I have found paradise
Acid Queen
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>
>A place in Thailand called Phuket
>
>www.phuket.com
phuket in a bucket!
---
Michael McIntyre | USDA zone 6a in sw VA
Silvan Pagan Dragon -=UDIC=- | silvan...@ultima-dragons.org
d+ e- N+ T+ Om+++ U123456!7!S!8!9! u++ uC++ uF- uG uLB- uA++
nC+ nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++++ nT+ wM---- wC--- wS---- o--- oE----
y+ a29
Tel
<AcidQ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>A place in Thailand called Phuket
indeed, but wait.. you mean Thailand is paradise for ladies too? 8)
--
Tel
The Last Days of Dracos Dragon
>
>A place in Thailand called Phuket
>
>www.phuket.com
Pity it's pronounced 'Poo-ket' (according to my mother, who spent four
years in Thailand working for SEATO).
And I'm still awaiting that e-mail you promised me...
--
The Last Days of Dracos Dragon
UDICs resident (and unacting) -=<Bluebeard>=-
The World's Cuddliest Misanthrope (1 year running)
homepages.paradise.net.nz/dracos/index.html
Soon to be reincarnated as Mr. Hieronymus Oliphant Ransome,
MHM, PhD(DNS)
Amurath
> While listening to Eris and Stith'ctib HOR did hear Acid Queen say...
>> A place in Thailand called Phuket
>>
>> www.phuket.com
>
> Pity it's pronounced 'Poo-ket' (according to my mother, who spent
> four years in Thailand working for SEATO).
Makes me think of that show, "Keeping up Appearances" where the
woman's last name is Bucket, but she insists that it be
pronounced 'bouquet' :)
-Amurath Dragon
Acid Queen
dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz says...
> While listening to Eris and Stith'ctib HOR did hear Acid Queen say...
>
> >
> >A place in Thailand called Phuket
> >
> >www.phuket.com
>
> Pity it's pronounced 'Poo-ket'
As in Bouquet? ;)
I was afraid to ask. I don't know the woman well - she just bought
something from me and mentioned she was going there on holiday. When I
went to the web page, I got quite silly - I cannot take Phuket Business
or Phuket Hotels at all seriously, and when it gets to Phuket Photo
Tours the mind boggles.
> (according to my mother, who spent four
> years in Thailand working for SEATO).
But there is no doubting the pronunciation of Bangkok - a word with its
own peculiar and somewhat evocative charm. :)
> And I'm still awaiting that e-mail you promised me...
Dagnabbit - I prolly owe you about 3 by now. Has been a busy time. New
house, thought I was going to die etc.
But I will fulfill the Promise. Didn't that include Wtcher as well?
AQ
Submersible
<AcidQ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> And I'm still awaiting that e-mail you promised me...
>
>Dagnabbit - I prolly owe you about 3 by now. Has been a busy time. New
>house, thought I was going to die etc.
>
>But I will fulfill the Promise. Didn't that include Wtcher as well?
*waves*
>%)
--Submersible.
Acid Queen
cs9...@eim.surrey.ac.uk says...
<laughs> Different e-mail! This is getting embarrassing. At least you
know it's nothing personal. I'm just the pits at responding to e-mail.
AQ
AQ
Wtcher Dragon
> > And I'm still awaiting that e-mail you promised me...
>
> Dagnabbit - I prolly owe you about 3 by now. Has been a busy time. New
> house, thought I was going to die etc.
>
> But I will fulfill the Promise. Didn't that include Wtcher as well?
Quite alright. I consider it a gift from you when I receive one, so ;)
The Last Days of Dracos Dragon
>> Pity it's pronounced 'Poo-ket'
>
>As in Bouquet? ;)
For reasons beyond my control I'm now having visions of a reality TV show
called 'When Good Husbands go Bad!' (or possibly 'Harried Husbands Living
in Hell') where Richard (her husband) goes mad and kills the wretched
Bouquet woman. Wretched, I say, wretched.
Hmm... I almost sounded like a Coro Street character there.
Samurai
[munch]
>Hmm... I almost sounded like a Coro Street character there.
You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\//// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a25
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
The Chao Bell
> A place in Thailand called Phuket
>
> www.phuket.com
Hee. I believe it.
I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
It first occurred to me that Phuc was a cool kid when I realized that he
could have just gone by a nickname like Joe or something, but he got a
good giggle out of watching subs eep and wibble over his name and then
timidly spell it out.
--
Selece Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
Chao Bell Software holy...@cybernothing.org
===================================================
In the last six months, I've bought ~$400 worth of
CD's I might not have if I hadn't been able to
sample the MP3's off Napster. Boycott the RIAA!
===================================================
http://www.cybernothing.org/~holychao
http://www.kekkai.org/holychao
http://www.io.com/~holychao
Helgraf Dragon
Heh... that makes two of us...
--
Helgraf Dragon, the NSA Dragon, Liason to Echelon
A Chronicler of the Circle of Dragons, King of Sloth
__ The Exodus of the *Other Side*; Plonk Count : 5
/__\ d++ e++ N T-- Om+ U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!KA!L!
/|__|\ u+++ uC++ uF uG++ uLB+ uA++ nC+ nH+ nP+ nI+ nPT nS++
|----| nT+ y++ a27;a1728 When home is a torus, expect
|_||_| curves. Fossil; Mao Count : 5, Psychological torch
Dalboz Dragon
<holy...@cybernothing.org> earned a wedgie by saying:
>On Jul 13 Acid Queen sat down and scribbled thusly:
>
>> A place in Thailand called Phuket
>>
>> www.phuket.com
>
>Hee. I believe it.
>
>I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
>supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
>substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
Some real people's same I saw on a segment of a show on TV:
Mike Hunt
Charles Cock (whose sister is Anita Cock)
Dick Hertz
Jack Hoff
Fuk Yu
--
Dalboz Dragon -=(UDIC and Member of CLOUDS)=-
AIM: BeerStud362
ICQ: 14285834
Maos earned: 1
--------------
d+++ e+ N+ T+ Om+ U147'S'9!KL u- uC+ uF- uG++ uLB+ uA+
nC++ nH nP+ nI++ nPT nS+ nT o oA+++ y+++ a23
--------------
"I would rather die than forsake any one of them."
- Tenchi Muyo!
Darien Dragon
Oooh, I love that one. :) Though it's been a while.
"The bucket woman!"
>-Amurath Dragon
>
>
>
--
Darien Dragon
--==(UDIC)==--
"She killed it Peg. You made it sick, but Marcy killed it."
Darien Dragon
<Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote:
>Quoth dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz (The Last Days of Dracos Dragon):
>[munch]
>>Hmm... I almost sounded like a Coro Street character there.
>
>You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
>Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
Didn't Coro just turn 40? That is one old series.
>--
> ___________________________________________________________
> \^\^//
>,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
> | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
> \ `^--^ \\\\//// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
> \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a25
>ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Darien Dragon
<Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote:
>Quoth dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz (The Last Days of Dracos Dragon):
>[munch]
>>Hmm... I almost sounded like a Coro Street character there.
>
>You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
>Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
Are you Being Served?
Mulberry, Faulty Towers. etc. :)
>--
> ___________________________________________________________
> \^\^//
>,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
> | \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
> \ `^--^ \\\\//// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
> \ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a25
>ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Halfelven Dragon
wrote:
>>> A place in Thailand called Phuket
>>>
>>> www.phuket.com
>>
>>Hee. I believe it.
>>
>>I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
>>supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
>>substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
>
>Some real people's same I saw on a segment of a show on TV:
>
>Mike Hunt
>Charles Cock (whose sister is Anita Cock)
>Dick Hertz
>Jack Hoff
>Fuk Yu
a friend of my parents goes by the name of Dick Ball by choice (as
opposed to any other variant of Richard).
>
>--
>Dalboz Dragon -=(UDIC and Member of CLOUDS)=-
>AIM: BeerStud362
>ICQ: 14285834
>Maos earned: 1
>--------------
>d+++ e+ N+ T+ Om+ U147'S'9!KL u- uC+ uF- uG++ uLB+ uA+
>nC++ nH nP+ nI++ nPT nS+ nT o oA+++ y+++ a23
>--------------
>"I would rather die than forsake any one of them."
>- Tenchi Muyo!
--
The Halfelven
-=(UDIC)=-
Not tonight honey, I have bandwidth.
Michael McIntyre
>I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
>supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
>substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
*chortle*
>It first occurred to me that Phuc was a cool kid when I realized that he
>could have just gone by a nickname like Joe or something, but he got a
>good giggle out of watching subs eep and wibble over his name and then
>timidly spell it out.
It's a hard road sometimes getting people to call you what you want them
to.
"Mathers, Elizabeth?"
"Here. Beth."
"OK, Beth. Mak... Mak... Mak in try? Mak in try, David?"
*sigh* "Here. McIntyre, Michael."
"Mike?"
"Michael."
"Mike?"
*sigh*
"MICHAEL."
In most cases, I had to settle for being "Mike.....al"
Hell, I'm a grown-up now and I STILL can't get people to call me by my
fucking NAME. I detest being called "mike." Worse still is "mack" which
is my current name at work. We have two "mikes" (EXCEPT i'M NOT A MIKE
GODDAMMIT MY NAME IS MICHAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!) so now we have "mack" and "king"
because most people are too lazy/sorry/stupid to get out all three
horrifying syllables of that most difficult tongue-twister that is
"McIntyre."
*sigh*
Phuket.
Samurai
>Acid Queen wrote:
[munch]
>> <laughs> Different e-mail! This is getting embarrassing. At least
>> you know it's nothing personal. I'm just the pits at responding
>> to e-mail.
>
Far more than two, my dear boy. I make up at least that many on my
own, with my 18-month backlog. <:) I believe Dis is one of the folks
still waiting for a reply, too -- but I've been too scared to open my
inbox lately to check...
Samurai
>Samurai <Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote:
>>Quoth dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz (The Last Days of Dracos Dragon):
[munch]
>>Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
>
>Didn't Coro just turn 40? That is one old series.
Longest continuously running drama in the world, I believe.
And FWIW, the short forms of reference for it in the UK are either
Corrie or The Street. Prior to Dracos's post, I'd actually never
heard it called Coro before. :)
Michael McIntyre
>
>Mike Hunt
>Charles Cock (whose sister is Anita Cock)
>Dick Hertz
>Jack Hoff
>Fuk Yu
John Dick (whose wife is Ima Dick) (relative of my wife)
Ummmm....
Damn... I guess that's the only one I can dredge up.
Samurai
>>You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
>>Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
>
>Are you Being Served?
Has its moments, but not many. It's generally regarded as extremely
dated in the UK.
>Mulberry,
Never heard of it. <:)
>Faulty Towers. etc. :)
Fawlty. At least you get /some/ good stuff. :)
Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
> because most people are too lazy/sorry/stupid to get out all three
> horrifying syllables of that most difficult tongue-twister that is
> "McIntyre."
>
> *sigh*
Heh. I have an aunt with the last name Czapla, and whenever I field
phone calls for her by those evil telephone salespeople, I have the
funniest time hearing just about every possible variant on its
pronunciation.
