and much less, would
>want to use such over-complexity.
As has been pointed out most users don't want to program they just want a tool
to use. Anyway, stop bleating about over complexity of programming languages; if
that's the case then create a language that's not complex - shouldn't be a problem
for an ace programmer like you.
>So tell me John, who do you think I am and what do you think my "religion"
>is?
Doh, bit silly posing the same question twice in the same post isn't it.
Okay I've answered your questions so how about some reciprocation. Where is
the proof that aliens are living on Earth as you previously asserted, (albeit in
a different thread), but then refused to substantiate?
John Burns
>>>>>or maybe killfiles don't work, people see my hand, even when they don't
>>>>>want to.
>>>>>:)
>>>>Tim what is this rambling about religion to do with the original post?
>>>>The guy had a dream in which you appeared - simple really, no mention of
>>>>religion or God/Saviours - these are subjects which you have brought up
>>>>for your own purposes and then proceeded to make assumptions on. Arguing
>>>>with oneself is rather silly, if not schizophrenic.
>>>And then there are those who don't use kill files...but still only see
>>>just the part they want (vanity?).
>>Vanity? Check the archives I've posted quite a bit recently to this group,
>>csaa and csag. Trying to insinuate that I am only seeing your posts is
>>neither truthful nor honest is it.
>Trying to bury your crap little doggie?
Tut, Tut, language Tim I don't think your ISP would like that. Must check their
rules one of these days. Actually the only "crap" which seems to appear with
regularity in this NG is that which is generated by that overworked and obviously
lonely brain cell which inhabits you cranial cavity.
Timothy Rue
>>Trying to bury your crap little doggie?
>Tut, Tut, language Tim I don't think your ISP would like that.
what makes you think that?
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<
Timothy Rue
>Actually in the context of the question to which I was replying my answer was
> quite valid.
Are you being paid to troll or are you doing it out of some obsession you
have about me?
John Burns
>>Actually in the context of the question to which I was replying my answer
>>was
>> quite valid.
>Are you being paid to troll or are you doing it out of some obsession you
>have about me?
I asked you one question but as usual you are unwilling to answer. If you can't
answer then by default you must concede the point which of course means you are
admitting you were wrong (albeit without the moral courage of doing so publically).
As I pointed out I joined this thread the day before you so I can hardly have been
trolling for your posts, unless you think I am imbued with some sort of precognitive
powers. Sorry to disillusion you Tim but you are not an obsession of mine, you just
ain't that interesting.
As always you actually ignore _all_ the evidence and only use that which suits your
argument/purpose. If I were really after you then why didn't I attack _all_ the posts
which you have made in other threads over the last week or so, eh? So that you need not
put 2+2 together and come up with 5 as usual I'll tell you. I didn't attack these posts
because either, I didn't disagree with the comment you made, couldn't be bothered or
because I was not interested in following that thread.
Grow up Tim. Post sensible stuff and you won't be challenged by me or, for that matter,
others.
John Burns
>>>Trying to bury your crap little doggie?
>>Tut, Tut, language Tim I don't think your ISP would like that.
>what makes you think that?
Most ISPs have such rules in their Acceptable Use Policies so I assume that your's
would be no different.
William F. Maddock
>>>:)
In dealing *honestly* with Christ, because of His claims you are left
with only three options: Lunatic, Liar, or Lord. Because He claimed to
be God in the flesh, which, if not true, is blasphemy, He cannot be
honestly treated as simply a great man, or prophet, or teacher or any of
the other condescending attributions frequently heaped upon Him by those
who know no better. He can only be *(a)* a lunatic (if He only *thought*
He was God, but was mistaken---which would be a God complex), or *(b)* a
liar (if He knew that He was not really God, but claimed to be anyway,
in which case He is violating God's law and cannot be the great man,
teacher, prophet, what have you), or *(c)* Lord (i.e. just exactly what
He claims to be---God in the flesh).
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 30-Oct-1 22:53:24 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Genesis 8:21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart:
"Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though# every
inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I
destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
Timothy Rue
>In dealing *honestly* with Christ, because of His claims you are left
>with only three options: Lunatic, Liar, or Lord. Because He claimed to
>be God in the flesh, which, if not true, is blasphemy, He cannot be
>honestly treated as simply a great man, or prophet, or teacher or any of
>the other condescending attributions frequently heaped upon Him by those
>who know no better. He can only be *(a)* a lunatic (if He only *thought*
>He was God, but was mistaken---which would be a God complex), or *(b)* a
>liar (if He knew that He was not really God, but claimed to be anyway,
>in which case He is violating God's law and cannot be the great man,
>teacher, prophet, what have you), or *(c)* Lord (i.e. just exactly what
>He claims to be---God in the flesh).
The second most popular religion in the world does not believe any of
those three. And that's not Judaism either, it's islam.
Then there is the probability of human distortions of what really happened.
Those who made Jesus out to be something that he was not.
But in any case this divide and conqure of gods domain... The big loser
in the current events is highly likley to be the god concept. For it
doesn't seem that god is strong enough to keep his domain together. I
guess that is why some preceive the current events as the "holy war." The
battle between believing in the god concept or not. But mostly a battle
between those who all agree on the one god concept, just not the details.
I think being human allows us all to say NO to this war and it's fuel, to
pass the test as to weither or not we are ready to enter the civilization
of the universe, as a speices. Where SETI will then understand why they
haven't found any results. Or would you like your address added to the
Anthrax mailing list? (a question in analogy to get you to think about
what may really be, that some call heaven, but where the god concept
prevents you from entering, or a test as to whether or not you are ready
and get to enter.)
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>
> >In dealing *honestly* with Christ, because of His claims you are left
> >with only three options: Lunatic, Liar, or Lord. Because He claimed to
> >be God in the flesh, which, if not true, is blasphemy, He cannot be
> >honestly treated as simply a great man, or prophet, or teacher or any of
> >the other condescending attributions frequently heaped upon Him by those
> >who know no better. He can only be *(a)* a lunatic (if He only *thought*
> >He was God, but was mistaken---which would be a God complex), or *(b)* a
> >liar (if He knew that He was not really God, but claimed to be anyway,
> >in which case He is violating God's law and cannot be the great man,
> >teacher, prophet, what have you), or *(c)* Lord (i.e. just exactly what
> >He claims to be---God in the flesh).
>
> The second most popular religion in the world does not believe any of
> those three. And that's not Judaism either, it's islam.
>
> Then there is the probability of human distortions of what really happened.
> Those who made Jesus out to be something that he was not.
>
> But in any case this divide and conqure of gods domain... The big loser
> in the current events is highly likley to be the god concept. For it
> doesn't seem that god is strong enough to keep his domain together. I
> guess that is why some preceive the current events as the "holy war." The
> battle between believing in the god concept or not. But mostly a battle
> between those who all agree on the one god concept, just not the details.
God's rolling his eyes at the world, saying "don't even THINK about
bringing ME into this mess, I had nothing to do with this!"
> I think being human allows us all to say NO to this war and it's fuel,
We wern't asked. The war just "is" since the towers fell.
>to
> pass the test as to weither or not we are ready to enter the civilization
> of the universe, as a speices.
To pass that test, we must first be able to resist and defeat internal
infections, just as we quarantine the sick untill they have defeated
their infection. We have "cells" in our "body" that are killing us from
the inside, and we're fighting the infection.
We can hardly be respected in an intergalactic (oh gawd I should have
set the x-noarchive bit!) community if others see our world as infected
unless they see us fighting the infection. They will steer clear of us
and consider us diseased with the "terrorist" virus.
It's not pretty, but sometimes we just have to hunker down and send in
the T-cells, in order to remain healthy.
> Where SETI will then understand why they
> haven't found any results. Or would you like your address added to the
> Anthrax mailing list?
I'd rather fight for a world where my children don't have to be afraid
of that.
Timothy Rue
>God's rolling his eyes at the world, saying "don't even THINK about
>bringing ME into this mess, I had nothing to do with this!"
Oh, how convient for god, sound like he's a ass to ignore.
>> I think being human allows us all to say NO to this war and it's fuel,
>We wern't asked. The war just "is" since the towers fell.
Well if we didn't do it and god didn't do it, then who did? Or do you
think planes fly into buildings on thir own?
William F. Maddock
Some (most) people distort what God has said to fit what they want to
believe. Others (few) consider it more important to know God than to
feel good, so they take the risk of not distorting what God has said,
but take it as accurate and correct, then explore the depths of what
they find, and they find that the most important thing that God has said
is that you (that would be every individual that has ever been born of
the seed of a man, or ever will be) can't make it to Heaven under your
own power because you're not good enough. To do that you would have to
be perfectly sinless, and no one, born of the seed of a man, has ever
been, or ever will be that. All have fallen short of the glory of God.
Each of us has turned to our own way, which is not God's way. This is
called sin. For this sin a price must be paid, and that price is death
(which is to say seperation from God). This presents a problem, a
problem for which we have no solution, and can have no solution, because
to enter into Heaven (where God is), the price for our sin must be paid.
If we pay our own price, we cannot be where God is because we must be
seperated from God because of our sin. But God has the solution, and He
has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that He
could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of seperation
from God for us, so that we don't have to. His sacrifice is offered for
us so that we don't have to pay the price for our own sin. But for that
sacrifice to be valid in our life, we must accept it personally, asking
God's forgiveness, and asking Jesus to come into our hearts and take
over the throne of our lives. Once this is done, we are "born again" or
"born from above" by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit in our
lives. This is evidenced outwardly by our changing lives, which we then
begin to live for God, and not for ourselves. But Jesus says it best in
John Chapter 3, Verses 1-21, when He is speaking to Nicodemus, who later
became a believer.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 1-Nov-1 19:25:09 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Matthew 15:16 "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 01-Nov-01 00:28:26 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>
> >God's rolling his eyes at the world, saying "don't even THINK about
> >bringing ME into this mess, I had nothing to do with this!"
>
> Oh, how convient for god, sound like he's a ass to ignore.
Who said he's ignoring? We are our own responsibility, that doesn't
necessarily mean he's apethetic.
> >> I think being human allows us all to say NO to this war and it's fuel,
>
> >We wern't asked. The war just "is" since the towers fell.
>
> Well if we didn't do it and god didn't do it, then who did? Or do you
> think planes fly into buildings on thir own?
"Them", this is not a one sided issue. We are not one with those that
wish us dead.
Eric Haines
> with only three options: Lunatic, Liar, or Lord. Because He claimed to
> be God in the flesh, which, if not true, is blasphemy, He cannot be
> honestly treated as simply a great man, or prophet, or teacher or any of
> the other condescending attributions frequently heaped upon Him by those
> who know no better. He can only be *(a)* a lunatic (if He only *thought*
> He was God, but was mistaken---which would be a God complex), or *(b)* a
> liar (if He knew that He was not really God, but claimed to be anyway,
> in which case He is violating God's law and cannot be the great man,
> teacher, prophet, what have you), or *(c)* Lord (i.e. just exactly what
> He claims to be---God in the flesh).
>
> --
> William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Actually, all three options are moot. In dealing *honestly* with
Christ--and I mean 100% brutal, eyes-wide-open, what *is*, not what we
*want* honesty--we have exactly one option, which is to admit that
Christ is a largely fictional creation, based on a real person yes,
but fictional nonetheless. Even well-known people from 100 years ago
or 200 years ago are fictionalized to a large degree and are known
more for their myths than for their realities, except in boring
biographies that nobody wants to read because they expose the mundane
truth rather than the legends we prefer to believe.
--Eric
Timothy Rue
[snip - see thread]
>...... We are our own responsibility,......
>"Them", this is not a one sided issue. We are not one with those that
>wish us dead.
What species are them, that they are not "we"?
If you think it's about land ownership and control, you are wrong. If you
think it is about religion, you are again wrong.
It's about money, who has it, who doesn't and who's controlling it to be
such.
The Land issue is.....well gods land, and that is without doubt or
arguement. A place where all three one god religions come together.
The religion issue is....an extreamist excuse to try and justify ones
wrong doings in their minds as being acceptable to god.
But the facts of money is why the WTC was hit, plane and simple.
go to http://www.pbs.org and search on "Trillion dollar bet", read the
transcript for yourself. Then do some more web searching for articles by
major news media on the damage such wrongful and what should be illeagle
(in terms of gambling - card counting) stock market manipulation has cause
the muslim communities.
Once you get it you will realize that there are those who have gotten
pissed off, JUST LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE. You may even realize alot more,
about how similiar they are to we. Hell, the US has cause alot more than
5000 innocent to be killed.
Ultimately there is something of vigilanty justice being attempted. And
who can blame such a group for wanting to defend a peoples without enough
power to be honesty heard? What they did was wrong, but if it was their
last resort, which apparently it was considering they died for it, then
you better damn well hear their message.
If you don't hear it, enough don't hear it, and take corrective actions,
then you can bet you ass, it will get worse. Maybe even bad enough to put
your head between your legs and kiss your ass good bye.
The trillion dollar bet isn't but a fraction of the damage done in the
1990s. Clinton and Greenspan created a false economy to the tune of 40
trillion.
The only reason China is the only country not suffering economically is
because they didn't take part in the world stock market game and further
isolated themselves from such damning ways. This makes them the exception
to the rule, proof of the rule.
Only I don't think lil'bush is intelligent enough to tell the difference
between what's wrong and China's not being effected. For it seems that
there is this overall feel of trying to turn the US into a communist
state. You know, short sighted follow the leader, or in this case, the
uneffected surviver (China).
So you think you are better than an innocent starving Afgan or muslim?
So what's the god concept got to do with that? An excuse most the public
will force themselves to accept, in order to give themselves some sense
of rationality?
to make this realtive to this newsgroup:
MS is in essence, getting off with a slap on their public viewable hand
as they behind the public teach the government how to better apply war
tactics in the business of politics. Consistant with..........putting on
a mask to hide communisim methodologies.
helping to insure Amiga will be nothing more than a controlled experiment,
at best.
Ultimately the Amiga curse is one of wanting your cake and eating it too.
Timothy Rue
>>whether or not you are ready and get to enter.)
>.... the most important thing that God has said is that you can't make
>it to Heaven under your own power because you're not good enough.
God doesn't have much confidence in himself in regards to what he creates,
does he?
Actually it was weak doubting man who said that. An invention of the
controlling, manipulating power of guilt that was discovered upon mans
use of consciousness.
God said go forth and multiply, and in doing so we would evolved in
numbers to have need to solve population related problems for ourselves.
In doing this we are doing exactly what was intended by the creator.
The intent is to expand upon what all exists in existance. To do this we
have to expand our knowledge base, scope comprehension and awareness of
the reality we have been given by the creator(s).