And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in 'mik'
extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
-Lumina Dragon
Paulon
addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>And FWIW, the short forms of reference for it in the UK are either
>Corrie or The Street. Prior to Dracos's post, I'd actually never
>heard it called Coro before. :)
I call it Constipation Street.
--
Paulon Dragon d++ e- N T+ Om U1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC+ uF uG uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nI nPT nS+ nT+ y?
The Other Codex http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~paulryan/Ultima/
Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
Ultima VII endgame.exe file
Negate the Spell to Wish me Well...
Samurai
>With a deafening roar and a whoosh of spray, Samurai swings about and
>addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>>And FWIW, the short forms of reference for it in the UK are either
>>Corrie or The Street. Prior to Dracos's post, I'd actually never
>>heard it called Coro before. :)
>
>I call it Constipation Street.
*grin* As good a name as any!
Samurai
[munch]
>Heh. I have an aunt with the last name Czapla, and whenever I field
>phone calls for her by those evil telephone salespeople, I have the
>funniest time hearing just about every possible variant on its
>pronunciation.
I'm guessing CHAR-pla, but that's based purely on the old
Czechoslovakia. :)
>And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in
>'mik' extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
If it's anything like the British pronunciation, it'll be MAK-in-tire.
Acid Queen
to.address says...
> Quoth dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz (The Last Days of Dracos Dragon):
> [munch]
> >Hmm... I almost sounded like a Coro Street character there.
>
> You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
> Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
Neither, although KUA is on a lot here. I loathe the woman, her wimpy
husband and ghastly relatives. My desire to personally throttle Richard
overwhelms anything Dracos could ever conceive.
Hmm. Dunno about the Revoker, though...
And BBC America, come to that. A major disappointment. Unless the beeb
has changed substantially, of course. They seem to have selected what
they think will appeal to Americans, and show crap like the East Enders
for 20 hours in a row. Like we didn't have enough soap operas.
At least the US ones aren't kitchen sink.
AQ
Acid Queen
to.address says...
> Quoth dar...@ultima-dragons.org (Darien Dragon):
> >Samurai <Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote:
> [munch]
> >>You guys are subjected to the Street as well as Keeping Up
> >>Appearances? You have my sympathies. :)
> >
> >Are you Being Served?
>
> Has its moments, but not many. It's generally regarded as extremely
> dated in the UK.
>
> >Mulberry,
>
> Never heard of it. <:)
>
> >Faulty Towers. etc. :)
>
> Fawlty. At least you get /some/ good stuff. :)
In West Virginia of all place we got Yes Minister and YPM. Thanks to
Black Star, and a PAL player/converter, I now have the whole series.
It's amazing - I can buy videos from them, and have 'em shipped air
cheaper than I can get things here.
AQ
Acid Queen
holy...@cybernothing.org says...
> On Jul 13 Acid Queen sat down and scribbled thusly:
>
> > A place in Thailand called Phuket
> >
> > www.phuket.com
>
> Hee. I believe it.
>
> I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
> supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
> substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
>
> It first occurred to me that Phuc was a cool kid when I realized that he
> could have just gone by a nickname like Joe or something, but he got a
> good giggle out of watching subs eep and wibble over his name and then
> timidly spell it out.
Yeah - a friend of my son's from Bangkok had something similar, and he
was the same. Some people failed to see the humour, though.
AQ
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in 'mik'
>extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
Not really... Mc is just an abbreviated variant of Mac, Gaelic/Irish for
"son of," so it's Mak-in-tire. It's the Y that really throws people off...
It's not really that uncommon a name, and it's not like we don't have a
high concentration of Scots settlers in this region, but for some reason
McIntyre just eludes most people.
(Incidentally, the original and most correct spelling of my name is Mac
an-t-Saoir, pronounced, evidently, the same way... Now THAT I could
understand causing confusion... :)
Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:00:18 -0500, Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in 'mik'
> >extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
>
> Not really... Mc is just an abbreviated variant of Mac, Gaelic/Irish for
> "son of," so it's Mak-in-tire. It's the Y that really throws people off...
Ah. Would have been my second guess, as I have heard the name pronounced
that way. It was just the Mc/Mac distinction that threw me off.
> It's not really that uncommon a name, and it's not like we don't have a
> high concentration of Scots settlers in this region, but for some reason
> McIntyre just eludes most people.
It doesn't elude me. THen again, my younger brother is a fan of MASH
reruns, and I've seen enough with him to know that one of the characters
in that had the last name M(a)cIntyre, thus I had a basis for
pronunciation.
> (Incidentally, the original and most correct spelling of my name is Mac
> an-t-Saoir, pronounced, evidently, the same way... Now THAT I could
> understand causing confusion... :)
Heh.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Samurai wrote:
>
> Quoth Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>:
> [munch]
> >Heh. I have an aunt with the last name Czapla, and whenever I field
> >phone calls for her by those evil telephone salespeople, I have the
> >funniest time hearing just about every possible variant on its
> >pronunciation.
>
> I'm guessing CHAR-pla, but that's based purely on the old
> Czechoslovakia. :)
Polish, actually (yes, UDIC members, I'm half Polish :P). And while we
geenrally pronounce it "ZA-pla" (first a as in cat, second a as in
fall), the original pronunciation was close to your guess, at "CHA-pla"
(both a's as in fall).
> >And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in
> >'mik' extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
>
> If it's anything like the British pronunciation, it'll be MAK-in-tire.
As I replied to SP, that would have been my second chocie, but te lack
of a in the Mc threw me off.
-Lumina Dragon
Destrius
the entity named The Last Days of Dracos Dragon
(dra...@uriel.paradise.net.nz)
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
-clip-
> Pity it's pronounced 'Poo-ket' (according to my mother, who spent four
> years in Thailand working for SEATO).
-clip-
Yup, it is. Popular getaway for people over here.
--
+----------------------------------------------+
| Destrius <dest rius @ big foot.com> |
| http://99s31.hjc.edu.sg/users/harmos +----------------------------+
+---------------------------------------| He walks away, |
| Remove spaces in email address | Leaving nothing |
+---------------------------------------| But a notion of his music. |
+----------------------------+
Whreky
>> > A place in Thailand called Phuket
>> >
>> > www.phuket.com
>>
>> Hee. I believe it.
>>
>> I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
>> supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
>> substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
>>
Imagine my sister's friends in high school- two sisters from Thailand, whose
names were Suchada and Ankanya Abvhivahntahniporn.
~~O^O~~
Optician Dragon
-==UDIC==-
Who IS this guy Art, and why does he have so many museums?
Samurai
>Samurai wrote:
[munch]
>> I'm guessing CHAR-pla, but that's based purely on the old
>> Czechoslovakia. :)
>
>Polish, actually (yes, UDIC members, I'm half Polish :P).
Most Eastern European languages share a common root, so I consider
that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course, but
the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
>And while we geenrally pronounce it "ZA-pla" (first a as in cat,
>second a as in fall),
Any particular reason for the change?
>the original pronunciation was close to your guess, at "CHA-pla"
>(both a's as in fall).
Considering how badly you 'Mercans mangle the pronunciation of your
'a's, I'd say I was pretty much spot on. >:D
[munch]
>> MAK-in-tire.
>
>As I replied to SP, that would have been my second chocie, but te
>lack of a in the Mc threw me off.
It never bothered John McEnroe. :) FWIW, I've never heard McIntyre
pronounced any other way than the one I cited.
Singing Dragon
> Quoth Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>:
>>Samurai wrote:
> [munch]
>>> I'm guessing CHAR-pla, but that's based purely on the old
>>> Czechoslovakia. :)
>>
>>Polish, actually (yes, UDIC members, I'm half Polish :P).
>
> Most Eastern European languages share a common root, so I consider
> that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course, but
> the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
Of course, Czechoslovakians isn't and never was a language, now was
it? (Czech and Slovak are two different things, unless I'm very very
wrong. <G>)
--
Singing Dragon
-- Don't forget to *enjoy* the *sauce* --
- UnSpluttable -
- 1 Boa point -
Samurai
>My, Samurai, what a big post you have!
That's what the girls tell me. ;)
[munch]
>> Most Eastern European languages share a common root, so I consider
>> that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course,
>> but the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
>
>Of course, Czechoslovakians isn't and never was a language, now was
>it?
I never said it was. I merely took the pronunciation of "Cz" in the
name directly from Czechoslovakia.
>Czech and Slovak are two different things, unless I'm very very
>wrong. <G>)
Particularly now, hence my comments about Czechoslovakians (residents
of Czechoslovakia, IOW). *grin*
Lumina Dragon
Samurai wrote:
>
> Quoth Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>:
> >Samurai wrote:
> [munch]
> >> I'm guessing CHAR-pla, but that's based purely on the old
> >> Czechoslovakia. :)
> >
> >Polish, actually (yes, UDIC members, I'm half Polish :P).
>
> Most Eastern European languages share a common root, so I consider
> that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course, but
> the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
DWhat about the Czechs and the Slovaks?
> >And while we geenrally pronounce it "ZA-pla" (first a as in cat,
> >second a as in fall),
>
> Any particular reason for the change?
Ummm... Idunno.
> >the original pronunciation was close to your guess, at "CHA-pla"
> >(both a's as in fall).
>
> Considering how badly you 'Mercans mangle the pronunciation of your
> 'a's, I'd say I was pretty much spot on. >:D
Bah you, Samooouuurai.
-Lumina Dragon
Singing Dragon
> Quoth jo...@redowl.dyndns.org (Singing Dragon):
>>My, Samurai, what a big post you have!
>
> That's what the girls tell me. ;)
>
> [munch]
>>> Most Eastern European languages share a common root, so I consider
>>> that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course,
>>> but the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
>>
>>Of course, Czechoslovakians isn't and never was a language, now was
>>it?
>
> I never said it was. I merely took the pronunciation of "Cz" in the
> name directly from Czechoslovakia.
>
>>Czech and Slovak are two different things, unless I'm very very
>>wrong. <G>)
>
> Particularly now, hence my comments about Czechoslovakians (residents
> of Czechoslovakia, IOW). *grin*
Wow. I had a clueless moment when I wrote that... Oh well. :)
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>It never bothered John McEnroe. :) FWIW, I've never heard McIntyre
>pronounced any other way than the one I cited.
Heh... What's your real last name? Not McIntyre, evidently, and even so
you Brits would be more apt to get it right, since you have "tyres" and
other such...
Mik-intire (Lumina's not the first...)
Mik-IN-tree
Mik-inTREE
Mik-IN-try
Mik-IN-tar
Mik-entry
Then subtitute a correct "mak" for the "mik" and run through the list
again.
The most common one is probably Mikentry...
Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:03:16 GMT, Samurai <Sam...@his.reply-to.address>
> wrote:
> >It never bothered John McEnroe. :) FWIW, I've never heard McIntyre
> >pronounced any other way than the one I cited.
>
> Heh... What's your real last name? Not McIntyre, evidently, and even so
> you Brits would be more apt to get it right, since you have "tyres" and
> other such...
Ooh, another poll? Last names and how they are mispronounced?