Perhaps our tasks is to prove all things are possible.
But guilt only allows human manipulation by those taking advantage of
others. Not really the optimum performance methology to use.
The human body and society corruption is a great constant constraint on
the soul. You nor god can hold it against a soul, that they didn't do
something they weren't allowed to do.
If we are not perfect, then it is because we are not suppose to be.
If we were perfect, what would there be to do? Perhaps we are perfect in
having inherent motive to do, to create, to solve or overcome problems?
Though I have expressed the following in a differ way, here in the
internet, let me say it this way:
I once had a talk with what you call god. Not your everyday one way
communication mind you, but what those who claim to seek the kabballah
experience have said about their experience with becomming one with the
creator. You know, where you actually get answers. Or maybe you don't
know. Anyway, I wanted to know the truth. Not just a passing fancy or
question but a growing intentional intense focused need that span every
particle of my body and the full essence of my soul.
In other words, if it wasn't god, then there ain't one, absolutely no if's
ands or buts about it. Anyone who wants to argue that will be directly
telling me that they don't understand "if it wasn't god, then there ain't
one, absolutely no if's ands or buts about it."
Is there life after death? I don't know, but the soul continues to exist
after the physical body is dead. Or at least that is what I preceived,
saw. Maybe it was my own mind playing tricks on me, but for sure I'll find
out one day when I die, as everyone will. It was like a krilian aura
photograph, but without any equipment and live, 3d moving, not some static
image on a two diminsional piece of photo paper.
That's enough of my telling you about that part and a great deal happened,
was communicated, set in motion, but now on to the more relative issues.
In this need to know the truth, there was little if any information about
sin or even history communicated in the answer. Most all was in regards to
creation, understanding, knowledge, power of the mind. The only time
corruption and history came up was when I realized that all this knowlegde
I was receiving was in effect useless to me because society, of which I
had no choice but to live in, was so mess up, so distorted, that I knew I
would not be able to hold on to, maintain the knowledge for very long.
Inherently I understood that the depth of society distortions was a result
of errors being bread into human beliefs over a long course of history.
Error upon error upon error, etc..
So you see I'm not interested in the fabrication of guilt and it's power
to be used to manipulating us. I'm interested in creation, specifically
improving the ability for us to create thru the most versatile tool we
have made, the abstraction manipulation and calculating tool of computers.
to bad enough don't share that interest with me to actually do it.
for nobody really gains anything additional from what is not done.
The beast is man, the stone image of the beast is the computer (which your
work is reflected in) and the mark is of course the UPC bar code, where
no man can buy or sell cept he who has the mark...etc...bla bla bla
To put the beast into the bottomless, endless pit of deception, you first
have to become master over it. And that is not something that is going to
happen unless you deal with the beast and it's image. Unless you deal with
yourself objectively. Problem is, being objective about yourself is
inherently impossible due to your natural and undeniable subjectivity to
yourself. You can however, much easier and objectively deal with your
image, your reflection, and in doing so become more indirectly aware of
you and how to better fine tune you.
Oh, and one more thing. The massive amount of knowledge I received, but
was unable to maintain. I took a few mental notes about simplicity and
knowledge navigational mapping, during the communication. Where many years
later I came across some former IE Dupont Scientist research that greatly
supports the simplicity, integration and knowledge expansion I experienced,
while also exposing the damage of human deception to that process.
If there is sin, it is deception, for all certainly pay the price so
greatly, that you do not even know the price you pay. You do not know,
what you do not have, so how can you know what you have lost?
Stop deceiving, learn what you lost by regaining it enough to see it.
Lose the flip flop sin bit of guilt. Don't wrongly impose upon another.
Just what are you good enough for?
William F. Maddock
Your opinion is based on the assumption that the New Testament
scriptures were written down that long after Jesus' time on earth, an
assumption which is not accurate. It *is* what liberal thinking
teachers, professors, etc. *want* you to believe, and will stridently
tell you is true, but it is not accurate. In fact the last book of the
Bible to be written down, Revelation, was written down in the same
century that Jesus walked the earth. Most (all but Revelation and
perhaps the Gospel of John) of the New Testament books were written down
while there were still many eyewitnesses around, any one of whom could
have called the hoax on the whole endeavor, but none of them did. Even
Josephus, a non-Christian historian, wrote about the events recounted
in the Bible as though they were obvious and well known---and he was not
a believer.
Of all of the people throughout history who have claimed to present a
pathway to God, the only one who still lives is Jesus. Only His tomb is
empty, because only He returned from the dead. The others are all still
very much dead and turned to dust.
It has often been said that a person who sincerely believes something
will die for that belief. The converse of this is that no one would die
for a belief that they knew was false, yet *all* of Jesus' disciples
died holding to their faith in Jesus as God the Son, except for the
Apostle John, who died of old age at around 100 years old, yet even he
was boiled in oil, but survived. These things can be verified outside of
the Bible.
Lee Strobel, formerly an investigative reporter (back when that meant
something good) for a Chicago newspaper exhaustively researched the
subject for about two years, because his wife had become a believer, and
he was trying to convince her that she was wrong. Years later, he went
back to his research and put it together into a book. That book is
called "The Case for Christ", and is still in print. It recounts his
research, including interviews he did during that research. The book is
well documented throughout and could allow an exhuastive research of
your own, should you elect to lay your claims on the line for the sake
of finding out what is really true and what is really a lie that has
been foisted upon you all of your life. I wish you a fruitful adventure.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 2-Nov-1 18:57:36 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Psalms 121:3 He will not let your foot slip---he who watches over you
will not slumber;
William F. Maddock
>On 01-Nov-01 20:46:41 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>>>whether or not you are ready and get to enter.)
>>.... the most important thing that God has said is that you can't make
>>it to Heaven under your own power because you're not good enough.
>God doesn't have much confidence in himself in regards to what he
>creates, does he?
Once you really do get to know God, you will understand that what has
happened on this earth is all part of His plan. I can't go into it now,
since I'm trying to be brief. But think about this: God fervently
desires you to love Him and know Him intimately, as intimately as you
know and love yourself. But love cannot be forced. Love must be a
choice, or it is not love. Since you must choose to love, there must be
a choice in order that you can choose to love. This means that there
must be a different option open to you---one that you reject in favor of
love. This is why the world in all of its imperfection is permitted to
continue, even as it spirals ever downward into ever more horrid
corruptions. Those that will spend eternity with God have truly chosen
love.
>Stop deceiving, learn what you lost by regaining it enough to see it.
>Lose the flip flop sin bit of guilt. Don't wrongly impose upon another.
>Just what are you good enough for?
I do not deceive, but speak the truth. The fact that you don't wish it
to be the truth doesn't stop it from being the truth.
Do you know the most incidious quality of rat poison? It is the fact
that it is 99% good wheat, but the poison is still there, and it will
still kill you. The being you encountered did nothing but spread slander
against God, clothed within enough truth to deceive you. He did this
because he *is* the deceiver. Satan will appear as an angel of light,
not as the dealer of darkness that he is. Who would follow him if he
appeared in his true form? He can only draw you away from the path to
God by deceiving you into following another path which seems good, but
which will end in your destruction. When God speaks to you He does not
deceive, but tells you the truth as painful as it may be. He does not
tell you that the path is going to be easy. No! He tells you that the
path is narrow and *HARD* to follow, but that He will be with you and
prevent you from falling off of the path.
If you will implore God---seeking Him with all of your heart, mind,
soul, and strength---to reveal Himself undeniably to you, He will do so.
So when you do this, keep your "eyes" peeled because very soon---in a
few moments, or hours, or days---something is going to happen through
which He will reveal Himself to you. Probably the best thing you could
do while you wait would be to pick up a Bible and read the Gospel of
John, asking God to open your spirit up to the truths within His Word.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 2-Nov-1 19:27:39 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
2 Samuel 17:9 Even now, he is hidden in a cave or some other place. If
he should attack your troops first, whoever hears about it will say,
`There has been a slaughter among the troops who follow Absalom.'
Eric Haines
> Lee Strobel, formerly an investigative reporter (back when that meant
> something good) for a Chicago newspaper exhaustively researched the
> subject for about two years, because his wife had become a believer, and
> he was trying to convince her that she was wrong. Years later, he went
> back to his research and put it together into a book. That book is
> called "The Case for Christ", and is still in print. It recounts his
> research, including interviews he did during that research. The book is
> well documented throughout and could allow an exhuastive research of
> your own, should you elect to lay your claims on the line for the sake
> of finding out what is really true and what is really a lie that has
> been foisted upon you all of your life. I wish you a fruitful adventure.
>
> --
> William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Perhaps one day you'll realize what I eventually came to
truly understand in the fullest sense of the word, which is that
eternal life of any sort, no matter how supposedly blissful, is the
worst fate imaginable. 99% of all religion attempts to reassure
people what when they die, they don't really die after all, but
continue to exist in some form or other. This is the biggest lie of
all, and it's part of a human-invented system of rewards and
punishments. i.e., if you're good you'll be rewarded, and if you're
bad you'll be punished. Christianity did attempt to short-circuit
this, by saying that merely being good isn't enough, but that you have
to be perfect. Which of course is not possible, so the only answer is
to buy into Christianity. An interesting experiment, but ultimately
it failed since there are hardly any practicing Christians today.
(Millions of people who practice various mutant forms of it while
still incorrectly retaining the name, yes.)
The most interesting argument I had regarding this sort of thing was
with an older gentleman, who also understood that eternal life is not
something to be desired, but his view was that it's inevitable (for
reasons I won't get into here), however, belief in God will save you
from it. He was never able to explain why, unfortunately for him,
because that's the only way I could possibly consider becoming a
"believer."
--Eric
Tparker
stl.net says...
This has always amused me to no end... That someone could actually SEE
these things happen, and not believe he was who he said he was! "Hey
look, he can walk on water!", "Yea? So what?" :/ I mean, it's one thing
if 'faith' is involved, and you are told the story, but to see it and
not, like, convert right away?
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 01-Nov-01 19:59:53 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>
> [snip - see thread]
>
> >...... We are our own responsibility,......
>
> >"Them", this is not a one sided issue. We are not one with those that
> >wish us dead.
>
> What species are them, that they are not "we"?
What does species have to do with anything? Our responsibility is to
defend ourselves and those that we are responsible for, from those that
wish us dead. Species has nothing to do with it. Even the single celled
Amoeba understands this, and will take action to defend it's cell walls
chemically and physically.
> If you think it's about land ownership and control, you are wrong. If you
> think it is about religion, you are again wrong.
Bingo, nothing to do with money, land or religion.
> It's about money, who has it, who doesn't and who's controlling it to be
> such.
Nope. There is no "about" to be understood, there is just a threat we
must take action to defend ourselves against. Anything else is
irrelevant to the situation lying at our feet.
This is a cancer within our species, if you insist on a species analogy.
The cancer threatens the existance of the rest of the body. Regardless
of how much you understand the cancer's motives, or how to prevent the
cancer, the cancer must be killed. You cannot co-exist with something
that wants you dead.
> The Land issue is.....well gods land, and that is without doubt or
> arguement. A place where all three one god religions come together.
>
> The religion issue is....an extreamist excuse to try and justify ones
> wrong doings in their minds as being acceptable to god.
>
> But the facts of money is why the WTC was hit, plane and simple.
Nonsense, I like money, I don't kill people.
> go to http://www.pbs.org and search on "Trillion dollar bet", read the
> transcript for yourself. Then do some more web searching for articles by
> major news media on the damage such wrongful and what should be illeagle
> (in terms of gambling - card counting) stock market manipulation has cause
> the muslim communities.
No, I really have no interest in the cancer's grievances. I want the
cancer removed. The cancer is a clear and present danger to the rest of
the body, and the cancer is killing the body. The cancer must die. The
cancer will die. Healthy cells can entertain me with their grievances if
they want, and I'll take an interest, but the cancer get's no audience
from me, just my T-cells locked and loaded on it's ass.
> Once you get it you will realize that there are those who have gotten
> pissed off, JUST LIKE YOU WOULD HAVE. You may even realize alot more,
> about how similiar they are to we. Hell, the US has cause alot more than
> 5000 innocent to be killed.
That comment highly annoys me. I would never kill for any reason other
than self defence.
> Ultimately there is something of vigilanty justice being attempted. And
> who can blame such a group
The entire planet can blame them.
> for wanting to defend
Blowing up the WTC is not "defending" anything, it's MURDER.
> a peoples without enough
> power to be honesty heard?
Pure unadulterated bullshit. We've been hearing them for years. If you
want to dedicate YOUR life to catering to the grievances and demands of
people you have nothing to do with, then YOU get off your ass and go
there and give them what they want. Me? I've got my own life to live,
and a responsibility to MY FAMILY, not some band of murderous criminals
over seas.
You're promoting the idea that if you don't have something you want,
running around murdering thousands of people is an understandable last
resort to those ends. It's not, except to those cancerous parts of our
being that must be killed so that we can survive.
> What they did was wrong, but if it was their
> last resort, which apparently it was considering they died for it, then
> you better damn well hear their message.
You'd better *damn well* not tell me I should listen to the message of
someone who just murdered 5000+ Americans! You think it's okay because
*THEY DIED FOR IT*??? ***WE*** died for it you ignorant moron! What the
hell is wrong with you??
> If you don't hear it, enough don't hear it, and take corrective actions,
> then you can bet you ass, it will get worse. Maybe even bad enough to put
> your head between your legs and kiss your ass good bye.
You sir, are an imbocile. There are people DYING right now to defend
your right to be an idiot on Usenet, while you equate 5000+ of THEM to
less than the lives of a handfull of murderers who killed them. I find
that highly offensive.
I've got news for you Timmy, we wern't BOMBING them when they hit us,
why would they stop just because we don't retaliate? They simply want us
dead, they are fueled by hate and murder.
> The trillion dollar bet isn't but a fraction of the damage done in the
> 1990s. Clinton and Greenspan created a false economy to the tune of 40
> trillion.
Money and Human life doesn't cancel out. That's the thinking of a
murderer.
> The only reason China is the only country not suffering economically is
> because they didn't take part in the world stock market game and further
> isolated themselves from such damning ways. This makes them the exception
> to the rule, proof of the rule.
China sells weapons to our enemies, god forbid our enemies favor China!
China has also stated "War with the United States is inevitable" on
numerous occasions, these are the exact words of their Minister of
Defence. Another warm and fuzzy situation in the making, nice attitude
their government has towards foreign relations!
> Only I don't think lil'bush is intelligent enough to tell the difference
> between what's wrong and China's not being effected. For it seems that
> there is this overall feel of trying to turn the US into a communist
> state. You know, short sighted follow the leader, or in this case, the
> uneffected surviver (China).