Well, my last name's Whitten, and I end up having it misspelled more
often than mispronounced (Witten being the most common one). Whenever
someone asks for my name when they are taking it down for something I
always give my last name as "Whitten: W, H, I , T, T, E, N". Saves
trouble if I just spell it out before they ask. As for how it's
pronounced? "WIT-tin"
-Lumina Dragon
Paulon
and addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
>Michael McIntyre wrote:
I read about someone who was taking a phone order and forgot the person's
name. So they asked for the spelling...
S, M, I, T, H. Oops.
Samurai
>> that a quibble over details. Polish people might not, of course,
>> but the Czechoslovakians are no longer in a position to argue. ;D
>
See my response to Singing. :)
[munch]
>> Considering how badly you 'Mercans mangle the pronunciation of your
>> 'a's, I'd say I was pretty much spot on. >:D
>
>Bah you, Samooouuurai.
Another round to me, I think! *impish grin*
Samurai
>> Particularly now, hence my comments about Czechoslovakians
>> (residents of Czechoslovakia, IOW). *grin*
>
>Wow. I had a clueless moment when I wrote that... Oh well. :)
We've all been there. I /did/ wonder what you were on about,
though... :)
Samurai
[munch]
>Then subtitute a correct "mak" for the "mik" and run through the list
>again.
>
>The most common one is probably Mikentry...
Bizarre. McIntyre doesn't look as though it would be pronounced that
way even phoenetically, so I don't know why that's most common.
As for me, my surname is Gilham (pron. GILL-am). It has far more
potential for misspelling than mispronunciation. :)
Destrius
the entity named Michael McIntyre (silvan...@ultima-dragons.org)
-clip-
> Heh... What's your real last name? Not McIntyre, evidently, and even so
> you Brits would be more apt to get it right, since you have "tyres" and
> other such...
-clip-
Zhuang Xinyu.
Beat that. Muahahaha.
Samurai
[munch]
>Zhuang Xinyu. Beat that. Muahahaha.
Yeah, but is that just the Singapore equivalent of "Smith"? ;D
Lumina Dragon
Destrius wrote:
>
> ...and it was written on the heavens that on Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:14:36 -0400,
> the entity named Michael McIntyre (silvan...@ultima-dragons.org)
> inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
>
> -clip-
> > Heh... What's your real last name? Not McIntyre, evidently, and even so
> > you Brits would be more apt to get it right, since you have "tyres" and
> > other such...
> -clip-
>
> Zhuang Xinyu.
Pronounced "Bob".
Hmm. OK, OK, lemme give it a try...
ZHOO-ahng ZEEN-yoo
Do tell me how horribly I mangled that. I can generally intuit
pronunciations, but Eastern words always throw me off.
-Lumina Dragon
Destrius
the entity named Samurai (Sam...@his.reply-to.address)
-clip-
>>Zhuang Xinyu. Beat that. Muahahaha.
>
> Yeah, but is that just the Singapore equivalent of "Smith"? ;D
Nah, that would be "Tan Ah Kow". :P
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>Ooh, another poll? Last names and how they are mispronounced?
>
>Well, my last name's Whitten, and I end up having it misspelled more
>often than mispronounced (Witten being the most common one). Whenever
>someone asks for my name when they are taking it down for something I
>always give my last name as "Whitten: W, H, I , T, T, E, N". Saves
>trouble if I just spell it out before they ask. As for how it's
>pronounced? "WIT-tin"
On a related tangent... I live on County Drive... C-O-U-N-T-Y... It
simply boggles the mind how very, very many people end up putting down
Country Drive. Where the hell does that R come from???
I even got stuff from the state taxation authority sent to the wrong
address, even though it was written correctly on the tax return...
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>Quoth Michael McIntyre <silvan...@ultima-dragons.org>:
>[munch]
>>Then subtitute a correct "mak" for the "mik" and run through the list
>>again.
>>
>>The most common one is probably Mikentry...
>
>Bizarre. McIntyre doesn't look as though it would be pronounced that
>way even phoenetically, so I don't know why that's most common.
Well, Mik for Mc... Even Lumina did that one...
Intry is how they're reading it, I think... I also get MikenTRY, which is
probably Intrye...
Maybe Americans are all dislexic or something?
>As for me, my surname is Gilham (pron. GILL-am). It has far more
>potential for misspelling than mispronunciation. :)
Yeah, with that silent H... I might spell it Gillam myself upon hearing
it.
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>...and it was written on the heavens that on Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:14:36 -0400,
> the entity named Michael McIntyre (silvan...@ultima-dragons.org)
> inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
>
>-clip-
>> Heh... What's your real last name? Not McIntyre, evidently, and even so
>> you Brits would be more apt to get it right, since you have "tyres" and
>> other such...
>-clip-
>
>Zhuang Xinyu.
>
>Beat that. Muahahaha.
Erm.... Uh... Mr. Xinyu wins!
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>Hmm. OK, OK, lemme give it a try...
>
>ZHOO-ahng ZEEN-yoo
>
>Do tell me how horribly I mangled that. I can generally intuit
>pronunciations, but Eastern words always throw me off.
(Yeah, this from a guy who mispronounced McIntyre...)
Eastern words aren't real anyway... Well, what I mean is that the way we
spell them is just a transliteration, and an attempt to represent seriously
foreign sounds with letters that were never meant to convey those sounds.
Eastern languages are way funky... Probably because those of us in the
west, whether we speak Hindi or German or Italian, all speak relatively
closely-related languages, while something like, say, Cantonese is just way
out there a million miles away. Nothing in common at all.
Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:24:10 GMT, Samurai <Sam...@his.reply-to.address>
> wrote:
>
> >Bizarre. McIntyre doesn't look as though it would be pronounced that
> >way even phoenetically, so I don't know why that's most common.
>
> Well, Mik for Mc... Even Lumina did that one...
Well, I actually have heard Mc's pronounced "Mik", so I figured it was a
fair guess.
> >As for me, my surname is Gilham (pron. GILL-am). It has far more
> >potential for misspelling than mispronunciation. :)
>
> Yeah, with that silent H... I might spell it Gillam myself upon hearing
> it.
No, YOU would spell it Gillooouuuam.
-Lumina Dragon
Samurai
>Michael McIntyre wrote:
[munch]
>> Yeah, with that silent H... I might spell it Gillam myself upon
>> hearing it.
That's the more common spelling, in fact. I've seen variants with
about three extra 'i's in, though, which is rather odd...
>No, YOU would spell it Gillooouuuam.
*chuckle*
Samurai
>dest...@destrius.dyndns.org (Destrius) wrote:
[munch]
>>Zhuang Xinyu. Beat that. Muahahaha.
>
>Erm.... Uh... Mr. Xinyu wins!
Don't many Asian countries have their surnames before familiar
names...? Sure about that "Mr", mister? :)
*thinks about the Bucc's Den casino in U7*
Samurai
>Samurai (Sam...@his.reply-to.address) inscribed the following words:
>>>Zhuang Xinyu. Beat that. Muahahaha.
>>
>> Yeah, but is that just the Singapore equivalent of "Smith"? ;D
>
>Nah, that would be "Tan Ah Kow". :P
That is, I presume, something along the lines of "worker with
horseshoes"...? :)
Michael McIntyre
>>>Zhuang Xinyu. Beat that. Muahahaha.
>>
>>Erm.... Uh... Mr. Xinyu wins!
>
>Don't many Asian countries have their surnames before familiar
>names...? Sure about that "Mr", mister? :)
Do they?
I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
Destrius
the entity named Samurai (Sam...@his.reply-to.address)
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
-clip-
>>Nah, that would be "Tan Ah Kow". :P
>
> That is, I presume, something along the lines of "worker with
> horseshoes"...? :)
Actually its something like "Tan the Dog". Why farmers like to name their
children after pets is beyond me tho. :P
erimess
<kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Michael McIntyre wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:00:18 -0500, Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >And what's so hard about McIntyre? MIK-in-tire, with the vowel in 'mik'
>> >extremely clipped. (I am right, I hope.)
>>
>> Not really... Mc is just an abbreviated variant of Mac, Gaelic/Irish for
>> "son of," so it's Mak-in-tire. It's the Y that really throws people off...
>
>Ah. Would have been my second guess, as I have heard the name pronounced
>that way. It was just the Mc/Mac distinction that threw me off.
There are many times a difference between Mc and Mac. McLean is Mik.
McDonalds. Of course, that could be American laziness in the
pronounciation too. :-) Maybe someone Scottish would be the best
source of that info. I would have pronounced it Mak-In-Tire though.
It's the only way I've ever heard it. And the Y wouldn't have thrown
me off.
If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it. As soon as they
know it's a *name* they want to break all pronounciation rules. It's
like someone's name being Homebody, and suddenly it's now pronounced
Humbody, Hoombody, Homeboody, HumboDee... You get the idea.
>
>> It's not really that uncommon a name, and it's not like we don't have a
>> high concentration of Scots settlers in this region, but for some reason
>> McIntyre just eludes most people.
>
>It doesn't elude me. THen again, my younger brother is a fan of MASH
>reruns, and I've seen enough with him to know that one of the characters
>in that had the last name M(a)cIntyre, thus I had a basis for
>pronunciation.
>
>> (Incidentally, the original and most correct spelling of my name is Mac
>> an-t-Saoir, pronounced, evidently, the same way... Now THAT I could
>> understand causing confusion... :)
That sounds like Celtic. It reminds me of Samhain, Celtic for
Halloween. It's pronounced some really weird way.
Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
Early bird gets the worm, but
the second mouse gets the cheese.
Acid Queen
> If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
> tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
> English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it.
<grins evilly> Like "Cholmondely" (pronounced Chumley) or St.John
(pronounced Sinjin) you mean? English names can be real horrors, because
of the combination of so many language bases. Ask an American to
pronounce Leicester for you (Lesster), or even Wimbledon - which
American TV announcers for some inexplicable reason insist on calling
Wimbleton, or the river Thames (Tems).
I like the phonetic spelling of the American Indian tongue twisters,
personally. Withlacoochie (I know - I've prolly misspelled that,
Helgraf)
Hint: If you want to talk about your real name or RL stuff and don't
want to identify yourself, you can say things like "I have a friend..."
or "I have a relative whose name is..." or if you are a stickler for
total reality, something like "Why does everyone pronounce the name
Goldstien so many different ways? I have heard it as...... etc,"
> That sounds like Celtic. It reminds me of Samhain, Celtic for
> Halloween.
Not really - it was the name of the festival held Nov 1st, and was
obviously the precursor of Halloween, which came from All Hallow's Eve -
the night before Samain, but was a subsequent Christain name for All
Saint's Eve. The Christians, as was their won't took the festival of
Samain, Nov 1, and re-named is All Saint's Day - turning it into a
festival for Christian saints. So Halloween is a combination of
Christian name and pagan festival.
> It's pronounced some really weird way.
Sowinn, sow like a female pig.
<coughs> How do you pronounce "Celtic"? Keltick or Seltick?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm
This gives a lot of info on the subject, although the links it provides
give very inaccurate historic information about Celts and Druids
Usually, when Rome conquered, it left religions intact. The Druids were
such a bloodthirsty bunch that the Romans made an exception and decided
to eliminate them - chasing 'em to their headquarters on the island
known as Anglesey, were they burnt them.
The ancient Druids were nothing like the modern tree-huggers who use
that name.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=31765&tocid=0
Celtic wasn't a language, anymore than European is, BTW.
Go to Britannica again:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=108770&tocid=0
<Quote>
the body of writings composed in Gaelic and the languages
derived from it, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, and in Welsh and
its sister languages, Breton and Cornish. For writings in
English by Irish, Scottish, and Welsh authors, see English
literature. French-language works by Breton authors are
covered in French literature.
</Quote>
Glenys, who loves things Celtic and is horrified to see the inaccuracies
perpetrated by followers of a religion spawned by a retired civil
servant all of 25 or so years ago (Wicca)
Acid Queen
whr...@aol.comeuppance says...
> >
> >> > A place in Thailand called Phuket
> >> >
> >> > www.phuket.com
> >>
> >> Hee. I believe it.
> >>
> >> I went to junior high with a Vietnamese kid named Phuc. I think it was
> >> supposed to be pronounced "Puck" or summat. But it always made the
> >> substitute teachers fumble during roll call.
> >>
>
> Imagine my sister's friends in high school- two sisters from Thailand, whose
> names were Suchada and Ankanya Abvhivahntahniporn.
This last sounds like the sender of the multitude of "How to enlarge
your penis" spams my mailboxes are littered with these days :)
AQ
Lumina Dragon
Samurai wrote:
>
> Quoth Lumina Dragon <kewh...@hotmail.com>:
> >Michael McIntyre wrote:
> [munch]
>
> >> Yeah, with that silent H... I might spell it Gillam myself upon
> >> hearing it.
>
> That's the more common spelling, in fact. I've seen variants with
> about three extra 'i's in, though, which is rather odd...
Hmm.... three extra 'i's.....
> >No, YOU would spell it Gillooouuuam.
>
> *chuckle*
I got it! Gilliiiooouuuam.
Muah.
Wow. That word went from six to fifteen letters in length.
-Lumina Dragon
One o, one u, no Britness.
Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre wrote:
>
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 01:20:59 GMT, Samurai <Sam...@his.reply-to.address> >
> >
> >Don't many Asian countries have their surnames before familiar
> >names...? Sure about that "Mr", mister? :)
>
> Do they?
>
> I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
Don't worry, I'll bet that Asians are largely ignorant of things about
you, too.
-Lumina Dragon
Michael McIntyre
>There are many times a difference between Mc and Mac. McLean is Mik.
>McDonalds. Of course, that could be American laziness in the
>pronounciation too. :-)
It has more to do with whether it's followed by a consonant or a vowel than
whether it's spelled Mc or Mac. Our clan name is MacIntyre, but they
recognize over 50 spellings. Many folks draw a line or two under a
superscript C in writing my name. I'm not sure what the rule is for that,
but I assume that it is or was some accepted means of abbreviating Mac, and
that as is typically the case in English, the extra work has gradually
faded away. We don't have "coördination" or "to-day" anymore, and neither
do most people write the superscript C with lines under it.
But anyway, think about it... McLean (muklane) McDonald (mikdonald)
McAndrews (makandrewz) McIntosh (makintosh) McClendon (muklendun)... It's
always "mak" before a vowel. Before a consonant, we seem to make the vowel
sound less distinct, rather than really changing it. Of course this is
just my observation.
>It's the only way I've ever heard it. And the Y wouldn't have thrown
>me off.
Well, you're not one of the Stupid People(tm) then... :)
>If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
>tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
>English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it. As soon as they
>know it's a *name* they want to break all pronounciation rules. It's
>like someone's name being Homebody, and suddenly it's now pronounced
>Humbody, Hoombody, Homeboody, HumboDee... You get the idea.
Oh yeah, I definitely get the idea. Funny that, not using your real name
online. I've just never understood what's the point. I don't hide behind
aliases. Even here I'm Silvan Pagan D. Michael McIntyre and so forth.
>>reruns, and I've seen enough with him to know that one of the characters
>>in that had the last name M(a)cIntyre, thus I had a basis for
>>pronunciation.
Yeah, that's the thing too... Lots of people watched MASH and have heard
the name. They just don't recognize it in writing. Having a famous
hee-haw star like Reba McEntire doesn't help much either.
>That sounds like Celtic. It reminds me of Samhain, Celtic for
>Halloween. It's pronounced some really weird way.
sowan
It's not Celtic. It's Irish/Gaelic, just like Mac an-t-Saoir, so it was
clever of you to recognize it as such. :)
Those languages use the same alphabet as English, but the rules of
prounciation are quite weird. I've never studied either of them very
seriously, but I've seen enough to recognize that prounciation is far from
obvious to the beginner. I think that if anything, Gaelic is even weirder
than Irish. More old spellings with more really funky consonant and vowel
combinations, whereas Irish sees more use and has been modernized and
simplified a bit.
Samurai
I've been wondering about that, and this confirms it. You lot
acutually vocalise that "i" sound, don't you? I recognise most of the
"Mc" variations you list, but "mik-" is totally alien.
It's "muckdonalds" in the UK, which seems quite appropriate, really.
;D
erimess
<AcidQ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <3b591bfe...@news.newsguy.com>, erimess says...
>
>
>> If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
>> tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
>> English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it.
>
> <grins evilly> Like "Cholmondely" (pronounced Chumley) or St.John
>(pronounced Sinjin) you mean? English names can be real horrors, because
>of the combination of so many language bases. Ask an American to
>pronounce Leicester for you (Lesster), or even Wimbledon - which
>American TV announcers for some inexplicable reason insist on calling
>Wimbleton, or the river Thames (Tems).
Worchestershire. No, I didn't mean one of those weird things. I
meant like the example I gave: two perfectly simple English words put
together to make a compound.
>
>I like the phonetic spelling of the American Indian tongue twisters,
>personally. Withlacoochie (I know - I've prolly misspelled that,
>Helgraf)
>
>Hint: If you want to talk about your real name or RL stuff and don't
>want to identify yourself, you can say things like "I have a friend..."
>or "I have a relative whose name is..." or if you are a stickler for
>total reality, something like "Why does everyone pronounce the name
>Goldstien so many different ways? I have heard it as...... etc,"
That would work much better if my last name weren't so uncommon.
(Even though it's two simple English words.) But you can call me Ami
Ryan if you want. (Don't ask. That's like my fake real name, when
someone insists on calling me a name.) There's a guy over on csipga
that calls me Ami all the time.
>
>
>> That sounds like Celtic. It reminds me of Samhain, Celtic for
>> Halloween.
>
>Not really - it was the name of the festival held Nov 1st, and was
>obviously the precursor of Halloween, which came from All Hallow's Eve -
>the night before Samain, but was a subsequent Christain name for All
>Saint's Eve. The Christians, as was their won't took the festival of
>Samain, Nov 1, and re-named is All Saint's Day - turning it into a
>festival for Christian saints. So Halloween is a combination of
>Christian name and pagan festival.
Actually, I knew that, but I was oversimplifying cause I didn't figure
anyone would get it. I didn't know I was going to have an expert come
back at me. :-) I look at it as the "history" of Halloween I guess.
It's interesting the number of holidays the Christians stole.
My boss at my one job just loves putting up tons of stuff all over for
every holiday in existance. Another lady who used to work there would
typically walk in before Halloween and say something like, "I see you
have all that evil sacreligious stuff up again," kind of real snotty
like. And I always wanted to say, "You do celebrate Christmas, right?
You do know that's on a Pagan holiday?" I hated that woman.
>
>> It's pronounced some really weird way.
>
>Sowinn, sow like a female pig.
>
><coughs> How do you pronounce "Celtic"? Keltick or Seltick?
Keltick
>
>http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm
>
> This gives a lot of info on the subject, although the links it provides
>give very inaccurate historic information about Celts and Druids
>
> Usually, when Rome conquered, it left religions intact. The Druids were
>such a bloodthirsty bunch that the Romans made an exception and decided
>to eliminate them - chasing 'em to their headquarters on the island
>known as Anglesey, were they burnt them.
>
>The ancient Druids were nothing like the modern tree-huggers who use
>that name.
>
>http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=31765&tocid=0
>
>Celtic wasn't a language, anymore than European is, BTW.
Oh, really? So what exactly is it then? Or rather I should say, what
is the language that people tend to refer to as Celtic?
>
>Go to Britannica again:
>
>http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=108770&tocid=0
I just got an error message here.
>
><Quote>
>
>the body of writings composed in Gaelic and the languages
>derived from it, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, and in Welsh and
>its sister languages, Breton and Cornish. For writings in
>English by Irish, Scottish, and Welsh authors, see English
>literature. French-language works by Breton authors are
>covered in French literature.
That still doesn't really answer the question. I think I would see
Celtic as Gaelic.
>
></Quote>
>
>Glenys, who loves things Celtic and is horrified to see the inaccuracies
>perpetrated by followers of a religion spawned by a retired civil
>servant all of 25 or so years ago (Wicca)
Oh, well, then all will be thrilled to know that I know (and was
friends with) about a billion Wiccans. Well, maybe not quite a
billion. Perhaps a small circle. (Pardoning the pun.) Actually,
this was a theatre I was involved with for some time and it seemed
half the people there were Wiccan. Probably not so, just seemed that
way. People in theatre are usually much more accepting of diversities
than your average lot. I'm not at the theatre anymore and I am not
friends with any of the people there anymore, but that's just another
long story.
I wouldn't have the faintest clue about any inaccuracies. I only had
what they told me to go on (and what little bits I'd read online). I
went to a couple of their Circles. I didn't believe in everything
they were doing, but I didn't really mind it all either. In fact, I
thought some of it quite interesting. One of my better friends was a
priest. (Called himself a recovering Catholic.) One of their group
was also some little-known tribe of Indian that I can't recall and he
would bring some of those traditions into the Circles. There was
quite a bit of crossover. (Well, except for maybe the Norse gods.)
I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
anyone really know anyway?
erimess
<silvan...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 06:06:58 GMT, erimess wrote:
>>There are many times a difference between Mc and Mac. McLean is Mik.
>>McDonalds. Of course, that could be American laziness in the
>>pronounciation too. :-)
>
>It has more to do with whether it's followed by a consonant or a vowel than
>whether it's spelled Mc or Mac. Our clan name is MacIntyre, but they
>recognize over 50 spellings. Many folks draw a line or two under a
>superscript C in writing my name. I'm not sure what the rule is for that,
>but I assume that it is or was some accepted means of abbreviating Mac, and
>that as is typically the case in English, the extra work has gradually
>faded away. We don't have "coördination" or "to-day" anymore, and neither
>do most people write the superscript C with lines under it.
>
>But anyway, think about it... McLean (muklane) McDonald (mikdonald)
>McAndrews (makandrewz) McIntosh (makintosh) McClendon (muklendun)... It's
>always "mak" before a vowel. Before a consonant, we seem to make the vowel
>sound less distinct, rather than really changing it. Of course this is
>just my observation.
Ah, makes sense. There are pronounciation rules in other languages
which depend upon the following letter like that.
>
>>It's the only way I've ever heard it. And the Y wouldn't have thrown
>>me off.
>
>Well, you're not one of the Stupid People(tm) then... :)
Glad to hear it.