You are just so full of shit.
> So you think you are better than an innocent starving Afgan or muslim?
Only if THEY KILL when they are wanting, and I DONT, then YES! Moot
point, nobody was motivated by FOOD oh clueless one.
> So what's the god concept got to do with that? An excuse most the public
> will force themselves to accept, in order to give themselves some sense
> of rationality?
Why would they need to use religion as an excuse when idiots like you in
OUR OWN country are providing excuses for them right in the very
presence of those who's lives are threatened by them? They COUNT on
people like you thinking the way you do! YOU sir, are the salt they're
rubbing in our wounds.
Un f--ing believable, I simply cannot fathom we have Taliban
Sympathisers!!! Unreal.
*disclaimer* any insults cast by me in this post are local to this post
only, and are in response to being offended by the material. I don't
like being compared to the people who just MURDERED 5000+ of my
countrymen.
John Burns
>>On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
[SNIP]
>has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
>power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
>virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that He
>could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of seperation
>from God for us, so that we don't have to.
But Jesus was God. The Holy Trinity tells us that the Father the Son (Jesus)
and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. So where is the separation?
John Burns
[SNIP]
>Your opinion is based on the assumption that the New Testament
[SNIP]
Whether the texts on which the Bible were based were written shortly after or
centuries after Jesus' death is irrelevent. There is nothing attributed to him either
in the course his life took or in his supposed teachings as given in the New Testament
which were new even during his life. Many older religions had similar
life stories, in fact the Jesus story is almost a direct copy of some of these. This
leads to an obvious conclusion that if one believes in the New Testament story then
one must also believe that these previous "Pagan" gods were such also. In fact Justin
Martyr writing in the early 2nd century used these very similarities with pagan beliefs
to substantiate Jesus and Christianity. The fact that many believe the Christian creed
to be original is mainly due to later effort of the Church to bury such pagan beliefs.
As an example:
Aescullapius (Greek) - Born of a virgin (Coronis), cured cripples, paralytics etc.
following a violent death he ascended to heaven - Hmmm, sounds familiar.
Since the Immaculate Conception is the first miracle in the New Testament here are some
other gods and godesses born of Virgins and guess what, most of them were also born on 25
Dec:
Horus (Egypt) - born of the virgin Isis
Attis (Phrygia) - born of the virgin Nana
Romulus (Rome) - born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia
Fo-Hi (China) - born of a virgin (sorry can't be bothered digging out the name)
Krishna (India) - born of the virgin Devaki
Quetzalcoatle (Mexico) - another virgin birth
Mithra (aka The Unconquered Sun) At the ritual of the Birth of Mithra which was performed
on the 25 Dec the cry of "The virgin has brought forth" would be raised by the priests.
I can't be bothered listing any more of which there are dozens.
Here is an example of how the Christianity has used a pagan symbol for their own
(there are many others which I won't list):
Over the Greek god Dionysis (aka the first born of God) shrine were the letters I.H.S
which later was converted to Jesus Hominum Salvator.
If you wish to talk of researching I suggest you look into the Essenes (followers of Mithra)
and the Orphic cults whose theology is almost indistinquishable from the much later cult of
Christianity.
So what I am trying to say is that since all these religions/beliefs pre-date Christianity
(some by centuries) and are as well, if not better, authenticated than the New Testament
documents then by accepting one you must also accept all others Of course you may accept
any one over the others, (as was the case with Church's treatment of the documents known
collectively as the Apocryphal New Testament), but this would be purely a matter of
personal preference and as such belief/bias not evidence for your preferred beliefs
veracity.
It is interesting to note also that the few notices of Jesus Christ outside of the New
Testament documents are either now known to be forgeries or are suspect. In the New
Testament we are also told of dead walking the streets of Jerusalem, of the massacre of
the innocents and following the resurrection that a darkness descended over the land - but
outside of the Bible there is no substantiation of these claims in any legitimate
contemporary or later writings. Why not? Surely such events would be worthy of note.
Conflicts of this type are many and only serve to throw doubt on the truth of the original
texts.
In summary, proof of when the New Testament documents were written is not proof
that they weren't versions of earlier legends/beliefs or that they weren't made up. In
fact the evidence tends to suggest they were.
But anyway, what is the relevance of this to Amiga? Or for that matter to the original
subject of this OT post?
Timothy Rue
>>On 31-Oct-01 08:07:21 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>[SNIP]
>>has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
>>power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
>>virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that He
>>could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of seperation
>>from God for us, so that we don't have to.
Who the hell wrote that?
>But Jesus was God. The Holy Trinity tells us that the Father the Son (Jesus)
> and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. So where is the separation?
Have you ever met the "holy trinity" or are you just going by word of
mouth?
Timothy Rue
>In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
>thre...@earthlink.net says...
>> On 01-Nov-01 19:59:53 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>>
>> [snip - see thread]
>>
>> >...... We are our own responsibility,......
>>
>> >"Them", this is not a one sided issue. We are not one with those that
>> >wish us dead.
>>
>> What species are them, that they are not "we"?
>What does species have to do with anything? [snip]
[snip]
>This is a cancer within our species, if you insist on a species analogy.
>The cancer threatens the existance of the rest of the body. Regardless
>of how much you understand the cancer's motives, or how to prevent the
>cancer, the cancer must be killed. You cannot co-exist with something
>that wants you dead.
Yes hitler jr. the second.
[snip]
>I've got news for you Timmy, we wern't BOMBING them when they hit us,
>why would they stop just because we don't retaliate? They simply want us
>dead, they are fueled by hate and murder.
You don't know what the US does.
[snip]
>China sells weapons to our enemies, god forbid our enemies favor China!
>China has also stated "War with the United States is inevitable" on
>numerous occasions, these are the exact words of their Minister of
>Defence. [snip]
[snip]
Someone should tell you that our CIA taught Bin Laden how to fight
wars. And what was that I head of an Anthrax stockpile we had over there?
If you went in for cancer treatment and it was completely successful,
there wouldn't be anything left to walk out the door.
Timothy Rue
>This has always amused me to no end... That someone could actually SEE
>these things happen, and not believe he was who he said he was! "Hey
>look, he can walk on water!", "Yea? So what?" :/ I mean, it's one thing
>if 'faith' is involved, and you are told the story, but to see it and
>not, like, convert right away?
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tim...@mindspring.com+miracles+alt.messianic
There is also the eight wonder of the world, Coral Castle, how it was
built. go to www.google.com and search on "coral castle"
anti-gravity?
Timothy Rue
>
>I do not deceive, but speak the truth. The fact that you don't wish it
>to be the truth doesn't stop it from being the truth.
>........... The being you encountered did nothing but spread slander
>against God, clothed within enough truth to deceive you. He did this
>because he *is* the deceiver. Satan will appear as an angel of light,
>not as the dealer of darkness that he is. Who would follow him if he
>appeared in his true form? He can only draw you away from the path to
>God by deceiving you into following another path which seems good, but
>which will end in your destruction. When God speaks to you He does not
>deceive, but tells you the truth as painful as it may be. He does not
>tell you that the path is going to be easy. No! He tells you that the
>path is narrow and *HARD* to follow, but that He will be with you and
>prevent you from falling off of the path.
Knock it off William!
You don't know, you weren't there and apparently you don't get it. You
don't seem to understand "if it wasn't god, then there ain't one, no if's
ands or butts about it."
[gosh, lot's of negitivity in the above and some below too. It's Satans
fault! huh?]
This, as you said, being I encountered, was actually a result of a request
I made during the communication. It WAS NOT a request to see god, you know,
like in "show yourself", which would have been somewhat redundant. And I
only saw enough to know of the presence, a request being answered.
But you William, have shown yourself here. And what is it that I preceive
of you?
Certainly you are not trying to convince me of anything. So who are you
trying to convince and why? Yourself? Faith (blind?) less than a mustard
seed?
Perhaps with our knowledge of scripture, you will be able to give the
chapter and verse(s) where Jesus did something three times, but some
apostles, of which he was trying to get to witness what he did, fell
asleep all three times, failing to witness it.
What was it he was doing? Kabballah? And if so, why would he want them to
witness it?
This thread really needs to be moved to alt.messianic so the
followup-to:alt.messianic has been set. (or at least attempted, if it
don't work)
Perhaps this should also be done for other branches of this [OT] subject?
William F. Maddock
>possible, so the only answer is to buy into Christianity. An inte-
>resting experiment, but ultimately it failed since there are hardly any
>practicing Christians today. (Millions of people who practice various
>mutant forms of it while still incorrectly retaining the name, yes.)
God's purpose cannot fail, since God cannot fail. What Christianity
teaches, is that humanity uses the wrong standard in the first place.
Being human ourselves we usually fail to term it properly. But
essentially, humanity uses a standard that is eternally shifting, which
results in confusion as to what is good and what is evil. God uses
Himself as the standard, and since He doesn't change, the standard also
doesn't change. As a result, by the true, unshifting standard of God, no
one is good and all are evil, because no one measures up to the stadard,
which is God Himself. Since only a truly good person can open the door
to Heaven, that means that only God can open the door to Heaven. Since
only God can open that door, we are *all* completely and totally
dependent on God, and His Grace, to open that door for us. None of us is
deserving of God's Grace. If we were deserving of it, it wouldn't be
Grace in the first place, since Grace is *undeserved* favor. Since none
of us deserves Grace, and we are *all* imperfect, failing to measure up
to God's standard of goodness, none of us deserves Heaven, and none of
us can open the door to Heaven ourselves, but must depend on God Himself
to open that door for us.
Yet God is a righteous God, and cannot open the door to Heaven simply on
a whim. Because we are not perfect, and have all knowingly, and
willfully committed sin---acts of unrighteousness---there is a price
that must be paid.
*What is that price? And what happened to Grace??* The price is your
eternal soul. It is death. It is seperation from God, ultimate
destruction because of your choice to not know God and to disobey Him.
Once you pay the price of your eternal soul, how will you buy it back?
Even the whole universe is not enough to buy back your eternal soul. But
God made the universe.
*What happened to Grace!?!?* The Grace is that God acted to pay this
price Himself. Because He wants you to know Him and to love Him He
allows you to choose whether or not to depend totally on Him.
*How did God pay the price for my sins?* God paid the price that allows
Him to grant you undeserved favor---which is what Grace is---by
accepting undeserved punishment. He came down to earth, taking the form
of a man, which man was born of a virgin enfused by the Holy Spirit so
that He would not inherit the sin of Adam. He lived a life that was free
from sin, living that life so that He has lived life from *our* point of
view---a life frought with the temptations of evil. But He did not give
in to temptation. He lived a life free from sin. Because He lived a life
free from sin, He did not deserve to die---in *any* manner---yet He
offered Himself up to the most horrible death yet devised. He offered
Himself up to be *nailed* to a cross and left there to die. This is
crucifixion. Normally people were not nailed to their cross, but were
only tied to it, but they wanted to be sure that Jesus did not come off
of that cross, so they nailed Him to it. When you are crucified you
slowly bleed to death while at the same time you slowly sufficate. Since
He was hanging on a cross by nails, He also had the agony of those nails
piercing His flesh, grinding against the bones they pierced. When you
hang from the cross in that fashion you can't breathe right, so you
start to sufficate. In order to get more breath you push up on your feet
and let them take the load for a while so that you can breathe, but how
long can you take the torturous pain in your feet from having your full
weight on that one nail? So, from the pain, you sag back down and once
again begin to sufficate. This process is repeated until you finally
die. This process could take days, but Jesus had already been flogged
with barbed whips, and was already near collapse from loss of blood, so
it only took Him hours to die on the cross. To make certain that He was
indeed dead, a Roman soldier stabbed Him with a spear (or sword) in just
such a place that his remaining blood (with some water) ran out of His
body. So He gave His life, and all of His blood as payment for our sins.
But Jesus had not sinned, so death had no right to Him, and could not
hold Him. On the third day He was bodily resurrected from the dead. This
resurrection is our sure and certain knowledge that everything that God
says is true and will come to pass. Even death could not stop Him. For
40 days after the resurrection Jesus spent time among the people, giving
witness that He was indeed alive again, after having died on the cross.
Then He was taken up into Heaven in the sight of witnesses.
>The most interesting argument I had regarding this sort of thing was
>with an older gentleman, who also understood that eternal life is not
>something to be desired, but his view was that it's inevitable (for
>reasons I won't get into here), however, belief in God will save you
>from it. He was never able to explain why, unfortunately for him,
>because that's the only way I could possibly consider becoming a
>"believer."
In the spiritual form, you are immortal and cannot cease to exist. Your
only options that are truly open to you are how you will spend eternity.
You can choose to spend it in the ultimate agony of eternal destruction,
which cannot ever end because you cannot ever end, or you can choose to
spend it in God's presence. These are the only two options available.
If you will accept Jesus' sacrifice, living your life for Him, you will
spend eternity in Heaven with Him. In order to do this, you must
recognize your sins and confess them to Him and ask His forgiveness for
them. As you do this, ask Him to come into your heart and take over the
throne of your life. Then watch as your whole life changes from within.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 3-Nov-1 10:49:12 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Mark 6:35 By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to
him. "This is a remote place," they said, "and it's already very late.
William F. Maddock
Hey, people's hearts are incredibly hard. One day, I was out walking on
my lunch hour after having had a fight with my best friend at the time
(a totally gorgeous, married blonde). The fight was mostly my fault, and
I was well down on myself as I walked. I know I can't prove what
happened next. All I can tell you is that I knew it was not my thought,
but that it had been placed there and had a stamp of "otherness" to it.
The thought was this:
Don't give up
Keep your chin up
The world does not revolve around your pain
I love you
You know I do
The Son will shine within your heart again
I know it hurts
It may get worse
The day will come when you can smile and then
Look in your soul
Let love take hold
Let the treasure in your heart shine forth again
Now, that is totally and completely Biblical, and if you look at it,
it's bleedin' obvious who's talking. Still it took me 13½ months to
convert to Christianity. People's hearts are incredibly hard, I know.
Every last detail of that poem has come true---all of it.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 3-Nov-1 12:00:43 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Numbers 6:25 the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to
you;
William F. Maddock
>In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
>thre...@earthlink.net says...
>> , the US has cause alot more than 5000 innocent to be killed.
>That comment highly annoys me. I would never kill for any reason other
>than self defence.