>
>>If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
>>tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
>>English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it. As soon as they
>>know it's a *name* they want to break all pronounciation rules. It's
>>like someone's name being Homebody, and suddenly it's now pronounced
>>Humbody, Hoombody, Homeboody, HumboDee... You get the idea.
>
>Oh yeah, I definitely get the idea. Funny that, not using your real name
>online. I've just never understood what's the point. I don't hide behind
>aliases. Even here I'm Silvan Pagan D. Michael McIntyre and so forth.
I guess I don't view it as "hiding behind an alias." There's just a
lot of kooks out there. I know a lot of people don't understand this
and a lot of people are much worse than I am, but I just think it's
more secure if I don't use a real name. I'm not listed in the phone
book either. Maybe it also has a little to do with the fact that I'm
extremely private. I don't think giving my name to some particular
person is a privacy issue, but I also don't like information about me
to be someplace that is so totally public. My brother is worse. He
insists that I reveal too much as it is.
>
>>That sounds like Celtic. It reminds me of Samhain, Celtic for
>>Halloween. It's pronounced some really weird way.
>
>sowan
>
>It's not Celtic. It's Irish/Gaelic, just like Mac an-t-Saoir, so it was
>clever of you to recognize it as such. :)
Well, according to Acid Queen, Celtic isn't a language anyway. I'm
not so clever -- I've just been exposed to enough of those words,
though I have no idea how to pronounce them.
>
>Those languages use the same alphabet as English, but the rules of
>prounciation are quite weird. I've never studied either of them very
>seriously, but I've seen enough to recognize that prounciation is far from
>obvious to the beginner. I think that if anything, Gaelic is even weirder
>than Irish. More old spellings with more really funky consonant and vowel
>combinations, whereas Irish sees more use and has been modernized and
>simplified a bit.
>---
>Michael McIntyre | USDA zone 6a in sw VA
>Silvan Pagan Dragon -=UDIC=- | silvan...@ultima-dragons.org
>d+ e- N+ T+ Om+++ U123456!7!S!8!9! u++ uC++ uF- uG uLB- uA++
>nC+ nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++++ nT+ wM---- wC--- wS---- o--- oE----
>y+ a29
>
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Erimess Dragon
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>Quoth Michael McIntyre <silvan...@ultima-dragons.org>:
>[munch]
>>But anyway, think about it... McLean (muklane) McDonald (mikdonald)
>
>I've been wondering about that, and this confirms it. You lot
>acutually vocalise that "i" sound, don't you? I recognise most of the
>"Mc" variations you list, but "mik-" is totally alien.
Sort of... Not quite. It's one of those indistinct vowels, not even quite
a schwa or the I variant of a schwa (been awhile). We do say "mikdonalds"
though... sort of... Hmmm.... Well, no, the way I say it is closer to
"muckdonalds" but it's still a tad closer to I than U.
Face it, English vowels are a bitch. You guys (we don't say "you lot" on
this side of the pond dammit) have different vowels from us, and even
within the UK or America or Canada there are a lot of variations... Vowels
make a language, and the vowels in English, particularly considering the
various dialects, are part of very, very muddy territory.
Wayfarer
<CHOMP!>
> People in theatre are usually much more accepting of diversities
> than your average lot. I'm not at the theatre anymore and I am not
> friends with any of the people there anymore, but that's just another
> long story.
Heh, people in theatre are marginalized on a more regular basis than your
average Joe. Things look different from the outside. Some things get a
lot more evil. Others, a lot less. Trenchcoats become generally more
fashionable. As does gaff tape. Et cetera. ^_^
<CHOMP!>
> I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
> discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
> about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
> say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
> anyone really know anyway?
*shrug* It falls within the charter (anything of interest), so a religious
discussion is certainly not off-topic. In fact, we've had many
enlightening discussions on the topic of belief systems, often under the
most unusual subject headers. Granted, they'll wander off into nitpick
territory once in awhile, and there's a good chance of just about any
participant being flamed in those cases. But still...
The way I'll _know_ is when a potential deity (or a pantheon thereof)
applies for the position--and is accepted. ^_^
--
|
\ / Supernova Dragon -=={UDIC}==-
- * - d++e+N+T--Om++ U1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!9!A!L! u+++uC++uF+++
/ \ uLB+uA++nC++nR-nHnPnI--nPTnS+++nTwM+wC++wS-wI++wN+ y a22
| http://www.aeolis.org/~wayfarer/
Samurai
>Acid Queen <AcidQ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[munch]
>Worchestershire. No, I didn't mean one of those weird things. I
>meant like the example I gave: two perfectly simple English words put
>together to make a compound.
Woostersheer, more or less. PG Wodehouse (Woodhouse!) fans should
know how to pronounce it, certainly. *grin*
Mind you, there are some UK place names that even Brits can't
pronounce properly -- Wisbech, for one.
[munch]
>><coughs> How do you pronounce "Celtic"? Keltick or Seltick?
>
>Keltick
Quite so. The other is a football (pronounced "soccer", apparently
*grin*) team in Scotland.
[munch]
>>Celtic wasn't a language, anymore than European is, BTW.
>
>Oh, really?
Really. :)
>So what exactly is it then? Or rather I should say, what
>is the language that people tend to refer to as Celtic?
Predominantly Gaelic and Gallic, though there are others. Celtic is
merely an adjective meaning "pertaining to the Celts".
[munch]
>That still doesn't really answer the question. I think I would see
>Celtic as Gaelic.
That would be a misnomer, though. Celts spoke several different
languages and dialects, so there /isn't/ a single Celtic language.
[munch]
>I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
>discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
>about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
>say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
>anyone really know anyway?
You can compare modern practices with historical fact. As for the
religious discussion here, we're more tolerant of it here than in most
places, even when the Arch-Atheist is around. ;)
Halfelven Dragon
>>There are many times a difference between Mc and Mac. McLean is Mik.
>>McDonalds. Of course, that could be American laziness in the
>>pronounciation too. :-)
>
>It has more to do with whether it's followed by a consonant or a vowel than
>whether it's spelled Mc or Mac. Our clan name is MacIntyre, but they
>recognize over 50 spellings. Many folks draw a line or two under a
>superscript C in writing my name. I'm not sure what the rule is for that,
>but I assume that it is or was some accepted means of abbreviating Mac, and
>that as is typically the case in English, the extra work has gradually
>faded away. We don't have "coördination" or "to-day" anymore, and neither
>do most people write the superscript C with lines under it.
i love the the irish/scottish clan names. especially because everyone
confuses my last name with them <g> Macinskas (go check the roster if
you don't believe me). lithuanian. no capital 'i', thank you.
however, every single time a member of my family has been to scotland,
we always end up as "[prefix]. MacInnis" and asked have we looked up
our clan and can we come to clan meetings, etc <g>
telemarketers have fun with it too. you would not believe some of the
sounds we get on the phone.
i think its main problem is that it was transliterated out of whatever
alphabet lithuanian is written in (some variant of cyrillic, i
think...i've only ever seen it written once, and it looked weird :)
>
>>If I didn't have my rule about not using my real name online, I could
>>tell some stories about my last name. Nice simple English name and
>>English-speaking people can't seem to pronounce it. As soon as they
>>know it's a *name* they want to break all pronounciation rules. It's
>>like someone's name being Homebody, and suddenly it's now pronounced
>>Humbody, Hoombody, Homeboody, HumboDee... You get the idea.
>
>Oh yeah, I definitely get the idea. Funny that, not using your real name
>online. I've just never understood what's the point. I don't hide behind
>aliases. Even here I'm Silvan Pagan D. Michael McIntyre and so forth.
heh. one of my friends in high school had the last name 'Keer.'
"Beer with a 'K,' people! How hard is that to pronounce?!"
>
>---
>Michael McIntyre | USDA zone 6a in sw VA
>Silvan Pagan Dragon -=UDIC=- | silvan...@ultima-dragons.org
>d+ e- N+ T+ Om+++ U123456!7!S!8!9! u++ uC++ uF- uG uLB- uA++
>nC+ nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS++++ nT+ wM---- wC--- wS---- o--- oE----
>y+ a29
>
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
--
The Halfelven
-=(UDIC)=-
Proud member of SneakerNet.
Michael McIntyre
Sinjin I got, but the first I'd've said "kolmondly"
>>(pronounced Sinjin) you mean? English names can be real horrors, because
>>of the combination of so many language bases. Ask an American to
>>pronounce Leicester for you (Lesster), or even Wimbledon - which
lie-chester
wimbeldon
>>American TV announcers for some inexplicable reason insist on calling
>>Wimbleton, or the river Thames (Tems).
tems.
OK, so I got three out of five...
>
>Worchestershire.
wurstersheer
>It's interesting the number of holidays the Christians stole.
Yup, agreed. Interesting as well that the only Christian holidays I ever
really cared about turned out to be those which had been subsumed...
>>The ancient Druids were nothing like the modern tree-huggers who use
>>that name.
True. They were pretty viscious. That's why I don't use their name, even
though I'm a modern tree-hugger. :)
>than your average lot. I'm not at the theatre anymore and I am not
>friends with any of the people there anymore, but that's just another
>long story.
Real Wiccans are fun people. I don't much care for the "let's play with
magic and cast love and propserity spells" type though, and I've only ever
actually met the latter in RL.
>I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
>discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
>about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
>say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
>anyone really know anyway?
No farkin' clue, that's how... It goes round and round forever, but in the
end, nobody knows.
That's why I'm a non-denominational general-purpose type Pagan... Not a
Wiccan, not a Druid, not an anything, just some weirdo who loves trees,
talks to Mother Nature, and has never taken much solace from the empty
promises of the mainstream religions...
Michael McIntyre
>Ah, makes sense. There are pronounciation rules in other languages
>which depend upon the following letter like that.
Right, though of course Sammie, or better a REAL British person (ie someone
from Scotland) could come in and shoot my explanation down.
>I guess I don't view it as "hiding behind an alias." There's just a
>lot of kooks out there. I know a lot of people don't understand this
Hey, *I* am one of the scariest kooks out there... Nothing to fear. :)
Really, I just don't get it though. Anyone kooky enough to do me harm
could figure out who I am by looking at my headers and doing a bit of
homework anyway. Trace me to my ISP, find out who has the account, find
out my address... Once you have an SSN and a few other pieces of
information you can find out anything about anyone, and getting my SSN is
as simple as taking a look through DMV records, since I never bothered to
go get a new license number after they made it possible to do so a few
years back.
I have nothing to hide. Let them pry. What are they going to find?
(Besides, even with my address most people would never figure out where I
live by looking at any maps that I've seen. The official map is totally
wrong, and shows roads that don't even exist. Unless the person out to get
me is local, which is just not bloody likely.)
I'm just not worried about it, and prefer to be myself, rather than being
paranoid and trying to hide who I am. My online social life is the only
social life I have. I'd rather people know who I am, rather than wonder
who's behind the mask.
Just a personal choice, and when the axe-wielding maniac comes to the house
or when the bored hacker mucks up my credit history or whatever then maybe
I'll wish it had been other.
In any case, it's really too late to change. I go way back, and my name is
plastered all over the internet.