With the exception of this one point I agree with your entire post,
TParker. While the phrase Timothy Rue posted above is not true in the
sense he probably means it, and at the risk of providing Mr. Rue with
more fuel, his phrase *is* true from God's perspective. in fact you
could add four zeroes to the end of Mr. Rue's number and it would be
much closer to the truth. The American Holicaust is abortion. It is
interesting to note that should the current numbers prove out, they are
extrememly close to the daily death toll in the United States due to
abortion.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 3-Nov-1 12:15:07 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Numbers 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with
their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions.
William F. Maddock
>>On 31-Oct-01 08:07:21 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net>
>>>wrote:
>>has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
>>power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
>>virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that
>>He could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of
>>seperation from God for us, so that we don't have to.
>But Jesus was God. The Holy Trinity tells us that the Father the Son
>(Jesus) and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. So where is the
>separation?
Thus comes the mystery of the Trinity, that they are distinct, yet
unified. One way you could view the seperation is that because Jesus is
eternal, having existed from the beginning of time He has not always had
a physical body, but took one on in order to die for our sins. Noting
that when He returned to Heaven, He was physically lifted up, Jesus
still has a physical body, while the others do not. If you are standing
outside the wind can be all around you, yet it is still seperate from
you. When you make love to your spouse your bodies are united, yet they
are still distinct and seperate. Imagine the gulf of seperation for
someone who has known a totally spiritual existence, who could be in all
places at all times at the same time, now confined to a physical body,
the only physical body in all of Heaven. Yet He gladly took it on. And
He did it for you. He is not sorry. He is in love. And He pines for you.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 3-Nov-1 12:24:05 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
2 Kings 6:30 When the king heard the woman's words, he tore his robes.
As he went along the wall, the people looked, and there, underneath, he
had sackcloth on his body.
William F. Maddock
>[SNIP]
>[SNIP]
>As an example:
>accepting one you must also accept all others. Of course you may
>accept any one over the others, (as was the case with Church's
>treatment of the documents known collectively as the Apocryphal New
>Testament), but this would be purely a matter of personal preference
>and as such belief/bias not evidence for your preferred beliefs
>veracity.
>It is interesting to note also that the few notices of Jesus Christ
>outside of the New Testament documents are either now known to be
>forgeries or are suspect. In the New Testament we are also told of
>dead walking the streets of Jerusalem, of the massacre of the
>innocents and following the resurrection that a darkness descended over
>the land - but outside of the Bible there is no substantiation of
>these claims in any legitimate contemporary or later writings. Why
>not? Surely such events would be worthy of note. Conflicts of this
>type are many and only serve to throw doubt on the truth of the
>original texts.
>In summary, proof of when the New Testament documents were written is
>not proof that they weren't versions of earlier legends/beliefs or
>that they weren't made up. In fact the evidence tends to suggest they
>were.
Of all of the "examples" you name, how many of them can be independently
verified outside of their own writings? None? The events of the Bible
are well substanciated by many ancient non-Biblical texts---scrolls and
tablets. Your pre-emptive strike against veracity, if taken seriously,
could only strike against *both* sides---mine *and yours.* It is not
only an unsubstantiated claim, it is also illogical.
The Essenes did not follow Mithra. They followed the God of the Bible.
They kept meticulous copies of Old Testament scriptures. Hundreds of
scrolls and fragments were found in those caves and they include
the oldest copies of old Testament books and passages, among them being
a complete---not fragmentary, but complete---scroll of Isaiah. Of all
the examples of ancient literature the oldest, most well kept, and
documented are the Biblical texts. In spite of thousands of years of
efforts to try and wipe out the Bible, there are literally thousands and
thousands of ancient and accurate copies of the Biblical texts still
extant today. In some cases they go right back to the time of Christ,
when there were eyewitnesses around to ensure the accuracy of the
writings that got included in the Old and New Testaments. To avoid
confusion, let me add that when I speak of the Bible, I speak of the New
Testament canon and the Jerusalem canon of the Old Testament. I do not
speak of the Alexandrian canon, which the Roman Catholic Church accepts,
because the first century Jews in Jerusalem did not accept it as canon.
All of the examples of other religions' *claims* to what the Bible truly
has are unsubstantiated outside of their own texts, but the Bible is
verified outside of it's own texts. No other faith can make that claim.
The Babylonians were enemies of those who followed the Bible, yet
ancient Babylonian texts verify passages of the Bible as true---right
down to the details of the rations the Hebrew captives were given. In
fact the exact year of the exodus from Egypt is now known because of
non-Biblical texts that verified an Old Testament passage, and precisely
placed the year of its occurance. This same passage refered to a precise
number of years since the Exodus. So it is by the verification from non-
Biblical texts that the Exodus is known to have taken place in 1446 BC.
As for investigating the claims of the Bible, I suggest that you talk
with Lee Strobel because of his research, and talk to Dr. W. Harold
Mare, an archeaologist who heads up excavations in Jordan and runs a
local museum, who knows Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, who is currently
looking into claims for and against the Qu'ran by reading his own copy,
who has helped to translate the Bible and has seen with his own eyes the
ancient texts I speak of, and who leads my Sunday School class.
>But anyway, what is the relevance of this to Amiga? Or for that matter
>to the original subject of this OT post?
This is relevent to the first post I saw on this subject, posted by Mr.
Rue, who brought in the subject of God and Jesus.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 3-Nov-1 12:45:14 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Luke 18:41 "What do you want me to do for you?"ś "Lord, I want to see,"
he replied.
Eric Haines
> In the spiritual form, you are immortal and cannot cease to exist.
This is incorrect. We--that is, our consciousness--is 100% spiritual
and has no form. Most people labor under the misapprehension that we
have a "soul" that is composed of some undefined supernatural
"matter," which interacts with the real world, can travel from place
to place, etc. Fortunately, this is not the case. Our spiritual
"being," which doesn't exist in *any* physical sense, depends entirely
on the arrangement and functioning of neurons in our brain. When that
stops, we cease to exist. It's very simple and nothing to be afraid
of--none of us existed before we were born, so in a sense we all know
what death is really like if you bother to think about it.
> Your
> only options that are truly open to you are how you will spend eternity.
> You can choose to spend it in the ultimate agony of eternal destruction,
> which cannot ever end because you cannot ever end, or you can choose to
> spend it in God's presence. These are the only two options available.
Actually not, since they aren't based on reality. The only two
options you really have are: 1) Accept life for what it is, or 2)
waste your life in a futile fight against death.
> If you will accept Jesus' sacrifice, living your life for Him, you will
> spend eternity in Heaven with Him.
Any form of eternal life is the ultimate hell, God or no God.
> In order to do this, you must
> recognize your sins and confess them to Him and ask His forgiveness for
> them. As you do this, ask Him to come into your heart and take over the
> throne of your life. Then watch as your whole life changes from within.
>
> --
> William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
My life has already changed. More than once, actually. As the
Buddhists say, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill the Buddha."
If you ever think you've achieved true final understanding, all you've
achieved is personal stagnation. I hope you don't let that happen to
you, but in the meantime, this is *way* off topic (even if Amiga has
been called a religion), so I'm going to stop here.
--Eric
Ed Dana
> <big snip>
>
>>In the spiritual form, you are immortal and cannot cease to exist.
>>
>
[snip]
> When that
> stops, we cease to exist. It's very simple and nothing to be afraid
> of--none of us existed before we were born, so in a sense we all know
> what death is really like if you bother to think about it.
>
Now, why don't you just tell yourself that when death is staring you in
the face. :)
We are born, regardless of what it truly is, with an innate fear of
death. Which is precisely why religions preach "life after death", and
why many so quickly accept that belief: to help control our fear of it.
--
Sincerely, | When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries of
Ed Dana | life disappear and life stands explained.
Software Developer | -- Mark Twain
Amiga Enthusiast. |
=========== http://OurWorld.CompuServe.com/Homepages/EDanaII ===========
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 03-Nov-01 00:20:37 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
> >In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
> >thre...@earthlink.net says...
> >> On 01-Nov-01 19:59:53 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip - see thread]
> >>
> >> >...... We are our own responsibility,......
> >>
> >> >"Them", this is not a one sided issue. We are not one with those that
> >> >wish us dead.
> >>
> >> What species are them, that they are not "we"?
>
> >What does species have to do with anything? [snip]
>
> [snip]
>
> >This is a cancer within our species, if you insist on a species analogy.
> >The cancer threatens the existance of the rest of the body. Regardless
> >of how much you understand the cancer's motives, or how to prevent the
> >cancer, the cancer must be killed. You cannot co-exist with something
> >that wants you dead.
>
> Yes hitler jr. the second.
You cannot co-exist with those that want you, Timmy, Dead. They want you
dead, do you not understand that? They want to kill every American they
can, do you not understand that?
(Goddards law ignored, for the time being.)
> [snip]
>
> >I've got news for you Timmy, we wern't BOMBING them when they hit us,
> >why would they stop just because we don't retaliate? They simply want us
> >dead, they are fueled by hate and murder.
>
> You don't know what the US does.
It doesn't MATTER Timmy, Americans are being killed within our borders,
and we're DOING something about it! All you can do is blasphem the
victims with stories you read from your toilet magazines and conspiracy
websites. You are CLEARLY out of touch with reality.
> [snip]
>
> >China sells weapons to our enemies, god forbid our enemies favor China!
> >China has also stated "War with the United States is inevitable" on
> >numerous occasions, these are the exact words of their Minister of
> >Defence. [snip]
>
> [snip]
>
> Someone should tell you that our CIA taught Bin Laden how to fight
> wars. And what was that I head of an Anthrax stockpile we had over there?
SO WHAT? They're killing Americans! I could give a frogs fatass about
who we were allied with before, they are KILLING us NOW.
> If you went in for cancer treatment and it was completely successful,
> there wouldn't be anything left to walk out the door.
Except a healthy body with no cancer.
Terrorism has no place in this world, not anywhere, not even as a "last
resort" to Timothy Rue's conspiracy theories.
Eric Haines
> > stops, we cease to exist. It's very simple and nothing to be afraid
> > of--none of us existed before we were born, so in a sense we all know
> > what death is really like if you bother to think about it.
> >
>
>
> Now, why don't you just tell yourself that when death is staring you in
> the face. :)
>
> We are born, regardless of what it truly is, with an innate fear of
> death. Which is precisely why religions preach "life after death", and
> why many so quickly accept that belief: to help control our fear of it.
>
> --
> Sincerely, | When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries of
> Ed Dana | life disappear and life stands explained.
Yes, but when you *understand*, really, what eternal life would mean,
and not just in an intellectual sense like we are talking about it
now, that wholly natural and innate fear of death gets burned away. I
had that true understanding twice, and it's not something the human
mind is very good at dealing with, believe me. Nice tagline, BTW. :)
--Eric
Tparker
stl.net says...
> On 02-Nov-01 23:20:37 ke...@llyourspam.com Tparker wrote:
>
> >In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
> >thre...@earthlink.net says...
>
> >> , the US has cause alot more than 5000 innocent to be killed.
>
> >That comment highly annoys me. I would never kill for any reason other
> >than self defence.
>
> With the exception of this one point I agree with your entire post,
> TParker. While the phrase Timothy Rue posted above is not true in the
> sense he probably means it, and at the risk of providing Mr. Rue with
> more fuel, his phrase *is* true from God's perspective. in fact you
> could add four zeroes to the end of Mr. Rue's number and it would be
> much closer to the truth. The American Holicaust is abortion. It is
> interesting to note that should the current numbers prove out, they are
> extrememly close to the daily death toll in the United States due to
> abortion.
I agree somewhat, but I don't see America as the perpetrator, but the
crime scene if you will. there are a lot of people in this world that
live life, well, loosely.
I used to be under the impression that abortion could be "Lawed" out of
existance, but it just can't, it has to be "taught" out of existance.
Giving condoms to kids doesn't teach them anything, and forcing kids to
have their babies doesn't teach anything either. (In fact, both
approaches tend to create a cycle that repeats itself in the next
generation.)
In any event, I see America itself as irrelevant in this respect, as
this is the job of parents, I would be annoyed if the government stepped
on my feet in my responsibility one way or the other.
John Burns
>>>On 01-Nov-01 11:48:46 eha...@acadia.DOT.net Eric Haines wrote:
>>[SNIP]
>>>Your opinion is based on the assumption that the New Testament
>>[SNIP]
>>If you wish to talk of researching I suggest you look into the Essenes
>>(followers of Mithra) and the Orphic cults whose theology is almost
>>indistinquishable from the much later cult of Christianity.
>>So what I am trying to say is that since all these religions/beliefs
>>pre-date Christianity (some by centuries) and are as well, if not
>>better, authenticated than the New Testament documents then by
>>accepting one you must also accept all others. Of course you may
>>accept any one over the others, (as was the case with Church's
>>treatment of the documents known collectively as the Apocryphal New
>>Testament), but this would be purely a matter of personal preference
>>and as such belief/bias not evidence for your preferred beliefs
>>veracity.
>>It is interesting to note also that the few notices of Jesus Christ
>>outside of the New Testament documents are either now known to be
>>forgeries or are suspect. In the New Testament we are also told of
>>dead walking the streets of Jerusalem, of the massacre of the
>>innocents and following the resurrection that a darkness descended over
>>the land - but outside of the Bible there is no substantiation of
>>these claims in any legitimate contemporary or later writings. Why
>>not? Surely such events would be worthy of note. Conflicts of this
>>type are many and only serve to throw doubt on the truth of the
>>original texts.
Funny that you never answered this para? I for one would have thought
that such events were worthy of note if they had really happened but even
though contemporary accounts are available for the period none mention them.
>>In summary, proof of when the New Testament documents were written is
>>not proof that they weren't versions of earlier legends/beliefs or
>>that they weren't made up. In fact the evidence tends to suggest they
>>were.
>Of all of the "examples" you name, how many of them can be independently
>verified outside of their own writings? None? The events of the Bible
>are well substanciated by many ancient non-Biblical texts---scrolls and
>tablets. Your pre-emptive strike against veracity, if taken seriously,
>could only strike against *both* sides---mine *and yours.* It is not
>only an unsubstantiated claim, it is also illogical.
Wrong. By arguing for you obviously must refute logic straight away since
belief in a God itself outwith logic. However, I see nothing wrong with
merely pointed out similarities from cults/religions which predate
christianity that some of these are unsubstantiated outside of themselves is
immaterial since they can be proven to have been written before the NT.
These similarities cannot be ignored and one must face the _Logical_ conclusion
that the NT miracle of virgin birth for instance was merely a copy of earlier
beliefs. In fact virgin birth, resurrection and curing of illness are well
documented through lots of sources as being applied to deity in most pre
christian religions. And how do you answer for those parts of the Bible that
are known through independent sources to be false or inaccurate, bummer eh?
>The Essenes did not follow Mithra. They followed the God of the Bible.
Incorrect, that they followed the same God as the Bible is a later
interpretation. It is the very similarities with their cult and later
christianity which first made 17th century theologians claim that they
were an early christian society who had kept themselves hidden through
fear of persecution, most theologians now accept this to be false. This
was obviously an easier option than trying to explain it legitimately by
accepting that christianity is itself nothing more than a copy of earlier
pagan systems. To say they were followers of the Biblical god is a very
ill-founded statement and is like me starting a religion today which is
99% christian orientated and declaring that all previous christian sects
were really followers of my religion since they are so similar.
>They kept meticulous copies of Old Testament scriptures. Hundreds of
>scrolls and fragments were found in those caves and they include
>the oldest copies of old Testament books and passages, among them being
>a complete---not fragmentary, but complete---scroll of Isaiah. Of all
>the examples of ancient literature the oldest, most well kept, and
>documented are the Biblical texts. In spite of thousands of years of
Oh please, Biblical texts are by no means either the oldest or best
examples of ancient literature. This is purely a subjective opinion on
your behalf and is certainly not backed by fact.
>efforts to try and wipe out the Bible, there are literally thousands and
>thousands of ancient and accurate copies of the Biblical texts still
>extant today. In some cases they go right back to the time of Christ,
>when there were eyewitnesses around to ensure the accuracy of the
>writings that got included in the Old and New Testaments. To avoid
>confusion, let me add that when I speak of the Bible, I speak of the New
>Testament canon and the Jerusalem canon of the Old Testament. I do not
>speak of the Alexandrian canon, which the Roman Catholic Church accepts,
>because the first century Jews in Jerusalem did not accept it as canon.
Still doesn't prove anything. Eyewitnesses are notoriously imprecise. Two
people seeing the same event can quite often give completely different
versions of the same event. The New Testament itself is admittedly not as
full of holes as the Old Testament but there are enough to cast severe doubts
on it's accuracy.
>All of the examples of other religions' *claims* to what the Bible truly
>has are unsubstantiated outside of their own texts, but the Bible is
>verified outside of it's own texts. No other faith can make that claim.
>The Babylonians were enemies of those who followed the Bible, yet
>ancient Babylonian texts verify passages of the Bible as true---right
>down to the details of the rations the Hebrew captives were given. In
>fact the exact year of the exodus from Egypt is now known because of
>non-Biblical texts that verified an Old Testament passage, and precisely
>placed the year of its occurance. This same passage refered to a precise
>number of years since the Exodus. So it is by the verification from non-
>Biblical texts that the Exodus is known to have taken place in 1446 BC.
But you miss the point if for instance ancient Egyptian texts which predate
the Bible by some centuries are found reworked as parts of the Bible then
you cannot claim the Bible to be something unique. I do not advocate that
any religion has any greater authority than any other - in fact I believe
them all to be suspect. If you wish to believe fair enough but please don't
expect others to accept the Bible as an authoritative document when it so
obviously isn't. Any religion which, by it's very nature as a belief system,
has elements of the supernatural contained therein ulimately cannot be proven
since the very supernatural element on which it relies is outwith proof.
Likewise of course it cannot be disproved since ultimately proof is a matter
of belief.
Just as other texts may verify parts of the Bible just as many others
do not. It seems that you are being selective in using those that verify
as proof and that which doesn't is discarded or ignored. As an aside though
one reason why there is less substantiating evidence for earlier religions is
the very fact of the age. In general, as history progresses it becomes
easier to corroborate claims through independent sources.
>As for investigating the claims of the Bible, I suggest that you talk
>with Lee Strobel because of his research, and talk to Dr. W. Harold
>Mare, an archeaologist who heads up excavations in Jordan and runs a
>local museum, who knows Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, who is currently
>looking into claims for and against the Qu'ran by reading his own copy,
>who has helped to translate the Bible and has seen with his own eyes the
>ancient texts I speak of, and who leads my Sunday School class.
Why? I have investigated enough for myself to see that though some claims
made therein are substantiated just as many others are found to be false
which I am afraid must lead one to assume the entire document to be suspect
as a source of authority. God's word - my ass, if it was then there obviously
wouldn't be a single mistake, would there.
>>But anyway, what is the relevance of this to Amiga? Or for that matter
>>to the original subject of this OT post?
>This is relevent to the first post I saw on this subject, posted by Mr.
>Rue, who brought in the subject of God and Jesus.
Sorry, but that didn't actually answer my question, did it? I did point out
to Tim at the time that he was also veering from the subject which you will
have noticed if you read the thread.
I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off topic and
if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would take it either to
an appropriate NG or privately.
John Burns
>>>On 31-Oct-01 08:07:21 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>>On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
>>>power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
>>>virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that
>>>He could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of
>>>seperation from God for us, so that we don't have to.
>>But Jesus was God. The Holy Trinity tells us that the Father the Son
>>(Jesus) and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. So where is the
>>separation?
>Thus comes the mystery of the Trinity, that they are distinct, yet
>unified. One way you could view the seperation is that because Jesus is
>eternal, having existed from the beginning of time He has not always had
>a physical body, but took one on in order to die for our sins. Noting
>that when He returned to Heaven, He was physically lifted up, Jesus
>still has a physical body, while the others do not. If you are standing
>outside the wind can be all around you, yet it is still seperate from
>you. When you make love to your spouse your bodies are united, yet they
>are still distinct and seperate. Imagine the gulf of seperation for
>someone who has known a totally spiritual existence, who could be in all
>places at all times at the same time, now confined to a physical body,
>the only physical body in all of Heaven. Yet He gladly took it on. And
All your analogies are of course totally wrong since the things you cite are
not actually united but merely in close proximity to each other. But given
that god is all knowing and eternal a few years (40 odd) was hardly much of
a sacrifice was it. It ain't even much by the age of the Earth let alone the
age of the Universe.
>He did it for you. He is not sorry. He is in love. And He pines for you.
Well I'm afraid he's wasting his time with me. However, given that he knows all
time surely it was a bit naughty of him to start christianity since he obviously
must have known all the death and misery which would ensue from this act.
John Burns
>>>On 31-Oct-01 08:07:21 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>>On 31-Oct-01 00:02:04 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>>[SNIP]
>>>has provided it for us freely. God the Son came down to earth by the
>>>power of the Holy Spirit, not by the seed of a man, and was born to a
>>>virgin, who named Him Jesus. Jesus lived a life free from sin so that He
>>>could pay the price for *our* sin by suffering the price of seperation
>>>from God for us, so that we don't have to.
>Who the hell wrote that?
>>But Jesus was God. The Holy Trinity tells us that the Father the Son
>>(Jesus)
>> and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. So where is the separation?
>Have you ever met the "holy trinity" or are you just going by word of
>mouth?
Actually I was being facetious. As I've told you before I don't believe in
religion. The words ~tells us~ in the context I used does not imply
that I have actually met such a thing or that it was actually spoken, in
this instance it was the written word which I was quoting.
John Burns
No it ain't
>and if you look at it, it's bleedin' obvious who's talking.
Yes, you to yourself.
>Still it took me 13½ months to convert to Christianity. People's hearts are incredibly hard, I know.
>Every last detail of that poem has come true---all of it.
Wow, there was after all so much detail in it.
Be honest there is an obvious difference between some thought coming into
your head and seeing a truly miraculaous event.
John Burns
Nice one, some people obviously just don't know a miracle when they see one ;)
Timothy Rue
>On 02-Nov-01 23:20:37 ke...@llyourspam.com Tparker wrote:
>>In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
>>thre...@earthlink.net says...
>>> , the US has cause alot more than 5000 innocent to be killed.
>>That comment highly annoys me. I would never kill for any reason other
>>than self defence.
>With the exception of this one point I agree with your entire post,
>TParker. While the phrase Timothy Rue posted above is not true in the
>sense he probably means it, and at the risk of providing Mr. Rue with
>more fuel, his phrase *is* true from God's perspective. in fact you
>could add four zeroes to the end of Mr. Rue's number and it would be
>much closer to the truth. The American Holicaust is abortion. It is
>interesting to note that should the current numbers prove out, they are
>extrememly close to the daily death toll in the United States due to
>abortion.
There are plenty of children in this world that are most certainly born
and alive enough to know they are human beings. Only they don't seem to
have the right to life or freedom of choice, as they are starving and
dying.
About 105 million dollars (US) went directly to health and education
programs of the Christians Childrens Fund fiscal Year 2001.
How much money has been rasied so far for the 9/11 funds?
I don't know but do know the CCF funds are and will be helping far more
people.
William, you need to take a look at this:
http://www.osearth.com/resources/worldmeters/
Take a good look at the different meters!
Now, are you sitting down? If not then do so.
http://www.osearth.com/resources/wwwproject/
Abortion is a moot issue until, and only until world hunger and education
issues are solved. We have the technology and we have the funds to make
this happen.
So why is it not happening?
You want to fight about it?
James
> On 02-Nov-01 23:20:37 ke...@llyourspam.com Tparker wrote:
>
> >In article <3676.706T1993T6...@earthlink.net>,
> >thre...@earthlink.net says...
>
> >> , the US has cause alot more than 5000 innocent to be killed.
>
> >That comment highly annoys me. I would never kill for any reason other
> >than self defence.
>
> With the exception of this one point I agree with your entire post,
> TParker. While the phrase Timothy Rue posted above is not true in the
> sense he probably means it, and at the risk of providing Mr. Rue with
> more fuel, his phrase *is* true from God's perspective. in fact you
> could add four zeroes to the end of Mr. Rue's number and it would be
> much closer to the truth. The American Holicaust is abortion. It is
> interesting to note that should the current numbers prove out, they are
> extrememly close to the daily death toll in the United States due to
> abortion.
Religion in an Amiga newsgroup! Who would've thought it could happen?
--
James
Timothy Rue
>You cannot co-exist with those that want you, Timmy, Dead. They want you
>dead, do you not understand that? They want to kill every American they
>can, do you not understand that?
Who are they? Name them, each and every one.
>Terrorism has no place in this world, not anywhere, not even as a "last
>resort" to Timothy Rue's conspiracy theories.
Seems to me that you need to step away from your computer, step away from
you desk, step away from the building, step away from the complex, step
away from the city, step away from the county, step away from the state,
step away from the country, step away from the earth, where you can then
see it, where you can see it all, for real.
Instead of the small little speck of a world you imagine to be.
Timothy Rue
>Religion in an Amiga newsgroup! Who would've thought it could happen?
LOL, defies all logic huh?
Timothy Rue
>http://www.osearth.com/resources/wwwproject/
Assuming you don't want to fight about it, that fighting is not the goal
or main desire of people, then there must be something else, something
bigger that is the problem. You know, considering annual world military
spending is $780 billion dollars (US) and to solve the major world
humanitarian problems only needs 1/3 of that....
The problem has to be more than something under a trillion dollars.
A CIA Fact Sheet on Indonesia -- see the religion percentages (88% muslim).
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html
OK, (given the above muslim population of indonesia):
from the pbs trillion dollar bet article:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2704stockmarket.html
"In the summer of 1997, across Thailand, property prices plummeted. This
sparked a panic that swept through Asia. As banks went bust from Japan to
Indonesia, people took to the streets - events so improbable they had
never been included in anyone's models."
and in Indonesia May 1998:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/rk980515_indonesia.html
"Sources all over Asia tell Uscher that Asians know about local corruption
but believe America is taking advantage of the situation to grab Asian
markets and Asian wealth."
and (read the article!!!):
http://www5.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9805/16/indonesia/
"The austerity measures were a condition of the International Monetary
Fund's $43 billion aid package to bail out the southeast Asian nation. "
Where the US bailout was only (pbs article):
"We expect that they're going to explain to the members of this Committee
why the Federal Reserve has organized the $3.5 billion bail-out for
billionaires, why Americans should be worried about the gambling practices
of the Wall Street elite"
And there is something else I have run across for that timeline as well
(making the "trillion dollar bet" just icing on this cake?):
http://www.neo-tech.com/djourney/enter.php
(note: overall I find information from this resource to be integratingly
correct enough to be both useful and insightful, though with a touch of
blind bias towards capitalism, though it does try not to be blindly
biased, it is to subjective to capitalism to completely avoid it.)
"During the 1993-1999 bubble era of false economic progress, many CEOs,
executives, employers, employees, even customers adopted the scams of
clintonian-era politicians, lawyers, journalists, academics to become
increasingly dishonest, corrupt, even criminal. The bubble-building,
stock-market fraud began when Chairman Alan Greenspan clintonized the
Federal Reserve. He signaled that politicization by blatantly breaking
a time-honored apolitical precedent when he sat as a special guest in
the president's box during Clinton s first State-of-the-Union address.
Greenspan, the former acolyte of capitalism-champion Ayn Rand, then
married a socialist/clintonian journalist. His drive to create a
Clinton-boosting, economic boom -- a high-tech bubble economy --
escalated from that point. He with Robert Rubin and Bill Clinton
artificially increased the value of the dollar, relentlessly increased
the M-3 money supply, recklessly created sloshing liquidity, and pied
pipered consumers and corporations into bankrupting debt. He engineered
those cancerous long-term policies to continually fuel the equity markets
for baleful political ends and unearned glory.
The bubble burst in early 2000 causing losses of four-trillion dollars.
After several sharp bear-market rallies, those equity losses launched a
long-term economic decline -- the feared L-shaped recession or worse."
Oh yeah and this current 2 year stock market link comparing the DOW with
the S&P and most important the NASDAQ. Where you can tell where the money
went and also know what the dot coms were all about.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^IXIC&d=c&k=c1&c=^spc,^dji&a=v&p=s&t=2y&l=off&z=l&q=l
Given the above
From the CBS article on the NSA (National Security Agency) total system
failure: http://cbsnews.cbs.com/now/story/0,1597,266857-412,00.shtml
"In January 2000, Gen. Mike Hayden, the director of the NSA, received a
call from the agency's watch officer alerting him that all of its
computers had crashed."
In that same article (in fact in the previous paragraph):
"A phone call intercepted by the NSA is often the first warning that a
terrorist such as Osama bin Laden is planning an attack against Americans.
To find that threatening phone call, email or radio transmission among the
billions made daily, the NSA relies on rooms of supercomputers."
The date of this CBS article is Aug 29, 2001.
Do you really think maybe Y2K brought the systems all down? For what is
supposed to be the top spy agency in the US? (they don't say what caused
the three and a half day crash.)
Or do you perhaps see a simpler Truth to the matter, such as:
Stock market gamblers and Gov. screwed up the world economy so bad and
especially for muslims that the NSA had damn good reason to KNOW what was
going to happen and that they needed an excuse for their total inability
to deal with it.