>to be someplace that is so totally public. My brother is worse. He
>insists that I reveal too much as it is.
Yeah, I know you're female, a CPA and you have a brother who knows more
about computer stuff than you do, with whom you are in frequent contact
and/or proximity. You also know more about freaky alternative religion
type stuff than your average bear.
Witty Dragon
news:ef1mltsohv9hbehgf...@4ax.com...
<WebTV>Hey, me too</WebTV>. There are (were) 5 or 6 Wiccans where I live,
but I've been slowly converting them either to think like me or into
atheists. It's fun :D Out of the six, I now have one Wiccan left, one who
I have brought round to my way of thinking, one who is so completely mad
that I have absolutely no clue, and three atheists.
It's not as fun as converting Christians to atheists though.
Mwahahahahahaha
--
Witty Dragon -=UDIC=- 3rd in Ultima Dragons Seti Group
d++ e+ N++ T--- Om++ U1!47!'!S!'!8!9!A u++ uC++ uF--- uG++ uLB++ uA++ nC+
nH+ nP+ nI++ nPT nS+++ nT+ y a16
Samurai
>Sammie, or better a REAL British person
;P~~
>(ie someone from Scotland)
Scotland rules, och aye! :)
Acid Queen
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:52:37 -0500, Acid Queen
> <AcidQ...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <3b591bfe...@news.newsguy.com>, erimess says...
> That would work much better if my last name weren't so uncommon.
Nobody would know it was yours if you didn't tell 'em, though <g>
> (Even though it's two simple English words.) But you can call me Ami
> Ryan if you want. (Don't ask. That's like my fake real name, when
> someone insists on calling me a name.) There's a guy over on csipga
> that calls me Ami all the time.
> Actually, I knew that, but I was oversimplifying cause I didn't figure
> anyone would get it. I didn't know I was going to have an expert come
> back at me. :-) I look at it as the "history" of Halloween I guess.
> It's interesting the number of holidays the Christians stole.
I just get a bit over-exercised about the whole Celtic/Druid thing.
> My boss at my one job just loves putting up tons of stuff all over for
> every holiday in existance. Another lady who used to work there would
> typically walk in before Halloween and say something like, "I see you
> have all that evil sacreligious stuff up again," kind of real snotty
> like. And I always wanted to say, "You do celebrate Christmas, right?
> You do know that's on a Pagan holiday?" I hated that woman.
Ack - you should've claimed to be a satanist and given her something to
really get shirty about.
> ><coughs> How do you pronounce "Celtic"? Keltick or Seltick?
>
> Keltick
In the Celtic areas of the UK more often than not Seltick is used -
either is acceptable in general use, IIRC.
> >Celtic wasn't a language, anymore than European is, BTW.
>
> Oh, really? So what exactly is it then? Or rather I should say, what
> is the language that people tend to refer to as Celtic?
There are a few - Gaelic, both Scots and Irish, Welsh and it's sister
language in Brittany, Cornish and Manx. Celtic is more a class of
languages, for want of a better expression.
The Celts kinda came from all over northern Europe, and you will find
names and words that are common to several, or all "celtic" languages -
like glen, which means valley in both Welsh and Gaelic. Like the Latin
based languages have common words, and the Germanic ones as well. It is
quite irritating to read in a book that there isn't a separate language,
and then they say "and abc is Celtic for xyz..." when they really mean
that abc is common to many of the Celtic languages.
>
> >
> >Go to Britannica again:
> >
> >http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=108770&tocid=0
>
> I just got an error message here.
Go to www.britannica.com and do a search for celt, celtic, driud etc.
All kinds of interesting stuff, including modern Wicca etc.
>
> >
> ><Quote>
> >
> >the body of writings composed in Gaelic and the languages
> >derived from it, Scottish Gaelic and Manx, and in Welsh and
> >its sister languages, Breton and Cornish. For writings in
> >English by Irish, Scottish, and Welsh authors, see English
> >literature. French-language works by Breton authors are
> >covered in French literature.
>
> That still doesn't really answer the question. I think I would see
> Celtic as Gaelic.
Not if you'd ever heard Cornish or Welsh, you wouldn't... it would be
more accurate to say that Gaelic was a Celtic language, rather then the
other way round. Celtic isn't a language per se, but rather certain
languages could be called Celtic. (Just as certain languages are
Germanic, or Romantic etc)
>
> >
> ></Quote>
> >
> >Glenys, who loves things Celtic and is horrified to see the inaccuracies
> >perpetrated by followers of a religion spawned by a retired civil
> >servant all of 25 or so years ago (Wicca)
>
> Oh, well, then all will be thrilled to know that I know (and was
> friends with) about a billion Wiccans. Well, maybe not quite a
> billion. Perhaps a small circle. (Pardoning the pun.) Actually,
> this was a theatre I was involved with for some time and it seemed
> half the people there were Wiccan. Probably not so, just seemed that
> way. People in theatre are usually much more accepting of diversities
> than your average lot. I'm not at the theatre anymore and I am not
> friends with any of the people there anymore, but that's just another
> long story.
Oh, I don't mind Wiccans - like 'em, in fact - they make and sell nice
smellies, and have cool rocks 'n stuff. I'm at that age where women
become tree-huggers and herb growers and sages anyway. I just get all
bent out of shape when they start re-writing history. The idea that
Druids were tree worshippers probably came from the fact most of Europe
(aside from the towns) was kinda tree covered, and they used to meet in
secret in the forest.
Think of them as prototype Klansmen - in some areas they wielded a lot
of power and used fear and 'magyc' and torching people as a means of
keeping it. They were Not Nice - certainly a far cry from the wandering
bards and healers people want to think of them as.
> I wouldn't have the faintest clue about any inaccuracies. I only had
> what they told me to go on (and what little bits I'd read online). I
> went to a couple of their Circles. I didn't believe in everything
> they were doing, but I didn't really mind it all either. In fact, I
> thought some of it quite interesting. One of my better friends was a
> priest. (Called himself a recovering Catholic.) One of their group
> was also some little-known tribe of Indian that I can't recall and he
> would bring some of those traditions into the Circles. There was
> quite a bit of crossover.
*nods* There is with many religious/philosophic ideas. Judaism and
Taoism have a lot in common on basic precepts.
> (Well, except for maybe the Norse gods.)
I'm not too into the Indian stuff, but IIRC, a lot of their ideas are
very similar to Nordic ideas; the spirits all tend to behave the same
etc.
> I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
> discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
> about such discussions and I'm still in new territory),
We've had some nasty flamewars, but by and large the dragons are very
tolerant of people's views - unless they start preaching how others
should be.
> so I'll just
> say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
> anyone really know anyway?
Religion and history are two very separate areas - although history
obviously encompasses religion, religion has a habit of taking history
and altering it to suit. If I came across as criticising religious
views, I'm truly sorry. I had intended to point out the historic
inaccuracies. I support everyone's right to believe whatever they wish -
I just get annoyed when they get into wrong historic stuff (Like
teaching creationism as fact)
And you could well argue that evolution is taught as fact when it isn't
conclusively proven, but it has a lot more going for it than Adam and
Eve....
AQ
Acid Queen
> Well, according to Acid Queen, Celtic isn't a language anyway. I'm
> not so clever -- I've just been exposed to enough of those words,
> though I have no idea how to pronounce them.
Although I'd love to bask in the glow of "cleverer", but it has far more
to do with the fact I spent the first 28 years of my life in England. My
very Welsh name was given for a reason that made me learn about Wales
and all things Welsh, and thence to other Celtic areas.
And a glimpse of Stonehenge on a moonlight night sends any red blooded
Celt to the history books...
AQ
Acid Queen
pa...@ultima-dragons.org says...
> It's not Celtic. It's Irish/Gaelic, just like Mac an-t-Saoir, so it was
> clever of you to recognize it as such. :)
Gaelic is a Celtic language.
> Those languages use the same alphabet as English, but the rules of
> prounciation are quite weird. I've never studied either of them very
> seriously, but I've seen enough to recognize that prounciation is far from
> obvious to the beginner. I think that if anything, Gaelic is even weirder
> than Irish.
Ahem - Irish is Gaelic, as is Scottish - somewhat different forms of
Gaelic, but with enough in common that they can converse some. The Irish
came from Scotland (and elsewhere) - the Vikings kept shoving people
west, and various mishaps in Scotland kept that movement going over the
centuries.
AQ
Acid Queen
pa...@ultima-dragons.org says...
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:49:03 GMT, erimess wrote:
> >Ah, makes sense. There are pronounciation rules in other languages
> >which depend upon the following letter like that.
>
> Right, though of course Sammie, or better a REAL British person (ie someone
> from Scotland) could come in and shoot my explanation down.
<eg> Britannica says Mac is a Vietnamese clan:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=50790&tocid=0
I'm afraid a Scot would not be thrilled at being called British. They
have a tendency to refer to anyone born south of Hadrian's wall as
"Bloody Sassanacks" and somehow they manage to spit at the same time
they say it. Last time I looked, my passport says I am British, and I
come from the same neck of the woods as Samuari - same county, I think.
AQ
Acid Queen
AcidQ...@hotmail.com says...
Well, I managed to get that one ass-backwards. According to Britannica:
Scottish Gaelic language
<http://www.britannica.com/bcom/images/thistle.gif> Encyclopędia
Britannica Article
<http://www.britannica.com/bcom/images/dot.gif>
also called Scots Gaelic, or Erse, a member of the Goidelic group of
Celtic languages, spoken along the northwest coast of Scotland and in
the Hebrides islands. Scottish Gaelic is a recent offshoot of the Irish
language. Introduced into Scotland about AD 500 (displacing an earlier
Celtic language), it had developed into a distinct dialect of Gaelic by
the 13th century. A common Gaelic literary language was used in Ireland
and Scotland until the 17th century. By that time Scottish Gaelic had
developed enough to be considered a separate language from Irish.
Manuscripts in a definitively Scottish form of Gaelic began to appear in
the 16th century, but the first Gaelic book printed, John Carswell's
Foirm na n-Urrnuidheadh, published in Edinburgh in 1567, still adhered
to the Classical Modern Irish norm.
And here is the reference for Celtic languages:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=118120&tocid=74842
AQ
Destrius
the entity named Lumina Dragon (kewh...@hotmail.com)
-clip-
> Pronounced "Bob".
-clip-
Indeed.
-clip-
> Hmm. OK, OK, lemme give it a try...
>
> ZHOO-ahng ZEEN-yoo
>
> Do tell me how horribly I mangled that. I can generally intuit
> pronunciations, but Eastern words always throw me off.
-clip-
My surname is roughly correct, but the second word it quite off.
It should be more of Sin-Yee, with the "ee" a strange kind of half "u"
sound that Westerners can never manage to pronounce.
Destrius
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
-clip-
>> I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
>
> Don't worry, I'll bet that Asians are largely ignorant of things about
> you, too.
-clip-
Well, we all know from Hollywood that Americans speak with funny accents,
like to blow up everything they can see, have either big breasts or hairy
chests, and have sex all the time.