*And then there is this, how might Afghanistan participate in global*
*humanitarian issues:* http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/afghan.html
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html
How about now? Do you want to fight now?
And if you were an Afghan Muslim, instead of a US citizen?
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 03-Nov-01 22:01:41 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>
> >You cannot co-exist with those that want you, Timmy, Dead. They want you
> >dead, do you not understand that? They want to kill every American they
> >can, do you not understand that?
>
> Who are they? Name them, each and every one.
Osama bin Laden, and follow the thread of people standing between us and
him. period, for starts. The Taliban, as they've vowed to defend
terrorists, and the world is not safe with terrorist training cams with
government protection.
> >Terrorism has no place in this world, not anywhere, not even as a "last
> >resort" to Timothy Rue's conspiracy theories.
>
> Seems to me that you need to step away from your computer, step away from
> you desk, step away from the building, step away from the complex, step
> away from the city, step away from the county, step away from the state,
> step away from the country, step away from the earth, where you can then
> see it, where you can see it all, for real.
>
> Instead of the small little speck of a world you imagine to be.
This IS the real world you freak, people are dying here, and your stupid
tabloid journalist mentality has no place in the "real" world. It really
bothers be that people sitting around smoking dope and reading the
enquirer think they know how to solve the worlds problems, when they
have more than they can handle managing their own life.
What REALLY bothers me is that many people are going to give their life
in defending your right to do just that. It's really sad.
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
(verbal diahria snipped)
> And if you were an Afghan Muslim, instead of a US citizen?
I would flee the presence of criminals, as the Muslim religion say's I
should.
Timothy Rue
>This IS the real world you freak,
You are just another sad person who believes you have to make
stuff up in order to make yourself feel better than another.
The kind of person that creates probelms that otherwise wouldn't
and don't really exist.
You have made very wrong claims about me.
I gotta wonder, given how there is always one here trolling me, how much
does it cost to hire someone to do what you do? You know, change
names/handles/accounts, so as to follow someone around and troll them?
And how does this effect the public accessible archive of usenet when
someone goes looking for communications from me?
defamation of character, character asasiniation, libel, slander, etc...
Certainly if your intent wasn't one of being counter productive, you'd at
least not be making crap up.
So it is very clear that you have no interest in:
http://www.ibm.com/research/autonomic
and how core functionality is identified
http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.html
and further more that's it's an open project.
You'd think some in the so called Amiga community might start realizing
how to put at least a little life back into the platform, even existing
systems.
But you clearly don't want that.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
wrote something about "Re: [OT] Funny dream..."...
> Once you really do get to know God, you will understand that what has
> happened on this earth is all part of His plan.
That must come as a great consolation to the millions who suffer every
day then, to know that such a caring God plans for them to suffer
through no fault of their own.
That'll come as considerable comfort to those who lose everything in
natural disasters, too, I expect.
Presumably all those people throughout the centuries who have been
slaughtered in "god's" name will also draw comfort that it was all part
of his "plan".
You'll forgive me if I sound just a LITTLE bit skeptical there, I
hope...
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 04-Nov-01 23:59:07 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>
> >This IS the real world you freak,
>
> You are just another sad person who believes you have to make
> stuff up in order to make yourself feel better than another.
You're the one making stuff up, normally I don't give a rats a** what
you carry on about, aliens, matrix, whatever, but when you minimise what
happened to the WTC, where real people were murdered for the crime of
showing up to work that day, it really ticks me off.
> The kind of person that creates probelms that otherwise wouldn't
> and don't really exist.
That's YOU Timmy, you and your 'Matrix is my life' crap and the 'crop
circle propoganda' you try and equate REAL LIFE terrorism to. I've lost
coworkers that I haven't seen in years, and one that I've met roughly 8
months ago in the attack. Problems that "don't exist?" How f*** dare
you! Tell that to the DEAD Timmy.
> You have made very wrong claims about me.
>
> I gotta wonder, given how there is always one here trolling me, how much
> does it cost to hire someone to do what you do? You know, change
> names/handles/accounts, so as to follow someone around and troll them?
Don't even start that crap Timmy, I'm flaming you because you damn well
deserved it, I've been very civil with you in the past, even when I
personally thought you had a screw loose, but your recent comments hit a
nerve.
As far as trolling, YOU are the one trolling, you are posting the
opinion that the victims were "asking for it" and had it coming to them,
after the largest act of terrorism here EVER, and you don't call that
trolling??? What kind of response did you expect anyone reading it to
have???
As for following you around, you really need to put the pipe down Timmy.
> And how does this effect the public accessible archive of usenet when
> someone goes looking for communications from me?
>
> defamation of character, character asasiniation, libel, slander, etc...
Oh bull****, except for mass murder, because that's justified, right?
> Certainly if your intent wasn't one of being counter productive, you'd at
> least not be making crap up.
>
> So it is very clear that you have no interest in:
>
> http://www.ibm.com/research/autonomic
>
> and how core functionality is identified
>
> http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/KNMVIC.html
>
> and further more that's it's an open project.
I suppose you're trying to piss me off and then throw the VIC into the
mix so you can claim I'm one of the black hats secretly hired to defame
you and your project? Not going to happen, I have no opinion on that
subject.
> You'd think some in the so called Amiga community might start realizing
> how to put at least a little life back into the platform, even existing
> systems.
How'd this get brought up? I'm offended at the disrespect you have for
the victims, therefore I'm Anti-Amiga?? Again, I have no opinion on that
either that I will take up with you.
> But you clearly don't want that.
Like I said you loon, I have ONE bone to pick with you, and that's the
WTC, you can save your VIC fight picking for someone else, I'm not
interested.
And as far as Usenet records go, if you check them you've tried to lure
me into talking about the VIC on a few occasions, and I didn't respond
negatively to it, some I didn't respond to at all. Somehow in your mind,
everything comes back to the VIC.
John Burns
>>Religion in an Amiga newsgroup! Who would've thought it could happen?
>LOL, defies all logic huh?
ROTFLMAO
Given that you were the one to bring the subject of religion into the thread then
I take it you are admitting to being illogical.
William F. Maddock
>What was it he was doing? Kabballah? And if so, why would he want them
>to witness it?
Nothing so underhanded about it at all. He was only trying to get them
to see that they were so weak that they couldn't even stay awake and
pray with Him.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 20:32:42 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are like goads, their
collected sayings like firmly embedded nails---given by one Shepherd.
William F. Maddock
Oh, so true! And the most effective method I have "witnessed" is when a
group of people will go to a local abortion clinic and just pray. I know
of one particular group that does this in my area. They go to a
particular clinic every day (rotating who is there, of course---they do
have jobs) and just pray. Sometimes the people going in and coming out
will come over and talk to them, or taunt them, but usually they'll just
pray, or hold a worship service outside---and the people that run the
clinic are twisting themselves in knots trying to rid themselves of this
group of people who are only praying.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 20:42:22 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
John 11:33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along
with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.
William F. Maddock
>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
I know of what I speak because I know Dr. Mare personally. He teaches my
Sunday School class. I know he does archeaology because I have
personally been in his museum and seen the artifacts that the Jordanian
government allowed him to bring home and I have seen photographs of
others that they kept in their own country. I know he studies a copy of
the Qu'ran because I have held it in my own hands. In three columns, it
has arabic script, a transliteration of that arabic script, and an
english translation of the arabic script. Dr. Mare knows Hebrew script,
and is learning the arabic script as part of his study on the subject.
He has held Biblical scrolls of the Essenes in his own hands, as have
other members of my class. The Essenes were Jews. While they were a
possibly cultic variant from the Jewish mainstream, they were Jews, and
they worshipped the same God of the Bible as Jews. He played a
significant role in the creation of the NIV translation of the Holy
Bible. His archeaological studies have contributed immensely to that
cause, and to the education of Christians. Do you have any clue what
Paul was refering to when he described the "catching up" of the
believers in 1 Thessalonians 4? An archeaological knowledge of the
civilization of that time would reveal the meaning of that text. Do you
know that "turn the other cheek" does *not* mean to roll over and play
dead? Again an archeaological knowledge of the civilization of that time
would reveal to you what Jesus was really telling his disciples when he
said, "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him also the
other cheek."
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 20:51:51 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
2 Chronicles 9:18 The throne had six steps, and a footstool of gold was
attached to it. On both sides of the seat were armrests, with a lion
standing beside each of them.
William F. Maddock
>Well I'm afraid he's wasting his time with me. However, given that he
>knows all time surely it was a bit naughty of him to start christianity
>since he obviously must have known all the death and misery which would
>ensue from this act.
Ah, but He uses the foolish to confound the wise. The fact that you
don't understand His ways is neither surprising nor evidence that He
isn't in control. It isn't surprising because anyone who claims to truly
understand Him is either God Himself, or is the very height of arrogant.
Remember, pride comes before the fall.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 21:11:19 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Acts 18:3 and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and
worked with them.
William F. Maddock
>No it ain't
Actually, it is. There is encouragement (see the later part of Isaiah 30
for an example), rebuke (see the first part of the same chapter for an
example), prophecy---which came true---coupled to instruction (which
happens all over the Bible).
>>and if you look at it, it's bleedin' obvious who's talking.
>Yes, you to yourself.
Well, most phsycologists (sp?) would probably agree with you, but then
most of them don't know the Lord, either (refer to 1 Corinthians 2:14).
>>Still it took me 13˝ months to convert to Christianity. People's
>>hearts are incredibly hard, I know.
>>Every last detail of that poem has come true---all of it.
>Wow, there was after all so much detail in it.
A text doesn't have to be long and drawn out to have a lot of detail.
What He said in those few short lines would have taken some, perhaps
most, people pages to say.
>Be honest there is an obvious difference between some thought coming
>into your head and seeing a truly miraculous event.
A truly miraculous event doesn't have to be visual, it just has to
unexplainable in any other way. "The Son will shine within your heart
again." There is so much just in that one line. All by itself it speaks
volumes about me---volumes that I didn't know about.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 21:17:12 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
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Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Leviticus 4:27 ś " `If a member of the community sins unintentionally
and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord's commands, he is guilty.
William F. Maddock
wrote:
That's OK, Keith, it's expected. But when you run across someone who has
lost everything, been slammed from all sides, perhaps even been
threatened with death unless they renounce their faith (sounds extreme
but it happens all the time *today* ) and they still hold staunchly to
that faith, even showing peace and joy in the face of everything that
they are facing, ask them why---then seriously listen to the answer.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 21:33:24 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
2 Corinthians 10:1 By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal
to you-- I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold"
when away!
William F. Maddock
>http://www.osearth.com/resources/wwwproject/
You know, Tim, Americans aren't perfect. It's no secret. They have an
annoying tendancy toward arrogance and a know-it-all attitude that
really pisses people off. The real truth about this situation is that
it's not about anything *under* the sun. But if you'll look up to Heaven
you'll find the answers and what may *seem* moot may actually be the key
to the whole mess.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 5-Nov-1 21:38:54 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Psalms 66:20 Praise be to God, who has not rejected my prayer or
withheld his love from me!
Keith Blakemore-Noble
wrote something about "Re: [OT] Funny dream..."...
> On 05-Nov-01 16:28:28 Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net Keith Blakemore-Noble
> wrote:
>
> >Hi there William F. Maddock, on or around 2 Nov 2001 19:53:32 -0600
> >you wrote something about "Re: [OT] Funny dream..."...
>
> >> Once you really do get to know God, you will understand that what
> >> has happened on this earth is all part of His plan.
>
> >That must come as a great consolation to the millions who suffer
> >every day then, to know that such a caring God plans for them to
> >suffer through no fault of their own.
>
> >That'll come as considerable comfort to those who lose everything
>
> >Presumably all those people throughout the centuries who have been
> >>slaughtered in "god's" name will also draw comfort that it was all
> >part of his "plan".
>
> >You'll forgive me if I sound just a LITTLE bit skeptical there, I
> >>hope...
>
> That's OK, Keith, it's expected. But when you run across someone who
> has lost everything, been slammed from all sides, perhaps even been
> threatened with death unless they renounce their faith (sounds
> extreme but it happens all the time *today* ) and they still hold
> staunchly to that faith, even showing peace and joy in the face of
> everything that they are facing, ask them why---then seriously listen
> to the answer.
That's all well and good William, but now go tell the victims of the
concentration camps just as they were being lead to the gas chambers
that it's OK, their suffering is all part of god's plan.
Go tell the relatives and friends of the 6,000 murdered 2 months ago
that it's OK, their deaths were all part of god's plan.
Go tell the person dying in agony from an incurable disease (who's life
is being pro-longed because Religious Groups refuse to allow the
government to consider voluntary euthanasia in cases of extreme and
terminal suffering) that their last years being in absoilute constant
agony are all part of god's plan.
Go tell the woman in Afghanistan that being stoned to death for daring
to be seen in public with a male who is not a relative is all part of
god's plan.
William, I am glad you have found comfort in your own personal beliefs,
but please do not try to push them on everyone else - just as you are
convinced there is a caring god, by looking round the world I am
equally convinced there is not - no "caring god" would allow what
continues to happen. Period.
Keith Blakemore-Noble
wrote something about "Re: [OT] Funny dream..."...
> >> Don't give up
> >> Keep your chin up
> >> The world does not revolve around your pain I love you
> >> You know I do
> >> The Son will shine within your heart again I know it
> >> hurts It may get worse
> >> The day will come when you can smile and then Look in
> >> your soul Let love take hold
> >> Let the treasure in your heart shine forth again
>
> >>Every last detail of that poem has come true---all of it.
>
> >Wow, there was after all so much detail in it.
>
> A text doesn't have to be long and drawn out to have a lot of detail.
> What He said in those few short lines would have taken some, perhaps
> most, people pages to say.
Pages to say that?
No way.
You can say it even more concisely to yourself -
"Cheer up, things can only get better. One day you'll look back on
this and laugh."
There you go.
Same message, fraction of the size.
> A truly miraculous event doesn't have to be visual, it just has to
> unexplainable in any other way. "The Son will shine within your heart
> again." There is so much just in that one line. All by itself it
> speaks volumes about me---volumes that I didn't know about.
Did you see or hear the words? That is actually a very important
question, btw.
Timothy Rue
>..... I'm flaming you ......
is that what you call it? anything else?
Timothy Rue
>On 03-Nov-01 10:46:13 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>What was it he was doing? Kabballah? And if so, why would he want them
>>to witness it?
>Nothing so underhanded about it at all. He was only trying to get them
>to see that they were so weak that they couldn't even stay awake and
>pray with Him.
"underhanded"? what an interesting choice of vocabulary.
Why not do as I requested and give the book, chapter and verse(s) where
this event is described?