Destrius
the entity named Michael McIntyre (silvan...@ultima-dragons.org)
-clip-
>>Don't many Asian countries have their surnames before familiar
>>names...? Sure about that "Mr", mister? :)
>
> Do they?
>
> I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
-clip-
Chinese do, at least, so Mr Zhuang would be more appropriate. But Destrius
will do fine in all cases. :P
erimess
wrote:
>
><CHOMP!>
You know, I just now got this "chomp" thing. Hehe.
>> I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
>> discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
>> about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
>> say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
>> anyone really know anyway?
>
>*shrug* It falls within the charter (anything of interest), so a religious
>discussion is certainly not off-topic. In fact, we've had many
>enlightening discussions on the topic of belief systems, often under the
>most unusual subject headers. Granted, they'll wander off into nitpick
>territory once in awhile, and there's a good chance of just about any
>participant being flamed in those cases. But still...
Well, good, I'm glad I didn't start off onto a bad subject area.
Sometimes people can start getting a bit nasty about such a subject.
I think the only time I ever got sort of nasty is when someone
wouldn't listen to why their beliefs didn't work for me.
>
>The way I'll _know_ is when a potential deity (or a pantheon thereof)
>applies for the position--and is accepted. ^_^
^_^ Boy, I had to think real hard to do that kind of smiley, but it's
cute.
erimess
<Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote:
>
>[munch]
>>>Celtic wasn't a language, anymore than European is, BTW.
>>
>>Oh, really?
>
>Really. :)
>
>>So what exactly is it then? Or rather I should say, what
>>is the language that people tend to refer to as Celtic?
>
>Predominantly Gaelic and Gallic, though there are others. Celtic is
>merely an adjective meaning "pertaining to the Celts".
>
>[munch]
>>That still doesn't really answer the question. I think I would see
>>Celtic as Gaelic.
>
>That would be a misnomer, though. Celts spoke several different
>languages and dialects, so there /isn't/ a single Celtic language.
Yes, I had a friend on the phone who considers herself "Celt" (as a
group of nationalities you might say) and I was trying to read this
while I was talking to her. (I have no idea what I was reading.) She
was saying the same thing. We ended up in this big long discussion
about it. So, two hours later I'm finally back here...
>
>[munch]
>>I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
>>discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
>>about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
>>say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
>>anyone really know anyway?
>
>You can compare modern practices with historical fact. As for the
>religious discussion here, we're more tolerant of it here than in most
>places, even when the Arch-Atheist is around. ;)
Do I want to know?
Michael McIntyre
>confuses my last name with them <g> Macinskas (go check the roster if
>you don't believe me). lithuanian. no capital 'i', thank you.
Neat... :)
>telemarketers have fun with it too. you would not believe some of the
>sounds we get on the phone.
Yeah I would...
>i think its main problem is that it was transliterated out of whatever
>alphabet lithuanian is written in (some variant of cyrillic, i
>think...i've only ever seen it written once, and it looked weird :)
Some variant of cyrillic I think too... That really is a weird alphabet in
the first place. Greek + ??????
So... I have to ask... How do you pronounce Macinskas? mukINskas
MAKinskas?
I'm going to put my money on mahKEENskas...
erimess
<silvan...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>
>>I guess I don't view it as "hiding behind an alias." There's just a
>>lot of kooks out there. I know a lot of people don't understand this
>
>Hey, *I* am one of the scariest kooks out there... Nothing to fear. :)
Oddly enough, I trust you.
>
>Really, I just don't get it though. Anyone kooky enough to do me harm
>could figure out who I am by looking at my headers and doing a bit of
>homework anyway. Trace me to my ISP, find out who has the account, find
>out my address... Once you have an SSN and a few other pieces of
>information you can find out anything about anyone, and getting my SSN is
>as simple as taking a look through DMV records, since I never bothered to
>go get a new license number after they made it possible to do so a few
>years back.
I guess the way I see this is that you're right that if someone wants
to bad enough, they'll find stuff on me. Hackers have been able to do
that for years. My bank account never was totally safe. I just don't
see a reason to be blantant about it and make it easy.
>
>I have nothing to hide. Let them pry. What are they going to find?
>(Besides, even with my address most people would never figure out where I
>live by looking at any maps that I've seen. The official map is totally
>wrong, and shows roads that don't even exist. Unless the person out to get
>me is local, which is just not bloody likely.)
I don't have anything to hide either. That's not what it's about. I
just have a very strong philosophy that nothing about me is anyone's
damn business unless I choose to make it so. (I *did* say I was
extremely private. Hey, my dad's worse, but he comes from English
stock.)(Well, so do I.)
>
>I'm just not worried about it, and prefer to be myself, rather than being
>paranoid and trying to hide who I am. My online social life is the only
>social life I have. I'd rather people know who I am, rather than wonder
>who's behind the mask.
But you are getting to know who I am. What's my name got to do with
it? Never liked it anyway. And I'm not trying to hide who I am. I'm
only keeping my name off-line. I think there's a difference.
I've been using Erimess long enough that to me, that is a real name.
So, it's not the one my parents gave me. (My mother wanted to name me
Ami -- Dad didn't like it -- but I've always thought of myself that
way. I do use that name and there are people who actually call me
that.)(I was going to use the name Ami Ryan back when I intended on
being a famous singer. :-))
There's a small group of online friends I have who converse through a
list group. There's only four of us. (Used to be five and a sixth
one for a short time.) Even though my email's defaulted to not send
my name along with the address, I accidentally managed to send them
the address with the real name on it one day a while back. So they
all know it. I trust them. Not only that they aren't going to come
axe me in my sleep, but that they'll keep it private. Despite that
they know my real name, I'm very much Erimess to them. They don't
even think of me in terms of my real name. There's two others who
are/were on there whom I know the real names of, but I just don't
think of them that way.
What's in a name?
Sorry, didn't really mean to jabber on about that so long.
>
>Just a personal choice, and when the axe-wielding maniac comes to the house
>or when the bored hacker mucks up my credit history or whatever then maybe
>I'll wish it had been other.
Maybe. Of course, the axe-wielder doesn't need to know your name
either.
>
>In any case, it's really too late to change. I go way back, and my name is
>plastered all over the internet.
Yep, that's true.
>
>>to be someplace that is so totally public. My brother is worse. He
>>insists that I reveal too much as it is.
>
>Yeah, I know you're female, a CPA and you have a brother who knows more
>about computer stuff than you do, with whom you are in frequent contact
>and/or proximity. You also know more about freaky alternative religion
>type stuff than your average bear.
I don't think that's what he meant by revealing too much. :-) I
haven't been on here that long -- have I really talked about my
brother that much already? I do mention him a lot. (We have a lot in
common, but argue a lot anyway, we both play games, though I can't get
him to touch an Ultima.)
A little correction, BTW. I'm not a CPA. I do accounting and I tutor
accounting and math (not sure I've mentioned that), but I am not
certified. The powers that be get a little testy over little details
like that.
As for the religion, well, hmm, how'd I get like that? Hanging around
Wiccans? Oddly enough, just at a time when I was questioning my own
religion (just your garden-variety non-denominational Christian) is
around the time I met said Wiccans. They weren't trying to convert me
or anything -- they weren't like that -- but I think it just
contributed more to my thinking process, and wondering about all the
different religions of the world, and how can anyone know what's
really right? Their priest and I had several interesting discussions
about religion, neither one of us ever having been much into organized
religion. I don't know what the heck I am now, and I'm pretty much
open to anything that isn't hurting anyone or isn't telling other
people what they have to believe. (Someone needs to look up the word
believe. Believe does not equal brainwashed.)
erimess
<silvan...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote:
>>
>>Worchestershire.
>
>wurstersheer
This only popped in my head cause we were discussing this word
elsewhere the other day. I pronounced it
Worsteshurshurshurshurshurshur.
>
>>It's interesting the number of holidays the Christians stole.
>
>Yup, agreed. Interesting as well that the only Christian holidays I ever
>really cared about turned out to be those which had been subsumed...
>
>>>The ancient Druids were nothing like the modern tree-huggers who use
>>>that name.
>
>True. They were pretty viscious. That's why I don't use their name, even
>though I'm a modern tree-hugger. :)
Don't know diddly about Druids, though I play one on TV, er.. in a
game... er, hmm...
>
>>than your average lot. I'm not at the theatre anymore and I am not
>>friends with any of the people there anymore, but that's just another
>>long story.
>
>Real Wiccans are fun people. I don't much care for the "let's play with
>magic and cast love and propserity spells" type though, and I've only ever
>actually met the latter in RL.
I don't know what "real" Wiccans are as opposed to fake (?) ones. The
ones I knew seemed to be rather a mixed bag. One thought she was
reincarnated and a witch, while someone else thought she was full of
it. Some of them talked of magic, like spells and such, some of them
referred to magic as something we all.. well, how do I describe? Like
the spirit that's within us I guess. Some didn't believe in it at
all. (Well, really, I should qualify that because one person in
particular I think was initiated more because it was a group who
accepted him and he needed something like that. I'm not sure how much
he really believe.)
What I do know is that some of them were the kindest people on earth,
they were extremely open to other religions and had no cares about who
came to their Circles. They didn't care if you participated or not
(though I heard some more heard-core groups wouldn't have stood for
that). And they got really pissed off if you called them devil
worshipers. :-)
>
>>I certainly don't want to get off on a possible unwanted religious
>>discussion (especially since different NG's have different feelings
>>about such discussions and I'm still in new territory), so I'll just
>>say my personal views pretty much come down to: how the heck does
>>anyone really know anyway?
>
>No farkin' clue, that's how... It goes round and round forever, but in the
>end, nobody knows.
Yep.
>
>That's why I'm a non-denominational general-purpose type Pagan... Not a
>Wiccan, not a Druid, not an anything, just some weirdo who loves trees,
>talks to Mother Nature, and has never taken much solace from the empty
>promises of the mainstream religions...
I'm not a Pagan, but I do have to agree with you there.
Michael McIntyre
<paul....@remove.everything.except.virgin.and.net> wrote:
><WebTV>Hey, me too</WebTV>. There are (were) 5 or 6 Wiccans where I live,
>but I've been slowly converting them either to think like me or into
>atheists. It's fun :D Out of the six, I now have one Wiccan left, one who
>I have brought round to my way of thinking, one who is so completely mad
>that I have absolutely no clue, and three atheists.
>
>It's not as fun as converting Christians to atheists though.
>
>Mwahahahahahaha
Well, I'm still basically an atheist, sort of... Well... I'm a Naturalist
in the sense that I don't believe anything is supernatural.
God/Jesus/Allah/Buford Lee Horowitz all could exist in my world view, but
there's a rational explanation for everything... The purpose of science is
to determine how/why stuff works.
Having said that, there's stuff that's real that science doesn't touch.
Mom played around with enough Asian weirdness back when I was in high
school to convince me of that. What IS chi/qi? I have no clue, but it's
real enough. I've felt it myself. Tai Chi and Yoga people feel it all the
time (the Indians call it something else, but it's the same stuff...) The
best metaphor I can come up with is that "force" from Star Wars. I like
calling it the dragon's breath in the sense that Merlin from Excalibur (the
movie) meant it, just because I like relating to the phenomenon through
that framework.