Timothy Rue
>On 04-Nov-01 00:12:02 jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk John Burns wrote:
>>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
>John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
>to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
John knows that, so does Tparker.
Just ask them who they are and they will tell you legions.
Timothy Rue
>........................ But when you run across someone who has
>lost everything, been slammed from all sides, perhaps even been
>threatened with death unless they renounce their faith (sounds extreme
>but it happens all the time *today* ) and they still hold staunchly to
>that faith, even showing peace and joy in the face of everything that
>they are facing, ask them why---then seriously listen to the answer.
Shall I give an example?
Timothy Rue
>You know, Tim, Americans aren't perfect. It's no secret. They have an
>annoying tendancy toward arrogance and a know-it-all attitude that
>really pisses people off. The real truth about this situation is that
>it's not about anything *under* the sun. But if you'll look up to Heaven
>you'll find the answers and what may *seem* moot may actually be the key
>to the whole mess.
not being perfect is no excuse to continue to err, expecially once you
know the error and how to change it, or at least not do it. But that
doesn't seem to work, does it?
exactly where is "*under* the sun"? Yep you are right, it's not about
anything under the sun.
"look up to heaven" to "find the answers"..."what may *seem* moot may
actually be the key"...
yep again right.
As we are the creation of a creator(s) and given the task of going forth
and multiplying so as to be forced to deal with problems of social
structure brought on by population growth, while having the ultimate
target or goal of helping to expand what exist in existance.....
It is no doubt that expanding the population while solving growing social
problems will ultimately lead to a unification of world social structure
and related economy. And it is clear that abortion is contrary to the
given tasks, maybe as much as waring killing conflict is.
But to be waring and killing over common beliefs is not only wrong but
suggest that religion itself is a serious social problem to deal with.
Or do you think things will be done on earth as they are in heaven but
against the will of men and women? Meaning, it is our will for it to
happen, that is required before this happens.
And to get to that point, things need to be addressed on a priority level,
otherwise you may not yet have obtained what you need to solve issues
lower on the priority list. A list that has food and education for those
that are clearly human and alive, higher than those who are not yet there
and in need of these higher priority items. Those who are clearly not
wanted, perhaps due, at least in part, to lack of the existance of higher
priority items like food and education, and even love?
We have this tool that can assist us in finding solutions to many problems
we have, but we are not fully allowing it to be used. I wonder where it
falls on th epriority list?
John Burns
>>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
>John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
>to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
I agree however as I stated above if I truly wanted to debate these subjects,
which I don't, I would take them to a more appropriate place. Another of the
reasons why I am not going to continue this is I do not have the time, or
inclination if I'm being honest, to dig out the references to back up my points.
Religion has no bearing on either this NG or to the original premise of this
thread. So if you could, can you and Tim take this to a private correspondence
and let the rest of us wallow in our ungodly state.
John Burns
>>On 04-Nov-01 00:12:02 jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk John Burns wrote:
>>>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>>>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>>>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
>>John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
>>to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
>John knows that, so does Tparker.
Well you try to do this unfortunately it mostly turns into an unintelligable
mess. You certainly are trying to disprove the old adage about chimpanzees and
the complete works of Shakespeare.
>Just ask them who they are and they will tell you legions.
Actually the only personal question you ever asked me was my age which I told
you is 42, though you stated that you didn't believe me. How you equate this
to legions is beyond me but exageration has never been a problem for you. If
you don't like the answers you get then don't ask in the first place. I can
point to quite a few people who you have asked about their careers etc. on this
NG and when they have answered you have insinuated they are lying. Something you
never do, right. At least we don't just spout the first piece of crud which
enters our head then get ante when asked to back up such drivel. I'm still
waiting for your ~Proof~ that aliens are living on earth. So put up or shut up.
John Burns
>>No it ain't
These themes can also be found in other literature they do not necessarily
confer biblical status. This is just your interpretation.
>>>and if you look at it, it's bleedin' obvious who's talking.
>>Yes, you to yourself.
>Well, most phsycologists (sp?) would probably agree with you, but then
>most of them don't know the Lord, either (refer to 1 Corinthians 2:14).
Eh... right.
>>>Still it took me 13½ months to convert to Christianity. People's
>>>hearts are incredibly hard, I know.
>>>Every last detail of that poem has come true---all of it.
>>Wow, there was after all so much detail in it.
>A text doesn't have to be long and drawn out to have a lot of detail.
>What He said in those few short lines would have taken some, perhaps
>most, people pages to say.
Granted but there was nothing amazing in this. Let's be honest many can
read just as much into the horoscopes they read in the paper and similarly
they'll swear by them; doesn't prove they really work though or that there
is actually anything supernatural about the, merelu coincidence.
>>Be honest there is an obvious difference between some thought coming
>>into your head and seeing a truly miraculous event.
>A truly miraculous event doesn't have to be visual,
I was actually equating this with reference to the first comment.
>it just has to unexplainable in any other way. "The Son will shine within your heart
>again." There is so much just in that one line. All by itself it speaks
>volumes about me---volumes that I didn't know about.
And therein lies the problem with your argument this event is explainable
in other ways, if you don't believe this ask a Psychiatrist or Psychologist.
So by your own argument it ain't a miracle. Many people have had thoughts
which have fundamentally changed their lives though few ascribe these to God.
John Burns
>>In article <1308.707T2292T...@icon-stl.net>, wmaddock@icon-
>>stl.net says...
>Oh, so true! And the most effective method I have "witnessed" is when a
>group of people will go to a local abortion clinic and just pray. I know
>of one particular group that does this in my area. They go to a
>particular clinic every day (rotating who is there, of course---they do
>have jobs) and just pray. Sometimes the people going in and coming out
>will come over and talk to them, or taunt them, but usually they'll just
>pray, or hold a worship service outside---and the people that run the
>clinic are twisting themselves in knots trying to rid themselves of this
>group of people who are only praying.
It doesn't matter if they are only praying it is still intimidation ot those
going to the clinic. This is why the protestors do this, after all the
power of prayer (if it exists) should work equally well from their own home,
church, etc. No, I'm sorry but this is just another example of Religion trying
to impose it's doctrine on Society. Next you'll be wanting to stone people to
death for certain offences as prescibed in the Bible.
Tparker
thre...@earthlink.net says...
> On 05-Nov-01 20:08:10 Tparker <ke...@llyourspam.com> wrote:
>
> >..... I'm flaming you ......
>
> is that what you call it? anything else?
Nice snip Troll.
I've had enough of your crap, I hereby invoke my reserved right to the
Goddards Law invoked by your qualifying comment several posts ago.
*thread plonk*
Timothy Rue
[snip - see thread two post back for credit]
>It doesn't matter if they are only praying it is still intimidation ot those
>going to the clinic. This is why the protestors do this, after all the
>power of prayer (if it exists) should work equally well from their own home,
>church, etc. No, I'm sorry but this is just another example of Religion
>trying to impose it's doctrine on Society. Next you'll be wanting to stone
>people to death for certain offences as prescibed in the Bible.
The reason words in the dictionary work is because people agree upon their
use. Although you can choose to not quote credit, unlike the rest of us,
it helps people to follow who said what when you do. If you cannot set up
an automation of quoting, unlike most the rest of us, then at least
manually write "posters-name wrote:" at the top line of your responses.
Simply as a matter of consistancey. It also helps when you have responded
several times in a thread.
As to your comment above:
You are correct! Except for the stoning part. I believe there is something
Jesus said about the first one without sin can be the first to throw a
stone. Though your point is clear, perhaps the stone isn't, for as you are
refering to it, the stone can be from and intimidation presence to a jihad
against another.
However, the bill of rights does allow for peaceful assembly, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances. Meaning they should
be assembling in front of some government building, instead of an abortion
clinic? Where do Union Workers Petition when they want a better contract?
Hmmm, government and religion are separate intities and with this in mind,
doesn't this make stone throwing by those who are otherwise told it's
wrong in their beliefs, hypocritical? Of course you don't have to even be
religious to support freedom of life, you too can sponsor a child through
Christians Childrens Fund or any of the other like funds. Dollars spent in
protest in front of an abortion clinic (due loss of income from taking
time off, to material cost for signs, etc.) would save the lives of far
more children thru such a program as CCF, then the number of children that
will be saved, if any, in protesting in front of an abortion clinic.
And for those who have to small of mind to think this out, my words here
don't mean that I support abortion, though I'm sure in some cases it's a
reasonable thing to do (for even god aborts births, quite often I might
add). What my words communicate is a direction of making things better,
solving problems on a priority schedual, so that when things higher on the
list get marked off, the needed resources for going to the next things in
the list, will exist, making it possible to solve them too.
Timothy Rue
[snip - see thread two post back for credit]
>>Just ask them who they are and they will tell you legions.
>Actually the only personal question you ever asked me was my age which I told
> you is 42, though you stated that you didn't believe me. How you equate
>this to legions is beyond me but exageration has never been a problem for
>you.
The reference is to a case of demonic possession that is described in the
bible. I believe it is written that Jesus upon comming across a possesed
person asked of th edemon who they are, where they answered "we are
legion" of some such. Jesus eventually cast them out and allowed them to
enter a pig or some pigs who then ran off a cliff.
The relationship to my comment about you and Tparker is that you are both
possesed with the desire to make stuff up about me in order to argue and
try and put me down, like it's some game or so. Neither of you are the
first to do so, and I doubt you'll be the last as this demon seems to stay
around in this newsgroup giving me trouble. Perhaps the first was a guy
named George Noel, but eventually it was Aram too. All the people total,
who have participated in such deception does amount to a legion.
In the metaphor of the matrix, you all look the same to me. Being
deceptitively counter productive.
>...If you don't like the answers you get then don't ask in the first
>place. I can point to quite a few people who you have asked about their
>careers etc. on this NG and when they have answered you have insinuated they
>are lying. Something you never do, right. At least we don't just spout the
>first piece of crud which enters our head then get ante when asked to back
>up such drivel. I'm still waiting for your ~Proof~ that aliens are living
>on earth. So put up or shut up.
Good example of what I'm refering to. But I'm still waiting for you to
provide evidence or "proof" that I made such a claim. This being only one
of many claims you have wrongly made about me.
Timothy Rue
Who are you communicating with?
What was the original premise?
John Burns
>[snip - see thread two post back for credit]
>>>Just ask them who they are and they will tell you legions.
>>Actually the only personal question you ever asked me was my age which I
>>told
>> you is 42, though you stated that you didn't believe me. How you equate
>>this to legions is beyond me but exageration has never been a problem for
>>you.
>The reference is to a case of demonic possession that is described in the
>bible. I believe it is written that Jesus upon comming across a possesed
>person asked of th edemon who they are, where they answered "we are
>legion" of some such. Jesus eventually cast them out and allowed them to
>enter a pig or some pigs who then ran off a cliff.
Oh, right and we were supposed to deduce that were we.
>The relationship to my comment about you and Tparker is that you are both
>possesed with the desire to make stuff up about me in order to argue and
>try and put me down, like it's some game or so. Neither of you are the
>first to do so, and I doubt you'll be the last as this demon seems to stay
>around in this newsgroup giving me trouble. Perhaps the first was a guy
>named George Noel, but eventually it was Aram too. All the people total,
>who have participated in such deception does amount to a legion.
Name one thing I've made up about you. Come on I challenge you to produce
the details of my doing this. You should not judge everyone by your own standards.
Just because you are guilty of frequently doing this does not mean others do
the same, I certainly do not need to sink to such a level to win an argument.
By the way Tim if all these legions of people attack the things you say don't
you ever wonder why? Maybe it because of the fact that most of what you say
is not based on any actual evidence but merely the wild meanderings of your mind.
>In the metaphor of the matrix,
It's a sci-fi film Tim and IMHO not that great a one. That is, it's fiction,
not reality. Wake up.
>you all look the same to me. Being
>deceptitively counter productive.
In any conversation with you it is the deliberate dishonesty in your arguments
which is counter productive. What you say below is just another example.
>>...If you don't like the answers you get then don't ask in the first
>>place. I can point to quite a few people who you have asked about their
>>careers etc. on this NG and when they have answered you have insinuated
>>they are lying. Something you never do, right. At least we don't just
>>spout the first piece of crud which enters our head then get ante when
>>asked to back up such drivel. I'm still waiting for your ~Proof~ that
>>aliens are living on earth. So put up or shut up.
>Good example of what I'm refering to. But I'm still waiting for you to
>provide evidence or "proof" that I made such a claim. This being only one
>of many claims you have wrongly made about me.
Both lies of course. You have never requested that I provide proof of when
you made this claim and yes you did make it. Proof, Ok since you seem to have
such a selective memory let me jog it. Remember the Seti at home thread? No?
well here are the details. Read it and weep you dishonest little boy.
MESSAGE 1
From: "Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Amiga seti@home
Date: 19 Jun 2001 01:47:15 GMT
Message-id: <1151.569T1281T9...@earthlink.net>
Path: wards!landlord!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
References: <szsX6.275913$eK2.56...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc
X-Newsreader: THOR 2.6a (Amiga;TCP/IP)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.31.168
X-Complaints-To: ab...@earthlink.net
X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 992915235 207.69.31.168 (Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:47:15 PDT)
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Xref: landlord comp.sys.amiga.misc:83722
On 18-Jun-01 14:24:08 Darren Eveland <deve...@home.com> wrote:
>How come there are only 46 members on the Amiga Group? Surely more Amiga
>users have PC's either at work or home available to run
>Seti@home......please join the Amiga group! (RC5 is boring :)
>Darren
What if Alien contact is alot closer, like having been here for centuries?
END OF MESSAGE
And this is the reply you gave when I originally questioned this statement.
MESSAGE 2
From: "Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Amiga seti@home
Date: 22 Jun 2001 03:55:38 GMT
On 19-Jun-01 23:00:03 John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>>On 18-Jun-01 14:24:08 Darren Eveland <deve...@home.com> wrote:
>>>How come there are only 46 members on the Amiga Group? Surely more Amiga
>>>users have PC's either at work or home available to run
>>>Seti@home......please join the Amiga group! (RC5 is boring :)
>>>Darren
>>What if Alien contact is alot closer, like having been here for centuries?
>Pure conjecture based on _NO_ verifiable evidence.
Sorry but you'll have to find your own evidence. Maybe you should move to
Mexico city Mexico and take a course on how to properly track UFO
sightings or something. But don't expect a government that hasn't been put
into the position of looking stupid to the people it is supposed to be
serving if they deny what everyone is seeing, to tell you anything.