I tried being a Wiccan, but I just can't do it. It's too silly. If you
can't speak the words out loud without feeling like a fool, then do you
REALLY want to practice that religion? Nah. Plus all the money spent for
special ritualistic garb and tools and stuff... Plus most Wiccans (around
here anyway, and in most places also, based on what's around on the web)
are females and feminists and into the whole woman power thing. I'm not
female, and I just can't get excited about feminist issues. I'm not
anti-feminist, just feminist-neutral.
So, nah, not a Wiccan. I'm just a Pagan-esque weirdo... No special garb,
no fancy rituals... I do deify Mother Nature somewhat, and pray (read beg
for favors) occasionally, but do I REALLY believe that Gaia is a deity?
*shrugs* Do I believe that prayer/magic as directed human thought has some
strange ability to affect the outcome of events? Yes, indeed I do. I've
seen it happen.
True, it could be coincidence, but what if it isn't? I believe that when
people pray to whatever deities or cast spells or whatever and magical
stuff seems to happen, that it's really some function of directed thought
and/or perhaps manipulation of the "force" or whatever. For example when
my neighbor got together with all her Methodist friends and then out of the
clear blue sky my uncle's prostate cancer went away. Other stuff like that
has happened. Pretty freaky. They have some powerful medicine, those
Methodists, but do I believe that his cancer went away because of direct
intervention from Jesus Christ, the son of IHWH, the one true deity? Not
really. Do I believe it was just totally coincidental that his inoperable,
terminal cancer suddenly disappeared right after the prayer circle thing?
No, I don't think it was a coincidence, though I can't prove otherwise.
My point is that there's stuff out there that's real, but we have no clue
how it works. Religions can provide useful metaphors for relating to the
weird. As such, I'm a half-assed mostly pragmatic Pagan, if only because
most atheists I know are are so hardcore
deny-everything-that-science-hasn't-yet-explained, and I've seen enough
weird stuff that I can't just write it all off.
So I go into the woods with my walking stick and stand in a pentagon
(balance beam thing part of a ropes and initiatives course) built where a
tree once stood, where there's a hole in the canopy, and I have one-sided
converstations with my metaphorical deity while surrounded by oak trees and
sky. Harmless enough.
Now raising children... THAT'S the tricky bit. Even though I have done
nothing to Christianize my kids, it's happening to them anyway. Something
mildly serious happened the other day and Jonathan said something like "My
Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven!" Well, he sure didn't learn THAT from any of
us.
So what do I do? Tell him I think Christianity is hogwash, or let him grow
up like everyone else in this town and not be a freak like I was?
Why do I think Christianity is hogwash? Well... All the babble above
generally leads to the conclusion that I think pretty much all religions
can work. They provide rules for living and such, give people hope and so
on. Not bad, even if most of it is nonsense. All of them relate in some
way to the weird, and all of them have some of the details right. One is
about as good as another for my purposes. So why not Christianity? Why
not be like everyone else and have a nice conformist life?
Trees. Jesus didn't give a rat's ass about trees, or anything else
relating to the environment. Christianity is a very humanistic religion.
Page after page of rules for how to live with other people, but YHWH gives
man dominion over the earth. Clubbing baby seals to make fur coats is not
a sin. Destroying a million acres of rainforest, and in so doing mucking
up the global climate, in order to grow a few season's worth of crops is
not a sin. We could kill every animal and every plant on the planet
without sinning, according to YHWH.
I recognize that we are as natural as anything else, and that Nature is
neutral in all things. Nature doesn't care whether we whack down forests
in order to build strip malls anymore than she cares when termites build
mounds out of dirt in the desert. However, it isn't RIGHT dammit. Purely
my opinion, and there's no hard and fast reason why we shouldn't do it,
other than taking the long view and looking at self-preservation, but not
everything has to be rational. I love trees. I do work with wood, and I
recognize that civilization is built upon the backs of billions of dead
trees, but I don't feel really good about it. I give trees an artificially
high place in the scheme of things just because I like them. I like
forests. I feel at peace in such places in a way I never do in places
wrought from the earth by the hand of man.
I'm a literal tree-hugger. I don't really care that much about animal
rights and all the other issues environmental whackos like to rant about.
I'm not a vegetarian. I'm just a weirdo who loves trees for no logical
reason, and there you have it...
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>>(ie someone from Scotland)
>
>Scotland rules, och aye! :)
Haven't you guys been talking about liberating my ancestral home, or is
that about as likely to happen as the separation of Quebec? :)
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>I'm afraid a Scot would not be thrilled at being called British. They
Well, kinda like how we Southerners are still pissed off about the war.
Like it or not, they ARE British. That's what it says on their passports
anyway, right?
Michael McIntyre
>(aside from the towns) was kinda tree covered, and they used to meet in
>secret in the forest.
>
>Think of them as prototype Klansmen - in some areas they wielded a lot
>of power and used fear and 'magyc' and torching people as a means of
>keeping it. They were Not Nice - certainly a far cry from the wandering
>bards and healers people want to think of them as.
True enough... From what I've been able to gather of true historical
accounts, they were more like those vivacious, bear-clad people from the
movie 13th Warrior than hippy dippy tree-huggers. That's why I don't use
the name. I'm of a druidic bent in the modern interpretation of the word,
but modern druids have little or nothing in common with the original,
bloodthirsty variety.
>*nods* There is with many religious/philosophic ideas. Judaism and
>Taoism have a lot in common on basic precepts.
Taoism is another good one... I was getting into Taoism until the bit
about abstaining from sex and masturbating in such a way as to cause
retrograde ejaculations... I LIKE sex... :)
>And you could well argue that evolution is taught as fact when it isn't
>conclusively proven, but it has a lot more going for it than Adam and
>Eve....
There's always creationary evolution... You can have it both ways... :)
Still, you're right. Even if we WERE created, the biblical genesis story
has obviously gotten some of the details wrong. For example, males and
females of the species have the same number of ribs...
I used to be a pure big-banger, but now I'm not so sure. I'm more in the
"we might be a science experiments to a really powerful but entirely
natural being" category now.
The bottom line though is that the answer to the creation question really
changes nothing. If God created the heaven and earth in seven days and all
that, then what was here before, and where did God come from?
If the universe just came into being for no particular reason, then what
was here before, and where did all that stuff come from?
You can only go so far before you hit a brick wall, and in the end the
answer doesn't really matter. Were we to get beyond this question, there
would be other brick walls. I'm not convinced the human mind is capable of
understanding all these answers, even if they were presented plainly before
us.
What IS nothing? Space is not nothing. What is less than space?
What's outside the universe? What's outside that? Where does it all end?
Eventually you always hit an infinity somewhere, and we just can't REALLY
grasp that concept.
But anyway, it makes for a good story. Especially in Latin.
Dixitque fiat lux, et facta est lux.
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>In article <43qjltsvgrcs71vjp...@4ax.com>, silvan-
>pa...@ultima-dragons.org says...
>
>> It's not Celtic. It's Irish/Gaelic, just like Mac an-t-Saoir, so it was
>> clever of you to recognize it as such. :)
>
>Gaelic is a Celtic language.
Right, right... I was thinking there was some universal Celtic language
from which Gaelic/Bretonic/Welsh/Manx etc. evolved. That was my line of
thinking anyway. Proto-Celtic or whatever. That's why I put it the way I
did. She meant Celtic as a language, not as a family, and what I meant
would more clearly have read something like "It's not from a language
called Celtic, but rather from Irish/Gaelic (which are in the Celtic family
of languages)...."
>Ahem - Irish is Gaelic, as is Scottish - somewhat different forms of
They're perhaps a bit more similar than Spanish and Portuguese, but
everything I've ever read on the subject divides them into two distinct
languages.
For example, the Focal an Lae site (Word of the day in _Irish_ emphasis is
mine) clearly lists separate resources for learning Irish and for learning
Scottish Gaelic.
Another example, this one from a university site in Edinburgh says:
"Gaelic (or Scottish Gaelic as it is sometimes known outside Scotland) has
similarities to the other Celtic languages, and is particulary close to
Irish (or Irish Gaelic) to the extent that a mutual understanding is
possible. Another variant of Gaelic is spoken in the Isle of Man (a small
tax haven between England and Ireland) called Manx Gaelic. "
Furthermore, I used to have an Irish co-worker who clearly refered to her
own native tongue as "Irish," and to the one spoken across the way as
"Gaelic."
My only point being that, based on my reading, I have just cause for making
a distinction between the two, similar though they may be. The Mac
an-t-Saoir spelling is, AFAIK common to both of them, though the only
people I've ever known to use it were all Irish.
Michael McIntyre
And I wasted all that time in self-defence... (so spelled as a bit of an
olive branch... :)
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>> I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
>-clip-
>
>Chinese do, at least, so Mr Zhuang would be more appropriate. But Destrius
>will do fine in all cases. :P
Well, occidental-centric as I am, I'll stick with Destrius since that's OK
with you. I have enough trouble just trying to pronounce French words...
Michael McIntyre
wrote:
>...and it was written on the heavens that on Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:35:43 -0500,
> the entity named Lumina Dragon (kewh...@hotmail.com)
> inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:
>
>-clip-
>>> I know Arabs do that... I'll admit I'm largely ignorant of things Asian.
>>
>> Don't worry, I'll bet that Asians are largely ignorant of things about
>> you, too.
>-clip-
>
>Well, we all know from Hollywood that Americans speak with funny accents,
>like to blow up everything they can see, have either big breasts or hairy
>chests, and have sex all the time.
*nods*
We try anyway...
Actually, you're really not kidding about the big breasts thing. We're
taking it to such an extreme now that even everyday, average women are
coming home with boob jobs. "Look honey, I sold my car and bought new tits
that always point at my feet, even when I stand on my head."
Michael McIntyre
>Well, good, I'm glad I didn't start off onto a bad subject area.
>Sometimes people can start getting a bit nasty about such a subject.
>I think the only time I ever got sort of nasty is when someone
>wouldn't listen to why their beliefs didn't work for me.
It can get touchy, yes. You always run into some zealot who never listens
to a thing you have to say, and always follows your every post with some
blather about Jaaaaaayzus.
FWIW I've not been around long enough to be an old-timer here, but I've
been around the usenet block a few times. This is a good group here. You
shouldn't have any trouble, unless I miss my mark.
>>The way I'll _know_ is when a potential deity (or a pantheon thereof)
>>applies for the position--and is accepted. ^_^
>
>^_^ Boy, I had to think real hard to do that kind of smiley, but it's
>cute.
I like this one... o_O
Paulon
addresses the awaiting newsgroup...
Daermonestroer. Or Daer for short.
Don't get between him and anyone arguing in favour of the idea that there
is a god of any sort. You'll be trampled in the general mayhem. ;-)
By the time he and Dracos gave up on the last time the subject came up, I'd
given up on understanding anything besides the fact that they disagreed
about the existance of a deity.
--
Paulon Dragon d++ e- N T+ Om U1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC+ uF uG uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nI nPT nS+ nT+ y?
The Other Codex http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~paulryan/Ultima/
Danger Will Robinson! One of your nodes is about to fall off!
Ultima VII endgame.exe file
Negate the Spell to Wish me Well...