END OF MESSAGE
Again I questioned this and you replied
MESSAGE 3
From: "Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Amiga seti@home
Date: 23 Jun 2001 22:26:45 GMT
On 23-Jun-01 01:23:46 John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk> wrote:
>Firstly that people see UFOs is not evidence that aliens have been here for
>centuries which was the statement of yours which I challenged you to show
>evidence on. Tim you made the claim the onus of proof is on you not me.
What is it you do not understand about "Find your own evidence!"?
END OF MESSAGE
Now what was that you were saying about making up things?
So I take it I can expect both the proof for the claim you made and of course
an apology for you deliberate lie about my misrepresenting you. Or maybe you'll
just ignore this post as you usually do when you've been caught out.
John Burns
>[snip - see thread two post back for credit]
>>It doesn't matter if they are only praying it is still intimidation ot those
>>going to the clinic. This is why the protestors do this, after all the
>>power of prayer (if it exists) should work equally well from their own home,
>>church, etc. No, I'm sorry but this is just another example of Religion
>>trying to impose it's doctrine on Society. Next you'll be wanting to stone
>>people to death for certain offences as prescibed in the Bible.
>The reason words in the dictionary work is because people agree upon their
>use. Although you can choose to not quote credit, unlike the rest of us,
>it helps people to follow who said what when you do. If you cannot set up
>an automation of quoting, unlike most the rest of us, then at least
>manually write "posters-name wrote:" at the top line of your responses.
>Simply as a matter of consistancey. It also helps when you have responded
>several times in a thread.
Funny but the credit attribution to the comment I was replying to appears in
both my newsreader and also on the archive on Google. So either you snipped
it to make some sort of silly point or I suggest the fault is with your
newsreader.
>As to your comment above:
>You are correct! Except for the stoning part. I believe there is something
>Jesus said about the first one without sin can be the first to throw a
>stone. Though your point is clear, perhaps the stone isn't, for as you are
>refering to it, the stone can be from and intimidation presence to a jihad
>against another.
Actually I was correct in the stoning part also as the Bible does prescribe
stoning for some offences. Irrespective of what Jesus is supposed to have
said.
[SNIP]
John Burns
>>>On 04-Nov-01 00:12:02 jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk John Burns wrote:
>>>>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>>>>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>>>>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
>>>John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
>>>to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
>>I agree however as I stated above if I truly wanted to debate these
>>subjects,
>> which I don't, I would take them to a more appropriate place. Another of
>>the reasons why I am not going to continue this is I do not have the time,
>>or inclination if I'm being honest, to dig out the references to back up my
>>points.
>>Religion has no bearing on either this NG or to the original premise of this
>>thread. So if you could, can you and Tim take this to a private
>>correspondence and let the rest of us wallow in our ungodly state.
>Who are you communicating with?
Let me think, readers of this NG/thread perhaps? Not being psychic of course
I can't actually name them.
>What was the original premise?
That someone had a dream (nightmare I'd say ;) ) in which you appeared. It was
you who then started spouting off about religion, which as usual with a lot of
your posts had nothing to do with the original subject.
John Burns
>Nice snip Troll.
>*thread plonk*
I wouldn't worry about it this is one of Tim's favourite tactics in arguments;
To snip comments in an effort to misrepresent the original post.
Unfortunately for Tim, since, unlike him, others don't have the attention span
of a fruit fly, we all see through his ploy.
William F. Maddock
wrote:
>William, I am glad you have found comfort in your own personal beliefs,
>but please do not try to push them on everyone else - just as you are
>convinced there is a caring god, by looking round the world I am
>equally convinced there is not - no "caring god" would allow what
>continues to happen. Period.
The difference between us, Keith, is that I refuse to blame God for the
actions taken by men, of their own free will. God understands that love
cannot be forced, so He allows men to choose whether to love or not to
love because only by that freedom of choice is it possible to have love
at all. As for "voluntary" euthanasia, if you do the research thoroughly
you will find that much of that vaunted euthanasia isn't so voluntary.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 20:40:19 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Proverbs 3:25 Have no fear of sudden disaster or of the ruin that
overtakes the wicked,
William F. Maddock
>On 05-Nov-01 22:10:20 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>>On 04-Nov-01 00:12:02 jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk John Burns wrote:
>>>I do not intend to respond to this thread again since it is so off
>>>topic and if I truly wished to discuss religion and theology I would
>>>take it either to an appropriate NG or privately.
>>John, in electronic media you can throw around all the claims you want
>>to. All it proves is that you can throw words together at a keyboard.
>John knows that, so does Tparker.
>Just ask them who they are and they will tell you legions.
LOL! :)
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:23:15 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
2 Kings 4:7 She went and told the man of God, and he said, "Go, sell
the oil and pay your debts. You and your sons can live on what is left."
William F. Maddock
>On 05-Nov-01 21:34:38 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>>On 03-Nov-01 10:46:13 thre...@earthlink.net Timothy Rue wrote:
>>>What was it he was doing? Kabballah? And if so, why would he want
>>>them to witness it?
>>Nothing so underhanded about it at all. He was only trying to get them
>>to see that they were so weak that they couldn't even stay awake and
>>pray with Him.
>"underhanded"? what an interesting choice of vocabulary.
>Why not do as I requested and give the book, chapter and verse(s) where
>this event is described?
It is addressed in two parallel passages, Matthew 26:36-46 as well as
Mark 14:32-42.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:21:01 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Hosea 8:3 But Israel has rejected what is good; an enemy will pursue
him.
William F. Maddock
wrote:
>Pages to say that?
>No way.
>There you go.
Nope. Misses the heart and soul and guts of it. He didn't say it can
only get better. He said that it may get worse, and it did get worse,
even coming close to ending a marriage. But benefits wound up coming out
of the painful situation that developed *after* these words were given
to me. A cycle of adultery in my friend's life was broken because, in
the end, I refused to be swept into it. I was given a new life that I do
not deserve by any stretch. This just barely scratches the surface, and
that from just the seventh, eighth, and ninth lines.
>> A truly miraculous event doesn't have to be visual, it just has to
>> unexplainable in any other way. "The Son will shine within your heart
>> again." There is so much just in that one line. All by itself it
>> speaks volumes about me---volumes that I didn't know about.
>Did you see or hear the words? That is actually a very important
>question, btw.
When you are writing a letter to someone, how do the words come to mind?
And yet, though I know I can't prove this, and it boggles the mind to
describe, I knew it was not my thought, but had been placed there from
outside of my mind. There was a stamp of "otherness" to it. Before, I
had been on the verge of shedding tears of despair, but after, I wept
tears of joy. As incredible as that sounds, it is true. I had nearly
wanted to die, but after that touch---which, in the spirit, it is---I
could have hugged the world. Here I was, an atheist, being touched by
God Himself. Why!?!? What had I ever done except deny Him and live
exactly the opposite of how He calls us to live? It is so unfathomable,
let alone describable. Yet there He was, and is, and ever will be. I
didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it now. But there He is anyway. How
can I not want other people to know this same love? How can I not share
this magnificent gift? It's like a man, blind from birth, suddenly being
able to see. But how does he describe his new sight to those who are
still blind? How can they understand until they, too, are given sight?
God, open their eyes that they might also see!
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 20:45:25 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
St. Louis, Missouri, USA ftp://ftp.icon-stl.net/users/wmaddock
Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Nehemiah 3:24 Next to him, Binnui son of Henadad repaired another
section, from Azariah's house to the angle and the corner,
William F. Maddock
>On 05-Nov-01 22:37:56 William F. Maddock <wmad...@icon-stl.net> wrote:
>>........................ But when you run across someone who has
>>lost everything, been slammed from all sides, perhaps even been
>>threatened with death unless they renounce their faith (sounds extreme
>>but it happens all the time *today* ) and they still hold staunchly to
>>that faith, even showing peace and joy in the face of everything that
>>they are facing, ask them why---then seriously listen to the answer.
>Shall I give an example?
The Christians in Sudan, or Vietnam, or China, or pretty much any Muslim
nation would suffice as examples, if people were open-minded and willing
to look into them without preconceived notions.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:25:05 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
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Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Matthew 12:48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my
brothers?"
William F. Maddock
John, if I'm not mistaken, "legions" is a Biblical reference. :)
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:29:47 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
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Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
1 Samuel 26:24 As surely as I valued your life today, so may the LORD
value my life and deliver me from all trouble."
William F. Maddock
>William F. Maddock wrote:
>>On 04-Nov-01 00:50:07 jo...@grizo.free-online.co.uk John Burns wrote:
>>Actually, it is. There is encouragement (see the later part of Isaiah
>>30 for an example), rebuke (see the first part of the same chapter for
>>an example), prophecy---which came true---coupled to instruction
>>(which happens all over the Bible).
>These themes can also be found in other literature they do not
>necessarily confer biblical status. This is just your interpretation.
>>>>and if you look at it, it's bleedin' obvious who's talking.
>>>Yes, you to yourself.
>>Well, most psychologists would probably agree with you, but then most
>>of them don't know the Lord, either (refer to 1 Corinthians 2:14).
>Eh... right.
Did you read the verse?
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things
that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness
to him and he cannot understand them because they are
spiritually discerned."
It's like expecting a computer with only a floppy drive to read a zip
disk. The zip disk can be full of vital data, and the floppy drive
functioning perfectly. But that computer still can't make any sense out
of what's on that zip disk until it is given a zip drive to read it in.
Oh, how I wish you could have been there and known me at the time.
Knowing the details would be so helpful here. It was what happened in
the 13½ months that *followed* that day that opened my eyes to who it
was that gave me those words. At the time it came, I was an atheist, and
when I wrote it down, I spelled it "sun", not "Son", so I missed it,
too, even though I'm the one it happened to.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:33:22 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
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Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Matthew 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?
William F. Maddock
>>On 03-Nov-01 21:54:17 ke...@llyourspam.com Tparker wrote:
>>>In article <1308.707T2292T...@icon-stl.net>,
>>>wmaddock@icon- stl.net says...
>>Oh, so true! And the most effective method I have "witnessed" is when
>>a group of people will go to a local abortion clinic and just pray. I
>>know of one particular group that does this in my area. They go to a
>>particular clinic every day (rotating who is there, of course---they
>>do have jobs) and just pray. Sometimes the people going in and coming
>>out will come over and talk to them, or taunt them, but usually
>>they'll just pray, or hold a worship service outside---and the people
>>that run the clinic are twisting themselves in knots trying to rid
>>themselves of this group of people who are only praying.
>It doesn't matter if they are only praying it is still intimidation of
>those going to the clinic. This is why the protestors do this, after
>all the power of prayer (if it exists) should work equally well from
>their own home, church, etc. No, I'm sorry but this is just another
>example of Religion trying to impose it's doctrine on Society. Next
>you'll be wanting to stone people to death for certain offences as
>prescibed in the Bible.
You'd be an awful lot more comfortable about it if they were actually
doing what the media constantly accuses them of doing, wouldn't you? As
it is, they're not bothering anyone. They're not harrassing anyone.
They're only praying. If someone *does* approach them, they're happy to
talk to the person. They'll even offer to help with the pregnancy, and
help with the troubles and expense of keeping and raising the baby, or
giving the baby up for adoption, should the person choose not to have an
abortion. Through this gentle, quiet approach they are having such an
effect that the abortion clinics are doing everything they can think of
to try and get rid of them. The only ones intimidated are the clinics.
--
William F. Maddock ICQ:14668944 http://www.icon-stl.net/~wmaddock
Time: 8-Nov-1 21:45:54 CDT Jesus Saves mailto:wmad...@icon-stl.net
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Team AMIGA Written using THOR 2.6a Registered User Number 1621
--
Matthew 19:18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, "`Do not
murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false
testimony,
Timothy Rue
>How much money has been rasied so far for the 9/11 funds?
Hmmm, Bush was in town (both of them - CDC & WCC) and he said over 1
billion dollars have been raised for the victims of the WTC/Pentagon
victims (actually he didn't say Pentagon).
>I don't know but do know the CCF funds are and will be helping far more
>people.
>http://www.osearth.com/resources/wwwproject/
Imagine that, less than two months to raise over 1 billion.
That works out to over $175,000 per victim. Or over 503 years of
sponsorship of one child. Or over 25 sponsorship for 20 years.
of course over 1 billion divided by $348 per year puts it near 3 million
one year sponsorships.
Current total amount going thru CCF for fiscal year 2001 is $105.9
million to program/services to children
According to osearth, $19 billion is needed to eliminate starvation and
malnutrition.
at 1 billion raised in two months, that's 38 months to raise 19 billion.
I really don't want to hear about right to lifers picketing abortion
clinics when the money they spend in doing so could be better spent.
John Burns
>>Pages to say that?
>>No way.
>>There you go.
Ain't prophecies great things. "It may get worse" kind of hedging his
bets isn't he, funny really for a being that you perceive to be all knowing.
Why didn't he say it will get worse, after all this did happen and it would
show he had truly known what would happen. Let's face it if I say "you may
get knocked down while crossing the road tomorrow." I can't really lose can
I, especially if it happens (though I would hope it didn't).
>>> A truly miraculous event doesn't have to be visual, it just has to
>>> unexplainable in any other way. "The Son will shine within your heart
>>> again." There is so much just in that one line. All by itself it
>>> speaks volumes about me---volumes that I didn't know about.
>>Did you see or hear the words? That is actually a very important
>>question, btw.
>When you are writing a letter to someone, how do the words come to mind?
>And yet, though I know I can't prove this, and it boggles the mind to
>describe, I knew it was not my thought, but had been placed there from
>outside of my mind. There was a stamp of "otherness" to it. Before, I
>had been on the verge of shedding tears of despair, but after, I wept
>tears of joy. As incredible as that sounds, it is true. I had nearly
>wanted to die, but after that touch---which, in the spirit, it is---I
>could have hugged the world. Here I was, an atheist, being touched by
>God Himself. Why!?!? What had I ever done except deny Him and live
>exactly the opposite of how He calls us to live? It is so unfathomable,
>let alone describable. Yet there He was, and is, and ever will be. I
>didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it now. But there He is anyway. How
>can I not want other people to know this same love? How can I not share
>this magnificent gift? It's like a man, blind from birth, suddenly being
>able to see. But how does he describe his new sight to those who are
>still blind? How can they understand until they, too, are given sight?
>God, open their eyes that they might also see!
Actually it reminds me more of a person who has given up smoking becoming
evangelical in their campaign to stop all smoking. Your own para tends
to suggest that it is up to God to make people, such as myself, see the light.
Not you, since only he can perform a similar miracle, (and it certainly would
be ;) ), on me.
John Burns
Yes Tim mentioned this already though I'm sure you will agree that due to the
way he phrased it my misunderstanding of his meaning was understandable.